Not only two of the best but two my favorite ASoIaF content creators together, hope to see this collaboration more often. Definitely an interesting topic and some great insights as always. Look forward to seeing more ASoIaF content from you more often again Gray , although I do sympathize with the show over (regardless of opinion on that) and going on 9 years since the last book it is not always easy finding new ASoIaF concepts and theories to discuss but IDG and Lady Gray are some of the best at keeping the ASoIaF discourse and debate going 👏🏻 . Great vid here as usual and look forward to upcoming content on this and IDG channel(s). Let’s hope we get TWoW in 2020 , can’t imagining waiting much longer, the fandom just needs another installment in the ASoIaF book series. From the vid itself definitely liked Robert's idea about fire wights being pretty much singularly focused and driven (lots of textual evidence supporting that) and the fact that Melisandre is likely one , would explain her extremely old age , not needing to eat or sleep much at all , her obsession with finding Azor Ahai and being so long lived has given so much time to study & hone her craft. I also personally like the theory I have heard from Gray before and here again that Mel is probably originally from Westeros , likely north of The Wall and was potentially taken by slavers from Hardhome (or somewhere around there) , she has the red eyes (and red hair) and pale white skin mark of the old gods / Weirwoods. I wonder if that why she has such abilities and so good at accessing visions because she has the mark of and hence was predisposed to old gods magic but was taken and brought up in the faith of R'hllor and eventually spent time in Asshai which could explain why she is so magical and sees so much and why she is more powerful at magical locations in Westeros.
I tend to look at magic ic ASOIAF as being sourced from one of two locations: Fire magic is typically associated with the heavens (the red comet, dragons emerging from the moon egg due to heat from the sun, the black stones from the empire of the dawn) and Ice magic appears to derive from the earth (I include aquatic magic, the magic of the weirwoods, the children, and the others etc.) this parallels lovecraft quite a bit (deep ones vs cosmic gods. one is from deep beneath the earth/ocean the other is from far outer space) and also helps to explain the differences between oily stone (found in places associated with water, jungle, etc) vs dragon fire black stone (primarily found in places like valyria and the lands surrounding ashai, which so far trend towards being associated with fire magic) Both types of stone tend to appear in ancient locations of important magic that is either associated with fire (the cosmic) or ice (the physical/earthly)
My own belief is that it is belief itself which is what gives Melisandre and others magic. Literally, its lots of people believing in something and the Red Priests are able to tap into that because - they're priests. Targaryen blood has magic for the same reason. The reason Dany is able to hatch three dragons is because she became the focus of many people's dreams and desires.
Look at the Others, they are described as alive, not dead. A strange sort of life, elegant, beautiful, *inhuman.* Melisandre is what happens when someone lives for so long that she almost loses everything except the soul thing that drives her, you are absolutely right. Something either burnt out and animated by embers, or another who was always preserved in ice and snow.
and valyrians are described in the same way as well. not to forget the children of the forest. dany has many many "children of the forest" motifs and symbolism than any one else.
Gray Area , very interesting not only that Melisandre is originally Westerosi but the fact that she possibly returned because she was one of those summoned from Asshai during Aegon V's attempts to bring back dragons. With her potentially very old age it could make sense and also she is one of the few people in the current narrative / the narrative's history associated with & likely spent actual time in Asshai. The evidence is light but there is at least that , which is something and could make sense on why she came back full circle being originally from Westeros and returning again from Asshai with nothing in that explanation that does not make sense as of what we know thus far in the narrative.
There was evidence of her being sold in one of the wildling village in the north, and that she could’ve been taken west to Asshai when she was taken to the red temple. Maybe if children were taken to asshai, they were kept in the temple.
I think she was sold in Asshai, and that's why she is "of Asshai": no religion is forbidden in Asshai, so she could just have easily been both Red Priestess and Shadowbinder simultaneously or consecutively without ever having set foot in Volantis
First of all, no where in the novels does it specify that Melisandra was sold into slavery, she could have just as easily been kidnapped into slavery like Tyrion and Penny were in the novels
My theater teacher taught me something that flipped my brain. No one lives their lives thinking they are evil. We all believe we are good and see ourselves as the hero and victim of our own story. Seriously apply it to real people , fleshed out characters , and you will suddenly understand whether they are a hero or victim in their own minds ( and it changes all the time) and you will see them in a much different light.
her problem is forcing her prophecies into fruition. she is trying to make it happen instead of latching on to what is actually unfolding by fate. she jumps to conclusion with stannis and want it to be true. going against vision is her big problem
Ariel Conde There’s no evidence to corroborate what I’m saying but I personally believe that Melisandre’s glamour isn’t making so that she looks like a different person but just a younger version of herself.
@@randomguy4167 It's arguable. But a glamour to make her look like her younger self would probably be cheaper to maintain than one to completely change her appearance so I'm inclined to agree with you.
You could be right but a glamour is exactly the kinda deceptive device that an author can use to hide significant details. Like Mel's red greenseer eyes.
I will say this, I've been on the Fire Wight, idea since her chapter, but Morqorro confirmed it. I believe all the High Priests are Fire Wights, no human can do what he did (float on a piece of driftwood in the middle of the ocean for 10 days with no food or water, then get up and be fine when picked up by Vic, a human would be in intensive care). It would also be a nice mirror to the drowning ceremony of the Ironborn, and what better way to ensure the faith of your High Priests than to have them reborn in such a fashion, look at what it did to the BWB and they weren't even the ones being raised. So, I think it likely happens in a controlled environment, a gentle poison or something and if you rise you are a High Priest, if you don't, well, them's the breaks kid.
I thought Celise became a follower of the red god first. That may have been Mel's in with Stannis. Mel becomes positioned to do whatever she wants at Dragonstone once she has won over Celise. Mel probably showed up at Dragonstone when Stannis was in kings landing. Get Celise hooked and get the night fires into the routine of Dragonstone, then when Stannis gets home, Mel has her feet firmly under the table.
Love this duo for videos!! And @grayarea I still believe Bloodraven is behind the Lord of Light power! Sadly, just showing Bran now being the master behind the events of season 8 would have made it SO much better.
Awesome!!! You and Robert!! Two of my favorites 😍. I patron both of y'all. I want more POV chapters!! Have read one sooo many times!! I think Mel has good intentions, but we know where those lead😊I would describe her as a FANATIC. Reminds me of Catholic school indoctrination.
i like the wildling idea. im rereading ASOS rn and i just got to the part where jon + wildlings and bran +crew are at the tower in the storm. ygritte tells jon "all men must die" weird huh. later in the books, mel tells jon "you know nothing jon snow" which is also weird. theres gotta be something there its killing me
@@OntarioAtOrion rhaegar is dead. but jon gets a vision of his father throught mance. and i have the bad feeling that egg had woken something else, the others rather than dragons and the tragedy of summerhall is more than an accident.
Targaryen Loyalist there was an attempt at summer hall to exchange the life of the baby Rhaella was pregnant with (Rhaegar) for the life of the dragons in the eggs. (Sort of like what happened with Rhago and Dany) but sir Duncan the tall saved Rhaella and hence Rhaegar was born but he found out that if he had died, dragons would have been born again, and that made him sad and he would write sad songs at ruins of summer hall. Lyanna heard the song at tourney at harrenhal and asked him about it and he tells her about how he could have given his life to bring back dragons so it was their mission to help the prophecy bring back dragons. That is a spark for their love and his attempt at bringing the three headed dragon prophecy back. part of the incubation process to turn a stone dragon egg back to life has to do with exchanging life from a pregnant woman’s baby that is about to be born.just a guess but it is called a “song” of ice and fire.
I have a theory for the Azor Ahai Reborn Theory, I think that the prophecy isn't meant for AA to wake dragons and dragonrider but rather to mark the return of Skinchangers and Wargs that have the ability to rule and control the very natural enviroment against conquerors and sely styled tyrants and Melisandre missinterprets these signs in her flames, think about it, why GRRM said that Bran will become King while Jon will become 100 % Azor Ahai Reborn in the books, becouse they mark the return of Skinchangers, Wargs and Greenseers in Westeros which went extinct in the 7 Kingdoms after the First Long Night and the War against the Night's King
there are some desendands of the empire of dawn. daynes, casterlys (never buyed them as first men because of their coloring). and they are connected with yin tar, elric shawdowchaser. and then read the chapter in a game of thrones when dany has fever dreams and "wakes the dragon". and the black dragon in her early dreams could be the spirit of her brother rhaegar who "speaks" with her. there is an image in the world of ice and fire of rhaegar, in the great sept of baelor, armed and armored, and a black dragon ring on his right hand. and rhaegar is likely lefthander. that would fit jons notification that longclaw has its own will when jon holded the sword in the left hand for wellknown reasons.
I always felt Mel had gone rogue. SHE thinks she's the best, but what proof do we have that she's right? I find it difficult to believe that the rest of her order would go alone with her when it is so obvious that she's wrong.
From their perspectiv it is not that clear . . . We decide she is wrong from knowing of history, that burning people never is right and feeling her beeing a threat to characters we love. Even if she had been right, we would not have liked it and needed much time to see that, because we are biased! While they are biased in a different direction
Madeline Sartori It is. Robert has a channel called INDEEPGEEK and one called THE WELL TOLD TALE. He’s an amazing content creator, and a really nice guy in general.
I think you guys have it backwords. Melissandre is going to betray stannis. She refers to him with a lot of heart of light imagery, and the heart of light is the heart that the sword is plunged through to create Lightbringer
Okay okay okay you said how fire wights are driven by goals? What if ALL wights are driven by a goal and can only rest until that goal is achieved? Which would explain why our army of the dead is marching south? And maybe how this is going to end?
Shout Out Gray and Robert. Wonderful talking points as usual. With all the Fan Reaction Videos. You both need to watch 2. The Burlington Bar watch parties And Nikki and Steven Reacts
Thanks for the juice! Awesome video as always! One thing I wonder is if Jon’s soul did go into ghost and Mel has a way to bring him back how different he would be from Beric and Catelyn. I would think he would be more “normal” because technically his soul never left the plane.
Mance Rayder was patched up with scarlet silk from a cog from asshai and an old witch was there (her without glamour) and her daughter (with glamour) patched him up when he came back after the shadow cat got him.
She's descendant of the children from North of the wall. She is a gifted green seer. Many are born with green eyes but in a thousand greeneyed seers one has the red eyes of the truly powerful. (can't remember the exact quotes)
Cheryl Baxter ,Stormborn it’s a simple theory I have as to why there is no children in the city. Immortal shadow binders also don’t tend to make children. Can Melisandre actually have a real child who knows...
I think under normal circumstances, children would probably die, or be used in some dark magic practices similar to Varys’. But the red temple buys slave children, and do something that would bless them with immortality. Like only a certain amount of children subjected to a test, the survivors become immortal, but still age. More than likely at a more gradual pace. Or maybe they are all given a ruby that keeps them immortal, and enhance magic like when she performed the glamor on Mance and Rattleshirt.
I think she ended up at Dragonstone/supporting Stannis because if Jon is Azor Ahai, then the only reason she eventually does meet Azor Ahai is because she was with Stannis. It's probable that she asked something about how to find AA in the flames and the flames showed her Stannis or Dragonstone. Her attachment to Stannis only makes sense if she sees something in the flames that tells her he is AA, and that's what makes sense to me.
I can’t recall why it was that Mel believed Stannis was Azor Ahai and not merely another who “has a part to play in the Great War” or if it was mentioned in the books. Must be time for me to reread the books.
Tin foil theory.. or idea idk. But to be plain and simple what if it was ultimately the stone men vs the ice wights ? Lol like fire vs ice, being that the doom has a shit ton of stone men roaming around..? Like could the stone men give the disease to the white walkers still??
First of all, I appreciate your channel and analysis videos of The Song of Ice and Fire. Your love for the series makes me feel better about my own....lol. IMO Melisandre, the actor, changed after she acted out the scene of the burning of Shireen. She seemed less enthusiastic. Whatever the case, I sure would love her necklace!
In the first book Tywin reports that Mel has only just arrived on Dragonstone or is still en route there. From what you say he was wrong but it appears even well informed people hadn't heard of her (if they didn't live on Dragonstone) before Robert's death.
The theory about a fire wight is interesting but I would go further with it. In my opinion she is the fire equivalent of an Other, not a wight. She is one of those that do the ressurecting, not the ones that are being ressurected. And if going by that definition we look at Berric Dondarion who may well be a fire wight, than the priest who ressurected him must be of a higher level. The only thing that doesn't make sense here is Berric sacrificing himself to bring back Catelyn, cuz that implies that fire wights can make other fire wights. But even with that problem I don't think that Red Priests are wights, they are something "more".
Oh yes honey ❤️👏👏 I've been working too much!! Having GoT withdrawals!! I moved to part time. Guess I'm too old and beat up from working with animals my whole life. Going to request Quaithe again 💜Great series!! I've been bingeing every AHS season.
To me she represents the worst and the best of zealotry. Faith can be beautiful, captivating and revolutionary. And then you might also throw a princess on the barbie.
One day you're speaking about saving the world from the apocalypse and the next you're birthing a shadow baby to assassinate someone and convincing someone to burn their nephew.
I enjoyed this very much and I love Roberts channel too. I hope we get more of Melisandre in the long awaited book. What do you think of Kinvara? I believe she is stronger than Melisandre. Thanks for the great video.
I don’t know if you talked about this but I just thought of it. Is there going to be on some level a revolt/ civil war at the wall after what wun wun did the the queens guard? I remember reading and saying to myself after the queens guard died, “oh shit this is REALLY REALLY REALLY bad!”
@@alanpennie8013 Mel comes to the wall and then entrances Jon via Resurrection, and together they lead the Nights Watch and the wildlings, a la the original Night's King and his Ice Queen ! Though, I don't know if there were any wild wings in the original Night's King's ranks
@@jsull81 It's possible. The Night's Watch has certainly recruited wildlings at times and some wildlings (such as the men of the frozen shores) may worship The Others as gods.
25:00 In Deep Geek you are INCORRECT about Melisandra being SOLD into slavery... We DO NOT KNOW DEFINITIVELY if she was sold into slavery or CAPTURED/KIDNAPPED into slavery like Tyrion and Penny are. In the Blood Raven + Shiera = Mel theory, it is specifically stated that the theory thinks she was captured when traveling east with Shiera, and it was actually Yolkboy from Radio Westeros who came up with the theory (I should know as I'm a Radio Westeros fanatic and have listed to every one of their shows multiple times as I believe them to be the absolute pinnacle of A song of Ice and Fire podcasts). Anyway, I just wanted to point out that you're assumption of Melisandra being SOLD into slavery versus being captured is incorrect and that nowhere in the novels is it specified that Melisandra is definitively sold into slavery and that I find it somewhat lazy to reject an entire theory based upon your incorrect assumptions of what that theory is predicated upon.
I wonder if Melissandre is a much, much older version of what Coldhands is. Asshai was once a thriving city that experienced some kind of doom well before the Valyrian doom that only the people of YiTi would be able to have record of. If Coldhands is perhaps the Night's King of history living out some eternal undead torment for being involved in the creation of white walkers (and consequently wights...Melisandre birthing the shadow baby is just like the White Walkers creating wights?) perhaps she's like some remaining thousand year old sacrifice to some old oily black stone god? She's definitely not a fire wight like Lady Stoneheart/Beric Dondarion are becoming, but she definitely has the ability to create those undead shadow beings.
My sweet summer children 💙 the Lady Gray's back back again back with a friend , Gray's back back again with Robert @ndeepgeek .....yay I was o so pleased and thankful and blessed to hear your voice today..... have a horrible migraine and your voice and Roberts has given me a little bit of time with out the heartbeat sounds out of my ears n mind ...ahh thanks so much for the videos , missed & missing the ASOIF... TY again 😊💜😊
I don't think Mel is QUITE a fire wight. I think we have clues hiding in plain sight. Hear me out: The Undying are not quite the same as wights and their "life" essence is tied to that pulsing blue-black heart. I don't think it's a coincidence that something often referred to is "the fiery heart of Rh'llor", or "heart if fire". So there it is. There is a literal fiery heart that sustains red priests like Mel and Moqorro. But there's more. We've also been told of "The heart of Winter". What if it's the same thing again? A literal heart of ice, that perhaps all the Others are tied to.
Dance With Me Then and what if the rubies are linked to that heart. We know there is a magical property when it comes to them. Maybe when children are subjected to a test. Maybe as a sort of initiation, they are poisoned, and given the stone, if you live, you remain immortal for as long as you have the stone. Idk, it was an idea I got from the book Dune, and the gom jabbar.
@Mother of Cats rubies are associated with fire. sapphires with ice. the strange thing are targaryens with dark blue and indigo eyes. indigo could also pass as sapphire blue. and the only two targaryens with blue eyes i could name quickly are aegon the fifth and rhaegar.
Seven hell a what Perfect collaboration pairingall 👍can u ask u My Lady Gray of House Gray is ,,,wud love to see a collab with my man Kev =AKA BRIIDGE4,wud llove to see/hear that!!x CHEERS NICE VID 👌👍
@@lyndsaybain3845 Beautiful inhuman woman at The Wall attracts the attention of (seduces) self - proclaimed king. There's an interesting post by Durran Durrandon(on westeros.org) about all this if you're interested. It's actually a common fan error (see Order of The Greenhand passim) to confuse symbolic connection with absolute identity.
Having just watched Game of Thrones for the first time about a month ago, I’m confused why they introduced a second red lady, and then just dropped that. Like why? And why didn’t she revealed herself as a hag before I randomly dying during the battle of darkness that was in advised and stupid considering the CGI budget
Thank you Gray and Robert you two are amongst my favorites and I agree to keep GOT alive. I am chomping at the bit for winds of winter have read a song 5 times. Could Melisandra be "the song of ice and fire"?
the song of ice and fire is actually a island and country with the name iceland. and the phrase is very lively in the edda of snorri sturlesson. muspelheim=fire, light and chaos. niflheim=ice, darkness and death. and in the middle giants and red eyed gods had been born, where fire and ice came together.
I’ll say it again and again, Melisandre and the Lord of light are the two most significant forces in the entire series. Often underlooked.
John DelVento Aka Bloodraven, 3eyed crows, and now Bran! 🤗🤣🔥
in the show it all meant nothing
you forgot the Father of Dragons. You cannot forget the Father of Dragons, unless you want to start all over.... again 🧙🏼♂️💚🐉☘️
How so?
Not only two of the best but two my favorite ASoIaF content creators together, hope to see this collaboration more often. Definitely an interesting topic and some great insights as always. Look forward to seeing more ASoIaF content from you more often again Gray , although I do sympathize with the show over (regardless of opinion on that) and going on 9 years since the last book it is not always easy finding new ASoIaF concepts and theories to discuss but IDG and Lady Gray are some of the best at keeping the ASoIaF discourse and debate going 👏🏻 . Great vid here as usual and look forward to upcoming content on this and IDG channel(s). Let’s hope we get TWoW in 2020 , can’t imagining waiting much longer, the fandom just needs another installment in the ASoIaF book series.
From the vid itself definitely liked Robert's idea about fire wights being pretty much singularly focused and driven (lots of textual evidence supporting that) and the fact that Melisandre is likely one , would explain her extremely old age , not needing to eat or sleep much at all , her obsession with finding Azor Ahai and being so long lived has given so much time to study & hone her craft. I also personally like the theory I have heard from Gray before and here again that Mel is probably originally from Westeros , likely north of The Wall and was potentially taken by slavers from Hardhome (or somewhere around there) , she has the red eyes (and red hair) and pale white skin mark of the old gods / Weirwoods. I wonder if that why she has such abilities and so good at accessing visions because she has the mark of and hence was predisposed to old gods magic but was taken and brought up in the faith of R'hllor and eventually spent time in Asshai which could explain why she is so magical and sees so much and why she is more powerful at magical locations in Westeros.
She's kind of like Professor Trelawney. They're both great seers, but they're both bad at reading what they're seeing.
How can you tell if they're great when they can't show how great they are?
SUCH A GOOD COMPARISON holy shit
@@meestamonsieur5357 You can tell in retrospect. Making the skill virtually worthless, but still.
@@danielbroome5690 lmao true. this is like bargain bin level of skill lol
Except Melisandre tried to kill kids because of her visions
I tend to look at magic ic ASOIAF as being sourced from one of two locations: Fire magic is typically associated with the heavens (the red comet, dragons emerging from the moon egg due to heat from the sun, the black stones from the empire of the dawn) and Ice magic appears to derive from the earth (I include aquatic magic, the magic of the weirwoods, the children, and the others etc.)
this parallels lovecraft quite a bit (deep ones vs cosmic gods. one is from deep beneath the earth/ocean the other is from far outer space) and also helps to explain the differences between oily stone (found in places associated with water, jungle, etc) vs dragon fire black stone (primarily found in places like valyria and the lands surrounding ashai, which so far trend towards being associated with fire magic) Both types of stone tend to appear in ancient locations of important magic that is either associated with fire (the cosmic) or ice (the physical/earthly)
My own belief is that it is belief itself which is what gives Melisandre and others magic. Literally, its lots of people believing in something and the Red Priests are able to tap into that because - they're priests. Targaryen blood has magic for the same reason. The reason Dany is able to hatch three dragons is because she became the focus of many people's dreams and desires.
@@sfjlfkjsdlfkjds
Ties in neatly with Varys' idea that power is a shadow on a wall.
Look at the Others, they are described as alive, not dead. A strange sort of life, elegant, beautiful, *inhuman.* Melisandre is what happens when someone lives for so long that she almost loses everything except the soul thing that drives her, you are absolutely right. Something either burnt out and animated by embers, or another who was always preserved in ice and snow.
and valyrians are described in the same way as well. not to forget the children of the forest. dany has many many "children of the forest" motifs and symbolism than any one else.
I’m so happy to hear you say that a song of ice and fire will never die on your channel!!🙂
I love your videos so much and your content is awesome.
Gray Area , very interesting not only that Melisandre is originally Westerosi but the fact that she possibly returned because she was one of those summoned from Asshai during Aegon V's attempts to bring back dragons. With her potentially very old age it could make sense and also she is one of the few people in the current narrative / the narrative's history associated with & likely spent actual time in Asshai. The evidence is light but there is at least that , which is something and could make sense on why she came back full circle being originally from Westeros and returning again from Asshai with nothing in that explanation that does not make sense as of what we know thus far in the narrative.
There was evidence of her being sold in one of the wildling village in the north, and that she could’ve been taken west to Asshai when she was taken to the red temple. Maybe if children were taken to asshai, they were kept in the temple.
I think she was sold in Asshai, and that's why she is "of Asshai": no religion is forbidden in Asshai, so she could just have easily been both Red Priestess and Shadowbinder simultaneously or consecutively without ever having set foot in Volantis
First of all, no where in the novels does it specify that Melisandra was sold into slavery, she could have just as easily been kidnapped into slavery like Tyrion and Penny were in the novels
What I keep wondering is when Melisandre will come face-to-face with Dany and wonder if SHE’S Azor Ahai
Maximum Ryan you you know
the series of over right?
@@bekingemanuel15 There is still 2 books left in the series bro.... Or did you think HBO created GOT on their own? Smh. The series is FAR FROM OVER!
6dem real you know there’s two more books coming out in the series right?
Maximum Ryan good luck waiting on them
Maximum Ryan yes we know but still...
My sweet Lady Gray and Sir Robert Silvertongue together? Yes, it is now a beautiful morning. Thank you.
My theater teacher taught me something that flipped my brain. No one lives their lives thinking they are evil. We all believe we are good and see ourselves as the hero and victim of our own story. Seriously apply it to real people , fleshed out characters , and you will suddenly understand whether they are a hero or victim in their own minds ( and it changes all the time) and you will see them in a much different light.
Ikr I love Robert’s voice too! And I really enjoy Quinn’s reading also! ♥️🥰
Two of my faves coming together I love it. I really like the fire wight theory it makes sense
L
My two Favorite ASOIAF content creators together, I live for these breakdowns. Thank y'all for this juiciest juicy!!!!!!!
How did I just find a video with my 2 favorite ASOIAF TH-camrs?!
My two favorite channels together as one! Thanks for another great video💓
You left your children with no juices for a while now. Miss you like crazy.
her problem is forcing her prophecies into fruition. she is trying to make it happen instead of latching on to what is actually unfolding by fate. she jumps to conclusion with stannis and want it to be true. going against vision is her big problem
And a another one loved how you and robert broke it down and tha foreshadowing of mel,helping Jon's soul bk to his body from ghost.Fkn awsome.
She’s is my favorite character! Another great video!
Mom we love you!!
preetham Reddy love you too!!!
GrayArea yes your the mother of Westeros
The eyes of melissandre are irrelevant. She uses a glamor, so who knows how she really looks like
Ariel Conde There’s no evidence to corroborate what I’m saying but I personally believe that Melisandre’s glamour isn’t making so that she looks like a different person but just a younger version of herself.
@@randomguy4167 of course. But even if is a younger version could be a better version of what she ever was
@@randomguy4167
It's arguable. But a glamour to make her look like her younger self would probably be cheaper to maintain than one to completely change her appearance so I'm inclined to agree with you.
You could be right but a glamour is exactly the kinda deceptive device that an author can use to hide significant details. Like Mel's red greenseer eyes.
It's possible Mel came to Westeros for Rhaegar.. Then her fires showed Her Viserys, and finally she banked on Stannis upon meeting him
I will say this, I've been on the Fire Wight, idea since her chapter, but Morqorro confirmed it. I believe all the High Priests are Fire Wights, no human can do what he did (float on a piece of driftwood in the middle of the ocean for 10 days with no food or water, then get up and be fine when picked up by Vic, a human would be in intensive care). It would also be a nice mirror to the drowning ceremony of the Ironborn, and what better way to ensure the faith of your High Priests than to have them reborn in such a fashion, look at what it did to the BWB and they weren't even the ones being raised. So, I think it likely happens in a controlled environment, a gentle poison or something and if you rise you are a High Priest, if you don't, well, them's the breaks kid.
Wow. This is really interesting to consider 🧐
I thought Celise became a follower of the red god first. That may have been Mel's in with Stannis. Mel becomes positioned to do whatever she wants at Dragonstone once she has won over Celise.
Mel probably showed up at Dragonstone when Stannis was in kings landing. Get Celise hooked and get the night fires into the routine of Dragonstone, then when Stannis gets home, Mel has her feet firmly under the table.
This is making me want Robert on the obsidian nights podcast! 🥰
That would be such a frickin dream
Yes my 2 favorite Game of Thrones commentators doing a video together awesome!!!
Love this duo for videos!! And @grayarea I still believe Bloodraven is behind the Lord of Light power! Sadly, just showing Bran now being the master behind the events of season 8 would have made it SO much better.
Awesome!!! You and Robert!! Two of my favorites 😍. I patron both of y'all. I want more POV chapters!! Have read one sooo many times!! I think Mel has good intentions, but we know where those lead😊I would describe her as a FANATIC. Reminds me of Catholic school indoctrination.
I missed you sweetheart!
These videos get me excited for winds!!!💨💨💨❄️❄️❄️
Right on time. Im omw to work
i like the wildling idea. im rereading ASOS rn and i just got to the part where jon + wildlings and bran +crew are at the tower in the storm. ygritte tells jon "all men must die" weird huh. later in the books, mel tells jon "you know nothing jon snow" which is also weird. theres gotta be something there its killing me
and then the woman from asshai who patched mance's cloak
Pat Reilly I think mance is rhaeghar. Necromance means the living dead raised by magic.
@@OntarioAtOrion rhaegar is dead. but jon gets a vision of his father throught mance. and i have the bad feeling that egg had woken something else, the others rather than dragons and the tragedy of summerhall is more than an accident.
Targaryen Loyalist it’s just a theory of mine that rhaegar is alive.
Targaryen Loyalist there was an attempt at summer hall to exchange the life of the baby Rhaella was pregnant with (Rhaegar) for the life of the dragons in the eggs. (Sort of like what happened with Rhago and Dany) but sir Duncan the tall saved Rhaella and hence Rhaegar was born but he found out that if he had died, dragons would have been born again, and that made him sad and he would write sad songs at ruins of summer hall. Lyanna heard the song at tourney at harrenhal and asked him about it and he tells her about how he could have given his life to bring back dragons so it was their mission to help the prophecy bring back dragons. That is a spark for their love and his attempt at bringing the three headed dragon prophecy back. part of the incubation process to turn a stone dragon egg back to life has to do with exchanging life from a pregnant woman’s baby that is about to be born.just a guess but it is called a “song” of ice and fire.
OOOHHH!!! My 2 favorite GoT content providers! Thank you.
I have a theory for the Azor Ahai Reborn Theory, I think that the prophecy isn't meant for AA to wake dragons and dragonrider but rather to mark the return of Skinchangers and Wargs that have the ability to rule and control the very natural enviroment against conquerors and sely styled tyrants and Melisandre missinterprets these signs in her flames, think about it, why GRRM said that Bran will become King while Jon will become 100 % Azor Ahai Reborn in the books, becouse they mark the return of Skinchangers, Wargs and Greenseers in Westeros which went extinct in the 7 Kingdoms after the First Long Night and the War against the Night's King
Nicely imagined. 👍
You guys are TWO of my FOUR favorite ASOIAF youtubers ever! AMAZING VIDEO UGH !!!!
Red eyes = Fire
Blue eyes = Ice
Purple eyes = Targaryens and Daynes
Well there are lots of people with Purple eyes in books. Blood Raven has a red eye, and Euron has a Red and Black eye.
there are some desendands of the empire of dawn. daynes, casterlys (never buyed them as first men because of their coloring). and they are connected with yin tar, elric shawdowchaser. and then read the chapter in a game of thrones when dany has fever dreams and "wakes the dragon". and the black dragon in her early dreams could be the spirit of her brother rhaegar who "speaks" with her. there is an image in the world of ice and fire of rhaegar, in the great sept of baelor, armed and armored, and a black dragon ring on his right hand. and rhaegar is likely lefthander. that would fit jons notification that longclaw has its own will when jon holded the sword in the left hand for wellknown reasons.
Also house velaryon and a bunch of others have purple eyes
*Sees title of this video
Me: “ASOIAF VIDEO??? ON GAWD??”
*click*
I always felt Mel had gone rogue. SHE thinks she's the best, but what proof do we have that she's right? I find it difficult to believe that the rest of her order would go alone with her when it is so obvious that she's wrong.
From their perspectiv it is not that clear . . . We decide she is wrong from knowing of history, that burning people never is right and feeling her beeing a threat to characters we love. Even if she had been right, we would not have liked it and needed much time to see that, because we are biased! While they are biased in a different direction
Or maybe she's right and the other (hah) red priests don't understand that the Apocalypse is right here right now.
I thought she was a nice lady. I was just hoping to see her propel flaming imp babies out of her twat.
I love “Robert’s” voice!
Is that not his real name?
Madeline Sartori It is. Robert has a channel called INDEEPGEEK and one called THE WELL TOLD TALE. He’s an amazing content creator, and a really nice guy in general.
Melissa Schulz thanks sis! I’m gonna go check him out!!!
@@lejigglyqueenteemo6029 how it was?
I think Quaithe is also powerful. The glass candles are burning, Daenerys Targeryen the Dragons know do U?
I kind of dig the idea that she could be a wildling. If she is a fire wight, the defeat of the Great Other would make sense as her main focus. 🤔
I think you guys have it backwords. Melissandre is going to betray stannis. She refers to him with a lot of heart of light imagery, and the heart of light is the heart that the sword is plunged through to create Lightbringer
Okay okay okay you said how fire wights are driven by goals? What if ALL wights are driven by a goal and can only rest until that goal is achieved? Which would explain why our army of the dead is marching south? And maybe how this is going to end?
Ice wights seem to be different though (except for Coldhand) since they are meat puppets (like the "corpses" in GRRM'S corpse handler stories).
Shout Out Gray and Robert.
Wonderful talking points as usual.
With all the Fan Reaction Videos.
You both need to watch 2.
The Burlington Bar
watch parties
And Nikki and Steven Reacts
Thanks for the juice! Awesome video as always! One thing I wonder is if Jon’s soul did go into ghost and Mel has a way to bring him back how different he would be from Beric and Catelyn. I would think he would be more “normal” because technically his soul never left the plane.
I'm hoping he's going to be more wolf-like, with some of Ghost living in his head
omg...2 of my favorites together...
I just love hearing you guys !! Love both your channels !!
Mance Rayder was patched up with scarlet silk from a cog from asshai and an old witch was there (her without glamour) and her daughter (with glamour) patched him up when he came back after the shadow cat got him.
I have lived off of the series and I haven't even touched the first book. But I was gripped by this. Love it. Thank you.
Depending on when she came to Westeros, she could have went there for Dany, but Dany left before she got there.?.?.?.
Thank you Gray and Robert
She's descendant of the children from North of the wall. She is a gifted green seer. Many are born with green eyes but in a thousand greeneyed seers one has the red eyes of the truly powerful. (can't remember the exact quotes)
This is some SWEET juice
Daenerys was just Remodeling love your username
I love both of yall! You guys are so knowledgeable. Thank you for your studies and sharing it with fans! We're not worthy. 😭
One of my theories as to why there is no children in Asshai is because everyone that lives there is Immortal
I didn't know that they were all immortal an no children even if immortal you should still be able to have children
Cheryl Baxter ,Stormborn it’s a simple theory I have as to why there is no children in the city. Immortal shadow binders also don’t tend to make children. Can Melisandre actually have a real child who knows...
@@cherylbaxterstormborn477 immortality might have a price, for keeping on to live, you can't give life. . .
I think under normal circumstances, children would probably die, or be used in some dark magic practices similar to Varys’. But the red temple buys slave children, and do something that would bless them with immortality. Like only a certain amount of children subjected to a test, the survivors become immortal, but still age. More than likely at a more gradual pace. Or maybe they are all given a ruby that keeps them immortal, and enhance magic like when she performed the glamor on Mance and Rattleshirt.
@@briantully28
It does seem highly unlikely given how old she is.
I think she ended up at Dragonstone/supporting Stannis because if Jon is Azor Ahai, then the only reason she eventually does meet Azor Ahai is because she was with Stannis. It's probable that she asked something about how to find AA in the flames and the flames showed her Stannis or Dragonstone.
Her attachment to Stannis only makes sense if she sees something in the flames that tells her he is AA, and that's what makes sense to me.
This seems plausible. As Mel says the flames don't lie but they are easy to misinterpret.
My thought to!
What’s the background music theme ? It’s so creepy and dark I love it
I want to know that too!
@@cristianolaru1249 unfortunately still no one knows the music
This was lovely. Thank you both 4 this juice. In Deep Geek I look forward to hearing all you have to say, am subscribing ☺
This was so incredibly awesome !! …& Just so 100% spot on !!! 🤘🏼 .. As all your content, which I have fully fallen in love with 🤯❤️🔥🐉
I think she is directly a fire wight, as in resurected, but indirectly as in substained by fire so she never died in the first place. . . . .
Yep.
I can’t recall why it was that Mel believed Stannis was Azor Ahai and not merely another who “has a part to play in the Great War” or if it was mentioned in the books. Must be time for me to reread the books.
Tin foil theory.. or idea idk. But to be plain and simple what if it was ultimately the stone men vs the ice wights ? Lol like fire vs ice, being that the doom has a shit ton of stone men roaming around..? Like could the stone men give the disease to the white walkers still??
First of all, I appreciate your channel and analysis videos of The Song of Ice and Fire. Your love for the series makes me feel better about my own....lol. IMO Melisandre, the actor, changed after she acted out the scene of the burning of Shireen. She seemed less enthusiastic. Whatever the case, I sure would love her necklace!
I love your channel, thanks for the new video!
In the first book Tywin reports that Mel has only just arrived on Dragonstone or is still en route there. From what you say he was wrong but it appears even well informed people hadn't heard of her (if they didn't live on Dragonstone) before Robert's death.
The theory about a fire wight is interesting but I would go further with it. In my opinion she is the fire equivalent of an Other, not a wight. She is one of those that do the ressurecting, not the ones that are being ressurected. And if going by that definition we look at Berric Dondarion who may well be a fire wight, than the priest who ressurected him must be of a higher level. The only thing that doesn't make sense here is Berric sacrificing himself to bring back Catelyn, cuz that implies that fire wights can make other fire wights. But even with that problem I don't think that Red Priests are wights, they are something "more".
Great points!
Oh yes honey ❤️👏👏 I've been working too much!! Having GoT withdrawals!! I moved to part time. Guess I'm too old and beat up from working with animals my whole life. Going to request Quaithe again 💜Great series!! I've been bingeing every AHS season.
That theory of the skinchanger summit of Jon is AMAZING... And Also the firewhite Melisandre... OMG blew my mind.
Go ahead and take my like Robert and Gray together you know this is gonna be fireee
Mellisandre is my favorite witch in fiction
To me she represents the worst and the best of zealotry. Faith can be beautiful, captivating and revolutionary. And then you might also throw a princess on the barbie.
One day you're speaking about saving the world from the apocalypse and the next you're birthing a shadow baby to assassinate someone and convincing someone to burn their nephew.
I enjoyed this very much and I love Roberts channel too. I hope we get more of Melisandre in the long awaited book. What do you think of Kinvara? I believe she is stronger than Melisandre. Thanks for the great video.
Any thoughts to Millisandre readings in the flames of burning people, are linked to when Dany burned Miri Maz dor, used death to pay for life?
I don’t know if you talked about this but I just thought of it. Is there going to be on some level a revolt/ civil war at the wall after what wun wun did the the queens guard? I remember reading and saying to myself after the queens guard died, “oh shit this is REALLY REALLY REALLY bad!”
It does look like things will get very bad at The Wall. Maybe Mel will broker a truce.
That ice version of Melisandre reminds me of the ice woman that tempted the Night's King ! Not sure what that means, though
Will Mel raise her own army of wights?
@@alanpennie8013
...Lead by the recently resurrected, fire wight, Jon Snow !!
@@alanpennie8013
Mel comes to the wall and then entrances Jon via Resurrection, and together they lead the Nights Watch and the wildlings, a la the original Night's King and his Ice Queen ! Though, I don't know if there were any wild wings in the original Night's King's ranks
@@jsull81
It's possible. The Night's Watch has certainly recruited wildlings at times and some wildlings (such as the men of the frozen shores) may worship The Others as gods.
@@alanpennie8013
Good point
I’m so ready for this juice🥤🥤
Obviously my body. But I refused.
BTW I feel like you should have put Bob's name in the title to get more traffic. Still, nice surprise.
Hey I want your both channels talk about Witcher in Netflix! I'm so hyped jesus
25:00 In Deep Geek you are INCORRECT about Melisandra being SOLD into slavery... We DO NOT KNOW DEFINITIVELY if she was sold into slavery or CAPTURED/KIDNAPPED into slavery like Tyrion and Penny are. In the Blood Raven + Shiera = Mel theory, it is specifically stated that the theory thinks she was captured when traveling east with Shiera, and it was actually Yolkboy from Radio Westeros who came up with the theory (I should know as I'm a Radio Westeros fanatic and have listed to every one of their shows multiple times as I believe them to be the absolute pinnacle of A song of Ice and Fire podcasts). Anyway, I just wanted to point out that you're assumption of Melisandra being SOLD into slavery versus being captured is incorrect and that nowhere in the novels is it specified that Melisandra is definitively sold into slavery and that I find it somewhat lazy to reject an entire theory based upon your incorrect assumptions of what that theory is predicated upon.
I wonder if the red priests will make an appearance in the new HBO show
There was a witch involved in the dance of dragons, so definitely yes. The earlier Targaryens also surrounded themselves with red witches.
Hopefully she's a main character with a POV perspective
I wonder if Melissandre is a much, much older version of what Coldhands is. Asshai was once a thriving city that experienced some kind of doom well before the Valyrian doom that only the people of YiTi would be able to have record of. If Coldhands is perhaps the Night's King of history living out some eternal undead torment for being involved in the creation of white walkers (and consequently wights...Melisandre birthing the shadow baby is just like the White Walkers creating wights?) perhaps she's like some remaining thousand year old sacrifice to some old oily black stone god? She's definitely not a fire wight like Lady Stoneheart/Beric Dondarion are becoming, but she definitely has the ability to create those undead shadow beings.
Yayyyyy! Haven't watched yet but so happy
Just a scuffed versiom of Bran. Didn't get to choose what she wanted but knew what would happen .
Omg I finally catch one of your newest video
*faints*
My sweet summer children 💙 the Lady Gray's back back again back with a friend , Gray's back back again with Robert @ndeepgeek .....yay I was o so pleased and thankful and blessed to hear your voice today..... have a horrible migraine and your voice and Roberts has given me a little bit of time with out the heartbeat sounds out of my ears n mind ...ahh thanks so much for the videos , missed & missing the ASOIF... TY again 😊💜😊
I don't think Mel is QUITE a fire wight. I think we have clues hiding in plain sight. Hear me out:
The Undying are not quite the same as wights and their "life" essence is tied to that pulsing blue-black heart. I don't think it's a coincidence that something often referred to is "the fiery heart of Rh'llor", or "heart if fire". So there it is. There is a literal fiery heart that sustains red priests like Mel and Moqorro.
But there's more. We've also been told of "The heart of Winter". What if it's the same thing again? A literal heart of ice, that perhaps all the Others are tied to.
Dance With Me Then and what if the rubies are linked to that heart. We know there is a magical property when it comes to them. Maybe when children are subjected to a test. Maybe as a sort of initiation, they are poisoned, and given the stone, if you live, you remain immortal for as long as you have the stone. Idk, it was an idea I got from the book Dune, and the gom jabbar.
Mother of Cats you mean like what Mel did with Mance? Maybe it’s both cause doesn’t all the red priests have a ruby?
Mother of Cats same, as long as it’s well written, I’ll be fine with the idea of Bran being king lol
dany saveged the corrupted heart of the undying.
@Mother of Cats rubies are associated with fire. sapphires with ice. the strange thing are targaryens with dark blue and indigo eyes. indigo could also pass as sapphire blue. and the only two targaryens with blue eyes i could name quickly are aegon the fifth and rhaegar.
Could she be the last actual Valerian? Because she can glamor her looks. maybe...???
Intriguing
Second favorite character. I love this. It makes total sense.
Love both you guys so much! Great video ♡
I love Robert from InDeepGeek his voice is amazing. I love you too Gray Area. You both make good content.
I’m supposed to be studying!!! My 2 favs coming together!
i love you gray ... you´re truly our Mhysa!
No, there's only 1 Mhysa and her name is Daenerys Targeryen and D&D did her dirty!
Seven hell a what Perfect collaboration pairingall 👍can u ask u My Lady Gray of House Gray is ,,,wud love to see a collab with my man Kev =AKA BRIIDGE4,wud llove to see/hear that!!x CHEERS NICE VID 👌👍
Gray u R the best , ur funny GOT videos get me through hell over n over thank uuuuu 💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙
Thank you and your welcome glad I could help! Hope things get better😊
i really wanted her to be the original nights queen. really wanted that
MsMickeyness was there anything that lead you to believe she would have been?
@@lyndsaybain3845
There are certain symbolic connections.
Alan Pennie such as?
@@lyndsaybain3845
Beautiful inhuman woman at The Wall attracts the attention of (seduces) self - proclaimed king.
There's an interesting post by Durran Durrandon(on westeros.org) about all this if you're interested.
It's actually a common fan error (see Order of The Greenhand passim) to confuse symbolic connection with absolute identity.
Alan Pennie hmmmm.... Seems a bit tenuous at best. Will read up on it though.
Having just watched Game of Thrones for the first time about a month ago, I’m confused why they introduced a second red lady, and then just dropped that. Like why? And why didn’t she revealed herself as a hag before I randomly dying during the battle of darkness that was in advised and stupid considering the CGI budget
Thank you Gray and Robert you two are amongst my favorites and I agree to keep GOT alive. I am chomping at the bit for winds of winter have read a song 5 times. Could Melisandra be "the song of ice and fire"?
the song of ice and fire is actually a island and country with the name iceland. and the phrase is very lively in the edda of snorri sturlesson. muspelheim=fire, light and chaos. niflheim=ice, darkness and death. and in the middle giants and red eyed gods had been born, where fire and ice came together.