The New Odyssey - with Dr. Martin Shaw
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ย. 2023
- Dr. Martin Shaw will be a speaker at the Symbolic World Summit next year in Tarpon Springs, Florida. In this conversation we discuss pagan stories, including The Odyssey and The Iliad, our current moment in the West, the return of paganism and a desire for Kleos (imperishable glory) in modern life. We also talk about how much paganism differs from Christianity, wrestling with Scripture as a mythographer, and Martin’s journey to Orthodox Christianity.
Dr Martin Shaw is a writer, storyteller, and mythologist. Award-winning author of seventeen books, his most recent, Bardskull, was Guardian Book of the Day and described by the Sunday Times as “rich and transgressive.” He is a wilderness rites of passage guide and spent four years living in a tent. Shaw founded the Oral Tradition and Living Myth courses at Stanford University and is described by the Irish Times as an “interloper from the medieval.” An Eastern Orthodox Christian, over the last twenty-five years Shaw has introduced thousands of people to myth and how it speaks to our age. He is widely published: Orion, The Sun, Mississippi Review, Poetry International and many others.
Dr. Martin Shaw’s website: drmartinshaw.com/
Substack: martinshaw.substack.com/
Join me and Dr. Martin Shaw and others at the Symbolic World Summit in Tarpon Springs, Florida.
Date: Feb 29-Mar 2, 2024
Tickets start at $399: thesymbolicworld.com/summit
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Join me, Dr. Martin Shaw, and others at the Symbolic World Summit in Tarpon Springs, Florida. Date: Feb 29-Mar 2, 2024, Tickets start at $399: thesymbolicworld.com/summit
I wasn't going to go, and then you got Martin, you sly devil. Now I just sent my priest a text to see if he wants to go too, he's going to say yes almost certainly.
@@grailcountryyou have to let me know if you decide to go! I may have to bite the bullet!
Oh goodness, I’ll have to start putting pennies in the piggy bank this very day. UK to Florida, here I come (God willing, of course!) ❤
@@shari6063 I just bought VIP tickets for myself and my priest.
@@grailcountry Sweet, we’ll see you there Nate. It would be awesome to meet @shari6063 too!
A Martin Shaw, Jonathan Pageau, Jordan Peterson reading of the Odyssey is something I deeply desire
I wonder Dr Shaw’s opinion of Peterson’s global heating denial.
Going from where I was, searching for what was true & becoming Orthodox was very much like an Odyssey for me. I did feel lost & becoming Orthodox over the years has been like coming home.
I had the same exact experience. When I think about the way things were before my chrismation it’s frankly baffling to me that there was ever a time in my life where I wasn’t orthodox
same, it was like getting on a ship at port and everyone on the dock thinking I'm crazy and trying to get me to stay. Impossible, the real adventure that I'd always wanted has begun.
@@FourthExile @hannibalmcl8994 can i ask ye to elaborate more on this - what do you mean by orthodox? what does it mean to you know, why does it make so much sense for where you are - apologies if this is a question you'd rather not answer in this space - I ask because of my own curiosity and searching journey
I had a transcendent experience of nostalgia when I first stepped into an Orthodox church. I explain it to people as an overwhelming feeling of being home, like arriving back to my childhood home... and then some. Been Orthodox now for 6 years after decades of secularism, nihilism, and despair, glory to God!
What a fun ending. Listening on my phone will taking lunch at my crummy retail meatcutting job. Wish I could attend the conference, perhaps you'll have one in the northeast one day. I remember once in the midst of my sorrow, brought about because of my materialistic world view, praying to God that I no longer believed in that he would return to me like he was when I was a kid. And the agony of thinking that was impossible, not knowing how to begin to believe again. So I began praying for wisdom. At some point along the journey back to him I found your channel. It has been the single most important thing for my spiritual revival and I am very grateful. I still have a lot to work on, as we all do. But thanks for giving me the boost I needed to see the world clearly again. Love you brother.
Take heart @cowmanpigman, I'm also working class and cannot afford to visit the fancy conferences. However it is in our world of job insecurity and struggle that these ideas of myth and spirit are tested.
“Fake news from our own Psyche”. 🤩
Dude i cannot believe it's in Florida of all places. I thought I'd never be able to go but then i saw it's just two hours away, that's amazing
So lucky for you👍
I'll say it endlessly. Martin Shaw is the best of us. Epa baba!
My favorite part of The Odyssey, and I think the most intuitive aspect, is how it starts near the end and then Odysseus tells the story of everything that happened after Troy and up to him arriving in the royal court to the king and queen, sparked by a song no less. And only after him going through the whole story and coming to terms with it in his own heart is he granted safe passage home. If you refuse to deal with your traumas you can’t return home to set everything right because you won’t be in the proper mode of being to do so, and even if you get close there will be setbacks unless you deal with your past and your decisions. You’ll forever be a man of pain and sorrow, as he was, until he admitted everything he’d done and went home in the guise of a humble beggar, only then could he claim his kingdom and family and take his rightful place again. The Odyssey is such an amazing work of literature, by far my favorite myth and story ever as The Gospel is it’s own category to me.
Fr. Michael Oleksa, another Storyteller of Alaskan Native stories and an Orthodox priest. I would love to see him together with Jonathan and Martin Shaw, et al
On Alaskan Native Culture and Stories th-cam.com/video/Ivp5B1ky9Gg/w-d-xo.html
The Alaskan Native Spiritual Legacy - Rev Dr. Michael James Oleksa
th-cam.com/video/hlVUP9JB_DI/w-d-xo.html
What was the Native Alaskan Experience of God Before Christianity?th-cam.com/video/5bazvXFkDjQ/w-d-xo.html
When Odysseus comes back to Ithica, it's only his Dog, Argos, that recognizes him... I named my dog Argos after that story.
"We've substituted religious shelter with spiritual comfort."
"Gods be careful you have become decorations in their poems".
I know that a lot of people are cheap, but there are a lot of people who honestly can't afford to go to the summit and maybe can't even travel at all for whatever reason. This is preamble to requesting (begging 😊) that you make the talks available on your channel at some point after the event. I really appreciated being able to see the talks from Chino and hope for the same from Florida.
Yes. Choosing the story which orientates us towards The Good, The Truth and The Beautiful is the answer. Modern myths aren't good enough. They haven't been worked on enough.
It's the ancient tales which hold the key.
Horizontal Christianity (that thing he did with his arms was powerful) that's so much better than cultural Christianity as a label. This reminds me of Meditations On the Tarot Letter VI. I might take the ball and run with this. I have conversation with Jordan Daniel Wood and Sam coming up on the 13th, may have to dig into this a bit.
Great video. I've been wondering how Mr. Pageau's ideas are livable and I think this conversation has given me a piece to that puzzle.
brilliant analogy of a story as a tuning fork.
There's a wonderful feeling of awe once I seek out similarities and not differences. I find Harmony in connectedness, thank you!
Absolutely true about not being hungry post eucharist!!!
Delightful. 2 quick points: 1) in my group substack, PostModernConservative, I have written five essays over the last year on the Odyssey, a couple of which draw upon the great commentator Eva Brann, of St. John's College. 2) Towards the end, there is a moment where Martin is struggling a bit to talk about the idea of the UK as a "Christian nation." I would heartily recommend to him on this topic, the very rational and Christian thinking of the French politcal philosopher Pierre Manent, who recommends, in his fine little book Beyond Radical Secularism, our speaking of "nations of the Christian mark" when we speak of the European nations. Excellent thoughts there also on the future place of Islam in these nations. Carl Eric Scott
Yes me too! Immediately after Eucharist I am no longer hungry. And I can go for most of the day, sometimes the whole day and not think about food at all.
Yes! Hrolf's Saga Kraki! We mentioned it several times in the Beowulf class. Very important reading. I can't wait to see Shaw retell it.
I love both of you!! And followed both before I knew you were Christian, just as I was exploring a reversion to my childhood faith but looking out from Rome to the East! X
this was way too amazing, my mind is always blown, heart full and senses tingling when I listen to you two. I SO wish I could come to the summit!
Excellent. Two of my favourite artists and storytellers in one room
Wonderful. Martin Shaw, you bring the magic. ✨
One of my favorite videos! I loved hearing these two together again. Yes please we need a round table on the Odyssey with Pageau, Shaw, Peterson, and more!
I honestly don't even know for one minute how I would get by in this world with the likes of these two gentlemen. Thank you for all your thoughts ideas ponderings and faith. 🙏💕
The way Dr Martin explains really resonates with me ..thank you much for this
For anyone interested in exploring the cosmological dimension of the Odyssey, I'd recommend Rose Hammond's "Islands in the Sky: The Four-dimensional Journey of Odysseus through Space and Time". Along similar lines (although not specific to Homer) is Jean Richer's "The Sacred Geography of the Ancient Greeks."
For anyone interested in how Homeric episodes map onto New Testament accounts, the work of Dennis R. MacDonald is indispensable.
47:00 is resonating super intensely. What a wild time to be alive. Praise Be.
This was beautiful.
This was amazing! I took so many notes. Thank you guys!
30 Whoa! Story as tuning fork!!!
This video, especially the ending, resonates so deeply with me. Thank you!
Can't recommend highly enough the movie adapting the Odyssey named "Nostos - Il Ritorno", one of the most unique visual poems ever created in my opinion.
It is a psychologized version of the story that takes liberties, and is very slow, but fans of this channel will surely love it (and it's in full on TH-cam!). Just know that you're not supposed to understand the dialogue.
Awesome conversation!
Returning home to the heart is absolutely what we need to do now, possibly now more than ever. Covid times showed me that, and not to minimize any suffering or even death that people experienced as a result, covid times sent everyone home and allowed us to face our home space and our closest relationships. For me it was wonderful, but it really showed how people have drifted away from their own Inner circle, in a way, in that many people had a lot of trouble just being at home and by themselves and quiet with their own thoughts. This is a rich territory to explore.
My thoughts exactly. The workplace I left 3 months before lockdown was mostly filled with young people. They took holidays to Africa, Cambodia, Thailand, Vietnam, Latin America and also New York, Beiging and Sidney Australia. I knew their wages could barely afford these destinations. I learned that they often didn't go out at the weekend. They were also concerned about climate change to the point they didn't have anything to say about it.
Witnessing these young people wanting to be anywhere other than where they were gave me an anxious sense that something would happen to keep everyone where they are. I was so sure of it that I told some of my friends. Yes your right lockdown and the Odyssey does go together.
It is nice to see how much enjoyment that conversation brought both of you.
Amazing. Definitely one I'll be relistening to. What an exciting time to be alive. God bless.
I am currently building a textile arts business around this ethos. Months ago - I named it Hiraeth. This made me cry. Thank you for all you do 🥲
Martin's statement about all truth being God's truth and being on a drip feed via paganism. That's probably difficult to hear, but I think we have to start at the beginning of the traditions and trace the way up to now in order to come back to the living tradition again.
Martin Shaw's pronunciation of Jesus is very helpful. It lets me drop so much of the accumulated baggage that gets in the way. Also his hand motions for the cross were perfect.
Lion’s Honey!
I’ll be thinking on that for a long time
Fantastic conversation! I need to figure out how to get to this summit in February...
I feel like you guys are talking directly to me sometimes lol thanks for the continued motivation!
Me too!
What Martin Shaw said about having fasted since Vespers the night before and then being satisfied by the Holy Eucharist is something I have also experienced and thought about as being so fascinating.❤
beautiful podcast
Good evening Jonathan and Martin
Wee bits of all of this.
For sure.
💜
Martin Shaw
I really like how the lighting flickers when Martin is moving around. It adds dynamism to his already interesting way of speaking.
Thanks
Dear Jonathan, will there be a possibility to take part of the Summit via (paid) streaming? Because not everyone will be able to fly to the states :-( Best wishes and greeetings from Germany! + Stephanie
'Myth and story is the best way to talk about anything'.
very easy quick no hesitation 'like'
My daughters still love to shout "Burning! Fiery! Furnace!"
"We make still by the law in which we're made." I'm getting ready to do a declamation/performance of Tolkien's "Mythopoeia" in a couple of months, and this is very inspiring and helpful.
All truth may be encompassed in one great whole.
holy moly.. ole polytropos back at it again
i would def watch a round table reading of the odyssey
Is there a way to participate in the summit, besides being there in person?
Wish I knew this when I was 20 - suffering from anxiety no shrink could help me with....Stories just ,right be the antidote - thank you Martin so much for this....I'm going to continue excavating this idea and try avenues - character driven plot - the story I could be art of is plot driven....any thoughtS?
This is cool
💜
Martin Shaw is a pleasure to listen to
Pageau casually pulled off the not telling anyone about being healed by Christ like planting a seed that explodes into a huge tree so not telling anyone makes you the loudest.
That used to be a huge move in 2018. Now it’s just an unnoticed part of a conversation. He noticed. I saw it. It’s crazy how what used to be these infinitely deep thoughts become just words in a greater book that you learn to read, even though your mind is only the size of a single letter, some how able to read the book, becoming essentially the book but not the book.
Check out First Nations Version: An Indigenous Translation of the New Testament. Earthy and wild.
Symbolism of 100 Years of Solitude??
"If you want your children to be intelligent, read them fairytales. If you want them to be more intelligent, read them more fairytales." -Albert Einstein
The mistress getting cut is very similar to the story of Sati who is wife of Shiva who gave up her life in a scared fire. Shiva was distraught at the loss of his love and he was roaming around with the dead corpse and the Gods had to cut it up. Her body parts fell and these places are now worshipped as energy centres.
The church needs to be Camelot again. -Martin Shaw
Bags of sea water, leaking, with feelings, searching for meaning.
Martin gives me robin williams vibes. A kind of old-school, child-ish wonder and joy
My goodness.
🔻
39:39
🔺
Inside & outside
to be in contact with That…
for it to be too much;
That feels appropriate
😊
A few years back it occurred to me that every story everywhere whispers "Jesus"
Does Jonathan realise the powers and principalities behind Arc?
The nose getting bitten also is similar to the story of the sister of Ravan whose nose got cut off.
There are many short stories (parables) that Christ tells us. He calls it the 'Word of the Kingdom'
If we focus on these parables they will open up and grow into something big. Just have to love Christ, that's all : )
Where is Jonathan doing the reading of Beowulf? Not seeing it in the feed.
can you explain eucharist memory
Is there any recommendation on how to get started with oral storytelling? I’ve thought for a long time writing is somehow a perversion of language. I’m interested in putting together something like telling tales around a camp fire
The Science of Storytelling, by Will Stor
The Art and Craft of Storytelling by Nancy Lamb
Healing Storytelling by Nancy Mellon
The Storytelling Animal
Letters from a SelfMade Merchant to His Son by GH Lorimer
Talk Like TED by Carmine Gallo
Talk to a librarian to find the best books or videos for this topic.
Question: How do you spell “claos…glaos”? Is this an actual word, or an idea made into a word by Dr. Shaw. Excellent discussion!
It must be a real Greek word.
Kleos
Thanks….want to research that word.
It is the human way
Can anyone recommend a translation of The Odyssey for me?
Robert Fagles
Martin Shaw looks like Robin Williams
The dismembered concubine is an image of the cross or the bronze serpent. It is an illustration of horrific consequence which inspires repentance. The narrative drives to this place where Israel is worse than Sodom. at least in Sodom the terrible act was stopped. Judges is an epic tragedy, so we learn deepest, not from the heroes but from the moments that make us sigh in sadness.
Where can someone access Dr. Shaw's recitations of these stories? I did a search on youtube and there isn't anything. It would be great if he had a channel.
Maybe it’s good if there are things you have to leave the house to see.
Iliad
why does the beowulf course have an image of 15th century italian armor? beowulf is from like 6th century scandinavia. completely different.
I don’t think Carl Jung would agree with the idea that ‘nostos’ or yearning is merely anima possession. Not at all
I don't see the corollation between Samson and Christ in the account of the honey and jawbone story. Samson broke his Nazerite vows in many ways one of which was eating unclean things, which eating honey from a dead animal would be. Many other transgressions also.....I don't really see a reason to celabrate or elevate that biblical account.
Achilles' Dad must have been one heckuva Drill Seargent. R Lee Ermey on Steroids.
And the Bees Made Honey in the Lion's Skull by Earth
robin williams lives
--- Any symbolism behind the texas rangers winning the world series ? --
😂
I just saw a meme about this.
Do Herkules next.I think you can not understand western masculinity without Herkules and Christ.
47:00 I also think something is happening. And it is not following anyone's script.
Well, I am just an older person who never learned Greek mythology. I never read the Ellie and I never read the odyssey, and I looked it all up and found it not. Everybody believes it was even true. That it was just fictional and mythological. So I have a question for all of you people who love all that and my question is, why does it matter I have lived my life, not knowing about it and it hasn’t seem to of been a problem. So can you tell me why it’s important to have red Greek mythology know about it and all of the things you’re discussing?
I don’t understand the importance. I’d love someone to tell me why it was important?
Sorry because I was voice texting. There are errors in what I just wrote. Sorry. But my bottom line question is why does it matter?
Thank you
@@joolz5747not quite clear what you mean. Why anything? Why learn to read, why live in a house rather than a cave, etc.? Why know the foundational texts of your civilization? To be wiser and more spiritually sophisticated, I guess.
Cause maybe by reading it you see things that click.
Many people feel that these stories have a much higher density of click moments.
By click I mean light bulb moments
Accessing timeless perspectives supports one's personal cultivation of the depth and dimensionality of profound simplicity.
Christ lived an anti-claos life, yet, ironically, attained the most claos,
i think that is my interpretation of this.
I was. So close to being orthodox - but no - nothing on Zionist genocide? Thank the lord I didn’t fall. For anything lying- MY CHRIST DOESNT EXIST IN ANY RELIGION -and my loneliness is my sacrifice
We will not take sides in this war. We are on Christ’s side
Partriarch Theophilos of the Orthodox Partriarchate of Jerusalem issued an official statement. ARCHIBISHOP ALEXIUS of Gaza AND THE MONK SYLAS from the Tomb of thre Resurrection were in Saint Porphyrios 1600+ year old church in Gaza praying for all humanity, during vespers with Palestinian Orthodox Christians and many more of every faith sheltered in the administrative building of thr Monestary that was bombed. 18 Orthodox Christian dead from that. 10 from one family. And in one video, when one of them cried out in despair (a man) another one (a woman, off camera), responded "enough now, pray." Archibishop Alexios has vowed not to leave his flock or the church, for that is as Christ Himself did and will always do. The Archibishop Alexios and the faithful in Gaza have been through this before. There are still to this day Orthodox Christians in the place Christ Himself walked, and breathed and existed and was resurrected, Palestinian especially, since the beginning and they remain there no matter the centuries of suffering. This is your reason and profound example of becoming Orthodox. It is Christ's example. HIS!
Partriarch Theophilos
SAINT PORPHYRIOS ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN CHURCH GAZA
PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN SINCE THE BEGINNING.
We only need the bible
It amazes me how little you know of paganism, but I agree, the world needs to become pagan again before Christ returns.