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Nate, sorry for raiding your comment section, but now that I know we met IRL, it seems necessary. Why doesn't Dr. Vervake talk about any other senses? Like the way a smell can take you back to your grandmother's house? His approach seems very limited to the mind.

Have any of you read this amazing poem by Derek Walcot? Your conversation sounds very much like this. Love After Love The time will come when, with elation you will greet yourself arriving at your own door, in your own mirror and each will smile at the other's welcome, and say, sit here. Eat. You will love again the stranger who was your self. Give wine. Give bread. Give back your heart to itself, to the stranger who has loved you all your life, whom you ignored for another, who knows you by heart. Take down the love letters from the bookshelf, the photographs, the desperate notes, peel your own image from the mirror. Sit. Feast on your life.

"Quantitative infinity doesn't exist" Exactly. Number is always discrete, by definitional necessity.

Just caught a small portion of this livestream this morning, but I did have one thought. Islam is conversionist and practices Sola Scriptura with their own text, just as Christianity does. I think this is what separates both from Judaism. Although Islam is “monotheistic”, I would argue that Christianity is too, that is all it shares with Judaism, apart from genealogy. All that to say, if we can criticize Christianity for its conversionist and Sola Scriptura take on things, we must also be free to criticize Islam for the same things. I’m not sure how that can be done without any Muslim participation here, I personally would be loathe to criticize it from the outside. But maybe there are Muslims out there who feel the same way about these things as many Christians do. Judaism suffered under Christianity and Islam for these reasons.

Could’ve been an insightful chat between friends but the dude on the rights smugness really destroyed the talk.

How do you guys find each other? I want in😂

Starts with D&D and goes deep into territory that 'the church' should really be discussing if our faith is going to achieve anything of note in this world!

18:02 property concept of freedom. This is flowing through tlc and my thinking. It’s part of the authentic/sincere discussion.

Hope comes from a deeper place than Faith, both leading towards Love. ❤️ I needed to hear that. A lot of everything else flew over my head... But this was gold 🏆

Are there any book clubs/groups in TLC focusing on George MacDonald? I've dedicated this year to only reading him, and would love some people to talk about it with. I've heard Shari and Luke draw from his work recently.

47:00 unity/intimacy 🎶”Bring me a higher love..” They is always an implicit unity behind any distinction.

Made in God's image is, in some ways, mean we contain the universe. Naming things to create harmony(good order). "...we teach kids language to name things as nouns. There are no nouns, right? Call it "tree"...billions of biochemical interactions and biological interactions and physical interactions that give rise to that thing. It's a process, right? You are a process. All the things that you think of as nouns [seem this way] because you're not observing very well." -D Schmachtenberger

Hope. Yup. Edit: Faith. Yup. We can’t talk about the anachronism of either.

Re: True Freedom In the words of Wendell Berry, “So, friends, every day do something that won’t compute. Love the Lord. Love the world. Work for nothing. Take all that you have and be poor. Love someone who does not deserve it. Practice Resurrection.”

11:48 Don't tell me how to parent!

Yes, more RPG talk is always welcome!

Despite my screw up... I really loved this conversation... y'all have a lot more to continue with

I agree, Nate. I do not believe God created out of nothing per se. I think he created from his imagination the way an author does a novel

Never played Dungeons & Dragons but I've read about 50 books from that realm and I found it positively enchanting

My faith isn't absence or some vain hope, it is things seen and hope realized. Faith must be justified.

We were playing pre-D&D in college on the school computer, via teletype text, against the algo.

My actions are evidence of faith, full stop. What I do shows you what I trust, have faith in, believe to be true. Not propositionally but embodied. Every action aims at an outcome, and that outcome is that which is hoped for. In any action resources are put at risk, in faith aimed at a hope. Sacrificed in faith toward a hope. That's action as a aimed or targeted or purposeful being. Faith -> Love(Charity/Sacrifice) -> Hope. This is the fundamental ground of human action, activity.

1:19:50 I wonder how many people will pick up what is really being said here. “Ye are gods.” Acts 13:47 “For so the Lord has commanded us: I have sent you as a light to the Gentiles, that you should be for salvation to the ends of the Earth.” Who is salvation?

1:19:00 Yes yes yes Shari this is why I keep pushing to be more open and sympathetic (empathetic?) to the occult and Wiccan practices

1:11:00 Check out the sermon on the Mount in Matthew and in Luke Be perfect as your father in heaven is perfect. Be merciful as your father in heaven is merciful. It’s about the mercy/atonement seat, upon which the judge of all the Earth sits, it was between the cherubim. Forgiveness makes perfect. Perfection is on this side of eternity. We can attain to it. It is at our fingertips. The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

excellent....( and your throw for wisdom is a 13. )

47:04 intimacy requires vulnerability of the elements in the relational. Meaning, the elements are open to being changed by the other.

32:00 “the distinguishable unity” the unity is in the perceiver, the person, who is naming. The unity is through him who names

30:45 I think before the name, it isn’t in relationality to the person. So with consciousness being centric, then yes, it does not yet exist

36:00 This is so good. “It’s like the silent state of awareness.” Going back to that womb, the essence of potential, where everything waits silently, patiently, for you with joy.

31:20 “Out beyond ideas of right and wrong is a field. Will I meet you there? - Holy to the Lord on the bells of horses.” - MeWithoutYou, Julia

28:45 🔥

30:18 - when you name something it becomes part of the story

🍿

The 2020 version was after my time :p

Oh, nice! Listening now.

Still wrestling with this notion of home being the place of freedom to go in & out. How this relates to integrity, vulnerability & the place of belonging. “To know as you are fully known” type stuff.

I don’t know how to say it better. When God remained quiet & calm when I wanted a hyperbolic intrusion, my experience of reality thenceforth opened. Gods absence suggested I wasn’t attentive or patient enough to recognize what was already happening all around me. The looking is rote in modernity, how does one expect to see?

This is so good. Re-watching what I missed from the livestream this morn.

lots of great stuff on this stream, here's my thoughts on the various subjects as I remember them being discussed - when husbands struggle with 🌽, the wives often are hurt because they are comparing their bodies to those of the women on screen and feel they can't measure up physically, but that's almost never where the appeal lies. It's the complete absence of rejection and judgement that makes it appealing to men, so Shari is right in saying that wives are making things far worse by slandering their husbands. Not that it's an excuse; men need to get serious about really walking away from that stuff because their $ and attention fuels the whole system of abuse. When the demand dries up, the supply will dwindle; there's always going to be some appetite for the illicit but we are drowning in it right not. second point, I think there has been a lot of harm done by the "traditional' teachings and emphasis on marriage and s-x in the church, and the downplaying of the eschatological significance of the physical union of man and wife. Pageau for example glosses over so much symbolism that the "pagans" would have spotted immediately in the text because of his acceptance of the traditional views. I really recommend the book "beautiful union" by Josh Butler, its the one that caused a bunch of controversy, but he handles all the hot button issues of our day by pointing to the iconic and symbolic significance of married s-x in the Bible (including the circumcision of the "fractal man" and his entrance through the "torn veil" of the woman's "fractal temple" 3rd I think there is much to say about the redemption of the women of ill repute; Christ "marries" the woman at the well, and the woman annointing his feet with perfume. My take is that King Solomon understood the role of the messiah as the bridegroom of the nations; his writings in proverbs and SOS show that he understood the ideal of monogamy, and would have been content with his one love, yet he played a symbolic role, although imperfectly, in taking so many wives. The common assumption about his foreign wives "leading him astray" is that it was due to the urges of his libido, but he could satiate those at anytime; his willingness to sacrifice with them was an act of spiritual idolatry for his LOVE of the wives; he desired to redeem them and bring them into the proper form of worship, but this was something only Christ could accomplish. Lastly, I think we have to take into account that women outside the church have been hearing that s-x is meaningless for the last 70 years, and so we need far more grace for such women when they come to Christ; we can't clobber them with our traditional understanding of the sacredness of s-x. The poor response to the recent conversion of the OF girl Nala is prime example of this.

For a certain reason I don't want to make this comment while displaying my name. (I've interacted with you guys multiple times) Some time ago I found a taoist book on sex. It tells that males can train (they say "cultivate") to separate orgasm from ejaculation (Multiorgasmic Men by Mantak Chia) Long story short: Males can have multiple orgasms if they train for it. (They even say that both males and females can have full body orgasms that last minutes, but I cannot confirm this part sofar.) I don't know what to make of it. (If I read them right orgasms are limited by the body. You just get stronger and stronger muscle cramps at some point, so the orgasmic potential is not reachable.) I don't know what the effect is once I have sex with my future spouse. And I mainly have the technical aspects in mind, but I see that there must be something mystical to it. Concerning future spouse: My girlfriend broke up with me some time ago.(I never had sex with her. She is from another culture and no Christian.) I can't convince myself to not like her. I'm dating another girl now but I hate myself because I do not even remotely have the same attitude/love/feeling for her that I had towards the first one and I think I should. I kinda have the feeling that from now on anyone is just a secondary option. I don't care if my future spouse loves me, i just care about my ex girlfriend. I don't know how that relates to sex if the spouse is someone you don't love. Maybe that issue resolves itself over time. Maybe good Christians shouldn't write such lines. Or let their curiosity run into trying out such things. Confession over

I enjoy your chats so much! I have been listening to the seies on the Imagination by George Macdonald and my mind is blown- Shari you do such a great job explaining things that are hard to understand. Thankyou for sharing these!

Side tangent here…Jed, is the Buddhist meditation practice of emptying your mind beneficial to fasting? Shari was mentioning in another stream how when you fast, you notice all your other vices surface (I’m paraphrasing). I have noticed this and I think it’s often because my mind is looking for something else to attend to. But would this meditation practice prepare the mind to be “weaned”?

51:55 I will say it again. God is omniscient because he loves, and omnipotent because he forgives. In that same way, we can’t be like him.

My Grail Country tantra would be big enough to include Babylonian Ishtar Temple courtesans. Because of sanctification.

Does the Salt Boy represent incarnation? That isn't Christian, it is Buddhist. My marriage wasn't an imperfect annihilation of our individuality. We achieved a more entwined and mature individuality. Our mutual sacrifice wasn't cost free or smooth.

Familiarity breeds contempt? I didn't start with much idealization and worked down from there ;-) But I know her (good) character better, of course, because I barely knew her at first.

Difference between lust vs. Love i woud say- Love is what occurs when the projection of the image collapses into the reality of the person- and the relationality blossoms. Love is there only insofar as it is not a projection

Per Shari ... images = danger of objectification. With people, the real person is on the inside. Shari as usual has the purest expression ... sheep-wise.

TGrog, thank you. This was incredibly enlightening. I look forward to hearing more from you.