The soundtrack before Greg walks in to call the election for mencken (Kendall's departure) is so fkn good. It really gives the vibe of honorably marching into certain death, a doom with no escape. Only there's nothing honorable about this situation, and everyone there could have done everything to avoid this outcome.
This whole episode feels like a metaphor for nuclear war. Greg is Stanislav Petrov, those staff members are the people in Oppenheimer’s speech, the CEbros are generals, and Mencken is fallout
For me, what this shows, is how power works, in corporations and in States. You do as you are told. Most of us do. Some might question orders, implicitly hesitate or even refuse, but most of us will obey. And by doing as we are told, we think we can safely avoid responsibility. In fact, by themselves, Kendall and Rome are just pathetic, idiosyncratic fools. But thanks to their name, their wealth, their prestige, and all the people and resources that follow, they influence people and politics to a high or even critical degree.
This show made me realise how much ceo and millionaires are people like us, and not this "genius, different from avarege joe". Some may actually have made their furtune by actually being smart, but a lot, and in the series the roys siblings, just have the "luck" to be logans son's.
It’s comforting now but back in 2020 I actually thought this was how the US election was going to go: Trump just bulling his way through democracy’s soft guardrails, talking down anyone who said he couldn’t, and generating enough uncertainty in the public that any concerted efforts to stop it would be unsuccessful or, at best, tied up in court forever while he continued to sit in the seat. Fortunately, the guardrails of democracy weren’t as “soft” as I initially assumed, and there were a lot of people who were smart enough to stand in a room with him and just say “no” no matter how aggressive he got or how many threats were thrown their way. It doesn’t mean it can’t happen again, it’s not like there’s NO danger of this sort of thing happening, but this episode would have hit a lot different for me if it had aired in 2021 rather than 2023.
No ones commenting how literally Tom decided to call the vote for Meneken to spite Shiv for downplaying their relationship. It just goes to show personal affiliations in an oligarchial setting have ripple affects on other people unknowingly.
Same with Kendall. He found out Shiv lied to him, and then he got mad and went against her in a split second without thinking about it from a larger perspective. This entire sequence is "do I do things for me, or do I do things for the nation"
The exchange between Greg and Jess, though small, was such a good demonstration of the banality of evil. Normal people don’t consider themselves part of cruelty/ evil because they’re “just doing a job” or “just pressing a button”, and “it’ll happen either way, if not me, someone else will”. A bunch of people with Greg’s mindset coming together and all ignoring responsibility is how reeaaallly horrifically fucked up things happen.
Worth considering that she works for Kendall, who often positions himself (with questionable validity) as the "progressive" voice within Waystar... So it makes sense that she can believe herself to have some moral high ground on that front
@@AUMOTmusic that moment was not about moral high ground lol Jess was clearly scared (and so was like everyone else) and was futilely trying to stop Greg
She’s hardly rich, and doesn’t actually work for Waystar, but for Kendall. Regardless of whether she’s morally superior, she’s the one who’s impacted the most in the reality of Mencken becoming president, due to her being a woman of colour. Greg would never realise this, being so incredibly privileged as a wealthy, white man.
@@cecilabbott6092 I get that, and you're generally not wrong, but she was employed by Waystar for much of the show. It's like working for News Corp and then acting surprised when Fox News endorses a rightwing maniac. It's just business as usual, someone who truly cares about progressive values should not be there in the first place.
I mean. Say Tom says he won’t do it. Or Greg. Or whoever. Roman just walks down to the studio himself and orders them to call it. All of the tentative and rattled facial expressions are just them realizing the magnitude of what they’re doing, combined with how powerless they are against it.
@@thejfoshow1320 easy to say. You think everyone who was hired to work those jobs are prepared to lose it on the spot without a second thought? Doubt it That’s the whole point of the absurdity that Kendall and Roman made it to the point of being able to make executive ATN decisions. They’re like little kids with immense power
@@jloo6822 I agree it won’t happen, but that would stop or at least heavily delay it as they rely on their media expertise. A president is nothing without the army and police. And a ceo is nothing without workers who will do as they say. But yeah it’s a moot point
does anyone know which particular song this is from the soundtrack? I've skimmed through all of season 4 and 3 and cant find it or missed it lol. those horns are amazing
i don't really know much about politics, let alone american politics. can someone explain to me in simple terms how the roy siblings/ATN can change or manipulate the outcome of the election by calling the votes for mencken? didn't the people already vote? i thought all that was left to do is to count the votes. how does it change the outcome, if ATN says that mencken won? what if, by the end, jiménez had more votes?
Like they said in the show, it will go to court and the real decision will come out but that will take months. They called it so other news organizations feel compelled to also call it but it probably won't hold up. Those votes probably swung towards Jimenez and if that is the case, it will have blow back for Tom, the roys, ATN and the company as a whole. Tom will probably be the fall guy and the company's credibility will be hurt
It was about creating perception. Based on what we saw in the show, the election was going to be decided in the courts. Having Mencken deemed the "winner" by the media puts pressure on two fronts 1. Jimenez. The season plays a lot with the election of 2000. George Bush was seen as the winner with Al Gore trying to upend that in the courts by fighting to continue recounts beyond the drop dead date. In the year 2023, it's hard to remember but the idea of the "good of the country" had real sway with Gore. He eventually conceded believing that dragging things on even further wasn't in the best interest of the United States. Jimenez, now being viewed as the "loser" who is trying to upend a result he doesn't like, is now placed in a similar situation. 2. The Courts. Judges are often mistaken for robots where facts come in and neutral verdicts come out. It's simply not true. Judges are as political as everyone else and they are deeply responsive to public pressure and criticism. This has been well documented in American history and political theory. The notion that the court would allow certain voters to re-vote knowing that they would decide the election is unprecedented and would be incredibly hard to justify. If the perception is that Jimenez is just playing sore loser rather than a truly even playing field, it becomes even harder for them to grant such a wildly controversial decision. So does it decide the election? No, but it puts Mencken in the best possible spot for the fight ahead.
They basically try to make a paralel to Trump, calling him a fascist, a nazi, all that stuff. T The thing is the show is made by hardcore leftists, so they don’t realise that “Orange man bad” is basically a meme at this point, and his period wasn’t as bad as CNN predicted it to be, so the show comes out as pretentious
@@felipemontero1087Mencken isn't a stand-in for Trump, he's an omen for what might come next. Most of the characters in the show are loosely based on multiple real people, but they aren't intended to be ciphers.
@@duewest1987 I’m pretty sure that all the things said about Mencken where said about Trump, line from line. And funnily the show never points at the problem about communism, is almost as t where the best alternative according to the writers
Let's be honest, the reason why Roman insists to have Mecken as the next President because he has a crush on him. Remember their conversation on the bathroom back in Season 3?
People mad that Shiv betrays Kendall for “being jealous” in the finale, but forget that two episodes before, Ken basically does the same thing by calling Mencken which also affects the whole country lel
I suddenly realize that ROMAN is the loose cannon ! 'HE" is psycho ! His brother Is a lot more calculating. Kendal has a thought process that ROMAN does not ! THIS makes ROMAN the Power player !
Roman wasn't the loose cannon in this particular scene. Mencken is an extremely pragmatic decision for ATN. But yeah he is still a loose cannon who pretty much goes on a fire/rant spree whenever he feels upset. Though you can say that about the other siblings too.
Perhaps at the time, but look how good supporting Donald Trump and the “Stop The Steal” narrative did for Fox News. The resulting litigation is massacring the company.
All the clips on youtube of this show are very hammy and delicious, and the soundtrack is fire, but I can't invest into a whole ass other show to watch right now. Could someone explain the gravity of this situation to me like I'm not 38 and still living with my parents?
It's election night, Mencken is a kind of a fictional Donald Trump, and Roman (guy in the white) wants to call Arizona early, which is the state that will call the election early. He's basically lying to the nation and if Mencken wins, the country will be more divided than ever, but all the siblings also win his assistance in blocking the villain of the season. So win/lose situation.
The 3 people arguing in the beginning are siblings in charge of a multi billion dollar fox news type operation. One of the siblings named roman used the news network to push a fascist running for president named Jaryd Mencken to become more popular. In this scene roman has convinced his brother Kendall to falsely call the election as Mencken victory
@@iamcase1245 if you're an American, that's your owners that held all that control. don't pat yourself on the back too hard, you aren't sharing in any of that control.
Its amazing that they survived the fascist firing squad that Shiv carried on about for 4 seasons. It seemed so clear that Mencken was going to kill everyone that didn't support him. This was a major plot twist.
@@amy-cp1rw That is what I mean, why add music to every serious moment in the series? As if the viewer cannot tell that the moment is serious without supporting music.
@@special1740 Have you watched this show? Because the compositions and sound coordination are just as much part of the series as the cinematography. Additionally, you're just wrong -- The whole show is well capable of delivering tons of quiet, serious moments and you would be insane to take away the OST from moments like these.
The irony here is Mencken represents Trump and the fear of a Trump presidency only to be later confirmed that his foreign policy was the most peaceful of any modern president while all of the other safer candidates push the world into WWIII
I know we see Greg and Jess talking in the background a lot, but their conversation here as the only relatively normal people was super interesting.
Greg is definitely not normaln anymore
@@zanlenarcic4993 was he normal ever ? pretty calculating for a guy in his 20s
The soundtrack before Greg walks in to call the election for mencken (Kendall's departure) is so fkn good. It really gives the vibe of honorably marching into certain death, a doom with no escape. Only there's nothing honorable about this situation, and everyone there could have done everything to avoid this outcome.
You mean they should have rigged the election?
Greg is a great character but is never once honorable.
Funny, earlier in the episode Tom said it is his call cause hes the head of ATN lol.
The look on the staffs faces.
and on all our faces.
This whole episode feels like a metaphor for nuclear war. Greg is Stanislav Petrov, those staff members are the people in Oppenheimer’s speech, the CEbros are generals, and Mencken is fallout
every single person was facepalming
@@dandyman204tbf the fallout of thos type of thing and the kids attitud is modern America
For me, what this shows, is how power works, in corporations and in States. You do as you are told. Most of us do. Some might question orders, implicitly hesitate or even refuse, but most of us will obey. And by doing as we are told, we think we can safely avoid responsibility. In fact, by themselves, Kendall and Rome are just pathetic, idiosyncratic fools. But thanks to their name, their wealth, their prestige, and all the people and resources that follow, they influence people and politics to a high or even critical degree.
This show made me realise how much ceo and millionaires are people like us, and not this "genius, different from avarege joe".
Some may actually have made their furtune by actually being smart, but a lot, and in the series the roys siblings, just have the "luck" to be logans son's.
It’s comforting now but back in 2020 I actually thought this was how the US election was going to go: Trump just bulling his way through democracy’s soft guardrails, talking down anyone who said he couldn’t, and generating enough uncertainty in the public that any concerted efforts to stop it would be unsuccessful or, at best, tied up in court forever while he continued to sit in the seat.
Fortunately, the guardrails of democracy weren’t as “soft” as I initially assumed, and there were a lot of people who were smart enough to stand in a room with him and just say “no” no matter how aggressive he got or how many threats were thrown their way.
It doesn’t mean it can’t happen again, it’s not like there’s NO danger of this sort of thing happening, but this episode would have hit a lot different for me if it had aired in 2021 rather than 2023.
Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil
Give it a read
@@langa77777 Yea it's a classic, and I like it, but it gas gained a lot of criticism, some of which I agree with.
No ones commenting how literally Tom decided to call the vote for Meneken to spite Shiv for downplaying their relationship. It just goes to show personal affiliations in an oligarchial setting have ripple affects on other people unknowingly.
Because that's not why he calls it. It's literally not his call. It's not in Tom's DNA to go against his actual bosses.
Same with Kendall. He found out Shiv lied to him, and then he got mad and went against her in a split second without thinking about it from a larger perspective. This entire sequence is "do I do things for me, or do I do things for the nation"
Kendall found out (in the end) that his siblings "do things for me (themselves)" and in the end their shareholders.
Tom is an empty suit during election day ffs, he only does what the Roys tell him to do, get a grip.
Roman and Kendall ordered him to do so. They are Co-CEOs, while Shiv has no position in the company
Greg came a long way from puking in a costume to being involved in the biggest power play.
The exchange between Greg and Jess, though small, was such a good demonstration of the banality of evil. Normal people don’t consider themselves part of cruelty/ evil because they’re “just doing a job” or “just pressing a button”, and “it’ll happen either way, if not me, someone else will”. A bunch of people with Greg’s mindset coming together and all ignoring responsibility is how reeaaallly horrifically fucked up things happen.
one thing that I don't get is: how can announcing poll results be evil?
@@mdbrableif they hadn't called Mencken then there mightve been a revote as almost 100000 ballots got burnt in a state that leaned left
0:23 'no one cares, whoever that is' lol
Lots of little lines so easily missed 😂
If Elliot wanted to stop Mencken being called he should’ve grabbed Greg and flown away out the window with his ears
Greg: “So Tom just told me, he’s calling it for Mencken.”
Elliot: “yeah, I heard.”
Greg is another hitman from Missisipi along with Pete and Badger and Greg attacks him with Wasabi
Greg's "Oh" after Tom tells him about Menken always gets me lmao
Funny that Jess, a longtime Waystar employee, is not-so-subtly trying to lecture Greg about ethics and accountability..
Yeah tbh that felt out of place…
Worth considering that she works for Kendall, who often positions himself (with questionable validity) as the "progressive" voice within Waystar... So it makes sense that she can believe herself to have some moral high ground on that front
@@AUMOTmusic that moment was not about moral high ground lol Jess was clearly scared (and so was like everyone else) and was futilely trying to stop Greg
She’s hardly rich, and doesn’t actually work for Waystar, but for Kendall. Regardless of whether she’s morally superior, she’s the one who’s impacted the most in the reality of Mencken becoming president, due to her being a woman of colour. Greg would never realise this, being so incredibly privileged as a wealthy, white man.
@@cecilabbott6092 I get that, and you're generally not wrong, but she was employed by Waystar for much of the show. It's like working for News Corp and then acting surprised when Fox News endorses a rightwing maniac. It's just business as usual, someone who truly cares about progressive values should not be there in the first place.
One of the great examples in media of how when ordinary people fail to stand up to power, horrible, horrible things will happen.
I mean. Say Tom says he won’t do it. Or Greg. Or whoever. Roman just walks down to the studio himself and orders them to call it.
All of the tentative and rattled facial expressions are just them realizing the magnitude of what they’re doing, combined with how powerless they are against it.
@@jloo6822the media team could refuse to I suppose
@@thejfoshow1320 easy to say. You think everyone who was hired to work those jobs are prepared to lose it on the spot without a second thought? Doubt it
That’s the whole point of the absurdity that Kendall and Roman made it to the point of being able to make executive ATN decisions. They’re like little kids with immense power
@@jloo6822 I agree it won’t happen, but that would stop or at least heavily delay it as they rely on their media expertise. A president is nothing without the army and police. And a ceo is nothing without workers who will do as they say. But yeah it’s a moot point
does anyone know which particular song this is from the soundtrack? I've skimmed through all of season 4 and 3 and cant find it or missed it lol. those horns are amazing
It’s from season 2, “Kendall’s Departure”
@@jamesoxyer i should've specified the part near the end when mencken gets declared president. those horns aren't part of kendalls departure
Still waiting for my wasabi-lemon LaCroix
Is that Jess, Kendall’s assistant that speaks to Greg in the hallway?
Yup
@@danielninkovic1074Thank you
This episode showed me what the death of democracy looks like.
LMAO 🤣
Can you define democracy?
MUH DEMOCRACY!!!
It's outdated AF...
I can only imagine they might try to replay a january 6th type situation the sameway they replayed 2016 election night
Yeah then we might see a real one
i don't really know much about politics, let alone american politics.
can someone explain to me in simple terms how the roy siblings/ATN can change or manipulate the outcome of the election by calling the votes for mencken?
didn't the people already vote? i thought all that was left to do is to count the votes. how does it change the outcome, if ATN says that mencken won?
what if, by the end, jiménez had more votes?
Like they said in the show, it will go to court and the real decision will come out but that will take months. They called it so other news organizations feel compelled to also call it but it probably won't hold up. Those votes probably swung towards Jimenez and if that is the case, it will have blow back for Tom, the roys, ATN and the company as a whole. Tom will probably be the fall guy and the company's credibility will be hurt
It was about creating perception. Based on what we saw in the show, the election was going to be decided in the courts. Having Mencken deemed the "winner" by the media puts pressure on two fronts
1. Jimenez. The season plays a lot with the election of 2000. George Bush was seen as the winner with Al Gore trying to upend that in the courts by fighting to continue recounts beyond the drop dead date. In the year 2023, it's hard to remember but the idea of the "good of the country" had real sway with Gore. He eventually conceded believing that dragging things on even further wasn't in the best interest of the United States. Jimenez, now being viewed as the "loser" who is trying to upend a result he doesn't like, is now placed in a similar situation.
2. The Courts. Judges are often mistaken for robots where facts come in and neutral verdicts come out. It's simply not true. Judges are as political as everyone else and they are deeply responsive to public pressure and criticism. This has been well documented in American history and political theory. The notion that the court would allow certain voters to re-vote knowing that they would decide the election is unprecedented and would be incredibly hard to justify. If the perception is that Jimenez is just playing sore loser rather than a truly even playing field, it becomes even harder for them to grant such a wildly controversial decision.
So does it decide the election? No, but it puts Mencken in the best possible spot for the fight ahead.
🇺🇸
I didnt understand the whole calling for Mencken drama. Anyone can help?
It would have been like if Fox News declared Trump won the battleground states he didn't actually win in 2020
Declaring the winner of the presidential election. No news organization wants to be wrong but everyone wants to be first to announce
They basically try to make a paralel to Trump, calling him a fascist, a nazi, all that stuff. T
The thing is the show is made by hardcore leftists, so they don’t realise that “Orange man bad” is basically a meme at this point, and his period wasn’t as bad as CNN predicted it to be, so the show comes out as pretentious
@@felipemontero1087Mencken isn't a stand-in for Trump, he's an omen for what might come next. Most of the characters in the show are loosely based on multiple real people, but they aren't intended to be ciphers.
@@duewest1987 I’m pretty sure that all the things said about Mencken where said about Trump, line from line.
And funnily the show never points at the problem about communism, is almost as t where the best alternative according to the writers
Mencken is such a bad guy that even Greg hesitates to as much as inform the crew that the bosses chose him.
Let's be honest, the reason why Roman insists to have Mecken as the next President because he has a crush on him. Remember their conversation on the bathroom back in Season 3?
People mad that Shiv betrays Kendall for “being jealous” in the finale, but forget that two episodes before, Ken basically does the same thing by calling Mencken which also affects the whole country lel
Whatever man, we will always be broken for our no 1 boy no matter how many reasons we find to cope
America decides, more like 3 siblings
It's like watching kids play rock paper scissors for the fate of America...
@@chiedu90069Kids who probably never even finished a game of rock, paper, scissors bc they always forgot the game and just started brawling.
More like America decides by 3 Moronic siblings who never touch grass
I suddenly realize that ROMAN is the loose cannon ! 'HE" is psycho ! His brother Is a lot more calculating. Kendal has a thought process that ROMAN does not ! THIS makes ROMAN the Power player !
Roman wasn't the loose cannon in this particular scene. Mencken is an extremely pragmatic decision for ATN.
But yeah he is still a loose cannon who pretty much goes on a fire/rant spree whenever he feels upset. Though you can say that about the other siblings too.
@@TESkyrimizer mean if the dems win atn would be fucked. Kicked out the press team and the white houses would want to destroy them
Perhaps at the time, but look how good supporting Donald Trump and the “Stop The Steal” narrative did for Fox News. The resulting litigation is massacring the company.
All the clips on youtube of this show are very hammy and delicious, and the soundtrack is fire, but I can't invest into a whole ass other show to watch right now. Could someone explain the gravity of this situation to me like I'm not 38 and still living with my parents?
mencken is the facist politician and the atn announcing that he wins before the ballots are counted fully, would likely make him win
It's election night, Mencken is a kind of a fictional Donald Trump, and Roman (guy in the white) wants to call Arizona early, which is the state that will call the election early. He's basically lying to the nation and if Mencken wins, the country will be more divided than ever, but all the siblings also win his assistance in blocking the villain of the season. So win/lose situation.
Just watch the fucking show
Tree fity
The 3 people arguing in the beginning are siblings in charge of a multi billion dollar fox news type operation. One of the siblings named roman used the news network to push a fascist running for president named Jaryd Mencken to become more popular. In this scene roman has convinced his brother Kendall to falsely call the election as Mencken victory
This has had to be a remake of when Trump got elected right? thats the only election i can think of
Shiv's miserable, lying, faux-moralistic face writ with shock as Roman goes "good stuff, great night" is the most satisfying thing ever 😂
Right lol she’s so moralistic that she ends up trying to get in bed with Mencken for a seat at the table anyways
Americans are so unserious 😂 But still love the show for how entertaining it is. Also the music 🔥
?
Unserious? The US has controlled global politics for 120+ years. Controlled Art and Entertainment for about 80 years. That's serious as serious gets.
@@iamcase1245 if you're an American, that's your owners that held all that control. don't pat yourself on the back too hard, you aren't sharing in any of that control.
But I'm not patting myself on the back. I dont support imperialism. This was about Americans being unserious. How and what is unserious? @@johncra8982
@@johncra8982i’m sure you’re calling all the shots in whatever country you’re from. You sound ignorant.
I think I hate Greg most of all
Its amazing that they survived the fascist firing squad that Shiv carried on about for 4 seasons. It seemed so clear that Mencken was going to kill everyone that didn't support him. This was a major plot twist.
Reminds me of trump
Why background music? It was not possible to show the gravity of situation without music?
its from the actual scene, they can't remove it
@@amy-cp1rw That is what I mean, why add music to every serious moment in the series? As if the viewer cannot tell that the moment is serious without supporting music.
Toto ?! It's called filmMaking.
@@special1740 Have you watched this show? Because the compositions and sound coordination are just as much part of the series as the cinematography. Additionally, you're just wrong -- The whole show is well capable of delivering tons of quiet, serious moments and you would be insane to take away the OST from moments like these.
Is this the first tv show/movie you’ve ever watched?
Thank God Menken won
Jemeniz was boring
he isn't real
Bro lives in the Succession universe
@@ozark7834 true true
For the sake of drama?
The irony here is Mencken represents Trump and the fear of a Trump presidency only to be later confirmed that his foreign policy was the most peaceful of any modern president while all of the other safer candidates push the world into WWIII
It's so good to have shiv put back in place lol