my job specifically is setting up and measuring tooling in a production cnc shop. we use a lot of shrinkfit tool holders. if i remember correctly, those shrinkfit tools are typically made from H13 tool steel. one of the things i've noticed on shrinkfit tool bodies is that the more times you heat and change tooling, the tighter they seem to grab over time. i don't think youll have an issue with that since you likely arent changing endmills in your holder multiple times a week. but perhaps in 20 years time, you may get to a point where you want to pull a dull or chipped endmill and have to get the holder ridiculously hot to just barely be able to remove the endmill. also, it is worthwhile when you remove a dull tool, to allow the holder to cool and then clean inside the bore with a solvent and pipe brush before putting a new tool into the body. you could also make more of these in the same shank size but with shorter bodies to hold specific drill sizes you use frequently. it may help you change from a milling to a drilling operation without swapping out your collet for a drill chuck. just a thought... I'm slowly getting into manual hobby machning myself, so i get where some things aren't necessarily feasible for the home shop.
When doing a model engine piston bore I made a go/no-go guage out of some mild steel first. This was made using an external micrometer obviously and I also had a couple of smaller diameter steps before the "go" stage to let me know I was close. You could do the same with small holes and in this case you could make a test gauge with a shank based on your measurement of the end mill minus the shrink fit tolerance and use this to test your bores. Then there is no need to use an inside micrometer/calipers, just rely on your test guage and the known smaller diameter steps. Basically make your own custom gauge pins :)
This is the way to do it I was making bespoke go- nogo gauges in the early eighties a micrometer is far more accurate than a vernier we also used shadowgraphs to compare to precise drawings.
Nice work! ISO h6 tolerance on a 10mm nominal shaft is +0/-9μm, so the Chinese endmill's shank is probably within that tolerance. A typical shrink fit for an h6 shaft would be an S7 hole, which at 10mm nominal would be -17/-32μm. Steel boring bars are usually fine to 4xD or 5xD. The trick is to use a sharp finishing insert, at least for the final pass - a more blunt general-purpose insert has significantly greater cutting forces (especially at very low Ap), which greatly exacerbates bar deflection.
This is how we tool up our CNC's. We have the induction coil that goes around the holder and in about 5 seconds it's hot enough to remove and set the new tool. Very precise and ridged set up. But you had better be wearing the mitts that they provide.
You could try to lap the inside diameter of the toolholder with an expanding lap. That will give you a tremendously better surface finish and a parallel hole. If the hole is tapered at all the endmill will not be held rigidly. Normally they are ground but that’s not an option for your shop I believe
G'day Art. WOW 🤩 gorgeous tool holder BUT what an eye opener it was when you put in a new insert OMG 😳 - wouldn't have believed it unless I saw it! Extraordinary! Thanks for that video! Michael🇦🇺
With the HSS end mills you need a powerful induction heater so that the end mill doesn't get too warm while heating before you get it out. Talking about seconds probably
I put a hss tool into an actual proper tool holder with proper induction heater setup (or passable because its german). To this day I have not been able to remove it because hss is not supposed to be put in heat shrink. Only way it might come out is to edm it out.
@@TommiHonkonen that's the case with most of them but I've heard that some of the heaters now are so fast they can do that. Don't do it unless the manufacturer specifies it to be capable of that
Nice idea to use an endmill as a boring bar. I was thinking how would you make a holder for smaller endmills than what common boring bars can do, and then i saw you use a endmill as a boring bar and i realized yes that is how holders for smaller endmills can be made.
You should consider using a small toaster oven or your kitchen oven for the start of heating parts. My kitchen oven gets up to 550f (~290c) and for large parts that saves a lot of gas.
I recently cut off the set screw locking part of a 1/2” end mill holder right to the taper, of an R8 tapered holder. I then bored it open to hold a 3/4 “ ball nose end mill. I got a nice close fit and the used Red Locktite to hold in place. This allowed for the stubbiest extension of the end mill to reduce chattering. Worked well .
When I designed a small magnesium extrusion container, I specified an interference of 0.25 mm between the inner liner and the mantle. This required a temperature difference of approximately 350 celsius to put it together. The insane shrink fit produced a compressive load of something like 600 MPa on the inner liner, without this there was no hope of extruding the magnesium reliably without deforming the container (tensile yield strength was around 1100 MPa)
@@KS_ChemEng I don’t know which would really be better. I have heard the harbor freight porta band type is a good tool and can usually be had for about or just over $100 or so. If I make a table for it or maybe a stand to turn it into a sort of automatic metal cutting saw it could really do it all. But the hack saw idea can be very cheaply made and compact.
A very interesting video. Thanks! I use, for cost issues, almost only chinese made tools. They do pretty good. Especially tool steel roughing endmills. - wonderful for aluminum and brass.
I'm a professional Machinist who also own smaller machines at home and I find those cheap blue packaged Chinese HSS endmills work realy good for the price. The only big issue being they are not ground to the proper diameter they are often a little over or undersized, but thats only really an issue if your cutting a pocket in 1 pass like a key seat.
I'm making one for my 1943 Tree knee mill. Well two, I have two 19 mm 4 flute carbide end mills. @ 12:00 the tips of the cutter are what you want to check. Also I'm gonna turn my 3/4" end ( that's the largest collet a Z double taper will hold) between centers using the center hole in the endmill at the chuck end after I've sweated it on. To clean any runout created heating it. I have no plans of ever removing the end mill.
Nice one! I would not have thought of the runout on the taper or the drawbar causing the problem. You did well to get so little runout on the tool itself. I tried to make a 6mm toolholder once and the runout was atrocious.
On the subject of chinese carbide endmills, They are very well made in general. I’ve had little issues that were not my fault. For aluminium I recommend getting the bright finished 3 fluted ones or the DLC coated ones if you want to spend extra. They cut so well in my bridgeport and leave fabulous finishes without even trying. The dark coated ones are for steel, running them slower than rated is no problem I’ve foune but adjust your feed to match the required feed per tooth.
When you are trying to get perfectly sized holes for press fits and slip fits on a lathe, especially in a small lathe where the boring bar rigidity to material rigidity is in the favor of the material. I tend to rough out the material with a boring bar to undersized and ream it to size to avoid chatter and get a perfect fit!
Cool video, And great content. Having purchased a Index 745 recently and im still in the process of getting her cleaned up and wired in (Cold NE USA winter) Im investigating all available ideas for tooling. This mill use the B&S #9 system with the draw bar. Ive recently scored several different sized tool holders in the #9 size. I also added a set of #9 B&S spilt collets from 1/8th to 3/4 to have on hand just in case. Ive been lucky and scored some new and lots of used HSS end mills recently. And was lucky to find some new (or looked lightly used) Carbide tools mixed in with my BIG score of about 200 pieces that I picked up for $60.00 (USD) id say 85% was HSS and the rest was Carbide. And probably half of those Carbide where still new in sealed containers. So it definitely was a good score. Even the majority of the broken end mills appeared to be salvageable. Anf those that aren't ill do something with as scrap, They make great safety pins to use on the bottom of hitch pins on farm equipment. I try to never throw good steel away. It cost to much today. My goal with the Index 745 is to get more rigidity in a mill. I have a Grizzly G1006/1007 Drill Mill thats "Ok" for smaller lighter cut jobs. But this 1900 lbs Index knee mill was the KING of rigidity back in its day (new in 1968) Of the Vertical knee mills. Will see how it turns out. I really enjoy your channel. I lol when I hear you Brits call Aluminum "Al- mini- umm" I'm sure you lol at us red necks and our accents also. As you should. 😉😉😉👍👍👍. And while we at it, this is a Football 🏉. Not this ⚽️. LoL.
Very cute idea. Your boring bar is most likely fine. Your insert geometry isn't helping you. Use a smaller nose radius insert with less of an edge prep. That means it will feel sharper on the edges instead of being rounded off. Also find one with a positive rake for less cutting pressure. Also try feeding away from the spindle, sometimes the lead angle from feeding 'backwards' helps mitigate chatter. A diamond wheel is useful for repurposing and getting a bit more life out of insert tools. Accu-Finish (slow rpm diamond lapping machine) is a wonderful machine to have. I'm certain you can figure out how to fab one up. A project idea if you haven't made one for your lathe yet. A tool centering gauge.
Also, seems like taking some additional spring passes (without advancing the tool) with the boring bar when you are close to final dim will even out the hole diameter (power feed is your friend here, for even material removal!) .. For that matter, I would think that deflection of the boring bar wouldn't cause taper in the bore, unless there has been uneven stock removed or feed over the various passes - the boring bar would deflect the same amount independent of how deep it is in the hole. I typically use sharp edged cutters on my small lathe, mostly sharpened myself (not very experienced with inserts) - check out cheap imported diamond grinding wheels, can be a good start for this, but low speed diamond lapping sounds appealing as well, especially for tiny edges of tools - lining up a tiny edge on a 3600rpm wheel is not easy freehand... Great to see someone try this!
when we use to drive bearing races we would heat and cool the part going in. Just a thought for next time. Don't know of freezing the endmill would hurt it
the difference between the surfaces machined with and without the cross slide really is night and day. I guess you weren't lying when you said removing it was good for rigidity.
Making and using small diameter laps for precision holes is very easy and provides excellent results with just a little practice. Tom Lipton (Ox Tools) and Robin Renzetti (RobRenz) have both covered this topic with videos on making and using laps. Best part is the process is cheap. Scrap piece of aluminum and a little diamond paste is all you need.
Great idea. I no longer use carbide tooling on my lathe (12") after discovering the Diamond tool holder with a cobalt bit. On your size lathe, it is necessary.
Carbide is made for heavy cuts high heat. A lathe with a 1hp or larger motor that is rigid enough to handle it. Cobalt is fine for all metals Including stainless. It also can hold a sharper edge and can be resharpened.
@@yt66228 oh im well aware of the merits of good HSS, particularly when working stainless, generally speaking it is sharper than carbide and therefore doesn't tend to work harden material. It is also extremely useful for 1 off form tool situations etc and is much easier to hand grind. But to say the size of a machine has much impact on selection of tool material is kinda silly. Forgive me if im wrong but the lathe in the video appeared to be a tiny toy of a machine(im from the school of thought that the first real lathe is around 15" with exception to dedicated chuckers.) If carbide wasn't for small low HP, less ridgid machines carbide mans wouldn't be producing tiny inserts with IC of less than 1/4"
One suggestion. You might consider some other holder for heating up the holder. Aluminum sinks heat very quickly which might account for your tool only fitting to 90% depth. I would suggest a bent steel wire for a test.
Works great ! I did contemplate something like this but a lot shorter and more like a short sleeve over the end Mill shank so it brought all the shanks up to the same size ( 20mm ) and I could use one size ER collet or MT collet for most of my work . I ended up getting a couple of 20mm end mills and a drill chuck with a 20 mm spigot and use them the most , I only change over to the smaller cutters when I absolutely have to and run them in my ER holder . I wonder if for small cutters if using some high strength loctite retaining compound would be sufficient ?
The carbide end mills are perfectly fine to use usually. What I like them for it stuff you know is going to break an end mill but is really hard and you still need to mill. Like weld beads or brazed joint on cast iron that maybe got a little to hot and started to make glass or whatever that byproduct is. That crap is so hard on tooling. But sometimes you just HAVE to do the job. These are perfect for that kinda stuff. Basically a throwaway tool. Good stuff. Liked the video and subscribed because of it. Hoping to start uploading videos myself again as soon as my replacement shop is finished. (Other one burned flat )😔
Thankyou for sharing your perspective. Knowing how my welds usually turn out, maybe ill be using the carbide more often. Hope to see stuff from you soon, i've subbed and ill be looking out. Cheers
Kind of an old video but, for heat shrink tooling, I think(take this with a grain of salt as I've never done this myself) you have to harden the tool holder first, grind it concentric and then fit the tool. Hardening or annealing steel warps it enough that grinding is usually a neccessary step.
You can take those little inserts and hand grind them against glass backed waterpaper... It takes time, but not that long, just pick it gently, lay it as it wants to lay on the side and rub it out... flip it to the top side down, grind down the top side a bit... You will quickly establish the edge, and what is more, you can hone them outta box if you need to reduce tool pressure that they cause due to their factory grind... It goes much faster with a tool&cutter grinder with 8 axis compound system, but before i got mine, i sharpened them like the kitchen knives... Wet sandpaper and a glass plate underneath... Get some different paper, wet paper in grits from 100-5000 is invaluable for any work... Truth be told, if i need to polish something that is scraped in, i will lay it scraped side on the glass plate with 5k sandpaper on it and give it a whirl, then take plain printer paper and 1 micron diamond lapping compound... It will take an hour, maybe two, but the endresult is a surface at the desired and preset angle, with what is essentially above grade 00 gauge blocks... You can do amazing work with just some flat glass, lubricant and elbow grease... Be it precision ground and polished spacers or be it fixing antique and/or costly watches and jewelry...
Also, consider what i said regarding precision spacers... Take your drawbar, jaw it, make it central, polish up the ``smooth`` section below the head of the dbar, no more than a centimeter or so, check the size with the micrometer, make it even and make it a bearing surface... After that, take a chunk of steel, cast, stainless, bronze it dont matter much, and chuck it up in the lathe, make a spacer that will fit in your spindle from the top, and allow the dbar to slide in it and have a smooth running fit in it... I dont know how to explain it to you better, but i guess you understand what im saying, a shouldered bearing that will allow you to use the drawbar, but will hold it as concentric as you make it, to the spindle, so you never have to bother with it, you have a bore that aligns the dbar for you and you just have to sinch it up in the holder without considering the position... It will reduce your thread engagement, but thats why the shoulder can be made like 2 mm thick, its just there to hold the bearing as not to fall down the spindle towards the threaded part of the dbar... If your mill is similar to mine, the drawbar has around 18 threads of engagement in the toolholder, so losing 2 or 4 threads wont hurt it even marginally, and will allow you to run max rpm without a care for the drawbar in the world... Now the holder runouts are another thing entirely, but if you can see what im trying to paint here, i believe you will make it... Or just remake the drawbar to that fit atop the spindle and have all the thread engagement you want, along with perfect concentricity to the spindle... A high quality drawbar if you want, a premium quality, one of a kind, custom honed just for your mill... Its a good thing either way... tho a spacer is much easier to make as its 1/15th the size of a dbar...
Taper bore you get was mostly becouse of to small depth of cut. Insert have rounded eadges and nead to bite into material. You can try few things. Get a carbide boring bar, boring from inside out, or using sharper insert like those designed for aluminium or regrind what you already have by hand on diamond lap
@@spikeypineapple552 I have to agree with you on that score.........most lathes do cut tape even from new and most people just let a lathe lay on a bench top unbolted without realising the bed can warp over it's length.
I feel like you might wanna fix that draw bar issue. I can think of using a tapered washer to center it in the hole (cut the cone to the bore ID, and leave a flange to act as a washer, and then use super heavy duty grease between the fit). Another thing is with non ridged lathes and tool holders, carbide cannot bite correctly so a high speed steel or as you did with the end mill will cut bores better. You can also take a few extra finishing passes or cut a taper with the tool to account for the bend but that’s a lot of trial and error. TLDR: Just don’t use carbide with a flimsy tool.
Yeah I get away with carbide more often than I should. I have ground up hss borning bars, and I probably should have here but I didn't feel like it. I'm looking at getting a solid carbide boring bar and hss inserts once the budget allows for it. Cheers
Carbide isn’t the problem. The geometry of the insert is. Most inserts are not actually sharp, they have a small radius on the cutting edge and as such require more tool pressure to cut. Fine finishing inserts are often sharper, but you can do better in your own shop. This is by regrinding inserts. Stefan Gotteswinter covers this a few times, and his video explains it better than I can in a comment. Inserts for aluminum also make for good finishing inserts in softer steels, but you definitely want to limit cut depth.
I also have those endmills on a small milling machine and they dont work any good in steel or aluminium.. even in high or low rpms.. they look and feel amazing.. but in my opinion i preffer titanium coated ones or regular hss
To save having to clean the toolholder every change of cutter there are small cheap Chinese induction heating coil kits that should do a faster and cleaner job.
why would the boring bar flex more deeper inside the hole? correct me if i'm wrong but shouldn't it flex the same amount, no matter how deep you go? your workpiece could flex and create a taper tho
personally i would finish the hole and taper in the mill spindle to make sure that its as precise and lowest runout as you can with a budget machine also its cheaper to convert you boring bar to a carbide one ( stefan gotteswinter have a video anout it )
If you want the longest life from your carbide tooling, then keep the water based coolant away from it while in use. Carbide cannot handle thermal shock like high speed steel can. If you can't run the feed and speed required go obtain an optimal finish a little light oil can improve the surface finish.
cant wait for you to get a saw so the cut off brolls take just a second. I use some heat shrink tooling at work but they are currently just for through cooled drills. Nowdays if I got to choose my tooling say for a brand new machine I'd get only rego fix power grip.
If you run the numbers freezing it wouldn't do much, you really need to duni it in liquid nitrogen to make a tangible difference. With all.that said I really was pushing this lathe beyond what it really is meant to do. Cheers
This endmill with this type of coating is not suitable for machining aluminium, you need a different tool for that, polished type with a very sharp cutting edge, or with a DLC coating.
@@artisanmakes I personaly don't use any carbide end mills on my machine, it is too old and slow for it, when I do aluminium I use normal HSS tools, I use carbide only when I have trouble machining harder types of steel which can dull my tools easily, but I know DLC coated carbide end mills give the best results in aluminium.
I have no machine shop experience, so maybe I'm talking complete rubbish here... The tool holder you made is tapered (for obvious reasons), so when heated, would not the narrow end get hotter sooner than the thicker end? If that is the case, then the thin end will expand more as well. Just my 2 cents....
@@bobweiram6321 My experiemce of heating treating tapers is that the narrow end tends to heat up faster and then cool off quicker, but in addition the thicker section will be radially stiffer. All this is probably not an issue if the part is at a stable temperature when you fit the tool, but It is a risk.
It's a fact that you can't slide a 20mm pin into a 20mm diam hole.....you need to be approx .02mm undersize to get it in without sticking.........on that basis if you make plug gauges for hole testing you need to make them undersize......how much undersize?........cut and try etc.
nah .... if u have a slow router maybeee.... and good cooling.. i mean the type of cooling that eats 50% of ur profit margins... otherwise that thing... is a disaster waiting to happen... 1/10 of a mm dilation and that tool flies in heaven hopefully alone... and not with collateral body parts.
That certainly isn't the case on my mill. It's a great tool and it can do some heavy machining. Not sure how you came to that conclusion, maybe different set ups that you are used to using. Cheers
my job specifically is setting up and measuring tooling in a production cnc shop. we use a lot of shrinkfit tool holders. if i remember correctly, those shrinkfit tools are typically made from H13 tool steel. one of the things i've noticed on shrinkfit tool bodies is that the more times you heat and change tooling, the tighter they seem to grab over time. i don't think youll have an issue with that since you likely arent changing endmills in your holder multiple times a week. but perhaps in 20 years time, you may get to a point where you want to pull a dull or chipped endmill and have to get the holder ridiculously hot to just barely be able to remove the endmill. also, it is worthwhile when you remove a dull tool, to allow the holder to cool and then clean inside the bore with a solvent and pipe brush before putting a new tool into the body. you could also make more of these in the same shank size but with shorter bodies to hold specific drill sizes you use frequently. it may help you change from a milling to a drilling operation without swapping out your collet for a drill chuck. just a thought... I'm slowly getting into manual hobby machning myself, so i get where some things aren't necessarily feasible for the home shop.
When doing a model engine piston bore I made a go/no-go guage out of some mild steel first. This was made using an external micrometer obviously and I also had a couple of smaller diameter steps before the "go" stage to let me know I was close. You could do the same with small holes and in this case you could make a test gauge with a shank based on your measurement of the end mill minus the shrink fit tolerance and use this to test your bores. Then there is no need to use an inside micrometer/calipers, just rely on your test guage and the known smaller diameter steps. Basically make your own custom gauge pins :)
This is the way to do it I was making bespoke go- nogo gauges in the early eighties a micrometer is far more accurate than a vernier we also used shadowgraphs to compare to precise drawings.
It has never occured to me to make a shrink fit tool holder until now! Excellent solution for your project where a long reach is needed.
Nice work!
ISO h6 tolerance on a 10mm nominal shaft is +0/-9μm, so the Chinese endmill's shank is probably within that tolerance. A typical shrink fit for an h6 shaft would be an S7 hole, which at 10mm nominal would be -17/-32μm.
Steel boring bars are usually fine to 4xD or 5xD. The trick is to use a sharp finishing insert, at least for the final pass - a more blunt general-purpose insert has significantly greater cutting forces (especially at very low Ap), which greatly exacerbates bar deflection.
This is how we tool up our CNC's. We have the induction coil that goes around the holder and in about 5 seconds it's hot enough to remove and set the new tool. Very precise and ridged set up. But you had better be wearing the mitts that they provide.
Dang thats cool!
Fires Cooler
Is it ridged for her pleasurable use of a rigid tool?
@@harlech2 Absolutely. That's the best part of a ridged tool eh?
I want to check out the Haimer system. That's the best of the best
I am so amazed at what you consistently achieve with the tools that you have. And excellent video quality and narration.
You could try to lap the inside diameter of the toolholder with an expanding lap. That will give you a tremendously better surface finish and a parallel hole.
If the hole is tapered at all the endmill will not be held rigidly.
Normally they are ground but that’s not an option for your shop I believe
G'day Art. WOW 🤩 gorgeous tool holder BUT what an eye opener it was when you put in a new insert OMG 😳 - wouldn't have believed it unless I saw it! Extraordinary! Thanks for that video! Michael🇦🇺
With the HSS end mills you need a powerful induction heater so that the end mill doesn't get too warm while heating before you get it out. Talking about seconds probably
I put a hss tool into an actual proper tool holder with proper induction heater setup (or passable because its german). To this day I have not been able to remove it because hss is not supposed to be put in heat shrink. Only way it might come out is to edm it out.
@@TommiHonkonen that's the case with most of them but I've heard that some of the heaters now are so fast they can do that. Don't do it unless the manufacturer specifies it to be capable of that
@@MF175mp it doesn't matter how fast the heater is, the HSS heats up almost as fast as the tool holder so it won't get out
@@lennarthoek8392 "Shrink range Ø 3 - 32 mm for carbide shanks and Ø 6 - 32 mm for HSS shanks."
Diebold shrink unit, can't put links here
Haimer Power Clamp shrink unit: "Tools: Solid carbide and HSS from Ø 3 - 32 mm"
Nice idea to use an endmill as a boring bar. I was thinking how would you make a holder for smaller endmills than what common boring bars can do, and then i saw you use a endmill as a boring bar and i realized yes that is how holders for smaller endmills can be made.
You should consider using a small toaster oven or your kitchen oven for the start of heating parts. My kitchen oven gets up to 550f (~290c) and for large parts that saves a lot of gas.
I recently cut off the set screw locking part of a 1/2” end mill holder right to the taper, of an R8 tapered holder. I then bored it open to hold a 3/4 “ ball nose end mill. I got a nice close fit and the used Red Locktite to hold in place. This allowed for the stubbiest extension of the end mill to reduce chattering. Worked well .
When I designed a small magnesium extrusion container, I specified an interference of 0.25 mm between the inner liner and the mantle. This required a temperature difference of approximately 350 celsius to put it together. The insane shrink fit produced a compressive load of something like 600 MPa on the inner liner, without this there was no hope of extruding the magnesium reliably without deforming the container (tensile yield strength was around 1100 MPa)
awesome stuff.. get yourself a cheap horizontal bandsaw, you'll not regret it
Or make a power hacksaw, Has to be better than sawing by hand!
@@NoTimeForThatNow I made one a while back from 3d printed parts, while it worked, it pales in comparison and is about the same price
@@KS_ChemEng I don’t know which would really be better. I have heard the harbor freight porta band type is a good tool and can usually be had for about or just over $100 or so. If I make a table for it or maybe a stand to turn it into a sort of automatic metal cutting saw it could really do it all. But the hack saw idea can be very cheaply made and compact.
Solid advice!
Glad you did this first, now I won't bother trying to make shrink fit tooling 😆
I use retaining compound. Less fuss getting the tool out.
A very interesting video. Thanks!
I use, for cost issues, almost only chinese made tools.
They do pretty good. Especially tool steel roughing endmills. - wonderful for aluminum and brass.
I'm a professional Machinist who also own smaller machines at home and I find those cheap blue packaged Chinese HSS endmills work realy good for the price. The only big issue being they are not ground to the proper diameter they are often a little over or undersized, but thats only really an issue if your cutting a pocket in 1 pass like a key seat.
Interesting, great to hear your insight into these end mills. They are certainly a lot better than they used to be. Cheers
I'm making one for my 1943 Tree knee mill. Well two, I have two 19 mm 4 flute carbide end mills. @ 12:00 the tips of the cutter are what you want to check. Also I'm gonna turn my 3/4" end ( that's the largest collet a Z double taper will hold) between centers using the center hole in the endmill at the chuck end after I've sweated it on. To clean any runout created heating it. I have no plans of ever removing the end mill.
Nice one! I would not have thought of the runout on the taper or the drawbar causing the problem. You did well to get so little runout on the tool itself. I tried to make a 6mm toolholder once and the runout was atrocious.
On the subject of chinese carbide endmills, They are very well made in general. I’ve had little issues that were not my fault. For aluminium I recommend getting the bright finished 3 fluted ones or the DLC coated ones if you want to spend extra. They cut so well in my bridgeport and leave fabulous finishes without even trying. The dark coated ones are for steel, running them slower than rated is no problem I’ve foune but adjust your feed to match the required feed per tooth.
When you are trying to get perfectly sized holes for press fits and slip fits on a lathe, especially in a small lathe where the boring bar rigidity to material rigidity is in the favor of the material. I tend to rough out the material with a boring bar to undersized and ream it to size to avoid chatter and get a perfect fit!
Cool video, And great content. Having purchased a Index 745 recently and im still in the process of getting her cleaned up and wired in (Cold NE USA winter) Im investigating all available ideas for tooling. This mill use the B&S #9 system with the draw bar. Ive recently scored several different sized tool holders in the #9 size. I also added a set of #9 B&S spilt collets from 1/8th to 3/4 to have on hand just in case. Ive been lucky and scored some new and lots of used HSS end mills recently. And was lucky to find some new (or looked lightly used) Carbide tools mixed in with my BIG score of about 200 pieces that I picked up for $60.00 (USD) id say 85% was HSS and the rest was Carbide. And probably half of those Carbide where still new in sealed containers. So it definitely was a good score. Even the majority of the broken end mills appeared to be salvageable. Anf those that aren't ill do something with as scrap, They make great safety pins to use on the bottom of hitch pins on farm equipment. I try to never throw good steel away. It cost to much today. My goal with the Index 745 is to get more rigidity in a mill. I have a Grizzly G1006/1007 Drill Mill thats "Ok" for smaller lighter cut jobs. But this 1900 lbs Index knee mill was the KING of rigidity back in its day (new in 1968) Of the Vertical knee mills. Will see how it turns out. I really enjoy your channel. I lol when I hear you Brits call Aluminum "Al- mini- umm" I'm sure you lol at us red necks and our accents also. As you should. 😉😉😉👍👍👍.
And while we at it, this is a Football 🏉. Not this ⚽️. LoL.
Artisan is an Aussie!
Very cool. We shared this video on our homemade tools forum this week 😎
If you wanted a completely straight bore you could try honing it, itll improve the surface finish too
Very cute idea.
Your boring bar is most likely fine. Your insert geometry isn't helping you. Use a smaller nose radius insert with less of an edge prep. That means it will feel sharper on the edges instead of being rounded off. Also find one with a positive rake for less cutting pressure. Also try feeding away from the spindle, sometimes the lead angle from feeding 'backwards' helps mitigate chatter.
A diamond wheel is useful for repurposing and getting a bit more life out of insert tools. Accu-Finish (slow rpm diamond lapping machine) is a wonderful machine to have. I'm certain you can figure out how to fab one up.
A project idea if you haven't made one for your lathe yet. A tool centering gauge.
Also, seems like taking some additional spring passes (without advancing the tool) with the boring bar when you are close to final dim will even out the hole diameter (power feed is your friend here, for even material removal!) .. For that matter, I would think that deflection of the boring bar wouldn't cause taper in the bore, unless there has been uneven stock removed or feed over the various passes - the boring bar would deflect the same amount independent of how deep it is in the hole. I typically use sharp edged cutters on my small lathe, mostly sharpened myself (not very experienced with inserts) - check out cheap imported diamond grinding wheels, can be a good start for this, but low speed diamond lapping sounds appealing as well, especially for tiny edges of tools - lining up a tiny edge on a 3600rpm wheel is not easy freehand...
Great to see someone try this!
when we use to drive bearing races we would heat and cool the part going in. Just a thought for next time. Don't know of freezing the endmill would hurt it
Please consider making a power hacksaw! I’ve wanted one for a while and would love to see your approach on it.
the difference between the surfaces machined with and without the cross slide really is night and day. I guess you weren't lying when you said removing it was good for rigidity.
Making and using small diameter laps for precision holes is very easy and provides excellent results with just a little practice. Tom Lipton (Ox Tools) and Robin Renzetti (RobRenz) have both covered this topic with videos on making and using laps.
Best part is the process is cheap. Scrap piece of aluminum and a little diamond paste is all you need.
certainly a good suggestion. That probably would have been my go to if I had run out issues. Thankyou.
Great idea. I no longer use carbide tooling on my lathe (12") after discovering the Diamond tool holder with a cobalt bit. On your size lathe, it is necessary.
What about his lathe size would make carbide necessary?
Carbide is made for heavy cuts high heat. A lathe with a 1hp or larger motor that is rigid enough to handle it. Cobalt is fine for all metals Including stainless. It also can hold a sharper edge and can be resharpened.
@@yt66228 oh im well aware of the merits of good HSS, particularly when working stainless, generally speaking it is sharper than carbide and therefore doesn't tend to work harden material. It is also extremely useful for 1 off form tool situations etc and is much easier to hand grind. But to say the size of a machine has much impact on selection of tool material is kinda silly. Forgive me if im wrong but the lathe in the video appeared to be a tiny toy of a machine(im from the school of thought that the first real lathe is around 15" with exception to dedicated chuckers.) If carbide wasn't for small low HP, less ridgid machines carbide mans wouldn't be producing tiny inserts with IC of less than 1/4"
One suggestion. You might consider some other holder for heating up the holder. Aluminum sinks heat very quickly which might account for your tool only fitting to 90% depth. I would suggest a bent steel wire for a test.
Works great !
I did contemplate something like this but a lot shorter and more like a short sleeve over the end Mill shank so it brought all the shanks up to the same size ( 20mm ) and I could use one size ER collet or MT collet for most of my work . I ended up getting a couple of 20mm end mills and a drill chuck with a 20 mm spigot and use them the most , I only change over to the smaller cutters when I absolutely have to and run them in my ER holder . I wonder if for small cutters if using some high strength loctite retaining compound would be sufficient ?
The carbide end mills are perfectly fine to use usually. What I like them for it stuff you know is going to break an end mill but is really hard and you still need to mill. Like weld beads or brazed joint on cast iron that maybe got a little to hot and started to make glass or whatever that byproduct is. That crap is so hard on tooling. But sometimes you just HAVE to do the job. These are perfect for that kinda stuff. Basically a throwaway tool. Good stuff. Liked the video and subscribed because of it. Hoping to start uploading videos myself again as soon as my replacement shop is finished. (Other one burned flat )😔
Thankyou for sharing your perspective. Knowing how my welds usually turn out, maybe ill be using the carbide more often. Hope to see stuff from you soon, i've subbed and ill be looking out. Cheers
That sucks about loosing your workshop. :-(
Really cool and interesting project! I like the idea behind:)
For 8 dollars, you have made a really nice end-mill holder.
Kind of an old video but, for heat shrink tooling, I think(take this with a grain of salt as I've never done this myself) you have to harden the tool holder first, grind it concentric and then fit the tool. Hardening or annealing steel warps it enough that grinding is usually a neccessary step.
Carbide is spot on for harder materials and mild, steel.. 2 flute hss is best for aluminium
You can take those little inserts and hand grind them against glass backed waterpaper... It takes time, but not that long, just pick it gently, lay it as it wants to lay on the side and rub it out... flip it to the top side down, grind down the top side a bit... You will quickly establish the edge, and what is more, you can hone them outta box if you need to reduce tool pressure that they cause due to their factory grind... It goes much faster with a tool&cutter grinder with 8 axis compound system, but before i got mine, i sharpened them like the kitchen knives... Wet sandpaper and a glass plate underneath... Get some different paper, wet paper in grits from 100-5000 is invaluable for any work... Truth be told, if i need to polish something that is scraped in, i will lay it scraped side on the glass plate with 5k sandpaper on it and give it a whirl, then take plain printer paper and 1 micron diamond lapping compound... It will take an hour, maybe two, but the endresult is a surface at the desired and preset angle, with what is essentially above grade 00 gauge blocks... You can do amazing work with just some flat glass, lubricant and elbow grease... Be it precision ground and polished spacers or be it fixing antique and/or costly watches and jewelry...
Also, consider what i said regarding precision spacers... Take your drawbar, jaw it, make it central, polish up the ``smooth`` section below the head of the dbar, no more than a centimeter or so, check the size with the micrometer, make it even and make it a bearing surface... After that, take a chunk of steel, cast, stainless, bronze it dont matter much, and chuck it up in the lathe, make a spacer that will fit in your spindle from the top, and allow the dbar to slide in it and have a smooth running fit in it... I dont know how to explain it to you better, but i guess you understand what im saying, a shouldered bearing that will allow you to use the drawbar, but will hold it as concentric as you make it, to the spindle, so you never have to bother with it, you have a bore that aligns the dbar for you and you just have to sinch it up in the holder without considering the position... It will reduce your thread engagement, but thats why the shoulder can be made like 2 mm thick, its just there to hold the bearing as not to fall down the spindle towards the threaded part of the dbar... If your mill is similar to mine, the drawbar has around 18 threads of engagement in the toolholder, so losing 2 or 4 threads wont hurt it even marginally, and will allow you to run max rpm without a care for the drawbar in the world... Now the holder runouts are another thing entirely, but if you can see what im trying to paint here, i believe you will make it... Or just remake the drawbar to that fit atop the spindle and have all the thread engagement you want, along with perfect concentricity to the spindle... A high quality drawbar if you want, a premium quality, one of a kind, custom honed just for your mill... Its a good thing either way... tho a spacer is much easier to make as its 1/15th the size of a dbar...
Taper bore you get was mostly becouse of to small depth of cut. Insert have rounded eadges and nead to bite into material. You can try few things. Get a carbide boring bar, boring from inside out, or using sharper insert like those designed for aluminium or regrind what you already have by hand on diamond lap
It's a problem tool holder, on any cut. I've spoken about this set up and I'm about to replace it. It's a Cheap holder and it really shows. Cheers
@@artisanmakes I bet 2 pounds that the taper is in the lathe. Why would the bar deflect more at the bottom of the hgole?
@@spikeypineapple552 I have to agree with you on that score.........most lathes do cut tape even from new and most people just let a lathe lay on a bench top unbolted without realising the bed can warp over it's length.
That is good if the cutter would last for ever. Can we reuse one of them when the other got worn down or broken?
That aluminum is one heck of a heat sink 😅
Southbend 9 here and i found i can rarely use insert tooling because of the angles required and pressures. I resort to sharp hss
I feel like you might wanna fix that draw bar issue. I can think of using a tapered washer to center it in the hole (cut the cone to the bore ID, and leave a flange to act as a washer, and then use super heavy duty grease between the fit).
Another thing is with non ridged lathes and tool holders, carbide cannot bite correctly so a high speed steel or as you did with the end mill will cut bores better. You can also take a few extra finishing passes or cut a taper with the tool to account for the bend but that’s a lot of trial and error. TLDR: Just don’t use carbide with a flimsy tool.
Yeah I get away with carbide more often than I should. I have ground up hss borning bars, and I probably should have here but I didn't feel like it. I'm looking at getting a solid carbide boring bar and hss inserts once the budget allows for it. Cheers
Carbide isn’t the problem. The geometry of the insert is. Most inserts are not actually sharp, they have a small radius on the cutting edge and as such require more tool pressure to cut. Fine finishing inserts are often sharper, but you can do better in your own shop. This is by regrinding inserts. Stefan Gotteswinter covers this a few times, and his video explains it better than I can in a comment.
Inserts for aluminum also make for good finishing inserts in softer steels, but you definitely want to limit cut depth.
This is an exelent idea!
Next time you might be able to test the first 20mm of the hole for taper by sticking a dial test indicator in there
Somebody get this guy a horizontal bandsaw.
From 4:30 on, I would have done that in the mill. With the cutter in the vice.
nice work,
Ooo mate.
The boring bar does bend and it does not result in taper.
Think of your tools as surfing through the material!
I also have those endmills on a small milling machine and they dont work any good in steel or aluminium.. even in high or low rpms.. they look and feel amazing.. but in my opinion i preffer titanium coated ones or regular hss
Did you deburr the “air relief hole” you drilled? I’d be worried about a burr forming inside, at the bottom of your bored hole from the drilled one.
To save having to clean the toolholder every change of cutter there are small cheap Chinese induction heating coil kits that should do a faster and cleaner job.
nicely done.
why would the boring bar flex more deeper inside the hole? correct me if i'm wrong but shouldn't it flex the same amount, no matter how deep you go?
your workpiece could flex and create a taper tho
That's exactly right
Great work, thanks.
personally i would finish the hole and taper in the mill spindle to make sure that its as precise and lowest runout as you can with a budget machine
also its cheaper to convert you boring bar to a carbide one ( stefan gotteswinter have a video anout it )
Man, polishing the toolholder with the inserted carbide end mill was a bit scary. One slip and hello!
If you want the longest life from your carbide tooling, then keep the water based coolant away from it while in use. Carbide cannot handle thermal shock like high speed steel can.
If you can't run the feed and speed required go obtain an optimal finish a little light oil can improve the surface finish.
Any plans to center your drawbar??
Hah, I almost burned my workshop down, and all I was doing was installing the brackets to hold fire extinguishers. 🙄😜😂😂
That inside surface looks rough as hell in the first few shots...but achieving that in a hobby shop is still impressive
That’s the first thing I noticed. I see concentricity issues in the future.
Yeah if i didnt get it in the second time, or if I had concentricity issues that would have been the next thing to tackle. Cheers
That is great
cant wait for you to get a saw so the cut off brolls take just a second. I use some heat shrink tooling at work but they are currently just for through cooled drills. Nowdays if I got to choose my tooling say for a brand new machine I'd get only rego fix power grip.
will better final boring in tool holder making in mill & mark position & put on in future in same position. your can have 3-5 micron wobbling.
5:36 you need some telescoping gauges
next project, making a reamer....isn't a diy/homemade D reamer the simplest?, taking 50% off diameter...
What about gauge pins, or at least gauge pins that you make yourself?
You could have froze the end Mill tool and made the tolerances a little bit tighter freeze the end Mill heat the holder makes for a tighter fit
If you run the numbers freezing it wouldn't do much, you really need to duni it in liquid nitrogen to make a tangible difference. With all.that said I really was pushing this lathe beyond what it really is meant to do. Cheers
Try yg tooling it’s actually really good and affordable
Thanks
Ceck out Seco inserts...its a different cutting compared to the cheap ones.
Hi can you tell where you purchased the collet mt3 sleeve
aliexpress
You said you had to max out your rpm, do you know roughly what that is? I have only used hss, but have been considering getting carbide.
its about 2500 rpm on this mill, though im sure I could bump it up by changing the timing belt sizes
@@artisanmakes I guess, just don’t push the material through as fast!
Interesting 👍.
9:05 "scrap piece of aluminiun" - its part of linear scale
Yeah they didn't end up working so I built my own scale mounts. So they ended up in the scrap bin. Cheers
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
Oh my, I saw you loose all of your fingers at 11:20
Me making this tool holder 6hrs. Me crashing the mill 5 min. later lol
This endmill with this type of coating is not suitable for machining aluminium, you need a different tool for that, polished type with a very sharp cutting edge, or with a DLC coating.
No but you can get away with it. I have 2 flute hss for aluminium so it's not a problem. Cheers
@@artisanmakes I personaly don't use any carbide end mills on my machine, it is too old and slow for it, when I do aluminium I use normal HSS tools, I use carbide only when I have trouble machining harder types of steel which can dull my tools easily, but I know DLC coated carbide end mills give the best results in aluminium.
I have no machine shop experience, so maybe I'm talking complete rubbish here... The tool holder you made is tapered (for obvious reasons), so when heated, would not the narrow end get hotter sooner than the thicker end? If that is the case, then the thin end will expand more as well. Just my 2 cents....
Yeah, so I'd assume that there is more compression at the narrow end. It still is compressing at the front but not as much.
Did you not consider that the "taper" in the hole may have been caused by differential temperature causing less expansion on the thicker section?
So long as you heat up the general region of the holder equally, the temperature should reach equilibrium negating the possibility of a taper.
the torch was on the bottom of the taper, the thicker part was theoretically warmer anyway ...
@@bobweiram6321 My experiemce of heating treating tapers is that the narrow end tends to heat up faster and then cool off quicker, but in addition the thicker section will be radially stiffer. All this is probably not an issue if the part is at a stable temperature when you fit the tool, but It is a risk.
It's a fact that you can't slide a 20mm pin into a 20mm diam hole.....you need to be approx .02mm undersize to get it in without sticking.........on that basis if you make plug gauges for hole testing you need to make them undersize......how much undersize?........cut and try etc.
👍💯👍.
for the love of god, invest in a handheld bandsaw. I have three of them. hacksaws are for people who never learned to work smarter, not harder.
“Aluminium” 😂
Why's that funny?
Give us an address and we will come together and buy you a horizontal bandsaw
Jezuz man get yourself a portaband already
......SO...
nah .... if u have a slow router maybeee.... and good cooling.. i mean the type of cooling that eats 50% of ur profit margins... otherwise that thing... is a disaster waiting to happen... 1/10 of a mm dilation and that tool flies in heaven hopefully alone... and not with collateral body parts.
That certainly isn't the case on my mill. It's a great tool and it can do some heavy machining. Not sure how you came to that conclusion, maybe different set ups that you are used to using. Cheers
Why you talk like that?
Not my first language
@@artisanmakes diplomatic
@@ΝικόλαοςΖούπαςrude...
Sir, please, stop using the hacksaw, your free time and arm muscles aren't happy about this decision 😭