100 Amp fuses blown! 300Ah LiFePO4 system down! Unforced error! Making the mistakes for you! Ouch!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ก.พ. 2023
- Make sure you size your fuses appropriately ! Making the mistakes so you don't have to!
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Man, you are fuse crazy bro! You got fuses protecting fuses protecting fuses!🤣
haha, yeah. take more fuses to fuse the fuses....lol
Btw, u have to choose the fuse for saving your cable, not for that amount of power u want to draw....
100 amp fuse is appropriate for your 2awg cable. A blown fuse is better than your wires melting and starting a fire. The mistake isn't leaving the 100 amp fuses in place, the mistake was putting a 200amp fuse in without replacing the wires. That 2000W/12v inverter would pull 166 amps at full load, so first thing that's needed is to replace those cables with 1/0 awg, preferably 2/0, once that's done then it's safe to upgrade your fuses to 200amp.
No that isn't necessary for such a short distance.
2 gauge is fine if you stay around 1800 watts - 80% derating of inverter. 1 gauge might be a better choice if you expect high inrush currents, or run closer to max power most of the time.
Short distance means less voltage drop but 2awg will still get very hot above 130amps, whatever, it's not my setup catching fire. @@jamesalles139
beautiful, love a blown fuse. they always teach. better than melted wires/bus bars :-) thx for sharing.
We had a good laugh! My visitor was scared it was broke beyond repair, but showed her it was just fine. Good lesson ...again. And, fuse did what it was suppose too! Aloha! 🤙
Ouch. Remember that "properly" means sizing the fuse so it is the weak link in the system. Or in other words, size the fuse (or breaker) to protect the wiring. The wiring needs sized to support the load.
For sure! 🤙
But if the fuse is overkill sized then only the appliance can burn down right ? It would bypass that fuse and blown up the battery(ies)?
@@Khlandestine Fuses in wiring do not protect appliances. Fuses in wiring are to protect the wiring. If an appliance needs a fuse it will have a fuse in or on the appliance.
@@ProjectsinParadise808 125A*46V (lowest/worst case scenario) is 5750W... Is there a reason you're suggesting 200A? That would max out or exceed 2AWG wire ratings depending on the wire right?
Thats the downside of 12V systems. Ohms law. The lower the voltage, the higher the current. Melting the fuse is better than melting the wires.
Do you realize that the fuses are for the protection of the wires, not the load? You need to consult a wire gauge chart to find the appropriate wire size for the maximum load in amps you will be running. Once you have done so, you can then figure out what size fuse you need for that specific wire.
150 fuse on my 1200 watt system. Just like write you want bigger rather than smaller. Great video
Mahalo!🤙
As a few others have questioned you just changing the fuse from 100A to 200A and not changing the wire here's my suggestion for added safety and choosing wire and fuse size for worst case scenario. Consider this: Inverter size is 2000w. That has to be divided by one of the following: Either the cutoff voltage of the battery BMS or the inverters; whichever is higher and kicks in first. Then the final figure to input into equation would be the inverters efficiency. So, it would be something like 2000 divided by 10v divided by .90 so, 2000/10/.90 = 222A. Fuse has to be rated to blow before wire reaches its limit. Keep in mind other loads as well as the inverter that maybe running at the same time and equally increasing amp draw as voltage drops.
If you did the equation 2000/12 = 166A or 2000/12/.90 = 185A you can see they don't take into account amps increasing with voltage drop.
Great lesson.
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Fuses : spend a little and save a lot! I don;t think you made a mistake, you just tested your system correctly :-)
Thats how I look at it too! 🤙
Nice to see you made a mistake! Mistakes are the best. You learn nothing without mistakes 😉
Perhaps it's time to consider moving to a higher voltage system? The issue you had here was the main reason I moved to 24v system. Only new items needed is a new inverter and check your connections on your solar array and batteries.
Aloha my friend!
I've made some changes since the last time I posted. It's been a while. I now run a Victron Quattro 24/5000/120 and the entire Lynx system with the Power In, Shunt and Distributor. I've also added four Renogy 550w panels to make a total of 4200w of solar. I have two charge controllers to run the two arrays. One for the 550w x4 and the other running the 100w x20. I have two combiner boxes for each array to keep things clean and to have a disconnect outside.
You had fun with a hair dryer. I was sweating bullets when I tested my system near capacity....well tried at least. I got to 4200w running and ran out of things to connect haha.
If you plan to up you system voltage Victron has a great excel sheet that will help you out in how to connect your panels so you don't have a problem like not reaching starting voltage or hitting it too late in the day. Here is the link:
www.victronenergy.com/upload/software/VE-MPPT-Calc-4_0.xlsm
Made plenty of mistakes over the year's! Most of which I remember! Aloha!🤙
Thanks for your videos!
My pleasure! 🤙
I have 2 200ah redodo batteries. I also made a mistake on under sizing my fuses and a wire from the charge controller to batteries. Thankfully I did have a fuse and that’s all that happened.
Awesome video little question what camera you recording on looks very nice I like it and would love to get one to start recording in good quality
Best to perform a quality selective coordination of fuses & circuit breakers. At a 12 story research building that I did some work in several times a zone mechanic shorted out a 277 volt wire while replacing a ballast. Every time the 200 or 225 amp three pole circuit breaker in lightning panel would trip rather then the 20 amp branch circuit breaker. Said they were working on it for over ten years.
Thanks for showing us your mistakes. I just upgraded my solar to 1000w with a 300AH LIPO battery. I’ll double check on my fusing in the morning.
Hello pal
How are you?
Hope u doing well
Quick question
What fuse are u using for 300ah battery.
Its 12 or 24 v system?
12V system, I’ve currently got a 250A fuse with 1/0 cable between 2200W inverter and single 12V 300AH battery.
what about the wire to/from battery/inverter, is that thick enough?
Interesting content. I am amazed those circuit breakers didn't pop first. I HAD some in line that look the same that I got on sale from MWandS (100a) and they all blew at 32-36a. Needless to say, but I removed all of them as I didn't trust the quality any longer. The ANL fuses have been very good except in COLD weather (below 60F), mine chatter for a few seconds before them warm up. I still use the ANL but have been moving more and more to quality breakers and larger cobra wire on the DC circuits. Thanks for the content.
Mahalo for that information! I was surprised about the breakers too. Like you, I am converting to higher quality fuses too. Aloha! 🤙
Yea I had one of those circuit breakers and it blew way under it’s rated amps aswell. They are meant for car audio equipment. I replaced mine with a quick blow T fuse and a proper battery cut off switch.
@@Earthmadegarden Yeah, not sure why a solar company sells DC breakers meant for audio. I fought with them and got my $$ back. I too have moved to DC switches on my inverters for extra safety.
On my house batteries it's only 12v dc. Have a portable bluetti for AC.
Aloha
Yes truly another beautiful day.
Playing with " Junk Math", is practical and fun at this level. My simple approach is to estimate these things with rounding numbers to easy quick math. This provides me with a reference point. First I establish the multiplier by estimating the DC battery voltage and the AC output voltage. 12vdc and 120ac.
The multiplier from DC to AC is 10X ( 12vdc x 10 = 120v) This simple math then allows me to do the same with estimating the DC current expressed in amperage based on the AC load expressed in Watts. I just use the multiplier of 10 E.G. The 120VAC hairdryer consumed 800 Watts. 800/10= 80 amps DC
If the sum of the total AC loads are 1000 Watts then 1000W/10 = 100 amps DC current. What if the fuse selected is rated at 200 amps? 200 x 10= 2000 Watts AC load capability.
It's even easier to move up to 215-230 vac loads because they consume roughly 1/2 of the amperage ( this is because the higher ac voltage push results in half of the current needed) Therefore estimating 230 vac loads will be roughly one half of the 120 VAC loads and 12 vdc current in amps. From here switching the battery voltage to 24 or 48 works exactly the same. The AC load is halved and halved again respectively. E.G. The 24 volt battery supplies 40 amps of current to the 800 watt 120vac hairdryer.
Aloha! Thanks for sharing this great information for everyone! Difference a day makes. Catching some rain today, thank goodness. Still pretty dry here. Mahalo again for the info! 🤙
Better to be undersized than over, and a lot less expensive.😛
Keep up the good work!
Mahalo, and Aloha! 🤙
You better upgrade that wire size. As 200 amps requires 2/0 AWG cables...
Ideally you would need 50MM² cable for the 200A fuses, so like 1 AWG, the other option is to go higher on your voltage to lower the voltage drop and heating of the wires. going to 24V would allow for 2AWG cable to be used. but to draw 168A @12V you are going to need thicker wires.
I have the same Inverter and only ran a 5000 BTU A/C and i was also popping 100Amp fuses left and right. I think I even blew the 200 Amp fused. So im now using the 300 Amp with no issues at all. Im not running that Inverter anymore im running the Bestek 1000 Watt Pure Sign Wave inverter and everything is running smooth with no issues, except the sun hiding behind the clouds just about everyday. BTW i like that AC Watt meter can i buy that on Amazon and do you have an install video on that digital meter?
You do have an entire wall to hang stuff. Maybe locating the fuses at eyes height so you can see and replace them easier. Have some cheap cheater glasses on your tool bench. I am 68 and do not wish to keel down on the floor to deal with fuses. Count how many hours of trouble shooting, fine tuning, resetting, and maintanence that any system requires. I have mounted the components for my system from chair sitting height to standing height.
Ty sir
🤙
I would use a lower rated circuit breaker (150 or 175 amps) , with the fused sized for the max the inverter can draw - 350 amps in this case, or 400 if that can't be found.
also note that quality matters.
how was anything running with the blown fuse? before you found the blown fuse, you said you turned the inverter on and it was making weird noises and your shunt monitor was reading a voltage (albeit, an incorrect reading). if the main fuse coming off of the battery has disconnect the circuit, shouldn’t everything be off??
What about the resettable circuit breaker from the battery to inverter - did it trip? What size is it?
I have 2 Redodo 200AH Pro batteries and want to add a third. I have a 400 amp fuse on the positive lead. The electrician recommends a 600 amp fuse. What kind of fuse do I need?😅
I went with circuit breakers rather than fuses . if I screw up it's a quick reset and I'm back in business. The boom boom car stereo crazed has made DC breakers readily available and economical
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But those car audio breakers are usually junk. Inverters require a quick blow T fuse
I forced myself to learn how to crimp 4/0 cable for connecting lipo batteries (24V) to my 2000 and 3000w inverters with fuses. Also short distance between batteries and inverters. Inverters are medium priced and do not live up to their advertised abilities. However, no melted fuses or hot wires so far…..
Consider that a 2000 Watt Inverter only puts out a maximum of 16.25 Amps - that's it in the nutshell. So, if your load demands more than that to get the appliance started, you'll start blowing fuses, especially if the wire gauge is inadequate. Always consider how many amps will travel across the wire in every section of your system and make sure you know the gauge size wire required for that section of your system. On Google, enter 'gauge size vs. amps'. Print out the chart. Consider using a 3000/6000 watt pure sinewave inverter instead. It puts out 26 amps. Most importantly, if the gauge size is not correct, you'll definitely blow fuses. Why? You put the wrong size fuse with the wrong size wire. You must know number of Amps going across the wire and never exceed the wires stated limit.
If I use 80 a m p in 3000 watts of solar panel with a 5000 what 24 amp inverter with eight AGM batteries what size amps and fuses would I need the wiring from will be 4 gauge 3 the battery wires will be double 2
I am a electrician and have made that mistake before . The fuse worked . when in use you can put volt meter across them to check. voltage with load/charge on should be very close to zero if several volts it's open. even a test led will work. just watch voltage like that 24V/48V want a test light rated at that voltage. Some times a fuse can blow and still look good. the real test is take the fuse out and test with meter . one thing I did see is that breaker going to battery ? it looks like 100 amps ? if so that may trip over time. they do have a thermal delay to them. fuses like that blow fast . what I do hear. fuse and breaker . I like to fuse at the rated BMS in battery for battery fuse. That 200 amp should be ok on inverter . check manual to make Shure. it is better to undersize a fuse then use to big of one. I got 100 amp on my 24V 2000 watt inverter . the 1500 watt 12V has a 175amp fuse. with 24V and 48V battery use fuse rated for that voltage . most of them are rated 32V max like them ANL or ATC or MAXI ,AGC ,ATO and a bunch more. also look for DC ratting voltage and amperage. now the AC side of inverter use fuse/breaker rated at AC volts/AC amps. your system 125V ac fuse ratting. 250V ratting for 240 V users. looking good. we got sun in Boston NY but bitter cold and windy .wind chill -20 F . light snow. some schools closed due to cold. Buffalo NY . a lot of kids walk to school their. yes buffalo wings/chicken wings inverted their. anchor bar. and town next to me. Hamburg NY .the hamburger invited hear . Erie county Fair. and lot more came from around western NY. Jell-O ,sponge candy and more.
I did find it interesting that the breaker never tripped. Must of took a few seconds to pop the fuse, but not sure. I know when the hair dryer went to full output it popped. Have it working okay now though. Did take me a few minutes to actually figure out what happened. Busy with company, and bragging that the system would handle no problem...then the alarms! Ha ha...I quit bragging after that! Aloha! 🤙
If you can, go from 12V to 24V or best 48V system. Will cut your current need down to 1/2 or 1/4. Also get a 100..200A DC circuit breakers (Midnite Solar) instead of fuses. Will make your system more reliable.
I have been looking at that brand of breakers, as I upgrade may grab some of those. 🤙
Series lithium has caused me some issues. Long story short. Buy lithium in voltages that your inverter is or buy a expensive balancer.
Why is there a breaker and a fuse on the hot wire to the inverter? I'm assuming it's used as a disconnect point.
Yes, I use as a quick disconnect. 🤙
I believe the Armageddon fuse for lithium batteries should be type T as the can handle the higher interrupting rating that these batteries can put out.Just starting my first solar build and as a 32 year experienced wireman fusses have ratings! And not just amp ratings.As i have been watching and researching tons of information on these systems T fuse is the recommended fuse if the system is using lithium batteries.I call it the Armageddon fuse because fires aren't fun when they are in the living space outside of say a woodburner.
Been looking at adding tfuses ...been a little hard to find right now, but plan on snagging some soon. aloha 🤙
How is this solar system grounded? Inverter, Solar Charger... Should there be ground wires from anything?
Nice story :)
Aloha 🤙
Appreciate you showing us an example of what can go wrong. It'll happen to us all at some point. My screen may be playing tricks on me, but do you feel you have appropriate cable sizing as well? A 12v system can need some pretty thick cabling. Someone asked me that the other day, as I have some of the multiconductor cables that came with the inverter in my solar generator. I had to re-check, and check a multi-conductor calculator to make sure I had an appropriate size. For my 2k inverter, and my typical max load, of around 1000 watts, I needed 2awg cabling and a 100-110 amp fuse. For me, that was two 5awg cables in parallel. If you find those inverters aren't working out for you, I can't recommend the Roarbatt ones enough. My 2k is now in my solar generator, and can run almost anything in my shop, without issue (on a powerqueen 12v 100ah batt), and the new 4kW 24v is running the girlfriends Art studio shed without the fans even ever coming on.
Appreciate you sharing this information, and mahalo for being part of the conversation here...aloha 🤙
@@ProjectsinParadise808 so much info both in your content and the comments.
Gotta agree ; from here those cables look mighty small......
Thanks for the mentoring! If you're not making a few mistakes, you aren't doing anything, right? Mahalo, bruddah.
Mahalo for being part of the channel brother! Aloha! 🤙
Have you considered using a T class fuse because ANL fuses can actually arc continuing to allow amps to keep flowing T class fuses are more expensive, but the safety factor that they bring in my opinion makes it more than worth it.
I actually plan on using them🤙
Just curious, but what size are those wires? New subscriber here from Texas, and trying to learn all I can so I can set up a solar system of my own.
2awg on the batteries and inverter. 10 ga. on controller and panels.🤙
@@ProjectsinParadise808 i also want to run a deep freezer, are the anl fuses handling the deep freezer without issues? or do you use some other fuse on that system?
Have you had good luck with the T-Tocas brand resettable fuses that’s the brand I bought and I heard they were good.
To date, I have had not a single problem with any of them. Aloha!🤙
good man
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The battery's BMS might only be able to sustain 100 amps output.
What size is the wire? I believe 12v 2000w a 2/0awg is minimal recommended. Fuses are intended to protect the wire from heating up & melting possibly starting a fire. Another 100a or a 150a fuse maybe beter replacement for that gauge wire
Running 2awg on that system. Working well for what I ask for it. 🤙
2 awg can safely handle 115a. Where as 2/0 (bigger than 2awg) can safely handle 200a
Do that same test and feel your 2 awg wires. They may be heating up quite a bit
@@Earthmadegarden Not all 2 AWG wire is rated at the same amperage.Insulation changes it's capacity as well as conductor makeup. Then there is copper clad ,pure copper,aluminum the list goes on.Welding cable can carry more with the right insulation for instance.Have to check the charts!!!
Been there done that! I suggest you take those stereo fuses, and throw them all away! I only use fuses from blue sea, as stereo fuses aren’t meant for solar!
Great suggestions and I am upgrading to several blue sea breakers and fuses I've had on hand. aloha 🤙
Better the fuse than the whole system or your inverter blowing up. That fuse did a perfect job. Also, why have you disconnected your other battery???? You can use different ah lithium batteries no problem. Just parallel to the bus bars. 2 cables won't cost that much and you'll have extra power.
You got that right! Fuses are cheap, and a good fail safe indeed. 🤙
On your other system with the two Chins 300Ah and Reliable 3,000 watt, what size fuse are you running? (I have the same). The batteries have a limit of 200A output so should the fuse be a 200A or 400A? I installed a 200A fuse thinking I would never be using more. Spring is on it's way👍
I'm guessing that in series the amps don't add, so
@@silverleapers Thank for the reply. The batteries are in parallel (12 volt) and I'm using the big stuff 4/0 which can handle 240 amps I think. Even in parallel I think the limit is 200 amps max output.
I have 200 a fuses on that system. Working well and within the coverage I need back there. Spring showers coming! Aloha! 🤙
200
200
Yes 👍🔋⚡🔌💡
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Newbie question. Explain the use of a breaker and a blade fuse on the same run.
Only reason I doubled up that way was for quick disconnect as I move batteries in and out for testing, and like the breakers for that. 🤙
@@ProjectsinParadise808 When you switch out a battery, do you bleed in through a resistor to keep the in-rush from harming your inverter? or just spark it?
Sorry to offend. That was a newbie question, too. I know just enough to get myself in a tight spot.
@@j.malone1293 I do use a resistor so not to spark🤙
@@j.malone1293 Me too! Haha! Aloha buddy 🤙
Just my thoughts. With as much as you change this system around, it probably wouldn’t hurt to upgrade to 2/O wire.
Not a bad idea at all! Mahalo for sharing this information! Aloha 🤙
How many days was the result of the test?
Just a few days was all. Conditions were poor to go any longer. 🤙
Why do you have fuses and breakers just for extra safety?
Yes, and for easy disconnect when upgrading, or moving things around. 🤙
2g wire is not rated for 200amp, and can cause a fire, and is almost the equivelant of not using any fuse. I believe that wat you said you are running in your other comment answers?
Have 2 awg on most systems atm. aloha 🤙
Why do people dismiss these ANL fuses and insist the more expensive class T are necessary?
Thats twice the anl fuse saved me. I still use them. 🤙
Fuses and circuit breakers need to be good quality, in order to insure that their actual ratings are within specs, many cheep Chinese brands use the exact same components across many differently labeled breakers and fuses. Buss,man, Littlefuse, Bluesea, Midnight solar ect, use only quality safety stuff here, in order for it to actually work correctly at the correct rating. And good double pole DC box panel breakers are best where applicable. Double pull help to extingwish high current and amperage DC arcs. But are limited use in 12v systems, due to high amperage ect. And yes that is what class T fuses take care of is high amp DC arc extingwishing.
Mahalo for being part of the conversation...I have many of what you mentioned to add yet. Aloha!🤙
What is this, 2AWG wiring? We're using 2AWG, orange flexwhip welding cable.
I use a 125A fuse on my 48V 3000VA(2400W) Victron MultiPlus II... The inverter should be able to surge to 5500W momentarily. How sure are you that you want to run 200A through those wires until the fuse goes out?
I'm running an expensive class T fuse because it's a 10kwh LiFePO4 battery bank... Doesn't mean everybody needs to.
I have my 3KW of panels mounted now if you want to check it out... We run a raspberryPi instead of buying the Victron CerboGX here.
Yes, running 2 awg. Been having problems finding T class, but ultimately will get some. Dont plan on ever running 200 amps through it actually. 🤙
Most likely the high setting on the blower is 1500w, divide that by 12v and thats how much amps its going to take - 125 so not that surpring. I only have 2 panels totalling 160watts and it runs all my electronics just fine, but came to the realization battery is king and id need about 200ah to efficiently match the panels. Most underestimate how much battery they'd need, like a 150w load will last only 16 hours on a 200ah battery, a hair dryer running at 1500w would deplete a 300ah battery in less then 2 hours. Not that big of a problem in the summer with constant solar, but a few cloudy days will show you how insignificant your battery is in the equation. Even the biggest solar systems on youtube underestimate this and soon come to see what they thought was a huge battery bank wont last more than a few days in the winter sun, making solar pretty ineffecient and not reliable year round. You'd need a ridiculouse amount of panel to cover the low light in the winter, or a ridiculously expensive battery to store energy you harvest in the summer to use in the winter. Theres options like pumping water up a hill with excess solar and using the hydro power for later, but thats about it. Maybe the recent breakthroughs with superconductors will help with long term battery storage. Check out Robbert Murray Smith's channel he's constantly interating on wind turbine technologly, i think is the way to go, a combined approach of wind , sun, and water even (hydroelectricity) to be totally self sufficient power wise year round.
Actually why do you think that happen what??? Reliable inverter has a built-in protection those fuses will create more problems the less things that you have in between your system your system the better it will run
If you are burning 100 amp fuse you might want to check wire size.😮
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This is why you want to change to a 48V or at least 24V System (also you can use smaller gauge and less expensive wire). Of course you probably already know this and it also involves spending a lot more money, but yeah. There was a guy who did a test on fuses, and the cheap ANL fuses actually worked the best. th-cam.com/video/6o9tbhgtws4/w-d-xo.html
I've blown two anl fuses on my systems. Both my fault, but they did their job! Aloha!🤙
A hair dyer draws 100amps ?
On high setting even more!🤙
The fuse is on the low voltage side (before the Inverter). For example, If the hair dryer was 1200 watts @ 120 volt = 10 amps. 1200 watts @ 12 volt = 100 amps. Add in the refrigerator and losses in the system and you are well over 100 amps. Ohm's law: Amps = Watts / Volts
Hey I’m on the puna side , where you at
Puna here as well🤙
The mistake that you are making and not correcting is the wire size. 200 amps at 12 volts pushes a lot of current through those little itty bitty wires! Now you WILL burn your house down.
Hi I like your videos but please do not store items above the battery such as nuts and bolts and wires. I know you know this already but for me I will not store "any" items above any electrical devices with exposed terminals. Also when things are mounted low to the ground you can not see them good even with glasses. I like to be able to walk up and see at eye level and have room to maneuver in case something goes wrong. Worked on Aircraft in the Navy and they pounded into us "PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE" every day 24/7 we use to hate doing checks and inspections but now I get it and still use that training as best I can. Again you know this already I am just sharing my thoughts and hope you remain safe forever! PEACE
Appreciate the time you took to drive the preventative maintenance point home! I completely agree! Mahalo for sharing that brother! ALoha! 🤙
Your not doing yourself any favors by adding a 200 amp fuse. Your defeating the purpose of fusing. I made a similar mistake when I tried running high amps through a 12v system and damn near caught the wiring on fire. I have since switched everything over to 24V and now everything runs as it should nice and cool. Something no one ever explains is that you should never exceed 1000 watts on a 12v system. This is because of the high amps that a 12V system draws. Shame on the companies that sell high wattage inverters on 12V systems.
Mahalo for sharing this information with us! 🤙
Jeez dude not an isolator switch in sight - . stop and draw out a single line diagram on a big sheet of paper (in pencil) then analyse carefully what you are doing, wire size, fuses, switches . Consult the ABYC E11, they have long experience and proper codes for dc systems, you are just muddling along pal.
Ur on Hilo side?
Yes, Hilo side. Aloha! 🤙