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History of WWI Primer 020: German Dreyse 1907 Pistol Documentary
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.พ. 2016
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Othais and Mae delve into the story of this WWI classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its WWI Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
Cartridge: .32 ACP
Capacity: 7 rnds
Length: 6.3"
weight: 1.6 lbs
Additional reading:
You can now find these and other books through our A-store. When buying through this link we receive a small commission that goes on to help with production.
astore.amazon.com/candrprimer-20
Music provided by Melissa Hyman of The Moon and You
www.themoonandyou.com/
Safe range space thanks to Shoot Logic
www.shootlogic.com/
In collaboration with The Great War
/ thegreatwar
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
/ drakegmbh
Archival work by Georgy
georgy-konstantinovich-zhukov....
Visit us at candrsenal.com
If you have a Dreyse, consider telling Ed about it!
unblinkingeye.com/Guns/07Dreys...
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This is the pistol Berlin Homicide Detective Gereon Rath uses in "Babylon Berlin", set in the late 1920s. Great show.
And I have one. Fun shooter too. The mag lips are a little bent but it hardly haves malfunctions.
LoL Great streaming series recommendation Babylon Berlin S1- S3 have been awesome. Series 4 has been good but not as great as S1-S3 I've got three more episodes of S4 to watch, it would have been better if they left the dance marathon nonsense out and covered more about Gereon's being undercover in the SA and the murders but that's just my opinion 😉
I love going back to the days of the all .32 Channel. Thanks y’all!
This is one of my favorite videos.
It's amazing how much Browing understood patent law.
And Dreyse figured a way around!
Been watching this channel for a while now. After my father-in-law found out that I'll be starting gunsmithing classes in August, he gave me one of the two that he had to use as a project gun. Was stoked to see that you guys had a video talking about it! Thanks for the info you provide in these videos.
Wow, you are lucky family and future employment. I'm a little bit jealous. Good luck.
5 years later I’m pretty sure this produced the tightest group of any gun yet. Crazy.
CONFIRMED: Othias films these videos without pants.
+Clay Ronso It's hot in there with the lights
I wouldn't
I thought everyone had already figured that out already. Of course he doesn't wear pants in the studio, would you?
I can dig the T-Gewehr family photos at the end.
Especially the one with Othais, that makes me want my own T-Gewehr to own and take care of like a lost puppy... of tank death....
+ThePlaceChannel I know right?! I'm going to be so sad when I have to let this one go back to it's rightful owner.
Your xray animations are awesome. I learn more from them than i could ever from a old school gun book
+C&Rsenal Funny little tidbit: "Schmeißen" or "schmeissen" in german, means "to throw forcefully". A "Schmeißer" or "Schmeisser" hence is "someone, who throws forcefully".
+MadnerKami aw man, that's neat.
Well, yeah, but Schmeisser as a family name has a different origin. The original meaning would probably be something like "defiler", cf.: www.deutsche-nachnamen.de/index.php/herkunft-a-z
@@bossel um.... here is the "google translate" of that entry:
Nicknames for Middle High German smîçen (painting, smearing, beating), too Middle High German smeiç, too early Modern High German throwing (separating feces; soiling) for a brawler or spoiler; also professional names for the hewers in the Schmeysser mine (1494)
it still means thrower everything else is weird!
Does this mean it now translates to "Yeet"...?
@@aussiebloke609 I'm sorry, but I really hate that (word?) Yeet. I don't think it's a word at all. I think its just the sound you make when you have to throw your hi-point at your enemy because the designers only gave it a single stack mag. I only started hearing that (word?) a couple a years ago when I first started hearing about the hi-point. Yes, I'm late in the game of modern firearms because I'd been making custom flintlock and percussion firearms since the late ninetys. Its only now that I saved enough money to buy something other than a side by side shotgun to protect my home.
I inherited one of these from my father who brought it home from WWII. Thank you for the great info.
Inspector Rath certainly made good use of his Dreyse!
It seems Mae is feeling much better. The Dreyse appears to be one of those weapons like the Sten. It doesn't look like it will be comfortable or inspire confidence...but it just works.
+Robert Neal MUCH better, antibiotics did the trick. That's pretty spot on, it was bizarre to see everyone at the range that day pick it up and drill a hole.
Rheinische Metallwaaren und Maschinenfabrik also used the abriviated mane Rheinmetall. Much easier to pronounce.
+Max Headspace Oh cool. I didn't know that.
They still manufacture weapons best known should be the Leopard 2 tank.
I just converted that in my head lol
@@betaich: THey make the 120mm gun. Same one on recent M1 versions. The tank itself is produced by Krauss-Maffei.
Alot of the shipboard weapons for the US Navy and Israeli navy are also made by Rheinmetall. Old and very prestigious weapons producer.
Yes! A new one! It feels like it's been so long.
+Disco King I'm sorry. If we ever get enough funding we'll try for some staff to help make things quicker. Every other week is our best effort for now.
Hey, it's alright. I'm just glad whenever there are new ones!
+C&Rsenal Honestly man whenever i see a new video it brightens my day
+C&Rsenal
What matters more is the quality of the vids. As long as you keep that up I dont think people care if you update bi monthly or bi weekly.
When will shirts be for sale again?
Thanks, Drake!
Where do I get a poster of Othais in the orange sweater with the anti-tank rifle?
+bigghoss762 Very likely candidate for chrimmas cards
this is only the second video I have seen from you, excellent way to deliver the FACTS ,I enjoyed this alot
I can add something here, the base plate finger tip protrusion of the magazine is meant to be used to disassemble the forward recoil spring lug. You'll note the interesting step on that baseplate finger? You use that on the bottom of the muzzle where there is a half ovular recess in the shroud of the frame to depress the lug far enough for the internal capture lug to disengage. Once you understand, you'll have no need for your cut copper pipe connector solution, Othias, though that was a very cool solution. The germans always make sure you have all you need within the design of a firearm itself. At least this has been my experience. Note the Kar98's steel circle in the butt for taking down the bolt. I may have to do a video to better illustrate the operation above mentioned. I wish i could just link a picture in the comment section here!
+AdmiralyBoring I weirdly shied away from the steel-on-steel solution for the sake of preservation. Also because it's damned hard to do for me.
+C&Rsenal. Understood. Soon, I'll be uploading a video of this process and whatever else comes forward in my further research and time in the field with the example I have access to. I'll mention this video within mine. Yours are such a great resource. So much on the ground and in hand knowlege is lost as those who truly utilised all of these early designs pass. Thanks again for keeping it all alive!
Othais; your attention to detail on these video's is fantastic. Mae; nice glamour shots with that beast of a rifle. Cool history on a gun I had no experience with. I feel lucky I was able to buy 3 shirts; I should have bought them all. Good luck on finding a replacement vendor.
+taterporkchop Thanks! i still think Othais stole the show with his shots.
Othias, man that last pic of you and the Big Old T made me lol. Thank you.
Features heavily in Babylon Berlin, a fantastic German TV series
As always an interesting and informative pleasure to watch.
+Raymond Gill Thanks!
Aha! Thank you for putting this one on the record!
+AdmiralyBoring We're happy to share it!
Thanks for another great video, Othais and Mae!
+haboob308 NP!
I just ordered one. Mainly because I think it’s so unique looking.
yesterday we saw the film "The Testament of Dr. Mabuse " 1933.
the dreyse 1907 plays a not unimportant visible and "talk about" role as an assassin-pistol, one of the Gangsters used.
even in this old film it was already described as "out of style for a long time" by the police-officer after they got the pistol+criminal person.
(perhaps cause the weak 7,65cal.).
Arrrggghhh........30 minutes of blessed infotainment followed by 2 week of anticipation.
+William Prince We're such teases.
Nice one guys!!
+TAOFLEDERMAUS Thanks Tao!
+TAOFLEDERMAUS NO YOU
You just need to add a new segment to your videos where you stuff a ding dong in the action and see if they will still function!
*****
....why are we friends?
+TAOFLEDERMAUS You got me curious so I tried it out. Now my manhood is in severe pain.
Oh what memories, I had one of these pistols 40 years ago I purchased it for $50 it's one of the few firearms ever regret having sold also it looks like it's time for the Mae calendar when you guys get it all together let me know so I can buy a few as those pictures of Mae were tasteful and outstanding
+tarstakars all props to my buddy David Strauss
Excellent German. Okay,I am lying but it is funny.
+Pieter Batenburg Are you lying in a comfortable position?
I was
Amazing quality animation!
I love that I get a paycheck every two weeks, and a new episode.
+mm06360 aww, I want one of those!
Well probably about to buy one of these so I figured I'd drop by for a refresher on them.
Excellent! Thanks for the in-depth description and background. I have one and just took to the gunsmith yesterday to have thoroughly cleaned for display. Amazingly enough my S# is only 100 spots different than yours in the video. And it's in excellent shape too.
Oh neat, cousins!
I have one , had it for a long time. Love the gun, super accurate the only thing different between mine and yours is i have a wood grip instead or bakalite
Thanks, great video again, keep up the good work!
+Daud Barry Thanks!
Great video and very informative. Just recently posted a video on this pistol that my grandfather had brought back from WW2. He picked this up when the P38 he had taken off a German officer was confiscated by his CO.
I would love to see a longer version of this. Perhaps it is not part of its WW1 service history, but the device has so many variations that it ought provide a lot more time on screen. You people are busy. I understand if you haven't the time to do more, revisit, etc. We Dreyse fans must do our own work. Till then, I am most appreciative of this video.
Yes!! Perfect ending a tuesday!
+rektalmort Ending? I have to work on the next episode into the night!
just a point on the Dryse; instead of using the magazine toe as a take-down tool there is a better one: keep a fired 45-70 brass around. as a take down tool it works a champ
+Grey Pilgrim ooh that is good advise!
@@Candrsenal Or any rimmed revolver and rifle cartridges.
Thanks!
@@Mythteller 45-70 in particular in that it is longer, easier to manipulate in ham hands.
Hi, Othias and Mae, I was pleasantly surprised to find that you had a Primer on the 1907 Dreyse. I was also mildly surprised that you said they are rather plentiful here in the U. S., as I have only seen two others besides the one my dad brought back from Germany from WWI, one in a gun shop in Michigan and the other in a Military Museum at Camp Dodge, Ia. I didn't get to handle the one in Michigan, but since I had one of my own, the curator at Camp Dodge allowed my to handle and explain a little about the gun to him. The only difference I could find in them was that mine has the worn part that is supposed to prevent the action from being broken open if the hammer is cocked and the museum's example was not worn. I did, however make the mistaken assumption that the break open feature would allow for the refilling of a partially used magazine, but if you have a chambered round the break open will not function (unless you have the worn part that will cause an accidental firing. I also found the gun to be top heavy and some what awkward, but nice. Thanks for reminding me of that old relic, which I'm now going to try to get back from my Granddaughter. God Bless and stay safe.
did you see that target !!. real experiments that show what works and what doesn't. Whooa. Dammit; I wish I could work on a short run production of these. It can be improved, too. what a little hummer.
fantastic .... thanks for sharing
+aeron Williams thanks for watching
Thanks again
There is one of these at a LGS I frequent (too often). It's been rubbed down with a Scotchbrite pad, not bad otherwise. It's "different". Thanks for this vid!
poor little guy.
Finally a new one! Thanks
+Biker Jim Sorry for the wait! We're moving as fast as we can manage.
+C&Rsenal No need to apologize.
just snagged a late first variant s/n 107073. grips are creaked so I got it for next to nothing. thanks for the great video because of your work I knew instantly what I was looking at.
glad to help
Ian at forgotten weapons has a video on the Dreyse 1910 in 9mm. The date for the video is may 8 2017.
Honestly, have you thought about a T-Gewer Calendar for 2016-17? Those photos had me entertained beyond all good reason. Keep up the good work.
P.S. I can't wait for the trench shotgun episode.... Nothing like incensed Germans (in the early part of the 20th century) to get me excited.
+Timothy Soen We might already have this years chrimmas card
if i could get that last pic and hang it in my office cubicle, the confusion and awkward glances would be an endless source of amusement. i'd never get another workplace date again, but ............
+Lyle W Do iiittt!
Mae Guns i'll tell them Mae said it was fine. :-), lol
Holy Dreyse, Othais! I didn't realize how much bigger you are than Mae until I saw that pistol in your hands. Dang!
Good work as always!
+fhsreelfilms Why does not Othais, the largest of the crew, not simply EAT the others?
+C&Rsenal Because the smaller ones can outrun the larger one.
10:35 a .45 ACP case works well for this too.
Another fine episode, guys!
Your Dreyse has a little bit better finish than mine.
+crunchysuperman ...eeehhh it's probably been overhauled.
I am now caught up with the series.
+piritskenyer Even 21?
C&Rsenal Let me check :)
I came back to watch this again after you mentioned this gun in the "Questions: Answers 2" video. It seems like such a good design in several ways, its problems seem relatively easy to work out and I wonder why it wasn't further developed.
Also, Pontifical Swiss Guard Dreyse is now officially my white whale.
My goodness. That photo of Othais and the T-Gewehr. It was majestic.
+Francis Borek I want a large version of it to hang above the toilet in our spare bathroom.
It will inspire everyone who walks in that bathroom.
Francis Borek That's the idea :)
I was thinking that you could add a round in the mag to make the grip longer, but this was being sold as what we would call a sub-compact. As a pocket pistol you need it to fit in you... Pocket. In the days when all men wore suits you wouldn't worry about priniting so as long as it fits comfortably in a trouser or coat pocket it fulfils the desired niche.
As for being a popular polezi sidearm, the shootability and small groups might well be the very reason for its long service life.
Surprisingly, I just found one of these in a pawn shop in E-town, KY. Looked like it was all there, didn't look like it had been significantly abused or neglected in the past, and still had remnants of the finish, all the bits seemed to move like they should....but I'm no expert, so no idea if it could actually fire still. But at $250 asking price, it could be worth looking into for the right person.
Don't remember the serial number, but the combination of sights and specific milled slide grips puts it between 230k and 245k.
Gideon Rath carries one of these on Babylon Berlin.
Just FYI the caliber is listed as .32mm in the description instead of 7.65mm/.32acp like it should be. Otherwise great vid guys!
+B Bainter woops.
I had a Dreyse 1907 marked with the SN 2948 on the lower frame forward of the safety, I remember it was a fun shooter, though friends would tease me about bringing a staple gun to the range.
+BrunoGunn Rofl
I love your channel! It took me 3 weeks from discovery to catching up! Now I start waiting for the next ones ;-)
There seems to be a lot of pattents involved, could you explain that a bit? How they were obtained, cost, enforcement, how long they last, country of validity, how it differs from current pattents,... I do not know if it is feasible without turning it into a legalese video though...
Regards from Canada!
+Some Dude I am glad not hear you are enjoying the show! As much as I would like to break down patent law over a 30 year period in multiple countries over 100 years prior I am sorry to say that getting it right would require both law school and an archeology background at this point!
I know it is mean, but I always have to chuckle when he tries to speak German. 😂
Keep up the good work, I love your series! 😊
I have a Dreyse with the following engraved just in front of the safety latch: K.Pr.Z.V. No.219. In the top recess just in back of the slider is the number 22218. The bottom of the magazine in stamped 219 II. Any idea of the significance of these markings? Lastly, what ammo size is used? I won't fire it, since it's more of a keepsake from my dad. Thanks for a very interesting video.
Cool markings. .32 ACP
Great video as usual, hope you guys get to some more of the blackpowder/conversion rifles/carbines
Gras m74 or m80/14Mauser m80/07 (dreaming)Mannlicher 1888 or 88/90Vetterli m70/87 or m70/87/15Or any of the French Kropatscheks
+PoppaSquat We already have the Gras 14, Vetterli 15, 88-90 handy. I would kill for an 80/07 and have deep searches set for the Turkish Peabody upgraded to 7.65. French Kropatschek wouldn't be bad but it is a minor role.
Some of these are waiting on us to decide how to proceed as the history segments make them a bit of a one-shot along with their original forms. So we are thinking we will need to find unmodified examples and load them as well, making them costly double work episodes.
30:35 Thanks Drake
Great information! Just picked up one of these. Now if I can just find a holster.....
New CCW?
Oh no. Looking for an original. Will probably cost more than I paid for the pistol, but you never know. Love the channel and thanks for the response!
That is a nice little pistol. Maybe ill pick one up sometime.
Tuesdays used to be the worst day. Now every other tuesday aint so bad. Also got an M1 carbine in the mail. Tuesday is shaping up ok!
+MadMed Oooh nice.
I can't believe there are twenty of these videos now!
+Alex Ruddock it's hard to believe our 1 year anniversary will be in June!
Two-piece hinged on the front, with the trigger group in the bottom and barrel and bolt assembly on the top? Yep, sounds just like the Armalite Rifle series.
For a moment I shocked and in dismay. by slip of tongue, I thought by Mae. - 'Me, being 32...'- no, surely not your age, you are making fun, - Of course you meant Caliber of Dreyse Gun!! Great video and grouping. I learned a lot, thanks. Vor Sprung Dunk Tecknik.
So much patent chicanery with all of these Great War era firearms. Possibly worthy of a video in and of itself? "A brief history of Guns and IP"?
+digitalbrentable It's frankly fascinating how IP plays into all the strange innovations. We take it for granted all the best ideas are in the public domain these days.
C&Rsenal I can't tell if IP was an ally to the innovation of firearms, and hindrance to it, a bit of both, or irrelevant. There's so many contrary examples!
Ah, but you see, Colt, Browning etc. would of course *also*have applied for any and all patent in Germany, so these are not "international patents", they are German filed patents via a patent agency in Germany. A patent is only valid where it is issued, which is why patents are applied for in all relevant manufacturing nations at once. The importance of a competing foreign issued patent that is not applied for locally is that its existence documents that the idea is not "new and original" and thus it can not be patented again.
If you think patents aren't an ally of innovation, you haven't been paying attention to these videos. Most inventions exist as a way to get around someone else patents.
But that's specifically for actual technical patents, design patents suck. A technical patent only lasts something like 20 years, which in the grand scheme of things isn't that much. A design patent can last the life of the author, and currently anytime Disney stuff is about to be free domain the law extends it. It's bullshit.
excellent as always!!!! why was it the little deyse that could? teutonic pagan magik (wow! thatd be a brilliant death metal band name). i think if i owned one of these id rig up a "takedown glove" and permanently affix the copper coupling to the palm of old work glove (rocking cut off fingers of course). that way all youd have to do is align the lug bushing to the coupling and push without having to try to align and hold the bushing as well. maybe im overthinking it but, what the hell teutonic pagan magik!
ps nice pics of may with the t gewehr! i sense a poster in the future ? and yes, nice pic of othias with the t gewehr as well. it made me laugh.
+milcoll73 I dunno about poster but definitely some chrimmas material
I just bought a Dreyse! Seller had it listed on Gunbroker as a Dryse. Pretty sure that miss spelling got me a deal. $570 shipped. Probably in 60% finish, no pitting, intact grips. Imperial Army stamped.
Great episode Thanks for sharing. When are we going to see you guys in a chat on gun channels?
+Bikerbob59 Whenever I can come up for air! I've been trying to get just a squick of time in on the Mumble server here and there but production prep so we have time to get out of town is crazy!
Dreyse looks like Uncle Fester in the _Adams Family_ in that coat. The man who played Uncle Fester, _Jackie Coogan_ flew the Chindits deep behind enemy lines in Burma in a glider. And in the second it took you to read this, you remembered him.👍🙏
When you point out that the upper and lower are separate pieces, I asked myself, Why do we not do this today?You could have a pistol that fired .22LR, .32 ACP, .380ACP, 9mm Mak, or possibly even larger caliber, all by just changing the 'Upper' and changing the mag a bit. That seems like something people might like today.
+Jeff Hickerson Go, invent!
sig p320
I googled this, and the company that bought Dreise is still around. As the Rheinmetall AG. Building among other things, a certain type of 120mm tank gun.
I made it exactly 2 seconds before I had laughed Dr.Pepper out my nose.
Ahhh, Good ol' Johnny B.
+Dylan Cagnard THERE SHOUKD BE A FOLK SONG
Another great quality video, thanks guys! The history and explanation are great but the diagrams and animation really puts it through the roof!
A guy is selling one locally for 250, is this a good price? I thought there was a catch but it seems to be all working, bluing is excellent. The only thing is it has aftermarket wood grips.
+sergeantbigmac Eh, price original grips but these are usually under $350 in good condition.
C&Rsenal
Sounds like thats a good deal then! It has to be if its that old, functions, and looks as good as it does. The bluing is better than your model here, thats why I thought there was a catch....
I bet those sweet front cocking serrations let you do some sick press checks, you know, to see who could be the best Trench Operator.
There is currently one of these in my local gun shop which is very cool! Unfortunately, because I am in Canada, its classified as prohibited (due to barrel length), so I can't buy it :(
Actually, the spring pressure does not have much influence on the moment of opening of a blowback weapon, take the chamber pressure and multiply it by the area of the base of the cartridge and you get the force applied to the breech face. This is way above the spring pressure. What really makes a difference is the bolt mass, as the force is applied for a fraction of a second accelerating the mass to the rear, heavier mass lower acceleration. The spring pressure will condition the functioning of the action but not the moment of opening.
Keep it up
It was also used in the crime noir Babylon berlin
My sister inherited a Dreyse 32 caliber it really in great shape considering it a100 years old but she has a hard time cocking it the spring is tight but otherwise A nice weapon.
Is this the same gun that's featured as the police issue side arm for the Berlin police on the Netflix series Babylon Berlin?
Hypothesis: "... But they'd have to find some way of avoiding the patent" is a serviceable capsule summary of the reasons behind a huge proportion of firearms development, particularly between, say, 1850 and... well, let's say _now._ :)
i got one of these as a hand me down from my grandfather. Got the papers for it too saying its his personal property. s/n 14168 with 9 X's carved in the side. mine tends to jam as the bullet come up the from magazine and the bullet doesnt make it into the barrel. i have only tried a hollow point tho. would love it see if thats the cause of it. if anyone can confirm that is the reason id love to know.
I'd definitely try ball and maybe stretching the mag spring back out a bit.
May clearly enjoyed the pistol, at lease in retrospect, her Grin told it all.
+Stephen Woods The Dreyse was magic
Mae; look at your own video; never mind what you "felt" about yadda-yadda, the hard data is in the video. the recoil behaviour is beautiful. Surely you don't think it's a mysterious accident that this thing shoots such tight groups ? it's not an accident, it's physics. somebody pretty thoughtful designed this.
Is there any concern that the frame would start to crack over repeated firing due to the slide slamming against it. I had that problem with a 22 I own.
+Ken McD Interestingly I've never seen this issue arise or heard any reports of it. I imagine it must have been made heavy enough.
Dad had one that a German prisoner of war created almost identical wooden replacement hand grips for, with HIS initials instead of the "RMF", that I can make out on published images!
LOL love the last photo.
+john alan The camera LOVES Othais.
+Mae Guns can we get a calendar with this on the cover!
john alan I've got a better idea, Othais waifu.
+Mae Guns W-what, like an Othais body pillow? Gggh. *starts coughing h3h3-style*
+utrak Yes! this is what we really need. Needs to have "hair" where his beard would be
so what is the "Rod" part of "Carolina Rod and Gun"?
A quick question but it's something I've been wondering while watching this series, when did it became standard (or at least so it seems to me) to have the recoil spring under the barrel instead of on top of it?EDIT:for pistols that is
The biggest driver of the under barrel spring was just the space-savings aspect and the simplicity when paired with the browning-style lock.
So the first big Schmeisser Design, decades before the SMGs already had a "telescoping bolt"???
You have to scream those german words and sound mad and then you have nailed it
+paul miller ahhh...
Enfield 303 please, you might as well get to the best sooner, Keep up the great channel, by the way Im here from The Great War channel.
+Christian Johnston It is in the works!
Nice 🙂😎👍