@@artisanmakes: I was curious about how you achieved that setup with the dividing head. So, you used the good ol' eye-crometer? You should show us how it works next time! :)
I have beed taught that the cutting faces must be offset, to eliminate resonance vibrations. In a case of three cutters, one of them is offset two or three degrees, not 120 equally. And also, you can add a plate behind the inserts to increase, or decrease the angle of attack. I've only made cutting tools for lathes on benchgrinders so far, don't belive me :)
That can be useful on specific tooling with many tips - however it complicates matters as each tooth is now taking a different depth of cut on a 3 tooth cutter - 118, 120 and 122 you have introduced through DoC progression a differential spindle load which can increase spindle bearing wear. Bare in mind I'm not saying you are wrong, just that in 3 tip cutters specifically, it is rarely a good plan
Nice job. One thing I would do is go ahead and grind off the hook that was created by drilling through the back face. Spinning as fast as it does, the flutes will act like a fan and will tend to suck things in where it will be grabbed by those hooks. Whether it's a long chip or an inadvertent shirt sleeve string or shop rag...it's just best not to have anything that will grab like that. Otherwise I like what you did there, nice project.
Yes, I looked at those hooks and was a bit uneasy about them. Now if I am uneasy about something, then that means that it is dangerous and should be dealt with. We shall see what Artisan does or says.
Like you I use a lot of hot rolled steal. I'm a pipe fitter by trade and worked at a fab-shop. Most machinists never use the hot rolled, but we use what we got.
Getting your feeds and speeds correct is very important. Sadly I’ve forgotten almost everything I learned about the subject back in the mists of the last century. But I believe you can find feeds and speeds calculator charts online. Essentially, you need to ensure that the material does not advance beyond what the cutting edges can cope with. There are of course upper and lower spindle speeds, as well as cutter surface speeds for each material. Operating within those tolerances, you set the material advance speed to match. Somehow I seem to recall we used our instincts most of the time. But that was after lots of training, and too many boring hours of standing at the same machine, shift after boring shift. Even though we were making experimental aero engine parts, and there was some variation, plus working in various milling, grinding and turning departments, it was nothing like hobby work. After 6 years I had to escape. Now I have a strange nostalgia for such work, but only for myself, and at my pace. This is a nicely executed tool. Thank you for sharing.
you would be chuffed alright. that is a great tool. It must feel good to have the ability to design and manufacture your own tools. I am very impressed.
This is a really great home shop project, good job! Just a suggestion from a guy who learned on mini mills before moving up to bigger mills. If you make cutters made for larger material removal rates (such as a face mill) it really helps with rigidity if you make it’s shank the spindle shank so that you don’t have to put it in a collet. I know that’s not easy, and not as modular if you move up to a bigger machine in the future, but it really does make a huge difference in the cut. Still great work though!
That's beautiful! Thank you very much for posting! I'm planning to make a carbide tipped cutter myself for an application where a home-made cutter is much better than off-the-shelf alternatives (milling very deep inside a hole) - watching your video has been a big help!
I decent band saw is not that expensive and it is hands down the fastest way to get stock down to near finish size. I can’t imagine having a shop without one.
I like your design, it has got me thinking. That's a stubby shell cutter, I wonder just how stubby it could be made. I have a full size mill and most jobs I get are to big for the mill requiring me to move the part and re-set it up.
Great video, these kind of projects are a fantastic learning experience! Only thing I'm worried about is the stem/arbor to body transition. It seems like you've machined a groove instead of a nice large radius fillet, making it a breaking/failure point which could send the kinda hefty body flying through the shop.
Very Nice and good that you keep things where it is still affordable. You often see people starting a good channel but over time with sponsorships it goes beyond affordable at least for me.👏
I'm a bit leary of face mills at the moment, I've blown the gearbox on my mill twice, both times using face mills, both times took 2 months to get repaired under warranty. I'm sticking with endmills for now.
I think the first inserts would be good for cleaning up a "rugged" piece... maybe something rusted or that has scale on it... stuff that would normally eat a 'sharp' carbide insert. Anyways, great video and project.
You could probably use those other inserts where finishing isn't critical for the surface or try your hand at making a 45 deg lathe tool from them. As for the depth of cut for the non aluminum cutters, a slower feed rate should allow you to take more. A power feed on the table axis' should make it much more do able if you have one. But I'm guessing that's been put on the back burner. Hope this helps.
That's a beautiful facemill, and your mill is absolutely chewing through the material. Loved the gold chips. And as you said (paraphrasing), looks like a bought one! :)
I am not sure which type of hotrolled steel you used, but aluminium inserts and stainless/CrMo/highspeed steel gets tricky. Or that is my experience at least... If I may I would like to encourage you to try the Korloy HA PC9030 inserts. In my opinion they work all the way to ~55Hrc and with non ferrous like plastics. As they are sharp they also work well with less rpm and horsepower. If one goes "all in, full speed" there might be better choises, but with possibility to adapt and slow down they work surprisengly (?) well...
nice work. I would hope to see you move to a carbon or alloy steel for these projects. 4140 is not expensive, and you can heat treat. as much time and effort as goes into this, I would hate to see it wear due to insufficient material properties
Nice job man! I've tried some carbide inserts (S, C and D types) on a small lathe (Sieg C6) and my conclusion is that the inserts for aluminium are really sharp and they leave a very good finish, for more rough work on steel I used inserts for steel with a sharp edge (dedicated for finishing passes). I also tried inserts for steel dedicated for roughing passes but those doesn't behave well on a small lathe (rigidity issues due to higher cutting force).
@@artisanmakes I use CCGX and SCGX types size 09. Negative rake inserts (second letter N) require a good amount of power and rigidity so those aren't suitable for bench top lathes.
I made a similar tools many years ago, the only difference was i turned a number 3 morse taper shank rather that the 20mm diameter. It works and that is the goal of the exercise. Those steel milling inserts looked very iffy, the aluminium ones worked a treat. You should make more tooling, I loved making tools and jigs😊
I wonder how far back you could tilt the inserts to make cutting geometry even sharper, probably until there is just some clearance angle left in the back.
If you want a really good finish on that face mill, most face mills love a low feed and doc with coolant. I'd love to see if that one could get an really good finish.
Take 2 of those inserts out and your electric spindle motor will do more revolutions before the insert re-enters the cut. Multi tooth cutters consume horsepower because the next tooth is close to the one that just consumed the power. You will always cut deeper with a single tooth than multi tooth because of this BUT you will need the rigidity to back it up. You are taking realy light cuts. Its not like your after a mirror finish on heavy roughing cut especially on a smaller mill. Realy nice build though mate. I enjoy watching your videos.
Great work for giving it a try mate. Rigidity and horsepower are going to set the upper limit but good on you for testing your constraints. Once again very nice work and love your video's.
Man, that tool is just beautiful! Congrats! The only thing I hope is that you won’t advance your knowledge to a point at that you’d build your own band saw… 😳😅
its going to take me yrs to get all the stuff showed in this single video to setup the parts. im just getting started but the more i watch of these videos the more i feel like im never going to have all the stuff that is needed to make the stuff i want to try to make. the indexing chuck that u use to hold the parts is something id love to have but it so hard to judge how big the machines u have are. i had always thought the lathe was one of the hobby sized lathes from harbor freight but watching it work makes me thing its either been upgraded alot or is probably something bigger. the stuff i have is the smallest u can get i guess, 7x14 lathe an the mill is a wen 33013 so its pretty much the same as the sieg x2 mills but from my understanding the wen has a bigger bed setup. an from what ive been able to tell from pictures, ive never seen the sieg machine in person the base looks to be alittle bigger on the wen but i could be completely wrong on this cause im just going by pictures an ive been fooled b4.
Absolutely beautiful tool Seems like you will need to upgrade the motor on that mill to see what it can do I am not sure but can you be called a toolmaker since you've made a really nice tool?
on behalf of all the engineers and designers "no we will not design things that can be made, get a 9 axis machining center"
Seriously DFM is overrated. Kidding, we should always think about how to make it.
Good stuff, man! I like that you gave it that cool factor and I especially got a kick out of the compound angle setup on the dividing head.
Cheers man, precision eyeballing like never before :)
@@artisanmakes: I was curious about how you achieved that setup with the dividing head. So, you used the good ol' eye-crometer? You should show us how it works next time!
:)
Set up with a protractor and roughly swept with a dial indicator. The angles weren’t too important
Excellent job, very impressive.
Plus there is the challenge of making your own and the experience you'll gain.
Priceless.
Welcome to the club of tool makers! That one in particular could become a bestseller 😊
So satisfying to build your own tools!
Thats actually a really impressive design challenge! You should definitely heat treat/cold blue it to finish it off!
Nice job 👍. You will be getting really good at vacuuming as a bonus ! These things are just the messiest tool in the workshop.
I have beed taught that the cutting faces must be offset, to eliminate resonance vibrations. In a case of three cutters, one of them is offset two or three degrees, not 120 equally. And also, you can add a plate behind the inserts to increase, or decrease the angle of attack. I've only made cutting tools for lathes on benchgrinders so far, don't belive me :)
That can be useful on specific tooling with many tips - however it complicates matters as each tooth is now taking a different depth of cut on a 3 tooth cutter - 118, 120 and 122 you have introduced through DoC progression a differential spindle load which can increase spindle bearing wear.
Bare in mind I'm not saying you are wrong, just that in 3 tip cutters specifically, it is rarely a good plan
Nice job. One thing I would do is go ahead and grind off the hook that was created by drilling through the back face. Spinning as fast as it does, the flutes will act like a fan and will tend to suck things in where it will be grabbed by those hooks. Whether it's a long chip or an inadvertent shirt sleeve string or shop rag...it's just best not to have anything that will grab like that. Otherwise I like what you did there, nice project.
Yes, I looked at those hooks and was a bit uneasy about them. Now if I am uneasy about something, then that means that it is dangerous and should be dealt with. We shall see what Artisan does or says.
We need a "Tell you what" counter.
I think I’ve been watching too much king of the hill recently:)
@@artisanmakes Tell you what, that's not a bad idea.
Damn it Bobby
There was definitely a hint of a hwhat in there
Like you I use a lot of hot rolled steal. I'm a pipe fitter by trade and worked at a fab-shop. Most machinists never use the hot rolled, but we use what we got.
Getting your feeds and speeds correct is very important.
Sadly I’ve forgotten almost everything I learned about the subject back in the mists of the last century. But I believe you can find feeds and speeds calculator charts online.
Essentially, you need to ensure that the material does not advance beyond what the cutting edges can cope with. There are of course upper and lower spindle speeds, as well as cutter surface speeds for each material. Operating within those tolerances, you set the material advance speed to match.
Somehow I seem to recall we used our instincts most of the time. But that was after lots of training, and too many boring hours of standing at the same machine, shift after boring shift.
Even though we were making experimental aero engine parts, and there was some variation, plus working in various milling, grinding and turning departments, it was nothing like hobby work. After 6 years I had to escape. Now I have a strange nostalgia for such work, but only for myself, and at my pace.
This is a nicely executed tool. Thank you for sharing.
I tell you what... that's a pretty impressive tool you made there with the lathe and mill that you have.
Seriously, we'll done!
Very excellent and practical. Thank you❤️👍🙏
Congratulations, that's a great result!
Good project. Good editing and good narration.
Love your videos, I know nothing about machining or mills but I can't stop watching
Careful, it's addictive and before you know it you will be wanting your own workshop set up.
@@markfryer9880 I can feel my need to spend money taking over
Love the cross slide power feed :)
you would be chuffed alright. that is a great tool. It must feel good to have the ability to design and manufacture your own tools. I am very impressed.
Everytime you say "I tell you what", I envision Hank Hill from King of the Hill :)
I'm glad your design worked for you!
Bravo! 😊
This is a really great home shop project, good job! Just a suggestion from a guy who learned on mini mills before moving up to bigger mills. If you make cutters made for larger material removal rates (such as a face mill) it really helps with rigidity if you make it’s shank the spindle shank so that you don’t have to put it in a collet. I know that’s not easy, and not as modular if you move up to a bigger machine in the future, but it really does make a huge difference in the cut. Still great work though!
Gday, you have nailed it, bloody awesome build, the mill handles it with no problems at all, very impressive mate, cheers
That's cool as heck. You've really got these hobby machines dialed in!
Thanks for sharing this experience. That gives me the idea to try myself.
You have absolutely outdone yourself this time. That part looks and works fabulously. Nice job!
A second version could include a variable index geometry to help break up harmonics!
Great job on this tool!
That's beautiful! Thank you very much for posting!
I'm planning to make a carbide tipped cutter myself for an application where a home-made cutter is much better than off-the-shelf alternatives (milling very deep inside a hole) - watching your video has been a big help!
Nice shell mill and nice video. I liked the Solidworks part also.
Very interesting project and nice results.
Sharp inserts like that work well on titanium as well. A real bonus for set ups that are not rigid
Look great, performs great, awesome design and build 👍
Great design and build. Job well done 👍
With your pretty meager setup, your results are very impressive. Great looking tool.
Very nicely done! You made it seem simple.
The aluminum inserts are definitely helping the lower powered machine thanks to the high cut angles.
man you did a good job on this project. real good job.
This tool came out very amezing! Godd job!
You did I hell of a job on that great work
Wow looks really good, store quality 👌
I decent band saw is not that expensive and it is hands down the fastest way to get stock down to near finish size. I can’t imagine having a shop without one.
Cheers, great project. Thanks for sharing.
I like your design, it has got me thinking. That's a stubby shell cutter, I wonder just how stubby it could be made. I have a full size mill and most jobs I get are to big for the mill requiring me to move the part and re-set it up.
Great build, great design and awesome video.
Thanks for sharing.
6:36 disposable rag exactly the one we had at home.
Great video, these kind of projects are a fantastic learning experience!
Only thing I'm worried about is the stem/arbor to body transition. It seems like you've machined a groove instead of a nice large radius fillet, making it a breaking/failure point which could send the kinda hefty body flying through the shop.
I'm impressed!!
Before you used it, you really should've set it for rebuild parameters. Nice workmanship! Great hands on learning!
Let's face the fact that this is a very cool project 😎
Very Nice and good that you keep things where it is still affordable. You often see people starting a good channel but over time with sponsorships it goes beyond affordable at least for me.👏
I'm a bit leary of face mills at the moment, I've blown the gearbox on my mill twice, both times using face mills, both times took 2 months to get repaired under warranty. I'm sticking with endmills for now.
Great stuff, one small tip, you should always feed against the fast jaw, that gives maximum rigidity. Cheers.
Lots of geometry there. Well done.
Fantastic tool you will get a lot of use out of it thanks for sharing cheers.
I'll tell you what: that's some pretty impressive chips! 😁
Good work as usual. We shared this video on our homemade tools forum this week 😎
A really nice job . It seems it is the way to go since the stuff being sold in the stores are just not up to the task .
Great job on this. I admit I had my doubts in the beginning of the video. But I was very impressed with how it turned out.
Agreed - he's done a stellar job and the results speak for themselves. Loved watching the facemill develop from the blank bar of steel.
"Just because it looks like it can be made does not mean it actually can." should be a plaque on every engineer's workplace.
If only
Really well done. A nice new tool. Have a great weekend.
As good as always!
Can You please share the angles it will be a great tool for my work shop.
I think the first inserts would be good for cleaning up a "rugged" piece... maybe something rusted or that has scale on it... stuff that would normally eat a 'sharp' carbide insert.
Anyways, great video and project.
Nice work definitely put a gun blue on it
Have you considered making the R8 shank as part of the tool? It may help with rigidity and concentricity
I tell ya what, that's a nice looking face mill
The high rake aluminium inserts do tend to work well in the smaller lower horsepower machines.
They are surprisingly durable too. Better than I expected when using them on steel.
Now this was awesome! The results are incredible and for machines like yours, as you said, its really a game changer!
You could probably use those other inserts where finishing isn't critical for the surface or try your hand at making a 45 deg lathe tool from them. As for the depth of cut for the non aluminum cutters, a slower feed rate should allow you to take more. A power feed on the table axis' should make it much more do able if you have one. But I'm guessing that's been put on the back burner.
Hope this helps.
Well, I'll tell you what! That looks pretty good :)
Hank Hill approves.
Outstanding! Love the compact single piece design 🙂
That's a beautiful facemill, and your mill is absolutely chewing through the material. Loved the gold chips. And as you said (paraphrasing), looks like a bought one! :)
You could make an identical tool and have the tougher inserts for roughing and the better ones for finnishing.
Nice work man
Really cool looking tool! Thanks for sharing, I really enjoyed :)
Those high rake inserts are what came with with my Tormach superfly fly cutter
I am not sure which type of hotrolled steel you used, but aluminium inserts and stainless/CrMo/highspeed steel gets tricky. Or that is my experience at least...
If I may I would like to encourage you to try the Korloy HA PC9030 inserts. In my opinion they work all the way to ~55Hrc and with non ferrous like plastics. As they are sharp they also work well with less rpm and horsepower. If one goes "all in, full speed" there might be better choises, but with possibility to adapt and slow down they work surprisengly (?) well...
nice work. I would hope to see you move to a carbon or alloy steel for these projects. 4140 is not expensive, and you can heat treat. as much time and effort as goes into this, I would hate to see it wear due to insufficient material properties
Well done! 👍
Nice job man! I've tried some carbide inserts (S, C and D types) on a small lathe (Sieg C6) and my conclusion is that the inserts for aluminium are really sharp and they leave a very good finish, for more rough work on steel I used inserts for steel with a sharp edge (dedicated for finishing passes). I also tried inserts for steel dedicated for roughing passes but those doesn't behave well on a small lathe (rigidity issues due to higher cutting force).
Neat, I’ve found d shaped inserts work the best, whether they be The generic dcmt or sharper DCGT. Never had too much luck with cnmg or similar
@@artisanmakes I use CCGX and SCGX types size 09. Negative rake inserts (second letter N) require a good amount of power and rigidity so those aren't suitable for bench top lathes.
I tell you what, that's a pretty nifty face mill!! LOL
Year a very interesting video and a very advanced project you’ve realised. Well done! Please continue with content like that.
I made a similar tools many years ago, the only difference was i turned a number 3 morse taper shank rather that the 20mm diameter. It works and that is the goal of the exercise. Those steel milling inserts looked very iffy, the aluminium ones worked a treat. You should make more tooling, I loved making tools and jigs😊
Making tooling is for sure a lot of fun
very good job. Greetings from Argentina 🇦🇷👍
Fair play mate good design and good execution. It must be so satisfying to be able to make your own tooling to the specs that you want.
Awesome project!
I wonder how far back you could tilt the inserts to make cutting geometry even sharper, probably until there is just some clearance angle left in the back.
Very impressive Great job.
If you want a really good finish on that face mill, most face mills love a low feed and doc with coolant. I'd love to see if that one could get an really good finish.
Top Job, Sir 👌
Отличная работа!
Take 2 of those inserts out and your electric spindle motor will do more revolutions before the insert re-enters the cut. Multi tooth cutters consume horsepower because the next tooth is close to the one that just consumed the power. You will always cut deeper with a single tooth than multi tooth because of this BUT you will need the rigidity to back it up. You are taking realy light cuts. Its not like your after a mirror finish on heavy roughing cut especially on a smaller mill. Realy nice build though mate. I enjoy watching your videos.
I’m at the workshop so I’ll give it a go
Just to update didn’t seem to be able to take a much deeper depth of cut before I got chatter. Rigidity holding it back
Great work for giving it a try mate. Rigidity and horsepower are going to set the upper limit but good on you for testing your constraints. Once again very nice work and love your video's.
No worries, always happy to give it a go. Cheers
Nice job!👍😎
Awesome build.
Very impressive.
Brilliant..... might just make one of those... 🙂
Man, that tool is just beautiful! Congrats!
The only thing I hope is that you won’t advance your knowledge to a point at that you’d build your own band saw… 😳😅
It looks like there is a nice 45degree angle on the side how would it work as a chanfer mill also?
its going to take me yrs to get all the stuff showed in this single video to setup the parts. im just getting started but the more i watch of these videos the more i feel like im never going to have all the stuff that is needed to make the stuff i want to try to make. the indexing chuck that u use to hold the parts is something id love to have but it so hard to judge how big the machines u have are. i had always thought the lathe was one of the hobby sized lathes from harbor freight but watching it work makes me thing its either been upgraded alot or is probably something bigger. the stuff i have is the smallest u can get i guess, 7x14 lathe an the mill is a wen 33013 so its pretty much the same as the sieg x2 mills but from my understanding the wen has a bigger bed setup. an from what ive been able to tell from pictures, ive never seen the sieg machine in person the base looks to be alittle bigger on the wen but i could be completely wrong on this cause im just going by pictures an ive been fooled b4.
Absolutely beautiful tool
Seems like you will need to upgrade the motor on that mill to see what it can do
I am not sure but can you be called a toolmaker since you've made a really nice tool?
Daniel Jankovych that is what my sister-in-law said to me last night!!