Four refutations: 1. Mass production allows manufacturers to sell fully built modules far cheaper than we can even buy the parts, let alone produce a PCB. I can get a TP4056 module for 40p. 2. A module on a PCB looks far better than the rat's nest of wires on a typical diy project built on perfboard. You can't compare a 40p module with a £1,000 iPhone. 3. It takes me about 1 minute to change the resistor on a TP4056 module that sets the current, which allows full compatibility with any Li-ion battery. 4. The TP4056 follows exactly the recommended charge phases for a single Li-ion. Nobody needs any other capabilities for 99% of applications.
Not to mention the TP4056 chip can be integrated into your project directly on the motherboard you have fabricated, or adhered in an open space provided, which would look as professional as a bluetooth board does on many commercial products.
@@hogfanboy9443 That's right if you want 100 modules. But my point is that even in small quantities (5 off for example), these fully assembled modules can be bought cheaper than I can get the parts and the pcb.
These charger modules enable us to create a USB input jack into our one-cell projects. Also, to fit litihum cells into a space once occupied by three AA batteries. I have about a dozen different project boxes I have created, and I don't worry as much how they look on the inside as they do on the outside. This allows me to have a flush mount USB jack and I can use the on-board LED indicator by way of a light pipe or opaque insert. When I have a higher voltage project, I use a BMS plus CC-CV DC converter module set to the required parameters.
Okay, so don't use a charger module, that's made with a TP4056 chip. Instead, use a TP4056 chip. Also, what you say about chargers not cutting off their current at the end of charge is complete nonsense. If the charger is regulating the voltage to 4.2V, and the battery is already at 4.2V, zero current will pass. That's how electricity works - if two points are at the same voltage, no current flows between them. There is no such thing as a power supply that continues to deliver current when the load is already at the same voltage. Next, charging current. All of these charging modules have resistors that set the charging current. These typically have a resistor in place that will charge at 1 Amp, but it is easy to change the resistor to match the current that your battery needs. Next, low-voltage cutoff. You are right, charger circuits do not shut off the load when the battery drops below a threshold. But that's where you still have other options. First, if you're using a battery that has a built-in BMS, it will take care of this for you. But second, you can use a charger module that also includes the BMS chip and MOSFETs. Those are still cheaper than the parts you would have to buy to put them on your circuit board. Finally your circuit will look unprofessional? Here's a hint: package your product so that the internal circuitry isn't visible, and make internal interconnections tidy. I wouldn't know if my phone used a charger module, because my phone is kind of permanently sealed. Now I'll admit, if I was making a commercial product that will need to be manufactured in runs of 1000 or more, I would incorporate the charging circuit on the main circuit board, but for low-volume runs, charging modules, and even other modules or "breakout boards" for specialized chips can make sense, especially where there are multiple chips that can be used for a given function, without affecting circuit operation. This can prevent having to make a new circuit board when it becomes difficult to get a specific chip, and with many chips evolving in 6-month cycles, you never know if you're going to have to change chips. So yeah, if I'm designing something that will be low-volume, I have no qualms at all about using modules.
I'm with you man, this is snobbery imo. I just ordered a bunch of Tp4056 for a project as they do what I need them to do. They do in fact feed lower current depending on battery condition automatically. Why would I waste so much time and energy on the charger instead of just making the thing happen. I'm not competing with Samsung 😂
The part about setting maximum charge voltage to 1.13 x nominal voltage is just absolutely crazy. Nowhere in the technical literature have I EVER seen that! Yes, it kind of works, for 3.7V nominal lithium ion, or 3.2V nominal LiFePO4, but you should not be telling people to do that calculation. The datasheet will show the maximum charging voltage - just use that. Also, I totally agree with other commenters that using these modules is fine for most projects - you order the correct one for the battery you’re using, and set the charging current according to capacity (usually C/2 or C/3 - again, use the datasheet!). Using the bare chip is only useful if you’re designing your own single-PCB solution - modules are always cheaper and easier for every other case.
You can change the charging current on those charger pcb boards by changing their resistor values. Look at what your battery requires on its data sheet and adjust the resistance on the board for your particular application.
I bought some small modules recently for about a dollar each from Amazon. They use the TP4056 and the additional protection circuitry using the parts you mentioned. I couldn't come anywhere close to that cost buying the parts from authorized vendors unless I were buying to build at least tens of thousands of boards. I've encounter a few people over the years who insist on building stuff they could buy. I think they're nuts. And I did electronics design for a living - if you can call it that.
The TP4056 should really be combined with the DW01 and a dual NMOS like the FS8205A, so that it has over current and under voltage protection. There are good guides online for hobbyists on how to implement the circuit.
It depends. I suggest that you should ideally not use bare cells but protected ones, which will already contain exactly the DW01 and dual NMOS combo as well as phone batteries have a built-in thermistor that you can wire into your charge circuit for even more safety. You can equip 18650s with add on protection PCB on the terminal. If you use such protected cells, there's no point to integrate the protection into the charge circuit, and it's more comprehensive since it's better placed. In turn combo tp4056 and dw01 protection circuit boards are exceptionally common. I would like to note though that these usually lack the inline power resistor 0R4 that you see in the TP4056 reference usage schematic and induce the chip to heat a little much at the very start of the charge cycle, but if you trim down the current for low-capacity cells anyway, then you don't need to worry about it either.
@@SianaGearz you should never rely on built in protection on cells, it is meant as the last line of protection. Also there are plenty of times when you can’t get or use protected cells, just know how to use the cells safely and you will be fine.
@@conorstewart2214 DW01+8205 on the charger PCB is not anyhow better than DW01+8205 it being integrated into the battery package. You often have no choice but to rely on the protection circuit to defend cells against deep discharge. Not that deep discharge is a very hazardous event when a real charger IC is involved, but it's presumably not healthy either. Overcharge protection in DW01 will never trigger in normal operation due to charger IC logic, BUT, that and short circuit protection, well, accidents happen, crowbars fall down across contacts, semiconductors fail, better to have that on the cell than not to, if you have the choice - which you unfortunately don't always do.
Good/useful note about temp sensing; I’ve used a fair number of batteries and charger modules, and wasn’t even aware there were batteries with thermistors built into them. Most small electronic projects don’t stress the batteries to the extent that we have to worry about temperature rise, but it’s good to know about the batteries with thermistors in them if we need to make something with high power drain and/or using very fast charging. Thanks!
Often you don’t need temperature sensing for high current applications either, just look at most drones, high discharge currents and no temperature sensing. Don’t thermally insulate your battery too much and stay within the current rating and capacity and you will be fine.
@@conorstewart2214 Hmmm ok if it has an internal thermistor the charger senses high internal resistance. Well it doesn't. It just senses low current draw, and stops charging.
You simply don't know what you're talking about! I'm a retired EE with about 20 years' experience designing commercial and industrial products around batteries so maybe I can offer some experienced-based advice. First, you "evaluated" an obsolete board. The current board that does everything is this one: th-cam.com/video/cTzu8LSSqVY/w-d-xo.html This board includes the DW01 cell protection chip. This guy th-cam.com/video/cTzu8LSSqVY/w-d-xo.html Puts that board through a torture test. He learned the same thing I have and that is, it offers comprehensive charging and protection for a single cell. If you'd actually studied the TP4056 data sheet or, *gasp* tested it you'd know that one resistor sets the charge current and another sets the charge termination voltage. That board comes set to 1 amp and 4.2 volts. Don't like those values? Change the resisters. Too expensive? My last order was 10 boards for $9.98. Is a single dollar too much for you? One can't buy a quality USB socket in small quantities for that. Plus, I don't have to waste time laying out the board. Sloppy looking? Well, maybe the way you work. I design the main board so that this daughter board slides nicely onto pins and is soldered in place. No professional makes a perfboard or equiv prototype. We SPICE the circuit until it works, lay out the board accordingly and have a few pre-production units made. I'm currently working on a product that uses a single 16850. I selected the USB-C version of the board I referenced. The custom enclosure is designed such that when the main boars is screwed down, the daughter-board's USB-C port aligns exactly with the oval hole I put in the enclosure. Maybe next time, you can be a little less wrong.
As an electronic engineering student, your videos are very detailed sir! I literally learned a lot from you sir, Thank you for sharing your insights. God bless!!
Sir is a noble title. Use Mr. instead. I like when 3th world ppl talking on 'sir', especially to the white ones.... Or comrade, if you are for the SVO ;D
This is not a channel for hobbyist. This is more so for professionals who are familiar with electrical engineering already and wants to build a custom everything and stay away from open source/ widely used components. Now I actually agree with many of the suggestions he provides when doing electrical engineering in a professional setting. But I think most people watching these videos are young engineers and hobbyist looking to make cool things with the least amount of work. Now I'm sure it is crucial to select a proper charging IC when building products in industry but most hobbyists would ideally not like to design their own PCB for their first attempt at a project. the TP4056 is a perfectly fine board and it accomplishes what most hobbyists needs. I really enjoyed some of the other videos he does particularly the one with the POV display. But some of these videos that discourage against breakout boards and Arduino products is doing a disservice to new hobbyists and young engineers. I believe the suggestions you provide are helpful but the practicality that someone will opt to design their own charging circuit and source the appropriate IC, instead of using a breakout boards is very unlikely, the potential benefits of doing so does not out weight the time it will take to sources parts designs a PCB and assemble the PCB, and I don't think you can do all these steps cheaper than the TP4056 manufacturers.
There is no such thing as a "nominal current" of a rechargeable battery. What you read on the battery at 3:55 was the battery's rated _capacity_ of 2000mAh. That's a charge in milliamp-hours, not a current in milliamps. The capacity is an indication of the product of current and time before your battery runs out of usable charge, for example 200mA for 10 hours, or 1000mA for 2hours, etc. Your advice to charge at the three-hour rate (sometimes called "C/3") is a reasonable compromise, but won't suit every rechargeable battery available.
@@BTW... The two terms are commonly used interchangeably to describe a single-cell battery. To be precise, a cell is single electrochemical device and a battery is an array of cells. The common 1.5V AA battery is also a cell, whereas the 9V PP3 battery is composed of 6 cells, connected in series. HTH.
@@elewizard I don’t know if maybe you don’t know what you are saying but comments like this make you look like you are mocking them and are being insulting.
Very cool! So am I to understand that the constant current/constant voltage charging phases happen automatically? I had heard of these phases before, but I always assumed it was some kind of smart IC that decided to switch phases. I didn't realize it was even possible to do the two phases with a bench supply.
Yes it is done automatically! The whole process is simple, actually there is a variable resistor(something like a MOSFET) is restricting current and it cause such behavior 😊
If you limit voltage and current power supply will automatically use more restrictive limit and that happens automatically so those pashe will also happen automatically, only you are missing is precharge capability. But for charging lead acide batteries you do not even need constant current, perferd way to charge them is just using constant voltage.
@@Kalvinjj yes, you charge them by constant current, but they are tricky to detect when to stop charging. You can do that by two methods, to monitore temperature rise ( when temperature start rising by 1C per minute they are fully charged) or to look for voltage signature (on them voltage rise till they are charging and then when they are fully charged voltage have slight drop). For fast chargers other method is performed. Second method is complicated then charging lithium based batteries, for constant current constant voltage you need just two comparators, one pass transtors, voltage reference and couple of passive elements, you can make that circuit extremely easy (if you use BJT, FET/MOSFET are more tricky, if you use them you will most likely get oscillator, if you do not carful design feedback, that why most of charging ic or linear regulators do not use FET as pass element, FET are used in lab power supply's for example from HP (and all companies what are spun of HP) but for low power battery charging FET are not needed and to much complications for no any advantages)
@@mrlazda If the charging current for Ni-Cd cells is low enough they can be left on the charger indefinitely. Usually at this current a fully discharged cell will require around 14 hours to charge.
I learn every time I’m in your channel. For a while I’ve always wondered how to configure my power supply for its constant current or voltage procedures. Super thanks!
Watch.... when you first set voltage and the current, the voltage will drop a few bits when the battery is connected, but if you, by accident, change the voltage pot to a higher voltage, you will NOT see the voltage change, until the battery gets full, and if unlucky it can go far over the set voltage. After all the setting is done disconnect the battery once to see if the voltage is still set correct before you leave it charging.
I would be interested in a video from you where IP2312 is compared to TP4056. I know the TP4056 reduces the charge voltage by "throwing away" heat, sort of like a programmable resistor in series with the charge circuit. This means they are best used when installed against a heat sink (attached to the bottom of the module, not the top). One clarification to what you said, charging current of these modules is definitely under your control by varying the current setting resistor to the desired current, either by changing it or extending it to a potentiometer or multipole switch in combination with resistors.
at first it was difficult to listen, because I do have deficits in managing your accent. Regarding the charge of batteries you answered nearly all questions I asked myself for a long time - great! Good explained thank you
Not always is the yellow wire for thermal monitoring. In my LIPO packs for my RC equipment, the additional wire(s) in the battery connector are for voltage measurement of the individual cells when charging/discharging. 1 wire for each cell. So if I have a 2S, there is 3 wires in the connector total, 3S- 4 wires, 4S-5wires, etc. And yes, there still can be a thermistor imbedded in the pack as well, resulting in one more wire to the total. You can very easily tell if the battery pack has thermal sensing or not, but at least on the RC LIPO packs I'm familiar with, the additional wire(s) are for voltage sense of the individual cells.
@@elewizard their point was that someone not very knowledgeable could pick up a 2S battery, see it has three wires and assume one is temperature, often lower current rated 2S batteries only have a 3 wire balance connector and not the usual power connector too.
Hi , great content. I'd like to see a project and description of multi cell lipo charging. There must be a way of doing this safely with fairly simple circuitry. Cheers
I will make a video and do such a project in the video. I am planning to make a battery powered portable bench power supply. You will learn how to charge multi cell batteries there!
Multi cell charging of any lithium type can be fairly simple if you buy rather expensive ICs designed to do that. Maintaining balanced voltage of all cells is critical to good battery lifetime. Active circuity is necessary to monitor and control that process. Good balancing with rapid charging is quite demanding. Years ago I designed a charger for a military multi-cell lithium ion battery (actually two separate batteries in one case). The circuitry inside the case consisted of a PIC microcontroller and an incredible number of discrete components (times two, one board for each battery). There are easier ways to do it now, but it gives an indication of the complexity of the problem.
These videos are getting better. Please focus on advanced content, there's already too many YT channels covering basic electronics. I prefer to see cct diagrams in the videos, not just verbal descriptions
Usually I like your videos but this one I totally disagree. All those 'simple" modules have charging ICs so I don't get it what is the problem. if I have a 1 cell Lipo Battery I'll buy charging module for 1S LiPo configuration . If I have 1 cell LiIon i will buy charging module configured for LiIons so where is the problem?
Main reason is integration, if you learn to use ICs, you can integrate charger circuit with your main circuit. Think about a project where you need to monitor charging process using microcontroller!
In the video he says the problem is basically cost, appearance, and fixed charging configuration. The first two probably dont matter for just a hobby project, only for making something you want to sell. Also they cant talk to your Arduino and tell it charging info for you to display on an LCD or something.
thank you for a very useful discussion. i certainly have very little use for the pre-built modules, and i very much value your advice regarding these chips. i have three questions, and i wonder if you might help me. in my application, i wish to monitor the battery condition very carefully while charging, because i am recycling batteries, and need to be able to match them in multiple cell packs, according to their condition. do you know if i can monitor the voltage on the PROG pin of TP-4056 in order to know the instantaneous charge current, like in the LTC4054? second, do you know of any charger chips that would also do over voltage protection on discharge? finally, do you know what R value NTC is correct for the TP-4056? the specs do not seem to mention this.
I became interested (obsessed) with electronics as a kid in the late 1950s and have spent a significant fraction of my life designing electronics for everything from model aircraft to automated electroplating lines and from submarines to the Huygens lander so I no longer think I have anything to prove. In my retirement I'm making one-offs and I'm more than happy to take any short-cut going and modules are obviously one of them. At my age time is the main thing I'm lacking and that's a big driver.
When i start to see your video.... First my eyes go to your components organiser sleve/Box..(left) And then water bottle (right) By the way great video.... Thank sir.....
Nice video. I have some cheap usb battery cellphone chargers. Im cracking them open for the circuit and i hope to disconnect the battery and replace with a smaller battery for my esp32 drone. Any tips for this process i appreciate your help
I think internal resistance of the accumulator is the major part limiting the current during charging, aside from the power source amperage of course. If leads resistance is the limiting factor, I reckon it's time to change the leads 😉😁
Great video! If the input voltage to the charging IC is 5V, what is the output voltage from this IC? From the video as well, I learnt that the charging IC can make our work original. This is awesome! Please, can you also make a video on how we can use switch-mode-transformers to build our own power source from a scratch. Thanks.
Nice video. COST? I couldn't build that for less than the selling price. 10 for $8. Looks? I am not APPLE and that looks better than anything I could build. Can the charging equations be used for NiMH cells?
@@elewizard do you know you audience at all? Your audience will be mainly hobbyists not people designing things for mass production. Do you really think people interested in mass production will be watching a TH-cam video about charging modules?
Exactly, there is nothing wrong with using modules, I have no idea what this guys problem is or maybe he doesn’t know his audience, most people watching these videos will be hobbyists making one off or open source projects so using modules is fine.
Good job. Bravo. Continuez ce bon travail. Bonne explications bonne diction très compréhensible si on n'est pas un anglophone. Bonne prononciation et bonne vitesse. Vielen Dank.
One issue is those pouch cells usually contain a BMS board. If you try charging with a USB bms board designed for a naked battery, it will sense that the battery is low and needs more current and get confused.
Careful with the terminology of; 'cell' and a 'battery', being individual cells connected to produce higher voltages (series connected) and/or storage capacity (parallel connection). Look how many refer to a single 3.7V Li cell as being a 'battery' in the comments.
I've used them many times in my projects( the USB to 1s cell buck converter.) and set the charge current appropriately via a resistor. Have not had a problem. Even cut up boards to shrink them to a quarter of their original size. Vetted the boards with a couple charge cycles monitoring voltage and current to make sure everything was in Spec all lipo batteries I use have a protection board built in. The charging modules cost me less than a dollar each. Some I've had for over 10 years all still working without problems. If I was mass producing a consumer product I would use just a chip and design it in to the product for bottom line cost savings. But most of us simply don't do that.
Thanks for video. At 4:00 you say that the NC=2000mA for that battery. But what is printed on the casing is 2000mAh of capacity. That doesn't mean that the correct charging current is 2000mA/3 ?
hi i have an 18650 cahrger for my lithium batteries but i also have some nimh AA batteries and i was under the impression i cannot charge the AA batteries with the lithium charger but i have managed to charge them with the same charger anyway and they charged fine. I am worried maybe it will damage the batteries in the long run but i dont know. I have chaecked with a multimeter and it does indeed charge them fine.
Wow this answers a lot of questions I couldn't find the answer to on forums full of electrical engineers. I am trying to design a switching module BMS for a 48V battery system. This at least gives me the groundwork to get started. I am not sure about using a relay on the output of the chip as this will not give me the correct power consumption from the battery. Would it be possible to use a "divide by" circuit to measure voltage using a smaller chip? In any event, the current would be more important to measure as in this case the voltage source is 54v at 2 amps. Secondly, I suppose I need a chip that can output at least 2 amps, since the relay draws approximately 1.8ah at 48v which seems very high. I would like to activate it independently and measure the actual current being drawn. The fact that there are ICs dedicated to this is great! I was scouring around trying to find a circuit to adapt or use for this project and came up with nothing.
Very nice, I am glad this video was helpful 👍 Yes you can use a resistor based voltage divider to reduce the voltage then measure the reduced voltage 👌
A truly wonderful vidioe so interesting , I would realy like to see it againe a quite in deapth look at charging , very profeshionly given . Much appreciated many thanks ,realy great .
Are you reposting this? Because I seem to remember you got dragged over the coals last time I saw this. TP4056 is dirt cheap and simple. It works. Yes, there are some chips that can charge at a higher rate but you can easily modify the TP's for more than 2A but there are modules that are cheaper for that. The big reasons why the TP is so great is the newest module that has the protection for the output AND if you use isolated power supplies for each module you can build a balance charger for under $20 for up to 100V
I am planning to remove the mains battery in my phone and replace it with 1.5 volt dry batteries unchargeable with a suitable circuit, does this work correctly ? How many batteries do I need ? How complex will the electronic circuit between the phone and the batteries be ? How much will the cost be as an estimate in U.S dollars ? Knowing that my phone is Redmi Note 7.
Could you comment on how to use TP4056 with a external NTC l. If I want to add temperature safety's to an 18650 charge circuit how do I choose a NTC which could limit if temperature goes up?
@@elewizard a 18650 doesn't have a 3rd wire. If I wanted to add a temperature sensor external to the battery, what NTC / digikey part number should I use? I've only found datasheets which specify to connect the sensor which is internal to the battery. I've not found datasheets which details how to choose the NTC.
I bought a same card. Its says use 37% of amp of batter Mah. Its also gave list of resistor to use to get different ampere. Its mannual was great sbd it wss cheap so
1. If you are not making like 10k units, those module will always be cheaper than building your own. 2. You can design it to sit on top of your PCB using long header. 3. False, the module's charging current and voltage are both configurable. 4. This is the only good argument you are making, but from my experience making a "v1" that solved the original design's problem first, and then make a "v2 -- premium" version later and now you can sold them twice, is a better sale strategy.
Thank you sir, as soon as I saw your YT name I hit subscribe, I have some of these prebuilt charging modules but some don't work (guess I can strip and repurpose - maybe using a variable resistor in "Prog") to revive some "did you say ZERO volt" batteries? I just bought a huge amount of these in a recycle project. I figured if it is ZERO then it is dead (and my "smart" charger doesn't even charge them from zero OR .01V)
Can you explain why, when the voltage is constant, the current goes down? If I understood the equation I = V/R correctly, then when the voltage is constant, the current should remain unchanged since the resistance is also unchanged.
Like they said ohms law doesn’t work for batteries in that way. If you want something similar then look up capacitors and how a circuit with a resistor and capacitor behaves.
Thank you both for the reply. My question would be more about why does the current goes down when the voltage is constant. Are there laws that would help me in understanding why does this happen with more details? PS: even a video that does explain that would be fine by me.
@@PetitOiseau-b1w the voltage on the power supply is constant but the battery voltage is lower than what the supply says. use a voltmeter as cloe to the battey cell contact as possible to see where the battery voltage actually is.
@@PetitOiseau-b1w i=(Vsupply-Vbattery)/R When you start charging Vbattery is low and voltage difference (Vsupply-Vbattery) is bigger so the current is higher. When battery is nearly charged voltage difference (Vsupply-Vbattery) is low because battery is charged so the current drops. Vbattery is nearly equal to Vsupply and the current drops ewentually reaching 0 mA.
I prefer to set power supply voltage somewhere just above the measured voltage of the lipo and ramp it up gradually as the voltage of the cell catches up until we get to 4.18/20/35 if you're feeling saucy
@@elewizard Oh I do have many efficient modules for charging cells. I simply prefer to manually monitor them in some circumstances. If a cell is potentially bad for example, best option is to manually charge from power supply and keep close watch.
@@yodaco what you are doing just isn’t safe, you would be far better setting a current limit and then monitoring it rather than just adjusting the voltage manually. Also charging your batteries with higher than their rated voltage will damage them. When you can get proper battery chargers cheap, doing what you are doing isn’t worth it.
@@conorstewart2214 haha, oh yes. I know well the safety and lack thereof, I just don't care you see I am many many years in the game. You can't school me on the ins and outs of it I assure you. All I will say is I do set a current limit i'm not insane. I just ramp things up gradually which believe me is perfectly safe compared to using any charging circuit with faith. I don't care for the life of the cells I slightly over charge them on purpose you see I will drain them to death also.
@@yodaco i agree with you i do the same thing. most people don't get that the battery voltage is always lower than the reading on the supply unless there is no current being drawn.any resistance between the actual cell and power supply output will drastically slow the near full charge stage thus i higher voltage is needed to charge at a decent rate. the bms built into the battery will cut off if something goes wrong.
The formula that derives the charge termination voltage from nominal voltage doesn't exist, as it depends both on the charge termination voltage as well as knee voltage when the cell is exhausted. 3.6V nominal cells are generally fine with 4.2V termination voltage (500 cycle life nominal), 3.7 and 3.8V ones are usually used at substantially higher charge termination voltages, HOWEVER you can just charge them to 4.2V and you'll get more cycle life out of them, so i think the charge termination voltage of a typical module comes out perfectly OK! Current trimming existing modules is very easy. I have also seen a chip for power bank which doesn't need to be current trimmed, it trims itself by driving towards a certain voltage gradient, and some devices and modules based on that. It's also convenient for powering your electronics since the cell voltage range is both too high for 3.3V ICs and too low for 3.3V regulator inputs. Word of note: many TP4056 boards are missing the supply resistor (0R4 nominal), causing the chip to excessively heat early in the charge cycle. Unless you trim it for lower current, at which point that's OK anyway.
Amazing your videos , thanks for share your experience, im learning electronic and has very nice content interesting, keep doing, you explain super good ! Congratulations , i like so much whatch videos with people to really love this amazing world, is Very satisfactory practice and learn every day more ! Thanks again !
Four refutations: 1. Mass production allows manufacturers to sell fully built modules far cheaper than we can even buy the parts, let alone produce a PCB. I can get a TP4056 module for 40p.
2. A module on a PCB looks far better than the rat's nest of wires on a typical diy project built on perfboard. You can't compare a 40p module with a £1,000 iPhone.
3. It takes me about 1 minute to change the resistor on a TP4056 module that sets the current, which allows full compatibility with any Li-ion battery.
4. The TP4056 follows exactly the recommended charge phases for a single Li-ion. Nobody needs any other capabilities for 99% of applications.
Well done man. You are professional 👍
Not to mention the TP4056 chip can be integrated into your project directly on the motherboard you have fabricated, or adhered in an open space provided, which would look as professional as a bluetooth board does on many commercial products.
40p sounds high, I ordered 100pcs from Aliexpress for $18. delivered.
@@hogfanboy9443 That's right if you want 100 modules. But my point is that even in small quantities (5 off for example), these fully assembled modules can be bought cheaper than I can get the parts and the pcb.
Absolutely right!
The modules are super cheap and easy!
HEALTH beep harmful to those using earphones!! (lower the sound on that beep)
Even without
@@amyneko I know I heard it on my speakers and almost fell back in my chair
Sorry about that❤️
Lol my dog jumped
Just don't. "Health" is not a bad word.
These charger modules enable us to create a USB input jack into our one-cell projects. Also, to fit litihum cells into a space once occupied by three AA batteries. I have about a dozen different project boxes I have created, and I don't worry as much how they look on the inside as they do on the outside. This allows me to have a flush mount USB jack and I can use the on-board LED indicator by way of a light pipe or opaque insert. When I have a higher voltage project, I use a BMS plus CC-CV DC converter module set to the required parameters.
Pm me can you to install do sola paint of charger +
Okay, so don't use a charger module, that's made with a TP4056 chip. Instead, use a TP4056 chip.
Also, what you say about chargers not cutting off their current at the end of charge is complete nonsense. If the charger is regulating the voltage to 4.2V, and the battery is already at 4.2V, zero current will pass. That's how electricity works - if two points are at the same voltage, no current flows between them. There is no such thing as a power supply that continues to deliver current when the load is already at the same voltage.
Next, charging current. All of these charging modules have resistors that set the charging current. These typically have a resistor in place that will charge at 1 Amp, but it is easy to change the resistor to match the current that your battery needs.
Next, low-voltage cutoff. You are right, charger circuits do not shut off the load when the battery drops below a threshold. But that's where you still have other options. First, if you're using a battery that has a built-in BMS, it will take care of this for you. But second, you can use a charger module that also includes the BMS chip and MOSFETs. Those are still cheaper than the parts you would have to buy to put them on your circuit board.
Finally your circuit will look unprofessional? Here's a hint: package your product so that the internal circuitry isn't visible, and make internal interconnections tidy. I wouldn't know if my phone used a charger module, because my phone is kind of permanently sealed. Now I'll admit, if I was making a commercial product that will need to be manufactured in runs of 1000 or more, I would incorporate the charging circuit on the main circuit board, but for low-volume runs, charging modules, and even other modules or "breakout boards" for specialized chips can make sense, especially where there are multiple chips that can be used for a given function, without affecting circuit operation. This can prevent having to make a new circuit board when it becomes difficult to get a specific chip, and with many chips evolving in 6-month cycles, you never know if you're going to have to change chips.
So yeah, if I'm designing something that will be low-volume, I have no qualms at all about using modules.
I'm with you man, this is snobbery imo. I just ordered a bunch of Tp4056 for a project as they do what I need them to do. They do in fact feed lower current depending on battery condition automatically. Why would I waste so much time and energy on the charger instead of just making the thing happen.
I'm not competing with Samsung 😂
The part about setting maximum charge voltage to 1.13 x nominal voltage is just absolutely crazy. Nowhere in the technical literature have I EVER seen that! Yes, it kind of works, for 3.7V nominal lithium ion, or 3.2V nominal LiFePO4, but you should not be telling people to do that calculation. The datasheet will show the maximum charging voltage - just use that.
Also, I totally agree with other commenters that using these modules is fine for most projects - you order the correct one for the battery you’re using, and set the charging current according to capacity (usually C/2 or C/3 - again, use the datasheet!).
Using the bare chip is only useful if you’re designing your own single-PCB solution - modules are always cheaper and easier for every other case.
Thank you so much for your feedback. It is appreciated 🌷
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You can change the charging current on those charger pcb boards by changing their resistor values. Look at what your battery requires on its data sheet and adjust the resistance on the board for your particular application.
Yes it is true. What about integration and monitoring!
@elewizard, you picked as example tp4056, which is the same ic that is on those modules, so all it applies to it applies to the module.
I bought some small modules recently for about a dollar each from Amazon. They use the TP4056 and the additional protection circuitry using the parts you mentioned. I couldn't come anywhere close to that cost buying the parts from authorized vendors unless I were buying to build at least tens of thousands of boards.
I've encounter a few people over the years who insist on building stuff they could buy. I think they're nuts. And I did electronics design for a living - if you can call it that.
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With these teaching skills and winning accent, sky's the limit. Good stuff.
I appreciate that!
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The TP4056 should really be combined with the DW01 and a dual NMOS like the FS8205A, so that it has over current and under voltage protection. There are good guides online for hobbyists on how to implement the circuit.
Such implementations are already widely available
It depends. I suggest that you should ideally not use bare cells but protected ones, which will already contain exactly the DW01 and dual NMOS combo as well as phone batteries have a built-in thermistor that you can wire into your charge circuit for even more safety. You can equip 18650s with add on protection PCB on the terminal. If you use such protected cells, there's no point to integrate the protection into the charge circuit, and it's more comprehensive since it's better placed.
In turn combo tp4056 and dw01 protection circuit boards are exceptionally common. I would like to note though that these usually lack the inline power resistor 0R4 that you see in the TP4056 reference usage schematic and induce the chip to heat a little much at the very start of the charge cycle, but if you trim down the current for low-capacity cells anyway, then you don't need to worry about it either.
I believe the DW01 protects the cell from discharging at too high current. The TP4056 protects the cell from charging at too high current.
@@SianaGearz you should never rely on built in protection on cells, it is meant as the last line of protection.
Also there are plenty of times when you can’t get or use protected cells, just know how to use the cells safely and you will be fine.
@@conorstewart2214 DW01+8205 on the charger PCB is not anyhow better than DW01+8205 it being integrated into the battery package.
You often have no choice but to rely on the protection circuit to defend cells against deep discharge. Not that deep discharge is a very hazardous event when a real charger IC is involved, but it's presumably not healthy either.
Overcharge protection in DW01 will never trigger in normal operation due to charger IC logic, BUT, that and short circuit protection, well, accidents happen, crowbars fall down across contacts, semiconductors fail, better to have that on the cell than not to, if you have the choice - which you unfortunately don't always do.
Good/useful note about temp sensing; I’ve used a fair number of batteries and charger modules, and wasn’t even aware there were batteries with thermistors built into them.
Most small electronic projects don’t stress the batteries to the extent that we have to worry about temperature rise, but it’s good to know about the batteries with thermistors in them if we need to make something with high power drain and/or using very fast charging. Thanks!
Yes, exactly. Glad it was helpful
Often you don’t need temperature sensing for high current applications either, just look at most drones, high discharge currents and no temperature sensing. Don’t thermally insulate your battery too much and stay within the current rating and capacity and you will be fine.
@@conorstewart2214
Hmmm ok if it has an internal thermistor the charger senses high internal resistance. Well it doesn't. It just senses low current draw, and stops charging.
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You simply don't know what you're talking about! I'm a retired EE with about 20 years' experience designing commercial and industrial products around batteries so maybe I can offer some experienced-based advice.
First, you "evaluated" an obsolete board. The current board that does everything is this one:
th-cam.com/video/cTzu8LSSqVY/w-d-xo.html
This board includes the DW01 cell protection chip. This guy
th-cam.com/video/cTzu8LSSqVY/w-d-xo.html
Puts that board through a torture test. He learned the same thing I have and that is, it offers comprehensive charging and protection for a single cell.
If you'd actually studied the TP4056 data sheet or, *gasp* tested it you'd know that one resistor sets the charge current and another sets the charge termination voltage. That board comes set to 1 amp and 4.2 volts. Don't like those values? Change the resisters.
Too expensive? My last order was 10 boards for $9.98. Is a single dollar too much for you? One can't buy a quality USB socket in small quantities for that. Plus, I don't have to waste time laying out the board.
Sloppy looking? Well, maybe the way you work. I design the main board so that this daughter board slides nicely onto pins and is soldered in place.
No professional makes a perfboard or equiv prototype. We SPICE the circuit until it works, lay out the board accordingly and have a few pre-production units made.
I'm currently working on a product that uses a single 16850. I selected the USB-C version of the board I referenced. The custom enclosure is designed such that when the main boars is screwed down, the daughter-board's USB-C port aligns exactly with the oval hole I put in the enclosure.
Maybe next time, you can be a little less wrong.
Thank you so much for your feedback ❤️❤️❤️
Wonderful reply for this man's blah blah ..
As an electronic engineering student, your videos are very detailed sir! I literally learned a lot from you sir, Thank you for sharing your insights. God bless!!
You are very welcome❤️ keep watching
Sir is a noble title. Use Mr. instead. I like when 3th world ppl talking on 'sir', especially to the white ones....
Or comrade, if you are for the SVO ;D
I know everything but love to hear you speak and teach. Clear and constructive. My neutrons are now conducting again. Thanks you.😊
I'm grateful for your kind words. 😊
It's comments like yours that inspire me to keep going!
This is not a channel for hobbyist. This is more so for professionals who are familiar with electrical engineering already and wants to build a custom everything and stay away from open source/ widely used components. Now I actually agree with many of the suggestions he provides when doing electrical engineering in a professional setting. But I think most people watching these videos are young engineers and hobbyist looking to make cool things with the least amount of work. Now I'm sure it is crucial to select a proper charging IC when building products in industry but most hobbyists would ideally not like to design their own PCB for their first attempt at a project. the TP4056 is a perfectly fine board and it accomplishes what most hobbyists needs. I really enjoyed some of the other videos he does particularly the one with the POV display. But some of these videos that discourage against breakout boards and Arduino products is doing a disservice to new hobbyists and young engineers. I believe the suggestions you provide are helpful but the practicality that someone will opt to design their own charging circuit and source the appropriate IC, instead of using a breakout boards is very unlikely, the potential benefits of doing so does not out weight the time it will take to sources parts designs a PCB and assemble the PCB, and I don't think you can do all these steps cheaper than the TP4056 manufacturers.
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There is no such thing as a "nominal current" of a rechargeable battery. What you read on the battery at 3:55 was the battery's rated _capacity_ of 2000mAh. That's a charge in milliamp-hours, not a current in milliamps. The capacity is an indication of the product of current and time before your battery runs out of usable charge, for example 200mA for 10 hours, or 1000mA for 2hours, etc. Your advice to charge at the three-hour rate (sometimes called "C/3") is a reasonable compromise, but won't suit every rechargeable battery available.
Thank you for your comment, glad to have professional audience like you❤️
Now explain the difference between a 'cell' and a 'battery'.
@@BTW... The two terms are commonly used interchangeably to describe a single-cell battery. To be precise, a cell is single electrochemical device and a battery is an array of cells. The common 1.5V AA battery is also a cell, whereas the 9V PP3 battery is composed of 6 cells, connected in series. HTH.
@@BTW... that doesn’t matter in regards to what they were trying to say.
@@elewizard I don’t know if maybe you don’t know what you are saying but comments like this make you look like you are mocking them and are being insulting.
Keep on posting new videos. We need quality contents like this.
More to come!
Yes I love this channel, its like this guy has read my mind and is answering all the questions I always had
Very cool! So am I to understand that the constant current/constant voltage charging phases happen automatically? I had heard of these phases before, but I always assumed it was some kind of smart IC that decided to switch phases. I didn't realize it was even possible to do the two phases with a bench supply.
Yes it is done automatically! The whole process is simple, actually there is a variable resistor(something like a MOSFET) is restricting current and it cause such behavior 😊
If you limit voltage and current power supply will automatically use more restrictive limit and that happens automatically so those pashe will also happen automatically, only you are missing is precharge capability.
But for charging lead acide batteries you do not even need constant current, perferd way to charge them is just using constant voltage.
@@mrlazda I recall Ni-Cd ones were also quite simple in charging method right?
@@Kalvinjj yes, you charge them by constant current, but they are tricky to detect when to stop charging. You can do that by two methods, to monitore temperature rise ( when temperature start rising by 1C per minute they are fully charged) or to look for voltage signature (on them voltage rise till they are charging and then when they are fully charged voltage have slight drop). For fast chargers other method is performed.
Second method is complicated then charging lithium based batteries, for constant current constant voltage you need just two comparators, one pass transtors, voltage reference and couple of passive elements, you can make that circuit extremely easy (if you use BJT, FET/MOSFET are more tricky, if you use them you will most likely get oscillator, if you do not carful design feedback, that why most of charging ic or linear regulators do not use FET as pass element, FET are used in lab power supply's for example from HP (and all companies what are spun of HP) but for low power battery charging FET are not needed and to much complications for no any advantages)
@@mrlazda
If the charging current for Ni-Cd cells is low enough they can be left on the charger indefinitely. Usually at this current a fully discharged cell will require around 14 hours to charge.
I learn every time I’m in your channel. For a while I’ve always wondered how to configure my power supply for its constant current or voltage procedures. Super thanks!
Thank you so much! I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I appreciate your kind words!
Watch.... when you first set voltage and the current, the voltage will drop a few bits when the battery is connected, but if you, by accident, change the voltage pot to a higher voltage, you will NOT see the voltage change, until the battery gets full, and if unlucky it can go far over the set voltage. After all the setting is done disconnect the battery once to see if the voltage is still set correct before you leave it charging.
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I would be interested in a video from you where IP2312 is compared to TP4056. I know the TP4056 reduces the charge voltage by "throwing away" heat, sort of like a programmable resistor in series with the charge circuit. This means they are best used when installed against a heat sink (attached to the bottom of the module, not the top). One clarification to what you said, charging current of these modules is definitely under your control by varying the current setting resistor to the desired current, either by changing it or extending it to a potentiometer or multipole switch in combination with resistors.
Thank you for your feedback. Comparing ip2312 to tp4056 seems good idea. Noted
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I've been waiting for this video for years. All previous videos and sources contracticted between themselves. Thank you very much!!
Glad it was helpful!🥳
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@@anwin85alon Thank you for your comment! I watched this video months ago and lost the link, and was unable to find it again
at first it was difficult to listen, because I do have deficits in managing your accent. Regarding the charge of batteries you answered nearly all questions I asked myself for a long time - great! Good explained thank you
Glad it was helpful 😃
Not always is the yellow wire for thermal monitoring. In my LIPO packs for my RC equipment, the additional wire(s) in the battery connector are for voltage measurement of the individual cells when charging/discharging. 1 wire for each cell. So if I have a 2S, there is 3 wires in the connector total, 3S- 4 wires, 4S-5wires, etc. And yes, there still can be a thermistor imbedded in the pack as well, resulting in one more wire to the total.
You can very easily tell if the battery pack has thermal sensing or not, but at least on the RC LIPO packs I'm familiar with, the additional wire(s) are for voltage sense of the individual cells.
Thank you for your comment.
In this video we are talking about cells actually.👍
Primary purpose of those wires is for balancing cells
@@elewizard their point was that someone not very knowledgeable could pick up a 2S battery, see it has three wires and assume one is temperature, often lower current rated 2S batteries only have a 3 wire balance connector and not the usual power connector too.
Hi , great content. I'd like to see a project and description of multi cell lipo charging. There must be a way of doing this safely with fairly simple circuitry. Cheers
I will make a video and do such a project in the video. I am planning to make a battery powered portable bench power supply. You will learn how to charge multi cell batteries there!
Multi cell charging of any lithium type can be fairly simple if you buy rather expensive ICs designed to do that. Maintaining balanced voltage of all cells is critical to good battery lifetime. Active circuity is necessary to monitor and control that process. Good balancing with rapid charging is quite demanding.
Years ago I designed a charger for a military multi-cell lithium ion battery (actually two separate batteries in one case). The circuitry inside the case consisted of a PIC microcontroller and an incredible number of discrete components (times two, one board for each battery). There are easier ways to do it now, but it gives an indication of the complexity of the problem.
These videos are getting better. Please focus on advanced content, there's already too many YT channels covering basic electronics. I prefer to see cct diagrams in the videos, not just verbal descriptions
I will focus on projects in next months.
Usually I like your videos but this one I totally disagree. All those 'simple" modules have charging ICs so I don't get it what is the problem. if I have a 1 cell Lipo Battery I'll buy charging module for 1S LiPo configuration . If I have 1 cell LiIon i will buy charging module configured for LiIons so where is the problem?
Main reason is integration, if you learn to use ICs, you can integrate charger circuit with your main circuit.
Think about a project where you need to monitor charging process using microcontroller!
In the video he says the problem is basically cost, appearance, and fixed charging configuration. The first two probably dont matter for just a hobby project, only for making something you want to sell.
Also they cant talk to your Arduino and tell it charging info for you to display on an LCD or something.
Practical for us.. thank you. Keep up
Thank you, I will
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What happened to your channel before?
I am very glad you are back
Very helpful tutorial
I had trouble with my MCN and because of that, I have created a new channel. I am going to add old videos along with new videos here.
I liked the "greed" LED in the datasheet! 😂
thank you for a very useful discussion. i certainly have very little use for the pre-built modules, and i very much value your advice regarding these chips. i have three questions, and i wonder if you might help me. in my application, i wish to monitor the battery condition very carefully while charging, because i am recycling batteries, and need to be able to match them in multiple cell packs, according to their condition. do you know if i can monitor the voltage on the PROG pin of TP-4056 in order to know the instantaneous charge current, like in the LTC4054? second, do you know of any charger chips that would also do over voltage protection on discharge? finally, do you know what R value NTC is correct for the TP-4056? the specs do not seem to mention this.
I became interested (obsessed) with electronics as a kid in the late 1950s and have spent a significant fraction of my life designing electronics for everything from model aircraft to automated electroplating lines and from submarines to the Huygens lander so I no longer think I have anything to prove. In my retirement I'm making one-offs and I'm more than happy to take any short-cut going and modules are obviously one of them. At my age time is the main thing I'm lacking and that's a big driver.
Awesome, thank you for sharing your experience 👍
The best explanation I have ever heard . Thank-you so much.
Glad it was helpful!🤗
When i start to see your video....
First my eyes go to your components organiser sleve/Box..(left)
And then water bottle (right)
By the way great video....
Thank sir.....
Thank you too ❤️❤️❤️
Nice video. I have some cheap usb battery cellphone chargers. Im cracking them open for the circuit and i hope to disconnect the battery and replace with a smaller battery for my esp32 drone. Any tips for this process i appreciate your help
I think internal resistance of the accumulator is the major part limiting the current during charging, aside from the power source amperage of course.
If leads resistance is the limiting factor, I reckon it's time to change the leads 😉😁
Maybe 🤪
Very good explanation and learned a lot of important things
Glad you enjoyed it!
hahaha I love the ending!
Great clip btw.. informative as usual. I wish you were my electrical engineering teacher all them years ago.
Wow, thanks!😃
I am glad to be with you here. We have so much work to do
FANTASTIC explanation. ❤ very useful !! Salutations from Patagonia Argentina 🇦🇷
Thank you my Argentinian friend 🧡
ممنون مهندس خیلی عالی بود. بدردم خورد❤👍👍
Glad it was helpful 👍
Great video! If the input voltage to the charging IC is 5V, what is the output voltage from this IC? From the video as well, I learnt that the charging IC can make our work original. This is awesome! Please, can you also make a video on how we can use switch-mode-transformers to build our own power source from a scratch.
Thanks.
Good suggestion. Thank you for your comment👍
Thanks for the video. I have learned many new things from you. 👍
Glad to hear it!
Very well explained
Keep watching
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Well for most of the DIY projects, i change the Rprog on the module to suit the battery's charging current. That is more than enough.
Thanks man 😊
You are very welcome
Awesome tutorial on battery charging, most importantly covered almost every basic so beautifully
Thank you for being part of the community!
I appreciate your support more than words can express.
Nice video.
COST? I couldn't build that for less than the selling price. 10 for $8.
Looks? I am not APPLE and that looks better than anything I could build.
Can the charging equations be used for NiMH cells?
The cost is critical in mass production.
@@elewizard do you know you audience at all? Your audience will be mainly hobbyists not people designing things for mass production. Do you really think people interested in mass production will be watching a TH-cam video about charging modules?
@@conorstewart2214 using these modules can be great since they are modular and easy to replace
Can't wait for voltage regulator video.
Comming in few weeks 👍
Very good. I plan to do a battery charging experiment soon.
That is great!
FWIW, the PicoZX (Spectrum ZX emulator) project uses a battery charging module soldered directly on to its custom PCB and, IMHO, looks very good.
Exactly, there is nothing wrong with using modules, I have no idea what this guys problem is or maybe he doesn’t know his audience, most people watching these videos will be hobbyists making one off or open source projects so using modules is fine.
Very interesting video !
Thank you for your compliment ❤️❤️
Thank you for sharing❤
You are very welcome ❤️
Good job. Bravo. Continuez ce bon travail. Bonne explications bonne diction très compréhensible si on n'est pas un anglophone. Bonne prononciation et bonne vitesse. Vielen Dank.
Thank you so much for supporting me 😃
One issue is those pouch cells usually contain a BMS board. If you try charging with a USB bms board designed for a naked battery, it will sense that the battery is low and needs more current and get confused.
Careful with the terminology of; 'cell' and a 'battery', being individual cells connected to produce higher voltages (series connected) and/or storage capacity (parallel connection).
Look how many refer to a single 3.7V Li cell as being a 'battery' in the comments.
Yes, thank you for the tip. I think it is not wrong to refer to a single cell using terminology 'battery'.
A "battery" is composed of one or more cells connected in series and/or parallel.
@@markanderson2904 Nope... 1 cell is a cell. Multiples form a battery.
@@BTW... So, those AA things are not batteries?
@@markanderson2904 exactly
what a great summary. Thanks for the video
My pleasure!
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Great video sir❤
So nice of you❤️
Could you please give more examples and tests for different IC and different battery types and current ratings.
Great suggestion, thank you. I will give it a try
I've used them many times in my projects( the USB to 1s cell buck converter.) and set the charge current appropriately via a resistor. Have not had a problem. Even cut up boards to shrink them to a quarter of their original size. Vetted the boards with a couple charge cycles monitoring voltage and current to make sure everything was in Spec all lipo batteries I use have a protection board built in. The charging modules cost me less than a dollar each. Some I've had for over 10 years all still working without problems.
If I was mass producing a consumer product I would use just a chip and design it in to the product for bottom line cost savings. But most of us simply don't do that.
Great video. Thank you very much. You are a great teacher.
I'm grateful for your kind words. 😊
It's comments like yours that inspire me to keep going!❤️
Very simple but inside about batteries charginf , keep it up
Thank you so much
i use tp4056 a lot but never knew it has hidden features.... i might check the documentation and try to improvise/modify my chargers...
Yeah, there are some points in the datasheet that you might need to know.
Thanks for video. At 4:00 you say that the NC=2000mA for that battery. But what is printed on the casing is 2000mAh of capacity. That doesn't mean that the correct charging current is 2000mA/3 ?
You are right 👍 my mistake, it was the capacity👍
Very Useful ❤️🙏
Glad you think so!
hi i have an 18650 cahrger for my lithium batteries but i also have some nimh AA batteries and i was under the impression i cannot charge the AA batteries with the lithium charger but i have managed to charge them with the same charger anyway and they charged fine. I am worried maybe it will damage the batteries in the long run but i dont know. I have chaecked with a multimeter and it does indeed charge them fine.
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Good explanation. Thanks.
You're welcome!
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what would u recommend for charging two 18650s in series ?
There are multi-cell charger ICs but I prefer to design my own and custom BMS.
You need to regulate voltage to the desired voltage and limit current.
Order a 2s bms (7.4 V) and you are oké
@@paulh7189 cheers paul ... ive one on the way ...
Thanks for the helpful video.
Glad it was helpful!
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great advice thank You. and it arrived at the perfect time 👍👍
So glad!
Pm me can you to install do sola paint of charger +
thank you to you too 👍🏻👍🏻😁
So nice of you
Wow this answers a lot of questions I couldn't find the answer to on forums full of electrical engineers. I am trying to design a switching module BMS for a 48V battery system. This at least gives me the groundwork to get started. I am not sure about using a relay on the output of the chip as this will not give me the correct power consumption from the battery. Would it be possible to use a "divide by" circuit to measure voltage using a smaller chip? In any event, the current would be more important to measure as in this case the voltage source is 54v at 2 amps. Secondly, I suppose I need a chip that can output at least 2 amps, since the relay draws approximately 1.8ah at 48v which seems very high. I would like to activate it independently and measure the actual current being drawn. The fact that there are ICs dedicated to this is great! I was scouring around trying to find a circuit to adapt or use for this project and came up with nothing.
Very nice, I am glad this video was helpful 👍
Yes you can use a resistor based voltage divider to reduce the voltage then measure the reduced voltage 👌
A truly wonderful vidioe so interesting , I would realy like to see it againe a quite in deapth look at charging , very profeshionly given . Much appreciated many thanks ,realy great .
I'm thankful for viewers like you who make it worthwhile.
Your support encourages me to push my creative boundaries.
"Click this botton here! ". 😂😂😂 16:36
🤪
Very good video thank you
Thank you too
Are you reposting this?
Because I seem to remember you got dragged over the coals last time I saw this. TP4056 is dirt cheap and simple. It works. Yes, there are some chips that can charge at a higher rate but you can easily modify the TP's for more than 2A but there are modules that are cheaper for that.
The big reasons why the TP is so great is the newest module that has the protection for the output AND if you use isolated power supplies for each module you can build a balance charger for under $20 for up to 100V
This is my new channel and I am going to add old/new videos here
You are wonderful. Keep going
Thank you so much! I will
Very imp knowledge, But in all equipments used li batteries and we charge them using local charges, cant these chargers harms batteries, pls reply
Wonderful.
Many thanks!
I am planning to remove the mains battery in my phone and replace it with 1.5 volt dry batteries unchargeable with a suitable circuit, does this work correctly ? How many batteries do I need ? How complex will the electronic circuit between the phone and the batteries be ? How much will the cost be as an estimate in U.S dollars ? Knowing that my phone is Redmi Note 7.
Kindly say something about 12 v drycell or acid cell bettry charging circuits , how to made it
Thank you for the idea. I will think about making a video on the topic you mentioned
Could you comment on how to use TP4056 with a external NTC l. If I want to add temperature safety's to an 18650 charge circuit how do I choose a NTC which could limit if temperature goes up?
There is a temperature input pin on the IC. Pin 1.
You have to connect the NTC to the pin 1. You have to follow the instructions on the datasheet
@@elewizard a 18650 doesn't have a 3rd wire. If I wanted to add a temperature sensor external to the battery, what NTC / digikey part number should I use? I've only found datasheets which specify to connect the sensor which is internal to the battery. I've not found datasheets which details how to choose the NTC.
Im more inclined to use them to power small fans or motor controllers through usb instead of hardwired in.
Much obliged.
So nics of you
Nice video, thanks!
Glad you liked it!
Listening w headphones, DON'T APPRECIATE THE LOUD BEEPS. Goodbye!
Sorry for that 🫠
I have a 300mAh Li-po battery can i charge it with TP4056 IC and do i have to limit current to 100mA with a resistor in Prog pin? 🤔
Yes, that is right. If you have access to the datasheet, I recommend to refer to the datasheet before
I'm looking for a charger for Lith Ion 3.7 V that will inhibit charging at 0c or below. Do you know of any? Thanks
Check these. MCP73831, MAX1551, LTC4054, LTC1733
Thank you Mr.
You are very welcome
Thanks
Wow! Your 179 rupees Super Thanks is incredibly kind. Thank you!❤️❤️❤️
In most cases you don’t need to monitor the battery charging with a microcontroller, just measuring the battery voltage is often enough.
Thank you for expressing your thoughts 🌷
I bought a same card. Its says use 37% of amp of batter Mah. Its also gave list of resistor to use to get different ampere. Its mannual was great sbd it wss cheap so
Thanks for sharing👍
Thank you. Very good.
My pleasure!
1. If you are not making like 10k units, those module will always be cheaper than building your own.
2. You can design it to sit on top of your PCB using long header.
3. False, the module's charging current and voltage are both configurable.
4. This is the only good argument you are making, but from my experience making a "v1" that solved the original design's problem first, and then make a "v2 -- premium" version later and now you can sold them twice, is a better sale strategy.
Thank you for your feedback. It is comments like this that brightens the way for me. ❤️
Thank you sir, as soon as I saw your YT name I hit subscribe, I have some of these prebuilt charging modules but some don't work (guess I can strip and repurpose - maybe using a variable resistor in "Prog") to revive some "did you say ZERO volt" batteries? I just bought a huge amount of these in a recycle project. I figured if it is ZERO then it is dead (and my "smart" charger doesn't even charge them from zero OR .01V)
If voltage is zero, actually the battery is dead but there is a hope to recover the battery using the precharge method described in the video.
Thank you Man :D
Thank you my friend for watching me 😊
Nice. Thank u
Welcome 😊
V Good..!
Thank you for watching ❤️❤️
Can you explain why, when the voltage is constant, the current goes down? If I understood the equation I = V/R correctly, then when the voltage is constant, the current should remain unchanged since the resistance is also unchanged.
Because a battery is not a resistor and it doesn't act like a resistor, so the Ohm's law is not valid in this situation
Like they said ohms law doesn’t work for batteries in that way. If you want something similar then look up capacitors and how a circuit with a resistor and capacitor behaves.
Thank you both for the reply. My question would be more about why does the current goes down when the voltage is constant. Are there laws that would help me in understanding why does this happen with more details?
PS: even a video that does explain that would be fine by me.
@@PetitOiseau-b1w the voltage on the power supply is constant but the battery voltage is lower than what the supply says. use a voltmeter as cloe to the battey cell contact as possible to see where the battery voltage actually is.
@@PetitOiseau-b1w i=(Vsupply-Vbattery)/R
When you start charging Vbattery is low and voltage difference (Vsupply-Vbattery) is bigger so the current is higher.
When battery is nearly charged voltage difference (Vsupply-Vbattery) is low because battery is charged so the current drops. Vbattery is nearly equal to Vsupply and the current drops ewentually reaching 0 mA.
I prefer to set power supply voltage somewhere just above the measured voltage of the lipo and ramp it up gradually as the voltage of the cell catches up until we get to 4.18/20/35 if you're feeling saucy
The method you are using is not wrong but it needs a human operator to monitor the charge process.
@@elewizard Oh I do have many efficient modules for charging cells. I simply prefer to manually monitor them in some circumstances. If a cell is potentially bad for example, best option is to manually charge from power supply and keep close watch.
@@yodaco what you are doing just isn’t safe, you would be far better setting a current limit and then monitoring it rather than just adjusting the voltage manually. Also charging your batteries with higher than their rated voltage will damage them. When you can get proper battery chargers cheap, doing what you are doing isn’t worth it.
@@conorstewart2214 haha, oh yes. I know well the safety and lack thereof, I just don't care you see I am many many years in the game. You can't school me on the ins and outs of it I assure you. All I will say is I do set a current limit i'm not insane. I just ramp things up gradually which believe me is perfectly safe compared to using any charging circuit with faith. I don't care for the life of the cells I slightly over charge them on purpose you see I will drain them to death also.
@@yodaco i agree with you i do the same thing. most people don't get that the battery voltage is always lower than the reading on the supply unless there is no current being drawn.any resistance between the actual cell and power supply output will drastically slow the near full charge stage thus i higher voltage is needed to charge at a decent rate. the bms built into the battery will cut off if something goes wrong.
The formula that derives the charge termination voltage from nominal voltage doesn't exist, as it depends both on the charge termination voltage as well as knee voltage when the cell is exhausted. 3.6V nominal cells are generally fine with 4.2V termination voltage (500 cycle life nominal), 3.7 and 3.8V ones are usually used at substantially higher charge termination voltages, HOWEVER you can just charge them to 4.2V and you'll get more cycle life out of them, so i think the charge termination voltage of a typical module comes out perfectly OK!
Current trimming existing modules is very easy. I have also seen a chip for power bank which doesn't need to be current trimmed, it trims itself by driving towards a certain voltage gradient, and some devices and modules based on that. It's also convenient for powering your electronics since the cell voltage range is both too high for 3.3V ICs and too low for 3.3V regulator inputs.
Word of note: many TP4056 boards are missing the supply resistor (0R4 nominal), causing the chip to excessively heat early in the charge cycle. Unless you trim it for lower current, at which point that's OK anyway.
Thank you for the points and your feedback 👍
Should want to use USB-C PD charging modules?
Why not? Charging modules are suitable for prototyping 👍
Amazing your videos , thanks for share your experience, im learning electronic and has very nice content interesting, keep doing, you explain super good ! Congratulations , i like so much whatch videos with people to really love this amazing world, is
Very satisfactory practice and learn every day more ! Thanks again !
Glad you enjoyed, I will try to make more and better videos👍
There are also active balancers you can use.
Yes, there are many options 👍