Why you should avoid using charger modules!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 พ.ค. 2024
- After watching this video, you can use charger ICs in your project instead of charger modules. In this video I examined datasheet of TP-4056 charger IC in detail. In addition I answered these questions below.
Why some batteries have 3 terminals?
What is most simple and basic method to charge a battery?
What happens if someone charge batteries directly using power supply?
What is difference between 2terminal batteries and 3 terminal batteries?
What is best voltage for charging a battery?
What is best and safe current limit to charge a battery?
Why there is a current limit on most of DC power supplies?
What does yellow terminal of rechargeable batteries do?
Why we have to limit current when charging batteries?
What are 2 phases in charging batteries?
What is a precharge in charging batteries?
Which charger IC is best?
How to select best charger IC?
What are important parameters in choosing charger IC?
Here in this video you will get answer of these questions
Four refutations: 1. Mass production allows manufacturers to sell fully built modules far cheaper than we can even buy the parts, let alone produce a PCB. I can get a TP4056 module for 40p.
2. A module on a PCB looks far better than the rat's nest of wires on a typical diy project built on perfboard. You can't compare a 40p module with a £1,000 iPhone.
3. It takes me about 1 minute to change the resistor on a TP4056 module that sets the current, which allows full compatibility with any Li-ion battery.
4. The TP4056 follows exactly the recommended charge phases for a single Li-ion. Nobody needs any other capabilities for 99% of applications.
Well done man. You are professional 👍
Not to mention the TP4056 chip can be integrated into your project directly on the motherboard you have fabricated, or adhered in an open space provided, which would look as professional as a bluetooth board does on many commercial products.
40p sounds high, I ordered 100pcs from Aliexpress for $18. delivered.
@@hogfanboy9443 That's right if you want 100 modules. But my point is that even in small quantities (5 off for example), these fully assembled modules can be bought cheaper than I can get the parts and the pcb.
Absolutely right!
The modules are super cheap and easy!
HEALTH beep harmful to those using earphones!! (lower the sound on that beep)
Even without
@@amyneko I know I heard it on my speakers and almost fell back in my chair
Sorry about that❤️
Lol my dog jumped
Just don't. "Health" is not a bad word.
These charger modules enable us to create a USB input jack into our one-cell projects. Also, to fit litihum cells into a space once occupied by three AA batteries. I have about a dozen different project boxes I have created, and I don't worry as much how they look on the inside as they do on the outside. This allows me to have a flush mount USB jack and I can use the on-board LED indicator by way of a light pipe or opaque insert. When I have a higher voltage project, I use a BMS plus CC-CV DC converter module set to the required parameters.
There is no such thing as a "nominal current" of a rechargeable battery. What you read on the battery at 3:55 was the battery's rated _capacity_ of 2000mAh. That's a charge in milliamp-hours, not a current in milliamps. The capacity is an indication of the product of current and time before your battery runs out of usable charge, for example 200mA for 10 hours, or 1000mA for 2hours, etc. Your advice to charge at the three-hour rate (sometimes called "C/3") is a reasonable compromise, but won't suit every rechargeable battery available.
Thank you for your comment, glad to have professional audience like you❤️
Now explain the difference between a 'cell' and a 'battery'.
@@BTW... The two terms are commonly used interchangeably to describe a single-cell battery. To be precise, a cell is single electrochemical device and a battery is an array of cells. The common 1.5V AA battery is also a cell, whereas the 9V PP3 battery is composed of 6 cells, connected in series. HTH.
@@BTW... that doesn’t matter in regards to what they were trying to say.
@@elewizard I don’t know if maybe you don’t know what you are saying but comments like this make you look like you are mocking them and are being insulting.
You can change the charging current on those charger pcb boards by changing their resistor values. Look at what your battery requires on its data sheet and adjust the resistance on the board for your particular application.
Yes it is true. What about integration and monitoring!
@elewizard, you picked as example tp4056, which is the same ic that is on those modules, so all it applies to it applies to the module.
I bought some small modules recently for about a dollar each from Amazon. They use the TP4056 and the additional protection circuitry using the parts you mentioned. I couldn't come anywhere close to that cost buying the parts from authorized vendors unless I were buying to build at least tens of thousands of boards.
I've encounter a few people over the years who insist on building stuff they could buy. I think they're nuts. And I did electronics design for a living - if you can call it that.
The TP4056 should really be combined with the DW01 and a dual NMOS like the FS8205A, so that it has over current and under voltage protection. There are good guides online for hobbyists on how to implement the circuit.
Such implementations are already widely available
It depends. I suggest that you should ideally not use bare cells but protected ones, which will already contain exactly the DW01 and dual NMOS combo as well as phone batteries have a built-in thermistor that you can wire into your charge circuit for even more safety. You can equip 18650s with add on protection PCB on the terminal. If you use such protected cells, there's no point to integrate the protection into the charge circuit, and it's more comprehensive since it's better placed.
In turn combo tp4056 and dw01 protection circuit boards are exceptionally common. I would like to note though that these usually lack the inline power resistor 0R4 that you see in the TP4056 reference usage schematic and induce the chip to heat a little much at the very start of the charge cycle, but if you trim down the current for low-capacity cells anyway, then you don't need to worry about it either.
I believe the DW01 protects the cell from discharging at too high current. The TP4056 protects the cell from charging at too high current.
@@SianaGearz you should never rely on built in protection on cells, it is meant as the last line of protection.
Also there are plenty of times when you can’t get or use protected cells, just know how to use the cells safely and you will be fine.
@@conorstewart2214 DW01+8205 on the charger PCB is not anyhow better than DW01+8205 it being integrated into the battery package.
You often have no choice but to rely on the protection circuit to defend cells against deep discharge. Not that deep discharge is a very hazardous event when a real charger IC is involved, but it's presumably not healthy either.
Overcharge protection in DW01 will never trigger in normal operation due to charger IC logic, BUT, that and short circuit protection, well, accidents happen, crowbars fall down across contacts, semiconductors fail, better to have that on the cell than not to, if you have the choice - which you unfortunately don't always do.
The part about setting maximum charge voltage to 1.13 x nominal voltage is just absolutely crazy. Nowhere in the technical literature have I EVER seen that! Yes, it kind of works, for 3.7V nominal lithium ion, or 3.2V nominal LiFePO4, but you should not be telling people to do that calculation. The datasheet will show the maximum charging voltage - just use that.
Also, I totally agree with other commenters that using these modules is fine for most projects - you order the correct one for the battery you’re using, and set the charging current according to capacity (usually C/2 or C/3 - again, use the datasheet!).
Using the bare chip is only useful if you’re designing your own single-PCB solution - modules are always cheaper and easier for every other case.
Thank you so much for your feedback. It is appreciated 🌷
Good/useful note about temp sensing; I’ve used a fair number of batteries and charger modules, and wasn’t even aware there were batteries with thermistors built into them.
Most small electronic projects don’t stress the batteries to the extent that we have to worry about temperature rise, but it’s good to know about the batteries with thermistors in them if we need to make something with high power drain and/or using very fast charging. Thanks!
Yes, exactly. Glad it was helpful
Often you don’t need temperature sensing for high current applications either, just look at most drones, high discharge currents and no temperature sensing. Don’t thermally insulate your battery too much and stay within the current rating and capacity and you will be fine.
@@conorstewart2214
Hmmm ok if it has an internal thermistor the charger senses high internal resistance. Well it doesn't. It just senses low current draw, and stops charging.
This is not a channel for hobbyist. This is more so for professionals who are familiar with electrical engineering already and wants to build a custom everything and stay away from open source/ widely used components. Now I actually agree with many of the suggestions he provides when doing electrical engineering in a professional setting. But I think most people watching these videos are young engineers and hobbyist looking to make cool things with the least amount of work. Now I'm sure it is crucial to select a proper charging IC when building products in industry but most hobbyists would ideally not like to design their own PCB for their first attempt at a project. the TP4056 is a perfectly fine board and it accomplishes what most hobbyists needs. I really enjoyed some of the other videos he does particularly the one with the POV display. But some of these videos that discourage against breakout boards and Arduino products is doing a disservice to new hobbyists and young engineers. I believe the suggestions you provide are helpful but the practicality that someone will opt to design their own charging circuit and source the appropriate IC, instead of using a breakout boards is very unlikely, the potential benefits of doing so does not out weight the time it will take to sources parts designs a PCB and assemble the PCB, and I don't think you can do all these steps cheaper than the TP4056 manufacturers.
Not always is the yellow wire for thermal monitoring. In my LIPO packs for my RC equipment, the additional wire(s) in the battery connector are for voltage measurement of the individual cells when charging/discharging. 1 wire for each cell. So if I have a 2S, there is 3 wires in the connector total, 3S- 4 wires, 4S-5wires, etc. And yes, there still can be a thermistor imbedded in the pack as well, resulting in one more wire to the total.
You can very easily tell if the battery pack has thermal sensing or not, but at least on the RC LIPO packs I'm familiar with, the additional wire(s) are for voltage sense of the individual cells.
Thank you for your comment.
In this video we are talking about cells actually.👍
Primary purpose of those wires is for balancing cells
@@elewizard their point was that someone not very knowledgeable could pick up a 2S battery, see it has three wires and assume one is temperature, often lower current rated 2S batteries only have a 3 wire balance connector and not the usual power connector too.
I would be interested in a video from you where IP2312 is compared to TP4056. I know the TP4056 reduces the charge voltage by "throwing away" heat, sort of like a programmable resistor in series with the charge circuit. This means they are best used when installed against a heat sink (attached to the bottom of the module, not the top). One clarification to what you said, charging current of these modules is definitely under your control by varying the current setting resistor to the desired current, either by changing it or extending it to a potentiometer or multipole switch in combination with resistors.
Thank you for your feedback. Comparing ip2312 to tp4056 seems good idea. Noted
I learn every time I’m in your channel. For a while I’ve always wondered how to configure my power supply for its constant current or voltage procedures. Super thanks!
Thank you so much! I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I appreciate your kind words!
Watch.... when you first set voltage and the current, the voltage will drop a few bits when the battery is connected, but if you, by accident, change the voltage pot to a higher voltage, you will NOT see the voltage change, until the battery gets full, and if unlucky it can go far over the set voltage. After all the setting is done disconnect the battery once to see if the voltage is still set correct before you leave it charging.
I think internal resistance of the accumulator is the major part limiting the current during charging, aside from the power source amperage of course.
If leads resistance is the limiting factor, I reckon it's time to change the leads 😉😁
Maybe 🤪
Could you comment on how to use TP4056 with a external NTC l. If I want to add temperature safety's to an 18650 charge circuit how do I choose a NTC which could limit if temperature goes up?
There is a temperature input pin on the IC. Pin 1.
You have to connect the NTC to the pin 1. You have to follow the instructions on the datasheet
@@elewizard a 18650 doesn't have a 3rd wire. If I wanted to add a temperature sensor external to the battery, what NTC / digikey part number should I use? I've only found datasheets which specify to connect the sensor which is internal to the battery. I've not found datasheets which details how to choose the NTC.
Very cool! So am I to understand that the constant current/constant voltage charging phases happen automatically? I had heard of these phases before, but I always assumed it was some kind of smart IC that decided to switch phases. I didn't realize it was even possible to do the two phases with a bench supply.
Yes it is done automatically! The whole process is simple, actually there is a variable resistor(something like a MOSFET) is restricting current and it cause such behavior 😊
If you limit voltage and current power supply will automatically use more restrictive limit and that happens automatically so those pashe will also happen automatically, only you are missing is precharge capability.
But for charging lead acide batteries you do not even need constant current, perferd way to charge them is just using constant voltage.
@@mrlazda I recall Ni-Cd ones were also quite simple in charging method right?
@@Kalvinjj yes, you charge them by constant current, but they are tricky to detect when to stop charging. You can do that by two methods, to monitore temperature rise ( when temperature start rising by 1C per minute they are fully charged) or to look for voltage signature (on them voltage rise till they are charging and then when they are fully charged voltage have slight drop). For fast chargers other method is performed.
Second method is complicated then charging lithium based batteries, for constant current constant voltage you need just two comparators, one pass transtors, voltage reference and couple of passive elements, you can make that circuit extremely easy (if you use BJT, FET/MOSFET are more tricky, if you use them you will most likely get oscillator, if you do not carful design feedback, that why most of charging ic or linear regulators do not use FET as pass element, FET are used in lab power supply's for example from HP (and all companies what are spun of HP) but for low power battery charging FET are not needed and to much complications for no any advantages)
@@mrlazda
If the charging current for Ni-Cd cells is low enough they can be left on the charger indefinitely. Usually at this current a fully discharged cell will require around 14 hours to charge.
I've been waiting for this video for years. All previous videos and sources contracticted between themselves. Thank you very much!!
Glad it was helpful!🥳
I'm looking for a charger for Lith Ion 3.7 V that will inhibit charging at 0c or below. Do you know of any? Thanks
Check these. MCP73831, MAX1551, LTC4054, LTC1733
at first it was difficult to listen, because I do have deficits in managing your accent. Regarding the charge of batteries you answered nearly all questions I asked myself for a long time - great! Good explained thank you
Glad it was helpful 😃
I have a 300mAh Li-po battery can i charge it with TP4056 IC and do i have to limit current to 100mA with a resistor in Prog pin? 🤔
Yes, that is right. If you have access to the datasheet, I recommend to refer to the datasheet before
Nice video.
COST? I couldn't build that for less than the selling price. 10 for $8.
Looks? I am not APPLE and that looks better than anything I could build.
Can the charging equations be used for NiMH cells?
The cost is critical in mass production.
@@elewizard do you know you audience at all? Your audience will be mainly hobbyists not people designing things for mass production. Do you really think people interested in mass production will be watching a TH-cam video about charging modules?
@@conorstewart2214 using these modules can be great since they are modular and easy to replace
FWIW, the PicoZX (Spectrum ZX emulator) project uses a battery charging module soldered directly on to its custom PCB and, IMHO, looks very good.
Exactly, there is nothing wrong with using modules, I have no idea what this guys problem is or maybe he doesn’t know his audience, most people watching these videos will be hobbyists making one off or open source projects so using modules is fine.
Great video! If the input voltage to the charging IC is 5V, what is the output voltage from this IC? From the video as well, I learnt that the charging IC can make our work original. This is awesome! Please, can you also make a video on how we can use switch-mode-transformers to build our own power source from a scratch.
Thanks.
Good suggestion. Thank you for your comment👍
what would u recommend for charging two 18650s in series ?
There are multi-cell charger ICs but I prefer to design my own and custom BMS.
You need to regulate voltage to the desired voltage and limit current.
Order a 2s bms (7.4 V) and you are oké
@@paulh7189 cheers paul ... ive one on the way ...
I am planning to remove the mains battery in my phone and replace it with 1.5 volt dry batteries unchargeable with a suitable circuit, does this work correctly ? How many batteries do I need ? How complex will the electronic circuit between the phone and the batteries be ? How much will the cost be as an estimate in U.S dollars ? Knowing that my phone is Redmi Note 7.
These videos are getting better. Please focus on advanced content, there's already too many YT channels covering basic electronics. I prefer to see cct diagrams in the videos, not just verbal descriptions
I will focus on projects in next months.
I bought a same card. Its says use 37% of amp of batter Mah. Its also gave list of resistor to use to get different ampere. Its mannual was great sbd it wss cheap so
Thanks for sharing👍
Wow this answers a lot of questions I couldn't find the answer to on forums full of electrical engineers. I am trying to design a switching module BMS for a 48V battery system. This at least gives me the groundwork to get started. I am not sure about using a relay on the output of the chip as this will not give me the correct power consumption from the battery. Would it be possible to use a "divide by" circuit to measure voltage using a smaller chip? In any event, the current would be more important to measure as in this case the voltage source is 54v at 2 amps. Secondly, I suppose I need a chip that can output at least 2 amps, since the relay draws approximately 1.8ah at 48v which seems very high. I would like to activate it independently and measure the actual current being drawn. The fact that there are ICs dedicated to this is great! I was scouring around trying to find a circuit to adapt or use for this project and came up with nothing.
Very nice, I am glad this video was helpful 👍
Yes you can use a resistor based voltage divider to reduce the voltage then measure the reduced voltage 👌
Hi , great content. I'd like to see a project and description of multi cell lipo charging. There must be a way of doing this safely with fairly simple circuitry. Cheers
I will make a video and do such a project in the video. I am planning to make a battery powered portable bench power supply. You will learn how to charge multi cell batteries there!
Multi cell charging of any lithium type can be fairly simple if you buy rather expensive ICs designed to do that. Maintaining balanced voltage of all cells is critical to good battery lifetime. Active circuity is necessary to monitor and control that process. Good balancing with rapid charging is quite demanding.
Years ago I designed a charger for a military multi-cell lithium ion battery (actually two separate batteries in one case). The circuitry inside the case consisted of a PIC microcontroller and an incredible number of discrete components (times two, one board for each battery). There are easier ways to do it now, but it gives an indication of the complexity of the problem.
One issue is those pouch cells usually contain a BMS board. If you try charging with a USB bms board designed for a naked battery, it will sense that the battery is low and needs more current and get confused.
I know everything but love to hear you speak and teach. Clear and constructive. My neutrons are now conducting again. Thanks you.😊
I'm grateful for your kind words. 😊
It's comments like yours that inspire me to keep going!
There is a version with the protection IC. it has overvoltage and undervoltage cutoff.
Very good 👍
4:38 how come the voltage shoots up on these PS when u first turn them on ? That shot up to 66v right there. I cooked an OP amp in a 12v inverter last week. Mine shoots up to 124v damn garbage. LEDs don't light up now driven by an op amp.
Good point. I need to test it👍
The voltage seems to jump up more when the ps sits more when its first turned on. Maybe not enough capacitance across the supply leads ? The capacitors work quicker after they have been charged it seems. I'm gonna always turn mine on and off before using on sensitive components or turn on then connect leads. It definitely took out the LEDs on my inverter. They flashed and went out checked the LEDs and they still work. The max voltage on the op amp is a 20v.
Awesome tutorial on battery charging, most importantly covered almost every basic so beautifully
Thank you for being part of the community!
I appreciate your support more than words can express.
A truly wonderful vidioe so interesting , I would realy like to see it againe a quite in deapth look at charging , very profeshionly given . Much appreciated many thanks ,realy great .
I'm thankful for viewers like you who make it worthwhile.
Your support encourages me to push my creative boundaries.
hahaha I love the ending!
Great clip btw.. informative as usual. I wish you were my electrical engineering teacher all them years ago.
Wow, thanks!😃
I am glad to be with you here. We have so much work to do
Careful with the terminology of; 'cell' and a 'battery', being individual cells connected to produce higher voltages (series connected) and/or storage capacity (parallel connection).
Look how many refer to a single 3.7V Li cell as being a 'battery' in the comments.
Yes, thank you for the tip. I think it is not wrong to refer to a single cell using terminology 'battery'.
A "battery" is composed of one or more cells connected in series and/or parallel.
@@markanderson2904 Nope... 1 cell is a cell. Multiples form a battery.
@@BTW... So, those AA things are not batteries?
@@markanderson2904 exactly
Very imp knowledge, But in all equipments used li batteries and we charge them using local charges, cant these chargers harms batteries, pls reply
Good job. Bravo. Continuez ce bon travail. Bonne explications bonne diction très compréhensible si on n'est pas un anglophone. Bonne prononciation et bonne vitesse. Vielen Dank.
Thank you so much for supporting me 😃
From 5:45, how is the potential difference of 0.5v determined? Is it a constant value for all chargers.
Simply 4.2V-3.7V=0.5V
😉
@@elewizard @elewizard during the bulk charging phase, as the voltage of the battery increases the current remains thesame. Do you know at what voltage difference the power supply increases? For instance, if the voltage of the battery increases from 3.7v to 3.8v, do you know the voltage of the power supply when the battery voltage increases to 3.8v during bulk charging phase?
i use tp4056 a lot but never knew it has hidden features.... i might check the documentation and try to improvise/modify my chargers...
Yeah, there are some points in the datasheet that you might need to know.
Can you explain why, when the voltage is constant, the current goes down? If I understood the equation I = V/R correctly, then when the voltage is constant, the current should remain unchanged since the resistance is also unchanged.
Because a battery is not a resistor and it doesn't act like a resistor, so the Ohm's law is not valid in this situation
Like they said ohms law doesn’t work for batteries in that way. If you want something similar then look up capacitors and how a circuit with a resistor and capacitor behaves.
Thank you both for the reply. My question would be more about why does the current goes down when the voltage is constant. Are there laws that would help me in understanding why does this happen with more details?
PS: even a video that does explain that would be fine by me.
@@user-kl5js9yh7j the voltage on the power supply is constant but the battery voltage is lower than what the supply says. use a voltmeter as cloe to the battey cell contact as possible to see where the battery voltage actually is.
@@user-kl5js9yh7j i=(Vsupply-Vbattery)/R
When you start charging Vbattery is low and voltage difference (Vsupply-Vbattery) is bigger so the current is higher.
When battery is nearly charged voltage difference (Vsupply-Vbattery) is low because battery is charged so the current drops. Vbattery is nearly equal to Vsupply and the current drops ewentually reaching 0 mA.
Are you reposting this?
Because I seem to remember you got dragged over the coals last time I saw this. TP4056 is dirt cheap and simple. It works. Yes, there are some chips that can charge at a higher rate but you can easily modify the TP's for more than 2A but there are modules that are cheaper for that.
The big reasons why the TP is so great is the newest module that has the protection for the output AND if you use isolated power supplies for each module you can build a balance charger for under $20 for up to 100V
This is my new channel and I am going to add old/new videos here
Kindly say something about 12 v drycell or acid cell bettry charging circuits , how to made it
Thank you for the idea. I will think about making a video on the topic you mentioned
Great video. Thank you very much. You are a great teacher.
I'm grateful for your kind words. 😊
It's comments like yours that inspire me to keep going!❤️
As an electronic engineering student, your videos are very detailed sir! I literally learned a lot from you sir, Thank you for sharing your insights. God bless!!
You are very welcome❤️ keep watching
Sir is a noble title. Use Mr. instead. I like when 3th world ppl talking on 'sir', especially to the white ones....
Or comrade, if you are for the SVO ;D
Very good. I plan to do a battery charging experiment soon.
That is great!
Amazing your videos , thanks for share your experience, im learning electronic and has very nice content interesting, keep doing, you explain super good ! Congratulations , i like so much whatch videos with people to really love this amazing world, is
Very satisfactory practice and learn every day more ! Thanks again !
Glad you enjoyed, I will try to make more and better videos👍
Usually I like your videos but this one I totally disagree. All those 'simple" modules have charging ICs so I don't get it what is the problem. if I have a 1 cell Lipo Battery I'll buy charging module for 1S LiPo configuration . If I have 1 cell LiIon i will buy charging module configured for LiIons so where is the problem?
Main reason is integration, if you learn to use ICs, you can integrate charger circuit with your main circuit.
Think about a project where you need to monitor charging process using microcontroller!
In the video he says the problem is basically cost, appearance, and fixed charging configuration. The first two probably dont matter for just a hobby project, only for making something you want to sell.
Also they cant talk to your Arduino and tell it charging info for you to display on an LCD or something.
Thank you sir, as soon as I saw your YT name I hit subscribe, I have some of these prebuilt charging modules but some don't work (guess I can strip and repurpose - maybe using a variable resistor in "Prog") to revive some "did you say ZERO volt" batteries? I just bought a huge amount of these in a recycle project. I figured if it is ZERO then it is dead (and my "smart" charger doesn't even charge them from zero OR .01V)
If voltage is zero, actually the battery is dead but there is a hope to recover the battery using the precharge method described in the video.
Yuo use a litle more voltage , in that way the electrons ( currebt) flow to the vattery directurtiin ,like water in a higer podtion respect to other
When i start to see your video....
First my eyes go to your components organiser sleve/Box..(left)
And then water bottle (right)
By the way great video....
Thank sir.....
Thank you too ❤️❤️❤️
Could you please give more examples and tests for different IC and different battery types and current ratings.
Great suggestion, thank you. I will give it a try
ممنون مهندس خیلی عالی بود. بدردم خورد❤👍👍
Glad it was helpful 👍
great advice thank You. and it arrived at the perfect time 👍👍
So glad!
with your reasonings, this should be about high-production, niche, commercial charging approach (the title, I mean, as well as the target audience?) but some things are not that coherent(?)
Should want to use USB-C PD charging modules?
Why not? Charging modules are suitable for prototyping 👍
In most cases you don’t need to monitor the battery charging with a microcontroller, just measuring the battery voltage is often enough.
Thank you for expressing your thoughts 🌷
We should never connect a battery directly to a power supply. You need to add a resistor in series on the positive side to limit current. Not unless we are using a bench power supply with current limit which most people do not have. I = (supply voltage - battery voltage) / R. This is the most basic method in charging batteries. As the battery voltage increases, Charging current will slowly decrease and approaches trickle charge if the supply voltage is selected properly.
Yes, that is right👍
Just resistor is quite bad for charging lithium cells. You want CC/CV which charger could deliver or proper lab supply ( which is quite avaible now, even small switched Riden module could do ).
Im using those charger module, blue led is on, so it should be the battery fully charge but when i use it on headlights it only last for 30 minutes but when i use 18650 battery charger it will last for 2 hours🤦🏾♂️ at first i thought the battery was bad and order new 18650 battery but the same, after that ordered new that tp4056 charger it still the same🤦🏾♂️ why? I had to make it easy to charge bc i want to give it to my mom, she want to use headlights to look her chicken at night but dont want buy new headlight bc already had old one, it just the headlights charging board damage bc it soak in water🤦🏾♂️ im buy the tp4056 module i thought it will work well but it's not, it show fully charge but its not🤦🏾♂️ i cant give my mom the headlights if charging by joining wire like i did🤦🏾♂️ want to other good charger module i don't have money rn bc i dont have a job bc of social anxiety 🤦🏾♂️
What happened to your channel before?
I am very glad you are back
Very helpful tutorial
I had trouble with my MCN and because of that, I have created a new channel. I am going to add old videos along with new videos here.
I prefer to set power supply voltage somewhere just above the measured voltage of the lipo and ramp it up gradually as the voltage of the cell catches up until we get to 4.18/20/35 if you're feeling saucy
The method you are using is not wrong but it needs a human operator to monitor the charge process.
@@elewizard Oh I do have many efficient modules for charging cells. I simply prefer to manually monitor them in some circumstances. If a cell is potentially bad for example, best option is to manually charge from power supply and keep close watch.
@@yodaco what you are doing just isn’t safe, you would be far better setting a current limit and then monitoring it rather than just adjusting the voltage manually. Also charging your batteries with higher than their rated voltage will damage them. When you can get proper battery chargers cheap, doing what you are doing isn’t worth it.
@@conorstewart2214 haha, oh yes. I know well the safety and lack thereof, I just don't care you see I am many many years in the game. You can't school me on the ins and outs of it I assure you. All I will say is I do set a current limit i'm not insane. I just ramp things up gradually which believe me is perfectly safe compared to using any charging circuit with faith. I don't care for the life of the cells I slightly over charge them on purpose you see I will drain them to death also.
@@yodaco i agree with you i do the same thing. most people don't get that the battery voltage is always lower than the reading on the supply unless there is no current being drawn.any resistance between the actual cell and power supply output will drastically slow the near full charge stage thus i higher voltage is needed to charge at a decent rate. the bms built into the battery will cut off if something goes wrong.
it may just be me but you should test with the sound of your microphone!
it doesn't really sound good. ( too much bass )
when you sit at the desk it sounds dull
and if you only see the power supply from above it sounds a little bit better!
maybe you should experiment with the sound,
in my opinion it could be a bit brighter! (it could sound fresher/brighter I guess!)
( ATTENTION! - I think! )
Friendly greetings from The Netherlands!
Rob
Thank you Rob, I am trying to improve the voice quality. Thank you for the tip.
👍
At 16:14 you said a new video would come of voltage regulators..... I couldn't find it on your channel..... Requesting you to please make that video
Yeah, it is in my old channel. @XEMC
@@elewizard Can't find the channel sir
A VERY simple charger for cells salvaged from disposable vapes ( found on most sidewalks ! ) is to use a 5 Volt USB outlet with a Silicon diode ( 1N4007 ? ) and a resistor ( 22 Ω to 100 Ω ? ? ) in series in the lead to limit voltage to 4v2 , and charge current ... this is not ideal , ( but it works ! ) ....... ( tried - n - tested ) ............... DAVE™🛑
Yeah it will work.
The silicon diode will drop around 0.7v thus 4.3v will be applied to the battery.
As you said it is not optional and dangerous in some cases but it have to work
Why did you take down old videos on capacitors ,etc 😢?
I had trouble with my MCN and because of that, I have created a new channel. I am going to add old videos along with new videos here.
@@elewizard Waiting for those 👍🏻. They really helped me as I'm completing my engineering in electronics and communications. Those were the best explanation with live practical. I would love more such videos from you 😀
@@diydixit more videos are coming 😉
The formula that derives the charge termination voltage from nominal voltage doesn't exist, as it depends both on the charge termination voltage as well as knee voltage when the cell is exhausted. 3.6V nominal cells are generally fine with 4.2V termination voltage (500 cycle life nominal), 3.7 and 3.8V ones are usually used at substantially higher charge termination voltages, HOWEVER you can just charge them to 4.2V and you'll get more cycle life out of them, so i think the charge termination voltage of a typical module comes out perfectly OK!
Current trimming existing modules is very easy. I have also seen a chip for power bank which doesn't need to be current trimmed, it trims itself by driving towards a certain voltage gradient, and some devices and modules based on that. It's also convenient for powering your electronics since the cell voltage range is both too high for 3.3V ICs and too low for 3.3V regulator inputs.
Word of note: many TP4056 boards are missing the supply resistor (0R4 nominal), causing the chip to excessively heat early in the charge cycle. Unless you trim it for lower current, at which point that's OK anyway.
Thank you for the points and your feedback 👍
what a great summary. Thanks for the video
My pleasure!
There are 10 important points on selecting a proper charging IC, not 8.
1. The most important one: is it a switching design (aka SMPS, probably buck regulator) or lineal design.
2. Heat-sinking for the IC and it's surroundings (like inductors for switching design).
3-10: prevous 8
Thank you so much for adding these two points 🌷
I do have about a hundred of these charger modules, never occurred to me I could use just the ICs... 😭😂
No problem, these modules work well, youcan try ICs in professional projects
Batteries should be fine to charge/discharge at their nominal current as long as there is enough cooling to maintain the temperature withing limits.
I don't think so. We always have to refer to the datasheet. I have told you to charge batteries at 1/3 of the battery nominal current,just when the datasheet is not available.
Thank you Mr.
You are very welcome
The charger modules are cheap as dirt. Unless you are buying in large quantities it is hard to buy the components on one of the modules for what you'll pay for a complete module.
I've designed a lot of battery chargers from solar power ones for military lithium ion batteries to small and large lead-acid batteries from AC mains to large industrial lead-acid batteries charged from an explosion-proof permanent magnet generator that operated at variable frequency. I'd have no qualms about using the small modules for a single lithium ion cell. Most are programmed for 1 ampere charging current so they may need a resistor change for small cells.
Thank you for your comment. 👍
I wish tp-4056 had a voltage adjust down to 3.8v to maximize the life cycle of the battery for mostly plugged in batteries. other than that the module is dirt cheap and suitable for various needs.
You can make your own battery management system, then every thing will be customizable for you
you can use a buck converter to set your own voltage and current but remember to make sure the battery has a 1s bms just in case the converter malfunctions of the set pot accidentally gets turned
Is it the same rules for LiPo?
Rules for charge voltage is almost equal but charge current may differ. Lipo battery are able to be charged at high charge currents.
All the math here should be considered to be "general guidelines" only. Some battery manufacturers provides much more reliable data and depending on their product from thorough testing
Yes,that is right. Some manufacturers provides thorough info about batteries
4.18 volts is too low. Full charge for a LiPo is 4.2 volts, so you need around 4.4 volts to charge it fully. 4.18 volts will never give you a full charge on a LiPo battery.
Thank you for your comment 🌷
Ok, so you know that full charge is 4.2V, but you suggest charging to 4.4V? Why? 4.2V is maximum for a reason - if you go above that, the battery may be damaged or even explode. I do hope you don’t design electronic products!
@@simontillson482 Two tenths of a volt isn't going to explode Anything. Plus, you need a _difference in voltage_ to cause current to flow. If your voltage is 4.2v, it will take DAYS to fully charge.
@@chrisw1462 Yes, the current will be very small when it gets to 4.2V. It’s supposed to be small. The whole point of charging a lithium ion battery is to charge at a constant current until it reaches 4.2V and then maintain that voltage and monitor the current until it drops to C/20 or so. In reality, this constant voltage phase takes about 40 minutes for most cells. So, if you charge at C/2, most of the capacity is stored in two hours or less, usually about 90%. That last 40 minutes at constant voltage just tops off the last 10%. Because the current drops exponentially, it takes about 10 minutes to get to 95%, then another 10 minutes to 97%, and the last 20 minutes only contributes the remaining 3%. So no, it won’t take DAYS. All lithium ion cells can reach 100% in under 3 hours, safely!
Charging at 4.4V causes harm to the battery and is totally unnecessary. Above 4.2V, most cells will overheat because they will continue to draw a large current even when fully charged already, so the charger will never shut off and the battery will become OVERCHARGED. Where do you think that extra energy is going to go?
There are also active balancers you can use.
Yes, there are many options 👍
With these teaching skills and winning accent, sky's the limit. Good stuff.
I appreciate that!
Okay, so don't use a charger module, that's made with a TP4056 chip. Instead, use a TP4056 chip.
Also, what you say about chargers not cutting off their current at the end of charge is complete nonsense. If the charger is regulating the voltage to 4.2V, and the battery is already at 4.2V, zero current will pass. That's how electricity works - if two points are at the same voltage, no current flows between them. There is no such thing as a power supply that continues to deliver current when the load is already at the same voltage.
Next, charging current. All of these charging modules have resistors that set the charging current. These typically have a resistor in place that will charge at 1 Amp, but it is easy to change the resistor to match the current that your battery needs.
Next, low-voltage cutoff. You are right, charger circuits do not shut off the load when the battery drops below a threshold. But that's where you still have other options. First, if you're using a battery that has a built-in BMS, it will take care of this for you. But second, you can use a charger module that also includes the BMS chip and MOSFETs. Those are still cheaper than the parts you would have to buy to put them on your circuit board.
Finally your circuit will look unprofessional? Here's a hint: package your product so that the internal circuitry isn't visible, and make internal interconnections tidy. I wouldn't know if my phone used a charger module, because my phone is kind of permanently sealed. Now I'll admit, if I was making a commercial product that will need to be manufactured in runs of 1000 or more, I would incorporate the charging circuit on the main circuit board, but for low-volume runs, charging modules, and even other modules or "breakout boards" for specialized chips can make sense, especially where there are multiple chips that can be used for a given function, without affecting circuit operation. This can prevent having to make a new circuit board when it becomes difficult to get a specific chip, and with many chips evolving in 6-month cycles, you never know if you're going to have to change chips.
So yeah, if I'm designing something that will be low-volume, I have no qualms at all about using modules.
I'm with you man, this is snobbery imo. I just ordered a bunch of Tp4056 for a project as they do what I need them to do. They do in fact feed lower current depending on battery condition automatically. Why would I waste so much time and energy on the charger instead of just making the thing happen.
I'm not competing with Samsung 😂
Thanks for the video. I have learned many new things from you. 👍
Glad to hear it!
Thank you. Very good.
My pleasure!
I like your video, Sir. Hope that you have time to make a video about the latching circuit using an N-Type or P-Type Mosfet and 1 tact switch. I am currently developing a low-power switching circuit for large industrial motors controlled by an SSR or mechanical.
Great suggestion! I will consider your suggestion.
@@elewizard Thank You Sir.
12:44 Isn't fast charging done by high CURRENT? You said high voltage.
You can speed-up the charge process by increasing the charge current but it can't fasten the charge process more that a certain limit.
To speed-up the charge process even more, you have to increase the charge voltage.
Thanks for the helpful video.
Glad it was helpful!
You simply don't know what you're talking about! I'm a retired EE with about 20 years' experience designing commercial and industrial products around batteries so maybe I can offer some experienced-based advice.
First, you "evaluated" an obsolete board. The current board that does everything is this one:
th-cam.com/video/cTzu8LSSqVY/w-d-xo.html
This board includes the DW01 cell protection chip. This guy
th-cam.com/video/cTzu8LSSqVY/w-d-xo.html
Puts that board through a torture test. He learned the same thing I have and that is, it offers comprehensive charging and protection for a single cell.
If you'd actually studied the TP4056 data sheet or, *gasp* tested it you'd know that one resistor sets the charge current and another sets the charge termination voltage. That board comes set to 1 amp and 4.2 volts. Don't like those values? Change the resisters.
Too expensive? My last order was 10 boards for $9.98. Is a single dollar too much for you? One can't buy a quality USB socket in small quantities for that. Plus, I don't have to waste time laying out the board.
Sloppy looking? Well, maybe the way you work. I design the main board so that this daughter board slides nicely onto pins and is soldered in place.
No professional makes a perfboard or equiv prototype. We SPICE the circuit until it works, lay out the board accordingly and have a few pre-production units made.
I'm currently working on a product that uses a single 16850. I selected the USB-C version of the board I referenced. The custom enclosure is designed such that when the main boars is screwed down, the daughter-board's USB-C port aligns exactly with the oval hole I put in the enclosure.
Maybe next time, you can be a little less wrong.
Thank you so much for your feedback ❤️❤️❤️
Nice. Thank u
Welcome 😊
Good explanation. Thanks.
You're welcome!
1. If you are not making like 10k units, those module will always be cheaper than building your own.
2. You can design it to sit on top of your PCB using long header.
3. False, the module's charging current and voltage are both configurable.
4. This is the only good argument you are making, but from my experience making a "v1" that solved the original design's problem first, and then make a "v2 -- premium" version later and now you can sold them twice, is a better sale strategy.
Thank you for your feedback. It is comments like this that brightens the way for me. ❤️
lithium batteries must be stopped charging when current reach 1/10 nominal charge current. Lithium batteries can't be float charged :( Use TP4056 or simular chip for charging :) TP4056 works great just set charging current with resistor to 0.5C of battery. for 2A cell set to 1A :)
Thank you for the point 👍
Thank you Man :D
Thank you my friend for watching me 😊
the lcd behind look like windows XP or its mine mindset
It is win 7 🙃
Very well explained
Keep watching
The button there 😂
I think you should include IP2312 ic in your list
It is a fast changing IC.👍
Fun fact most to all CELL PHONES uses the bad charging modules within the circuit board which results in battery explosion. :/
I want to know how the "greed" indicator works.
Me too 😁
Great!
You are great
Nice video, thanks!
Glad you liked it!
Add potentiometer. For control the current.
That is s good trick 😁
Much obliged.
So nics of you