As an enthusiast living in Bangkok, Tudor and Omega are perceived very differently. Tudor appears to new and younger watch enthusiasts while Omega attracts more seasoned collectors. A lot of Tudor buyers here buy one or two watches then they are aspired to move to Rolex as their next steps. I’ve met with many Omega buyers who are loyal customers and they keep buying many Omegas to build up their collections. Omega also got many desirable pieces and limited editions that their customers are really going after. In comparison, Tudor got very few of these special watches.
You got some good points, I have both omega and Tudor, agree on different perspectives. I had a few occasions where I get younger generations from my office are interested in my pelagos more than my seamaster. They do ask more questions about my pelagos and etc,.
I live in Jakarta, and I have a friend who I’ve been trying to get into watches. When considering what his first luxury watch purchase would be, he’a only considering Omega. He said he doesnt want his first expensive watch to be a Tudor. This is even after showing him a number of recently hyped Tudor models that I had in my collection. I guess to the layperson, the old poor man’s Rolex stigma is still strong with Tudor.
@@GrumblingForesight The poor man's Rolex stigma is mostly a western thing outside of Japan. The east is new money for the most part. There is less product differentiation/distinction. People with some money go the more expensive option. Most people in Indonesia with money haven't had it for long. It's apples and oranges.
He shouldn't have to say that. It's obvious. The fact that some wealthy and/or pretentious people claim otherwise can be easily ignored. Too many watch nerds get caught up in hierarchy and BS status plays.
@@lamentate07Exactly. Some people don’t realize they are in their own little bubble or echo chamber. Out in the real world, 99.99% of people don’t give af about what watch you’re wearing or how much it cost. Just buy what you genuinely love.
@@PeterR1chard That rules out both Rolex and Omega. To be fair. When most of the James Bond novels were written (the 1950's) Rolex wasn't the status symbol watchbrand that it is today.
‘Luxury’ is a curious construct. On page 132 of the S/S 1979 Argos catalogue (a still extant mid-market UK catalogue retailer) was featured an Omega F300 Constellation for £79.99, next to a 17-jewel Seiko (£49.99) and a gold-plated TV-case Tissot Seven automatic (£57.99). OK, it was 45 years ago, but accounting for CPI that £79.99 Omega in 1979 = £385 in 2024 (Bank of England calculator). The ‘story telling’ of marketeers has brought us to where we are today.
Very insightful. Since you mention Bangkok, I think Tudor have a more significant presence here than you suggest. At Siam Square there are currently four Tudor stores, but only one Omega store. (Two Rolex stores.)
True - They do, but it was more to the point the actual volumes for Tudor are not the big out there. They're trying but a more significant percentage of Omegas revenue comes from china and south east asia. Tudor is trying but haven't completely cracked the code yet 😃
Many thanks Mike . As always ,I find great value in your analysis and creative issues. In my humble opinion, I believe that you can add huge value to Grand Seiko if they dare to have you as their most professional consultant . You both deserve each other. With huge appreciation Nizar
Omega’s biggest issue IMO is being part of a group that’s publicly owned. Shareholders want short term gains and don’t care as much about the long term. I feel that is part of the reason for having so many variants as they’re just trying to grab as many dollars as they can. I always wonder what Omega would be like if they ever got to be independent again. Omega is my favorite brand as I love their designs and history.
Singapore mentioned! Definitely agree with that particular point, where Tudor is available at more "everyday working man" ADs but certainly not Omega. Btw, love the 00 at the back 🤙🏻
Yes and no, in my opinion - (1) the "hotness" of Rolex, then Omega, then Tudor (following Mike's logic) came from the fact that those were all "affordable" premium turned (-ing) luxury brands (again following Mike's logic here), whereas (2) UG will likely start at a much higher point pricing wise, similar to e. g. JLC. How so? (3) Breitlings are currently in the "Omega" / sub-$10k space, and (4) are expensive as they are (my opinion). (5) Breitling cannot re-launch UG into the same price segment because it will cannibalize their core sales, so they either have to (5)(a) move Breitling upmarket, which they cannot (see (4)), or to (5)(b) launch UG into the $10k+ space, which is not going to generate **that** level of excitement among mass consumers - because see (1)-(2). Side note: I've yet again found myself following Mike's logic throughout (3)-(5), which is to say that this guy adds so much value to the conversation it's unbelievable. I do, however, see where you're coming from - I'd love UG to make it big (boy will good ol' Alfred Gantner have a payday).
@@thamadflavathey already stated in a interview that UG will be higher in price than Breitling. I think they are aiming for JLC, Glashütte Original etc.
@@heinerjurgens5362 exactly, makes perfect sense. I believe that Mike foresaw that one as well, he has an extremely good video that on UG, explaining intricacies of private-equity shenanigans, among other.
Quite simple: No1 rolex No 2 omega No3 tudor No3 wants to be No2, No2 wants to be No1 and rolex.wants to keep its position using tudor to challenge omega.
Indeed they are! Rolex has got to be the smartest watch and marketing company in the world. Many watch enthusiasts in the online space, particularly TH-cam, seem to detest (or at least show intense disdain) for Rolex and vow to never wear their pieces, all the while showing love for Tudor due to the brand's image of availability and modesty. These same consumers also show great admiration towards Omega due to similar reasons. Of course, the great irony being that by purchasing Tudor (over Omega), those consumers end up lining the pockets of the company they despise so much🤣
@@loevhagen6984 I wasn’t referring to Mike…but Tudor fanboys who think they are winning when the business results suggest Tudor has plateaued (at best). Tudor make good dive watches…but in no way are Omega level
I don’t have a Rolex. I do have a Tudor (BB S&G) and a few omegas I love my Tudor. And even though I tell myself I love it for what it is. I still get tired of either 1. People never having heard of them 2. “Couldn’t afford a Rolex huh” It is changing. But I must admit it bothers me more than I thought it would. Maybe I’m more of a watch snob than I thought. I love your work and I’m glad I found you. I’m keeping the Tudor
I own neither a Rolex Submariner or a Tudor Black Bay. That said, if I ignore price and brand, I like the look of the Black Bay much more. More classic. And without that overkill of in the face text on the dial. making it look much cleaner.
The obvious answer is ‘if buy a Rolex - new, at MSRP, but refuse to support the grey market.’ Anyone who hasn’t heard of Tudor isn’t even worth trying to talk to about watches.
I think longines is primed to be the next one up. They've always come across as a "not quite there" kind of brand. Strong heritage with a large catalog to innovate with.
Yes, people's opinions are usually pathetic. It doesn't matter what it is.... Spectrum 48k Vs Commodore 64 Atari ST Vs Amiga Rolex Vs Omega. It has always been stupid
This is a great video thx. About 4 years ago, I bought my first ‘higher end’ watch (defined by me as a watch that costs thousands rather than hundreds) - a Tudor Black Bay 36 in Blue. I love it but it wasn’t COSC but top grade non certified ETA 2824, basically COSC standard without the certificate and with an Oyster bracelet. Now the same watch comes with COSC and a Jubilee bracelet. They have moved it ostensibly from IPA man tool watch (I’m an IPA man too) to a more premium luxury watch and increased the price by about a third. This isn’t quite the same as your thesis but is a fair illustration of the movement towards Omega. A second illustration is that I recently was in the market for a luxury watch for me and my wife. I was interested in the Tudor Master Chronometer METAS GMT and thinking of a 1926 for my wife. The GMT was back ordered (like Rolex) and the particular AD branch that we visited didn’t stock Tudor (even though sister branches did). This made me look at Omega. I ended up increasing the budget and walking away with a 41mm Aquaterra black teak on steel and a De Ville Prestige with mother of pearl 30mm for my wife! My budget doubled!!!! I spent twice the money I would have done on the Tudor - I think I realized the difference between the brands and decided that for me, the tool watch would be fine, but for our special occasion, it was luxury that won the day. I am really happy with our purchases.
Interesting analysis. One aspect which is changing rapidly is brand recognition in Asia for Tudor. Historically, its true: OMEGA is huge over here but Tudor has gained massive traction over the last 5 years. The 'empty' boutiques are not necessarily true but maybe rather a phenomenon to the abundance of watch shops in places like SG, KL, BKK, HK or SHA compared to other parts of the world. Personally, I like most watch brands and not necessarilly a big Tudor or Omega fan. As their models are however very accessible and tax free over here, I bought a BB58 and 54 on steel before as it seems there continues to be demand for these in the future and price reduction is unlikely. Great channel. Love the video's. If you are ever in the region, please be my guest.
Currently all sales are down, but in the last 10 years Tudor went from 0 sales to a quarter of a million as opposed to most others that declined over the period 😃
Thanks Mike for a very objective answer. In answering your question, I think the next brand on the move is Longines. They have been hitting it out of the park lately with their product offerings and even are starting to slowly move up the ladder in terms of pricing.
Wonderful content, thanks for such a great contribution to the community. My thought of Tudor vs Omega is that Tudor will drop back down in popularity now that the watch bubble has burst. Rolex shops can't convince buyers to buy a Tudor to get on the list now.
Great video as always!! Just wanted to point out a small error. The Avg. Omega price is 6573 - I think you grabbed the average Cartier price by mistake. Also, the prices are probably in CHF not dollars. Not trying to be a smartass, just wanted to let you know. I really enjoyed the analysis!
I've never looked at a Tudor and desired owning it. I recently bought an Omega Speedmaster racing and absolutely love it. Omega has had a few lines that I love. I've just never felt it with a Tudor at all.
Has anyone ever fall out the honeymoon phase of watch collecting? I have like 9 watches, mostly under 1k range and a tudor. Had the chance to buy a rolex but I just stopped caring for watches and got obsessed with investing... instead of spending that 11k on a rolex, I just put in a 5% apy savings account instead. Lately I barely even wear watches anymore.
I have an Omega Planet Ocean cal.8900 and a Tudor BB41 Monochrome. I like both of these watches but I much prefer the Omega brand. In fact, the Monochrome is the only Tudor that speaks to me while there are several Omega watches that interest me, starting with the Aqua Terra 41mm cal.8900.
Deeply insightful! I browsed through the website of Omega and I came across half a dozen models that I felt like buying and actually ended up buying 3. I sold 2 of them for a major haircut and kept the one that meant the most to me which is the James Bond No Time To Die Seamaster because I’m a big fan of Daniel Craig. I’m not sure if I will ever buy another Omega ever again.
Another excellent analysis. I own Omega and Tudor watches, dating from the 70’s until 2023. I have exactly the same opinion as you do. Both are excellent, but Omega is more luxurious. No question in my mind. I see the big hype now being Longines, and how they are going after Tudor. Maybe based on the breadth of their lineup, but Tudor still makes better watches IMO. Keep up the great work.
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch This is a bit puzzling to me - I love the design and how it looks, everyone seems to like it too but Omega so far doesn't seem to sell them like I thought they would....it's strange, such a beauty, everyone loves it and very few actually buy it....
Mike the simple answer to your question is . . . drum roll . . . the watch company that provides watches for a different type of customer, a new niche. My question to you is, what other possible niches are there that could be clearly delineated ?
Really a great analysis - cannot disagree with anything yu say. As a 5 Omega owner, I may be biased, but, I own them for the reasons you mentioned. Thank you!
Yet again, a knockout video and absolutely on point! 😊 My two cents: I really admire Omega as a brand for all the reasons you mentioned and wish one day to own one. Yet currently, Tudor makes the watch I want to own - Black Bay 54. Should we be graced with a slightly downsized Seamaster 300 Heritage, that would be very compelling! Please keep the content coming 🙏
To answer your final question, I think the next in line is Longines, which I think is seen in the swatch group as the equivalent of what Tudor is with respect to Rolex. Longines is kind of the lower omega that know has to compete with tudor to keep omega against rolex and not the lower tudor.
Another excellent one thanks. And for your concluding question Longines looks on track to be the next one in Switzerland - but I wouldn’t underestimate what Citizen is doing for a few years… Japan is back !
Analysis on point as always. To give my shot on your question at the end, it's not the same space as it's already more expensive and luxury, but I think a brand poised for a resurgence in hype and excitement to re-establish themselves strongly is IWC. They're gradually showing signs of life again and innovating with high-quality pieces and taking some swings. I think they're about to make a hit.
I currently own the Pelagos FXD MN, the Black Bay 58, the Black bay Bronze, the Seamaster Nekton and the Speedy Broad Arrow 57. I love Tudor, and might pick that as my one and only brand if I had to. It’s a great combination of price, toughness and good looks. But Omega has better finishing throughout all of its watches, over and above Tudor. If I were Tudor, I would be careful not to increase my prices up to Omega’s level, as I think Tudor probably loses in a head to head comparison.
Well done Mike, you really are providing excellent content for your viewers!!! Thank you!! And to answer your question, in that price range, probably Zenith. But LVMH has the marketing dollars, so we will see a big push with Tag Heuer coming on strong!!
Ironically both of these brands have more heritage than Tudor has now or Omega had twenty years ago. Fully agree that Tag is well positioned to fill Tudor’s position. And LVMH seems to be taking watches serious at last. Maybe time to scour the market for some of their classics.
Brilliant take this. Although that shouldnt come as a surprise with this channelZ Thank you for explaining the parallels between today’s Tudor and Omega’s trajectory in the 90s and 2000s. Will Tag or Longines be next? My money’s on Longines as they have access to the engineering might that Omega has access to (ETA) and a massive treasure trove of potential inspiration in their back catalog. Will we see a Metas certified Longines in the near future as Omega shifts towards the even more stringent Laboratoire de Precision standards? Surely thats gotta be at least part of the plan, no?
Where did you get that Omega was shifting towards the Laboratoire de Précision Standard ? 🤔🧐 I would like to know what is more stringent about it and in which respect it would be better than METAS ?
Omega's CoAxial movement is a game changer. the 8900 is the most accurate chronometer out there, super low friction means time between servicing is double and it makes for an amazing time piece
I believe either Longines or TAG will take Tudors place in the future. Both have great heritage, they've launched incredible pieces in 2023/2024 and people are talking about them more and more.... Especially Longines, it's incredible value for money... The other well established luxury brands either have their own niche (take Cartier, JLC) or are already priced at the same level as Omega (for example IWC)... If Longines continues releasing bangers and getting better finishing, I believe they can become incredibly popular
No doubt Longines have stepped up and have improved their reputation in the west lately. The Zulu Time has superior finishing to most Tudor offerings to my eyes, but Longines don't plan on increasing their prices as much as others apparently, which means they could potentially fall further behind in terms of status and brand perception.
@@lamentate07 true, I haven’t considered the price aspect and how it might still be considered a “duty free airport brand”. It’s quite hard to change their perception in the west but with good marketing and maybe also trying more “luxurious” materials (for example, titanium) would be a way to change that. My prediction for TAG is of course directly related to the LVMH group and how they’re genius marketers. There is the new F1 sponsorship deal, a lot of people talked about the collab with Kith (of course extremely overpriced but appreciated by the fashionistas and created buzz)… their latest Carreras are fire too I think…
@@CraigPowers-b8p I was looking for a diver with an internal bezel and the same day I’ve tried the JLC Polaris (beautiful watch) and the new Longines legend diver that has a similar design language… and, oh boy, the Longines was love at first sight for a fraction of the price… it’s sporty, chic and vintagey at the same time… incredible piece… of course from a horological standpoint it’s clearly an inferior piece but design and finishing is clearly on par
Breitling with Universal Geneva is the next one to look out for in my humble opinion. I own a few classic models and UG name and history offers a different proposition to by now boring Navitimers and other offerings from Breitling
I owned a Black Bay GMT and it was a solid watch. But I flipped it after 6 months. I own the Seamaster 300m and the Planet Ocean. Both of them are a cut above the Black Bay. Its sometimes difficult to see on youtube, but in real life you notice the quality materials and details more on the Omegas.
Except for the bezel action of the seamaster 300m. It’s slippery and feels and sounds cheap. Tudor’s bezel action is a lot better. I didn’t get the seamaster 300m because it floats on my wrist due to the open caseback, such a shame it looks very nice!
The Tudor vs Omega fight can be summed up in one watch: The 1908 rice-grain blue guilloche. Rolex has pulled away from Omega to the point of being able to command a price 1.5 times or twice as much as Omega. Rolex just assumed it has pulled so far ahead of Omega, that Tudor can take up the battle now. Rolex just assumed it has pulled so far ahead that it can command $30k for the 1908. Actual result: The 1908 is NOT sold out. Customers aren't queuing up to lap it up. The 1908 is an awesome watch but not awesome at 30k. It's just average at that price. Eventually inflation will catch up and make that watch reasonable as well. But today, Tudor has a long way to go.
As usual, incisive analysis. Thank you! Unrelated, if of interest to you, would you share your take on Oceanus? This integrates the quartz-mechanical dimension, but also the new Manta line raises additional questions.
On point to where Omega and Tudor are positioned. I own a Rolex Sub and it has taken the diver slot. I now am looking for a robust sport/military chronograph. The Sinn EZM 13.1 is currently at the top of the list. With the Omega Speedmaster 3861 down the road. I bounce around with Tudor as they have exciting offerings from the BB 58, BB chrono, to the LHD Pelagos, which makes me undecided about Tudor all together, in the end, sticking to my Rolex to save money for something different and special - a Sinn!
This is a good take on both brands. I have the Ed White Speedy and it is my favorite Omega - someone mentioned below in the comments that Omega has not been doing well with bracelets, the Ed White has one of the best (most comfortable) bracelets to rival the Rolex sub oyster (the straight lugs help). For Tudor, I want the blue Pelagos FXD on a NATO strap - it will be the next watch I buy, and a great everyday watch.
Excellent and interesting video thanks. My $.02: I see the difference in terms of style. Tudor makes relatively conventionally styled timepieces, as does Rolex. Omega styles their watches differently. They have few icons (really only the Speedmaster), and have so many variations that when one says Seamster, for instance, not one image appears. I’ve wanted an Omega for years, but just haven’t found one classically styled. I own 2 Tudors, and 3 Rolexes. All the best.
Well thought out analysis and perspective. I quite enjoy listening to your design & marketing points, and continue to learn alot from your analysis. I look at Tudor as a "teenager who has entered young adulthood in its 20's". More & more Tudor is focusing on tool watches, whereas, Rolex seems preoccupied in moving up market. I want to ask you how far will Rolex let Tudor be independent and develop their own branding and design cues before Rolex feels Tudor is a threat to Mother Rolex itself in the tool watch space? In other words, is Tudor free to compete anyway it wants to, or does Mother Rolex get to vote on its next watch releases?
I have a bone to pick with Omega. Omega’s bracelets are almost like Grand Seiko. “Close enough, they’ll still buy it.” Somewhere, I picture a mechanical engineer and a product manager that are overpaid, resting on their laurels. Tudor, in addition to Metas, has steadily improved their bracelets.
Another sound video and well constructed argument The statistics speak for themselves as you say With the advent of METAS for Tudor this makes them compelling indeed I like many omega watches and have owned a couple but I’m not sure I’d get another Tudor is compelling but I still haven’t discovered a model I really love. It would have been the FXD chrono but no bracelet option is a deal breaker for me
This is such a fascinating comparison Mike. My first Tudor is the Ranger. I think you nailed it with Tudor speaks to the younger generation. As a millennial, I find Omega to be too luxurious and for older people.
Outstanding market analysis. It will be interesting to see if Tudor’s “settling in” toward the luxury segment will continue to focus so much as they have on the Black Bay line, or branch out. I think they’ll need to refocus on a new line to avoid it becoming stale. To your question, I have no idea which company fills their slot, but it’ll be interesting
Swatch is definitely dropping the ball. I've seen some very bad QC issues. A Seamaster with hair found under the crystal and lume falling out of the bezel. I guess Omega is too busy ass kissing those lame ass brand ambassadors that don't give 2 shits about Omega and paying for that awful marketing. That's straight up embarrassing. Omega isn't the great brand they once were unfortunately anyone who doesn't notice the brand has fell off are either blind or don't want to admit it
@@lonewolfemcquade8133 Tudor GMT date wheel issues? Pelegos 39 bezel insert numbers falling out? Please…Omega quality, movements, and finishing is Premier League…Tudor Championship League
Mike…I think your overarching thesis around brand rejuvenation for both Tudor and Omega is well thought out and indisputable. I do think Tudor is self limited by Rolex…Omega doesn’t have that limitation. Additionally, as you discussed…Tudors lineup is limited (primarily BB dive watches)…and I think this limits their appeal. It’s also a very masculine brand (which is totally fine) but also misses a fast growing female watch buying segment (see Cartier). Omega is better positioned with woman…Longines is also for that matter.
Omega's central tourbillon is imo the aesthetically most pleasing way of fitting a tourbillon onto the front of a watch. Tudor has nothing close to it in its lineup. The Speedmaster is along with the Daytona t h e iconic sports chronograph. I wonder how big Tudor's appeal would be, if they had no affiliation with Rolex and their designs would have no inspiration/ressemblance with older Rolex' aesthetics...but Omega isn't as good marketing-wise. I had no idea how deep their involvement in Olympic time measurements actually goes until I saw the very recent time & tide video. They can still capitalize on their branding from the last century that cemented them as a houldhold name in the heads of older folks...but I wonder how they want to capture the following generations...great video as always:)
I think Omega should offer a Customer Configuration option to their customers to allow the selection of a range of movements, dials, bracelets/straps, etc… for each model. This would be the next step up ☝🏽
E.g. Todor Pelegos, which is a great watch. However, compare it to a Scurfa D1 titanium. Is the difference in price tool functionality Or name on the dial(luxury)?
Very interesting video, thank you. I was thinking of the same thing recently my comments as follow: Still some Omega models compete with Rolex models so some still think of Rolex vs Omega, but disagree: Tudor will beat Omega, the production numbers doesnt reflect the desirability and Tudor is going to attract more people in the coming years. Not to mention that from personal experience Omega has more QC issues than Tudors (at least the ones i owned). But only time will tell 😊
There’s an old Tudor ad that illustrates a woman horseback riding & I still think that’s the vibe. It’s practical, easy for everyday wear, good price point.
In a UK AD it would be: Rolex Omega Tudor Breitling (Who really need new management/ownership) TAG Heuer (Gifts for wives and sons) Grand Seiko seem to have messed up crashing the party IMO, which is a shame..
Hi, good morning, could you do a review on watches made by Ball ? No one seems to be interested in doing a review on them ? Your vids are very good, great info content. Ciao
Omega & Tudor are both terrific timepieces. You should purchase what you love and can afford…it’s that simple Omega tends to dilute their offerings with too many variations.
Well, let’s agree that most of us is referring to Rolex for every move or initiative for any watch brand on earth and we know why, but is that right? Not at all because the big groups like SWATCH, LVMH etc are following different pathways and strategies to reach their objectives (not just to be another Rolex). I can see LONGINES with all the support from its history, achievements and Group management will be a serious player in this industry. Who believes that Tudor can beat OMEGA believes that Rolex is competing with the Holey Trinity brands for example. However, we should stop emotions to cheat us and start monitoring things on scale of 10 years at least. Love and buy what you like regardless market statistics and social media. Enjoy your experience (up & down)
Omega has a brand recognition and timeless models than Tudor can only aspire to. In terms of sales, is number 3 vs number 17 in Swiss watch sale numbers. Outside the BB and Pelagos they have boring models. Longines is far superior to Tudor in some respects and has a much larger market share. The METAS qualification is sort of nice but irrelevant to most customers. I like your style of videos. Much appreciated even if we do not have the same opinion. Cheers.
No, because Tudor will always be in the shadow of Rolex no matter what people say, also, Omega has the co-axial movement, Tudor doesn’t. Lastly, Grand Seiko should be in this conversation.
I really like the huge Omega catalog as it provides me with so many options to choose from. It’s great. The next step up would be to offer customer configuration options which would be even better ☝🏽
I've been watching Omega for years waiting for "the one" hoping to get a co-axial movement in my watch. Huge numbers of California dials, dials like a ploughed field, dials like a badly ploughed field not to mention vastly overpriced plastic quartz watches. Now we have the Aqua Terra with a plain black dial, superb. Could be the cost of all the inventory they are carrying or could be they are just taking their customers for mugs. They have just increased the price dramatically for no reason than to make more profit, that's their prerogative, but they aren't getting it from me. Tudor might though if they provide "the one" . Bremont is very similar to Omega, for many years they've had watches which were nearly there at a price I was prepared to pay. The watches are not nearly there now but the prices have had a huge hike.
In this category I prefer the Tudor monochrome. But I was so disappointed by their customer service. I recently went to an AD and asked to try the new burgundy/black GMT. They had one in the display but were out of stock and refused to let me try it. I was very shocked and disappointed. I guess they are behaving like Rolex. Whenever I go to a Cartier, JLC or Omega AD I am well treated, and these are watches twice as expensive than the aforementioned Tudor. I guess I will just go for the Longines GMT ( another place where I feel like I am treated as a customer )
Several people have mentioned Longines as being the next one to step up. But, would they have to go upmarket to do it? They seem to dominate the $1K-$3K entry-level luxury range. And moving upmarket could impede on other Swatch Group brands, like Omega. So, that’s why I think their growth may be limited. But, who knows?
According to the current CEO, they don't have any intention to move more upmarket, but they are definitely following other luxury watch brands by adding more precious metals to some of their models to increase their value/price. I can't see Longines succeeding by moving too far up the value chain. They were a dominant force on the same level as Rolex and Omega back in their heyday, but now they are just viewed as a quality entry level luxury/premium watch brand. If they keep jacking up prices, they will no longer be seen as a legitimate value proposition. Their main challenge now will be to maintain their reputation in the east and improve their brand image in the west, particularly in North America where they are viewed as budget luxury or a premium mall watch.
I recently was in the market for a dive watch. It came down to the Pelagos vs Seamaster. I really only like the look of the retro Seamasters. It came down to the size, titanium and look of the Pelagos 39. To be honest, the price between the two was not very relevant to me. Which brand I thought would impress more people also has little to do with my decision making.
It'll be fun to see Tudor move up the value ladder. People who bought and love their old BB's, BB58's and etc. and retain them for 30-40 years will have wonderful vintage pieces from the olden times. Maybe we'll look back on them like we do 5 digit Rolexes today.
I think they will look at them like we look at Longines from 30 to 40 years ago. Definitely not like we look at vintage Rolex. Very different categories.
I’ve had the Pelagos and BB58 in hand for a while at the AD, on two separate occasions. There’s no doubt in my mind that Tudor is not at the same level as Omega. The fit and finish of the Tudor isn’t at Omega’s level. Tudor quality and finish is more like Christopher Ward, and is excellent, but not Omega level. And that’s fine because Tudor’s are lower priced.
I would like to think, that Longines is next, although we should have a look on Citizen or Seiko from the same perspective as you have now applied on Omega and Tudor.
I think Breitling since 2016-2017 with George Kern on the helm is on that roll/ journey now, setting up a big but streamlined catalog with recognizable design that are timeless, like Rolex. One can clearly see that they are going more back to their root designs with the Chronomat bracelet, their Premier line and their revamped Navitimer line, and more but with a modern approach. They also focus on bringing the B01 to the «top» watch in each line-up to signal that all their watches are almost equal to each other, just different use-cases, again taking a large out of the Rolex playbook. They have their endurance and emergency as a more niche offering. They also made Tudors movement available by sharing their B01, hopefully they will take on a bigger partnership with Kenissi. Edit: With Omega now settled, I also think SWATCH is focusing more on Longines now with their Zulu Time, Legend Diver, HQ GMT, their new GADA 38/41 Conquest, and more.
I love the 00 Gundam in the background! On topic - Tudor is great, but they will never reach Omega. Omega has far richer legacy and achievements and quality overall. Also omega aims to move upmarket. What can happen is that Tudor may eventually occupy the place where Omega is NOW in the market. But at that time, Omega will still be above Tudor.
Interesting video but Omega will always be an "alpha-dream brand" for some. Tudor will always be a beta Rolex. Tudor makes some beautiful watches. Other brands also offer beautiful watches for even less money. When Omega announces a watch, the market takes notice. When Tudor announces a new watch, some people who cannot afford a Rolex or Omega notice but the market does not.
Interesting, I bought a seamaster 300m in 2002 (£985 or so), I'm back in the market and find myself drawn to Tudor party because I want something different to Omega. I think it proves the argument that Tudor is the old omega.
You didn't mention Tudor's investment into pro road cycling which does not come cheap. They are already competing in the Giro. If they make waves in the TDF going forward that will have a big effect surely. Who's next?? Not a clue. Longines have been upping their game but they will be restrained by the Swatch group from outdoing Omega.
As you have mentioned, as the voice of wisdom as always, the problem omega faces is something like “paradox of choices”. Abundance of models makes the brand less recognizable and less focused on quality. On the other hand, Rolex focuses on less models and refining them to excellence.
the Problem about tudor will always be the majority opinion of people, who are into watches, will always say, you only wear a tudor cause you had not the money for a rolex. Thats sad cause especially the new black bay with this insane good movement and on the jubilee looks awesome for 4500 bucks. Also tudor watches getting expensiver every new release and rolex prices are going down, especially on the greymarket and they getting more available. So if tudor hits the 5k, you literaly can save up another 2 or 3k and buy a brand new rolex perpetual 41 or Explorer 2
I love Tudor, I have two, but they need to develop non BB lines. They totally missed the integrated bracelet craze by ignoring their Royal line. That was a mistake.
Agreed! I have one Tudor, the 2022 Ranger. It's a magnificent watch, but the Tudor that never gets talked about. That said, under the radar works fur me just fine.
I like some of the Tudor pieces, I’ve owned the BB41 and BB58 and felt the value for money there. They are relatively basic though, both technically and in finish. Omega, especially the higher end pieces, are far superior to anything Tudor has to offer.
What I love about this channel is that this is as much about watch than it is about marketing. Thanks
Completely agree, lessons in marketing using the watch industry as an example.
As an enthusiast living in Bangkok, Tudor and Omega are perceived very differently. Tudor appears to new and younger watch enthusiasts while Omega attracts more seasoned collectors. A lot of Tudor buyers here buy one or two watches then they are aspired to move to Rolex as their next steps. I’ve met with many Omega buyers who are loyal customers and they keep buying many Omegas to build up their collections. Omega also got many desirable pieces and limited editions that their customers are really going after. In comparison, Tudor got very few of these special watches.
You got some good points, I have both omega and Tudor, agree on different perspectives. I had a few occasions where I get younger generations from my office are interested in my pelagos more than my seamaster. They do ask more questions about my pelagos and etc,.
I live in Jakarta, and I have a friend who I’ve been trying to get into watches. When considering what his first luxury watch purchase would be, he’a only considering Omega. He said he doesnt want his first expensive watch to be a Tudor. This is even after showing him a number of recently hyped Tudor models that I had in my collection. I guess to the layperson, the old poor man’s Rolex stigma is still strong with Tudor.
@@GrumblingForesight I AGREE TUDOR IS TRASH 😂😂😂😂 AND A POOR MANS ROLEX😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@heimdallyong7181 CAP 🧢 😂😂😂😂😂
@@GrumblingForesight The poor man's Rolex stigma is mostly a western thing outside of Japan. The east is new money for the most part. There is less product differentiation/distinction. People with some money go the more expensive option. Most people in Indonesia with money haven't had it for long. It's apples and oranges.
"Omega, despite what some TH-camrs say, is luxury." Love it. ❤
He shouldn't have to say that. It's obvious. The fact that some wealthy and/or pretentious people claim otherwise can be easily ignored. Too many watch nerds get caught up in hierarchy and BS status plays.
@@lamentate07Exactly. Some people don’t realize they are in their own little bubble or echo chamber. Out in the real world, 99.99% of people don’t give af about what watch you’re wearing or how much it cost. Just buy what you genuinely love.
@@PeterR1chard That rules out both Rolex and Omega. To be fair. When most of the James Bond novels were written (the 1950's) Rolex wasn't the status symbol watchbrand that it is today.
@@PeterR1chardAP has entered the chat.. 😂
‘Luxury’ is a curious construct. On page 132 of the S/S 1979 Argos catalogue (a still extant mid-market UK catalogue retailer) was featured an Omega F300 Constellation for £79.99, next to a 17-jewel Seiko (£49.99) and a gold-plated TV-case Tissot Seven automatic (£57.99). OK, it was 45 years ago, but accounting for CPI that £79.99 Omega in 1979 = £385 in 2024 (Bank of England calculator). The ‘story telling’ of marketeers has brought us to where we are today.
This was a great idea for a video. You grabbed a hot topic and discussed it with your usual clear and well-balanced analysis. Thanks Mike!
I appreciate that!
Very interesting! I believe Longines with their new Conquest and the Zulu Time is positioned to try and up their desirability in the coming years.
This is by far one of the most complicated analysis you have published. Amazing.
If complicated is good, then thanks 😃😃😂
Very insightful. Since you mention Bangkok, I think Tudor have a more significant presence here than you suggest. At Siam Square there are currently four Tudor stores, but only one Omega store. (Two Rolex stores.)
2 competing Patek Philippe ADs also 🤣
True - They do, but it was more to the point the actual volumes for Tudor are not the big out there. They're trying but a more significant percentage of Omegas revenue comes from china and south east asia. Tudor is trying but haven't completely cracked the code yet 😃
Many thanks Mike . As always ,I find great value in your analysis and creative issues. In my humble opinion, I believe that you can add huge value to Grand Seiko if they dare to have you as their most professional consultant . You both deserve each other.
With huge appreciation
Nizar
Lol. I just want to talk about watches. I don't actually want to do "work". lol. 😂😂 But thanks for the vote of confidence 😃
Omega’s biggest issue IMO is being part of a group that’s publicly owned. Shareholders want short term gains and don’t care as much about the long term. I feel that is part of the reason for having so many variants as they’re just trying to grab as many dollars as they can. I always wonder what Omega would be like if they ever got to be independent again. Omega is my favorite brand as I love their designs and history.
Singapore mentioned! Definitely agree with that particular point, where Tudor is available at more "everyday working man" ADs but certainly not Omega. Btw, love the 00 at the back 🤙🏻
This might sound completely crazy, but I kind of wonder if the Universal Geneve relaunch might be that next “hot brand”…
Yes and no, in my opinion - (1) the "hotness" of Rolex, then Omega, then Tudor (following Mike's logic) came from the fact that those were all "affordable" premium turned (-ing) luxury brands (again following Mike's logic here), whereas (2) UG will likely start at a much higher point pricing wise, similar to e. g. JLC.
How so? (3) Breitlings are currently in the "Omega" / sub-$10k space, and (4) are expensive as they are (my opinion). (5) Breitling cannot re-launch UG into the same price segment because it will cannibalize their core sales, so they either have to (5)(a) move Breitling upmarket, which they cannot (see (4)), or to (5)(b) launch UG into the $10k+ space, which is not going to generate **that** level of excitement among mass consumers - because see (1)-(2).
Side note: I've yet again found myself following Mike's logic throughout (3)-(5), which is to say that this guy adds so much value to the conversation it's unbelievable.
I do, however, see where you're coming from - I'd love UG to make it big (boy will good ol' Alfred Gantner have a payday).
@@eggsII They certainly have a great history,especially with chronographs.
@@thamadflavathey already stated in a interview that UG will be higher in price than Breitling. I think they are aiming for JLC, Glashütte Original etc.
@@heinerjurgens5362 exactly, makes perfect sense. I believe that Mike foresaw that one as well, he has an extremely good video that on UG, explaining intricacies of private-equity shenanigans, among other.
@@heinerjurgens5362this, they will be firmly in 5 figure territory….
Quite simple:
No1 rolex
No 2 omega
No3 tudor
No3 wants to be No2, No2 wants to be No1 and rolex.wants to keep its position using tudor to challenge omega.
@@ericl755 TUDOR IS NOT TOP 3😂😂😂😂TUDOR SALES WERE DOWN LAST YEAR AND AND THEY NEVER CRACKED THE TOP 10😂😂😂😂 TUDOR IS A FAKE ROLEX 😂😂😂😂😂
Indeed they are!
Rolex has got to be the smartest watch and marketing company in the world.
Many watch enthusiasts in the online space, particularly TH-cam, seem to detest (or at least show intense disdain) for Rolex and vow to never wear their pieces, all the while showing love for Tudor due to the brand's image of availability and modesty. These same consumers also show great admiration towards Omega due to similar reasons.
Of course, the great irony being that by purchasing Tudor (over Omega), those consumers end up lining the pockets of the company they despise so much🤣
What you say is factually false. Tudor isn’t growing their business, their business is contracting (Source: Morgan Stanley Report).
@@GoTerpsGoBlue He didn't say Tudor is growing their business. He referred to people purchasing a Tudor product.
@@loevhagen6984 I wasn’t referring to Mike…but Tudor fanboys who think they are winning when the business results suggest Tudor has plateaued (at best). Tudor make good dive watches…but in no way are Omega level
@@GoTerpsGoBlue Plateau right now is actually really good. 95% of watch companies are losing money right now including Omega.
@@fj7509 and how do you know this? please present your source on the 95% and Omega losing money.
I don’t have a Rolex. I do have a Tudor (BB S&G) and a few omegas
I love my Tudor. And even though I tell myself I love it for what it is. I still get tired of either 1. People never having heard of them 2. “Couldn’t afford a Rolex huh”
It is changing. But I must admit it bothers me more than I thought it would. Maybe I’m more of a watch snob than I thought.
I love your work and I’m glad I found you. I’m keeping the Tudor
Who cares what other people think! Just wear what you like.
I own neither a Rolex Submariner or a Tudor Black Bay. That said, if I ignore price and brand, I like the look of the Black Bay much more. More classic. And without that overkill of in the face text on the dial. making it look much cleaner.
If you want a watch people know go buy a Seiko lol
The obvious answer is ‘if buy a Rolex - new, at MSRP, but refuse to support the grey market.’ Anyone who hasn’t heard of Tudor isn’t even worth trying to talk to about watches.
I get Tudor at the 1-2k price range but aren’t some of their RRPs now 5-6k? Might as well just save a little longer and get a 90s Sub…
I think longines is primed to be the next one up. They've always come across as a "not quite there" kind of brand. Strong heritage with a large catalog to innovate with.
No innovation.
Wow. I’ve already commented but
You have just made it cool to own either watch without making it a competition. Incredible
Yes, people's opinions are usually pathetic. It doesn't matter what it is....
Spectrum 48k Vs Commodore 64
Atari ST Vs Amiga
Rolex Vs Omega.
It has always been stupid
They're both good watchmakers 😃
This is a great video thx. About 4 years ago, I bought my first ‘higher end’ watch (defined by me as a watch that costs thousands rather than hundreds) - a Tudor Black Bay 36 in Blue. I love it but it wasn’t COSC but top grade non certified ETA 2824, basically COSC standard without the certificate and with an Oyster bracelet. Now the same watch comes with COSC and a Jubilee bracelet. They have moved it ostensibly from IPA man tool watch (I’m an IPA man too) to a more premium luxury watch and increased the price by about a third. This isn’t quite the same as your thesis but is a fair illustration of the movement towards Omega. A second illustration is that I recently was in the market for a luxury watch for me and my wife. I was interested in the Tudor Master Chronometer METAS GMT and thinking of a 1926 for my wife. The GMT was back ordered (like Rolex) and the particular AD branch that we visited didn’t stock Tudor (even though sister branches did). This made me look at Omega. I ended up increasing the budget and walking away with a 41mm Aquaterra black teak on steel and a De Ville Prestige with mother of pearl 30mm for my wife! My budget doubled!!!! I spent twice the money I would have done on the Tudor - I think I realized the difference between the brands and decided that for me, the tool watch would be fine, but for our special occasion, it was luxury that won the day. I am really happy with our purchases.
Interesting analysis. One aspect which is changing rapidly is brand recognition in Asia for Tudor. Historically, its true: OMEGA is huge over here but Tudor has gained massive traction over the last 5 years. The 'empty' boutiques are not necessarily true but maybe rather a phenomenon to the abundance of watch shops in places like SG, KL, BKK, HK or SHA compared to other parts of the world. Personally, I like most watch brands and not necessarilly a big Tudor or Omega fan. As their models are however very accessible and tax free over here, I bought a BB58 and 54 on steel before as it seems there continues to be demand for these in the future and price reduction is unlikely.
Great channel. Love the video's. If you are ever in the region, please be my guest.
STOP IT😂😂😂 TUDOR SALES ARE DOWN 😂😂😂 MORE SOCIAL MEDIA PROPAGANDA 😂😂😂😂😂
@@SIZZO76 I think you are not wrong...I feel they sit on 75% on their models whilst the 25% of desirable peaces are sold within two days.
Currently all sales are down, but in the last 10 years Tudor went from 0 sales to a quarter of a million as opposed to most others that declined over the period 😃
Thanks Mike for a very objective answer. In answering your question, I think the next brand on the move is Longines. They have been hitting it out of the park lately with their product offerings and even are starting to slowly move up the ladder in terms of pricing.
Longines is getting a lot of votes 😃😃
Wonderful content, thanks for such a great contribution to the community.
My thought of Tudor vs Omega is that Tudor will drop back down in popularity now that the watch bubble has burst. Rolex shops can't convince buyers to buy a Tudor to get on the list now.
@@larslofgren4174 I agree. TUDOR IS A FAKE ROLEX😂😂😂😂 ALSO SALES WERE DOWN LAST YEAR 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Thanks. Glad you enjoy it 😃
After trying the BB58 & BB54; I bought 39 titanium, it scratches easily on bracelet but it’s a perfect tool watch.
My Tudor GMT Master chronometer is on order with the rubber option. Looking forward to receiving it.
Great video as always!! Just wanted to point out a small error. The Avg. Omega price is 6573 - I think you grabbed the average Cartier price by mistake. Also, the prices are probably in CHF not dollars. Not trying to be a smartass, just wanted to let you know. I really enjoyed the analysis!
Thanks for the callout. Fortunately it doesn't change the conclusions 😃😃
I've never looked at a Tudor and desired owning it. I recently bought an Omega Speedmaster racing and absolutely love it. Omega has had a few lines that I love. I've just never felt it with a Tudor at all.
One of your best analyses to date. Big fan here, keep up the excellent work!
Thanks, will try
Has anyone ever fall out the honeymoon phase of watch collecting? I have like 9 watches, mostly under 1k range and a tudor. Had the chance to buy a rolex but I just stopped caring for watches and got obsessed with investing... instead of spending that 11k on a rolex, I just put in a 5% apy savings account instead. Lately I barely even wear watches anymore.
Such an informative video as always and so well presented - thanks Mike for all your work
thanks for watching 😀
I have an Omega Planet Ocean cal.8900 and a Tudor BB41 Monochrome. I like both of these watches but I much prefer the Omega brand. In fact, the Monochrome is the only Tudor that speaks to me while there are several Omega watches that interest me, starting with the Aqua Terra 41mm cal.8900.
Deeply insightful! I browsed through the website of Omega and I came across half a dozen models that I felt like buying and actually ended up buying 3. I sold 2 of them for a major haircut and kept the one that meant the most to me which is the James Bond No Time To Die Seamaster because I’m a big fan of Daniel Craig. I’m not sure if I will ever buy another Omega ever again.
Another excellent analysis. I own Omega and Tudor watches, dating from the 70’s until 2023. I have exactly the same opinion as you do. Both are excellent, but Omega is more luxurious. No question in my mind.
I see the big hype now being Longines, and how they are going after Tudor. Maybe based on the breadth of their lineup, but Tudor still makes better watches IMO. Keep up the great work.
The new Omega Aqua Terra 41 is just a perfect 1 watch collection watch imo
It sure seems to be a crowd pleaser
@@Mike.thiswatchthatwatch This is a bit puzzling to me - I love the design and how it looks, everyone seems to like it too but Omega so far doesn't seem to sell them like I thought they would....it's strange, such a beauty, everyone loves it and very few actually buy it....
A high polished tool watch. Not ideal.
Mike the simple answer to your question is . . . drum roll . . .
the watch company that provides watches for a different type of customer, a new niche.
My question to you is, what other possible niches are there that could be clearly delineated ?
Really a great analysis - cannot disagree with anything yu say. As a 5 Omega owner, I may be biased, but, I own them for the reasons you mentioned. Thank you!
“Tudor is for the IPA kind of crowd”. Love that, currently drinking a Brewdog IPA 🍺
LOL i see this.
Yet again, a knockout video and absolutely on point! 😊
My two cents: I really admire Omega as a brand for all the reasons you mentioned and wish one day to own one. Yet currently, Tudor makes the watch I want to own - Black Bay 54. Should we be graced with a slightly downsized Seamaster 300 Heritage, that would be very compelling!
Please keep the content coming 🙏
thank you kindly 😃
I'm in the market for an Omega Seamaster 300m, green. Tudor was my #2.
To answer your final question, I think the next in line is Longines, which I think is seen in the swatch group as the equivalent of what Tudor is with respect to Rolex. Longines is kind of the lower omega that know has to compete with tudor to keep omega against rolex and not the lower tudor.
Another excellent one thanks. And for your concluding question Longines looks on track to be the next one in Switzerland - but I wouldn’t underestimate what Citizen is doing for a few years… Japan is back !
Analysis on point as always.
To give my shot on your question at the end, it's not the same space as it's already more expensive and luxury, but I think a brand poised for a resurgence in hype and excitement to re-establish themselves strongly is IWC. They're gradually showing signs of life again and innovating with high-quality pieces and taking some swings. I think they're about to make a hit.
I currently own the Pelagos FXD MN, the Black Bay 58, the Black bay Bronze, the Seamaster Nekton and the Speedy Broad Arrow 57. I love Tudor, and might pick that as my one and only brand if I had to. It’s a great combination of price, toughness and good looks. But Omega has better finishing throughout all of its watches, over and above Tudor. If I were Tudor, I would be careful not to increase my prices up to Omega’s level, as I think Tudor probably loses in a head to head comparison.
Well done Mike, you really are providing excellent content for your viewers!!! Thank you!! And to answer your question, in that price range, probably Zenith. But LVMH has the marketing dollars, so we will see a big push with Tag Heuer coming on strong!!
Ironically both of these brands have more heritage than Tudor has now or Omega had twenty years ago.
Fully agree that Tag is well positioned to fill Tudor’s position. And LVMH seems to be taking watches serious at last. Maybe time to scour the market for some of their classics.
Thanks. Zenith? I can see that happen for sure 😃
In response to your question, Mike: I think it will be the rebooted Universal Geneve, once Breitling rolls them out.
If they don't screw it up....
Brilliant take this. Although that shouldnt come as a surprise with this channelZ Thank you for explaining the parallels between today’s Tudor and Omega’s trajectory in the 90s and 2000s. Will Tag or Longines be next? My money’s on Longines as they have access to the engineering might that Omega has access to (ETA) and a massive treasure trove of potential inspiration in their back catalog.
Will we see a Metas certified Longines in the near future as Omega shifts towards the even more stringent Laboratoire de Precision standards? Surely thats gotta be at least part of the plan, no?
Where did you get that Omega was shifting towards the Laboratoire de Précision Standard ? 🤔🧐 I would like to know what is more stringent about it and in which respect it would be better than METAS ?
@@patrickjean-philippe7679 they did set it up, the same way they did Metas in 2015.
Omega's CoAxial movement
is a game changer. the 8900
is the most accurate chronometer out there,
super low friction means
time between servicing is double
and it makes for an amazing time piece
If Omega are that confident in their movement and have increased prices significantly they should offer a 10 year warranty / service interval.
Moronic 😂
Definitely ☝🏽😬
@@ZenMasterT lol you’re incorrect. Rolex has the better movement but the CoAxial is outstanding as well.
I love both Omega and Tudor and I think Longines should be up there with both. Great brand with a focus on maintaining watches affordable.
I bought Tudor GMT instead of Omega 300 M. Was seriously debating.
I believe either Longines or TAG will take Tudors place in the future. Both have great heritage, they've launched incredible pieces in 2023/2024 and people are talking about them more and more.... Especially Longines, it's incredible value for money... The other well established luxury brands either have their own niche (take Cartier, JLC) or are already priced at the same level as Omega (for example IWC)... If Longines continues releasing bangers and getting better finishing, I believe they can become incredibly popular
No doubt Longines have stepped up and have improved their reputation in the west lately. The Zulu Time has superior finishing to most Tudor offerings to my eyes, but Longines don't plan on increasing their prices as much as others apparently, which means they could potentially fall further behind in terms of status and brand perception.
@@lamentate07 true, I haven’t considered the price aspect and how it might still be considered a “duty free airport brand”. It’s quite hard to change their perception in the west but with good marketing and maybe also trying more “luxurious” materials (for example, titanium) would be a way to change that. My prediction for TAG is of course directly related to the LVMH group and how they’re genius marketers. There is the new F1 sponsorship deal, a lot of people talked about the collab with Kith (of course extremely overpriced but appreciated by the fashionistas and created buzz)… their latest Carreras are fire too I think…
I think Longines is a good bet and a shrewd call you’ve made
heuer just needs to drop that "tag". Heuer catalogue is INCREDIBLE!
@@CraigPowers-b8p I was looking for a diver with an internal bezel and the same day I’ve tried the JLC Polaris (beautiful watch) and the new Longines legend diver that has a similar design language… and, oh boy, the Longines was love at first sight for a fraction of the price… it’s sporty, chic and vintagey at the same time… incredible piece… of course from a horological standpoint it’s clearly an inferior piece but design and finishing is clearly on par
Breitling with Universal Geneva is the next one to look out for in my humble opinion. I own a few classic models and UG name and history offers a different proposition to by now boring Navitimers and other offerings from Breitling
I owned a Black Bay GMT and it was a solid watch. But I flipped it after 6 months. I own the Seamaster 300m and the Planet Ocean. Both of them are a cut above the Black Bay. Its sometimes difficult to see on youtube, but in real life you notice the quality materials and details more on the Omegas.
Except for the bezel action of the seamaster 300m. It’s slippery and feels and sounds cheap. Tudor’s bezel action is a lot better. I didn’t get the seamaster 300m because it floats on my wrist due to the open caseback, such a shame it looks very nice!
The Tudor vs Omega fight can be summed up in one watch: The 1908 rice-grain blue guilloche.
Rolex has pulled away from Omega to the point of being able to command a price 1.5 times or twice as much as Omega. Rolex just assumed it has pulled so far ahead of Omega, that Tudor can take up the battle now.
Rolex just assumed it has pulled so far ahead that it can command $30k for the 1908. Actual result: The 1908 is NOT sold out. Customers aren't queuing up to lap it up. The 1908 is an awesome watch but not awesome at 30k. It's just average at that price.
Eventually inflation will catch up and make that watch reasonable as well. But today, Tudor has a long way to go.
@@dainiu TUDOR SALES ARE DOWN😂😂😂😂😂😂 AND TUDOR IS TRASH 😂😂😂😂😂😂
As usual, incisive analysis. Thank you! Unrelated, if of interest to you, would you share your take on Oceanus? This integrates the quartz-mechanical dimension, but also the new Manta line raises additional questions.
On point to where Omega and Tudor are positioned. I own a Rolex Sub and it has taken the diver slot. I now am looking for a robust sport/military chronograph. The Sinn EZM 13.1 is currently at the top of the list. With the Omega Speedmaster 3861 down the road. I bounce around with Tudor as they have exciting offerings from the BB 58, BB chrono, to the LHD Pelagos, which makes me undecided about Tudor all together, in the end, sticking to my Rolex to save money for something different and special - a Sinn!
Sinn for the winn 😀
This is a good take on both brands. I have the Ed White Speedy and it is my favorite Omega - someone mentioned below in the comments that Omega has not been doing well with bracelets, the Ed White has one of the best (most comfortable) bracelets to rival the Rolex sub oyster (the straight lugs help). For Tudor, I want the blue Pelagos FXD on a NATO strap - it will be the next watch I buy, and a great everyday watch.
Ed white? Very priviledged you. I'm jealous 👍👍👍👍
Excellent and interesting video thanks. My $.02: I see the difference in terms of style. Tudor makes relatively conventionally styled timepieces, as does Rolex. Omega styles their watches differently. They have few icons (really only the Speedmaster), and have so many variations that when one says Seamster, for instance, not one image appears. I’ve wanted an Omega for years, but just haven’t found one classically styled. I own 2 Tudors, and 3 Rolexes. All the best.
Well thought out analysis and perspective. I quite enjoy listening to your design & marketing points, and continue to learn alot from your analysis. I look at Tudor as a "teenager who has entered young adulthood in its 20's". More & more Tudor is focusing on tool watches, whereas, Rolex seems preoccupied in moving up market. I want to ask you how far will Rolex let Tudor be independent and develop their own branding and design cues before Rolex feels Tudor is a threat to Mother Rolex itself in the tool watch space? In other words, is Tudor free to compete anyway it wants to, or does Mother Rolex get to vote on its next watch releases?
I have a bone to pick with Omega. Omega’s bracelets are almost like Grand Seiko. “Close enough, they’ll still buy it.” Somewhere, I picture a mechanical engineer and a product manager that are overpaid, resting on their laurels.
Tudor, in addition to Metas, has steadily improved their bracelets.
No. It’s an MBA who told the suits they could save money buying the same links in bulk. Probably sourced from CHN. Pathetic.
Agree on their bracelets 😀
Except maybe the new speedy bracelet. That’s good
Another sound video and well constructed argument
The statistics speak for themselves as you say
With the advent of METAS for Tudor this makes them compelling indeed
I like many omega watches and have owned a couple but I’m not sure I’d get another
Tudor is compelling but I still haven’t discovered a model I really love. It would have been the FXD chrono but no bracelet option is a deal breaker for me
This is such a fascinating comparison Mike. My first Tudor is the Ranger. I think you nailed it with Tudor speaks to the younger generation. As a millennial, I find Omega to be too luxurious and for older people.
Thanks for your analysis. I'm trying to wrap my brain around branding and business strategies in the watch industry, and your talks are a big help.
happy to provide something you find worthy of your time 😃
Outstanding market analysis. It will be interesting to see if Tudor’s “settling in” toward the luxury segment will continue to focus so much as they have on the Black Bay line, or branch out. I think they’ll need to refocus on a new line to avoid it becoming stale. To your question, I have no idea which company fills their slot, but it’ll be interesting
Rolex is stale but it does not impeach them to be the most desired watch brand in the world.
Another great video. Very interesting analysis. Thanks Mike.
you are welcome. cheers 😃
I have the Aqua Terra but have four Tudor. Pelagos blue date, Pro, BB41 and BBgmt. And looking at three other models
The fact that people are comparing Tudor to Omega reflects Swatch’s mismanagement of the brand.
or Rolex’s powerful marketing pixie dust
Swatch is definitely dropping the ball. I've seen some very bad QC issues. A Seamaster with hair found under the crystal and lume falling out of the bezel. I guess Omega is too busy ass kissing those lame ass brand ambassadors that don't give 2 shits about Omega and paying for that awful marketing. That's straight up embarrassing. Omega isn't the great brand they once were unfortunately anyone who doesn't notice the brand has fell off are either blind or don't want to admit it
@@lonewolfemcquade8133sales say quite the opposite.
@@lonewolfemcquade8133 Tudor GMT date wheel issues? Pelegos 39 bezel insert numbers falling out? Please…Omega quality, movements, and finishing is Premier League…Tudor Championship League
Swatch is not the best owner of Omega is my contention. Not anymore 😃
Superb video. if the swatch group wanted, they could have other brands that went after Tudor.
Personally, I think Longines are planning to take that step up the ladder.
@@SaintWill70💯 - being in Swatch is a huge negative.
Mike…I think your overarching thesis around brand rejuvenation for both Tudor and Omega is well thought out and indisputable. I do think Tudor is self limited by Rolex…Omega doesn’t have that limitation. Additionally, as you discussed…Tudors lineup is limited (primarily BB dive watches)…and I think this limits their appeal. It’s also a very masculine brand (which is totally fine) but also misses a fast growing female watch buying segment (see Cartier). Omega is better positioned with woman…Longines is also for that matter.
Omega's central tourbillon is imo the aesthetically most pleasing way of fitting a tourbillon onto the front of a watch. Tudor has nothing close to it in its lineup. The Speedmaster is along with the Daytona t h e iconic sports chronograph. I wonder how big Tudor's appeal would be, if they had no affiliation with Rolex and their designs would have no inspiration/ressemblance with older Rolex' aesthetics...but Omega isn't as good marketing-wise. I had no idea how deep their involvement in Olympic time measurements actually goes until I saw the very recent time & tide video. They can still capitalize on their branding from the last century that cemented them as a houldhold name in the heads of older folks...but I wonder how they want to capture the following generations...great video as always:)
I think Omega should offer a Customer Configuration option to their customers to allow the selection of a range of movements, dials, bracelets/straps, etc… for each model. This would be the next step up ☝🏽
E.g. Todor Pelegos, which is a great watch. However, compare it to a Scurfa D1 titanium. Is the difference in price tool functionality
Or name on the dial(luxury)?
Very interesting video, thank you. I was thinking of the same thing recently my comments as follow: Still some Omega models compete with Rolex models so some still think of Rolex vs Omega, but disagree: Tudor will beat Omega, the production numbers doesnt reflect the desirability and Tudor is going to attract more people in the coming years. Not to mention that from personal experience Omega has more QC issues than Tudors (at least the ones i owned).
But only time will tell 😊
Your Videos are great 👍, in which category would you place Omega's Constellation Line?
There’s an old Tudor ad that illustrates a woman horseback riding & I still think that’s the vibe. It’s practical, easy for everyday wear, good price point.
In a UK AD it would be:
Rolex
Omega
Tudor
Breitling (Who really need new management/ownership)
TAG Heuer (Gifts for wives and sons)
Grand Seiko seem to have messed up crashing the party IMO, which is a shame..
Hi, good morning, could you do a review on watches made by Ball ?
No one seems to be interested in doing a review on them ? Your vids are very good, great info content. Ciao
Omega & Tudor are both terrific timepieces. You should purchase what you love and can afford…it’s that simple
Omega tends to dilute their offerings with too many variations.
Well, let’s agree that most of us is referring to Rolex for every move or initiative for any watch brand on earth and we know why, but is that right? Not at all because the big groups like SWATCH, LVMH etc are following different pathways and strategies to reach their objectives (not just to be another Rolex). I can see LONGINES with all the support from its history, achievements and Group management will be a serious player in this industry. Who believes that Tudor can beat OMEGA believes that Rolex is competing with the Holey Trinity brands for example. However, we should stop emotions to cheat us and start monitoring things on scale of 10 years at least. Love and buy what you like regardless market statistics and social media. Enjoy your experience (up & down)
Omega has a brand recognition and timeless models than Tudor can only aspire to. In terms of sales, is number 3 vs number 17 in Swiss watch sale numbers. Outside the BB and Pelagos they have boring models. Longines is far superior to Tudor in some respects and has a much larger market share. The METAS qualification is sort of nice but irrelevant to most customers.
I like your style of videos. Much appreciated even if we do not have the same opinion. Cheers.
No, because Tudor will always be in the shadow of Rolex no matter what people say, also, Omega has the co-axial movement, Tudor doesn’t. Lastly, Grand Seiko should be in this conversation.
This huge line up of Omega watches is actually what I don’t like about Omega
I really like the huge Omega catalog as it provides me with so many options to choose from. It’s great. The next step up would be to offer customer configuration options which would be even better ☝🏽
I've been watching Omega for years waiting for "the one" hoping to get a co-axial movement in my watch. Huge numbers of California dials, dials like a ploughed field, dials like a badly ploughed field not to mention vastly overpriced plastic quartz watches. Now we have the Aqua Terra with a plain black dial, superb. Could be the cost of all the inventory they are carrying or could be they are just taking their customers for mugs. They have just increased the price dramatically for no reason than to make more profit, that's their prerogative, but they aren't getting it from me. Tudor might though if they provide "the one" . Bremont is very similar to Omega, for many years they've had watches which were nearly there at a price I was prepared to pay. The watches are not nearly there now but the prices have had a huge hike.
As the price gap has narrowed a bit, do you think the recent decline of Rolex prices poses a threat to the value of Tudor (new and pre-owned)?
No - The distance is still far too great 🙂
In this category I prefer the Tudor monochrome. But I was so disappointed by their customer service. I recently went to an AD and asked to try the new burgundy/black GMT. They had one in the display but were out of stock and refused to let me try it.
I was very shocked and disappointed. I guess they are behaving like Rolex.
Whenever I go to a Cartier, JLC or Omega AD I am well treated, and these are watches twice as expensive than the aforementioned Tudor.
I guess I will just go for the Longines GMT ( another place where I feel like I am treated as a customer )
Shame to hear about the customer service 😳
Several people have mentioned Longines as being the next one to step up. But, would they have to go upmarket to do it?
They seem to dominate the $1K-$3K entry-level luxury range. And moving upmarket could impede on other Swatch Group brands, like Omega.
So, that’s why I think their growth may be limited. But, who knows?
According to the current CEO, they don't have any intention to move more upmarket, but they are definitely following other luxury watch brands by adding more precious metals to some of their models to increase their value/price.
I can't see Longines succeeding by moving too far up the value chain. They were a dominant force on the same level as Rolex and Omega back in their heyday, but now they are just viewed as a quality entry level luxury/premium watch brand. If they keep jacking up prices, they will no longer be seen as a legitimate value proposition.
Their main challenge now will be to maintain their reputation in the east and improve their brand image in the west, particularly in North America where they are viewed as budget luxury or a premium mall watch.
I think Longines would like to but are having a really hard time. They've nothing but declined over the last 5-8 years unfortunately 😃
I recently was in the market for a dive watch. It came down to the Pelagos vs Seamaster. I really only like the look of the retro Seamasters. It came down to the size, titanium and look of the Pelagos 39. To be honest, the price between the two was not very relevant to me. Which brand I thought would impress more people also has little to do with my decision making.
It'll be fun to see Tudor move up the value ladder. People who bought and love their old BB's, BB58's and etc. and retain them for 30-40 years will have wonderful vintage pieces from the olden times. Maybe we'll look back on them like we do 5 digit Rolexes today.
Enjoy the climate crisis in 40 years
I think they will look at them like we look at Longines from 30 to 40 years ago. Definitely not like we look at vintage Rolex. Very different categories.
I’ve had the Pelagos and BB58 in hand for a while at the AD, on two separate occasions. There’s no doubt in my mind that Tudor is not at the same level as Omega. The fit and finish of the Tudor isn’t at Omega’s level. Tudor quality and finish is more like Christopher Ward, and is excellent, but not Omega level. And that’s fine because Tudor’s are lower priced.
This dude’s takes always shut me up. His opinions are so wholesome and convincing you just can’t argue !
You really should. They are after all just my opinions 😃
I would like to think, that Longines is next, although we should have a look on Citizen or Seiko from the same perspective as you have now applied on Omega and Tudor.
A lot of people seem to be rooting for longines
I think Breitling since 2016-2017 with George Kern on the helm is on that roll/ journey now, setting up a big but streamlined catalog with recognizable design that are timeless, like Rolex. One can clearly see that they are going more back to their root designs with the Chronomat bracelet, their Premier line and their revamped Navitimer line, and more but with a modern approach. They also focus on bringing the B01 to the «top» watch in each line-up to signal that all their watches are almost equal to each other, just different use-cases, again taking a large out of the Rolex playbook. They have their endurance and emergency as a more niche offering. They also made Tudors movement available by sharing their B01, hopefully they will take on a bigger partnership with Kenissi.
Edit: With Omega now settled, I also think SWATCH is focusing more on Longines now with their Zulu Time, Legend Diver, HQ GMT, their new GADA 38/41 Conquest, and more.
I love the 00 Gundam in the background! On topic - Tudor is great, but they will never reach Omega. Omega has far richer legacy and achievements and quality overall. Also omega aims to move upmarket. What can happen is that Tudor may eventually occupy the place where Omega is NOW in the market. But at that time, Omega will still be above Tudor.
Gundam for the win 😃
Interesting video but Omega will always be an "alpha-dream brand" for some. Tudor will always be a beta Rolex. Tudor makes some beautiful watches. Other brands also offer beautiful watches for even less money. When Omega announces a watch, the market takes notice. When Tudor announces a new watch, some people who cannot afford a Rolex or Omega notice but the market does not.
Interesting, I bought a seamaster 300m in 2002 (£985 or so), I'm back in the market and find myself drawn to Tudor party because I want something different to Omega. I think it proves the argument that Tudor is the old omega.
Great vid..honestly..don’t think Tudor is even in the same conversation or anywhere near the level of Omega but as you always say..”buy what you like”
bingo 😃
You didn't mention Tudor's investment into pro road cycling which does not come cheap. They are already competing in the Giro. If they make waves in the TDF going forward that will have a big effect surely. Who's next?? Not a clue. Longines have been upping their game but they will be restrained by the Swatch group from outdoing Omega.
As you have mentioned, as the voice of wisdom as always, the problem omega faces is something like “paradox of choices”. Abundance of models makes the brand less recognizable and less focused on quality. On the other hand, Rolex focuses on less models and refining them to excellence.
Bingo 😃
the Problem about tudor will always be the majority opinion of people, who are into watches, will always say, you only wear a tudor cause you had not the money for a rolex. Thats sad cause especially the new black bay with this insane good movement and on the jubilee looks awesome for 4500 bucks. Also tudor watches getting expensiver every new release and rolex prices are going down, especially on the greymarket and they getting more available. So if tudor hits the 5k, you literaly can save up another 2 or 3k and buy a brand new rolex perpetual 41 or Explorer 2
At 3:42 there is a speedmaster with a date on a small left dial with a red circle indicator. Which one is that?
Omega Speedmaster moonphase
I love Tudor, I have two, but they need to develop non BB lines. They totally missed the integrated bracelet craze by ignoring their Royal line. That was a mistake.
Agreed! I have one Tudor, the 2022 Ranger. It's a magnificent watch, but the Tudor that never gets talked about. That said, under the radar works fur me just fine.
Your insights are appreciated 😊
thanks 😃
I like some of the Tudor pieces, I’ve owned the BB41 and BB58 and felt the value for money there. They are relatively basic though, both technically and in finish. Omega, especially the higher end pieces, are far superior to anything Tudor has to offer.