Man, just finished watching a PrintShootRepeat vid, it’d be awesome to see the two of you do a collaboration 🤙🏽 the both of you have been my go to for anything print pew related.
Great information. Definitely under rated channel. Have you tried overtures nylon? Supposedly fairly easy to print with but I imagine it's not pure for that reason so it's strength would be the deciding factor IMO.
Outstanding work with this. I would still love to see a comparison like this of regular, glass filled, and carbon fiber nylon, given that glass-filled nylon of some variety is used in almost all commercial polymer-framed frames/lowers. But this test does seem to be pretty informative. Looking forward to when you get your impact tester running. That'll be even more helpful in determining what might work best for printed pews.
Definitely need to get an impact tester running! Remember that glass filled nylon that is injection molded and glass filled nylon that has been 3D printed are two different animals! Once I get a proper test set up I'll definitely test them though.
@@wanderingcalamity360 I'm sure they would perform better after remelting / annealing. The problem with any 3D printed fiber filled plastic is the fibers are very short. With injection molding they are able to use mush longer fibers. That's why continuous fiber printing is so interesting, of course it does not help with the layer adhesion.
I like the semi-technical graphs. I'm doing a lot of this for my engineering classes and you are getting great data with what you have. I'll admit it is nicer to do this with purpose built testing machines in the $40,000 range but keep it up.
I know nothing about 3d printing, materials or manufacturing in general, not sure how i got here. Learned a lot here, seems like your testing methods are pretty sound. Nice work!
I would love to see you do testing and a practical print with remelted parts like shown by Free Spirit 1. this can be done with PETG and if done correctly, fuses the layers together.
And in the case of PLA creates a crystal like structure that increases its thermal resistance significantly. Which is the main detriment of PLA and pew pew uses.
Hmm I got cf abs, cf pla,cf pc and cf petg also have a few stl's and multiple printers... thanks for this info, I gotta get slicing now. Gave me some ideas of what to use them for. I also have some pc blend as well. You ever use abs for lowers?
Not very high ;) It's basically ABS, a very weak plastic with only one positive, it can be solvent welded. Which is nice for some things, not lowers though.
Great video. I'm not into printing firearms but I do a lot of mechanical testing and analysis. I really like your motorized tensile test. You could also take a look at my 3d printable 3-point bending test which can be used to determine the materials bending modulus to compare the stiffness. Usually CF filled filaments are way stiffer, especially when it comes to PETG.
Great video and very informative. But I was partly left with more questions than answers. Let’s say I’m going to 3d print a drone what would be the best choice of material for it overall?
I am actually 3D printing a quad. In fact I already printed the first version ;) CF Nylon or PLA+ are going to be the best options. I'm using PLA+ because it will not clog the fine 0.25 MM nozzles.
Thanks for a great video. I have mostly got good results with PLA. Problems sometimes arise when my constructions are exposed to heat and UV radiation, ie outdoor use. How is Carbon-Nylon in terms of heat and UV?
Old comment, but nylon is very good with heat. Has a heart deflection near 150c, it's one of the best consumer materials we have when it comes to heat resistance.
Excellent video! Thank you! currently testing polycarbonate with carbon fibers and the look and feel is certainly great, I'm not sure the inter-layer adhesion is as good as PLA - definitely not better. But: The carbon fiber PC is less brittle and my samples did not break to shreds like my PLA sample did.
@@maynarddrivesfast804 I've note done a video yet, but I did test some CF PC, it was strong, but the layer adhesion was low and impact resistance was not that that great.
Great video. lots of good information. One point I have to disagree with; Temperature and strength are not completely different topics. They are actually dependent on each other and one material could be stronger at a lower temp. but another material may be stronger at a different temp. They are very interdependent.
Not quite. PLA is strong, but lacks impact resistants. PLA+ is a better option. Nylon would be better, if you can manage to print with it. Which is not easy to do without a real heated chamber. That's why I now recommend 3D870 PLA. It's a good balance between strength, temperature resistance, and easy printing.
It think you had a good conclusion, but I think you completely missed the factor of high temperature stiffness, which could be very important for many of us. CF definitely helps there, and also the type of base material choice is way more important, for example a good use case for CF nylon, PC CF etc.
On the topic of carbon fiber nylon I agree for the most part about using another suitable cheaper material if applicable but I believe the benefit behind such a material is that you can ideally get the right amount of resistance nylon provides with the rigidity needed from the carbon fiber for your application. Plus it has killer heat resistance properties. I will add that I found a very awesome side effect to this mixture. I printed some car parts with "CarbonX: filament and wanted to test it's heat resistance. I hit it with a heat gun to see how it would hold up and after a few minutes under the heat gun the print eventually started melting but the cool part is that the print did not warp before melting like many other filaments do. I was able to use this finding in my final prints by heat welded the layers together which gave me a very strong part that with stood a few accidental drops on my concrete garage floor as well as months bolted up to me cars engine without issue. I made velocity stacks for ITBs if anyone's curious. Now that being said absolutely no scientific testing done to my print to give strength and durability results. That would be an awesome experiment you could do for all of us to see? CarbonX nylon heat welded.
Would be something interesting to try! I've done a lot more testing since this video, and I can say that Carbon Fiber Nylons are the best all around good option.
@@HoffmanTactical awesome I can’t wait to see more as im super interesting in how different filaments behave in this application. I recently subbed so I’ve got a back log of your videos just waiting to be watched =D
When it comes to 3d printer filaments with carbon fibers majority of the time it isn't for strength but to improve printing properties. Some performance filaments well above 350C printing temperature use carbon fibers just so they can be successfully and reliably printed.
@@MobileAura I'm mainly referring to materials like PEEK, ULTEM, PEI, etc. where the materials are so iffy to 3d print and strong the addition of fibers is almost entirely so you can reliably get successful repeatable prints. I'm specifically writing about 3d printing materials that are very strong and adding fibers wouldn't have very noticeable benefits to strength or elasticity. Obviously in a nylon filament for example fibers have benefits to material properties and printing properties.
Plastic Annealing? How would you re harden the materials after you annealed them? Metal annealing is a thing I use all the time. I have read a lot about plastic annealing yet I think whoever started using the term in plastics did not really understand the process of annealing. RE Crystallization through heating is not the same as annealing in metals. At least on its face. When you anneal metal you soften it so it can be shaped and when you are finished shaping you re harden the steal through heating and cooling. While you get plastics hot to shape them there is no process to re harden the material besides letting the plastic set up. How did the term annealing get put into the plastics world and why does it mean a different thing in this industry vs the metal working industry?
Using plaster of Paris covering the model completely or in salt and put in the over is what I have herd from another TH-cam haven’t tried it yet but it’s worth a try I think the temperature has to be hotter than what you were extruding
@Ethan I'd doubt it would heat the parts equally inside and out. It would probably create a coating where the outside layers bond better, creating a exoskeleton.
@@jesusoftheapes It is the same process of heating to the glass transition temperature for stress relief and recrystallization, therefore the same name. In your case you are also adding the process of tempering, but tempering is not part of annealing.
It does wear out the brass but no wear nearly as fast as it is reputed to... I printed a whole roll of Carbon fiber pla and at the very end is when I noticed wear... Still the steel is better...
If CF nylon isn't ideal why are you using it in your Orca? Genuinely curious, I am sure you have a reason. Am currently deciding on which material to make 9ne of your Orcas out of!
It not ideal, but better then most other options. This video was before I was using CF Nylon. Nylon benefits a lot from carbon fiber, compared to PLA or PC.
Dude... I'm researching a material to use to 3d print an amphibious airplane... Ya, and Thank God I'm a Crazy test pilot But what material would you recommend to use for an airplane? And No Worries, its on my head..
Like a full size plane? You would need a big printer. But I think something like carbon fiber nylon would be a good option, because it is light and strong.
No Clue on any of this, but I did work in industrial epoxies for a bit. We use to cure molds under pressure at 5x-10x atmosphere... Is that a thing in 3D printing??
Autoclaving is more of a thing for composite materials. It improves your fiber density, improves fiber wetting, reduces air bubbles, and improves dimensional accuracy. It wouldn't have the same effect on single-material plastic extrusion techniques.
Have you tried glass fiber nylon? The carbon fiber nylon is surprisingly brittle and I’m not a huge fan of it either, but I’ve had great success with glass fiber nylon so far
I just bought a roll of NylonX and NylonG from Matter Hackers. We will see how they hold up to the new impact tester I am putting together ;) I don't think Matter Hackers is the best though, what GF Nylon are you using?
You can print with continuous carbon fiber reinforcement strands with dual nozzles. I think Cura ultimatker has that ability as well as Markforged. It would be an insanely tough and lightweight lower. But it would cost way more then a nice aluminum lower from a gun shop. Carbon fiber is not cheap
@@HoffmanTactical very very cool! I love polymer lowers. I have had pin drift on many I've used though. i just started buying complete trigger groups to alleviate the problem I have always wanted to add bushings but in 80% poly lowers you are dealing with such thin walls I have yet to be brave enough to try to add them. My 3d printer is basically useless. I bought a kit printer and put it together and needs much modification. However on the day I see you come out with the perfect lower. I will be investing in the most capable printer for that task the same day. You are doing great work and I think it will become valuable when you have better core materials as they become available. Nasa and the US military has developed polymers filaments that are insanely strong still easy to print. Some say that they are as strong as carbon steel. I have heard about that tech for a few years now but have yet to see any of it. Who knows when or if that fun stuff gets out to the public I am guessing you will have a nice place in all this when that happens. I would buy one of those stocks you made that look like the FG 42 .
Good comparison video! Good info in this one - so how about possibly printing a different filament for the buffer portion of the lower (to allow for the removal of the hose clamp). Since I know I was the one making the big push for using a CF filament. I'm only saying - I want to be able to print a lower that is strong and can hold up to a heck of a beating without requiring a hose clamp. And youre doing an awesome job of being unbiased and taking a strictly scientific look at this.
Now I mean, not that it's necessarily feasible for everyone but I'm sure if you were to potentially utilize something like MarkForge is producing - they have a continuous Carbon fiber filament (not the powder like most filaments have).
Also, just wanted to leave this here - guess the hose clamp isn't even needed after all - so long as you're not going to be doing any push-ups on it... th-cam.com/video/GBC-y8AFXBo/w-d-xo.html
Most of my older designs did not use any hose clamp, but I did not feel they where strong enough to trust in a high risk environment. Check out some of my older videos and you will see what I mean. The hose clamp is there because I want this to be a practical lower, not just a plinker ;) I have a couple ideas for a new non reinforced lower, and will be working on that sometime. But it still won't be as strong as the super lower!
@@HoffmanTactical Would you recommend PET-CF over CF Nylon? From the research I've done, it seems PETG-CF and PET-CF are easier to print than CF Nylon.
With the CF filament i go with a .12 layer height and run the noz i bit hotter than i would with regular pla depending on the day/print 225-230 i also print slllllow @ 40mm/s, and 5% fan after first 5 layers. Takes 3 days to print a uh, well, you know, but it is worth it. Also feed at 105% Im no pro but trial and error has gotten great results now.
CF Nylon is definitely better then CF PETG! I've got a roll on the way. In this video I was only trying to see how the CF effected the strength compared to the same plastic without CF.
I'm with all of the folks surprised at the better layer adhesion. Makes it seem like they must need different print settings due to heat spread in the CF. Or maybe it's just a lot-to-lot variation in the spools. I did order a resin printer. Chasing that layer adhesion,.....
its probably due to less warping from the addition of fibers. Any fiber filled filament will have reduced warp, not so much more strength unless the fibers are long for tensils reinforcement.
Remelting is the right term. Annealing is but lower temp and does not melt the plastic. The problem with remelting is features like the take down retention pin holes will not form properly.
@@HoffmanTactical even encased in plaster? just so we're talking about the same thing it's the method where you print your file as per usual, and encase in plaster so it retains the shape while the plastic goes completely liquid
@@ravener96 Even with plaster, it's pretty tricky getting all the nooks and cranny's filled. A vacuum chamber will really help with this of course. My thought on the matter is that while going through all the trouble to remelt the part, it's not much more trouble to do an aluminum investment casting. But if it's something you'd like to pursue, check out the videos CNC Kitchen did on remelting. It think he covered the salt packing method as well.
@@HoffmanTactical all i know about it is from the cnc kitchen video. it seems to be much much simpler than aluminium casting, the plaster remelt method doesent require a furnace and cna essentially be done with a bucket, a bag of plaster and an oven. im sure there needs to be more research though, it seems unnessecary to immerse the part in a block of plaster vs dipping to coat it in sequential layers, so there isnt so much plaster to insulate. also it seems PLA works poorly with the method, so it might be the polycarbonates time to shine or some other fancy filament.
@@HoffmanTactical Cool, thanks for getting back to me. I've been using the iron around areas like receiver/FCG pin holes, but haven't put enough rounds downrange to know if it's helping or not.
Yes. All of the pending orders shipped out Tuesday. You should have received a shipping confirmation. If not, shoot me an email with your order # and I'll get you the tracking info. tim(at)hoffmantactical.com
PC is good stuff. The blend I use works really well, but it does warp a little, so while it works it's not the best. It's great for smaller parts. Printing big stuff like the LR-308 lower it's more problematic though.
Carbon Fiber can be added to any plastic, so it really depends what type you are printing. I think that CF Nylon is better then PC for most gun parts, but some PC blends could be better for some parts. There is a lot of variability!
I've been thinking about that. I'll probably do a test by leaving a bunch of samples outside for a couple months and see how much they degrade compared to refence samples stored under optimal conditions.
I built the tensile testing machine. I have found that CF can have negative effects on impact resistance in many cases. Another reason that CF is not more common is that it's used mostly in conjunction with plastics that are not necessarily the best. Like PLA, Nylon and PETG. A CF PLA+ or CF PCTG would be awesome. PLA+ and PCTG have the most impact resistance out of all the filaments.
Anyone know the impact/chipping characteristics of CF? I want to make a CF face shield (to protect from shrapnel and Spalding) and put it with my ballistic bump helmet
It becomes pretty brittle. It definitely has less impact resistance than the non-carbon filament. I don't think it's a good choice for your application. You want something that can absorb impact, like plain nylon. CF filaments almost feel like a ceramic, they sound like clay if you drop them on the table. Very brittle.
@@HoffmanTactical ive printed some glock mags lowers and one of your super lowers in the COOBEAN brand carbon fiber PLA and with some basic tests using my hands it seems to yeild quite a bit especially for horizontally printed parts
Dude, thanks for doing this! We've been told over and over that CF is actually weaker than sans CF, all else being equal. This seems to challenge that conclusion for sure. I would also add that CF filaments have much higher definition. I print lots of fine threads, and since starting to experiment with CF I've been able to stop offsetting my thread faces and simply use the looser thread class profiles in Fusion. Which should hypothetically also make the threads stronger just because there's more material there, and more surface area.
@@HoffmanTactical I'm really looking forward to your impact testing on CFPETG. Regular PETG has a tendency to break with impact, so my theory is CF may actually improve that property of PETG. CFPETG is my new favorite material to print with so I have high hopes. If it even gets close to PLA+, and maintains it's higher heat resistance, it could be a winner.
@@Snaaky005 In my testing it did, but still not the best. The CF-PET has performed much better. I'm not yet sure the significant difference between PET and PETG, but the PET certainly appears to have much better impact properties.
I imagine petg is stronger than pla, but js you should see my carbon fiber pla prints. They come out so smooth, they do have layer lines but you can barely see them and it creates a really nice looking finish. I just wish it was more heat resistant. Next I'm going to buy the CF PETG and try that out because there are some weapon accessories I would like to print :)
Carbon Fiber does print Beautifully! However, PLA+ is much stronger then PETG. The biggest problem with PETG, and why I no longer use it, is it has very low impact resistance.
Did your website get shutdown ??
Yes. I knew it was coming and It finely happened. I'm working on moving over to another provider now.
@@HoffmanTactical Damn I just stumbled upon you 308 lower vid and just went to check it out! Hope your dogs are ok!!
@@kennebearsarms So far the dogs are fine! It's our hosting service that shut the site down.
@@HoffmanTactical I was just about to purchase a reinforcement kit. Hope you find a new provider soon.
@@HoffmanTactical I was looking for your site. Hope its resolved soon.
I'm enjoying this series of materials testing.
Keep up the good work!
Video is easy to follow easy to understand for someone just getting into 3d printing great job man keep up the work love from the north!
Love this guy and love his energy and love his work and love his attitude and keep it up.
You’re doing great work Hoffman Tactical! Thank you!
Your videos are great man. Keep it up!
Love the work you’re doing man. Love from NYC
Fantastic run down! Thanks a ton for this excellent review and testing!
Very useful data for my electronics prototyping especially for my Ebike battery holder ! A massive thank you.
Man, just finished watching a PrintShootRepeat vid, it’d be awesome to see the two of you do a collaboration 🤙🏽 the both of you have been my go to for anything print pew related.
As a printer NewB, this was extremely clear and concise, and demonstrated in a way I could see for myself. Appreciate it!
Just thought I would drop you a comment, you are making some damn good content, very analytical and fact tested, much kudos to you :)
Really do appreciate everything you're doing for this community. Keep doing what you do man
Great video and information, thank you!
Always great work 👍🏽👍🏽
Great information. Definitely under rated channel. Have you tried overtures nylon? Supposedly fairly easy to print with but I imagine it's not pure for that reason so it's strength would be the deciding factor IMO.
I have not tried Overture yet, but it's definitely on the list.
Great video man
Outstanding work with this.
I would still love to see a comparison like this of regular, glass filled, and carbon fiber nylon, given that glass-filled nylon of some variety is used in almost all commercial polymer-framed frames/lowers.
But this test does seem to be pretty informative.
Looking forward to when you get your impact tester running.
That'll be even more helpful in determining what might work best for printed pews.
Definitely need to get an impact tester running! Remember that glass filled nylon that is injection molded and glass filled nylon that has been 3D printed are two different animals! Once I get a proper test set up I'll definitely test them though.
@@HoffmanTactical
Yeah, unfortunately.
Though I also wonder how doing a cast annealing might change how printed GFN performs.
@@wanderingcalamity360 I'm sure they would perform better after remelting / annealing. The problem with any 3D printed fiber filled plastic is the fibers are very short. With injection molding they are able to use mush longer fibers. That's why continuous fiber printing is so interesting, of course it does not help with the layer adhesion.
@@HoffmanTactical
Agreed.
Great review, jumping in one some new carbon filament on my CR10. Going to upgrade to the steel nozzle and give it a go.
I like the semi-technical graphs. I'm doing a lot of this for my engineering classes and you are getting great data with what you have. I'll admit it is nicer to do this with purpose built testing machines in the $40,000 range but keep it up.
I bet 40K gets you some nice equipment!
People with the 40k machines don't make TH-cam videos. 🤷
@@_nom_ they do :)
Thanks for sharing this video & info. Great review
I know nothing about 3d printing, materials or manufacturing in general, not sure how i got here. Learned a lot here, seems like your testing methods are pretty sound. Nice work!
I would love to see you do testing and a practical print with remelted parts like shown by Free Spirit 1. this can be done with PETG and if done correctly, fuses the layers together.
And in the case of PLA creates a crystal like structure that increases its thermal resistance significantly. Which is the main detriment of PLA and pew pew uses.
This channel is def gonna have a million subs someday.
You are the hero we need
Good info my dude, nicely done. I would definitely say an impact/energy tester would be a good investment for your work
I've since built an impact tester, definitely very helpful!
DUDE, you're one wicked kid, seriously. Wish my parents were as supportive as yours are
I really appreciate the data.
Hmm I got cf abs, cf pla,cf pc and cf petg also have a few stl's and multiple printers... thanks for this info, I gotta get slicing now. Gave me some ideas of what to use them for.
I also have some pc blend as well.
You ever use abs for lowers?
wonderful and thanks very well explained!
Excellent data impressive apparatus thank you.
Thanks, I just bought paramount petg cf, good test charts.
Good video Hoffman! What's your opinion on ASA for printing lowers and such?
Not very high ;) It's basically ABS, a very weak plastic with only one positive, it can be solvent welded. Which is nice for some things, not lowers though.
Great video!
Great video. I'm not into printing firearms but I do a lot of mechanical testing and analysis. I really like your motorized tensile test. You could also take a look at my 3d printable 3-point bending test which can be used to determine the materials bending modulus to compare the stiffness. Usually CF filled filaments are way stiffer, especially when it comes to PETG.
Yes, stiffness is the main reason for adding fibers.
Great video and very informative. But I was partly left with more questions than answers. Let’s say I’m going to 3d print a drone what would be the best choice of material for it overall?
I am actually 3D printing a quad. In fact I already printed the first version ;) CF Nylon or PLA+ are going to be the best options. I'm using PLA+ because it will not clog the fine 0.25 MM nozzles.
@@HoffmanTactical Awesome thank you so much man! Hopefully your quad turns out good👍
Seems like pla+ works good for me for frames. But I’m interested in trying carbon fiber for magazines.
Not only like and subscribe but comment as well. It helps defeat the algorithm
Great video as usual!! Thank you sir!
Will you let us know who your web provider was after you get up and running again?
CF Nylon core wrapped in Nylon is an option, yes? For rigidity, but to also retain some of that shock resistance? Works well on Glock lowers, anyway..
Thanks for a great video. I have mostly got good results with PLA.
Problems sometimes arise when my constructions are exposed to heat and UV radiation, ie outdoor use.
How is Carbon-Nylon in terms of heat and UV?
I too am curious about this.
@@maynarddrivesfast804 any idea?
Old comment, but nylon is very good with heat. Has a heart deflection near 150c, it's one of the best consumer materials we have when it comes to heat resistance.
@@geometerfpv2804 Thanks for the input
I was thinking to use cf petg for a lower to help with dealing with higher temperatures in general. Petg is the best option i have at the moment.
Excellent video! Thank you! currently testing polycarbonate with carbon fibers and the look and feel is certainly great, I'm not sure the inter-layer adhesion is as good as PLA - definitely not better. But: The carbon fiber PC is less brittle and my samples did not break to shreds like my PLA sample did.
I think it could have potential. Still got to test the stuff I get!
@@HoffmanTactical Any update on the testing of carbon fiber PC?
@@maynarddrivesfast804 I've note done a video yet, but I did test some CF PC, it was strong, but the layer adhesion was low and impact resistance was not that that great.
What about glass filled PLA? Have not seen any testing done with it but I'm still starting to use it
Great video. lots of good information. One point I have to disagree with; Temperature and strength are not completely different topics. They are actually dependent on each other and one material could be stronger at a lower temp. but another material may be stronger at a different temp. They are very interdependent.
Excellent info! So, PLA is king? Not Nylon or other "exotics" for lowers?
Not quite. PLA is strong, but lacks impact resistants. PLA+ is a better option. Nylon would be better, if you can manage to print with it. Which is not easy to do without a real heated chamber. That's why I now recommend 3D870 PLA. It's a good balance between strength, temperature resistance, and easy printing.
It think you had a good conclusion, but I think you completely missed the factor of high temperature stiffness, which could be very important for many of us. CF definitely helps there, and also the type of base material choice is way more important, for example a good use case for CF nylon, PC CF etc.
Just askin', hope there is news soon on your new provider.
What’s the best filament for 3D printing 12 gauge tripwire alarms
On the topic of carbon fiber nylon I agree for the most part about using another suitable cheaper material if applicable but I believe the benefit behind such a material is that you can ideally get the right amount of resistance nylon provides with the rigidity needed from the carbon fiber for your application. Plus it has killer heat resistance properties.
I will add that I found a very awesome side effect to this mixture. I printed some car parts with "CarbonX: filament and wanted to test it's heat resistance. I hit it with a heat gun to see how it would hold up and after a few minutes under the heat gun the print eventually started melting but the cool part is that the print did not warp before melting like many other filaments do. I was able to use this finding in my final prints by heat welded the layers together which gave me a very strong part that with stood a few accidental drops on my concrete garage floor as well as months bolted up to me cars engine without issue. I made velocity stacks for ITBs if anyone's curious.
Now that being said absolutely no scientific testing done to my print to give strength and durability results. That would be an awesome experiment you could do for all of us to see? CarbonX nylon heat welded.
Would be something interesting to try! I've done a lot more testing since this video, and I can say that Carbon Fiber Nylons are the best all around good option.
@@HoffmanTactical awesome I can’t wait to see more as im super interesting in how different filaments behave in this application. I recently subbed so I’ve got a back log of your videos just waiting to be watched =D
When it comes to 3d printer filaments with carbon fibers majority of the time it isn't for strength but to improve printing properties. Some performance filaments well above 350C printing temperature use carbon fibers just so they can be successfully and reliably printed.
I think that has a lot to do with it.
This is false, it has absolutely everything to do with the terminal elasticity peak of the fiber.
@@MobileAura I'm mainly referring to materials like PEEK, ULTEM, PEI, etc. where the materials are so iffy to 3d print and strong the addition of fibers is almost entirely so you can reliably get successful repeatable prints. I'm specifically writing about 3d printing materials that are very strong and adding fibers wouldn't have very noticeable benefits to strength or elasticity. Obviously in a nylon filament for example fibers have benefits to material properties and printing properties.
@@GENcELL2014 This is correct. I agree.
Should try Annealing the Parts and test those results.
Plastic Annealing? How would you re harden the materials after you annealed them? Metal annealing is a thing I use all the time. I have read a lot about plastic annealing yet I think whoever started using the term in plastics did not really understand the process of annealing. RE Crystallization through heating is not the same as annealing in metals. At least on its face. When you anneal metal you soften it so it can be shaped and when you are finished shaping you re harden the steal through heating and cooling. While you get plastics hot to shape them there is no process to re harden the material besides letting the plastic set up. How did the term annealing get put into the plastics world and why does it mean a different thing in this industry vs the metal working industry?
Using plaster of Paris covering the model completely or in salt and put in the over is what I have herd from another TH-cam haven’t tried it yet but it’s worth a try I think the temperature has to be hotter than what you were extruding
It’s more about layer adhesion making layers come together better I guess….worth looking into
@Ethan I'd doubt it would heat the parts equally inside and out. It would probably create a coating where the outside layers bond better, creating a exoskeleton.
@@jesusoftheapes It is the same process of heating to the glass transition temperature for stress relief and recrystallization, therefore the same name.
In your case you are also adding the process of tempering, but tempering is not part of annealing.
It's amazing how much input you have with what little testing you've done. Go back and try again kid.
It does wear out the brass but no wear nearly as fast as it is reputed to... I printed a whole roll of Carbon fiber pla and at the very end is when I noticed wear... Still the steel is better...
Not being able to leave a 3D print in a hot car makes me weary. Do you think annealing 3D870 would help prevent hot car damage?
It would definitely help. It's stays stiffer to a higher temp then most PLA's would. I should run some "Trunk Tests" to see though ;)
If CF nylon isn't ideal why are you using it in your Orca? Genuinely curious, I am sure you have a reason. Am currently deciding on which material to make 9ne of your Orcas out of!
It not ideal, but better then most other options. This video was before I was using CF Nylon. Nylon benefits a lot from carbon fiber, compared to PLA or PC.
Dude... I'm researching a material to use to 3d print an amphibious airplane... Ya, and Thank God I'm a Crazy test pilot But what material would you recommend to use for an airplane?
And No Worries, its on my head..
Like a full size plane? You would need a big printer. But I think something like carbon fiber nylon would be a good option, because it is light and strong.
What about baking or annealing to get the layers to melt or bond together better to make the frames stronger
Did you ever try Esun eSteel Filament?
You rock
Have you tried clear PCTG filament?
I'm interested to see performance with temperature extremes. Cold extreme to be specific.
No Clue on any of this, but I did work in industrial epoxies for a bit. We use to cure molds under pressure at 5x-10x atmosphere... Is that a thing in 3D printing??
Autoclaving is more of a thing for composite materials. It improves your fiber density, improves fiber wetting, reduces air bubbles, and improves dimensional accuracy. It wouldn't have the same effect on single-material plastic extrusion techniques.
@@MO-zu9xq Ahhh... Appreciate the insight
Have you tried glass fiber nylon? The carbon fiber nylon is surprisingly brittle and I’m not a huge fan of it either, but I’ve had great success with glass fiber nylon so far
I just bought a roll of NylonX and NylonG from Matter Hackers. We will see how they hold up to the new impact tester I am putting together ;) I don't think Matter Hackers is the best though, what GF Nylon are you using?
@@HoffmanTactical agreed MH is poor quality for a high price, I use polymaker!
You can print with continuous carbon fiber reinforcement strands with dual nozzles. I think Cura ultimatker has that ability as well as Markforged. It would be an insanely tough and lightweight lower. But it would cost way more then a nice aluminum lower from a gun shop. Carbon fiber is not cheap
Do you use the dog bone locking pins for your trigger groups? How do you keep your pin holes from becoming misshapen ?
I use custom brass bushings. They distribute the load so that there is very little force on the plastic.
@@HoffmanTactical very very cool! I love polymer lowers. I have had pin drift on many I've used though. i just started buying complete trigger groups to alleviate the problem I have always wanted to add bushings but in 80% poly lowers you are dealing with such thin walls I have yet to be brave enough to try to add them.
My 3d printer is basically useless. I bought a kit printer and put it together and needs much modification. However on the day I see you come out with the perfect lower. I will be investing in the most capable printer for that task the same day. You are doing great work and I think it will become valuable when you have better core materials as they become available. Nasa and the US military has developed polymers filaments that are insanely strong still easy to print. Some say that they are as strong as carbon steel. I have heard about that tech for a few years now but have yet to see any of it. Who knows when or if that fun stuff gets out to the public I am guessing you will have a nice place in all this when that happens.
I would buy one of those stocks you made that look like the FG 42 .
@@HoffmanTactical Can you share more info about the custom brass locking pins? Are they available to purchase? Thanks for your help.
@@erichandyauto They are just bushings, I sell them in the reinforcement kit for the super lower. Nothing fancy really!
Good comparison video! Good info in this one - so how about possibly printing a different filament for the buffer portion of the lower (to allow for the removal of the hose clamp). Since I know I was the one making the big push for using a CF filament. I'm only saying - I want to be able to print a lower that is strong and can hold up to a heck of a beating without requiring a hose clamp. And youre doing an awesome job of being unbiased and taking a strictly scientific look at this.
Now I mean, not that it's necessarily feasible for everyone but I'm sure if you were to potentially utilize something like MarkForge is producing - they have a continuous Carbon fiber filament (not the powder like most filaments have).
I mean - has anyone on here been able to print any lower design without requiring a hose clamp for the buffer?
@hoffman tactical
Also, just wanted to leave this here - guess the hose clamp isn't even needed after all - so long as you're not going to be doing any push-ups on it... th-cam.com/video/GBC-y8AFXBo/w-d-xo.html
Most of my older designs did not use any hose clamp, but I did not feel they where strong enough to trust in a high risk environment. Check out some of my older videos and you will see what I mean. The hose clamp is there because I want this to be a practical lower, not just a plinker ;) I have a couple ideas for a new non reinforced lower, and will be working on that sometime. But it still won't be as strong as the super lower!
can you do a test to see how much ecnlosure tmperature affects strength? specially for ABS. start from none to passive to a hairdrier 70c enclosure!
I might try this! Though not with ABS though, that would be a wast of time. The stuff is too weak. 6 KPSI on a good day! I may try with PC though.
What is your opinion on using CF PETG for an AR lower?
Not very good. The PET-CF from Bambu has been though.
@@HoffmanTactical Would you recommend PET-CF over CF Nylon? From the research I've done, it seems PETG-CF and PET-CF are easier to print than CF Nylon.
@@italiano0317 PET-CF is easier to print, no warping. Just don't mix it up with PETG-CF ;)
@@HoffmanTactical I see. Thanks for your opinion. Your videos are a joy to watch and very informative also. Keep it up!
Have you looked at glass filled filaments? It would be interesting to see how a filament comparable to zytel performs...
I am also wonder about GF filaments. I wonder how they compare to CF filled ones.
From my understanding GF prints like CF but it's more flexible and less brittle. I've been thinking about testing with GF30-PA6
@@HoffmanTactical I was about to ask, if your going to test Glass Fiber Reinforced plastics.
@@cafenightster4548 I just got a roll of Nylon X and Nylon G from Matter Hackers. I don't think theirs is the best, but will see how it it performs.
@@rybred007 Yeah I was looking at 3DXTECH's PA6-GF30 which oddly comes in FDE!
With the CF filament i go with a .12 layer height and run the noz i bit hotter than i would with regular pla depending on the day/print 225-230 i also print slllllow @ 40mm/s, and 5% fan after first 5 layers. Takes 3 days to print a uh, well, you know, but it is worth it. Also feed at 105%
Im no pro but trial and error has gotten great results now.
I run the same temp and speed with all my PLA prints as well ;)
Did you also tested CF Nylon? heard it's better than CF PETG.
CF Nylon is definitely better then CF PETG! I've got a roll on the way. In this video I was only trying to see how the CF effected the strength compared to the same plastic without CF.
The man among men is back gentlemen with even more critical info. 👌 doin God’s work. 🇺🇸
Truly a legend 🙌
He sure is.
I'm with all of the folks surprised at the better layer adhesion. Makes it seem like they must need different print settings due to heat spread in the CF. Or maybe it's just a lot-to-lot variation in the spools.
I did order a resin printer. Chasing that layer adhesion,.....
its probably due to less warping from the addition of fibers. Any fiber filled filament will have reduced warp, not so much more strength unless the fibers are long for tensils reinforcement.
Can u test nylon carbon fiber and nylon glass finder filaments in the future
Yes.
I hope you test out plaster annealing, or remelting as it should really be called
Remelting is the right term. Annealing is but lower temp and does not melt the plastic. The problem with remelting is features like the take down retention pin holes will not form properly.
@@HoffmanTactical even encased in plaster? just so we're talking about the same thing it's the method where you print your file as per usual, and encase in plaster so it retains the shape while the plastic goes completely liquid
@@ravener96 Even with plaster, it's pretty tricky getting all the nooks and cranny's filled. A vacuum chamber will really help with this of course. My thought on the matter is that while going through all the trouble to remelt the part, it's not much more trouble to do an aluminum investment casting. But if it's something you'd like to pursue, check out the videos CNC Kitchen did on remelting. It think he covered the salt packing method as well.
@@HoffmanTactical all i know about it is from the cnc kitchen video. it seems to be much much simpler than aluminium casting, the plaster remelt method doesent require a furnace and cna essentially be done with a bucket, a bag of plaster and an oven. im sure there needs to be more research though, it seems unnessecary to immerse the part in a block of plaster vs dipping to coat it in sequential layers, so there isnt so much plaster to insulate. also it seems PLA works poorly with the method, so it might be the polycarbonates time to shine or some other fancy filament.
What are your print settings for PETG? I used to print okay with it but now it keeps failing and gunking up
Honestly, I don't run PETG anymore. But when I did, I used the basic Prusa profiles.
Would running the ol' soldering iron across the layers make a diff?
Probably, If you melt in fiberglass it would certainly help.
@@HoffmanTactical Cool, thanks for getting back to me. I've been using the iron around areas like receiver/FCG pin holes, but haven't put enough rounds downrange to know if it's helping or not.
Thank you
Where can I buy the lower reinforcement and lower assembly kit? The site is down.
Yes. It got pulled by the hosting service. Should have it back up by Monday.
So out of the CF filaments which one has more rigidity? CF PLA? CF PC?
Tough call, they would both be pretty stiff. The PC will probably more impact resistant though.
Hoffman, i ordered a package. I just read the comment about the site shutting down. Can you still make those orders despite the shut down?
Yes. All of the pending orders shipped out Tuesday. You should have received a shipping confirmation. If not, shoot me an email with your order # and I'll get you the tracking info. tim(at)hoffmantactical.com
@@HoffmanTactical Ive received the package! Thanks man!
Polymax PC is my filament of choice best strength, impact resistance and toughness overall with awesome heat resistance
PC is good stuff. The blend I use works really well, but it does warp a little, so while it works it's not the best. It's great for smaller parts. Printing big stuff like the LR-308 lower it's more problematic though.
I'm in the concrete industry. Fibers put in concrete make it a huge pain if you go to remove it. So much tougher than concrete without it.
which is better and stronger to print gu_ns carbon fiber or polycarbonate?
Carbon Fiber can be added to any plastic, so it really depends what type you are printing. I think that CF Nylon is better then PC for most gun parts, but some PC blends could be better for some parts. There is a lot of variability!
@@HoffmanTactical thank you sir but which one is better for the lower and barell iam new to this stuf
What about PLA vs UV and other weather elements?
I've been thinking about that. I'll probably do a test by leaving a bunch of samples outside for a couple months and see how much they degrade compared to refence samples stored under optimal conditions.
First where the hell did you get a tensile testing thingy and second of all why aren’t we all using carbon fiber??? AWESOME VIDEO!!!
I built the tensile testing machine. I have found that CF can have negative effects on impact resistance in many cases. Another reason that CF is not more common is that it's used mostly in conjunction with plastics that are not necessarily the best. Like PLA, Nylon and PETG. A CF PLA+ or CF PCTG would be awesome. PLA+ and PCTG have the most impact resistance out of all the filaments.
I am looking for downloads, but site is down :(
Anyone know the impact/chipping characteristics of CF? I want to make a CF face shield (to protect from shrapnel and Spalding) and put it with my ballistic bump helmet
It becomes pretty brittle. It definitely has less impact resistance than the non-carbon filament. I don't think it's a good choice for your application. You want something that can absorb impact, like plain nylon. CF filaments almost feel like a ceramic, they sound like clay if you drop them on the table. Very brittle.
can you test the esun epa nylon & epa6-cf i ownder how it would do?
Have you done any tests with the salt baking? I would be very interested in seeing this material tested with that
what are the axis on those graphs? time and pressure?
Certainly. Y is PSI and X is time in approximately 0.01 s increments.
Have you did any test with pla pro+ it’s supposedly way better than just pla pro
From which manufacturer? I have not tested any PLA Pro yet.
@@HoffmanTactical esun found it on Amazon
Looking at it more now I think it’s just esuns way of saying pla+ I guess
@@texican3619 O.K. I've tested the standard Esun PLA+, that's all so far.
What’s the best filament for printing lowers now?
PET-CF.
@@HoffmanTactical any particular brand your fond of? Much appreciated.
Yo, nice video man. Just a little advice: Calm down. You speak into the camera as if you are going to beat me up lol
Wait so carbon fiber PLA is stronger than carbon fiber PETG? So the PETG is just more heat resistant? What benefits are there for PETG?
I've not tested any CF PLA yet. But I would say that anything in PLA+ would be better then PETG.
Please do a test of carbon fiber PLA
I'll have to try some. But from what I have seen it is pretty brittle.
@@HoffmanTactical ive printed some glock mags lowers and one of your super lowers in the COOBEAN brand carbon fiber PLA and with some basic tests using my hands it seems to yeild quite a bit especially for horizontally printed parts
I can print up some test samples for you so you don’t have to go out and buy a roll of filament
Dude, thanks for doing this! We've been told over and over that CF is actually weaker than sans CF, all else being equal. This seems to challenge that conclusion for sure. I would also add that CF filaments have much higher definition. I print lots of fine threads, and since starting to experiment with CF I've been able to stop offsetting my thread faces and simply use the looser thread class profiles in Fusion. Which should hypothetically also make the threads stronger just because there's more material there, and more surface area.
I'm one of the guys who says bad things about CF ;) Impact testing will really give us the answer though.
@@HoffmanTactical I'm really looking forward to your impact testing on CFPETG. Regular PETG has a tendency to break with impact, so my theory is CF may actually improve that property of PETG. CFPETG is my new favorite material to print with so I have high hopes. If it even gets close to PLA+, and maintains it's higher heat resistance, it could be a winner.
@@Snaaky005 In my testing it did, but still not the best. The CF-PET has performed much better. I'm not yet sure the significant difference between PET and PETG, but the PET certainly appears to have much better impact properties.
LOL@ 8:24! who's that, your big brother?! lol
I imagine petg is stronger than pla, but js you should see my carbon fiber pla prints. They come out so smooth, they do have layer lines but you can barely see them and it creates a really nice looking finish. I just wish it was more heat resistant. Next I'm going to buy the CF PETG and try that out because there are some weapon accessories I would like to print :)
Carbon Fiber does print Beautifully! However, PLA+ is much stronger then PETG. The biggest problem with PETG, and why I no longer use it, is it has very low impact resistance.