3D Printing Machine Parts with Carbon-Fiber Nylon | NylonX
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 พ.ค. 2024
- Today we're going to try printing a machine part with NylonX, a carbon-fiber filled PA-12 Nylon material. Is it a viable replacement for aluminum in the home shop? Let's find out!
NylonX filament: www.matterhackers.com/store/l...
Tools used in this video:
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Genuine E3D Hardened Steel Nozzle (Amazon*): amzn.to/3iIP3lT
125ml Wash Bottle (Amazon*): amzn.to/3iJQOiU
Kimtech no-lint Kimwipes (Amazon*): amzn.to/3ADPRPe
BuildTak 3D Print Removal Spatula (Amazon*): amzn.to/3iKmhBx
Noga Deburring Set (Amazon*): amzn.to/2xMfiPz
Bondhus Metric Hex Key Set (Amazon*): amzn.to/3eqZzwb
Bondhus SAE Hex Key Set (Amazon*): amzn.to/3h9bJLZ
Wilton 6-1/2" Tradesman Vise (Amazon*): amzn.to/33fqPXz
Raw Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
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Fuzzball Parade Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
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James, MY printer prints perfect every time. The key to perfect prints is to just NOT measure them when they're done. Ignorance, is science...
For sure. Design for loose fits and adjustability and don't worry about it!
@@Clough42 Make it perfect, or make it adjustable 😀
Make it mil-spec: sloppy enough to work when it's full of sand and usable as a blunt weapon in a pinch.
@@TommiHonkonen AK is Mil-Spec. Its under "Reparable with a stone" classification.
Sorry but I can only confirm !
For about five years now I've been using 3d printed parts in all sorts of machines -- cnc routers, other 3d printers, cnc plasma etc. As I look at this video I can't help but make a couple suggestions going forward. First, use the capabilities of 3d sculpting that 3d printing allows, adding ribs, bosses and other complex strengthening details. If you run the math, it becomes clear that these can dramatically improve the stiffness and stability of this kind of bracket for about no cost. Second, I always use embedded nuts, never rely on threads in the plastic. They're easy to incorporate and allow for full and repeated tightening without difficulty. My 2c.
I 100% agree with you. 3d printing affords the designer the ability to design strength into the model at no extra cost (besides additional filament for the features). Its a win win. In traditional manufacturing/machining, any additional strengthening features add a significant increase to the machine time and possible tooling/setup costs.
The key is to design it for 3d printing, not machining. Plastic parts should be designed in a way that you make a solid, and just cut out what you don't need, leaving as much plastic as you can. I think this would work a way better with a brackets around a motor too, with few more screws/nuts. That would reduce the sagging produced by the motor weight, and also the movement of the pulley.
Couldn't agree more the best part of 3d printing is the ability to make complex but strong models. That design would've been alot faster to just drill a few holes in some flat bar
Came in to offer the exact same two points.
Great mimes speak alike. Bravo.
100%. Lots of older engineer guys are very 'stuck in their ways' of thinking in metal material science. The restrictions we once had on design due to impractical or impossible issues with manufacturing are now often redundant and you can do whatever you dream up. In this video he made no use of the fact he was 3d printing and just recreated a piece exactly how it would be if it was aluminum.
Great video though, really like the production quality and I learned a lot.
Those 3d printed barbell weights look really realistic 👍
Very nice analysis, specially at the end, you even took the time to do a long term test, which is truly impressive, and you documented all the little issues and details that pop up during the design, printing and post-processing process, so yeah, I’m very pleased with this video and all the stuff I learned from it, great job, and thanks a lot for sharing all this info and hard work with us!!!
I think this is one of bests free videos from the makers I've seen. Really happy to watch professional and complete content (with aftermath, fully covered, no steps or info skipped, all seems thought of well, nothing left aside). Excellent for finding time for deadlifts! Good luck!
I've found using multiple walls (3 or four of them) massively increases rigidity and actually prints very fast. Also... adding holes. Yes: adding holes. The holes end up having the same 3/4 walls and add way more strength and rigidity than infill, while also printing very quickly.
This sounds like a good case for switching to a 0.8 nozzle. The infill being twice as wide is quite stiff and only two outer walls has the same effect as you mentioned while printing much faster.
yea, cnc kitchen has a video about this, and how it is nearly always better fkr both strength and rigidity to use more material in the walls and less in the infil. Ie. better result with the swme material. Most simple designs print faster too as you say - but thats just a bonus.
I wont go into tokcmuch detail (better to watch the mentioned video) but the gist of it is that material stresses are under nearly all circumstances high at the edges and low at the center - so generally that is where you want to invest the most material. Check out ideas like "gradient infill" to further optimize based the same principle.
I would also add that the lack of top and bottom layers here probably matters. At 0.25 and 3 layers this is a very thin piece of plastic for that amount of distance.
instead of holes, you can add some empty space inside the model that is so thin is gets filled when printed, that gives you walls inside the print, making it much stronger
@@court2379 a 0.4 can print 0.7-0.8mm wide extrusions
I've been doing this professionally for 11 years. You should never remove a part from your print bed by pushing a scraper towards your other hand trying to support it. Just remove the bed from the printer. Put it into a corner of a worktable with an high edge, or your kitchen counter and let the corner support the back edge of the print bed, and push the scraper forward, and away from yourself using both hands. You can get way more leverage and it's super safe. This is the safest way to do it. I've seen people wreck them selves bad and hit major arteries and have to go to the hospital doing what I saw you do in the video. Because sometimes the the parts pop off quick and this unexpected quick movement is what gets ya. Just looking out for you sir! Good Luck on all you do! Cheers
I sliced right through my thumb with a scraper whithin 6 months of printing lol, I think the best method is either flexible PEI sheet, glass bed put in freezer, or use a skirt in slicer
I cut into my palm with a scraper and it was shocking how much damage there was. Required stitches and still hurts to use my hand a year later
Try normal cold water. I print PLA and PETG on normal glass (not borosilica) and it never damages the glass
I don't have a 3D printer, or any practical use for this knowledge, at least at this time, but I found myself watching this in its entirety. I think you did a great job with your presentation, and you are easy to watch, listen to, and understand. I wish that I could enjoy owning a fabrication shop like you have, and maybe someday, God willing, I will. I think I'll enjoy watching your projects in the future. Liked and subscribed.
Jilted
You can also increases the number of walls to make things stiffer. I also add ridges to flat parts, similar to what they do with car floor pans, this seems to help the most.
I agree a flange/rib on this would stiffen it right up and still allow plastic to work. Guessing he remade it in aluminum though.
I really appreciate how you talked through the entire process. Solid video.
I was hesitant to get this material because I was told that if you didn't have an enclosed and heated print chamber you were hooped. I am encouraged to see it worked for you. I am going to order this for some industrial applications! Thanks for the video!
DFM my friend!
You're taking a part designed in 6061 and turning it into a CF print. A little tweaking of material here and there will solve the rigidity issue, but going 1:1 on converting a part material/method rarely ever works.
Yep.
Carbon reinforced plastics generally are 20-80% the strength of 6061. But they are 1/10th as stiff, so im not even surprised.
Even if this was injection molded, i doubt it would be sufficient for this application.
I want to do more of this kind of stuff, this is right up my alley, so I have a question. How would you adjust this part to make it behave more like the aluminum copy? How much thicker? Put ribs on it in key locations to reduce flex?
@@mjodr Set infill to 100% and make it a solid part would be the first step. If you notice in his slicer he had infill set to below 50%. It makes no sense to compare a plastic that isn't solid through out to the same part in solid aluminium. Always compare apples to apples meaning your geometry needs to be identical. Always print with 100% infill for functional parts that see modest loads.
@@mjodr Exactly. Add ribs, edges, etc. Utilize more box or tube shapes rather than solid beams.
Oh, my printer is absolutely amazing, spans my whole yard, a motor over here, a frame over there, doesn't make much, but you can always find bits of it everywhere after my last disassembly. Now I have a mill and lathe, I think it's high time I put it back together again with better parts.
For increased rigidity, i go for 6 walls and 50-60% infill which appears from my testing to make a significant difference in stiffness. Also, geometry matters, so i would add webs to this design. Another really enjoyable video!!
Would 100% infill give the ultimate in strength?
Hey appreciate your videos... went back through your settings and a couple things come to mind. 1. For these types of parts (brackets and what not) Probably want to be running 4 perimeters and 5 top and bottom layers at a minimum. Will really help with that flex you were experiencing. Second, a HTN or High Temp CF-Nylon is more what is used for an aluminum replacement. I would try with those parameters though and see if it doesn't remove a lot of the issues you saw.
A thread insert with a collar on the opposite side from the screw can hold really well in most 3D printed materials.
James, this is a nice video showing off the design and testing. I think you might already be catching on, but most 3D printed fixtures aren't great for constant loads like this. Unless you have room to spare for other features to stiffen it up (which is doesn't look like you have) this would still be a temporary solution that would need to get replaced with aluminum eventually.
Hey, thanks for the video! I'm sure you've gotten some more experience with this and other carbon-reinforced filaments, but I thought I'd share a couple notes based on my experience of working with these materials for the past couple years as an engineering grad student (we have a Markforged printer in my lab that's basically designed to print CF-nylon, even with some additional long fiber reinforcement, and nothing else, fun but spendy piece of hardware). 1) Like a couple other folks have mentioned in the comments, cutting threads into plastic, particularly nylon-based plastics, just doesn't work all that well for all the reasons you observed. You can get a package of heat-set inserts in brass, aluminum, and even 303 stainless from McMaster-Carr for reasonably cheap (and probably cheaper elsewhere). There are tools for interfacing them with a soldering iron, but you can even just heat them up with the basic iron or a torch and drop them into the appropriately sized hole (which you may have to drill to get right or just burn through, again because of the problems you observed about getting hole dimensions right the first time). 2) I just thought I'd explain the phenomenon you showed in the "few weeks later" shot. Nylon, like basically all thermoplastics, is viscoelastic, so any 3D-printed part under a constant load will experience some level of "flow." An extreme case of that is something like a soft taffy. If you pull on it, it'll stretch out, and when you let go, it'll spring back a little, but it'll still be stretched out. The mechanism for this is the long polymer chains having a limited ability to slide over each other and rearrange under load. Quite fascinating stuff!
would ABS be less prone to "flow" ?
@@mrdot1126 ABS might be more resistant. It's generally a stiffer plastic, with rings in its chains, compared to nylon. However, there are a number of other factors, such as application temperature, amount of load, and molecular weight, which is the average length of the chains, and can vary even between two polymers with the same chemistry (i.e. two ABS's can have different properties). And ultimately, these only affect the time scale that you see it happen. Basically all polymers will exhibit the behavior on some level. It's just generally good advice that, if you have something under constant load, polymers should probably be your last choice for material. They may work for very light duty, but certainly anything that will cause them to visibly flex will cause them to permanently deform over time.
Great video! I just finished printing a set of change gears for a SB lathe using polycarbonate with carbon fiber strands. It is $48/kg. They are beautiful, but all holes came out small! Had to drill them. It’s strange cause the key slots were to size. I have a Flashforge Adventurer 3. Highly recommend this printer. They offer a high temp nozzle that allowed me to print at 265 degrees C. Bed temp varied between 60 & 80. 60% fill. No brim or raft.
Very nice, thanks for sharing. I made a couple things with NylonX, but find annealed PLA to work for my purposes. I like to print on glass, then stick the build plate and all in the oven before removing the print. This prevents warping during the annealing on a flat object like that. Also would recommend the heat set threaded inserts for this kind of application.
Set wall thickness at least 4 lines, for great stiffness set 6-8. Infill less important, set 15-30% or 100%. Also let the print cool down on a bed until room temperature. And do not use bottom chamfer. "Cura" can control inner holes (add or reduce separately from other sizes). Also you can just use ABS or PETG but make park more thick and it will be even better than now.
I have never ever had a single problem 3D printing, anything! Nothing ever shrank, got stuck to the bed, left a poor surface finish! I think that is directly related to the fact that I don't have a 3D printer. If I did, I'm sure I would have every possible problem there is, and even some that are impossible!
Great Channel, I'm glad I found it, can't wait to see all your videos!!
You might want to design the part so that its not just a flat plate, but to have side walls etc to add rigidity. Flat 3d printed parts usually are bendy. I also think that basic PLA is more rigid. The tougher filaments are usually that because they bend more. So better design and simple PLA might get you better results.
I agree, this part seems like a conventional machinist designed it but the process can accommodate much more intelligent and bulky design. Really not trying to criticize the designer here.
Agreed. I was planning on doing exactly that, but there are space constraints where it's going to be mounted, so there wasn't room. It turns out that's really necessary to get the rigidity for this level of force in this material, so I learned something.
In this case, space limitations on the machine precluded a more robust design with ribs or other mechanical advantage. At the moment, I'm also struggling with the need to build off the flat plate. I've been playing with support, but depending on the geometry, it can be really tenacious and hard to remove. Looking forward to trying dissolvable support so I don't have those limitations.
Good idea. I was thinking about some diagonal stiffening ribs - looks like there's plenty of clearance under the pulley.
Another interesting video, James.
@@JoeMalovich Yes, its more about the design than fancy filament. Its never going to be metal, so need to compensate for the forces the part is subjected to. You can create some really rigid parts that withstand a lot by doing that.
I think people expect a bit too much from these special filaments, while temperature & impact resistance are probably the actual real benefits compared to the humble PLA.
Hi James,
Rule of thumb - plastic thread length should be 2-3x the diameter and you will have a nice holding force. When you do the forming - lubricate the tap. Overheating deforms the plastic and sometimes leads to striping while forming.
Thumbs up for the job done 👍👍👍
Try annealing the part after it’s printed. This will lead to shrinkage so you will need to compensate but it will make the part much more rigid and less likely to experience creep
Brass inserts installed using a soldering iron work very well. I have been using NylonX for about 2 years now in the drone industry and love the stuff. If your parts are shrinking, you can adjust your slicer program to accommodate.
I use the same. Only suggestion is springing the extra few cents per. Instead of a flat bottoms, some have a nipple on one side. Self centers it when you heat it, you dont have to screw with it.
A good source for metric brass inserts?
I’d love to see more printing videos specifically with the exotic cf filaments. I’ve been wanting to get a nice printer in our shop for some time and it would be a lot easier to justify if we could make actual production parts with it rather than just prototypes.
I'll be playing with CF-PETG next week. It looks pretty compelling so far from a printability standpoint.
@quique182 Yeah tried those about 3 years ago. Just send a test cubicle out to 3d printing services. We immediately scrapped the idea after we got our cubes. I hope this gets better by time.
@@Clough42 could you try printing a knife blade from that stuff and test it that would be great 👍
In Cura, there is "Hole Horizontal Expansion" where you set it to make holes larger. I found that hole sizes were consistently off by .25mm so I set it to .125 (radius) and it works great.
same
Hole inside diameters always end up smaller than what is modeled and this is common across the majority of 3D printers. It doesn't really have anything to do with the slicer itself.
@@internettoughguy That setting in the slicer will eliminate the problem. If you don't want to use it, then don't. Others might find it useful. I know I certainly do.
You dropped your cape, sir
I think there is a similar setting in Simplify 3D as well. Its definitely something the slicer should fix
Yeah the "after 1 week" image highlights just what I was thinking might be the problem. It will slowly deform under load, especially in a hot enviroment.
Use brass headset inserts for small threads, I love the ones McMaster carries!
The flanged screw-to-expand inserts work perfectly on my NylonX parts.
thanks for all in depth content you've been posting. I stumbled onto your channel a while back when I was digging into VFD's and I found your lathe VFD series.. Bummer to see that nylon x sag after a week, I keep looking at it but the price has always pushed me away... Currently I'm exploring the PrintNC DIY(ish) CNC router to expand on what I've been doing with 3D printing, learn the ropes of basic cnc so I can do aluminum parts similar to what you were trying here. Anyhow, keep up the awesome work! I've been learning a ton over here
I often ask the same question - 3d print (easy but weak) or cnc mill (better part, more work). The lazy in me really wants to 3d print but my results are rarely worth the time, especially when the 3d part breaks in the middle of a job. For so many things in the shop the printer is awesome, but for this application I'd just mill it. Great video, thanks for sharing your experience.
The issue with small holes can be fixed in the slicer, horizontal expansion in cura.
Also layer heights are best in certain increments 2.8 would be better then 2.5.
Great video, I think I’m gonna try some of this material.
I agree. If I do .1 then every once in a while a layer is thicker. If I do .12 it's even. Stacked up rounding error I believe.
"hanging "temporarily" off the front"
You know what they say, there's nothing more permanent than a temporary solution ;)
"This is just temporary, unless it works."
Hello James,
I have no knowledge of 3D printing but always interesting to learn about it from you and other TH-camrs.
Take care.
Paul,,
Very cool. I'm in model aviation and I can see applications for this material. Stronger but still lightweight! Nice!
3d prints are definitely going to become a shop staple, no question.
They're certainly getting closer to being able to replace aluminum and steel in some applications.
Thanks for sharing what you're finding out!
Please keep doing these vids. Much appreciated! :)
Yeah maybe not steel tho... But aluminium for sure cuz you cut a lot of work going printing
Maybe a little late for you but someone might still find it usefull: Increased infill increases the stiffness and stability of the part but whats actually even better than doing this is to change the infill pattern.
I dont know the slicer youre using but at 8:37 take a look at "Internal fill pattern" and change it from Rectlinear to something more "organic". Precisely in PrusaSlicer (Or any Fork i assume) my favorite infill pattern to use is "Support cubic infill"
I don't ever subscribe, but not only your approach to the engineering and proofing of 3d printing (lots of hearsay and snakeoil advertising out there), not only your keen understanding of the simple truth of TRUE Carbon Fiber, and not only because of your mechanical testing...
But because you are relaxed, explanatory, and minimal background noise, loss of multiple angle cuts, and an overall lack of ADHD prodcution values you see in so many of these videos today.
Thank you man.
By the way have you seen My Tech's videos? He has amazing mechanical testing proofs
Just started watching your channel and your 3D printer looks just like my 3D printer I made a long while back when 3d printing started. Funny just got a Ender 5 pro but still want to go back to my original printer and make it better. I am using a smoothie board with my old printer. Keep up the good work.
After hearing everybody call CF Nylon an aluminum replacement it is really nice to see somebody give it a review comparing it to aluminum, and discuss how it acts beyond "its strong hurr durr".
Thank you for this video looking at this fascinating material! I guess it's time I try out the CF nylon I got a month ago. I've just been putting it off for fears of difficulty printing and wasting money on bad prints.
I suggest you look at some other channels that actually test all the CF filaments with standard engineering tests. None of them are stronger than the base plastic, most are weaker, and frankly, no one ever called CF nylon "black aluminum". For this application, he should have milled Delrin plastic or just used aluminum, which is isotropic.
My printer is awesome, and it prints inside holes the way I want them every single time. That is, some random rate of shrinkage. The trick is convincing yourself that's what you wanted.
In reality though, I found a small hole guage plate on thingiverse, and I just print that with the settings and material I want, measure the IDs of that, and upsize my model's holes accordingly for the post-shrinkage ID I need. Works fine for models for private use. If I publish/share the model, I adjust the holes (back) for 1:1 accuracy first, or grab the pre-adjustment iteration.
For printed parts meant to take loads and forces, I'd suggest doing custom _internal_ profiling and bracing. FDM materials are flexible, and autogenerated infill won't accommodate explicit strength and rigidity needs vs load type and directionality. When doing the design and custom/manual infill, I find it helps to think of it as if it was a stamped sheet metal hollow shell part. Design the profiles the sheet metal need for shell strength, then doodle in the manual infill for the internal bracing and beefing where neccessary.
Thanks !!!! Just what i needed . I am also into cars for as long as i can remember . I am just starting out on 3d printing though and immediately have lot of things that one can print for the petrol heads . Thanks once again .
Than for another practical 3D printing example. We all got lots to learn 😜
Nylon X must be dried at 70° C in the common hydrator type dryers for 18-24 hours. Your result will be much much nicer.
You should get a stiffer print if you select “Print every infill angle on each layer” found in the infill tab.
Thank you this is the info i was looking for. Viable sub for aluminum if you do not have milling option. Love engineering on the fly. Get it done, then do it better with the experience.
Great video. Nylon X was the first Carbon Fiber filament I used with my upgraded Ender 3V2, had great results with it. I have since been messing around various other materials like PETG with CF added and ABS. I love the finish and how the CF helps to prevent sagging when doing prints. Lots of great information in all the comments here. Have subscribed, will check out the rest of the videos you have up, very practical and helpful. I have the glass plate with Creality and find glue sticks work great or hair spray with this material. Most of the carbon stuff I do is with .6mm hardened steel nozzle, I was running about 50 bed temp and 260 nozzle with NylonX with great results. My Ender3v2 has added z axis and extra motor, direct drive extruder upgrade and auto bed leveling, with filament detection added, has been my workhorse since adding several key upgrades. Agree, many comments here about adding extra dimensional pieces for added stiffness, and comment about the use of nuts pressed into the plastic, all great comments. Thank you
Try carbon fiber plate instead of glass. Bake it in the oven prior to use or buy pre preg. Gl
I found the best way to do threading in 3D prints is just to model the hole a little undersize and let the screw form the threads. It works great.
Depends on the material and geometry. I've had good and bad results doing this.
@@Clough42 Make the hole slightly smaller than a helicoil insert core, and tap it with the helicoil thread (ensuring your wall thickness is thick enough)
I use heat inserts for threading. That requires a larger hole though and sometimes that isn't optimal or there may not be sufficient clearance.
I do the same except I run a tap through the threads to chase them. I also run a higher wall count and tap the threads a lot if they're more critical and inserts are not an option.
For threaded holes, I always print them at the tap drill size, then just tap them with a cut tap after printing. A spiral fluted tap meant for blind holes seems to do better than a spiral point tap that forces the chips forward.
As far a print surface, have you ever tried PEI? I have a thing sheet of PEI attached to a piece of .020" shim stock the size of my bed. I only print in PLA and NinjaFlex, so I don't know how well it works for other materials, but I've never had a problem with adhesion, and removing parts is easy because I can just flex the sheet to break them free. When the surface gets worn a bit, I just scuff it with scotchbright and it's back to new. The steel sheet is held in place by a magnet sheet on the aluminum heatbed.
That's a nice solution 👍🏻👍🏻
Once I moved to flex bed material, we never looked back, print in a wide variety of materials. You need to re-level a small amount after removing the sheet to get parts off, but that seems minor to me.
I see the part had only two outer layers of wall. I found that increasing to 4 or more makes even PLA more stable. Very nice design!
One suggestion to increase the rigidity of such a part is to add side walls to the print to encompass the sides of the motor mount (that requires widening it out a bit of course, as well). If you want to avoid creep, I think an ABS/PC blend material will creep less. Nylon is notorious for creeping badly under a consistent load.
Regarding your comments on .25mm layer height... you may need to be careful that your layer height number is divisible by the minimum resolution of your Z axis as governed by the leadscrew pitch and the step angle of the motor (Ignore micro stepping). Not familiar with your printer, but a lot of common printers like Enders need to have the layer height divisible by .04mm. If this setting isn't right, you'll get repeating patterns in your horizontal lines in your prints as the desired height and the actual height of the layers get out of phase.
For the size of the holes being small your slicer should have an expansion option to help with this. I use Cura and it is called "Hole Horizontal Expansion" It took my a long time to find this setting. :) Have a good one.
Just a note on this: Many more things than small holes will be considered a "hole". It can potentially cause issues with other models, particularly ones designed with only a few layer line thickness walls. e.g. a vase designed for exactly 4 walls thickness may become 3.8 walls thick, so maydo 3 walls with non-contiguous infill in the rest.
You can also play with the thread engagement in Fusion360 but when he's doing this type of work, total thread engagement is key. A 3D printer can only do so much by nature of the layer extrusion and why he explained how the threads are printed. Good tip tho👍
S3d does have something like it called Horizontal size compensation, But it's garbage and doesn't work all that well.
Also a suggestion is go away from 3D printed threads and do brass threaded insets. I recently went this way for many things with great success.
@@compwiser1 For sure! I've heard that the ones for wood work best. I'll definitely be trying it one day...
Not sure if anyone else suggested it but for a new material perhaps try printing a temperature tower. Can be very enlightening for determining default print settings.
Nice test! I am about do do almost exactly the same thing. One tip tho...In Fusion360 when you model in metric you can input a standard value into the box and it will automatically convert it to metric. Thought this would save you some time and thinking😄 I plan on using CFnylon for jigs and fixtures. I recently bought some HT-CF-PLA. It's cheaper and almost the same effect for jigs. I figured I could make the base of the fixture with that then have a bolt on piece made from CFnylon to withstand a little more heat. I can also print the PLA with my cheaper printer and not tie up my PRUSA which I make money on. Thanks for saving me some testing time😁👍
The big challenge with holes in printing is that the stl is just polygons and holes are often made up of polygons with the points on the circle rather than the edges being tangent to the circle. More points/polygons in the model export cal lower that "shrinkage".
Yea I'm pretty they addressed that in slicers a long time ago, ie fit the circle to the polygon edges and not the polygon points
Yes ur right, but... if your printer firmware is able to receive G02 and G03 commands we have the so called ARC WELDER plugin.
For CURA as well,
But can be used as a separated stand alone PYTHON routine .
It will fuse the poligons int ARCS, and will give freedom to the firmware to treat as arcs.
The advantage is to compress the file size in the serial communication between the computer and the printer (in case u use it) , and of course the quality of the surfaces is higher.
Have you tried increasing the number of perimeters on the bracket? It's a good way to improve rigidity, much better than more infill. More top and bottom layers too.
Yeah Stefan on CNC Kitchen has some great testing on perimeters vs infill and so on.
The word "perimeters" must be another slicer program? I use CURA and i get instructions for only using 1 perimeters, (i build flying wings" Is the setting related to wall count? :-)
@@TheGeordietheWitchandtheWench Yeah Cura calls it "wall line count", but I hear "perimeters" being used more often. You probably know this but it's all about thickening the walls (and the top and bottom surfaces, "top/bottom thickness" in Cura) because that's where the stiffness comes from - in a simple beam, a bending load puts the bottom of the part into compression, the top into tension, and produces no stress at all along a line through the middle of the part. Increasing the number of layers around the outside of the part distributes the stress across more material so you get less strain and therefore less deflection. Increasing the infill density doesn't do as much because the stress is lower in the middle anyway.
@@cooperised Perfect explanation, thanks for clearing that up :-)
Great video, learned a ton with this as I am coming into the 3d Print world. Side note, solid pull on your DL keep that up!
That's the same Nylon / Carbon Fiber filament that I used. That stuff is tough! I use a Prusa textured build plate and added Vision Miner's Nano Polymer Adhesive to the bed before I started. No issues. Sizing is always a problem. I usually use a parameter to adjust it (wonder where I got that idea).
Like Watch Wes Work always says, "It's only temporary unless it works."
I recommend threaded inserts (brass is common) when screwing into 3D printed plastic parts.
That's exactly what I was thinking. It's not metal, it should not be designed like metal.
Yes! Just make sure to get the ones designed for 3D printing, and not for injection molding, as the latter are meant to be overmolded
No, you don't need them here. They don't make the connection stronger, you only need them when you often disassemble parts.
I have used Carbon Fiber Nylon to print a sheet metal dimple die. There are some here showing 3d printed press brake tooling, and sheet metal forming dies for a hydraulic press. it really opens up what a small home shop can make when you have a 3d printer and the right filament
Hi James, a couple of things you could do to curb the "droop" of a thin part like your motor mounting plate - print with more top/bottom layers and increase the infill to around 70%. Also, even using the .4mm nozzle, you can push you extrusion width up to .6 or .7 mm width and that will also add strength. The third thing is after printing is to temper or "anneal" the part before putting it into service. You may have to adjust your dimensions somewhat to allow for shrinkage during the process, but parts come out significantly stiffer and don't suffer quite as much from load holding "creep". I use a food dehydrator and heat the parts to between 120F /130F for about an hour and let them cool slowly before moving them.
Which food dehydrator are you using?
"Cold flow" for Nylon is a thing, meaning that under constant pressure, Nylon tends to squeeze out or bend. For example, a screw tightened down on a Nylon washer will eventually become loose as the Nylon slowly flows up from under the screw head. Nylon is good for wear items such as gears or sliding elements, but it'll be on a case-by-case basis regarding whether it's suitable where there's constant compressive or bending force.
Also a thing for PLA or PETG.
Aka creep
For constant loads, I heard CF PC is a better choice.
Been running a Markforged Mark 2 for the past year. It runs CF Nylon with continuous CF reinforcement. From my own testing, parts can get to Aluminum level strength. However, the CF patters need to be designed a certain way to bear the load. Since there is a lack of simulation for this, you end up printing the part three+ times to get the pattern right.
Not to mention the costs. Have always wanted one of these machines but the materials are quite pricey, even for my prototype shop.
To unstick the part from the platter, squirt a bit of solvent along the edge of the part. Capillary action will suck the solvent in and under.... then prying is much, much easier. Acetone is mild stuff, I doubt it will attack the nylon. I've also seen (but not tried) air holes designed into the part, after printing you put an air gun to the holes and blast air in, it should release the part.
Great video, and I absolutely loved the ELS video.
Great vid - I was looking into using carbon fiber for model engine mounts and you have a really good application. I was guessing near the end of the video that over time the weight of the motor would take the plate out of planarity. For many apps, this carbon fiber will work fine.
Generally, when using 3D printed parts instead of aluminum, I have chosen PETG - great strength and dimensional accuracy - I may give NylonX a try. However, none of these materials are metal - they need to be *significantly* thicker than an aluminum part if you want equivalent rigidity - especially with reasonable infill.
I picked up a roll of PETG-CF and a roll of ABS-CF to try.
yes, done some PETG stuff and it is really strong.
Want to try some sort of CF stuff one day but with have to get a better hot end.
Awesome,could I reply me,I wanna talk to you
Another solution for the nylon adherence to the bed problem is printing a 0.3/0.6 layer of PETG to the bed and then print the Nylon above this PETG layer. This is the technique I used and the one that have given best results. Interesting thought that bed you have. Regards!
You might want to look into using some brass heat-set inserts; they hold threads a lot better than tapping straight into the plastic. You can press them in with a standard soldering iron, or turn a custom soldering iron tip to press them in.
My wife also says that the spatula tool or a flexible painter's palette knife is the right tool for getting parts off the 3D printer bed. Those are the same tool she uses professionally in her 3D print lab.
M.
I've printed in a few Carbon materials and found myself to be sensitive to them after printing, they made my skin itch. This is apparently not rare and some issue with the fibers being improperly bound into the plastic. Glad that one worked out. Yes, they shrink, Yes they are not as strong as you might think. but wow it's light for the strength it has.
All thumbs up. 👍👍🦶🦶
For the (small) threads, I'd print smaller threadless holes and then tap them, or 😎 I would try the printed ones first, since there's a bit of shrinkage, they might have been just right..
Also, the mount will be supported by whatever it is mounted to, more than it is in the vice, so I believe it will hold..
This is super awesome.
You could also add more mass if you need stronger parts and still be light weight.
Full honeycomb infill will help a lot with flex/rigidity when printing plate shaped parts.
Tolerances for holes I use +0.15mm radius.
When taping multiple holes in a row I recommend cooling the tap tool every other hole. (I use a glass with water and ice). All plastics will heat a lot and if its pla or petg, the thread will be slightlly damaged when the tap tool gets hot (after 2/3 holes max) from my exp.
When I print Glass Fiber Nylon on Garolite I put a layer of Magigoo on the print surface. The part still adheres well to the bed but its much easier to remove without damaging the Garolite or print for that matter.
James, Garolite is a great surface, but sometimes it holds _too_ well, as you've just experienced. I use dollar store picture frame glass and extra hold hairspray. It self-releases and doesn't need to be reapplied every time. A little alcohol rinse takes any sticky spray right off the part. It's also universal to all the filaments I've tried over the last 5+ years. I print high temp stuff, too. I also suggest watching out for those all steel nozzles. They have a minor issue with heat-creep being _too_ low, so rapid printing can draw the heat out of the nozzle and leave you with some delamination issues. Bump the temp by 5-10 degrees if printing fast.
P.S. In my experience, there's no such thing as a 'perfect printer,' only perfect processes on a per-printer basis!
Among other materials such as PP and PVDF, I've been printing with carbon fiber PLA and Nylon for several years. One of the main things that I have learned is that carbon fiber filaments for most FFF machines (except for things like Markforged continuous fiber printers), you can almost never create a part that is a 1 to 1 copy of a metal part and have it perform just as good. There are always modifications to the general geometry that you need to make for the part to work nearly the same. I also found that doing things like printing spaces for metal pins, keys, screws, and other off the shelf hardware to work with the part will also help it do what you want even more so.
Great! But What if you can't get the metal replacement from provider... You must print a mechanic part, what'd be your recommendation? THAnks
Great work as usual. Very detailed
Thanks, @Clough42 you are a wealth of valuable information, as always--great video. Congratulations on your PR deadlift! 200kg, wow! And Renae looks like she's doing awesome as well. (I started training two years ago with a PT to rehabilitate a back injury; I'm up to 93kg/205lb--your lift was inspiring.)
That's awesome! I've known several people whose back issues were significantly improved by deadlifting.
Great video. I haven't used anything but ABS in my printer but something I do that fits this application would be using 10/32 inserts instead of trying to thread into plastic.
Very educational. Got me thinking I might want to print some stuff in that material.
Thanks for the video! I have a roll of CF-PLA ready to try out once I get a hardened nozzle. Tangentially related; I'd be interested in a video about your thoughts/experiences with form tapping in the home shop.
Yup, you should make an assembly with 2 plates, joined by thick enough walls. If it fits your goal, you can integrate the extrusion joints , so you will end with a strong part + the extrusion rigity as a bonus. I do think that CF is interresting in particular thermal constraints. Otherwise, ABS is a good balance at the moment for that kind of applications. Rigidity is not always a good friend in the long term.
I like your style and learned a lot. Don't know about you but I only learn things when they don't go right.
I look forward to trying this material...I've printed PLA, PLA+, PETG, ABS, and ASA so far and have come back to PLA+ for most needs*. I would say though that I don't think any of those, or NylonX for that matter, are a direct 'aluminum replacement' in that you can reliably take a part designed for aluminum, print it in plastic, and expect it to work. Depending on the part though, you might be able to make adjustments (make it thicker, add ribs, etc.) to design a somewhat different but very usable part for the same use case.
*I use PETG for compliant parts, and ASA for temp resistance, though those can be a hassle until dialed in. Otherwise I like PLA+ or 'Pro PLA'.
A straight up honest "yeah, that didn't work so good" review? Impressive.
Thanks for posting this video i just purchased some Gizmo Dorks Carbon Fiber Fill Filament and will be here tomorrow i had a few questions that your video here answered for me quite well so thanks again brother keep up the great videos....
Nice job. I'm just starting in 3D printing and I'm always curious about some of the newer materials.
On my printer, I add about 0.5mm to holes, and I'm glad you said it, "the overall dimensions are exact", except the holes are smaller. And next time, pull the flexible fibreglass off and flex it. Using a spatula with the bed still on can cause inaccuracies in the frame, bed levelling etc.
I would love to know if the Carbon fibre is terrible to inhale or does it become encapsulated in the plastic and, therefore, too big to cause any effect to the lungs?
Thanks, this is awesome! The best part about it, for me (i have no mill or other metalworking tools... just woodworking tools) - is that the tooling cost is quite low... you just need the printer, filament, and software. Think of all the stuff you'd need for this to make it the conventional way... a mill, endmills, and angle grinder (at a minimum) to cut off the piece you need, coolant, a vise on the mill, setup/gauge blocks, calipers for measurement, etc! Or... a printer, filament, and software.
To fix the "after one week" issue - would you make the whole thing wider and add gussets on the sides? that's a pretty large cantilever!
you don't cut aluminium with angle grinders.. you use saws
I think that we should compensate the weakness of this material increasing the thickness and adding some reinforcement like we do when shifting from metal to wood pieces. Great job! Thanks. May God bless you.
PLA is still the king of rigidity. I just wish there was a PLA with higher temperature resistance because it melts like butter.
Regarding dimensions.. i design stuff with small holes (+10mm dia). I use the ender 3 and prints always come with shrinked holes. So i always over size holes dia by 0.2 mm in CAD. I also realized that the smaller the hole the more it will shrink and vice versa.
This was quite informative, thanks for your attention to detail!
Given the cost of that filament, I wonder if printing PLA for an aluminum cast with lost PLA method might not be the best option for this sort of part. Of course that would ad some more labor to the process, but probably still less than machining. You could melt down scrap/recycled/salvaged aluminum for the cast, which, depending on the source, could bring the material cost down considerably. Lower cost, reduced labor, for a solid aluminum part?
Great video, thanks. So nice to see someone with experience using cnc'd metal parts as well as being proficient with 3d modeling and printing. I'm prototyping parts for production and have been trying to decide between outsourcing production and using overmolded polymer or just adding to my print farm and 3d printing everything using carbon fiber reinforced nylon. With the up front cost to make an injection molding mold being ~$15,000, I'm leaning towards in house production with 3d printers. For the price of one injection mold, I could buy 15 more Prusa printers lol
Also, if you need to make any design changes, you can just change the model instead of having to revise/modify a mold
Thanks for sharing your experience with the filament. I've been printing lots of PETG and would like to "move up" to something better for real world, strong parts. I'll have to look into this.👍
You could try other materials like abs+ or polycarbonate or polypropylene. (Polycarbonate and polypropylene are pretty hard to print though so be a ware)
I like CF filled PETG because the warping is low. The fibers seem to help the impact strength. The one thats worked ok for me is the prilene. The fiber content was too high in the others. Without a heated enclosure i have had trouble with larger parts in abs or nylon.
@@mshepard2264 carbon fiber filled petg is pretty amazing. I printed bed brackets for my ender 5 pro out of that stuff and sinds then my z banding has reduced quiet a lot. I did notice some creep in the material though so I had to tighten the screws a bit
rocking an old style Ryobi, I have one of those to:) Thanks for the video, very nice to watch and learn.
It just won't die.
You'll learn in no time (like I did) that Nylon LOVES moisture, but the printer HATE wet nylon...
You should keep the spool in a drybox with dissecant all the time. If not you'll get all kind of problems: stringing, bad layer adhesion, poor finished parts and so on.
Great Video! I like it.
My favourite tool for removing parts from print beds is a painters palette knife. They’re very thin, flexible, and relatively cheap.
Mic drop @ 18:00! Great blast, an expensive piece of equipment is never needed. Experimentation is the essence of hobbyists.