I totally get all the benefits, but I definitely fall into that category of not being willing to give up the sound over all of that. Exceptional video on explaining this in detail so clearly! Keep up the awesome work Tanner!
I here you, I would have trouble giving up the ULH or the TMIC it's too iconic for me. Maybe when the time comes that I "need" them my mind will change. Really want to do the cylinder cooling mod though!
As much as I love the "Subie rumble" but when I got my STI with a twin scroll turbo, I was hella disappointed. But the way the boost comes on is way more smooth. With the Invidia exhaust I have (turbo back) the sound is pretty sweet and sounds like a rally car on a cold start. After the mods and a dyno tune, I am happy to sacrifice the "rumble" for a better drive. But I totally understand why one would want have UEL headers.
Those that know exhaust and music, know that frequency reverberation, the kind that gives you goosebumps, is found in the design, material and length of the exhaust. Equal length with crossover after a high flow catalytic converter make perfect resonance.
The Helmholtz resonance formula explains how a rigid cavity of static volume can design the perfect resonance. Welds matter, material matters, down to the hardware used to hold everything together. The ear knows.
Loving your videos. I have an 09 Wrx, first subie, but I definitely appreciate someone that knows and loves what they talk about and is accurate with the info that is presented. I can tell you take a considerable amount of time out to do these videos. We all appreciate it brotha. Maybe us WA boys will cross paths someday. 😬🇺🇲
UEL have rumble sound and have slight lesser bhp if you compared with equal one doesnt have rumble yet better gain. the difference in bhp gain is not really significantly much that one can live without it. so UEL is FTW!!!!
I asked my girlfriend to help me decide with this tough decision. I said it’s like if you lost your voice but you get to live longer. She replied with she would rather live life to the fullest then live longer. Subie rumble is the identity of the car and I will do whatever to mitigate the chances of increased temps for the sound! Such a hard decision but if you’re okay with sacrificing some noise then more power too you!
I’ve only had my ‘19 WRX a few months but figured it had UEL’s from the factory. Guess I really need to get underneath it and take a good look at what I have. Great video, I learned something about my car today.
I will never regret going with ELHs. Holy headers just everything sound so unique, and so much better. To those considering going ELH, this was my experience summed up. It's like jumping off cliff. Could you hate yourself for doing it knowing that if you don't like you just wasted a ton of money because you can't return them after they've been run? Sure. Will it be something that gets your giblets all hot, bothered when you hear it for the first time. Yes.
On a side note, for those curious about numbers... On my first tune I had a COBB sf intake, turbosmart 45mm EWG, and full catless exhaust on 93 making 340whp, and 330trq. at 16lbs.
Great videos as always man! I’m new to the channel since I bought my second STi back in March and I’ve learn a lot of what I know now from your content. Thanks for all you do and making the time to keep delivering great content!
@@Smeedia I appreciate it my guy! Looking forward to seeing how the evo turns out! Random question do you happen to have any videos you’ve done on installing a heat shield on the VA body STI?
@@Smeedia cobb heatshield. I def need to install it before I put on the downpipe I remember from my last STI I changed thee stock one cause it didn't fit well with the invidia downpipe I was running.
@@Smeedia so I just got a 2014 STI 60k miles one owner and very clean. No mods. I love subies because of their iconic rumble but I do want my sti to be reliable. If I got ELH for my first mod, do I need to tune the vehicle afterwards as well? And if I keep the UELH, what do you recommend to keep it as reliable as possible. Power isn't a real issue for me so I'm definitely wanting to keep it as stock as possible. Thanks!!
I hit boost faster with my Perrin ELH. Compared to the stock EJ headers, I can now hit 24 psi @ 2700 with no turbo porting. Cylinder temps are much more even (not lower, but even) all around as well. ELH in combination with a cylinder 4 cooling mod and Koyorad radiator will save your engine from grenading when it gets very hot in terms of IAT and ambient temp.
Very interesting, if you switched to aftermarket uel headers you’d have even more response. Might want to switch if your looking for response. Rally cars run small turbos and uel headers for maximum response because the port is so much closer to the turbo it spools much faster than el.
Perfectly know what the deal is now about the headers I definitely love the rumble on the un equal length headers but I will never kill my wrx for the rumble with that being said I really appreciate you making this video so explanatory
facts right here. People talking about "power" lol. IF you want real power you wouldn't go for Subie in the first place. Subies are all about the sound.
I have been running equal length headers since I got the car with 45k miles. I have 154k and had to get a new turbo but the compression test was perfect. So I think it protects the engine maybe.
You would still make the same power if you upgraded to an aftermarket UEL one. unless you're making like 600wheel then EL would make a more noticeable gain
This makes things easy for me since I've always preferred the EL sound to the UEL. Don't get me wrong, UEL grumble is INSANELY hot, but the EL just hit different, especially at higher revs.
I have an 08 STI - EJ257, stock VF48 single scroll turbo, stock UEL headers. I plan to get aftermarket headers and am deciding whether to go UEL or EL. I don't care about retaining or losing the boxer rumble. I just care about my torque curve going as high and wide as possible. I'm finding it difficult to get hard data on real world gains. Lots of anecdotal evidence, but not data. I often hear that EL headers are better for your engine because of lower EGTs because the runs are shorter. However, in the diagram in the video, the runs look longer in the EL compared to the UEL. Sure, with the UEL headers the runs from cylinders 2 & 4 are longer than for cylinders 1 & 3 so you would expect to see more problems with cylinders 2 or 4 before 1 or 3. But, for the EL headers the runs from EVERY cylinder look longer than the runs from cylinders 2 & 4 of UEL headers. So, by that argument EL headers will have higher EGTs and be worse for your engine than UEL headers for every cylinder! Did I misunderstand something here? Anyway, where's the data on this? Lots of stories of cylinder 4 going on the EJ257 doesn't prove anything about UEL headers being worse for engine longevity. It probably suggests that UEL headers are worse for cylinder 4 longevity compared to the other cylinders. FWIW, my tuner says that for my requirements of going for 300 kW atw for street and occasional track use, unequal length headers are the only way to go.
this is a great subject to cover. most people i feel arent educated what the differences are. the weaknesses the strengths. if i bought a new sti an aos and equal length headers would be my first mods. when i bought my 18 wrx over three years ago i thought the rumble was from the engine only to educate myself to find out its actually the exhaust. i was pretty disappointed. not only is from the exhaust buts its bad for the car. still though sti's still sound really good with equal length headers. much better than the fa motors.
I've always loved the sound of UEL, but when I shaped mine over to ELH it sounded more aggressive IMO, plus there is no doubting the gains that come with it 🔥😁
Subaru WRC cars use custom built EL headers with Twinscroll and antilag which gives them their unique sound. Believe it or not, they also have 2 cats in their exhaust on the WRC cars too :)
Brother! I came back to the video I intermitted last time.. I was absent for a while 😅. So now, I'm going to catch up with your videos) Great and clear episode! Like as I always see it on your channel))
I just noticed you take youe subie to surgeline. Lol would you recommend them as a tuner? I just bought my first wrx and I'm looking into building a solid/reliable but still fun to pour the coals to her occasionally motor/transmission and your videos are extremely knowledgeable I feel like. Thank you
I have a 2015 wrx that I’m doing . I just ordered the plm equal length header with dual waste gates . I already have a high flow catted j-pipe , invidia r400 cat back , Perrin top mount intercooler , Perrin charge pipe , Cobb air intake, Perrin air oil separator, greedy boost controller, Aem wide band , I’m looking for 350 hp reliable as possible. Is there anything else that you would recommend I add?
Great video brother, like many others get the benefits, but that sound is as addictive as the cars themselves, the EJ20 2.2 is still my fav sounding, top end for me isn’t really an issue in my cars, it’s more low to mid I am always wanting, more so I don’t have to floor it just to get that engine to sing, I am wanting more of that sound I am finding as things progress, that said I follow am following all your advice and tips on longevity and prevention where possible. You KillerB setup always sounded good when you swapped, but there is still that difference, you covered it well my man, comes down to what the heart wants or the ears in this case! Ya have to pay to play as they say 🤪👻
@@Smeedia Your setup def sounded good, she was hard to see it dropped for the EG, at the time, man if you haven’t yet check out Buckys rebuild of his Bucket EJ, dam thing is just sic, plus Tony Hawk was on channel, 3 of my favs hitting big today, Smeedia, Buckyeah and Tony the King Hawk. 🤙
Sold the blobeye wrx(got boring to me, didn’t like AWD). Picked up a frs. From my understanding with NA setups exhaust velocity should be consider vs exhaust back pressure because of lack of exhaust recycling(turbo), therefore linear power is there just like you stated with exhaust scavenging, but with wrx/sti back pressure is key to better linear power output. Bigger pipe diameter does gain more hp, but where it’s distributed is bias. Usually top end gains only. EL on the fa20 have shown to be superior all across the graph with tuning. Haven’t done research too deep into the EJs, but many seem to like running EL because the Subaru rumble is faint, but definitely still there and the power gain is also there to back it up. *EQUAL LENGTH IS MORE EFFICIENT, BETTER HP/TQ CURVE, AND SAFER*
@@Smeedia Definitely more suited for me. Love that I can control it with just throttle modulation. WRX made me work for it a bit, was on brakes a lot. Power is nice top end, definitely feel that torque dip, but it’s super fun to drive. I’m stock and I was able to be right up on a buddy of mine’s 10th gen civic si with a Ots stage 1 tune going in the “canyon”. This thing would easily outrun my wrx in a drag if I got to modifying it(10 year difference). These FA are pretty neat. Overall, personally I’d prefer RWD over AWD as for aggressive driving/racing. Wrx/STI are nice cars, but they got lots to smiles per gallon 😬.
Art is not what you do 🤣 but your exhaust header explanation was done very very well by you 👍👏. Me I want my FA to perform and to last, so equal length it is, I live in the present and not in the past. My FA may not rumble but I have got it to burble, pop and roar, with a Perrin stainless steel header ceramic coated that allows exhaust gases to exit and recirculate, faster and more. And for those who need rumble I say that’s perfectly okay to, but at some point sadly and likely to soon the engine repair bill will come due. (For those interested I got my headers “White Lightning” ceramic coated by Swain Tech. Great 👍 coating)
Swain tech does awesome work! And agreed, UEL is a hard thing to give up but the gains and benefits from ELH are so much harder to pass up. So many gains to be had!
@@Smeedia So what about your EG 33, Swain Tech coated headers seem like a logical choice to me. Then there is the turbo too, the engine bay overall cooling impact would be significant and help increase output for you.
180 headers on a boxer engine? ie Collect 1 and 4 equal length, collect 2 and 3 equal length then either send them out as dual or separated into each scroll of the turbo or collect them later separately? That would likely be most efficient, idk about packaging. Probably sound the best too.
Just got a tomei equal length header today! 44mm tial waste gate grimmspeed up pipe torque solutions turbo inlet an ID 1050 injectors for 1,500$ love our subi family wooo
@@sleeper.simulant7327 that’s not totally true. I have a Perron AOS (Non-Street Version) and it doesn’t require an Engine Tune. But I totally understand what you are saying 🙏🏽💯
@@blank-pi9cc for max power gains and the guarantee that your engine is running at peak efficiency you should retune your car. Subarus tend to lose power or stay the same without a retune. Play it smart, get it tuned. A lot of companies don’t charge much, if anything, for revisions... cheaper then rebuilding your engine. I play it the safest and don’t daily my Speed6 which like Subaru require tune revisions for peak efficiency and performance, bought a cheap little AWD lancer SE to go back and forth to work in.
I feel like those cylinders get hot because of the uel but also the 3rd cyl gets really hot because the turbo is right there, I feel like that was a poor design I’m going to do a front more to keep the longevity of the motor
Keeping the stock ELHs on my FA20. Other than that I'm good with the mods I have now: Things to note: --Car is a 2015 Subaru WRX Premium 6-Speed manual --As of this writing the car has ~74K miles on it --Her name is Julie :) --From factory I got front and rear weathertech mats for a good price --From factory I got a STi short throw shifter --I've had multiple Blackstone lab results on my motor oil and it proves to hold up very well. I have been constantly using magnetic oil drain plugs for a while to catch any extra metal parts the filter doesn't get to/misses Motor Oil Used: --Motul 8100 X-Clean EFE 5W-30 Synthetic oil Front and Rear Diff fluid Used: --Motul Gear 300 Fully Synthetic Gearbox Oil - 75W90 Performance mods: --IAG TGV Delete --EGR delete (may be IAG but not sure. They all seem of similar quality anyway so doesn't seem to matter) --Invidia 2015+ WRX J-Pipe/Downpipe (High-flow CAT) coupled with Corsa Catback muffler. I believe it is 3" piping --IAG AOS street version --COBB intake --Perrin Pitch Stop --Perrin Pitch Stop Brace. Brace comes with new stainless steel clutch line replacing the stock hard steel line. Required bleeding the clutch line --Perrin Brake Master Cylinder Brace --Perrin solid brass shifter bushing --Cobb 3-Port Boost Control Solenoid --Process West top mounted Verticooler --SouthBend Clutch Stage 2 Daily. Stock flywheel. Was resurfaced. Clutch and fork were done by my Tuner along with a Walnut blasting at around 45K miles --Verus Clutch fork and ball --JR Tuned at PrimeMotoring on Dyno on 93 Octane --Premium Dimpled & Slotted Brake Rotors (#RB-47032) --Front Akebono ACT1078 ProACT Ultra-Premium Ceramic Brake Pad Set --Rear Akebono ACT1114 ProACT Ultra-Premium Ceramic Brake Pad Set --Bled brakes using Motul (2 Pack) 100950 100% Synthetic Brake Dot 5.1 Brake Fluid 1/2 Liter or 500 ml Non-Performance mods: --Mid range hornblasters. I have a stock Subaru fog light switch going to 40 amp relay from old fog light set for the compressor in trunk. Horns are in bumper. Hooked with a 3 way switch to go from stock horns to train horn. Looks pretty stealthy in the car. Pain to install (neatly) and get working. Horn is triggered by the stock steering wheel horn --BlackVue front and rear dashcams. Wiring routed neatly. Wired up to the cig plug in center console --Pioneer AVH-X5600 2-DIN head unit. Was essential since the stock head unit left MUCH to be desired. Sound quality increased immensely and left stereo this way. Only gripe I have is it lacks good noise cancelation when on a phone call but otherwise works great. Would love a quality Android head unit but keeping this one. The stock speakers sounded WAY better afterwards --All front headlights (high/low) changed over to LED from Subispeed. This was one of the first mods I did since the Stock bulbs were TERRIBLE. Blinkers left on stock bulbs because I could care less about that :) --Backup alarm that I can switch on and off. Reverse lights work whether I have the alarm enabled or not. Just for fun. Combined with the train horn you can reverse, have reverse alarm enabled, and tap horn twice to sound like a huge 18-wheeler is backing up or something like that :) --17" BBS wheels with all season Michellin Sports tires. Still have the stock wheels. May get set of summer and winters and switch them seasonally --Max 360 Escort radar detector. Wired neatly and tapped into switched cig lighter wiring Put the switch for it neatly in console --Interior lighting green from LEDGUYS --Red top battery Current issue with car: --No known issues thus far (knock on wood)
Aside from hp loss which I won’t care about, would it really be bad to run uel headers if I got an fa20 wrx? I plan on getting one and I can sacrifice things for uel’s also I heard but I’m not sure if it’s legit that with a proper dyno tune the power loss from uel’s is nearly non existent but my main concern would be to know genuinely how less reliable it could, or will make the fa20
What would change in terms of torque and power on a naturally aspirated engine, like the FA20 in the BRZ or any of the FB20 engines like in the impreza or crosstrek?
Very informative video! I've loved Subaru and Subie rumble for as long as I can remember and just this summer I purchased my dream car, an STI. I have big plans for it and of course I want it to be loud, I've been really off an on with ULH vs ELH my big thing I want my car to be unique and sound unique to me, I find ALL subies no matter the exhaust set up you run they all sounds the same, that beautiful Subie rumble. I wan't mine to sound unique and I've really been leaning towards ELH but then I feel not only am I sacrificing the classic rumble but I feel the car won't be as loud or sound as a aggressive.. Is there any specific headers set ups I could run to keep a loud aggressive sounding subie? I was thinking HKS or Tomei but idk, It's really hard to find any actual info on these things
I have EJ204 NA engine on SG Facelift Forester streetcar . For NA engine which header is better for performance / fuel efficiency ? EL stock header or UEL header ?
I have a 16 WRX, so FA20. If i swapped to UEL's and swapped the turbo to a single scroll. Would that mitigate alot of the issues FA20s have with UEL's? Obviously EGT's are still an issue but scavenging shouldn't be anymore at that point.
What’s the absolute highest hp you could go before having to switch over to el? I would think that at some point in the quest for more power that the uel design would ultimately be just too inefficient and problematic. although I have heard of a few higher hp builds that still utilized uels. Just curious to see what your opinion is
I wouldn't be able to answer that lol but I've seen some 600+ WHP STIs still using an UEL set up. But to get the most from it at some point the swap to ELH would have to be made 😅
If you want to make the most power possible. The WRX is the wrong platform to do that. Have yet to see UEL cause damages. Mind you these cars had UEL headers for how long?
hey smeedia i install the killer b header and now i am getting p0420, any idea how to remove that code ? everything seem running rights. i have 2019 sti
@@Smeedia I have maperformance catted downpipe but I apparently downpipe will throw a code on 2019 + sti with the new cobb green speed from what I read from your video explaining
2017 WRX STi: I plan on installing my coated elh possibly this weekend .. i dont have a tune map for them yet .. just running the cobb stage1+ right now .. do you think i will have issues running the elh untuned temporarily?
do the unequal length headers on really cause problems when adding significant mods? If that is the case, is it really worth giving up the subaru sound or just going a little lighter on the mods.
@@Smeedia thanks for the reply, I was undecided to replace the stock headers with Elh, you made it easier to make a decision, again thanks for the help, keep it up love the content👍
understand the EL will increase engine reliability - but how much? i don't think there is any data to support, on the other hand the stock STI comes with UEL probably get tested intensively in the factory.
If its not too much to ask can u give me a list of what I should get for the fuel system cuz im not sure if I should get the complete cobb fuel system kit which is around $1800
@@Smeedia Cool and thank you very much for your help and I pick up my car tomorrow from the exhaust shop and I'm getting the Nvidia r400 turbo back exhaust
So I'm still kinda new to owning an sti and I still always get confused. If I wanted to replace my headers would I need a tune? Same with the downpipe, would I need a tune if I replaced my downpipe? And would there be a way I can do that through my accessport, or would I need to take it somewhere to be tuned?
Anything that changes how much air (both intake an exhaust) or fuel will require a tune. Most tuners use a program called accesstuner which uses the accessport so you would need one then go take it to get tuned
Thanks so much for the useful video! I am thinking to switch over to ELH. Does it require a computer tune afterwards if I am just using factory down pipe and a HKS cat back exhaust for now? FYI: I don’t have an accessport. Thank you and looking forward to your reply.
You will need either a protune or an Etune to dial it in. Car might run funny if you swap without a tune. I would definitely snag an AP so you can do some etuning 🙏🙏🙏
@@Smeedia I see. I need a protune on the AP itself as well since I live in Northern part of Canada, and here is 2500ft above sea lvl, air is a lot thinner, it’s default mapping wouldn’t work properly here. Thanks for the advice, I really like your channel, learnt a lot from your videos👍🏻👍🏻
Reliability is HUGE for me, so if I can spend ~$3k USD now on ELH, AOS, Bigger Radiator, etc, and save thousands more than I'm putting in because my engine goes out, it's worth it.
I totally get all the benefits, but I definitely fall into that category of not being willing to give up the sound over all of that. Exceptional video on explaining this in detail so clearly! Keep up the awesome work Tanner!
No problem keeping ELH! people have been running them for a long time without issue 🔥😁 they do sound better IMO
I here you, I would have trouble giving up the ULH or the TMIC it's too iconic for me. Maybe when the time comes that I "need" them my mind will change.
Really want to do the cylinder cooling mod though!
@@killrockstartv same! Especially after I had cyl 4 ringlands go on my last engine 😆
Once you have to put that top mount intercooler back on a few times you'll learn to hate it 😅
@@Smeedia lol getting ready to do that too with the AOS. Tools arriving from Amazon today 😁
If you want to compare sound
3:37 (UEL)
4:55 (ELH)
🔥🔥🔥
@@SmeediaI always thank you for making me understand everything but. Im not quite sure what comes on my 2015 Wrx FA20. Uniqual or Iqual manifold.
This definitely taught me something about exhaust mods. I'm staying with the equal length headers on my FA 20 2017 WRX.
Best route to go 🔥
The experience of drive Subarus is the best using Unequal. Performance is important but is not all. Excellent video.
As much as I love the "Subie rumble" but when I got my STI with a twin scroll turbo, I was hella disappointed. But the way the boost comes on is way more smooth. With the Invidia exhaust I have (turbo back) the sound is pretty sweet and sounds like a rally car on a cold start. After the mods and a dyno tune, I am happy to sacrifice the "rumble" for a better drive. But I totally understand why one would want have UEL headers.
All STI’s are unequal….
@@aross4054 not the JDM twin scrolls
STi is single scroll not twin scroll.
“Let’s Get Ready to Rumble!” You cannot beat to sound of the “Subie Rumble”.
There is no arguing that it sounds good 🙌
Those that know exhaust and music, know that frequency reverberation, the kind that gives you goosebumps, is found in the design, material and length of the exhaust. Equal length with crossover after a high flow catalytic converter make perfect resonance.
The Helmholtz resonance formula explains how a rigid cavity of static volume can design the perfect resonance. Welds matter, material matters, down to the hardware used to hold everything together. The ear knows.
I know what I have to do but I don't know if I have the strength to do it.
Its okay... your time will come 🙏
The strength comes from within brother. I’m in the same boat. I will go ELH after I pay off my car.
Exactly why I went twin scroll, even exhaust pulses with the oem equal length headers. Makes a world of a difference.
🔥🔥🔥🔥
so glad this came on my recommendations lol! decision has been made! thank you for this absolutely perfect timing video! it was meant to be 😁
Glad I could help my friend! 🔥😁
As of now i officially name you "Marc Merc" now go conquer lands for our kingdom my soldier.
Heck yeah bro! Representing WGU! Cool to see one of my favorite youtubers might be a "classmate" of mine.
Not mine 😅 i finished school not too long ago, its the girlfriends whiteboard but she could be a fellow classmate! Lol
Loving your videos. I have an 09 Wrx, first subie, but I definitely appreciate someone that knows and loves what they talk about and is accurate with the info that is presented. I can tell you take a considerable amount of time out to do these videos. We all appreciate it brotha. Maybe us WA boys will cross paths someday. 😬🇺🇲
Never know! And trying to help out where I can 🔥😁
UEL have rumble sound and have slight lesser bhp if you compared with equal one doesnt have rumble yet better gain. the difference in bhp gain is not really significantly much that one can live without it. so UEL is FTW!!!!
I asked my girlfriend to help me decide with this tough decision. I said it’s like if you lost your voice but you get to live longer. She replied with she would rather live life to the fullest then live longer. Subie rumble is the identity of the car and I will do whatever to mitigate the chances of increased temps for the sound! Such a hard decision but if you’re okay with sacrificing some noise then more power too you!
I’ve only had my ‘19 WRX a few months but figured it had UEL’s from the factory. Guess I really need to get underneath it and take a good look at what I have. Great video, I learned something about my car today.
Glad it helped! 🔥😁
Enjoy it, great car.
Bro....that's exactly what I needed to know. Sold on Killer B equal headers!
🥳🥳🥳
I will never regret going with ELHs. Holy headers just everything sound so unique, and so much better.
To those considering going ELH, this was my experience summed up. It's like jumping off cliff. Could you hate yourself for doing it knowing that if you don't like you just wasted a ton of money because you can't return them after they've been run? Sure. Will it be something that gets your giblets all hot, bothered when you hear it for the first time. Yes.
On a side note, for those curious about numbers... On my first tune I had a COBB sf intake, turbosmart 45mm EWG, and full catless exhaust on 93 making 340whp, and 330trq. at 16lbs.
Lmao died laughing at the giblets 🤣🤣🤣
Those uel sound clips are insane what tf
Great videos as always man! I’m new to the channel since I bought my second STi back in March and I’ve learn a lot of what I know now from your content. Thanks for all you do and making the time to keep delivering great content!
Congrats in the second one and glad to hear you've Ben enjoying the videos 🥳
@@Smeedia I appreciate it my guy! Looking forward to seeing how the evo turns out! Random question do you happen to have any videos you’ve done on installing a heat shield on the VA body STI?
Which heat sheild? 🤔
@@Smeedia cobb heatshield. I def need to install it before I put on the downpipe I remember from my last STI I changed thee stock one cause it didn't fit well with the invidia downpipe I was running.
I don't have any videos unfortunately, I normally use turbo blankets 🥲
Love the videos and excellent review as always. ELH all day.
Thank you! And ELH is my preferred set up as well 🔥🙏
@@Smeedia question why is KillerB the only manufacturer to sell there's with EWG?
They have both versions foe IWG or EWG 🙏
@@Smeedia I noticed that KillerB though is the only manufacturer that offers the wastegates with there's. Perrin nor Tomei offer that
The EWG option is really for people acting to make some solid power, most are fine with the IWG model
You're doing gods work out here bud. Great job.
Thank you! 🙏😁
Still love the Subaru signature rumble sound over the ELH sound. ELH sounds like a Honda Civic D16 fart can.
"Some cars never see failure"
Yeah if you park it 😂
Mannnn 😭 I want power and reliability but the rumble is just so good ; but power is my goal...so I must switch over
I promise the ELH sound grows on you 🔥🔥🔥
You chose wise
@@Smeedia so I just got a 2014 STI 60k miles one owner and very clean. No mods. I love subies because of their iconic rumble but I do want my sti to be reliable. If I got ELH for my first mod, do I need to tune the vehicle afterwards as well? And if I keep the UELH, what do you recommend to keep it as reliable as possible. Power isn't a real issue for me so I'm definitely wanting to keep it as stock as possible. Thanks!!
Trust me, a flat-4 engine with ELH still sounds different than an inline-four. It's angrier and more racy. You'll love it.
I hit boost faster with my Perrin ELH. Compared to the stock EJ headers, I can now hit 24 psi @ 2700 with no turbo porting. Cylinder temps are much more even (not lower, but even) all around as well. ELH in combination with a cylinder 4 cooling mod and Koyorad radiator will save your engine from grenading when it gets very hot in terms of IAT and ambient temp.
Very interesting, if you switched to aftermarket uel headers you’d have even more response. Might want to switch if your looking for response. Rally cars run small turbos and uel headers for maximum response because the port is so much closer to the turbo it spools much faster than el.
@@zokusharuuku1091 I’m good with my ELH. UEL thermal efficiency is worse.
Seems like ELH is the way to go! Thanks Tanner. WooooooOOOOOOoooooooo!
🥳🥳🥳
Perfectly know what the deal is now about the headers I definitely love the rumble on the un equal length headers but I will never kill my wrx for the rumble with that being said I really appreciate you making this video so explanatory
Glad that rhe videos helped over it! 😁🙏
It really did man now I need an sti instead
Subarus are all about the sound. Period.
el all day.
spool
temps
pulses
can go twin scroll
🔥🔥🔥
honestly the only reason id buy a scooby is for the sound, take that alway and there's a dozen cars id probably rather buy for the price range.
Do not blame you at all 🔥
facts right here. People talking about "power" lol. IF you want real power you wouldn't go for Subie in the first place. Subies are all about the sound.
I have been running equal length headers since I got the car with 45k miles. I have 154k and had to get a new turbo but the compression test was perfect. So I think it protects the engine maybe.
It definitely helps to prolong/avoid some of the known issues with heat 🙌
Get the UEL professionally heat wrapped
I Have ELH on my Sti and even though it took the rumble away for the most part, it added power and it now sounds like an evo
Can't complain with that TBH 🔥🙏
You would still make the same power if you upgraded to an aftermarket UEL one. unless you're making like 600wheel then EL would make a more noticeable gain
@@Nanno964 really can u elaborate y
I bet my sti if you swapped what you have now with an aftermarket uel header you’d make even more power and have more response.
This makes things easy for me since I've always preferred the EL sound to the UEL. Don't get me wrong, UEL grumble is INSANELY hot, but the EL just hit different, especially at higher revs.
Killer B ftw, love their products that help Subie owners fix some of the issues/flaws of these cars.
Killber B has always been my go to for headers 🔥
Thanks for the information and have a good weekend.
You as well my friend!
I have an 08 STI - EJ257, stock VF48 single scroll turbo, stock UEL headers. I plan to get aftermarket headers and am deciding whether to go UEL or EL. I don't care about retaining or losing the boxer rumble. I just care about my torque curve going as high and wide as possible. I'm finding it difficult to get hard data on real world gains. Lots of anecdotal evidence, but not data.
I often hear that EL headers are better for your engine because of lower EGTs because the runs are shorter. However, in the diagram in the video, the runs look longer in the EL compared to the UEL. Sure, with the UEL headers the runs from cylinders 2 & 4 are longer than for cylinders 1 & 3 so you would expect to see more problems with cylinders 2 or 4 before 1 or 3. But, for the EL headers the runs from EVERY cylinder look longer than the runs from cylinders 2 & 4 of UEL headers. So, by that argument EL headers will have higher EGTs and be worse for your engine than UEL headers for every cylinder! Did I misunderstand something here?
Anyway, where's the data on this? Lots of stories of cylinder 4 going on the EJ257 doesn't prove anything about UEL headers being worse for engine longevity. It probably suggests that UEL headers are worse for cylinder 4 longevity compared to the other cylinders.
FWIW, my tuner says that for my requirements of going for 300 kW atw for street and occasional track use, unequal length headers are the only way to go.
Dorian is here great vid, keep it up #team smeedia
😁😁😁
this is a great subject to cover. most people i feel arent educated what the differences are. the weaknesses the strengths. if i bought a new sti an aos and equal length headers would be my first mods. when i bought my 18 wrx over three years ago i thought the rumble was from the engine only to educate myself to find out its actually the exhaust. i was pretty disappointed. not only is from the exhaust buts its bad for the car. still though sti's still sound really good with equal length headers. much better than the fa motors.
I've always loved the sound of UEL, but when I shaped mine over to ELH it sounded more aggressive IMO, plus there is no doubting the gains that come with it 🔥😁
@@Smeedia so are you putting equals on the eg33?
Yessir 🙏🙏🙏
Thanks bro! I want to get a UEL header, I love that subie rubble,
It does sound 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Gotta say the EL is cool, but I used to watch WRC and I've also been in love with that rumble since childhood. I will always rock UEL on my bugeye
The iconic noise is what gets us all and it does sound better 🔥😁
Subaru WRC cars use custom built EL headers with Twinscroll and antilag which gives them their unique sound. Believe it or not, they also have 2 cats in their exhaust on the WRC cars too :)
@@justinhoover8355 interesting to know! I could belive the cats considering the cars have to be road legal
Brother! I came back to the video I intermitted last time.. I was absent for a while 😅. So now, I'm going to catch up with your videos)
Great and clear episode! Like as I always see it on your channel))
Alqays here to help my friend! 😁🔥
Got to have my Subaru rumble! lmao! Thanks, brother.
The rumble is a hard thing to give up 🔥😁
@@Smeedia Is Iconic! without it is just not a Subaru! IMO! lol!
I'm keeping my rumble
Long live the rumble! 🔥
Bro I'm digging the drawing
I just noticed you take youe subie to surgeline. Lol would you recommend them as a tuner? I just bought my first wrx and I'm looking into building a solid/reliable but still fun to pour the coals to her occasionally motor/transmission and your videos are extremely knowledgeable I feel like. Thank you
I have a 2015 wrx that I’m doing . I just ordered the plm equal length header with dual waste gates . I already have a high flow catted j-pipe , invidia r400 cat back , Perrin top mount intercooler , Perrin charge pipe , Cobb air intake, Perrin air oil separator, greedy boost controller, Aem wide band , I’m looking for 350 hp reliable as possible. Is there anything else that you would recommend I add?
Great video brother, like many others get the benefits, but that sound is as addictive as the cars themselves, the EJ20 2.2 is still my fav sounding, top end for me isn’t really an issue in my cars, it’s more low to mid I am always wanting, more so I don’t have to floor it just to get that engine to sing, I am wanting more of that sound I am finding as things progress, that said I follow am following all your advice and tips on longevity and prevention where possible.
You KillerB setup always sounded good when you swapped, but there is still that difference, you covered it well my man, comes down to what the heart wants or the ears in this case! Ya have to pay to play as they say 🤪👻
Very true! And the ELH sound takes a little time to get use to but once the car gets into power it sounds so aggresive!
@@Smeedia Your setup def sounded good, she was hard to see it dropped for the EG, at the time, man if you haven’t yet check out Buckys rebuild of his Bucket EJ, dam thing is just sic, plus Tony Hawk was on channel, 3 of my favs hitting big today, Smeedia, Buckyeah and Tony the King Hawk. 🤙
I've seen a few of his videos I need to check out his most recent 🔥😁
I do love that subaru sound tho... 😅😅😅😅
Sold the blobeye wrx(got boring to me, didn’t like AWD). Picked up a frs. From my understanding with NA setups exhaust velocity should be consider vs exhaust back pressure because of lack of exhaust recycling(turbo), therefore linear power is there just like you stated with exhaust scavenging, but with wrx/sti back pressure is key to better linear power output. Bigger pipe diameter does gain more hp, but where it’s distributed is bias. Usually top end gains only. EL on the fa20 have shown to be superior all across the graph with tuning. Haven’t done research too deep into the EJs, but many seem to like running EL because the Subaru rumble is faint, but definitely still there and the power gain is also there to back it up. *EQUAL LENGTH IS MORE EFFICIENT, BETTER HP/TQ CURVE, AND SAFER*
Agree 100%, and solid choice with the FRS! How are you liking it compared to your old blob eye? 🔥
@@Smeedia Definitely more suited for me. Love that I can control it with just throttle modulation. WRX made me work for it a bit, was on brakes a lot. Power is nice top end, definitely feel that torque dip, but it’s super fun to drive. I’m stock and I was able to be right up on a buddy of mine’s 10th gen civic si with a Ots stage 1 tune going in the “canyon”. This thing would easily outrun my wrx in a drag if I got to modifying it(10 year difference). These FA are pretty neat. Overall, personally I’d prefer RWD over AWD as for aggressive driving/racing. Wrx/STI are nice cars, but they got lots to smiles per gallon 😬.
Totally agree, ever since I turbocharged mine I've been more than happy with it 🔥😁
Omg thank you so much bro now you made me decide to order my racing ulh for my 05 WRX xD
Glad the video could help 🙌
Equal Length FTW!
🔥😁🔥😁🔥
Absolutely 💯 Facts
Art is not what you do 🤣 but your exhaust header explanation was done very very well by you 👍👏. Me I want my FA to perform and to last, so equal length it is, I live in the present and not in the past. My FA may not rumble but I have got it to burble, pop and roar, with a Perrin stainless steel header ceramic coated that allows exhaust gases to exit and recirculate, faster and more. And for those who need rumble I say that’s perfectly okay to, but at some point sadly and likely to soon the engine repair bill will come due. (For those interested I got my headers “White Lightning” ceramic coated by Swain Tech. Great 👍 coating)
Swain tech does awesome work! And agreed, UEL is a hard thing to give up but the gains and benefits from ELH are so much harder to pass up. So many gains to be had!
@@Smeedia So what about your EG 33, Swain Tech coated headers seem like a logical choice to me. Then there is the turbo too, the engine bay overall cooling impact would be significant and help increase output for you.
@@WRXMAN-ms2mm going to have to, EG33s are known to run HOT
180 headers on a boxer engine? ie Collect 1 and 4 equal length, collect 2 and 3 equal length then either send them out as dual or separated into each scroll of the turbo or collect them later separately? That would likely be most efficient, idk about packaging. Probably sound the best too.
Great content!
Thank you 🙏😁
Very helpful, thank you.
Gotta love that UEL headers. You can hear it mile down.
Very true 🔥🔥🔥
Just got a tomei equal length header today! 44mm tial waste gate grimmspeed up pipe torque solutions turbo inlet an ID 1050 injectors for 1,500$ love our subi family wooo
Yasssss solid set up!!!!
Does an EQUAL LENGTH HEADER require an engine Tune?
Thanks 🙏🏽 for the video!!
Yes it will require a tune 🙏🔥
The ONLY thing you can do that doesnt require tuning is a catback exhaust
With Subarus any mod you do should get a retune
@@sleeper.simulant7327 that’s not totally true. I have a Perron AOS (Non-Street Version) and it doesn’t require an Engine Tune. But I totally understand what you are saying 🙏🏽💯
@@blank-pi9cc for max power gains and the guarantee that your engine is running at peak efficiency you should retune your car. Subarus tend to lose power or stay the same without a retune. Play it smart, get it tuned. A lot of companies don’t charge much, if anything, for revisions... cheaper then rebuilding your engine. I play it the safest and don’t daily my Speed6 which like Subaru require tune revisions for peak efficiency and performance, bought a cheap little AWD lancer SE to go back and forth to work in.
Definitely a helpful video
🙏🙏🙏
I feel like those cylinders get hot because of the uel but also the 3rd cyl gets really hot because the turbo is right there, I feel like that was a poor design I’m going to do a front more to keep the longevity of the motor
Any insight on fuel economy of UEL vs EL on an EJ platform? I can’t seem to find anything covering it
Yeah, I wish I had that rumble. But my wrx gets 32 mpg on the freeway . Take the good with the bad
Can't complain about that fuel milage 🔥🔥🔥
Keeping the stock ELHs on my FA20. Other than that I'm good with the mods I have now:
Things to note:
--Car is a 2015 Subaru WRX Premium 6-Speed manual
--As of this writing the car has ~74K miles on it
--Her name is Julie :)
--From factory I got front and rear weathertech mats for a good price
--From factory I got a STi short throw shifter
--I've had multiple Blackstone lab results on my motor oil and it proves to hold up very well. I have been constantly using magnetic oil drain plugs for a while to catch any extra metal parts the filter doesn't get to/misses
Motor Oil Used:
--Motul 8100 X-Clean EFE 5W-30 Synthetic oil
Front and Rear Diff fluid Used:
--Motul Gear 300 Fully Synthetic Gearbox Oil - 75W90
Performance mods:
--IAG TGV Delete
--EGR delete (may be IAG but not sure. They all seem of similar quality anyway so doesn't seem to matter)
--Invidia 2015+ WRX J-Pipe/Downpipe (High-flow CAT) coupled with Corsa Catback muffler. I believe it is 3" piping
--IAG AOS street version
--COBB intake
--Perrin Pitch Stop
--Perrin Pitch Stop Brace. Brace comes with new stainless steel clutch line replacing the stock hard steel line. Required bleeding the clutch line
--Perrin Brake Master Cylinder Brace
--Perrin solid brass shifter bushing
--Cobb 3-Port Boost Control Solenoid
--Process West top mounted Verticooler
--SouthBend Clutch Stage 2 Daily. Stock flywheel. Was resurfaced. Clutch and fork were done by my Tuner along with a Walnut blasting at around 45K miles
--Verus Clutch fork and ball
--JR Tuned at PrimeMotoring on Dyno on 93 Octane
--Premium Dimpled & Slotted Brake Rotors (#RB-47032)
--Front Akebono ACT1078 ProACT Ultra-Premium Ceramic Brake Pad Set
--Rear Akebono ACT1114 ProACT Ultra-Premium Ceramic Brake Pad Set
--Bled brakes using Motul (2 Pack) 100950 100% Synthetic Brake Dot 5.1 Brake Fluid 1/2 Liter or 500 ml
Non-Performance mods:
--Mid range hornblasters. I have a stock Subaru fog light switch going to 40 amp relay from old fog light set for the compressor in trunk. Horns are in bumper. Hooked with a 3 way switch to go from stock horns to train horn. Looks pretty stealthy in the car. Pain to install (neatly) and get working. Horn is triggered by the stock steering wheel horn
--BlackVue front and rear dashcams. Wiring routed neatly. Wired up to the cig plug in center console
--Pioneer AVH-X5600 2-DIN head unit. Was essential since the stock head unit left MUCH to be desired. Sound quality increased immensely and left stereo this way. Only gripe I have is it lacks good noise cancelation when on a phone call but otherwise works great. Would love a quality Android head unit but keeping this one. The stock speakers sounded WAY better afterwards
--All front headlights (high/low) changed over to LED from Subispeed. This was one of the first mods I did since the Stock bulbs were TERRIBLE. Blinkers left on stock bulbs because I could care less about that :)
--Backup alarm that I can switch on and off. Reverse lights work whether I have the alarm enabled or not. Just for fun. Combined with the train horn you can reverse, have reverse alarm enabled, and tap horn twice to sound like a huge 18-wheeler is backing up or something like that :)
--17" BBS wheels with all season Michellin Sports tires. Still have the stock wheels. May get set of summer and winters and switch them seasonally
--Max 360 Escort radar detector. Wired neatly and tapped into switched cig lighter wiring Put the switch for it neatly in console
--Interior lighting green from LEDGUYS
--Red top battery
Current issue with car:
--No known issues thus far (knock on wood)
kind of late to the video. Can you make a video or comment if we decide to stay with UEL, what can we do to mitigate issues and increase reliability ?
Aside from hp loss which I won’t care about, would it really be bad to run uel headers if I got an fa20 wrx? I plan on getting one and I can sacrifice things for uel’s also I heard but I’m not sure if it’s legit that with a proper dyno tune the power loss from uel’s is nearly non existent but my main concern would be to know genuinely how less reliable it could, or will make the fa20
You'll reduce your MPG, be more pron to Detonation dude to higher EGTS, lose some low end power. With a tune it should be okay
Any recommendations for going UEL? The second my warranty runs out I’m running it! Keeping it stock otherwise tho I just want that sound.
Tomei uel is the way 🔥
K I was just wondering why my built 257 block doesn't have that rumble and has elh thank you
What would change in terms of torque and power on a naturally aspirated engine, like the FA20 in the BRZ or any of the FB20 engines like in the impreza or crosstrek?
Unequal also promotes better spooling. Older Subarus should also be tuned when going to equal cause you're changing exhaust characteristics.
I've heard that UEL does so but haven't come across anything to back it up
Very informative video!
I've loved Subaru and Subie rumble for as long as I can remember and just this summer I purchased my dream car, an STI. I have big plans for it and of course I want it to be loud, I've been really off an on with ULH vs ELH my big thing I want my car to be unique and sound unique to me, I find ALL subies no matter the exhaust set up you run they all sounds the same, that beautiful Subie rumble. I wan't mine to sound unique and I've really been leaning towards ELH but then I feel not only am I sacrificing the classic rumble but I feel the car won't be as loud or sound as a aggressive..
Is there any specific headers set ups I could run to keep a loud aggressive sounding subie? I was thinking HKS or Tomei but idk, It's really hard to find any actual info on these things
KillerB header will still keep some rumble since it's a different design elh.
I have EJ204 NA engine on SG Facelift Forester streetcar . For NA engine which header is better for performance / fuel efficiency ? EL stock header or UEL header ?
Does anyone have any feedback and opinions on the Killer B Holy 4-1 headers?
Best header for there imo for street cars
I have a 16 WRX, so FA20. If i swapped to UEL's and swapped the turbo to a single scroll. Would that mitigate alot of the issues FA20s have with UEL's? Obviously EGT's are still an issue but scavenging shouldn't be anymore at that point.
What’s the absolute highest hp you could go before having to switch over to el? I would think that at some point in the quest for more power that the uel design would ultimately be just too inefficient and problematic. although I have heard of a few higher hp builds that still utilized uels. Just curious to see what your opinion is
I wouldn't be able to answer that lol but I've seen some 600+ WHP STIs still using an UEL set up. But to get the most from it at some point the swap to ELH would have to be made 😅
My sti made 510whp on the stock manifold with a top mount Intercooler with a stock location turbo at 25 psi.
Unequal length header better street drive will bring on the turbo on earlier. Equal will make more power top end good for drag setup.
What advise can you share with us about water methanol application on sti?
People use it but mainly when E85 is not avaliable. If you do decide to do it I highly suggest a fail safe system
If you want to make the most power possible. The WRX is the wrong platform to do that.
Have yet to see UEL cause damages. Mind you these cars had UEL headers for how long?
I would really go for equal lenght, because I'm old and not for the sound. :D And I have equal in my Levorg.
Equal length is what I always go with as well, and super jelly of your Levorg!
Would i need a tune if i wanted to install tomei unequal length headers on my 06 Wrx?
My Mitsubishi outlander 07 v6 has a stock of uel can i change it elh or should i stay to uel? I already installed Catback and had a good sound of it.
I like how all these cars still sound the same
hey smeedia i install the killer b header and now i am getting p0420, any idea how to remove that code ? everything seem running rights. i have 2019 sti
That's catalyst efficient I belive, what down pipe do you have?
@@Smeedia I have maperformance catted downpipe but I apparently downpipe will throw a code on 2019 + sti with the new cobb green speed from what I read from your video explaining
That is correct, that would be the source for the P0420
@@Smeedia RIP. Anyway thanks you for away answering my questions
Do I have to tune the car if a run any of this headers in a 2017 STI ?
Will you gain or lose power with ELH on a naturally aspirated engine?
2017 WRX STi: I plan on installing my coated elh possibly this weekend .. i dont have a tune map for them yet .. just running the cobb stage1+ right now .. do you think i will have issues running the elh untuned temporarily?
do the unequal length headers on really cause problems when adding significant mods? If that is the case, is it really worth giving up the subaru sound or just going a little lighter on the mods.
Depends on what your doing, but for the most part your fine with UEL, ELH are just a more efficient service up
An after market UEL header would be better than the factory EL on an N/A though yeah?
Does UEL headers make the car slower if it was to be compared to the same car / stock with no headers?
No, you'll get a size increase for the ID of the piping and will still make more power
Do you even recommend getting EL headers over stock?
Yessir, many benefits using ELH over UEL. 🙏 you will need a tune for an ELh though
@@Smeedia thanks for the reply, I was undecided to replace the stock headers with Elh, you made it easier to make a decision, again thanks for the help, keep it up love the content👍
Do you recommend me to get a Subaru cause a lot of people keep telling me that they are trash
Do I need to tune it after swapping to ELH for my 2017 STI?
Bit late to the video but would wrapping the pipes from the long side of UEL headers prevent that extra heat?
Unfortunately no, you'd be trapping all that additional heat in the header
So you should technically be okay running uel headers if you get the cylinder 4 cooling mod?
understand the EL will increase engine reliability - but how much? i don't think there is any data to support, on the other hand the stock STI comes with UEL probably get tested intensively in the factory.
There's been a handful of companies that have done testing between the two, I believe Killer B has some
I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too. I want that subie rumble tho!
Nothing wrong with keeping it around 🔥
Im planning on buying the killer b headers which one do u recommend for my 2018 sti limited?? And should I also get them with EGT bung ??
No egy bung needed and what are your power goals?
350whp
Just the standard killer B 🔥
Thanks for recommending the killer b headers they work great...Im also doin a fuel system upgrade do I need to do a TGV delete also??
If its not too much to ask can u give me a list of what I should get for the fuel system cuz im not sure if I should get the complete cobb fuel system kit which is around $1800
Hey Tanner how are you and does the Subaru STI 2017 come with unequal length headers or equal length headers please bro
It comes with unequal length 😁
@@Smeedia Cool and thank you very much for your help and I pick up my car tomorrow from the exhaust shop and I'm getting the Nvidia r400 turbo back exhaust
So I'm still kinda new to owning an sti and I still always get confused. If I wanted to replace my headers would I need a tune? Same with the downpipe, would I need a tune if I replaced my downpipe? And would there be a way I can do that through my accessport, or would I need to take it somewhere to be tuned?
Anything that changes how much air (both intake an exhaust) or fuel will require a tune. Most tuners use a program called accesstuner which uses the accessport so you would need one then go take it to get tuned
Smeedia so if I got just some tomei uel headers would I need a tune?
Yes you would 🙏 changing the ID of the piping will effect flow
Im thinking to make custom UEL header for my old toyota that Im bored of. Is it gonna hurt the pistons or engine much?
It may increase EGTs a little but I wouldent stress it too much if it's N/A
Thanks so much for the useful video! I am thinking to switch over to ELH. Does it require a computer tune afterwards if I am just using factory down pipe and a HKS cat back exhaust for now? FYI: I don’t have an accessport.
Thank you and looking forward to your reply.
You will need either a protune or an Etune to dial it in. Car might run funny if you swap without a tune. I would definitely snag an AP so you can do some etuning 🙏🙏🙏
@@Smeedia I see. I need a protune on the AP itself as well since I live in Northern part of Canada, and here is 2500ft above sea lvl, air is a lot thinner, it’s default mapping wouldn’t work properly here.
Thanks for the advice, I really like your channel, learnt a lot from your videos👍🏻👍🏻
Reliability is HUGE for me, so if I can spend ~$3k USD now on ELH, AOS, Bigger Radiator, etc, and save thousands more than I'm putting in because my engine goes out, it's worth it.
100% 🔥🔥🔥
Elh aos and a tune and you'll be set man.
Do you have an update?
@@Blackstarentity it's just a pipe dream, I can't afford a car