History of WWI Primer 041: Austro-Hungarian Mannlicher 1905 Documentary
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ธ.ค. 2024
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Othais and Mae delve into the story of this WWI classic. Complete with history, function, and live fire demonstration.
C&Rsenal presents its WWI Primer series; covering the firearms of this historic conflict one at a time in honor of the centennial anniversary. Join us every other Tuesday!
Additional reading:
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Vom Ursprung der Selbstladepistole: Repetier- und Selbstladepistolen in Österreich-Ungarn 1884 bis 1918. Österreichische Pistolen - Band 1
Music provided by Melissa Hyman of The Moon and You
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Safe range space thanks to Shoot Logic
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In collaboration with The Great War
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Additional photos thanks to Rock Island Auction and James Julia
Ammunition data thanks to DrakeGmbH
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Visit us at candrsenal.com
There's channels I watch consistently, channels I watch religiously and then there's this channel. I get legitimately excited when I see the notification for this channel.
Daww thanks!
@@maewinchester2030 honestly I get all giddy too, you an Othias have done really good describing guns I didn't know exist!! And I am yet a walking encyclopedia of Guns!! Before and after knowing about this channel, and thanks for giving us insight on these historical guns so we dont have to hunt one down and break the bank to find out ourselves, you guys are blessings!!
Von Manlicher was a damn genius. At 29:16 If you play at 0.25 speed the already slowed down video, you'll see that the unique delayed blowback mechanism actually works and engages with the bullet leaving the barrel.
Such an unique and elegant gun, wish some company reworks it with modern technologies and knowledge for modern amunition but retain the iconic timeless look.
If Styer started making these for a commonly available ammunition, I’d get a handgun license just to buy one.
The fact we can really only see the lock working if we slow down the already slowed footage (which is normally enough to see the locks working in other guns on its own) does indicate that while it works, it's not very good. It might technically be a locked breach, but it's so weak it practically behaves like a delayed blowback
Glad you mentioned the evolution of how to grip a pistol. My Ortegies manual specifically shows using the one handed fencing style and it was made after WW1. I have had "gun" guys get all upset when they see me one handed my older pistols.
dorks.
" _Perfect!_ Works every time." OK, that got a legitimate out-loud laugh out of me, and not just a symbolic Internet lol. :)
superior system really
At 22:25 - much like the Mannlicher Schoenauer. Easier to lean it toward an easy chair, sofa, back seat of 1970 Cadillac... let 'em fly, then gather them.
@@-oiiio-3993 OR, you could all take turns aiming them at a 10-gallon hat from a certain distance and whoever is the first to get ALL of them into the hat in one shot wins a bottle of Jim Beam or if Ian is there, a bottle of Islay scotch (my preference is for smokey scotch.) (And so is his.) More expensive brands can be used to up the ante as the test goes on but only after the entire contents of the first two winner's bottles are summarily disposed of in the time honoured tradition. Straight up, no ice, whiskey glasses only.
Yeah, I'm Canadian, but Ian has some of idea of what we're like. O.o
@@deltavee2 Sounds good.
How about a Wolseley pith helmet in place of the 'tan galan'?
@@-oiiio-3993 Sure. Throw a small snake in it so it could have a pith to hiss in.
1973, after a short time being a civilian, and police officer, I returned to the US Army, and was stationed back at my favorite post, Fort Bliss Texas. This time, though, I was stationed with the 11th ADA instead of my old unit, the 3rd Armored Cav. So it was, having taken one strip bust because of the separation, I was again a Sp 4th Class, and assigned to guard duty. We, the guards had to attend familiarization firing with the M1911A1. Now at the time, I owned a M1911A1 (Still do for that matter) and was quite accomplished with the firearm and had qualified with it on the police range. When it came my time to pop off a magazine full at the man size target, I assumed a good 2 hand hold, and was halted by the range NCO who instructed me that "In the Army, we don't use that damn 2 handed shit, stand so as to make yourself the narrowest target, and fire with your strong hand. Well the target was at 7 yards, and was a full size man target, so even with the old worn out .45, I kept all my rounds in the center ring, and out shot all the other fellows, most of whom had never seen a M1911 before. So it was, back in 1973 the Army (or at least that range NCO) taught the single handed firing of the M1911A1. Oh, one more thing, thanks a million for the education, every time I watch your shows I learn something new and I am a firm believer that if you learn at least one new thing every day, it helps to keep your mind active, and your body young. Young at 66, I am a nomad!
the 1911 is truly a great pistol, no matter what people say about that. plus you learn something new everyday, including stuff about guns which we both love and care for, live strong sir!!
You two are still awesome. :) The dedication and hours of research make this one of the best channels on youtube. Thank you.
Thank you!
The most elegant and beautiful pistol ever made.
Oh my god that pig is the cutest little thing. Primer episode on the pig please.
Seriously, you should make an April Fools episode of the pig.
He would just ham it up.
oh, you
Othais, what amazes me most of all is how you keep all this info in your head and teach it so smoothly . good work!
believe me it's gone by the next episode.
I think Ol' Dirty Ferdy has become my new favorite gunsmith. The guy was a genius with his own flair and style. As a novice gunsmith myself, I really like learning about the men behind the guns and how they came up with what they did.
No matter how awful my week starts out, every other Tuesday I can take great comfort in the fact that C&Rsenal will be coming out with a new episode. You guys make my week, so thank you so much.
I got your poster and Christmas card and I'm giddy like a school boy. This poster blows my expectations out of the water! It's huge and super clean and the best poster ever so again thank you so much. Your card made me laugh but also made me curious what you got in that present. (Perhaps a rifle of some type?) Also, I want one of those mugs. I want anything with your logo haha.
You mentioned joining up with a master gunsmith to fix up broken guns people send in. I am training to be a gunsmith myself and I would absolutely love to do this kind of stuff with people like you. Maybe some day I could design a Mannlicher style target pistol like you described and send you one to shoot.
Until then, thank you for the quality posters and thoughtful cards, thank you for continuing to do the research and work necessary to provide us with this information, thanks for taking the time to read these comments and respond, and thanks for everything else you do.
Merry Christmas,
Paul
You'll be happy to know we're gearing up to get our Gunsmithing recorded and onto another channel.
C&Rsenal I am happy to know that. Thank you for telling me. I look forward to it and to your next episode.
Quite a surprisingly elegant piece. I'd love to add one to my collection
Me too, this was a loaner
Seriously this one was funny, fell of my chair with the unloading procedure. Thanks again, you are truly great, awesome group Mae. Merry Christmas!
flawless
I like the new animations. they make it so much easier to see what's going on. Love your videos!
free field training I liked the old ones
to each their own brother.
Yeah I understand why the old ones are more "attractive" but you can see so much more easily with these.
Glad you like them, thats the idea with them, I think Othais would have gonne a bit nuts trying to make two seperate 2D animations for this one.
How would he go a bit when he is already complete? :P
Good work on the new animations folks!
Happy Christmas, Merry New Year Y'all
When i went to buy a Steyr Hahn the guy showing me took about 20 minutes trying to get the magazine out he almost released the slide on his fingers. I didn't want to be a smartass and say it was a fixed magazine..
Sometimes they need to learn for themselves.
I would pay to watch that.
Saw a Steyr Hahn at a gun show once, with "magazine rusted in place". An acquaintance purchased this pistol for a song.
C&Rsenal check out the 1908 pattern cavalry sword it has very similar ergonomics and looks like it
That would be my negotiating position with a vendor in that situation..[Sigh] "Well, if you can't get the magazine out it's obviously junk but I SUPPOSE I can take it off you hands as a curiosity....How does (About half what you're asking) sound?"...Caveat VENDITOR....
Fixing peoples vintage guns in thanks for letting you make a video on them, THAT'S AWESOME! It's so cool that you're able to get access to more guns by being able to take in non-functioning pieces, and restoring them to function is fantastic.
Great video!
It makes things easier.
Woow Mark the Gunsmith must be very good and skilled at his craft, I wish I could study under him
Great episode. love how you reference other shows. Thank you for being intellectually honest.
Thanks for a great show and a great year.
Happy Holidays Othias and Mae!
Thanks for sticking with us and Happy Hollerdays to you and yours!
Is it possible that it was designed to be left handed? Officers & cavalry still wore functional swords into battle. Might the operations of arms included a sword & pistol stance?
I honestly watch this channel for the excellent job of explaining the engineering. The animation really puts it all together. Of course the history is nice as well. Mae then shoots them, and then we get the experience details, complete with a bit of ribbing back and forth. It's fun! I am however worried about losing this channel to new TH-cam rules. I hope they soldier on though!!
You really are an amazing repository of info on these vintage guns. Well done!
Jeezless Krust, Mannlicher was a goddamn genius
Fantastic, fully automatic unloading!
I can kinda understand why many people thinks Mannlicher was genius, but to me he seems to had taken the shotgun approach to designs of this pistol and by which I mean he tried many several things hoping to hit on the right solution. Whenever someone does this, it's a sign that he has no clear idea of which path to take so he takes all of them. I look at John Browning and the evolution of his designs and I see a clear thoughtful logical progression. One designer seemingly all over the place dissipating himself, and one designer eerily unwavering and focused.
Excelent work as always team. I would like to thank everyone of you for this quality show that are you making. Sincerely, one of the best part of this year for me. Happy holidays to you guys, and a great new year, with more, better and rare guns for your show.
Thank you, we really do appreciate the love. Happy Holidays!
0:35:59 : heh heh eheh heh, Mae said "reach around", he heh heh eheh.... (yeah, somebody had to do it)
Wondered if anyone would say something.
Mae Guns
i figured it was inevitable, so threw myself upon the grenade... lol. now we can concentrate on the adult portions of the vid in peace
what was that, adult vids? Cool.
wingracer.16,
I asked my girlfriend about pornography. She said she wasn't interested in watching two people making love.
I said, 'Two'?
'People'?
I thought I knew your handle, Jimmy. But hey, I too browse "incognito" from time to time. .
One of my favorite looking handguns of all time. Alongside the bergman and C96.
Man I'd love a Mannlicher 1905.
Perfect works every time.
Why do you have so few subscribers? The quality of your videos is outstanding and the content is fascinating! Keep up the good work and I'll try to get as many people as possible to view your videos!!
How many gun nuts, that likes history or history nerds that arn´t afraid of guns do you Think theire is out theire :)
Exploatores I think more than enough, but then again maybe I am just dreaming...
Charles Bronson I don't know I have plenty of friends that like documentaries guns and history but wouldn't sit down to watch a 40 minute video once every two weeks about the history of an obscure pistol
Thank you, I just feel like we're not the usual in terms of length, sincerity, and politics for youtube.
C&Rsenal All of which are why I like you!
Genuine laughs to be had at 22:25
best job
It looks as if the pistol was clearly designed to be fired "fencing style". At closer ranges it should "point & shoot" so the sights are not so important. The secondary controls (which would include the safety and the unloading switch) are on the 'wrong side' so they cannot be used by accident. An excellent design but with a few weaknesses.
this needs to be added to the playlist.
Ian got a Q&A question about locking or delaying mechanisms that don’t really do anything like the Blish and this immediately came to mind.
ok, on to the "ergonomics" (or lack there of, lol). it's design is not meant to be "ergonomic" (like the remington pederson pistols of a decade later), but rather one that maximizes "dynamic kinematics" of ranges of human motion in the limbs related to use. Mae comments on ultimately LOUSY sights, yet turns in a fairly impressive 10 yd point shooting grouping. the sights are for the board, not the soldier. the use is not in any way envisioned as "stable weapons platform", but rather "repeatable dynamic motion" based. if i thrust with my pistol hand, the bullet pierces exactly where my saber would, only at extended range. it's a cavalry weapon of realistic "increased stand off", optimised for "the fray" as seen by such breeching forces. probably incredibly suited to trench use also, for exactly the same reasons.
but, we then come into the real world reasons it was always an "also ran", it is marginally functional in combat conditions of care, feeding, and maintenance. though probably 100% awesome in parade-like demonstrations with hand picked ammo, any "less than ideal influences" add quite a bit of "jam-o-matic" to the cycle (probably because of the myriad of detents built into the action). for 2 guys duelling in some meadow, awesome. for 2 guys in a bruce willis movie sewer scene, not so much. however, it also makes the half-cock equipped pocket pistol (assuming similar kinematics) an "unsung potential hero of epic proportions" in historical context. trench pistol? nah, i agree with the board, Mae, and "the big O". for the austrian merchant on his way to make a cash deposit? bee's knees, i betcha
legit
Happy christmas and all the best for the coming year to you guys :)
You too!
Sarco in PA has a few dozen Argentinian M1905 holsters for sale. Very cool, interestingly enough made at the Tokyo Arsenal in a clamshell style like the Type 36 holster
neat
Thank you, Merry Xmas and have a Happy New Year!
You too!
The fencing stance that Mae talks about is called to dueling stance, popular during the days of dueling.. They where taught one handed shooting, two handed didn't happen till almost WW-2 .
The short barrel version looked awesome
4 real
this channell should really hit a millions!!"
That would be amazing!
Thanks. I've always found the service pistols from this era fascinating. They have what can only be described as "character."
Glad you're enjoying it!
I would like too see like an atillary special or a small series dedicated to atillary. Love the show thanks for all the great vids keep up the great work
Another excellent programme.
I was once told that these early semi autos were made for cavalry to use with a handgun in left hand and your sword in the right. Probably a truism and not a absolute principle but that might explain the placement of the safety.
great job, like always!! Happy holidays to you two!!!
Happy holidays to you and yours as well!!
Its for mounted guys, you put the gun down on your thigh on its left side and bring your gloved thumb around to the right and eject the stack into your left hand behind the saddlehorn.
The sword stance you all refer too is called the dueling stance, it was 50 to 100 yrs ago. That stance was used all the way into the early 80s
ahh new episode :D
The 1901 IV Pocket looks awesome @ 17:13
and that bonus at the end xD 46:24
s'good pig.
I think at around 16:41 the Roth-Krnka disappears and the Steyr-Roth remains on screen, whereas the narration states that the Roth-Krnka remained in competition for an army contract.
The mannlicher half fades and the roth stays
I looked it up myself and the two pistols i referred to have very similar frames. The top right one in the video should be the Steyr M1907 that has finally been contracted. I was obscured by the bottom right one. That is i think a Roth-Krnka Model 1899. The contracted Steyr-Roth M1907 had actually the Krnka M1904 as its most influential predecessor. I meant these two in the previous comment. They are practically indistinguishable for me. You could do a short video on the differences of these two if the resources are available. Thank you for the outstanding series, keep up the nice work!
Top Left Frommer, Top Right Roth-Krnka, Bottom Left Mannlicher, Bottom Right Roth-Theodorovic
Is it just me, or does the leafspring on the right side of the frame on the 1905 look like the leafspring of a Fagnus/Warnant revolver? You can tell I've been watching too many revolver videos, can't you?
My favourite Austro-Hungarian pistol to come back to and still entertaining after 7 years.
The best way to learn to pronounce German is saying the words out loud while someone is hitting you with a hammer on your toes while wearing a lederhosen and large woollen socks. That will improve your pronunciation in such a way that you will sound like a German. Afterwards to mellow the pain in your toes, you will need to drink 3 liters of freshly brewed Weissenbier and repeat this. You will be amazed of the result.
Pieter I tried this but awoke in jail... Twice
plumbherhub
Then the lessons seem to be working!
MERRY CHRISTMAS - MAE !!!!
war were declared!
twer
My two favorite phrases are “our boi Johnny b” and “ol dirty ferdi”
C'mon guys...I have to do stuff...nvm, will take 47:46 min break then...
Who needs to do stuff anyway.
Cant wait for your Steyr Hahn video!
Been ready for a while but had to do this first.
40:20 So basically, to cock the slide, simply tap against knee?
I do believe that once you program and set up a cnc machine you load your stock and push yhe button, repeat as needed . milling is probably as cheap and more exact today than last century
22:30 I'll just catch the ejected rounds, lets try it.... *fwlump* Perfect, works every time. Hahaha
Merry Christmas to you all!
Merry Christmas!
Can we expect a video on the Karabiner 88 in the future?
yes
this is good news
C&Rsenal I'm interested in learning why an 88/05 conversion wasn't done to the Kar88s and Gew91s
It really is like an auto-loading pistol built with the mindset of a revolver.
It's like Mannlicher thought "How do I take a revolver and make it load automatically and feed from a magazine?"
Better and better.
thank
Ya gotta love "This was a war of attrition." Blackly humorous droll understatement for fighting on the Austria-Hungary vs Russia and Austria-Hungary vs Italy Fronts.
i believe their choice for v or leaf springs vs coil comes down to manufacturing i believe, leaf & v springs were easier to make and much easier to quality control.
More than likely but c'mon.
again, another excellent job.
happy New year, y'all
Thank you! You too!
I know i am a few years late on this and someone here may have already mentioned it. I believe Ian reviewed one of those 2 engraved pistols (think it was the first one).
Say what you will about these older pistols but they did have a certain elegance to their look, modern pistols have a much more functional look about them.
what an interesting piece of firearms esoterica. I'm hoping I heard correctly that there will eventually be a video on the 1870 gasser revolver? I own one but know nothing about it.
Is it in good shape? We haven't borrowed one yet. Email us at CandRsenal@gmail.com
C&Rsenal I regret to inform you that it is not in good shape at all. the frame is cracked and the firing pin is broken. it's more or less a wall hanger for me. i'm still looking around for a functional one myself.
I would have liked the trigger action drawings (e.g. 6:41 & 6:57) to be animated and discussed further, highlighting the differences. The mechanical stuff is what interests me the most. Great video, though! I love the history as well and I like seeing the original patent drawings.
Only would have added another 5 hours to production.
Merry Christmas to you both! :) Posters arrived today! It really is Christmas!!! :)
-Jen
Glad to hear! Thanks for the support!
Tganks for a greate episode
Mae's impression of how I whine and complain online is uncannily perfect.
yup, my inbox
My favorite Mannlicher firearm. In 1966 Martin Retting in California was selling 1905 Argentines for $27.50. I'll have to settle for a Luger.
It would be cool to test how much that delay lever is actually doing, a real simple method would be to lock the gun in a ransom rest and use a fishing scale to pull back on the slide until it opens, then have the hammer held back lowering that block and repeat. Just visually it looked like that lever actually offered a decent amount of resistance.
Personally I think its doing more than you give it credit for, it may even be enough to prevent the gun from beating itself to death over a standard service life or its enough for that gun to get away with such light springs and low slide mass. The cartridge is certainly weak enough for pure blow back but in slow motion the slide velocity seems pretty high I think it would be far worse without that little delay lever.
"Works every time" @ 22:25 - Love those fixed mag pistols!
so convenient.
Another excellent video! Now all that's left is to fix Othais' frequent sighs: he sounds either bored (even though it's obvious he isn't) or depressed (dunno but let's hope he isn't)
Still waiting on that Mosin-Nagant video. I only own an M91 made in 1943 so it would be cool to see its history and origins.
One day, we still have research to dig up.
nice looking pistol
why does that gun put me to mind of capt kirks phaser?
IIRC, Abdul Hamid II was (posthumously) titled "the Damned"
metal
46:53 what’s the pig’s name?
absolutely love the show, but really curious if anyone knows what the rifle second from left behind Othias is? With the barrel grip or something?
Thanks!
Not actually a rifle. Remington Model 11 shotgun with a Cutts compensator.
Fantastic, thank you for the information!
factory US gunnery no less.
Sights in WWII were all pretty bad. I think sidearms were intended to be point and shoot. The trigger could probably be improved a great deal with some very fine stoning. My own issue is the stripper-clip. Conversion to a replaceable box magazine would have made this a winner in my opinion.
That is a beautiful pistol..
nice the new animation
Thanks!
Thanks :)
Are you guys ever going to do the Dutch Beaumont rifle? I know by 1914, it was pretty much an obsolete gun used by a neutral nation, but the Dutch still pressed some into service. In addition, there is hardly any info out on those guns and I am actually pretty curious regarding the former Dutch service rifle.
We won't for the WWI series but one day we'll break out.
Hopefully this will help. (and autotranslate would work for you non Dutch speakers) This is a link to the Dutch Army museum website. I found some interesting info here. collectie.legermuseum.nl/strategion/strategion/i005940.html
Could it be that this gun's ergonomics was designed for left handed shooting? If operated with the left hand, the safety would be less awkward to use and operate the button to spill bullets everywhere.
I think that the Setyer-Hahn should be in the mix
What is it with the dual monarchy and sexy pistols?
Weird and beautiful.
The AWM has a nice example captured by the Australians off an Austrian officer in Palestine of all places...
dang
Damaged pieces you say? You have a list of stuff you are looking for? I have so many parts in inventory I really do not know what I have, ha, but I am sorting though it, and sometimes there is most of a gun in there.
You mentioned Ian at Forgotten Weapons. Between Ian you you guys, I really have some great firearm resources. A bit of reading on the side and I feel like I am getting a collage course, ha.
I got the posters. I have not even opened the tube to be honest, ha. Far too busy with work and a ill mother to take care of.
Didn't use to think this was a nice looking pistol based off the photos, but all in all it doesn't look too bad at all.
Plus, its one of those early automatics that are just fascinating in hindsight I am sure you will agree.
Also, is it just me or does it bear more than a passing resemblance to a modern target pistol in form?
Definitely target pistol ish
Where's the 'Dirty Ferdie' t - shirt selection?
38:32 Uh, Mae, pretty sure all the guys who designed this gun are all dead. Unless one is Wolverine or The Highlander...
Fröhliche Weihnachten C&Rsenal. I know you'll get the hang of the German language someday Othias, I believe in you.
that's a losing bet!
0:36 gee, thanks.
you're welcome.
I've got this playing on mute while I read a book about the Lee Enfield. It almost works, almost.
wat
Are you going to make a review about the Steyr m1912 ?
It may not have been great on the battle field but it would make an awesome Star Wars laser blaster, properly dressed up of course. Much better than the Mauser C96.
I love this pistol is smaller than a C 96 Impressive magazine capacity