Solar Grounding Essentials. These important safety features are often forgotten.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ค. 2024
- Connecting your solar to ground. What seems to be a very straight forward task, involves a lot of thinking, preparation and fine tuning. Although it is not a very difficult job, we will go through it step by step and I'll show you how I have grounded my solar system. It is another important step in keeping your system safe.
In a second, future video we will also do the continuity test to see how good of quality our work actually was and if the grounding corresponds to the regulations.
Solar Panel Grounding Washers and Ground Lugs/Clamps
off-grid-garage.com/solar-mou...
Continuity Tester / Megaohmtester:
off-grid-garage.com/measureme...
Please subscribe and join me on my journey of the Off-Grid Garage!
For more information, please check out my website with links to all the batteries, materials, devices and products I have used in my videos: off-grid-garage.com
The 'Buy me a Beer🍻'-link is here (on the website, scroll all the way down):
off-grid-garage.com Thank you for your support!
You can also click on the Thanks button under the video to support the channel. Thank you, if you have already!
T-Shirts, caps, mugs and more in our merch-shop:
off-grid-garage.com/merch
**** These are the batteries you are looking for ****
🔋➡EVE LF280/304 LiFePO4 cells 3.2V/280+304Ah: off-grid-garage.com/batteries/
🌞➡Solar charge Controllers, Inverters and accessories: off-grid-garage.com/solar-cha...
🔧➡Tools, Analysers and Testers: off-grid-garage.com/equipment/
📈➡ Battery Tests and Results: off-grid-garage.com/battery-d...
🔌➡Batteries, charger and accessories: off-grid-garage.com/batteries-3/
⚡➡Cables, Inverters and Electronics: off-grid-garage.com/electronics/
Get 5% off when buying Bluetti all-in-one Power Storage Products!
off-grid-garage.com/bluetti/
Great "Next Gen" AOLithium Batteries (4000 cycles, Bluetooth, CALB cells)
aolithium.com/?ref=offgridgarage
The Sunfunkit DIY battery. Great product to build your own 12V battery. Use OGGA at checkout to get 6% off. Video Review: • The Sun Fun Kit Experi...
New to AliExpress? Use my referral code below to register and earn US$19 store credit. What a great start! a.aliexpress.com/_mrtR9Ux
Take a live sneak peak at the Off-Grid-Garage in the Victron VRM World:
vrm.victronenergy.com/install...
My other TH-cam channels:
/ offgridgarageaustralia
DISCLAIMER
By watching the video, you agree:
All electrical work must be carried out as per your local laws, rules and regulations. Installations and setups shown in my videos are for test and demonstration purposes only and may not satisfy regulatory requirements. Installation are temporary, for the above purpose and for making these videos. Most electrical work is not for DIY purpose and must be conducted by a trained and qualified person. Please always check your local regulations!
Any liability for conducting your own work, in particular, any consequential damages arising therefrom, shall be excluded. - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Who knew grounding was going to be so much work? Great job Andy, and thanks for taking us along even when the job is not so much fun.
Thanks for the video Andy , just about to start to earth a small solar array on my roof.
Lots of good info for doing my project.
Andy, love your dedication. Love your camera work, priceless. ❤️
Thanks a lot, Jackie!
ANDY! DON’T use common silicone on the wires or electrical boxes. If the silicone smells like vinegar, it’s the wrong type of silicone to use on electrical. If moisture does manage to get in there, it can eat the copper alive. Raytheon ruined many component years ago from this. When I was a kid, I had an RC boat and I wanted to seal the electrical. It turned into a corroded mess. I sealed a box with electrical in a off road vehicle. It turned into a corroded mess. My son sealed wire on a boat trailer lamp. It turned into a corroded mess. On boats I’ve ran into others that have done it too. I HATE silicone. Common silicone out gasses acetic acid as a curing agent for months. With a small amount of moisture entrapped it will attack aluminum, copper, zinc, tin and lead. Even after the fumes have dissipated, the created void and the corroded surfaces are a catalyst for exponential damage. There are silicones that are electrical safe and silicone lubricant/greases are safe. God I hope you didn’t use the wrong stuff.
Bloody good point. I've used a solvent based silicone in the past which could be suitable.
@@andrewradford3953
This is such prevalent problem that most of have fallen into that it should be listed as a warning on silicone. Just want to do the right thing and would have been better off doing nothing 😡
It's vinegar and acid free silicon.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia
Fantastic!
Hopefully this post will save more from what I and many others had happen before we stumble into the light.🥴
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Hi Andy, silicone can easily pass water vapor and the corrosion can happen under silicone. That is why you often find black spots of mold under silicone in bathroom shower glass installations after a few years. It is also why insulated glazing units are structurally joined by silicone but vapor sealed with an additional layer of butyl or polyurethane.
Hey Andy, those ladders go the other way around so that you’re not relying on the joint to support you. Especially when you’re carrying stuff. Safety Sally was melting down seeing that.
No word about the shoes....
Nice! Good tutorial for us all! Thank you!
Bonsoir ANDY, hum j'attendais impatiemment que tu ouvre le sujet de la connexion à la terre ! enfin une vidéo sur le sujet. bonne continuation.
Nice work Andy! Just the video I was looking for as i've ordered all of this gear already for my off grid project and wasn't 100% sure on the AS standards to earth PV systems.
Just a recommendation as a retired electrician - paint any orange conduit with weathershield UV paint as it's designed for underground only and doesn't have any UV stabilizers in it. It will go brittle and crack in the AU sun after a year or so otherwise
Great video! Really helps me out with my planning of the new solarsystem I'm building this summer.
Glad I could help!
THANK YOU! I was wondering what those parts (earthing washers) were for. Much thanks!
Finally! A proper demonstration.
You have a good week Andy.
I worked at a public utility power plant. We grounded every piece of equipment back to grounding Grid Stations. We uses MEDIUM HARD DRAWN COPPER bare (no insulation) stranded wire. It's available in 6 AWG I believe. Mechanically held up better than soft drawn copper (most copper wire is soft drawn). It was installed out in the elements and indoors, in wet locations and dry locations and near the sea (salt water). It worked well. Just a thought that would work for me when grounding a solar panel stand and panel structure.
oops my friend, how are you, I've been watching your videos about inverters for a while and I saw that you demonstrate that you have knowledge, a question I saw that many people in the United States talk about grounding the battery bank, grounding the negative of the battery, what do you think of this grounding? Is it safe for batteries? Sorry if the English is not good because I'm not from your country,
it is sooo funny when you have everything well conductive(whole structure is metal!) and you draw cables in isolating tubes to it! luv it. that's prove why intelligence is so important.
The silicone was a good idea but Air is in there already. For sure you should have used the die electric or what you have there would stop the corrosion of the metel contact. The problem is the two dissimilar metals that will corrode very quickly just by touching each other. In USA many fires were caused by Aluminum housing wire before they figured it out. Aluminum is not used in house wiring here in most places now. This is called Galvanic Corrosion for your reference , I really injoy your videos. Have learned Much. Thankyou! Kim
Thanks Kim.
looking good!!
👍BAMBIE👍 THANKS ANDY!!!
Excellent Andy, At 3:00 good point about anodizing. As an Anti-corrosion treatment, and anodized surface is electrically dead.and low conductivity. I agree with your opinion with the with the rail joiners and star washers. Thinking back to when I was installing a lot of industrial aluminum cable tray, U.S. NEC required that cable bonding jumpers with electrical lugs sufficient to handle the of the conductor supply interrupting amperage to be installed, and not attached to any structural fastener.
My guess is that Aussie NEC approves the factory joint because it's designed to maintain electrical integrity in the event of structural stress or damage to the rail. The cable tray systems I was installing were joined by bars you used and therefore required and dedicated (unbroken) bonding jumper at each joint, otherwise a structural joint could not also be an electrical bond.
Additionally, for lightning discharge and if the supply current exceeded the ampaticty of the cable tray, an additional bare copper or aluminum grounding conductor had to be used and if it were bonded between joints then no dedicated bonding jumpers were required. I would expect that there should be something in the code that if you used a dedicated grounding conductor bonded at each section in an approved manor the factory joints and those goofy grounding clamp things could be dispensed with.
At 16:00 Andy, I believe that the grounding screw once tight won't electrically change due to corrosion but because of the copper to plated nickel or cadmium contact will bond atomically at the surface. I seem to recall that on copper to plated non current carrying bonding connections, anti corrosion treatments were not to be used as they could interfere with the atomic bond. I recall one time having to remove and clean about a hundred lug connections I applied anti-corrosion treatment to as per a project engineer's directive.
I will show the result in the next video.
Continudity 🤣🤣🤣 made me chuckle, the class on continudity had a 100% attendance record 😉
Interesting. I used an Iron Ridge rack mount where the clamps that hold the panels to the rack provide the ground connections between the panels and the rack rails. So each pair of rails has only one grounding lug. We are required to use at least #6 (16 square millimeters) solid wire (not stranded) for the ground. I used manufactured supplied splices to make up longer rails so didn't have to put in bridge wires.
Yeah, different countries have different rules. If your clamps holding down the panels have spikes, it will work as well. Normal flat clamps will not have contact tot he actual aluminium frame of the panels. None of my panels had any contact to ground without the washers.
You got more conductivity in that metal building than a hundred wires. But if you insist.
A much better solution is to bolt cable using cable lugs to each panel individually, then to ground. Use some penetrox at each lug connection to avoid oxidation. This will provide much better protection for the panels, themselves rather than just grounding the mounting rails. If I can find a better way than what the 'code' calls for, I always go in that direction. It's my money and my life, not some inspector's. This also furnishes ground to the rails (but who cars as the rails aren't going to stop working if there's a surge:)). Also, your building is metal and is also a ground, especially if the supports extend into the ground. And if not you can ground the entire building with some ground rods. I've seen so many things in the code that make no sense over the years. I ran a large mechanical contracting business for over 40 years, am retired now and enjoy watching your videos. Thanks.
It's in the next video 😉
Making decisions based on gut feelings may not be as safe as complying with the NEC, a safety code for you and anyone who comes along and touches your electrical system after you build it. Are you familiar with electro-magnetic fields created around every lightning strike, the voltage gradient in the earth as you move away from a strike, and arc flashes that do happen between metal objects near a lightning strike that are not bonded to one another. You might just want to watch some Mike Holt's electrical safety and grounding presentations before you take short cuts with electrical safety and grounding. Many of the old electrical facts have been proven wrong, he makes the case for the real electrical facts as related to safety and grounding.
> Also, your building is metal and is also a ground, especially if the supports extend into the ground. And if not you can ground the entire building with some ground rods
Think the idea might be to not make the entire building live in case of a fault. ;D
> I ran a large mechanical contracting business for over 40 years
How many years were you a fish monger?
well done, i have learned something today.
Thanks Andy
@ 23:25, there's a whole other shed/garage to work on in future videos, no? Looking forward to that! Beautiful, efficient work you do there!
Yes, absolutely, We have a bit of roof space to fill 😊
Shockingly good details.thanks for sharing
No problem 👍🤭
Great video. On the manufacturers splice are you discounting the sheer mass of the splice? I am not discounting your bar in between, but for a lighting strike the larger the volume of the metal should allow for more energy flow thru. I really dont think it will matter either way. Both should accomplish the same job. I also believe in overkill, the silicon should work fine. My brain says to do both. Put zinc on bare wire and fitting then seal the zinc in place with silicon. That is how I have seen it on floating grounds on airplanes.
Thank you. OK, so this grounding is not for lightning protection. It is for pure electrical safety to bring all metal objects tot eh same zero level as the person is standing on the roof.
Yeah, the cable corrosion protection is a bit spongy in the regulations. Whatever works, I guess...
Andy, you should not ground solar panels on a roof unless you are found so for an electrical strike. When you ground the panels you reduce the number of catastrophic failures from 2 to 1, so you actually make the system less safe.
Regards,
Bill
I remember the days when I would be in the top 25 "Thumbs Up", your channel has exploded!
Thanks Paul, you have to hurry up now. People are sucking in these videos like a dry sponge.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I’m trying to figure out the best way to ground Taj-Ma-Haul…
Saludos desde Puerto Rico
Thanks
When I set up my 16 panels this fall I found continuity between the 4 sides of the panels was lacking..it was apparent that the one connection per panel wasn’t going to bond all the metal frames properly ….I wound up putting 4 of those special darn fancy connectors you have per panel… one one each extrusion….each connection is swabbed and bedded with a with the N-Alox anti corrosion type stuff…( probably not needed) and one continuous 6 gauge copper wire weaves through all panels back to the electrical area… Yeow…..a real job..now each seperate panel strut is reading as in contact with all the other frames , prices and mounts.
It was the only way I could get a good connection between all the pieces… alot of work too.
Heya, earthing your solar panels is a must for safety. that said I have to do it myself too still
I couldn't quite see the wire setup, but you can also use a single ground wire (per string) and ribbon it across all the solar panels in that string. No need to have multiple ground wires. Then put the surge suppressor device (which takes plus, minus, and also ground wires) as close to the MPPT/inverter as possible. Excellent video! People don't discuss frame grounding enough. No need to ground the rails if all the panel frames are grounded, they will get their ground from the panel frames. Though it doesn't hurt, either. There is no such thing as too much when it comes to grounding :-)
It is only one wire going from rail to rail and finally attaches to the ground bar.
Yes, if you ground all panels individually, you don't need to ground the rails. But with these washers, it is easier, I think.
And the result is surprising. It will be in the next video.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Can't wait! I've never considered it doing it the other way around. In fact, I've never measured the resistance between panel frame and rails on any project so this is breaking new ground for me too :-) We've always drilled a small hole in the bottom of each frame and laid a completely stripped bare wire along the whole string, screwed down to each frame individually. Then brought the wire back through the conduit (leaving the green insulation on that part of it) to the MPPT.
@@junkerzn7312 That is a lot of work grounding every single panel, wow. Each panel has got it's dedicated ground hole already with the symbol next to it. However this does not give you any connection to the actual frame and you still need to use star washers.
I was surprised when I found out none of my panels had any connection to ground at all! I have never used these washers before and due to the anodised aluminium, there is not electrical connection. I was really expecting that some of the clamps had pierced though it but I measured the whole west roof and all panels were completely isolated.
Wrong. The panels do not tie to the ground. Ground only the structure for the panels. Some inverter manufacturers specify this in their user manual.
I recently had solar panels installed on our ( 4 inch) concrete roof, I noticed by your video your grounding each panel, yet as I had observed when installing my panels the installer only grounded the frame. Thank you.
I have grounded only the rail, but used these ground washers to poke through the anodized layer on the aluminium frames of the panels and rails.
It depends on your local rules and regulations.
Ok, thanks , I may install this on my panels away as a safety precaution. Thanks again.
Hey Andy, Great job trying to keep up with the endless regs that keep popping up, just one thing @ 7:24 not a big issue but should there not be a serrated washer under the head of the bolt to dig into the anodizing. Would be interesting to test that joint on your next update!!! I have some panels facing north at a 17 degree angle and upped it to 27 degrees with a 20% gain in production. Have you thought about angling your panels for the winter sun?
Thanks Glen. There are star washers at this connection, I said this at 7:35 😁
I have located some additional space for solar winter production which does not get shaded. There are just too many projects and I need to work through them one by one...
Thanks, great job! at 26:49 I thougt: "No, do not pull it out now. First fix a cord, to the end of the wire so that it will get easier to pull back the new wire". But you managed it anyway! Kudos
Of course, I should have thought about that.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia you managed it in record time!
Andy if you could answer this, or if you want to do a video on it.
Is it required to ground your battery banks? My thoughts are grounding the negative terminal and running that back to the ground rod.. any ideas on this?
I just went out to measure resistance to ground on my tin shed which has 16 250 watt panels I don’t have any earth leads although I do plan on putting them on. My measurements were such that the resistance between the shed and the panels was affectively zero so I guess the ground has already been made through the rack mounting to the shed. I do have an earth which is joined to my 240v grid supply which joins to The earthing rod next to my meter box.
Yeah, usually any building structure cannot be used as grounding. It may help with overall resistance but the panels always need to have their own dedicated ground wire. If you get rust on your roof for example, the connection will get really bad.
You can test your rail joint. Install an earth lug on each side. Do not wire together. Measure resistance between the two earth logs.
This is only a partial test. The real test happens after months and years in the elements. Will your joint retain conductivity as well as the manufacturers joint?
Edit: I suspect your joint is as good or better, and I'd only do a single earth lug on that joined rail.
I will do the test in the next video.
Just a suggestion, but have you considered using western union splices for joining two wires. Stronger and neater appearance.
Goood Morning from norway 😁
What kind of spec on the new double wire u are installing on the panels,?
I am looking for a choise for solar cable,, for atleast 20/30 meters.
Thanks again for cool videos 👍👍👍
This is double insulated twin 4mm2 solar cable I'm using. These come in 4mm and 6mm (for longer runs or parallel connections)
I just use rail flipped over and tapped as my rail joins, the profile works perfectly flipped.
Amazing video thank you so much. may I ask a question? I am off grid and I have seen some people say that the panels should be earthed to their own earth rod and then the system earthed to another earth rod. my panels are very close to my system. Do you think that is necessary or even correct? with so much conflicting information it is hard to know. thank you in advance.
I have discussed this with my electrician, and it is not necessary. Everything should be bound to the same earth point anyway.
On automobiles they use a special "grounding" or "electrical" washers on the ground cable lug-to-chassis interface. It is a "star" washer with internal and external "teeth".
If your next episode has a "nudity test", think I'll skip that one! 😂🤣😂
25C in Aus, 40C here in the UK today 🥵 you can have your heat back soon 👍👍
Great vid as always 👍🍻🍻
Thank you, stay safe and cool over there!
What about earthing to a 1.5m to 2m copper rod that is dug deep into the ground or to a lightning protector in the combiner box? I worry about earthing to main bus bar in the house as sometimes you find hybrid inverter that merge/bond the neutral and the grounding together
The main earth bar is connected to the earth rod outside of the garage.
With the Victron inverters I can connect/disconnect the internal bonding depending on the installation requirements. I have them connected as I'm off-grid and create my own grid with M.E.N. link inside the garage.
Thanks for you video and information. Have had solar installed in early 2018 and there is no earth wire to be seen. Could you please link to the regulation?
Totally depends where you live. You can google most regulations and rules for your region.
Seems totally bonkers to me also on an iron roof.it's a bit like fitting those isolators on the roof. The professional installer who did mine allowed water to enter the conduit which flooded the isolator switch and it caught on fire the next sunny day. Luckily I have an iron roof and the damage was cosmetic. No earth wires but what is to point on an iron roof that is grounded by my steel framed house. The more safety we add the more problems we are creating. If you measure the resistance to ground between the earth and the house frame in my case it is close to 0 ohms and you can't generate a high voltage across that. What problem are the regulations trying to solve?
Very nice system I'm sorry to see all that shading from the trees
Shading makes this whole setup interesting.
Back in 92' I worked for a industrial service company and we built and installed ignition systems on industrial natural gas engines. The tech that designed the systems and taught me how to do the building of the wiring headers and stainless shielded ignition leads. He insisted that all the weatherproof connectors be filled with silicone. After working there for 3 years and getting to rebuild some old systems it became obvious that the acid in the silicone actually caused corrosion. I think dielectric grease would be better!
This silicon is acid free 😉 It does not have this typical vinegar smell.
Nice work! I hope you have used natural curing silicone?! The acid cure silicone actually causes corrosion so we don't normally use it to seal any type or electrical connections.
No acid or vinegar in this one...
I've seen/done that, and some time later I had need to remove the silcone and re-do the join - it was all green and corroded. I did shake my head when I saw you put silicone on copper. Good news that it can be done - with the correct silicone. I've never realised there were different curing silicones. What was the product you used Andy?
Acid cure silicone is not common here in oz you would only find it as a specialised product for glass etc and would be 3-4 times rhe price of General purpose, builders, or roof n gutter silicone
Lucky you, our high today (and for the past two weeks) is about 43 to 44° Celsius. During February we may have days that only get to 25°, but very, very few cloudy days. My roof is two stories, and I am over 60, so I hire people. If I was 10 years younger I would probably attempt it myself, but I am not, so I won't. It's "monsoon season", which means about dusk we might get some clouds build up, and a trace of rain. The mountains surrounding us get lots of rain this time of year, but relatively little here. We average around 175 millimeters a year of rain. FYI, this connection is what noalox or Ox-Gard is for, the copper to aluminum galvanic corrosion is a common problem. I think you tried carbon grease, same thing just more expensive and not as well tested (just because it hasn't existed as long). The objective is to not let oxygen in, supposedly the zinc is a sacrificial ingredient to corrode first (I have my doubts). If the silicone has a vinegar smell, you may have just encouraged corrosion (but I don't really know).
Thanks John, the silicon does not have this smell, no. I hate this smell and would never have bought it 😉
Grüße aus Berlin/Brandenburg und mach weiter so
Danke Dir!
I watched another video that explained the ground earth isn't part of the DC Solar circuit. Eg. A car, for example, doesn't use an earth rod connection, obviously. A further explanation indicated that in the event of a lightning strike, the earth grounded frames become a 'magnet' to the lightning bolt. It was also pointed out that the voltaic cells are independent of the frame. So, this is a very contestable subject. So, like installing a car stereo, you would need to ground it, but, not the earth ground. I am not an electrician in anyway, but, the other video made logical sense, to me anyway.
Very nice video Andy. Thinking about the PV panel frame. We should measure if all the Alu sides are inter connected. If not, 4 corner grounding is justified. But I ordered only 1 piercing metal per panel as I didn't thought about it before.. Also, there is a better putty for waterproofing connectors . One, that you can undo. For electricians. It's like a chewing gum, sticky stuff. Silicone is not good enough. Probably no silicone is better. Lugs should be better also than exposed wire. They may vibrate lose and corrode, in my humble opinion. Cheers from Pavel
Im living completely off-grid and concidering not to ground any of my panels. Its a small system. I only have 2,1kWp installed, 24V panels. The reason for not grounding is that Im affraid of lightning strikes damaging the entire system. If not grounded its basically a metal roof and to my knowledge we havent had a single strike on the house (high trees surrounding the building) since it was built for around 50 years ago. If I ground the panels I will basically creating a lightning rod, which is not good for the system nor my cabin. Any thoughts on this?
Where can you find these actual Australian requirements? I have tried many times and failed. I am not going grid tied and not bothering with RECs.
Sir, Can I use16mm deformed bar as grounding rod?. Thanks!
I assembled, tested, pre-inspected (an actual inspector inspected the product), and installed wire assemblies, power cables, avionics racks, electrical power centers(below the cabin, forward of the wingroot/fuselage join on "wide body" A/C; and behind the pilot on the "narrow body" aircraft); military aircraft.... The Hughes Flexible Automatic Circuit Tester (FACT 2000)"rung-out" the wires and circuits per the configuration, and revision, on commercial aircraft. The military aircraft wire verification was accomplished by a DITMITCO(?) Tester. "Continuity" was a Ohmic value, determined by the F.A.A. I think that is =>22ohms. There's another test for "leakage" of the insulation, connector bodies, etc. The leak test identified faulty insulation, incorrect cavity positions, shorts to ground, flaws int the test cables, etc. It had a "range" of Rho-mic values as well. The military wire assemblies, avionics racks, etc., were tested to much higher degrees/standards(Continuity, Leakage, and...for a longer duration of time). The commercial aircraft testing system would fry reed switches and smoke power supplies (depending upon the amount of stress that they were subjected). The military testing apparatus would constantly roast stuff. Our aircraft had 3 redundant systems for all computers, etc. That is ONE ONLINE AND THREE BACK-UPS! Three are required (per the FARs). Our aircraft had one extra device (#4), so the aircraft would still be airworthy -with one device dysfunctional. So each electrical circuit has atleast five paths to the pilot's interface. At the time I was building those aircraft: the main avionics rack had around 10,000 wires in it. Tiny 20, 22, and 24 guage wires. With tiny letters identifying the assembly, wire #, and guage... stamped every 6 (?) Inches along the runs and every 3(?) inches at the beginning and ending 4(?)feet. Yes, circuit Continuity has different levels of acceptance, depending upon the application.
I have a bucket of earth lugs with those nuts that don't fit any rail I have.
If you or a friend are heading up this way you can have them, if you need more in the future. Just buy nuts for use with different rail.
Use a cheap wire stripper tool that spreads the cable insulation in situ. You can easily bare 15mm for every earth clamp.
There is a problem with cold gal paint. It provides some galvanic protection, but it still allows oxygen through to cause oxidisation. We just used grey enamel spray paint. Silicone is a better solution.
Love those conduit clamps. Don't trust cheap flexible conduit in the sun.
In summer the rain can come from Cicadas..
Somebody pointed out that the acetic acid in the silicone causes corrosion. There are non acid silicones.
I think this might be a can o worms.
I live near a busy small airport, it's annoying at times. And I think the trainee pilots are told to fly to the farm with the solar arrays then go back.
Thanks Andrew, for now I have all the clamps I need for my setup, just need more of these washers.
The silicon has no acid in it afaik.
Wow I learnt something today. 4 panel earthing washers per panel?? I have only been using 1!
That's our rules down here, check with your local regulations.
I found sometimes the frame corners don't make good contact with each other so this might be the reason they want now 4 washers.
Same we were just using the one per panel. Pretty sure your supposed to be a qualified electrician to do any work on voltages over a certain amount which I think they may have just lowered ( not sure of the actual voltages). The crimps do come with the clenergy earth clamps but we didn't use the either but we were doubling the wire up and twisting which fit the lug better ( 6mm was tight) with CRC zinc it spray to protect.
Can you test the resistance of the joints to prove you don't need a grounding splice cable. I have doubted needed this also, but still required by code.
You only need 1 weeb washer per panel and you can share for 2 panels. This is all unnecessary now that most racking uses grounding approved clamps.
And you do need 1 continuous ground for all connections from circuit panel OR separate ground wires permanently tied(crimped together).
Thank you for following up with proper weeb grounding lugs. These are also designed for bare solid copper wire which doesn't need to be in conduit if larger than 8awg.
I do a full grounding test in the next video.
One washer will certainly be enough but sometimes the panel frames don't quite touch enough in the corners, so hence they upped the rules to have 4 of them.
In stead of silicon, use liquid insolation paint, like heat shrink.
I've never seen it written somewhere but for grounding aluminium mounting frame you should go all aluminium and stainless, no copper mixing before the very last part.
Every aluminium part should be linked with aluminium cable and mounting with stainless screw, and a aluminium to copper crimp ferrule with anti oxidation grease in it when transitioning to copper.
Mixing in copper cable outside is asking for corrosion problems.
Yes professionals use copper but i don't think most think about the galvanic corrosion.
Sorry. Stainless steel is reactive with aluminum and will corrode it. This is because they are dissimilar metals.
"Continuity" tester...haha. In USA they are referred to as "Mega-Ohm-Meters". Basically a ultra low ohm scale meter. Very important for low voltage and/or high current circuits. Low voltages need super clean contacts, terminations, and fat conductors. High current circuits require adequate wire guage and good terminations as well. Remember: I^2R=P... Gota have a low resistance path. Excellent installation...first class. Those square grounding "washers" are too cute! Drip loops are important in exterior wiring, just saying. Would be interesting to see how that zinc stuff performs...
Yeah, different names for that same tester. And it is continudity tester, btw 😊
In the US, I used to sell “continuity testers”,
not sure when the name changed.
@@DavidHalko That’s Andy’s humour, we also call them a Mega Tester, all the same.unit, different name for different folks.
don't you mean micro-ohm-meter? not mega?
@@DavidHalko I may have conflate some words: the tester we used to measure the resistance to the ground plane was called a "megger" not "Mega-Ohm-Meter". There was another word or trade name of a meter used for the same purpose. Memory is getting rusty....1986....USARMY Communications Electronics Installation Bn. We built comm-centers, satcom terminals....
Anodize is a conversion coating which builds a oxidation layer to (help) prevent corrosion. Does not make aluminum stronger.
Thank you!
The problem being an engineer is we are a doomed race, if the limits of accuracy is up for question there will be another engineer who doubts the first engineers decision on the best thing to do to make it right.
It ends up being a loop of the correct action to take to solve it.
In the end, the job is done so well that the pyramids of Egypt are reduced to dust before the work on them panels returned to nature.
I love this one! Great comment.
may I know the ground cable size you use?
Thanks Andy. 👍 Cheers.
My grid connect system all went up on the roof in 2010. It’s not grounded.
I don’t really lose any sleep over it.
I honestly suspect the reg is there to stop potential electrocution, and don’t believe it would help much with a lightning strike. There is just too much energy in lightning. Does anyone have evidence on this?
A lot of the regs are bloody stupid anyway, like those damned roof top isolators which were required here in Australia from about 2012? to 2021, that have caused a massive number of roof top fires.
I believe that requirement has gone at long last.
It is more important when you have a grid connected system as the inverter could potentially be faulty and you have full 230V on the panel frames.
I could be wrong but the more you ground it the more it attracts the lightning. Your shed is grounded since it is metal so I would measure the quality of ground as it is first...
@@HG-Pilot You will see this in the next video. The garage is all metal and grounded but NONE of the solar panels were before I used these washers.
And a building or structure is not a ground point. You always need a dedicated earth wire for your equipment. I'm pretty sure this is the same code and rule everywhere in the world.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia This is a strange rule.
I have four strings of solar panels in all 4 × 500 V
Imagine the plus at the beginning of the string gets connected to earth.
Now you are on the roof to measure, of course you start from the minus side of the faulty string, Murphy is it play 😉
Now you place your finger on the minus side and of course it's sunny.
Now you have 500 V traveling through you.
I am quite sure if the MPPT tracker gets faulty and starts conducting power to the solar array it will blow a fuse and if there is no fuse it will burn a PCB track without no doubt.
I love your videos please keep them coming 👍
By the way I'm not losing any sleep either, over not grounding my solar panels 😊
You are right. It is more about electrocution than lighting. The typical grid tied domestic system has no isolation between the PV and mains/grid. This presents two hazards. A fault in the transistors etc in the inverter permitting mains AC to appear on the solar array / PV wiring; loss of isolation in the array itself permitting HV DC to appear on the solar array mounting hardware. Getting yourself across the array hardware and metal roof could result in electrocution. Simply leaning a metal ladder on the eaves troughs (guttering) could also result in death. It's a fairly complex question because there can be things like the metal roof being tied to neutral via the mains entry point, say a riser pole support structs or fascia hook, being tied to neutral by the electricity authority / network and in turn any metal roof that touches the same. The minimum wire thickness specified along with a typical domestic earth stake is absolutely hopeless had handling a direct (that is any part of, not just the main channel) lighting strike. It could handle currents induced in wiring from nearby lightning. Remember that a typical solar panel is rated for use at 1000V (equiv to the USA's 600V rating). The breakdown voltage is far higher for a panel in good stead.
Silicon may help prevent external corrosion, but *galvanic* corrosion is where you have two different metals making contact in the presence of an electrical potential - like in your situation... i assume the recommended treatment stops that
Hi Andy, as soon as my charger reaches absobtion voltage the current drops within 5 min to 0. The absorbtion time is set to 2 hrs. Same settings as you and also the same hardware (only 32 lifePo4) Is this normal?
It depends how fast/slow the battery is been charging. If you current drops quickly after hitting absorption it means your batteries are already full.
Hi Andy, when you pulled the earth cable out you could have attached a string to it so you could attach that string to the new earth cable and pull it through easily. Continuity for plastic coated wires and Continudity for bare wires!!! André in Sydney
Absolutely! 🤦♂️
Hi Andy what kind of cable are you using to connect your solar panels.
I use 4mm solar cables with double insulation.
Just Use Di-Electric Paste On All Copper To Aluminum Connections For Corrosion! Plus ALWAYS Pull Construction String Back With Your Old Wire To Help Pull New In!😁😎
I don't have any copper to aluminium connections. The earth lugs are all Nickel-plated aluminium.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia You do say "Copper Alluminium connection" around 12:40
Is the plastic covering of the earth cable UV resistant?
The cable is not exposed to UV light. It will sit mostly in conduit except the few cm where the clamps are. This location is under the panels, away from direct UV light.
Does the improved earth/grounding make the performance any better? Con tin new a tea
It makes the existing performance safer.
Hi Andy, any update on the popular topic about silicone? hehe :D
Andy u should have taped the old earth cable and the new one together and pulled it out from the bottom it would have made it easier.
That would have not worked as I started at the top of the roof. I should have started from the earth bar and work my way up, shouldn't I?
@@OffGridGarageAustralia it would work. You just over lap the old earth wire with the new one and use electrical tape and make a strong joint and then pull the wire from the bottom. Dont make the tape joint too fat else you might not have enough room to squeeze through. Just tape it at about two place should be fine.
Also since next time your doing it there would be one wire less it would easily come through.
Hi, why not test each of the joints with the earth rail. You have the tools to show which is better. I agree with you
It's in the next video (see, this is part I...). I didn't want to cramp it all in one 60min video... 😉
I agree about that BS in the regulation, perhaps to appease those who might like to live by the book, you should post an image or a YT Short using your battery internal resistance measure to check the resistance across your bridge and the manufacturer bridge?
Next video, my friend, next video...
I didn't want to make this one 90min long 😉
Hej tak for de gode detaljeret videoer , jeg kan varmt anbefale at bruge flere jordspyd som er separate for hver inverter
Are you sure that flexible plastic conduit is UV stable? We have UV stable black ones (like 10 times more expensive)
Yes, it is made for outside conditions. I have one installed since we bought the property in 2009 and it is still flexible like new. We also have orange conduit for underground installation. Both are UV stabilized and resistant.
What is it for?
I can understand your complaint about the excess of packaging for something as robust as those earthing lugs, but it just makes me more frustrated.
I recently received my JK BMS from Hankzor after waiting a month and it was in a box made of the flimsiest cardboard I have ever felt. it was at least 50% bigger than it should have been and the BMS was only wrapped in a single ply thin bubble wrap bag that did not come close to filling the bag. It was able to slide several inches in each direction and up and down (thickness) by at least a 1/2" so that whenever you rotated the box in any direction, the BMS would slide around. Due to this, the box itself was badly damages with one corner almost torn off. Inside, the heat sink plates on each face were bent and one mounting ear was bent downward about 30º. Another one was bent up 170º so that it was almost flat against the rest of the plate.
When I contacted Hankzor, they said that it must be rough handling by the post office in my state and they would no longer ship to my state. I pressed for a replacement, but they would not do that and ended up refunding me only about 30% of my purchase price.
I would rather have too much packaging than too little.
You can log a dispute with AliExpress for a damaged item, either for a refund, discount or re-sending of the product.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia That is what I needed to do in order to get the $38 refund on the $122 purchase. I could not believe how bad the packaging was and that they were not willing to replace it. I will get my JK BMS replacement from a different vendor.
i know inverters need good grounding its not for lightning bolts its to keep the grid from melting true or false?
It's for safety. If a live wire comes in contact with the metal case the safety switch should trip and disconnect the circuit before one touches the metal.
I understand grounding the cabling after the system, but why ground the panels? if any lightning hits, everything is fried anyway and you will discharge to ground which means that you will have a discharge to the house as well(potential depending on distance), correct?
Grounding has nothing to do with lightning protection.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia what does grounding the aluminum frame of a solar panel that is in no way connected to anything in your energy production system do? Seems like lightning is the only energy source that would complete a circuit between the frame and any conductors several inches away...
Why would you use earthing at all. In the Netherlands there is no code or regulation that says you need to earth the panels. I myself can't really think of a reason why this would help (against what?) it will only increase cost.
Potential difference can kill. But yeah, other countries, different regulations. Or none at all. 🤷♂️
Not sure what the point is about the grounding between the profiles that carry the panels?
The roof bracket is insulated with a surface underneath the fastener, but the screw will direct any surge from the AC side up to the profiles and down again to the grounding bus bar - but is there any point?
- Grounding on the outside of the roof should surely be with the disposal of external current that can knock down roof mounts for the main purpose? Lightning will damage the building and the equipment on the roof, but is it desirable then to direct lightning into the garage?
I don't want to disappoint you here but wait for the next video. A roof or building structure is not an earth point.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thanks for the answer, my concern was hot wire and melted insulation give a greater chance of fire in plastic-pipes and finally in the garage.
If you connect copper to aluminum, the aluminium will oxidate before your Copper. That's why you clamp a Zink or Aluminum block to iron things like boats and docks at sea. So I would only worry about the oxidation of the aluminium.
What adsorption and flotation voltage do you have set?
th-cam.com/video/xBu7ScAdKrg/w-d-xo.html
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Muchas gracias Señor por su ayuda.
Completely off-grid and there is no exisiting grid tied earth grounding. Not planning on grounding my panels, or inverters for that matter. I am adding and EMP Shield.
13:51 „bombenfest“ 😂👍 no other word describes it better
Another great video, the reason your ground is not considered legal cuz the manufacture said its not to sell us there expensive cheep brackets hihi…
Do a video exploring lightning protection sometime please. :>)
I'm not an expert in this and have neither the knowledge nor materials, sorry. LP is not a DIY job.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia You started it . :>)
That would be a very interesting subject. Ive always wondered how much protection one can in any form get, from a spark that can travel up to 20 kms through the air and vaporise a huge tree, to preventing a spike in a circuit.
I will forever call it Continudity here forward.
Is that still wrong 😂
It's a hard word for me...
Now you've created a giant lightening rod you need a lightening arrestor in your combiner box because it will have no problem jumping a fuse gap.
In my boat i use "White Vaseline -acid free" on all connections.
Gal spray and not paint pot. Squirt. Squirt and all done. Also, had 4 panels laying up against fence for 5+ years, never earthed. Always moving them in to the sun. Should create a load dump as the panels get noisy when the inverters stop charging in the summer or sunny day.
continuity 😄
Before screwing I do not remove the plastic around the earth cable, the bolt seems to remove it enough to make contact. In fact in manuals I do not see they ask us to remove the plastic. For beter reliability I screw, unscrew then screw again.
But then only the screw would have good contact with the wire, while the wire is still insulated from the actual earth lug. If this is in your regulation 🤷♂️ I would say that's dodgy and not good practice from an electrical perspective.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia but the wire is screwed into the device. In fact there is no need for a massive contact (as show the 4 very little "pins" that make contact under the panels). If the silicon resists to the elements, your solution is the best. But perhaps it makes no difference. Perhaps.
Hello, you should take off the plastic from cable, usually the earth cable should be without plastic because it designed to discharge high charge voltage from lighting.
Screw will go trough the wire insulation so stripping cable is unnesessary.
@@MrRaddoslaw so you're one of those dodgy electricians are you?
Grounding isn't for lightning protection, cross-section area is too small
It depends on your country and rules which ground cable you have to use. Down here a 4mm earth cable would have been enough but I got the 6mm cable for the same price.
In the US the cable is just bare without any insulation. Not in other countries though.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Yes bare AND solid , not stranded .