Cheers, sometimes with this hobby you need to get creative if you aren't able to readably buy tool steel. These are a good source of carbon steel, as long as you don't need to be too exact on its mechanical properties. Cheers
@@artisanmakes That's a great point. About a year ago one of the American hobbyists went to a wrecking yard and went through all the materials you can get as scrap from old cars. He said its hard finding out exactly what the actual metals are but in general things like sway bars, tie rods, drive shafts are all made from decent quality materials or they simply don't last. For straight cast iron that has been de-stressed by time some of the old engine blocks must be Ok. For the guys who do their own casting things like engine blocks, heads, gearbox cases, etc. should be a good supply of raw material as well. Go watch some episodes of "Forged in Fire" for some of what they do with scrap.
Another note: for your clamp, if you put the bolt in the middle of the clamp as well as cut an angle on the flat you had furthest away from the insert. That way it will “clamp down more and put more pressure on the insert, ensuring less rattling. This is just a guess but I have a feeling this would work much better. Either way, great video.
I once broke a 4mm tap and I "drilled it out" with a 3mm carbide end mill on the drill press(not recommended) but it worked and I saved my part that way
seeing you hack saw 30mm round by hand gave me shivers, clearly this guy doesn't care about how long something takes ahahaha. As my old machinist mentor would say "yeah you're gonna use a hacksaw, it builds character". On the note about the fly cutter I did always think it was odd you where using that insert holder, I thought to myself "that's an odd duck but I guess it works". I'd highly recommend quality name brand tool holders. I bought Chinese ones they're ok but they went and used a medium carbon high alloy steel and never heated the bloody things, so they're out of a steel that can become a fair bit harder when quenched but didn't do it. I think it's a slightly higher carbon content high alloy steel, think like 4140 but a bit more carbon, I followed procedures for hardening that general type of steel and it worked well.
I manually hacksaw a 51mm 304 stainless once because the power hacksaw is down.. it's worth the exercise, but won't do again hehe.. replace your saw blades when gonna do that.. makes it faster and easier even if a bit..
@@adolfemmanuelesparas3922 Oh god, I mean my bandsaw is not exactly powerful and took a couple minutes to get through 30mm 304 with a brand new M42 blade so I don't wanna think how long doing 2 inches by hand would be, kudos on the chatactor level up.
Hardness has basically no effect on the elastic modulus (rigidity) of steels. This includes carbon steels, alloy steels and tool steels. You're going to be around 30000ksi (210GPa) regardless of the steel alloy or its hardness. Stainless steels and others with very high alloy % (maraging etc) will vary slightly, with stainless usually being slightly below 210GPa and high nickel alloys being slightly above.
I might not have been clear with the reason for doing this. I don't know if you could see it in the video, but the unhardened tcmt tool holders have been slightly deformed around where the under cutting edge is. This won't change Young modulus, but it should increase the yeild strength and give me some more head room before anything permanently deforms. Cheers
Little tip for the slot: use a cutter smaller than the width of your slot. When you cut on both sides of the cutter it will pull towards the face that is being climb milled and can result in your face not being straight. Learnt this the hard way in school. Most manual mills have some backlash and unless it’s super rigid and the cutter is quite short, this will almost always happen.
If you fancy an alternative way to produce a great surface finish on bigger work pieces and you like new toys, then buy a small (8-10 inch) shaper. They are cheap compared to a lathe or mill, my 8 inch Boxford only cost $350 NZ, my Alba 10 inch cost $450 (They are also addictive!!). It's great fun learning how use a shaper and it's another excuse to make lots of accessories! Cheers Paul in NZ
Yeah, pretty much every. Cap hear screw is a 12.9 grade. Getting ready to replace all the torx screws I have with them. It's anyones guess what they are made from. Cheers
@@artisanmakes who know what they are made of since it's a tensile strength spec and not a specific alloy, I assume whatever is cheapest at any given point. That said I've seen a few references to 4140, 4340, and 5140 amongst others for grade 8/class 12.9. But the nice thing is you can get them at most hardware stores for not a ton of money so if you need to make something in a pinch and aren't super worried about exactly which alloy it is they can come in super handy.
Cheers, I was referring to the cheapo torx screws that came with the import tool holders. I've had a few shear over the past few years. I'll probably have to order them since my local hardware store doesn't stock small torx bits. Cheers
Gotcha, I was talking more about making tools and such. Here I can get a grade 8 three quarter by five inch (19x127mm) bolt for a few bucks a piece. They are around 35-40 HRC so plenty easy to machine as is. And yes it should go without saying that replacing ungraded fasteners is always a good idea.
great build as always. surprised to see you haven't modified your die filer to take a saw blade. must be getting a full work out cutting stock by hand .
Either a over arm support like a jig saw or a easier way would be a chuck from a ripsaw, they can hold straight with out being tentioned but it'd cut on the upstroke. Perhaps a project for another video.
Can you please explain why the tool is tilted at an angle, if it was flat to the bed the insert edge would still be the lowest point. I think cutting the tool on an angle is a leftover idea for when there were flat HSS toolbits. With the insert protruding beyond the toolholder body on insert type tool you are using, is this angle required?
Great video as always, Mr. Artisan. One suggestion - I've been recently using specific aluminium grade carbide inserts in the lathe(oddly enough - they work even better for steel, as tested by Quinn of BlondiHacks). They're a little bit more expensive than the standard ones, but might result in an even nicer finish. Just a thought.
Glad to hear it, I tested some aluminium inserts a long time ago, they work really well, though I did run into issues with the edges chipping easily. The lathe is a lot more rigid than it was and I am really looking forward to testing them again. Cheers
So one issue I see is that depending on the steel alloy, it might air harden! I don’t think this is terribly likely here, but I do think normalizing might need to happen more slowly than from air cooling. At least with the chisel hunk
Sorry, if I'm wrong but did you use the files (09:50) in the wrong order? First test 65 and then 60 and down to th red one. It least this is what my supplier told me, if I'm correct.
You are correct, the instruction on mine says the same, however since I was testing an unhardened piece of CRV I made an assumption that it would probably be softer than 40 HRC. Lets me skip all the other files. Cheers.
They are a fantastic buy, however I am having to remachine a lot of my tooling to fit them since the clamping range is so small. It is a lot more rigid, and the run out is improved over the er collet chuck I was using. Ill have a video on the subject soon. Cheers
In my experience, the alloy will have varying results, but overall using a high rake aluminum type insert is worth every penny. I believe you will not be disappointed. Note, in an interrupted cut situation, do not use those inserts on steel or similar.
I was using gummy 6063 and aside from HSS, I could not get a reasonable finish. Using high rpm, high rake aluminum specific inserts, and kerosene, I was achieving close to mirror finish. Not mirror, but much better than satin.
This is after many experiments and many hours of investigation using a loupe, various cutting fluids - 3 aluminum specific fluids, cuttings charts from the 1950's, up through modern cnc charts, help from many friends. 6063 is just terrible to work with. I now understand that there are actually 6063 specific inserts that I should have been using. However, all that effort culminated in my cutting 6061 and other more machinable alloys with mirror like finishes without even really trying.
And all that, why not to stick with HSS? I'm sure for very similar or same reasons that you don't use HSS. It took me maybe four months to finally get the right shape and since aluminum is so abrasive, it's a constant battle to keep it sharp and cutting properly. I just don't have the tooling, grinders, Etc to be able to maintain that without a lot of effort. The cost of inserts, even specialty aluminum inserts is just so low today. Sub $0.50USD each in some cases, it just isn't worth my time nor effort. So instead, I use inserts because my goal is not to make a thing to make a thing to make a thing, my goal is to just finally make the last thing and enjoy myself in my hobby.
@@ironhead65 I always use HSS with sharp point and high rake on aluminium of all grades, with excellent finish. Aluminium likes light cutting force with a very sharp tool. And sharpening the HSS point really only takes 30 seconds by hand on a bench grinder, it's an easy process. To my thinking the only real benefit of using inserts is high volume production where you just swap inserts after every X number of parts made. For hobby stuff a hand sharpened HSS point is king of aluminium tools...
@@wizrom3046 assuming you have the stones and bench grinder to do as you say and assuming you can create the shape you want. If either of those are not true, you end up in a predicament.
@@mealex303 yeah the old story goes the 3 best swordsmen were invited to a banquet to display their skills to the emperor. The third best cut a fly in half, the second best cut off a flys wings and the best seemed to miss but the fly seemed to be in terrible pain. A courtesan said benignly that it was a difficult task. He replied oh no my dear lady that fly will never reproduce.
@@artisanmakes thank you man for giving me an inspiration for making a fly cutter.. it's so simple that it makes me stupid for not thinking about it sooner! Cheers mate!
я тоже использую полноразмерные цанги MT3 во фрезерном станке, намного удобнее, чем цанговый патрон типа ER с маленькой цангой. столько трудов стоило изготовление державки под сменную пластинку... погибло даже одно зубило. почему не используешь прутки 12*12мм? в крайнем случае можно было отфрезеровать из цилиндрического прутка диаметром 13+ квадрат... прутковые заготовки у тебя же есть. Правильно сделал, что выполнил паз на державке под фиксирующие винты, так надежнее. в русскоязычном ютубе есть видео, в котором рассказывается о модуле упругости сталей, так вот - известно, что жесткость стали не зависит от сорта и от термообработки. другими словами - сырая державка и закаленная державка имеют одинаковый модуль упругости = жесткость на кручение и изгиб. То, что ты закалил ее до твердости HRC 50 никак не изменило ее свойства на изгиб. Невероятно кажется, но это так.
Put it simply it's what I had on hand. I know Knife Makers can really go to town on the nuances of different cooling rates of different oils, but I don't think it is particularly crucial here. Cheers
For tempering I just did it in the regular kitchen oven. I think for small parts it should be fine, just make sure you use a proper thermometer to set the temperature. For bigger parts id have to use my friends commercial heat treating oven. Cheers
This will be great information for when I get a mill. Trying to get a lathe first. Watching videos to learn. Good content. I've seen a couple of your videos and think I'll sub, I like what I've seen. I was reading some of the comments, I see that you are from the Australian part of Canada. Do you watch Max Grant? I love his channel.
That has at the end is likely helping by reducing vibration as the interruption of the cut occurs. Of course can't say for sure, but it makes sense especially since if you think about it it's a big spring right? That would most probably dampen the vibration. That's usually one of the reasons to use an alloy like zamak or cast-iron where it's very anti-vibration. Not suggesting it for this case, just saying in general, if vibration is an issue, those materials are very good at stamping out vibration.
Possibly, I'm not sure sure if it makes any noticeable difference. I'm sure I gain more from the better clamping method than I loose from the increased mass. Cheers
Great video !
Would never have thought of using a cheap chisel as a source of material !
Cheers, sometimes with this hobby you need to get creative if you aren't able to readably buy tool steel. These are a good source of carbon steel, as long as you don't need to be too exact on its mechanical properties. Cheers
@@artisanmakes That's a great point.
About a year ago one of the American hobbyists went to a wrecking yard and went through all the materials you can get as scrap from old cars.
He said its hard finding out exactly what the actual metals are but in general things like sway bars, tie rods, drive shafts are all made from decent quality materials or they simply don't last.
For straight cast iron that has been de-stressed by time some of the old engine blocks must be Ok.
For the guys who do their own casting things like engine blocks, heads, gearbox cases, etc. should be a good supply of raw material as well. Go watch some episodes of "Forged in Fire" for some of what they do with scrap.
Another note: for your clamp, if you put the bolt in the middle of the clamp as well as cut an angle on the flat you had furthest away from the insert. That way it will “clamp down more and put more pressure on the insert, ensuring less rattling. This is just a guess but I have a feeling this would work much better. Either way, great video.
Fun coincidence! I just finished my build this week.
I once broke a 4mm tap and I "drilled it out" with a 3mm carbide end mill on the drill press(not recommended) but it worked and I saved my part that way
I'm of the school if thinking if it work it works. :)
seeing you hack saw 30mm round by hand gave me shivers, clearly this guy doesn't care about how long something takes ahahaha. As my old machinist mentor would say "yeah you're gonna use a hacksaw, it builds character". On the note about the fly cutter I did always think it was odd you where using that insert holder, I thought to myself "that's an odd duck but I guess it works". I'd highly recommend quality name brand tool holders. I bought Chinese ones they're ok but they went and used a medium carbon high alloy steel and never heated the bloody things, so they're out of a steel that can become a fair bit harder when quenched but didn't do it. I think it's a slightly higher carbon content high alloy steel, think like 4140 but a bit more carbon, I followed procedures for hardening that general type of steel and it worked well.
I manually hacksaw a 51mm 304 stainless once because the power hacksaw is down.. it's worth the exercise, but won't do again hehe.. replace your saw blades when gonna do that.. makes it faster and easier even if a bit..
@@adolfemmanuelesparas3922 Oh god, I mean my bandsaw is not exactly powerful and took a couple minutes to get through 30mm 304 with a brand new M42 blade so I don't wanna think how long doing 2 inches by hand would be, kudos on the chatactor level up.
Hardness has basically no effect on the elastic modulus (rigidity) of steels. This includes carbon steels, alloy steels and tool steels. You're going to be around 30000ksi (210GPa) regardless of the steel alloy or its hardness. Stainless steels and others with very high alloy % (maraging etc) will vary slightly, with stainless usually being slightly below 210GPa and high nickel alloys being slightly above.
I might not have been clear with the reason for doing this. I don't know if you could see it in the video, but the unhardened tcmt tool holders have been slightly deformed around where the under cutting edge is. This won't change Young modulus, but it should increase the yeild strength and give me some more head room before anything permanently deforms. Cheers
Little tip for the slot: use a cutter smaller than the width of your slot. When you cut on both sides of the cutter it will pull towards the face that is being climb milled and can result in your face not being straight. Learnt this the hard way in school. Most manual mills have some backlash and unless it’s super rigid and the cutter is quite short, this will almost always happen.
Awesome build, I would stole it but first I need to get a lathe and a mill!
Really enjoying your videos. Thank you.
If you fancy an alternative way to produce a great surface finish on bigger work pieces and you like new toys, then buy a small (8-10 inch) shaper. They are cheap compared to a lathe or mill, my 8 inch Boxford only cost $350 NZ, my Alba 10 inch cost $450 (They are also addictive!!). It's great fun learning how use a shaper and it's another excuse to make lots of accessories!
Cheers Paul in NZ
I liked all the information you shared thank you.
Nice tool, thanks for sharing your video
Great fly cutter bro! Love your content as always.
Thankyou, glad you enjoyed the video
Interesting project as always. 👍
Nice work mate 👍 gonna have to look for some chisels now...
Great video
Great video, keep'um coming.
me suscribo saludos desde argentina muy bueno tu trabajo
Graded fasteners are a readily available source for medium carbon and alloy steels in smallish sizes.
Yup metric 12.9 has very good tensile strength
Yeah, pretty much every. Cap hear screw is a 12.9 grade. Getting ready to replace all the torx screws I have with them. It's anyones guess what they are made from. Cheers
@@artisanmakes who know what they are made of since it's a tensile strength spec and not a specific alloy, I assume whatever is cheapest at any given point. That said I've seen a few references to 4140, 4340, and 5140 amongst others for grade 8/class 12.9. But the nice thing is you can get them at most hardware stores for not a ton of money so if you need to make something in a pinch and aren't super worried about exactly which alloy it is they can come in super handy.
Cheers, I was referring to the cheapo torx screws that came with the import tool holders. I've had a few shear over the past few years. I'll probably have to order them since my local hardware store doesn't stock small torx bits. Cheers
Gotcha, I was talking more about making tools and such. Here I can get a grade 8 three quarter by five inch (19x127mm) bolt for a few bucks a piece. They are around 35-40 HRC so plenty easy to machine as is. And yes it should go without saying that replacing ungraded fasteners is always a good idea.
great build as always. surprised to see you haven't modified your die filer to take a saw blade. must be getting a full work out cutting stock by hand .
Cheers, probably would.need an over arm support of some sort to do that. And it's not a bad work out :)
Either a over arm support like a jig saw or a easier way would be a chuck from a ripsaw, they can hold straight with out being tentioned but it'd cut on the upstroke. Perhaps a project for another video.
Can you please explain why the tool is tilted at an angle, if it was flat to the bed the insert edge would still be the lowest point. I think cutting the tool on an angle is a leftover idea for when there were flat HSS toolbits. With the insert protruding beyond the toolholder body on insert type tool you are using, is this angle required?
Fantastic tool! Great video 👍
Cheers, thankyou
Great video as always, Mr. Artisan.
One suggestion - I've been recently using specific aluminium grade carbide inserts in the lathe(oddly enough - they work even better for steel, as tested by Quinn of BlondiHacks). They're a little bit more expensive than the standard ones, but might result in an even nicer finish. Just a thought.
Glad to hear it, I tested some aluminium inserts a long time ago, they work really well, though I did run into issues with the edges chipping easily. The lathe is a lot more rigid than it was and I am really looking forward to testing them again. Cheers
So one issue I see is that depending on the steel alloy, it might air harden! I don’t think this is terribly likely here, but I do think normalizing might need to happen more slowly than from air cooling. At least with the chisel hunk
Sorry, if I'm wrong but did you use the files (09:50) in the wrong order?
First test 65 and then 60 and down to th red one.
It least this is what my supplier told me, if I'm correct.
You are correct, the instruction on mine says the same, however since I was testing an unhardened piece of CRV I made an assumption that it would probably be softer than 40 HRC. Lets me skip all the other files. Cheers.
nice work
Where do you get materials in Australia?
Nice work, how to the swap to Morse Taper collets go?
They are a fantastic buy, however I am having to remachine a lot of my tooling to fit them since the clamping range is so small. It is a lot more rigid, and the run out is improved over the er collet chuck I was using. Ill have a video on the subject soon. Cheers
This New Tony
In my experience, the alloy will have varying results, but overall using a high rake aluminum type insert is worth every penny. I believe you will not be disappointed. Note, in an interrupted cut situation, do not use those inserts on steel or similar.
I was using gummy 6063 and aside from HSS, I could not get a reasonable finish. Using high rpm, high rake aluminum specific inserts, and kerosene, I was achieving close to mirror finish. Not mirror, but much better than satin.
This is after many experiments and many hours of investigation using a loupe, various cutting fluids - 3 aluminum specific fluids, cuttings charts from the 1950's, up through modern cnc charts, help from many friends. 6063 is just terrible to work with. I now understand that there are actually 6063 specific inserts that I should have been using. However, all that effort culminated in my cutting 6061 and other more machinable alloys with mirror like finishes without even really trying.
And all that, why not to stick with HSS? I'm sure for very similar or same reasons that you don't use HSS. It took me maybe four months to finally get the right shape and since aluminum is so abrasive, it's a constant battle to keep it sharp and cutting properly. I just don't have the tooling, grinders, Etc to be able to maintain that without a lot of effort. The cost of inserts, even specialty aluminum inserts is just so low today. Sub $0.50USD each in some cases, it just isn't worth my time nor effort. So instead, I use inserts because my goal is not to make a thing to make a thing to make a thing, my goal is to just finally make the last thing and enjoy myself in my hobby.
@@ironhead65 I always use HSS with sharp point and high rake on aluminium of all grades, with excellent finish. Aluminium likes light cutting force with a very sharp tool.
And sharpening the HSS point really only takes 30 seconds by hand on a bench grinder, it's an easy process.
To my thinking the only real benefit of using inserts is high volume production where you just swap inserts after every X number of parts made.
For hobby stuff a hand sharpened HSS point is king of aluminium tools...
@@wizrom3046 assuming you have the stones and bench grinder to do as you say and assuming you can create the shape you want. If either of those are not true, you end up in a predicament.
I think you should re temper to Rc 45 ish for better toughness.
Maybe, but so far it has held up remarkably well. Cheers
Best fly cutter I've ever seen was more....umm..well.. Katana shaped! 😂😂
That old story of the 3 swordsmen and the flies?
@@charlesgargotta23 no when a samurai cuts one in half lol
@@mealex303 yeah the old story goes the 3 best swordsmen were invited to a banquet to display their skills to the emperor. The third best cut a fly in half, the second best cut off a flys wings and the best seemed to miss but the fly seemed to be in terrible pain. A courtesan said benignly that it was a difficult task. He replied oh no my dear lady that fly will never reproduce.
Dear Mr.Artisan . Im so excited where can i get something same hardness ( for hrc) chekker kit… it would be so usefull for me but i cant find nowhere…
I was kindly given these for my birthday, but there are some on ebay from Japan. Just search harness file test files. Cheers
@@artisanmakes Thanks for Your answer!!☺️🤩
Wow im early. Thanks for your great content. Keep it up!
thanks again.
Hello, umm what angle does he do the holder? Thanks for answering!
It's roughly 8 degrees
@@artisanmakes thank you man for giving me an inspiration for making a fly cutter.. it's so simple that it makes me stupid for not thinking about it sooner! Cheers mate!
No worries, best of luck
я тоже использую полноразмерные цанги MT3 во фрезерном станке, намного удобнее, чем цанговый патрон типа ER с маленькой цангой. столько трудов стоило изготовление державки под сменную пластинку... погибло даже одно зубило. почему не используешь прутки 12*12мм? в крайнем случае можно было отфрезеровать из цилиндрического прутка диаметром 13+ квадрат... прутковые заготовки у тебя же есть. Правильно сделал, что выполнил паз на державке под фиксирующие винты, так надежнее.
в русскоязычном ютубе есть видео, в котором рассказывается о модуле упругости сталей, так вот - известно, что жесткость стали не зависит от сорта и от термообработки. другими словами - сырая державка и закаленная державка имеют одинаковый модуль упругости = жесткость на кручение и изгиб. То, что ты закалил ее до твердости HRC 50 никак не изменило ее свойства на изгиб. Невероятно кажется, но это так.
"I heated the part to red and soaked it at that temperature" had me dead lmao
To be fair that is the name of the process :)
so when are going build a 2x72 belt grinder
Why do you use linseed oil for quenching?
Put it simply it's what I had on hand. I know Knife Makers can really go to town on the nuances of different cooling rates of different oils, but I don't think it is particularly crucial here. Cheers
Where's the place to go when looking for heat treating ovens in australia?
For tempering I just did it in the regular kitchen oven. I think for small parts it should be fine, just make sure you use a proper thermometer to set the temperature. For bigger parts id have to use my friends commercial heat treating oven. Cheers
Check art supply houses, you can get a variety of small electric kilns, usually come with heat controllers too.
*forgets the M04 for my last threadmill while my supplier is closed for summer*
This will be great information for when I get a mill. Trying to get a lathe first. Watching videos to learn. Good content. I've seen a couple of your videos and think I'll sub, I like what I've seen. I was reading some of the comments, I see that you are from the Australian part of Canada. Do you watch Max Grant? I love his channel.
Thankyou, I have seen a few of his videos, making his own workshop is a cool video series. Cheers
👍
Now get your old fly cutter, stick it in the vice and cut your slot again on the opposite angle
The last thing i want flying at me is a star. :-) the lathe tool is somewhat below that on the list.
As an Australian why are you using ancient imperial
Been working on a few American machines recently, force of habit :)
Very unusual accent, which part of Canada are you from? 😉
He is from Australia
The Australian part of Canada.. eh :)
Get it right, it's "Canadia".
Australians come from Australia, Cambodians come from Cambodia, Canadians come from Canadia. 😋
Just a shame you had to add the extra mass of the clamp at the end. Not tempted to drill and tap the opposite end to be able to add a counter-weight?
That has at the end is likely helping by reducing vibration as the interruption of the cut occurs. Of course can't say for sure, but it makes sense especially since if you think about it it's a big spring right? That would most probably dampen the vibration. That's usually one of the reasons to use an alloy like zamak or cast-iron where it's very anti-vibration. Not suggesting it for this case, just saying in general, if vibration is an issue, those materials are very good at stamping out vibration.
Possibly, I'm not sure sure if it makes any noticeable difference. I'm sure I gain more from the better clamping method than I loose from the increased mass. Cheers
...no worries - as long as you use a "Dr. Pepper" can - you can't go wrong!!
If the lathe tool holder flies out of the fly cutter it will probably be the last thing that flies at you...
Brotha get yourself a real lathe, you deserve it
18mm at most minus 1 thousand of inch is not proper measurement :D
Hehe yeah, been working with a few imperial parts recently. Force of habit.
Ho1
Ples make facemill
Interesting suggestion. Might be possible with the dividing head. Thankyou
Rather poiintless, really....
These are one of the most useful milling tools
Throw away that hacksaw and use an angle grinder
stop cutting stock by hand!
If your spindle bore isn't big enough, you have to chop it up somehow