Thanks to this video I learned the midvalve on my 2022 drz wasn't misassembled at the factory, it's just not a "real" midvalve. The part where the rod entering the chamber, causing volume to decrease and flow oil past the basevalve was my "aha!" moment.
All the videos about the suspension, your explanations and the animations that you provide are brilliant and make the issues easy to understand. Thank you for the superb content!
Best video I've seen on the mid-valve. The moto people just leave it stock and most of the time they are ok. The off-road guys don't understand float and wonder why they don't have good forks in the rocks. I stopped arguing with people about settings back in 08, it's like casting pearls before swine. Thanks for the video and the work you put into it.
Amazing. I've been doing suspension for 30 years and I pick up something from every one of your videos. Your descriptions are so precise and are the most accurate I've encountered. Every other video I see can be a comedy of errors and bad info. No wonder suspension is such a misunderstood science. Thank you for all your videos. Keep up the awesome work!
Thank you so much! I really appreciate it. A lot of hours and study go into these videos and it's always good to see I'm bringing value to the tuner community and the offroad community as well 💪
I commented on your other two videos on shims already, but wanted to chime in here and say thank you again. There are precisely zero other videos on TH-cam that explain the midvalve as well as this one. Your animations are awesome.
Im really glad I to hear that! All these videos gave me a ton of work, but knowing there is at least one guy to which these videos helped and made a difference, makes it all so freaking worth it! I really appreciate you leaving a comment on each video 🙌💪
@@StepstoPodium there's more than one guy - I am another :-). Thank you - your work is excellent! I'm curious as to what you use for your animations, if you wouldn't mind sharing. Steve
I have a new Tuareg 660 and it appears the kyb fork compression shims in many, if not all, are bent due to mid-valve piston installed upside down! This led me to this video series. The animations are top notch as are the explanations that go with them. In particular the huge effect shim thickness has and the reason for using a set of thinner shims vs a thicker one. Time to tool up.
And I thank you for every single comment Jeff 💪 it helps the channel and gives me the fire to keep on doing the vids 🙌 if you thinks it's worth it, don't forget to share with your mates 👌
Are you able to do a video on a cone valve style mid valve? They’re becoming quite popular, and your videos are great at not only explaining how things work, but also their advantages and disadvantages.
I'm working on it! I have already tried to reach WP to know if they want to chip in with some insights but I'm still waiting for their reply... next up will be the ZF Open cartridge SFF! I got a hold of one of their engineers and he manage to help me figure out why they are build this way 😊
What would you say is the reason that you can't use only a midvalve to do all the compression damping without any restriction in the base valve at all?
2006 kx 250 2stroke midstroke rod the valuing nut came off the shims are mix up the shimstack is the only thing I need in a correct order to put this back together have any idea For the stock order other wise I will have to pull the other side off ?
Got a question . When we started reassembling the front shock , we filled it with oil and tried to pump the rod in and out to remove air . We didn’t see any bubbles , but the rod retracted and didn’t extend out . We pulled on the rod to fully extend it , but when we turned it loose it retracted on its own . What are we doing wrong ? One fork works fine and the other does not , puzzled ?
Ok....a question.. I've watched this a few times now and I initially missed this part. I understand the low speed orifice, but what is the low speed shim stack that you mention at 3:33? It seems to me that the low speed shim stack is the check valve/shim stack in the mid valve, but at 4:08 you add that in separately on the graph. What am I missing?
Every compression base valve has 3 different damping circuits, low-speed orifice, and the shim stacks. The shim stack is usually made of 2 stacks, the low-speed shim stack and high speed shim stack. although one is on top of the other, they contribute with two different circuits (It's weird, but it works like that!). The mid-speed valve, and its respective damping contribution, comes from the damping rod, and not the compression base valve, that's why I showed it separately. first I showed the damping curve with only the compression base valve, and then showed the damping curve with the base valve and MSV. It all adds up, even if it comes from different valves! I have another video regarding shim stacks and valving. Have you checked it? :)
@@StepstoPodium Thanks! I forgot about the double stack of shims on the base valve. Thanks! I will double check your referenced vid. I think I did watch it back when I first found these. You mentioned a crossover shim stack as I recall. A guy did that to our CRF years ago. Thanks for the great info!
Got a question, in MTB there is high and low speed rebound damping... I might be wrong but I have not seen this in MX or other motor sports... is it MTB marketing BS or can you get low/high speed rebound damping? My basic understanding is that the rate in which the shock returns is governed by the spring so you only have rebound damping making the high and low features a gimmick or am I wrong?
Great question! The truth is that, although moto and bike have and use kind of the same hydraulic circuits, the suspension principles are not exactly the same. On bikes, the rebound circuits have a much higher responsibility on how a suspension feels than on moto, which is the other way around, the compression has almost all responsibility than rebound - which is only there to control the extension of the spring. Why this happens? It's related to the sprung and unsprung mass of the bike, which is a lot different than on moto (weight-wise)
It ain't that easy to "update" one of these videos 😅😬 but if you really need to understand, we could schedule a technical session 💪 stepstopodium.com/technical-sessions/
@@StepstoPodium I might just look into this, props to you for offering such a service, especially to hobbyists like me. What would be even more awesome is if I could provide you with my bike’s model etc and whatever information you need for me and in return you provide shim stacks for me to modify my suspension, at a price of course. Business idea💡
We already do that on our technical sessions :) it's an open 1-on-1 session and will only depend on how deep you want to go on the topic you choose to address during the time we schedule 👊
great video with very simple animations, bravo, it's a shame for me that the explanations are in English because even with the translation it's not always clear, unfortunately I don't understand English well
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
How come this isn't the biggest motorcycle tech channel on Earth is a mystery to me...
Hopefully it will become some day 😁💪😂
@offroadoffcourse I know, what the hell is in the water?
Thanks to this video I learned the midvalve on my 2022 drz wasn't misassembled at the factory, it's just not a "real" midvalve. The part where the rod entering the chamber, causing volume to decrease and flow oil past the basevalve was my "aha!" moment.
All the videos about the suspension, your explanations and the animations that you provide are brilliant and make the issues easy to understand. Thank you for the superb content!
Thank you so much! 😄🙌 I'm glad could help 💪
Best video I've seen on the mid-valve. The moto people just leave it stock and most of the time they are ok. The off-road guys don't understand float and wonder why they don't have good forks in the rocks. I stopped arguing with people about settings back in 08, it's like casting pearls before swine. Thanks for the video and the work you put into it.
Thank you so much for the nice words! You have a lot more videos related to suspensions on the channel 🙌💪
That sounds intriguing...can you elaborate a little on the float in off-road applications for rocks and stuff?
Amazing. I've been doing suspension for 30 years and I pick up something from every one of your videos. Your descriptions are so precise and are the most accurate I've encountered. Every other video I see can be a comedy of errors and bad info. No wonder suspension is such a misunderstood science. Thank you for all your videos. Keep up the awesome work!
Thank you so much! I really appreciate it. A lot of hours and study go into these videos and it's always good to see I'm bringing value to the tuner community and the offroad community as well 💪
You have a great ability to teach! I always rewatch this video every time I re-valve a fork because I forget lol
Thank you so much! 🙌😄
I commented on your other two videos on shims already, but wanted to chime in here and say thank you again. There are precisely zero other videos on TH-cam that explain the midvalve as well as this one. Your animations are awesome.
Im really glad I to hear that! All these videos gave me a ton of work, but knowing there is at least one guy to which these videos helped and made a difference, makes it all so freaking worth it! I really appreciate you leaving a comment on each video 🙌💪
@@StepstoPodium there's more than one guy - I am another :-). Thank you - your work is excellent!
I'm curious as to what you use for your animations, if you wouldn't mind sharing.
Steve
Thank you very much Steve! 🙏
I use Adobe Illustrator to make the "parts" and then AfterEffects to make everything move 😄
that should be a video all by itself! lol. Thanks for the reply and for your great work!@@StepstoPodium
@@Souper309d ahah! maybe I'll do one, why not :) Thank you so much for dropping a comment and for watching the vids!
I have a new Tuareg 660 and it appears the kyb fork compression shims in many, if not all, are bent due to mid-valve piston installed upside down! This led me to this video series. The animations are top notch as are the explanations that go with them. In particular the huge effect shim thickness has and the reason for using a set of thinner shims vs a thicker one.
Time to tool up.
Thaaank you 🙌
I would be completely lost if not for these valving videos, Thank you!
Glad I could help! 🙌😄
These vids are great! Like most, I've seen the internals, but not understood how they work. These vids help a ton!
I really appreciate and I'm glad I could help! 🙌🙂
Great video.
Keep the valving videos coming.
More details on woods vs mx valving examples would be cool.
Extremes on setups also
Thank you Dale! It all comes down to experience and getting your hands dirty 💪 there's no magic serup for every suspension
Awesome as always. Thanks for following up with this video. Much appreciated.
👌👌💪💪💪
Melhor canal sobre motos que existe! Conteúdo muito didático!!!👏👏
Muito obrigado Junior!! 🙌🙌💪😄
Good illustration of the float in action 👍🏼
Thank you!!
Why would someone give a thumbs down to such a remarkable video ??? Their mother probably did not love them.
🤣🤣🤣
When you have haters, it means you are on the right path 😁😂
Excellent info, wasn't even aware that the mid-speed valve was a thing!
The more you know! 😄 #knowledgeispower
Thank you for the video. Can't wait to check out your other videos!
Thanks for watching! :D
I know I have commented on your other YT clips, but once again, awesome work.
And I thank you for every single comment Jeff 💪 it helps the channel and gives me the fire to keep on doing the vids 🙌 if you thinks it's worth it, don't forget to share with your mates 👌
@@StepstoPodium I will definitely share, thanks again mate.
Are you able to do a video on a cone valve style mid valve? They’re becoming quite popular, and your videos are great at not only explaining how things work, but also their advantages and disadvantages.
I'm working on it! I have already tried to reach WP to know if they want to chip in with some insights but I'm still waiting for their reply... next up will be the ZF Open cartridge SFF! I got a hold of one of their engineers and he manage to help me figure out why they are build this way 😊
What would you say is the reason that you can't use only a midvalve to do all the compression damping without any restriction in the base valve at all?
so mid speed valve is basically check valve with posibility to fine tune compression damping and avoid cavitation?
thank you. very useful and interesting information
Glad I could help! 🙌
Great video! Thank you
Super gald you took a look at both videos 🙌
Спасибо бро, очень полезная информация
Love this content! Keep it up!
Thank you!! 😄
Excellent video we learn important things..Thank you!!So how we can calculate the float that we need ?
Thank you!
Float you need for what?
@@StepstoPodium Sorry ..The float that helps for enduro
It depend from brand to brand, but try it out one shim at the time 😅
@@StepstoPodium I ride kyb on my new beta RE ..I feel it stiff at the fast trail so i will try like this one by one .. thanks
2006 kx 250 2stroke midstroke rod the valuing nut came off the shims are mix up the shimstack is the only thing I need in a correct order to put this back together have any idea For the stock order other wise I will have to pull the other side off ?
If you put thinner shims on a piston with smaller holes, the valving becomes softer, right?
It depends on the shims and the piston!
Got a question . When we started reassembling the front shock , we filled it with oil and tried to pump the rod in and out to remove air . We didn’t see any bubbles , but the rod retracted and didn’t extend out . We pulled on the rod to fully extend it , but when we turned it loose it retracted on its own . What are we doing wrong ?
One fork works fine and the other does not , puzzled ?
Is that on a closed cartridge?
Yes it’s a closed Cartrage
Then it's because it is not properly bled
How does matter the hole size of the sleeve of the midvalve ?
Ok....a question.. I've watched this a few times now and I initially missed this part. I understand the low speed orifice, but what is the low speed shim stack that you mention at 3:33? It seems to me that the low speed shim stack is the check valve/shim stack in the mid valve, but at 4:08 you add that in separately on the graph. What am I missing?
Every compression base valve has 3 different damping circuits, low-speed orifice, and the shim stacks. The shim stack is usually made of 2 stacks, the low-speed shim stack and high speed shim stack. although one is on top of the other, they contribute with two different circuits (It's weird, but it works like that!).
The mid-speed valve, and its respective damping contribution, comes from the damping rod, and not the compression base valve, that's why I showed it separately. first I showed the damping curve with only the compression base valve, and then showed the damping curve with the base valve and MSV. It all adds up, even if it comes from different valves!
I have another video regarding shim stacks and valving. Have you checked it? :)
@@StepstoPodium Thanks! I forgot about the double stack of shims on the base valve. Thanks! I will double check your referenced vid. I think I did watch it back when I first found these. You mentioned a crossover shim stack as I recall. A guy did that to our CRF years ago. Thanks for the great info!
Itsa pleasure to help! 🙂
Got a question, in MTB there is high and low speed rebound damping... I might be wrong but I have not seen this in MX or other motor sports... is it MTB marketing BS or can you get low/high speed rebound damping? My basic understanding is that the rate in which the shock returns is governed by the spring so you only have rebound damping making the high and low features a gimmick or am I wrong?
Great question! The truth is that, although moto and bike have and use kind of the same hydraulic circuits, the suspension principles are not exactly the same. On bikes, the rebound circuits have a much higher responsibility on how a suspension feels than on moto, which is the other way around, the compression has almost all responsibility than rebound - which is only there to control the extension of the spring.
Why this happens? It's related to the sprung and unsprung mass of the bike, which is a lot different than on moto (weight-wise)
@@StepstoPodium Thank you for this explanation
@highcarbrider glad I could help :)
Como van las cuñas de la valvula de compresión de una crf 250 2023. Para q sea más suave??
Dude! It's 1:00 AM I must sleep...You couldn't hold this upload until morning? :P
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Could you update this video based on the new Leaf Spring design shim stacks. I’m trying to understand it
It ain't that easy to "update" one of these videos 😅😬 but if you really need to understand, we could schedule a technical session 💪
stepstopodium.com/technical-sessions/
@@StepstoPodium I might just look into this, props to you for offering such a service, especially to hobbyists like me. What would be even more awesome is if I could provide you with my bike’s model etc and whatever information you need for me and in return you provide shim stacks for me to modify my suspension, at a price of course. Business idea💡
We already do that on our technical sessions :) it's an open 1-on-1 session and will only depend on how deep you want to go on the topic you choose to address during the time we schedule 👊
I think the stiffer the mid valve the more chance of cavitation.
AMAZING VIDEO KEEP LIKE THIS :D
Thank you so much!!! 💪💪🙌🙌
great video with very simple animations, bravo, it's a shame for me that the explanations are in English because even with the translation it's not always clear, unfortunately I don't understand English well
Thank you so much! 🙌💪
I love you man
🤣🤣 love you too! 😄
Excelente vídeo! Mas porque não em português ?
Muito obrigado manel! 💪💪 Porque assim consigo alcançar um público maior 😊
Top
🙌🙌 obrigado!!!
😊
🇧🇷🇧🇷👏👏🤘
No rebound talk 😮
You alreaey have a 3 videos talking about rebound 😉
@@StepstoPodium Where the heck at? I want the shim stack version.
It exacty the same thing with rebound in terms of tuning the shim stack. Keep in mind that rebound is a lot less sensible than compression
more like comp (lo) and comp(hi) < mid speed valve
TH-cam needs a par of glasses. 178 k not 17,8 k! 😝
Thank you Nuno! 😂👌 we'll get there!! 💪💪