0:00 Why I Hate MikroTik 0:30 MikroTikSA 2:10 Cape Town, South Africa 2:18 Full Disclosure 2:28 What's this all about then? 5:20 Actual Conversation at a Technical Conference 6:31 Common Misconceptions 8:26 Magic Bullet Solution? 13:39 You may not know 14:22 NV2 Download Ratio 16:10 You may not know 18:18 NV2 Master Configuration 18:44 Common Misconceptions 19:32 CapsMan 19:37 Common Misconceptions 20:17 CAPsMAN Features 22:43 Unrealistic Expectations 23:12 inadequate Hardware Specification 24:00 Understand Your Hardware 24:53 CHR vs CCR 25:30 CCR 26:41 example 27:08 CHR / Bare Metal 28:59 CHR and BGP Edge Router 30:19 Lack of Research 32:27 RB750Gr3 block diagram 1 33:09 Lack of Understanding 35:42 To Summarise
Ironically the same reason I hate RouterOS is the same reason I love it. It's so granular, it forces me to learn everything I am doing and sometimes, I really hate that. This is because I'm not a network person in any sense and sometimes just want something simple. Yes yes I know if I want something simple, go with those other vendors. I just want to be clear that I know Mikrotik is a very well made product and every GOOD network engineer I've ever met love it. So I know it's got some great thought behind it from those Latvian geniuses.
Meanwhile I just like MikroTik because they sell the cheapest 10G switch by a long shot and it's passively cooled as well (noiseless). Yeah, I'm not much of a network guy.
You can sum the first chapter up: puzzled by vendor not spending time to quantify lack of industry standard features and then making clear roadmap decisions based on that.
I switched from USG to mtik and have not looked back since. I use Ubiquiti AP and switches in my deployment and mtik as the router. Best of both worlds. 19:21 There is one very big downside of CAPSMAN vs Ubiquiti. In UB, I can ADOPT my AP and if it disconnects, I can see it. In CAPSMAN, if an AP is disconnected, it is just gone from the list. This doesn't help me monitor AP statuses easily without using say, netwatch. Is there a way to change this behaviour?
just connecting to it wirelessly will knock my pc off the network in spite of manually setting the ipv4 metric. The ones I got, I got them because they were the cheapest thing out there to just be a wireless router. I'd say there's something wrong with them, because I can't imagine why it would be unable to get a dhcp address nor why it would knock my pc off my network when I've never ever seen that before.
Bro... I will tell you why there are people who don't like Mikrotik. It's because the training for it on the details, is fucking horrendous. Especially on your amazing wireless technology. It's basically figure it out buddy. Sure you have some stuff online, but setting up mesh networks, and your Capsman instructions, and I could go on. It's all an inconsistent mess. Training videos are what people want and all the good shit is in a foreign language. I love the product myself though. Another flaw is trying to get the product you want on time and in bulk. Sometimes it's like "where's waldo" trying to track down some of your products. And we have several highlevel vendors. Just sayin.
unrealistic expectations? Like when I expect after a reset and wired connection to internet port on the LAN with my 2 dhcp servers and it never gets a dhcp address and literally any other device can? deal breaker.
Yeah, I know what you mean... But Romon or ip neighbors would help you work around that. Frankly, it's a silly reason to hate it though.. Cisco's are the same.
@@KILLERTX95 I wouldn't have a Cisco either, I'd sell it and buy 20 ubiquitis. I remember a guy bragging how if he has a problem with a cisco that cisco will be there in 2 hours. I said if I have a problem with a ubiquiti, I'll break out a new one in 2 seconds.
Yeah. No. Ubiquitis are excellent, and im not fond of cisco. But having worked with all three professionally, Mikrotik, ubiquiti, and cisco. Comparatively, Ubiquitis routing and firewall suck! Ubiquiti is suitable for a home or a mid-sized non-it business; its ease of use and features FAR outshine any home router making it great for that use case. However, due to its "ease of use," it hides complexity, making it near impossible to do what you need to do with them. As an example, you (at least last time I checked) couldn't assign two ip to the same port, which is a requirement in a lot of cases. For me, they all have their place.. Mikrotik is great for advanced features at a great price. Ubiquiti is perfect for ease of use, with some stunning network work features out of the box. Cisco, cisco belongs in the data centre... You install it, forget that it's there and in 20 years time replace it. It's just that reliable.... For a price.
We have literally hundreds of Mikrotik routers deployed, and it is our goto choice for managed router installs for both our corporate use and our clients. That being said. I both love and hate them at the same time. We choose them for our router needs because we need the ability to set up complex traffic shaping rules and it's built-in support for multiple VPN connectors. No other manufacturer provides the same level of features. We often bundle VOIP telephone service our internet packages and having the ability to create custom rules that isolate that VOIP and prioritize that data and provide perfect audio quality over even the weakest of internet connections is an absolute necessity and the QOS abilities of other products lines do not even compare in any way what so ever. But, it can be a nightmare trying to manage hundreds of these devices, even with the use of their 'Dude' server which acts as a centralized management platform for that. Inside the lan, and for our wireless solutions, its always going to be ubiquity hardware. Switches, Cameras, wireless p2p and p2mp, ubiquity is the choice just because of ease of use of their unif and unms management software.
Because if every company was dropping standards and customer expectation and know better than anyone else in the industry - you will get haters. For all the good reasons. Global standards, incl. configurations, are there for a reason. I dont want to have phD in every appliance I use. Ergo: MK sucks giant turd except for 3lyte fanboys. LIterally every other pplicance is more user friendly what is CRITCAL when things goes south 3:00 AM. I dont want your granuar buushait, I want 1:1 DMZ on one click and 20 second solution to the problem if office is down. Everything pointed out in this presentation is a no-go. It's Arch installation all over again. complexity for the sake of unnecessary elytism which doesnt bring anything to the table and is useless or flat out harmful in enterprise environment. And that, my childern, is why I hate Mikrotik. PM me for cheap used routerboard for sale, we are getting rid of this shait and theres not a single person in the company that doesnt exhale in grand relief
I hate MikroTik for only be manageable by a Windows application. Would they provide a usable cli (not PS like), would make them almost always the device of choice.
@@nikitakipriyanov7260 You obviously didn't read my comment. So you would know, that I only use ssh to manage my devices. And that is exactly the issue: prohibitively, non intuitive, awful cli. SSH is just the transport. The cli itself is in question. Regardless if used via serial or ssh.
@@jani140 But the CLI and the GUI practically resemble each other. Whenever I find anything in GUI, almost always it is in the CLI in the same place. I agree that some things in RouterOS that are not that logically placed and I need to google just to find out where they are, but in such cases it means I would not be able to find them in the GUI either. Other things are just awfully implemented (try to configure VLANs on CRS125 to get what I mean). Third things are made differently on different hardware; it's clear that all of these machines have different capabilities and methods of configuration, but the purpose of RouterOS interface as a management tool is to hide those hardware differencies and make them under the common term, where possible. This was not done, again, not in CLI nor in the Winbox or WebGUI. So it is strange to want Winbox while claiming the CLI is awful. My own discontent with SSH implementation is primarily because it is assumed to be human-only interface which inhibits tools like Ansible. I even had a bug report about that, to which I got a response, "use API". Well, why would I (setup additional dedicated service), when there is SSH?
@@nikitakipriyanov7260 Again not read carefully. I hate RouterOS for being primarely built to be managed by windows software. I don't have any windows. Crap design does not work for me.
![USAB Showcase: CANADA vs USA [OFFICIAL STREAM]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m9Cz3xsdDgc/mqdefault.jpg)
0:00 Why I Hate MikroTik
0:30 MikroTikSA
2:10 Cape Town, South Africa
2:18 Full Disclosure
2:28 What's this all about then?
5:20 Actual Conversation at a Technical Conference
6:31 Common Misconceptions
8:26 Magic Bullet Solution?
13:39 You may not know
14:22 NV2 Download Ratio
16:10 You may not know
18:18 NV2 Master Configuration
18:44 Common Misconceptions
19:32 CapsMan
19:37 Common Misconceptions
20:17 CAPsMAN Features
22:43 Unrealistic Expectations
23:12 inadequate Hardware Specification
24:00 Understand Your Hardware
24:53 CHR vs CCR
25:30 CCR
26:41 example
27:08 CHR / Bare Metal
28:59 CHR and BGP Edge Router
30:19 Lack of Research
32:27 RB750Gr3 block diagram 1
33:09 Lack of Understanding
35:42 To Summarise
Ironically the same reason I hate RouterOS is the same reason I love it. It's so granular, it forces me to learn everything I am doing and sometimes, I really hate that. This is because I'm not a network person in any sense and sometimes just want something simple.
Yes yes I know if I want something simple, go with those other vendors. I just want to be clear that I know Mikrotik is a very well made product and every GOOD network engineer I've ever met love it. So I know it's got some great thought behind it from those Latvian geniuses.
Meanwhile I just like MikroTik because they sell the cheapest 10G switch by a long shot and it's passively cooled as well (noiseless). Yeah, I'm not much of a network guy.
They have something for everyone. Glad you found a reliable brand for your needs which also offer great value :)
You can sum the first chapter up: puzzled by vendor not spending time to quantify lack of industry standard features and then making clear roadmap decisions based on that.
Do you know if Mikrotik is going to help with OLT hardware ?
Good presentation
Thank you, very interesting!
I switched from USG to mtik and have not looked back since.
I use Ubiquiti AP and switches in my deployment and mtik as the router. Best of both worlds.
19:21 There is one very big downside of CAPSMAN vs Ubiquiti. In UB, I can ADOPT my AP and if it disconnects, I can see it. In CAPSMAN, if an AP is disconnected, it is just gone from the list. This doesn't help me monitor AP statuses easily without using say, netwatch. Is there a way to change this behaviour?
Well spoken - And it's very close to my own opinion :-)
So you're saying I should buy a Mikrotik firewall and switch for my homelab.
just connecting to it wirelessly will knock my pc off the network in spite of manually setting the ipv4 metric.
The ones I got, I got them because they were the cheapest thing out there to just be a wireless router.
I'd say there's something wrong with them, because I can't imagine why it would be unable to get a dhcp address nor why it would knock my pc off my network when I've never ever seen that before.
Most likely wrong cabling or other misconfiguration. Post your setup in our forum and we will help
Unify's routers suck, you can boil an egg on them.
And he works for mikrotik ? Or Ubiquiti :D
He works for neither.
I hate Mikrotik but I cannot live without them!
Electrolythic capacitors.
nope paper-in-oil caps got the tone mojo..
Yay Cape Town!
Bro... I will tell you why there are people who don't like Mikrotik. It's because the training for it on the details, is fucking horrendous. Especially on your amazing wireless technology. It's basically figure it out buddy. Sure you have some stuff online, but setting up mesh networks, and your Capsman instructions, and I could go on. It's all an inconsistent mess. Training videos are what people want and all the good shit is in a foreign language. I love the product myself though. Another flaw is trying to get the product you want on time and in bulk. Sometimes it's like "where's waldo" trying to track down some of your products. And we have several highlevel vendors. Just sayin.
Mikrotik rocks. But their products are wayy overpriced here in South Africa. Why?
Try cisco
I use mikrotik router for my home (hap lite) and it only 20 bucks and you have all the goddies like coorporate grade router..
@@djrcchannel6496 ... No.
If you don't understand a device, do bash it, just get smarter.
unrealistic expectations? Like when I expect after a reset and wired connection to internet port on the LAN with my 2 dhcp servers and it never gets a dhcp address and literally any other device can? deal breaker.
Yeah, I know what you mean... But Romon or ip neighbors would help you work around that. Frankly, it's a silly reason to hate it though.. Cisco's are the same.
@@KILLERTX95 I wouldn't have a Cisco either, I'd sell it and buy 20 ubiquitis. I remember a guy bragging how if he has a problem with a cisco that cisco will be there in 2 hours. I said if I have a problem with a ubiquiti, I'll break out a new one in 2 seconds.
Yeah. No. Ubiquitis are excellent, and im not fond of cisco. But having worked with all three professionally, Mikrotik, ubiquiti, and cisco.
Comparatively, Ubiquitis routing and firewall suck! Ubiquiti is suitable for a home or a mid-sized non-it business; its ease of use and features FAR outshine any home router making it great for that use case.
However, due to its "ease of use," it hides complexity, making it near impossible to do what you need to do with them. As an example, you (at least last time I checked) couldn't assign two ip to the same port, which is a requirement in a lot of cases.
For me, they all have their place.. Mikrotik is great for advanced features at a great price. Ubiquiti is perfect for ease of use, with some stunning network work features out of the box. Cisco, cisco belongs in the data centre... You install it, forget that it's there and in 20 years time replace it. It's just that reliable.... For a price.
We have literally hundreds of Mikrotik routers deployed, and it is our goto choice for managed router installs for both our corporate use and our clients. That being said. I both love and hate them at the same time. We choose them for our router needs because we need the ability to set up complex traffic shaping rules and it's built-in support for multiple VPN connectors. No other manufacturer provides the same level of features. We often bundle VOIP telephone service our internet packages and having the ability to create custom rules that isolate that VOIP and prioritize that data and provide perfect audio quality over even the weakest of internet connections is an absolute necessity and the QOS abilities of other products lines do not even compare in any way what so ever. But, it can be a nightmare trying to manage hundreds of these devices, even with the use of their 'Dude' server which acts as a centralized management platform for that. Inside the lan, and for our wireless solutions, its always going to be ubiquity hardware. Switches, Cameras, wireless p2p and p2mp, ubiquity is the choice just because of ease of use of their unif and unms management software.
we dont want to dumb it down but give us f info about what is what and wha it suppose to do.
Because if every company was dropping standards and customer expectation and know better than anyone else in the industry - you will get haters. For all the good reasons. Global standards, incl. configurations, are there for a reason. I dont want to have phD in every appliance I use. Ergo: MK sucks giant turd except for 3lyte fanboys. LIterally every other pplicance is more user friendly what is CRITCAL when things goes south 3:00 AM. I dont want your granuar buushait, I want 1:1 DMZ on one click and 20 second solution to the problem if office is down.
Everything pointed out in this presentation is a no-go. It's Arch installation all over again. complexity for the sake of unnecessary elytism which doesnt bring anything to the table and is useless or flat out harmful in enterprise environment. And that, my childern, is why I hate Mikrotik. PM me for cheap used routerboard for sale, we are getting rid of this shait and theres not a single person in the company that doesnt exhale in grand relief
I hate MikroTik for only be manageable by a Windows application. Would they provide a usable cli (not PS like), would make them almost always the device of choice.
learn how to SSH, srsly
@@nikitakipriyanov7260 You obviously didn't read my comment. So you would know, that I only use ssh to manage my devices. And that is exactly the issue: prohibitively, non intuitive, awful cli. SSH is just the transport. The cli itself is in question. Regardless if used via serial or ssh.
@@jani140 But the CLI and the GUI practically resemble each other. Whenever I find anything in GUI, almost always it is in the CLI in the same place. I agree that some things in RouterOS that are not that logically placed and I need to google just to find out where they are, but in such cases it means I would not be able to find them in the GUI either. Other things are just awfully implemented (try to configure VLANs on CRS125 to get what I mean). Third things are made differently on different hardware; it's clear that all of these machines have different capabilities and methods of configuration, but the purpose of RouterOS interface as a management tool is to hide those hardware differencies and make them under the common term, where possible. This was not done, again, not in CLI nor in the Winbox or WebGUI.
So it is strange to want Winbox while claiming the CLI is awful.
My own discontent with SSH implementation is primarily because it is assumed to be human-only interface which inhibits tools like Ansible. I even had a bug report about that, to which I got a response, "use API". Well, why would I (setup additional dedicated service), when there is SSH?
@@nikitakipriyanov7260 Again not read carefully. I hate RouterOS for being primarely built to be managed by windows software. I don't have any windows. Crap design does not work for me.
not for the dumbs. you need to be a true tech, else, just buy the lite version or basic or stay with pure L2 routers.