Conevalves where invested by Mr. Pfeiffer in Germany in the 80`s because it avoids the "hydraulic lock" of conventional shim systems at very< high speeds. It was not invented by WP.
Once again you have made one of the best suspension videos on TH-cam. The cone valve doesn't seem like it would cost much more money to make, why do you think that they just don't come stock or standard on the bikes?
Thaaaank you man! The cone valve is ideal for really tough riders and really hard pace riding, more like enduro gp or even rally! For everyday joe doesn't seem to bring the value it brings to more elite riding
Excellent, Excellent, Excellent! Thank you for the video Luis. The side by side comparison between the shim based valves and the cone valves is very helpful. Cheers 🚀
On really big, square-edge type hits, the cone/poppet/spool valves have a big pressure spike that you don't get with shim valving. Shims can also react _a lot_ faster than something that has to physically move to uncover a hole.
It functions similar to the RaceTech cartridge emulator which uses a disk with coil spring. The big secret is the spring. Nice graphics. Thanks for posting.
excellent. I have a question . when you talk about the balance of the base valve and the mid valve. softening the mid valve must also be done in the base valve? thank you
People keep saying, "Why do cone valves cost so much?". They don't cost that much.. they're $3600 per set. If I go online right now and order a brand new set of STOCK forks for my 2022 ktm it would cost $2900. They're currently marked down to $2500 but you get the point. "Cone valve" forks are not JUST cone valves in stock forks. The upper tubes are straight and have no taper like stock forks do, making them substantially stiffer. The bottom lugs are billet vs. cast, and many of the parts hold much higher tolerances and are coated differently. Lastly, cone valves are somewhat sensitive to setup, which in a production standpoint would be a disaster for reviews as they would come valved for a very narrow set of riders. They can only do so much, hence why suspension should be the first money you spend on any bike as you likely don't meet the exact criteria it was set up for. So no, cone valves do not cost that much. They're only $700 more than a set of stock forks, and most people pay about that just to get billet lugs on a pair of stock forks. So I don't see how they're expensive. Plus, all the comments I see regarding how expensive KTMs are, why should I have to spend so much money on suspension? Well, you really don't, just get a simple revalve and correct springs, and most will be plenty satisfied. You should literally do this with EVERY manufacturers' bikes.
How do you think about conevalve vs kyb inserts ? I have kub inserts from technical touch. I like them for sure but never tried conevalves and still curious. I ride mx track and also cross country (c class rider)
Be cool see video on mxtech forks and shock and how different is along with suspsion101 sprungmid(like a convalve) valve and gobblers(has h/l speed comp for base valve)
This is not accurate, because the WP mid valve is more restrictive than say a kyb or Showa. So when the cone is open all the way it’s still more restrictive due to the port entrance hence the delta shims on the reb side. Also it’s common on kyb and aer to run a leaf spring shim setup giving a broader range to be in the sweet spot.
It simply doesn't make sense to have that kind of valve on the base valve, it would make the overall suspension behaviour very hard to adjust, even with the adjustability it provides.
The rebound valve doesn't need to have such complex and elaborate valves. What's available already covers all the needs you might have. On rebound you jest need to control the extension of the spring, that's all.
Great video but I will never consider buying a bike with WP. If you need to put +2000€ in a bike, just to get it to work properly. Well, than the suspension is not good at all. Even worse when the bike costs 1500-2000 more than their competitors from start.
90% of average riders don’t take the time to set the bike up. I have a 2022 gasgas ex250f and it’s the best stock suspension for riding woods and trails that I have ever rode. It struggles on moto, but play riding, trails, mixed woods, it’s excellent. Also have a 2024 250SXF and it’s bone stock and excellent. Took a few hours to figure out where I want clickers and sag, but it’s money.
Lot's of money for a suspension that doesn't work!!! I go with the state of the art black Jack suspension from MX TECH USA. ( THE WIZARD JEREMY WILKEY)
Conevalves where invested by Mr. Pfeiffer in Germany in the 80`s because it avoids the "hydraulic lock" of conventional shim systems at very< high speeds. It was not invented by WP.
Once again you have made one of the best suspension videos on TH-cam. The cone valve doesn't seem like it would cost much more money to make, why do you think that they just don't come stock or standard on the bikes?
Thaaaank you man! The cone valve is ideal for really tough riders and really hard pace riding, more like enduro gp or even rally! For everyday joe doesn't seem to bring the value it brings to more elite riding
Best explanation video on youtube. Great work
Great explanations and supporting video. Thanks for the effort!
Thank you for your excellent way of teaching common mortal.
I really appreciate it! That's the goal of Offroad Engineered 🙌
Easy design, good idea to try especially on rear shock with strong falling leverate ratio.
Excellent, Excellent, Excellent! Thank you for the video Luis. The side by side comparison between the shim based valves and the cone valves is very helpful. Cheers 🚀
Thank you dear Ariel! 🙌 you never skip a beat 💪
On really big, square-edge type hits, the cone/poppet/spool valves have a big pressure spike that you don't get with shim valving. Shims can also react _a lot_ faster than something that has to physically move to uncover a hole.
I don't see why the cone would give a pressure spike
It functions similar to the RaceTech cartridge emulator which uses a disk with coil spring. The big secret is the spring. Nice graphics. Thanks for posting.
excellent. I have a question . when you talk about the balance of the base valve and the mid valve. softening the mid valve must also be done in the base valve? thank you
Thank you! It will depend on the degree of the change but it should be taken into account :)
btw this channel is a damn hidden gem!
Ahah! Thank you! 😄
Thanks! No matter how genial, it is a simple idea and easy to build. How is then the enormous cost of CV forks justified?
You're paying the innovation (and all the r&d behind it), not only the build cost 😉
@@StepstoPodium sure, but somebody will soon clone the design…
We'll have to wait and see! 😄
@@miro_syou are also paying for all cnc and coated parts with tighter tolerances vs stock forks.
People keep saying, "Why do cone valves cost so much?". They don't cost that much.. they're $3600 per set. If I go online right now and order a brand new set of STOCK forks for my 2022 ktm it would cost $2900. They're currently marked down to $2500 but you get the point. "Cone valve" forks are not JUST cone valves in stock forks. The upper tubes are straight and have no taper like stock forks do, making them substantially stiffer. The bottom lugs are billet vs. cast, and many of the parts hold much higher tolerances and are coated differently. Lastly, cone valves are somewhat sensitive to setup, which in a production standpoint would be a disaster for reviews as they would come valved for a very narrow set of riders. They can only do so much, hence why suspension should be the first money you spend on any bike as you likely don't meet the exact criteria it was set up for. So no, cone valves do not cost that much. They're only $700 more than a set of stock forks, and most people pay about that just to get billet lugs on a pair of stock forks. So I don't see how they're expensive.
Plus, all the comments I see regarding how expensive KTMs are, why should I have to spend so much money on suspension? Well, you really don't, just get a simple revalve and correct springs, and most will be plenty satisfied. You should literally do this with EVERY manufacturers' bikes.
Awesome video
Outro magnífico vídeo, inglês e subtitles 👍🔝👏👏👏👏👏👏
Muito obrigado! As legendas não perdem 😜
How do you think about conevalve vs kyb inserts ? I have kub inserts from technical touch. I like them for sure but never tried conevalves and still curious. I ride mx track and also cross country (c class rider)
I think the cone valve is really good for an aggressive rider for example 🙂
Be cool see video on mxtech forks and shock and how different is along with suspsion101 sprungmid(like a convalve) valve and gobblers(has h/l speed comp for base valve)
The Raven Cartridge kit arrived this week and will have an offroad engineered video dedicated to it 😄💪
Need to check that out.
This is not accurate, because the WP mid valve is more restrictive than say a kyb or Showa. So when the cone is open all the way it’s still more restrictive due to the port entrance hence the delta shims on the reb side. Also it’s common on kyb and aer to run a leaf spring shim setup giving a broader range to be in the sweet spot.
At the very least, I'd say it's a debatable point.
Why not put cone valves on both sides of both the main and mid-speed dampers?
It simply doesn't make sense to have that kind of valve on the base valve, it would make the overall suspension behaviour very hard to adjust, even with the adjustability it provides.
@@StepstoPodium Fair enough. Is there anything stopping it from being on both sides of the mid-speed valve, though?
The rebound valve doesn't need to have such complex and elaborate valves. What's available already covers all the needs you might have. On rebound you jest need to control the extension of the spring, that's all.
Great video, why are cone valve so expensive. It looks simple enough.
You are not paying for the manufacturing process, you're paying for the innovation and R&D behind finding a simple solution to a tricky problem 🙂🙌
Because the patents haven't expired just yet. Got to milk all they can till that tech opens up for others to use.
Great video but I will never consider buying a bike with WP. If you need to put +2000€ in a bike, just to get it to work properly. Well, than the suspension is not good at all. Even worse when the bike costs 1500-2000 more than their competitors from start.
Agreed... It's disgusting that I find myself here watching this video because the WP XPLOR fork on my brand new $13K bike sucks so bad. 😞
It this like an old-school is better thing?
90% of average riders don’t take the time to set the bike up. I have a 2022 gasgas ex250f and it’s the best stock suspension for riding woods and trails that I have ever rode. It struggles on moto, but play riding, trails, mixed woods, it’s excellent. Also have a 2024 250SXF and it’s bone stock and excellent. Took a few hours to figure out where I want clickers and sag, but it’s money.
@joelballard4955 completely agree with you!!!
one would think that increasing the spring weight on the mid valve shimstack would do the same but that probably changes the curve hmm. noob's POV
Now this makes me wonder why these subtle changes are costing thousands of dollars. 😂
Lot's of money for a suspension that doesn't work!!!
I go with the state of the art black Jack suspension from MX TECH USA. ( THE WIZARD JEREMY WILKEY)
i see this coming into MTB Suspension too in a few years, given its Advantages and reliability, and maybe even esier to produce and assemble