SAILBOAT REBUILD - what they DON'T TELL YOU about PRODUCTION BOATS - Plastskador repair week 2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- This week we look more into the construction of a production boat compared to a hand built boat. It was also interesting to learn what parts need to be ground down and what access holes need to be cut away. I also have some projects in mind, one of them being a bigger bilge pump and some cables also need running. The keel bolts are looking good so I don’t think they need replacing. So far so good.
I'm a boat builder in the uk and have had to repair a number of yachts with similar damage.
I think I've seen four Oceanis 34's in the past couple of years for example.
Couple of things that struck me from the video.
Your info re epoxy is incorrect.
I agree that laminating strength would be fine using polyester or even better, vinylester.
However this repair relies on bonding performance to a vinylester hull as well as laminating.
Bonding performance of vinylester on cured vinylester laminate is reasonable.
The bonding performance of polyester however is poor.
Epoxy will significantly outperform both.
Finishing of the inside of the hull using a white epoxy primer is just as easy as gellwashing it, with the added benefit of the epoxy being watertight where'as the gelcoat is microporus. (hense Osmosis)
I would also advise the use of Polysulphide sealant such as Arbokol1000 for the keel joint.
You really don't need the adhesive qualities of Sika or Saba as thats what the Keel bolts are there for.
What you do need is the sealing qualities and Adhesive Sealants tend to lose their sealant qualities long before the adhesive.
Overtime when the sealant hardens it loses its flex and water will creep in via capilary action to the root of the keelbolts providing the ideal conditions for crevis crack corrosion.
I have seen this numerous times.
Much better to use a flexible sealant that does not harden over time and rely on the keelbolts to hold the keel on as thats what they're there for.
And if ever the keel has to come off again you dont rip part of the hull off .
@@billhanna8838 We have a rule here at the yard that if its bolted down (cleats, fairleads, tracks, hatches etc) then use Arbokol or even butyl tape. The main resoning is that the majority of these fittings will be removed again within 10 years for one reason or another.
Also keelbolts are not a tighten up and forget job, they need re tightening to the correct torque on a regular basis (every two or three years) as the bolts do stretch a little, the laminate will compress a little.
Hi Mike, it sounds like you have a lot of experience, I appreciate you watching. Thanks for the input It's good to compare different procedures and materials.
About the polyester... you will see more of this in the next video but I will explain. As you said Polyester resin on it's own will not laminate well to vinylester, this is why the Crestafix polyester adhesive is used to create the initial bond between the hull and the first layer of glass and as you know this is the most important part. Plastskador have done multiple tests with this method and it's proved extremely strong. The glass is then laid on top and the polyester resin can then be wetted in. Also the reason the polyester is used is because it's more than strong enough for this application, Plastskador have witnessed many times, previously repaired boats that have been grounded again come back with damages located in the next weakest area in the boat. Usually the damage new damage is located further up the hull and not in the previously repaired area. As you mentioned there are ways of finishing the epoxy using primer but gelcoat can be applied to the polyester and in my opinion will create a nicer finish and closer to the way it looked leaving the factory.
When it comes to the keel, Plastskador have seen on occasion that the shock of a grounding can sometimes strip the bolts and because the sealant is flexible it will pull the keel back towards the boat. I saw this fist hand with our boat, the bolts held but there was water in the bilge directly after the grounding. The leak had stopped because the adhesive pulled the keel back up and resealed the gap. I personally I would prefer both a sealant and adhesive holding the keel on for maximum safety, I wouldn't want to rely on just the bolts. You can see at the end of my first repair video how much extra holding strength it gives the keel. Thanks for the advice on the chemicals though, I will check them out, cheers
On the maxi 1000 owners website nice article on removal of a glassed in keel recessed what a nightmare it is to get off compared to this one - echoing the builders chaps points above some thought on maintenance helps - this boat in question did not sink or loose it’s keel and can be mended - good result nice work
@@gbr562 Yes seen a Bavaria s keel twice removed (Charter boat & Funny same rock) Not a nice ending with the keel epoxied , Medium Job become a major repair
Same story like Expedition Evans. Hmmm, interesting.
Saillife had to glass his grid too
@@brianluck84 Yeah but his was a totally different reason. He got water into his core so he doubled up the glass on the grid to not have to remove the core and redo it.
@@brianluck84 Good old Mads, love the channel
@@RobbZinn Very true
you should check out how X-Yachts mount their keel into a steal craddle that also takes the mast and the spreaders. Had a grounding with my X-442 on an uncharted rock after Tsunami in Thailand, at about 6 knots, the boat stopped with a massive bang, but we managed to here off the rock. On inspection, the lower led keel itself had some holes and scoops of led missing. The keel to hull bond was solid all around, no cracks in the hull or keel mount area. Inside the craddle was in perfect shape, no delamination, keel bolts straight and undamaged. Back in the water in a few days. X-Yachts !
Sounds like you got very lucky, i saw an x yacht being repaired the other day, would put the picture here if possible. The X yachts are awesome boats, you really get what you pay for but it comes at a cost. A new x Yacht is more than double a Hanse, wish I could afford one. They have a steel grid instead of fibreglass. The only problem is, if the steel grid bends, you are in big problems. Great boats though and very fast. This year we raced my friends x443. Cheers
@@SailingAurora A lead keel will absorb the force better than some alternatives.
Hi ,
I just saw your repair project and you mentioned skin fittings and valves… seriously consider Marelon valves and skin fittings… they are immensely strong as they are not just nylon…they are glass fibre reinforced and comply with commercial survey specs… i use True Design fittings on my boat
I wouldn't buy a production boat. Ever. I really do struggle with bolt on keels. I have grounded a few times and my well built solid keel took it in its stride. Grounding is a fact of life on a sail boat and I just can not get my head around compromising the integrity of the boats structure. I love the look and finish of these boats but think this is a flaw that needs be addressed.
Hi Steven, you have some fair points and I agree somewhat. Nowadays people are looking for performance also and full keels or longer keels are just a little slower. I guess the solution is to never run aground but we both know that is unlikely. A company called Linjett in Sweden has a good solution with a swinging keel in the event of ground, but I sense problems there also. BR Chris
That’s o k if you can afford hand built
A laminated fin keel with internal lead ballast would be nice.
Your instincts about bolted keels are quite correct. It will probably recede as a technology, and its main purpose was only to make sailboats available at a lower price point. It has been, overall, a debacle.
Boat maintenance and repair is expensive. I doubt I'd buy a small cruiser but if I did I'd favour a Victoria 30 with full Keel and encapsulated ballast. At least you know its not going to fall off and the Hull design is seakindly.
I remember the story of Drum in the Fastnet which suffered Keel failure and flipped over. Beneteau and Dufour are the same with a bolt on fin waiting to snap or fall off.
You shouldn't need a thru-hull for a bilge pump. It is normal practice to discharge through an open port in the transom above sea level (with a flapper/check valve to prevent backflow). The pump should be more than capable of lifting the flow to the required level. Either way, you don't want a T to restrict flow. You should have a dedicated hose (with no connections or restrictions), end to end for both manual and electric pumps.
Hi Stephen, thanks for the advice. I am still thinking how best to do it. It may not be easy on the transom. Watch this space. Cheers, Chris
Hey Chris, you will be getting some of the 'Expedition Evan's' crew over here soon :).
I am so pleased to see the work going ahead and being done correctly. I believe you are correct in saying you will have a better boat at the end of this process. Hypothetically if I was to choose your boat new for your proposed round the world journey or after its repair I would hands down choose it after the repair.
Hi Paul. Yes, we also find it very interesting to follow and compare the process with 'Expedition Evans'.
We wish it hadn't happened in the first place, but you are absolutely right, the boat will be stronger when done, so overall it's a bad situation that will have a positive outcome. Cheers Chris & Tanja
@@SailingAurora I'm an Evans subscriber too. Just found you and subscribed today. Avocet is good too. And Mads of course! Uma! Is that huge hose vacuum air or pressure air?
unfortunately ... these boats are VERY poor candidates for real tough off shore work - they are at best coastal cruisers not real off shore boats.. When the going gets tough out there and the compromises in design - ballast displacement ratios etc. show themselves - these boats go up for sale after ONE passage... There are many boats that made it to Tahiti and then go up for sale... boats that should never have ventured out on passage in the first place... The exact same thing is true for Expedition Evans... it will be educational to watch them venture off shore with that boat and see how they fare... VERY educational... There is a big difference between a production boat and a boat built and designed for real off shore work... Experience is a CRUEL teacher..
@@danerlich7393 Just a thought there is another side......the POSITIVE side.......Beneteau Boat, Novice Sailor who goes on to travel the globe, meets girl, falls in love, then goes on to create the worlds most successful TH-cam sailing channel 'Sailing La Vagabonde' .......Experience LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY LIVED NOT LOST. (Outremer 2017 - present). Over 1.5Million Subscribers
I am sorry you see Experience as a CRUEL teacher..
As a fellow Australian I am proud of Riley and how he started out, in a perfect world I would not have chosen a Beneteau BUT that's the point we don't live in a perfect 20/20 world with TH-cam perception and hindsight about everything. A good deal on a boat came up and the rest is history. Are Expedition Evans going to be 'schooled' by your CRUEL teacher, I hope not, but it certainly seems there are many like you who simply can't wait for that chance which is rather sad.
There will always be risks and there will always be boats better suited to certain conditions. It is up to each individual to weigh those risks and plan their voyages around this great planet accordingly, taking into account their knowledge and ability along with the capabilities of their vessel.
@@Paul_Crosbie Heh, you chose Vagabonde as comparison to circumnavigation. TH-cam allows them as the Wynns, to sail when they choose. Thats not sailing. Thats making videos on a sailboat.
And yes, experiance is a very very hard teacher. Ask anyone that lost a boat and survived. I did.
I just watched the Evans couple fix there boat that had similar damage. But the other issue that came up was the entire grid structure delaminated it’s was gelcoat chop strand then woven glass cloth the chop strand didn’t stick to either one they had to rebuild half the grid. I am sorry that shows some serious production issues, it’s not design or materials. Personally I can’t get past that, wouldn’t buy a boat from that company no way
Put a 30mm condut across in the grid then you will have space for wiring later
Thanks, exactly the plan:-) Cheers, Chris & Tanja
This makes me feel great about our decision to buy an older Swan rather than a (much) newer Beneteau for similar money.
I had a brand new yacht custom built I later was shocked at how thin the laminations were. I later bought an older yacht that was built by a well respected builder and the difference in strength is extraordinary. Years later this yacht still looks new. Zero stress fractures.
It's amazing what a little extra can do with boat building, it's all about the budget I guess :)
Buy a used HR or Amel, better an old boat with solid structure than a production boat. Those boats are mainly for chartering companies.
Not sure about Amel but looking into HR's they are also built with a similar construction method with a grid www.hallberg-rassy.com/resources/how-a-hull-is-built/. With the price tag I am sure there are many great things about the way they are built, would love to have one. I guess it was the older HR's that were built without a grid construction. We don't regret our decision with a Hanse though, we love this boat
@@SailingAurora HR have full keels integrated to the hull. Amels also have the keels integrated with hull, it's one structure so to say. And to be clear I didn't mean you should sell your Hanse, it's just an advice to people who might wanna buy a sailboat in the future (not for daysailors).
@@HenryA798 Agree. This kind of keel design is great for day-sailers or coastal cruisers. The bolted-on, higher aspect keel provides great hydrodynamic lift to windward and helps you point higher. They also have less wetted surface area and generate less drag. My boat has one, and I'm perfectly happy with it.
If I wanted to quit my job and sail around the world through unfamiliar waters, I'd sell it and get something with integrated ballast.
Expedition Evans bought a grounded boat and repaired it themselves. Same issues.
And they consulted pros and used epoxy ,not cheap polyester
Hi Bill. Yes, we are also following Expedition Evans. They have done a great job!. Cheers, Chris & Tanja
@@Mechone11 There are different applications for Epoxy and Polyester, if applied correctly Polyester is more than adequate, I will cover this in the next video and explain a little of why epoxy was not used. Plastskador has been around for 30 years and is well known all over the Nordics for quality repairs, they also do a lot of the work for the major insurance providers, I've done my research and they know what they are doing.
@@SailingAurora Mine was done by a custom yacht builder of 50 years from Holland and done in Canada. Epoxy is stronger to an already cured structure . Boats are not made out of epoxy only due to costs. Vinylester is a compromise in strength and is better resistance to water and cheaper than epoxy.I'm sure your boat and most production boats are vinylester I'm sure it will be fine and they know what they are doing ,however then why the adhesion tests? . There are many tests on youtube boatworks today for example. I had 3 well known boat repair yards quote on my boat and they all said epoxy, just saying ,done by insurance with a surveyor hired by them
@@Mechone11 Sounds like you had some good boat builders too. The adhesion tests were for a few reasons.. 1. Because why not before you commit to the whole hull 2. To double check there are no unwanted chemicals anywhere such as silicon, diesel etc. this is really bad.... and 3. Testing the sanding depth for the adhesion. Probably unnecessary but doesn't take long to have a double check before the commitment.
Don’t buy new boats
Brass has to be protected against galvanic corrosion. Plastic turns brittle.
Thanks Stephen, the new ones I put in are composite from Trudesign. Highly recommended
After watching several of these videos, what they say is true. A boat is a hole in the water where you money goes.
The quality of the bilge hose is as important as the pump. I changed out my old (corrugated) hose for a smooth bore (on both electric and manual pumps) and either can now empty the bilge in a fraction of the time that it used to require (for the same size pump). There is a world of difference between lamina flow and turbulent flow.
Great comment, thanks for the tip. All of our pipes are smooth and steel reenforced. Just have to buy the bilge one soon, will keel this in mind, thanks
i worked in Saare Yachts year ago for two years. EVERY ship we made and now they make has the foundation FULLY laminated as it should be. the bonder or filler is only the first step to round off the edges for laminating and is in NO way a replacement of full laminate. THIS ONLY BONDING PRACTISE IS A SCAM AND POSES A SERIOUS RISK TO THE SHIP AND CREW. It really DOES NOT take that long to laminate the foundation frame to the hull (i know, ive done it my self), its just companies trying to save money by using less material. if you know of a ship company that does this DO NOT BUY THEIR SHIP!!!!! trust me, it would have been waaaay quicker and easier for the ship builders to laminate it to the hull while the hull was bare and with out the deck (this grid is the first thing that goes into the empty hull) than it is for you to do post production. SAARE YACHTS makes em proper.
Hi, thanks for the input, I agree. Unforrtunely most of the production manufacturers are just glueing the grid down, they are laminating the bulkheads down at least
I came here from a comment on Expedition Evans and look forward to watching your journey. Liked, subscribed and rang the bell!
Hi James. Welcome to the channel! Yes we are also following Expedition Evans, what an amazing job they have done! Stay safe, Chris & Tanja
@@SailingAurora Yes, amazing job. I recall Sailing Uma's Kika and Dan also did quite a bit of work reinforcing and improving the grid on their Pearson 37, and no question it was a good boat to start with, but now even stronger. I'll have to mention Leo Sampson, who is restoring a wooden pilot boat "Tally Ho", but similar concepts apply. I definitely would be interested in seeing a comparison of the various techniques / tradeoffs.
As Chris says, most modern boats have been built this way for a number of years. HR use a similar grid frame that is bonded (whether it's over laminated I'm not sure, in some pictures it doesn't look like it is). You have to remember the energy involved in 12 tons of boat travelling at (let's say) 6 knots meeting a solid object like a rock. If you think of a car analogy and you have an accident, the chasis is always checked afterwards, this is the boats "chasis". This is why the ORC are now stipulating hull condition checks before offshore races, especially after cheeki raffiki and it's various repairs. Modern boats / keel designs are fine for all the conditions they will encounter at sea, but not designed for significant contact with the land or immovable objects. The important thing after damage is the integrity of the repair and this job looks to be very thorough. Get those wires and some spare mousing lines in whilst you can Chris ;-)
You guys are wrong about Hallberg Rassy they do not rely on the grid to support the keel, their hull forms a deep flange at least 200mm
often deeper the keel is then bolted to this, i have seen a HR 64 after hitting a rock at 8 knots the keel and joint was still good
the was damage was along the hull as it was well heeled over when the collision happened and the hull scraped along an adjacent rock
but not bad enough for water to penetrate. As someone else has said buy a secondhand HR any day over one of the mass production new builds , If you are serious about Sailing offshore..... Here is their latest 40 footer see the stubby Flange.......
www.hallberg-rassy.com/fileadmin/user_upload/HR40Cinteriorsideview.jpg
@@Adrian-sail www.hallberg-rassy.com/resources/how-a-hull-is-built/. I'll just leave that there, I guess some of the Rassy's are built with a grid. Maybe different with each model
You guys are insisting that keel repairs are a part of life, when you perhaps should insist that design changes are in order. A bolted keel on a dropped-in frame is a great way to have a boat that's almost never at sea. Groundings happen every single day of the year.
@@steampunk888 “a bolted keel on a dropped in frame”……you mean like pretty much every modern production boat built over the last decades…literally thousands of them sailing all over the world and crossing oceans.
I'm following another channel called Expedition Evans and they bought a salvage beneteau that also grounded causing the same damage as yours, they did exactly the same stripped the bonding and laminated everything back in. they did it themselves, you're lucky you got someone to do it for you
Hi Werner. We are also following Expedition Evans and the fantastic job that they are doing. Ours is an insurance case, so yes we are lucky that we have professionals to do it. Cheers, Chris & Tanja
All these arguments over one chemical or another ... if you want a REAL boat, have one built from WOOD. You’ll soon realize that wood floats very easily, whilst all that fibreglass scrap will sink like a rock. Boats ... that is, REAL BOATS are built with wood. Take a trip on a wooden boat & you’ll agree with me.
You have a good point and I think some wooden boats are very petty. However it depends what wood is used to build the boat, some wood is more buoyant than others and I'm sure will all the additional equipment, it would sink anyways with additional equipment. Check out the Vasa ship in Stockholm, it sank within 20 minutes of her maiden voyage, its an interesting story of how it was raised 300 years later. Wooden boats also carry alot of maintenance with them
you do not need a seacock for the big (or any) bilge pump, because the through hull has to be way up above the water line. Of course no T into the existing bilge pump line. Big hose, 1.5" and no check valve.
That's exactly what I did, thanks for the advice though
you are passing through what @Expedition Evans passed, they got a damaged boat and there are tons of videos of all their work to re-laminate a grounded Beneteau.. good learning channel of how the boat is built
Hi Miguel, yes we have been following their channel closely and it's really interesting. I wish I could be down at the yard all of the time to really share it like they did but I have to run another job as well. Hope you are enjoying both channels. Cheers, Chris
that's why I'm searching for a steel boat...
Or you can get a boat with an incapsulated keel and not worry about keel bolts or endless rust.
I've heard of a tee valve being added to the engine cooling system to suck in bilge water in an emergency to augment the bilge pump.
Personally, I don't think that would add much. Better to add another bilge pump for more throughput AND redundancy.
I think Sailing Nahoa did a test on this also. The throughput wasn't that great. Would be good as an extra though I guess
yes yes it has a keel. it hits the bottom.
it is the comparison of a crumple zone in a car..
you fix it better in a weight saving design it would just rip the bottom out. it is designed to a certain impact.
you may have been better of with benato reefseeker. it will sink on a decent wack or actually you have the comparison now.
Not much crunple zone on the fin keels these days, I get ya. At least she is a good boat again now. Cheers
Keel bolts tend to be cast in lead, and drilled/taped in iron.
Uhh, the crack behind the Keel.
Complete replacement Hull that Point.
Strength it up.
They did a great job grinding this back and re glassing, she is really strong now :)
This boat was brand new only a few years ago?? You must be spending 200k on repairs.
Hi Wil. Yes the boat is new, it was built in 2018, and we picked it up from the wharf in Germany spring 2019. Cheers, Chris & Tanja
The more I see this grid issue in these the more I'm glad I'm rebuilding a older Newport.
Can't blame you, good luck with the rebuild
@@SailingAurora Thanks you too. I'm going to end up pulling my floor up to check mine too, but going to make it accessable incase I have a grounding issue as well.
The bonding, if done with quality materials, is very good practise, the reason that Hanse is in business is because they choose the best, most economical way to build. This collision is about as bad as it can get without holing the hull. I can so empathise with feeling confidence in the tradespeople. Looking forward to seeing this completed.
Well said
Thanks Phillip, as always appreciated. I agree completely. I touch on this a little in the video released today. Cheers, Chris
This is months of hard work to repair. Very comprehensive which it needs to be. Thanks for sharing. The bonding is not much better than filler. It's glass without the reinforcing glass. By the way epoxy will bond onto polyester. But polyester won't bond onto epoxy. I also incorporate carbon fibre into high stress repairs and have found that by the time I have finished the repairs are massively strong.
The second bilge pump is a definite Go Ahead. The one you have is way too Pussy for a boat of this size and investment. A separate hose and discharge port is a definite Yes. I also do not like standing water in my bilge--always want to determine how it got there?!-Mikey, Belfair, Wa, USA
My thinking exactly. I just need to mount an anti syphon valve at some point in the pipe. Since this video the bilge pump is mounted and will work well I think. Thanks for the comment
I have watched way to many videos of problems with production boats, I have been in the market for a 45'-65' sailing catamaran and I decided on an aluminum hull boat and I am building it myself.
Sounds like an awesome project. I would love to learn Aluminium contruction and welding for sure, unfortunately only so much time in the day though :) Good luck on the project
@@SailingAurora I own a metal fabrication business so it's building aluminum structures is within the realm of what I do. I am going to either buy off the shelf plans for a boat or work with a naval architect to design my own from scratch.
I am happy looking for a 90’ Halberg Rassy instead of a 2020’ production boat 💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼
I guess it's the difference between a yogurt pot and a hand built boat
True that, I have been observing that a lot of boat builders are using the same grid technique these days though.
Polyester is horrible stuff. The catalyst is very dangerous. If you get even the tiniest bit in an eye, you will lose the sight in that eye. One case I remember in the 1970s was a guy who got some polyester resin in one of his eyes. He immediately washed his eyes with fresh water, but a minute amount of polyester was transferred to his other eye. The first eye went blind quite quickly. It took 6 or 7 years for the other eye to go blind. This was documented in the late 1970s, before the internet, so you might not be able to find it on line.
In any case, epoxy is far superior to polyester. Polyester didn't bond well. It was sort of OK bonding to polyester, but it wouldn't bond to epoxy. I have no info on bonding to vinylester. Polyester was used on expensive, heavy, inferior production boats.
Hi there, Interesting to know about the health implications of Polyester. Sounds like some pretty horrible stories about the stuff. The guys at plastskador are always suited up with all the protection on while laying up glass and dealing with the resin.
After many comments on the channel and doing a lot of research, I can see the arguments for both Polyester and Epoxy. I believe a lot of the opinions stem from workers being used to a certain material to work with. In this case the yard that my boat is in now has been working with Polyester for many years and it's a true and tried method also. If they were getting boats back because the material was not strong enough, they would have switched to Epoxy a long time ago. Also the Polyester being used here is Isophthalic and not orthophthalic. Isophthalic polyester resins are undoubtedly of a higher-grade and offer substantially higher strength, better flexibility and chemical resistance. When you start using Epoxy it's a whole different animal, to achieve maximum bonding performance the conditions need to be right and to get the perfect result a vacuum is sometimes needed to get the air out. Polyester is a lot more forgiving in the aspect and coupled together with Crestafix, it makes an extremely strong bond. They have even tested the bond with saturated glass with Diesel and it's still good. Personally, I think Polyester will be more than good enough.
Also with Epoxy you it's not best practice to spray a Polyester gelcoat over it, meaning you have to use top coat, once you use Epoxy, you are stuck with it and can never go back.. Again I can see the arguments for both, but in my case I am really not worried. Cheers, Chris
@@SailingAurora That sounds good to me. These guys obviously know what they are doing. Perhaps my post should be taken as a warning to amateurs doing small jobs. Also, it's possible that new types of polyester are not as dangerous as the old ones. But, I think that people should be aware of the potential dangers.
Strewth a lot of work , but necessary, I dare say
Good luck
🐼🐼🏴🏴
Question since you put your vessel out to charter, the insurance pays the damage, and I'm sure you insured for chartering, the people who chartered does that fall on them like renting a car? Just asking, I heard a gentleman that purchased a sailboat said his first year insurance was very expensive, I think was great cause I didnt even think about that? Like a 16 year old getting insurance on a car.
Hi there, when the charterers rent the boat they put down a deposit, this is the equivalent to the deposit taken from an insurance company in the event of an accident. Boat insurance works differently all over the world and of course it's not good to make too many claims. I hope this helps you :)
@@SailingAurora thank you
Mate I'm an home boat builder using epoxy/glass composites and I could tab in that entire grid section to the hull with glass 4 inch tape and epoxy in one day no problem
that bilge pump I'd consider TWO of them if you're refitting! I know its a 40 amp draw but batteries are perfectly capable of handling that and it could save your boat (and especially if you get knocked down and lose that keel)! and of course if you don't need both of them you'd only need to turn one of them ON. Also have the outputs above the water line one on one side and the other on the other. Also I'd suggest plastic through hull fittings. Yep. I mean you can put protectors around those fittings on the outside to protect against impact damage. That's what I would do, anyway. Sure I mean what are the odds of them getting impacted anyway not very high unless you're a complete idiot. Does this boat sport a full keel? hey don't go deep blue with a fin keel! Those things just cannot handle huge waves! This also means you have either a skeg or even worse, spade rudder. I owned a cape dory 28 for a number of years that thing could go anywhere on the planet even though it was only 28 feet. But no way I'd be out there in the big pond with a fin keel like you have there. The cape dory also had a keel mounted rudder that thing was indestructible. Your boat has either been dropped on its keel by some idiot or an even bigger idiot ran it aground at speed. Once again a long keel would be unaffected by this and in fact at dry dock the cape dory can sit on its keel with only the side supports keeping it upright. I even careened mine to save some bucks to anti-foul it. You would not wanna try that with a fin keel! Cape Dory's don't have keel bolts either its molded right into the hull when its layed up (its not added later). Wow the shear load on those bolts in a heavy sea? nope not going there. Old aged out salt here I've said my piece.
Never use brass on a salt water boat... that has de-zincification problems where it turns porus and pink...
Check out FastFlow bilge pumps, clamp on the prop shaft and pumps more water than ALL other bilge pumps if you keep the prop turning. Don't Tee the bilge pump line since you'd need to put a check valve (and they always fail) to keep one pump from dumping water back down through the other pump. Understand every connection, every foot of head, and curves lower your GPM throughput, and your DC will drop as the bilge pump runs the battery down, so that affects your GPM too.
Great comment, noted and learning all the time. Cheers, Chris
I hope you have good insurance. Clearly, the boat had to be stripped down to the ribs to do this repair! A brutal cost impact!
Hi there. Yes, all covered by the insurance and self risk by the charters deposit. Thank g.. for that. Cheers, Chris & Tanja
@@SailingAurora you can get boat insurance to cover faults and failures?
Are those bolts stainless ! If yes better use mild high strength !
There was no need to replace them this time
Using polyester-resin over anything old will ONLY create mechanical bond that is much weaker than using EPOXY over old laminate. If you can afford, always use EPOXY when doing repairs. BUT: when doing complex forms, like laminating over different structures, you get some extra strength into your structure. New laminates should be done in short time, so that all the layers form also CHEMICAL BOND, not just mechanical. I would also use stainless steel bolts or screws to connect old and new structures, just in case. Interesting to see from this video: the damage to the interiors ! Never thought they could be also so massive.
Recommend have a second Pump, even a third in spare.
Absolutely, we ideally want another in the bow somewhere just incase
You experienced the reason I will only own a full keel boat. I know of dozens of fin keels boats that have suffered this same damage. 9 out of 10 never make it back to the water. Those boats include models of every manufacture you mentioned at the beginning of your video.
I can't blame you if you want a full keeled boat, they are very robust. Fin keel boats are definitely prone to this damage, up here in Scandinavia as we have a lot of rocks, it's a common occurrence to run aground and there are a lot of companies doing this kind of repair. I guess the insurance companies assess if it's a write off or not before paying for the repairs.
My attitude is, fin keels and spade rudders are unseaworthy, period.
@@Garryck-1 Yes, I agree.
It's not fin keels that is the issue but bolted on keels. A fully encapsulated fin keel is as strong as a full keel, with none of the disadvantages. Old 70's and 80's boats with fully encapsulated fin keels have been grounded many times with none of these issues.
@@stephenburnage7687 - Fair point. But those are not (and haven't been for a long time) the kind of keels being churned out in huge numbers by manufacturers, and sold to an unsuspecting public, are they?
I have more than 40 year old bronze through hulls on mine, and they're still good as new. But they're hard to find (sold in the U.S.) and expensive.
I rebuilt an old CAL34. Already a strong boat but I added several layers of fiberglass to every joint I could access, on the recommendation of a surveyor. Now it is as stiff as a board. Zero flexing. Gives me a lot of confidence offshore
Hi Stephen. Yes, the only thing that is positive about this situation is that the boat will be stronger when it comes out of the workshop. Cheers, Chris & Tanja
Would you be able to provide the grounding details? (Speed at time of grounding, what was hit, weather, etc). It appears this was a significant event. If this is covered in another video I look for it. Thank you!
The weather conditions were fine, I have the track but I need to find out how I extract the data from the Zeus3 chart plotter for speed. For sure it was a rock they hit, you can see the track on Ep36. No worries, I will do some investigation tonight, I would love to find out also, BR Chris
Do sailers plot their groundings?
I guess most sailors would rather try to foget this as it is usually their mistake and not the fault of the chart. At least up here in Sweden anyways
Hello. Another Brit in Sweden here. Currently planning my escape. And I've decided to do it by boat (just waiting for the kids to get old enough to press the eject on). I'm no sailor, despite spending 18 years living in a house on the sea on Karlsudd. I've only ever got on the sea with my RIB, and was once told what ropes to pull on aboard a friends Mälar 22. So I'm gathering info for the getaway. Just wondering why you bought new boat. Is it because you just never know the history of a used boat and there can be bad things lurking? From experience, I know that besiktningsmän(hän?) for houses are hopeless. Is this the same for second-hand boats? Thanks.
Hello Scott, I can understand why you want to escape, it's so dark at the moment, getting lighter though and looking forward to summer. No worries about not being a sailor, that can all be learned and it's fun doing it too (most of the time). We bought a new boat fo a few different reasons, mostly because we really wanted to pick our own equipment, colours etc, we really liked the feel of the Hanse 388 we sailed and we just fell in love with the idea. In hind sight it would have been nice not to have the massive cost, but we absolutely love our boat and don't have any regrets. I would suggest having a really good look around and most importantly if you go new, make sure you have a really good dealer.
A used boat can of course have things lurking underneath but I would highly recommend that you hire a really good surveyor and they should be able to find most things wrong with the boat. I haven't had much experience with them in Sweden but I can recommend someone if you are looking. I am sure there are other good ones out there too. I hope this helps. BR Chris
@@SailingAurora Thanks Chris. I still have about 3 years before packing the youngest off to college, so I have time to learn something about sailing. Hopefully. We do have a Europa dinghy that my eldest used a lot when she was younger. I figured I can spend this summer being blown on to a few lee shores with that. I might also buy something a bit bigger, but cheap and disposable, to ground and crunch into docks while I learn. Right now, what I think I want in my world cruiser changes daily. Something sleek, modern and sexy (like your boat), or do I want to spend my time floating about inside a fifties radio (most of the blue water boats I see on the web)? One hull or two? A floating apartment would be nice, but I just know that I'll end up getting immersed in the 'driving' bit and want to get all performancy (I have form). Oh well, it's an adventure. Thanks again for the info. Hope you get your machine fixed soon. I'll be popping out onto the water later today. But I'll be walking on it. Bloody country :-)
If production boats tend to ride off shore waves instead of cut through them like a full keel boat, might this action weaken the joins between hull and frame over time? Descriptions by sailors of their production boats slamming or bouncing onto waves makes me wonder about taking production boats offshore. I'd welcome some expert / experienced comments.
Well, sailing the baltic, I have to say is very easy on the boat. We don't sail in heavy weather very ofter, especially between all of the islands. I don't have the experience to comment on this one. I can ask the yard though. Good question.
You make a good point. A key aspect of cruising is that the boat gets constantly worked (flexed, pounded, stretched etc) by wave action. A joint that was good for sitting in the marina or protected waters might not survive months or years of constant working. On the recommendation of a surveyor I have strengthened every joint that I can access, for this reason. Old time sailors used to refer to a "stiff" boat for good reason.
I just found your channel. If you've never seen his channel, Mads (Sail Life) has an amazing channel and he's just about completed a near complete rebuild of a Warrior 38.
Hi and welcome to the channel! Thanks for the tip, we follow Mads as well, he is doing an amazing job. Cheers, Chris & Tanja
Just think how much less work would have been involved in building the boat correctly in the first place
Many would think that if a boat cannot take a grounding, it is not structurally fit for general purpose usage
- shame on the designers and the manufacturer
Good investment? Would you do it again? Also I would replace the front keel bolts at least.
Hi Mark, I would absolutely do it again, minus maybe the chartering. I will see what they decide on but I will ask the question as these bolts took the most beating :)
My boat was done with epoxy and is way stronger than polyester,. Vinylester is better than polyester and most likely what your boat is made of.I would not use polyester its cheap for a reason. I have seen strength tests and epoxy is #1 then vinyl, then poly . Poly is brittle and delaminates
I hope the recently uploaded video gives you a better overview of the repair and a little of the reasons behind the decisions. BR Chris
Install multiple bilge pumps and they can exit into the cockpit. No more holes in hull.
Not a bad idea. That way you get to see that you have a problem.
Could be an idiea, would prefer something more permanent though
Proper keel bolts have the shape of a traditional umbrella handle, or the letter J. You cannot just unscrew them out from the keel.
I'm surprised insurance companies cover boats so poorly manufactured
When cars are built, there are crashtests... boats should be tested as well.
There are some, check out this one from Linjett: th-cam.com/video/TGWjmboWcYc/w-d-xo.html
@@SailingAurora Thank you, Sir :)
In no situation is polyester ever better than epoxy. Epoxy is stiffer, stronger and far less brittle than polyester. Polyester shrinks as it cures putting inherent de-lamination loads on the layup.
When you say stiffer, this is different to tensile strength. Stiffness is deflection and from what I have read and learned Polyester is stiffer than Epoxy making it more suitable to put around keels as you don't want deflection. Epoxy has more tensile strength but in this application Polyester is more than enough. No boats have gone back to plastskador for over 30 years because of a problem with the polyester not being strong enough.
@@SailingAurora Epoxy is stiffer than polyester. It can also endure greater elongation before fracture. Therefore it is also more flexible. It also has far greater chemical as well as mechanical bonding properties. Polyester is very brittle. Strength comes from a resin's ability to support the fibreglass. It does this with adhesion to the fibres. Epoxy adheres better. This is why carbon masts are made with epoxy and not polyester. Epoxy dinghy hulls and canoes are stiffer, stronger, lighter and are less prone to crazing when dinged. There's simply no comparison. Which is why it's more expensive. It also needs to be heat cured for best benefits. Trust me when I say the difference is startling. Buy some and do some tests for yourself. Epoxy needs woven roving rather than chopped strand mat. Mat needs styrene to break down the glue. Epoxy has no styrene which is why shrinkage is minimal. Saying that, there is epoxy compatible mat, not that I'd ever use it.
@@chrisdyer6370 It does sound like you have some good experience on this. One of the reasons they are using Polyester is that it's easy to wet out and it's less finicky than Epoxy, ideally it needs to be laid in the perfect conditions and have a good glass underneath to get the best out of it. Polyester is was more forgiving and in a lot of cases more practical. There are applications for both. You have some points but I think there are some conflicting statements. Coming to your example with the masts. I'm sure they are using epoxy in the mast because it's flexible and stronger, you want the mast to bend and be strong. Polyester is stiffer and has less tensile strength and with a bond that is not as strong. Thats why they are using Crestafix to mitigate this problem. Check this video out also, says the same thing: th-cam.com/video/Xnhz-OLZZa8/w-d-xo.html.
If done correctly Polyester can used, for the application it's more than strong enough. Plastskador haven't seen any boats back because they have seen problems with the strength or brittleness of the Polyester. They have however seen boats that have had repairs done by other companies, that have not been done correctly, even with epoxy and do delaminate.
@@SailingAurora Epoxy is much stiffer than polyester in a like for like layup. It is used in masts because it is stiffer and therefore less can be used. Polyester is more brittle and given the choice I would use epoxy in any situation likely to suffer from shock loading.
I totally agree on the comments on how the stringer is bonded to the hull, but the real problem is about the quality of the adhesive used. Use a polyester/vinyl-ester bonding paste
If you use Bronze (Copper and Tin) they will be the best choice, but expensine. Brass (Copper and Zinc) even when it says corrosion resistant can suffer from de-zincification, which leaves mainly copper, which work hardens and shears. Sam with Brass props
Thanks :) Right now we are looking at True Design composites though. They look good.
@@SailingAurora As long as you are sure you will never be able to stand on them
@@saltybuster946 interesting... they do claim to handle a lot of weight. Research continues....
@@SailingAurora I've seen too many sheered off. Like I say, fine if you can be sure there is no chance of standing on them. I replaced all my skin fittings and sea cocks with tried and tested brass, I sleep well at night ;)
@@saltybuster946 Cheers, sounds like sound advice
It doesn't work it's just cheap
Glad I'm going to buy a steel boat
What of a second pump at different elevation and alarm,and discharge at location above water line
I know exactly what you’re going through, my sailboat was grounded last year by me and is in a workshop in Oxelösund now. Because of the Covid they didn’t let me see it while in repair shop and today the keel was mounted back. Next week they will finish up and the boat is ready for a new season. Because of your video , tomorrow I will be driving there and have a look at my boat, I haven’t seen it in a month and I miss her allot. At least your boat is closer to where you live and you can see the progress .I also live in Stockholm area but driving 250km both ways is not something you can do every day. My boat was repaired in about 2 weeks.
See u on the water and keep making this videos, by the way, good job on editing 😁!
Aww man, sorry you have had to go through this experience also. I hope the visit went well to your boat. I miss our boat even if it's only been a few days. Thanks for the compliment, hope to see you on the water, cheers Chris
The non-production boats just have different problems.
Hi Mike. We don't have any experience on this, but imagine that is the case, pros and cons no matter what you choose. Cheers, Chris & Tanja
Too bad about the boat. I'm in the same predicament on my own. My boat has had a really hard gronding a loong time ago. The problem is that the repair is delaminating.... descoverd this when i started to fix my osmosis problem... so no im considering buying a different boat. It's is an old boat... but im gonna follow your videos with great interest. Best of luck . Regards Jarle
Thanks Jarle, well that really sucks about your boat. When I am exploring at Plastskador and talking with the guys they have shown me a little of repairs that have gone wrong. Not a fun thing. I hope it works out for you. Cheers, Chris
Get plastic seacocks ,I put new bronze ones in 5 years ago and had 2 of them failing already.
Good to know, looking at composite ones also. Lot's to learn. Thanks Johan
I guess it was brass not ! Bronze because they can last for decades!!!
@@resheim1 Nope, They are bronze
Bilge pumps. You absolutely need an upgrade here. That pump is a clearing pump only, i.e. it is designed to get very close to the bottom of the boat to clear the last few gallons. If you are heading offshore my advice is to fit 2 fully independent pumps with separate outlets (T 2 hoses together at least halves the pump output). Arrange the switches so that one comes on a couple of inches higher than the other. The idea is that the first one is the 'working pump' and the second one kicks in when the first one fails, clogs or is overwhelmed. Because the second pump normally stays dry and unused it is more likely to work when you really need it. Also rig a loud alarm to the second pump, if it goes off you know you have an emergency. A good idea, but not essential, is to use the same model for both pumps, that way you only need one spare. When sizing the pumps look at how much water can come in if a sea-cock, rudder seal of prop shaft seal blows. Your pumps need to clear water fast enough in that event for you to make a repair. Personally I would not consider anything less than 2000gal/hour (for each, not total) as a bilge pump on any boat that is going offshore. I have always fitted 4000g/hr and under test these will keep the sump clears if you open a 1.5" sea cock but they will be working close to capacity to do it.
Hi Roland, thanks for the tips. In the later videos you can see that I installed exactly that, I had to run another pipe, which was abit of a pain but got in done. Cheers
You are very good at narrating, keeping it interesting and informative. Well done!
On the subject matter, I am surprised to see that the problem with a delaminating grid structure, is more common than i thought..
Hi there. Thank so much for the kind words. Hopefully this will be the one and only for Aurora. Only good thing about the situation is that she will be stronger when she comes out of the workshop, AND we learned a lot about her on the way. Cheers, Chris & Tanja
Great video Chris. Thank you. About the bonding - who knew. I thought that frame was also laminated in....Just out of interest I checked on the Hallberg Rassy website - they say their frames are also "bonded into the hull" (see here: www.hallberg-rassy.com/resources/how-a-hull-is-built/). Probably better bonding though. Surprised these manufacturers aren't glassing these essential structures in. Anyway very infromative vid.
I expect that a lot of the addition cost in Halbergs overproduction boats is down to their exquisite joinery, but also the high cost of Labour in Sweden.
Bonded into the hull, as in laminated using fiberglass and resins. Versus bonded onto the hull using glue. VERY different.
@@akathesquid5794 Hi sorry Akathe put my reply in a new comment. Seems Hanse also claim to bond and laminate into the hull...
@@IIIIIIPETEIIIIII I can agree on that, definitely with the high labour costs
Awesome, thanks for the link. I hadn't really checked how exactly they were built, someone else mentioned on here they didn't have a grid.... interesting. I just assumed because they were hand built they had laminated stringers because everybody is raving about HR. Great find, I will look into it. Cheers
Isn't Beneteau a French word for Fragile? : )
Beneteau was founded by Benjamin Bénéteau and is French. This Hanse is German built :)
Hanse is the german word for fragile. Or was it Bavaria? 😂
The fishing boat had a y valve in the bilge,it could suck salt water through a throughhull
for washdown or y valve to bilges for sinking,kept us running for hours till we ran the boat aground under the lift at the hall out yard….
Sounds like a good solution, I thnk when/if we leave for an ocean crossing I would like some connection to the engine water pump also
My Nor'sea hull is twice as thick and it's only 27 feet. I had a bad grounding and had to put a little fiberglass bandaid on the leading edge of the encapsulated keel. It was 1/4" deep gouge at the deepest point, but it wasn't even close to penetrating to the lead. I felt extremely sick with myself, but it's nothing like this. I've been through all the new production boats at the boatshow and they are so inferior which is a shame because as you say the same equipment is used, and I'm fine with a cheap interior, but a compromise in hull integrity is unacceptable in my opinion.
I can understand where you are coming from. I think the price competition in production boats has driven some of these decisions/compromises for sure
Hanse also claim to bond AND laminate into the hull: They say: "The huge structural subframe is at the heart of every Hanse and importantly is both bonded and laminated to the hand built hull" (here: www.hanseyachts.co.uk/about/quality---engineering). in an email they sent me (to all owners presumably) they said "A huge structural subframe is both bonded and laminated into the hull, which is then further re-enforced with substantial plates to transmit these loads throughout the hull form. " I have a 418 and so am interested.
I hear you but in the video I don’t see evidence of any tabbing. We recently looked at a Jeanneau, also claimed to use a combination of gluing and tabbing. I could see the tabbing but it looked like one or two layers of glass and unlikely to do serious strengthening. We have a Catalina and the grid is clearly tabbed in with substantial layers of glass. There is also a keel stub so the keel is mounted to a section of let’s say 2.5 cm fiberglass. Of course Catalina’s designer Gerry Douglas claims the issue with European boats is the unforgiving iron keels and he says lead keels absorb a lot of energy In a grounding.
Hi Truman, I thought about this a little. The wording they use suggests that the grid is laminated but it does not state how much. There may be some lamination close to the bulkheads and on the bulkheads themselves but most of the grid is just glued down. I will try and have a look around to see and ask the guys to see if I can find any original glass attached to the grid. Their statement is very misleading but if 1 inch is glassed somewhere, they are not stating anything false. I might be a topic I'll put in the next video, we will see. Cheers
I guess the question is whether the bonding is structurally sound and would laminating save the grid from damage? There would always be a point of ultimate grid/hull failure when run aground hard/often enough in these types of design surely?
Check 'Principles of yacht design' second edition. Lars Larsson and Rolf E Eliason pg. 242 re keel impact and grid delamination.
Surely the key difference between lamination and bonding is that lamination is forever. Can anyone make the same claim about glue?
@@thomastaylor2019 I grounded a 1984 Jeanneau with a lead keel: just a big dent. Yes lead takes energy but it became very expensive lately. Nice would be a lead bulb and a high tensile steel fin.
So how much does this little fix cost to have done?
Hi Circ. Cost will be approx €40k. Cheers, Chris & Tanja
@@SailingAurora Dang, that's like, a third the cost of a new one!! I'm so sorry. Thank you for replying.
The strength of fiberglass is long continuous strands of glass fibers laminated before the chemical reaction has cured.A repair patch stick on is just that a patch.When your hull flexed and popped the glued in grid structure the entire hull flexed and broke the fibers.Marelon fore spar thru hulls are inert and lightning proof along with non corrosive. Amel uses a sea chest for that reason as does feadship
Thanks for the explanation, I really like the sea chest idea with one thru hull to serve many, it's a good idea. Chris
As an engineer (not marine) I will always have concerns about strengthening. It's all well and good to strengthen an area but all you do is transfer load onto the next weakest area. Should another grounding occur you may find that instead of everything bending and deflecting as a single unit, with the result of manageable water ingress. You may end up with excess force applied to a smaller area, with the result of a huge hull tear and vessel loss. Also, I would have gone with epoxy regardless of cost and ease. Epoxy stick's like shit to a blanket to anything and has flexibility.
Hi there, I understand where you are coming from, the guys at Plastskador have repaired boats that have been grounded multiple times, the next damages do move away from the strengthened area but it is highly unlikely they will tear the hull. The hull is extremely tear resistant due to the way that fibreglass is woven. The force of a grounding is transferred upwards and the next damage would extend further out on the grid.
I can also understand that a lot of people want to go the epoxy route and after doing a lot of research I can see why. On the other hand, for this job the correct preparation was done and the right method was used with the experience these guys have, they have repaired 1000's of boats over the years. There are a lot of benefits to using Polyester also, and for this application, especially as its Isophthalic Polyester and not orthophthalic it's a very resistant and strong repair. Cheers, Chris
Do I Love my Steel sailing boat!!! 😜⚓
Thank you for your showing other repairs in your last video....its amazing how much the manufacture's cut cost by using bonding materials in key strength area's...to keep costs down....as they say in many things (TIME IS MONEY) 😠 instead of quality ...😢 and care of the final product....🤔
Hi Bruce. Thank you, glad you liked the video. Yes, you are definitely making some trade off when buying a production boat. Cheers, Chris & Tanja
Wow this is unbelievable, how much work this takes. How much is all of this going to cost??? Great drone shots and content. Keep up the good work.
Thank you Jason. Yes it's really extensive work. The estimated cost is € 40k. Best, Chris & Tanja
I’m not positive but I would bet money on it that it’s not Bondo it’s a bonding agent and those are totally different Bondo does have a little adhesive quality but it’s not a bonding agent like what I believe they use on boats so you should make that clear FYI.
I will try to look into it, thanks
Maybe someone mentioned this in another post, but, have you had the engine brackets holding the motor in place checked? They usually take quite the damage when running aground, just food for thought.
It's one of the fist things the repair guys mentioned. They went through the entire boat looking for damage and the engine mounts were checked, they are fine. Thanks for the tip :)
yeah, thank you for telling us that Swan and similar cost millions for something
Welcome and very true
@@SailingAurora I bought a 1974 Swan 38 having owned an almost new Jeanneau prior. They are absolutely night and day in terms of age and finish quality and strength. I have sacrificed room in my Swan compared to modern boats but her seaworthiness and performance under sail is unquestionable. My Jeanneau never felt stiff enough and always felt skittish by comparison. These older girls like mine are price comparable to newer production boats. I’m curious on what the decision criteria are for different people?
@@Themothershipsailing I think the criteria is the price. Production sailboats allow a lot of people sail
I’m coming from the carbon fibre world where when you bond two pieces of carbon fibre together using Methyl Methacrylate you’re not able to break that seam before you actually crack the cf laminate first. I’m curious to understand what is the bonding material used in boats like Hanse? Methyl Methacrylate should bond equally as well to glass fibre.
I believe you got the it backwards regarding polyester being stiffer, that is not the case. Tensile strength in epoxy is higher than polyester.
Great video. Interesting to see the work carried out by these guys.
Hi there, thanks for the comment. I'm not sure what was originally used by Hanse. I have been doing quite a bit of research on Epoxy and Polyester over the last couple of weeks. These videos have caused quite a stir. As you probably know, tensile strength is the breaking point of a material, I beleive Epoxy excels in this partly because of it's flexibility or deflection. Wheras stiffness is the amount of deflection of the material. Polyester is less flexible. Thanks for the compliment, the repairs are going well so far. BR Chris
After digesting 20% of the comments my intention to build my own cat remains just as sure as before. Great inspiration!
Hi Jason, that's great. I hope you are well on the way to building it
At least two bilge pumps in case one fails. I had three because I like a dry boat too
Hi Chas. Have bought the bigger bilge pump, so we can have it installed now, while she is in the workshop. Maybe a third one... we'll see, but thanks for the tip. Best, Chris & Tanja
@@SailingAurora Little side story. We had a near sinking in our harbour when a piece of discarded fishing line got sucked into and strangled the bilge pump. Thankfully someone noticed how low the boat was sitting in the water before it was too late.
@@SailingAurora There's an old saying... "Two is one, and one is none." Because at sea, things WILL break.
wouldnt buy those.boats.even.if.they.offered.me.one. rather.go older, heavier,.smaller
Fair enough. Each to their own
I couldn't watch more than halfway through the video. Apparently, despite being in a boatyard doing a major rebuilding on a boat only a year old, you have not realized that you have purchased the wrong boat. This has become quite common, people coming into the sport knowing nothing and unwilling to spend the time necessary to learn. Using Bondo as a structural component? Are you nuts? You shoulda bought a Contessa 32 (your first response: "It's too small!" Also the response of a knownothing). An old Hinckley Pilot 35 and having her thoroughly refit would also have been an excellent choice. But I know you won't do that. I only hope your ignorance doesn't kill your wife.
It's not Bondo, go and do some research on ISO polyester, it's a tried and tested method. With all due respect, wrong boat is a matter of opinion, each of us has our own needs, I guess you know yours. Thanks but I am confident in my choice
On that size boat I would have a hydraulic clutch and real pump comming off the engine,saved me on a 40 ft fishing boat,also running masthead lights n and strobe light !! Most deck mounted lights are pointing to the space station or Dave’s jones house as the boat hobbyhorses, Anny swell and your invisible,I woarked on cargo ships,a real masthead lights make you noticeable as soon as you come over the horizon, it makes you real !
Makes a lot of sense and good advice, cheers :)
Very interesting getting into the various build formulas, I own a a custom built low production power yacht 650k for 38' and even though it was a low production there are still items that suprise you. I like that you have pointed out that in general its also true car production up and down a manufacturer line many similar parts. My beef is that many of these parts are lower quality made in china which I understand but not getting the mark up on crap parts.
Bilge pumps - I obsesse as well no water but interestingly I have 6 bilge pumps.
6 bilge pumps, wow! That's awesome, now I can justify the cost more easily to myself. Thanks for sharing
@@SailingAurora I use a dry bilge system from seaflo price varies 180-300 gets everything out - everything
I'm work in Hanse 6 years😉😎
Self help video ? The odds of a huge leak ? Normally extremely rare of course with your record, maybe. Of course you run that pump dry likely bring a spare.
And what record would that be?
those early sailboats from the 1960s where built strong enough that grounding is not an issue , weight is
Good point
All that you say in the video is fine. What I think is wrong is to think that all the production boats are the same. You made an error in the beginning; you chose a Hanse. Once there where many charter company to use Hanse because the boats are beautiful and big and very cheap, but today very few of them does. The Hanse yachts give so many problems that the charter company prefer to buy something else even if they have to pay it more. Instead to repair your boat, perhaps it was better to change it.
Interesting to know, I haven't heard the same feedback though
Thanks for the videos guys. My heart bleeds for you watching this. Also seen the Expedition Evans ones recently. My father had a Beneteau Oceanis 54 which was in charter in Turkey and had it grounded. Was very painful to see back then too. Im sure it will be built back stronger if you get it all epoxy glassed back in rather than bonded.(Dont know why they still do that tbh after seeing Cheeki Rafiki...but at least you have a nice large keel bolt plate in there.) I have a Jeanneau 349 with swing keel. Comes with its own challenges. I hope if (and probably when) I ground it the keel swings back like its supposed to. Only held on with 4 bolts (2 each side) through a threaded transverse keel swing shaft. All the best. Fair winds. David
Thanks for the comment, always nice to hear what other people are going through aswell. The expedition Evans one has been really interesting to follow, can't say I agree with everything they did, but they did an awesome job. A grounding is always painful. Cheers, Chris
Great video, thanks for the insights. If I may suggest for the next time you work on the grid, consider to fill it up with expanding PU foam to increase tension within the structure or to lay down a paper honeycomb and spray on the resin with chopped fibre. In any case please try to work with resins on room temperature around 20 C. All the best 😎