Empire of Death Was a Disaster
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- You may have thought the days of abysmal Doctor Who finales were over, but RTD has given us another one as a special treat. I’m here to talk about it a week too late for way too long, and you’re gonna watch it and comment “wow this was sure worth the wait!”
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Outro Music: • Futuristic Sci-fi Bac... - บันเทิง
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I know the video is long but let's pretend it's two videos, to make up for the fact it's a week late!
I can live with it being a 'two-parter.'
she made it snow, he made it sand, can I make it anymore obvious
He was a dog
She was Sunday
What more can I say?
@@LiveHedgehog
He was a dog.
She was a Sunday.
Next season, Garfield the new villain hates Mondays
@@LiveHedgehog
He wanted her mum
She'd never tell
Secretly she was a normal person
@@albertgeddis7308he was a bad cgi doggy nuchi said see ya later babes 😂
Wait.. that’s Avril. Lol
I easily thought it was RTD's worst finale, possibly his worst episode. Everything felt disconnected and rushed yet there was this smug attitude to it all. Extremely frustrating.
Smug is unfortunately a very apt description
@@Joe_Brennan_ the audio in the cinema was totally frunked up too. Made the plot even more confusing.
The smugness oozing from it was just awful... I don't think I'll ever abandon the show, but I have no love left for Russell 😔
I hope Yasmin Finney got a decent paycheck to stand in the background of these two episodes. Nothing she did couldn't have been done by any other character or no-name red shirt.
Gotta build up to that inevitable UNIT spin-off!
Really bizarre inclusion
Excess child labour
based redistribution of BBC funds to the trans community
I mean, they used her for a specific reason and had to disguise the fact some way. …Even if it means just throwing her in the background because they can’t get Donna or 14.
@@ogpandamoniumshe is 20. Hardly child labour.
I don’t really like the fact that the Doctor never really questions any of the fantastical elements he’s been encountering throughout this series. I’m just thinking back to when the Doctor would philosophise about the mysteries of the universe like in ‘Listen’ and there’s nothing really like that in this new series, which is a shame because it’s one of the most interesting aspects of the show imo.
It is odd that Kate is the only one to really flag it within the story, the Doctor has taken a lot of it at face value in a way that feels disappointing
For the Doctor to do that, that would mean Russell has to care about the crap he's writing, as opposed to, hey it's magic!
I mean TBF, he has encountered fairly fantastical elements before. I mean, The Toymaker and the like are basically godlike, and like, he himself DID try and seal awhile Sutekh because if dude DID become a full god as he did, he would more than likely lose
Super cool we had bi-generation as a device to cleanse the Doctor of the baggage of tragedy only to put it all back again.
RTD thinking about enacting meaningful change and then returning the show to its 2005 status quo is typical
Well it's not the first time. After Day of the Doctor (50th) we assumed the next doctor would be free of his guilt and doubt since he _finally_ knows he didn't destroy his home planet and race. But then for some reason 12 is even more gloomy and guilty, constantly wondering if he's a good person or a monster.
@@RedCaio I thought they had their memories wiped? Or was that just Hurt and Tennant?
@@noahalden529 I believe it was only Hurt and Tennant.
@@RedCaio To be fair even if you remove that he still did a lot of things during the war
I think the reveal of Ruby's mum being normal could work.
Here's how I'd do it. Ruby's mum is normal, completely normal, but Ruby isn't and it's partially the Doctor's fault. The events of The Church on Ruby Road created a complex temporal event round Ruby as a baby. The goblins changed her timeline and the Doctor mostly changed it back, but it's still slightly off and it's created a sort of temporal hiccup. Ruby is now permanently tied to a single moment in time that acts as a splinter point between three timelines, and that's where the snow and music come from and why the Doctor's memory changes. Ruby's presence is making him remember things from the other timelines.
And this is something the Doctor should have realised if he wasn't so hung up on the idea of parents due to his preoccupation with his own parents that he projected onto Ruby.
Well, that's the thing Big Finish did so well with 8 and Charlie, but totally beyond Russel at this point. He's more interested in that inclusion and mentioning cultural appropriation.
Ii wouldn’t be so bad to open and close the series with two duds but there’s only like, 6 episodes in between. I would cut off one of my limbs for these seasons to be longer by a couple of episodes
The season desperately needs just a few more adventures
@@Joe_Brennan_ I got one of the books to fill in the gaps. This season has driven me to READING YUCK
@hada__02 phew. Glad you found a safer course of action.
And 10 to 15 minutes more to flesh out character and plot. Every episode could have used more time for pacing and development@@Joe_Brennan_
I was heartbroken when I saw the Vlinx die, but when he came back I was relieved!
The only death in this episode that got any reaction because it felt like it could be real
The fact that Ruby’s character boils down to be nothing more than her central mystery, was such a disappointment. She could’ve been loads more but seemingly RTD was only really interested in drumming up hype, which is a terrible way of writing a show. Also Carla and Cherry (who have been given so little this season as it is) are diminished in favour of Ruby’s “real” mum (calling her that maybe the worst line in Doctor Who, I loathed it) and it makes their already limited presence throughout the finale so disingenuous… I was really disappointed to get another companion who boils down to just mysteries for the sake of it. Clara got miles and miles better after s7, I’m desperate for Ruby to have the same change. 73 Yards hinted at her being a really compelling character but beyond that and a couple of moments, I feel like she’s been nothing this whole season. Massive shame
Ruby's whole arc also reminded me of how Clara was in series 7B, but while Clara eventually got the chance to develop into a much better character, I don't see that happening with Ruby to be honest. Between the reduced episode count, her character's apparently reduced presence compared to this season, and the fact she'll have to fight for attention with Varada Sethu's new companion, I don't see how they can possibly redeem Ruby's characterisation beyond this point
The whole series I was wondering why SO much inportance was placed on finding Ruby's biological mother because she clearly had like the best mum in the world (even though the only episodes shes in she becomes all sad and mean) and then in the finale they bring her along just so ruby can completely ignore her and care only about this person who abandoned her (even for a good reason) and then call that person her "real" mum despite Carla actually being her real mum.
Wouldn't be the first time that RTD favored a blonde white woman over a black character in the narrative, sadly.
Honestly I think despite the episode's problems, the reveal at the end that Mrs. Flood is the Daughter of Scongo really put the entire season into a new light to me
I immediately rewatched the whole thing and the clues are there
Who is Scongo?
@@user-lh2nq9db6dThat doesn’t matter. What matters is the significance we place on it.
@@Joe_Brennan_😂
@@UltimateKyuubiFox Oh yeah, cos things are important if we think they are.
Genuinely believe Russell just clenches his hands and has a booming evil laugh whenever he writes a twist now
Thinks he's a genius until he sees everyone hate it online 😅
what bothers me most tbh is that this finale makes up 1/4th of the episode count of the entire series :/
It really is rough
1/4 of the series is the disappointing finale, another 1/4 of the series does not even feature the doctor as the main character in his own first series. And as for Rogue, the Doctor and Ruby were separated through the majority of it, giving almost no time for their relationship to develop into anything meaningful.
I don’t get how RTD can write a story like this and be happy with it. He wrote Bad wolf/parting of the ways (to name one) which was incredible. I also don’t get how this series was meant to be a fresh start but the have the finale requiring homework and the doctor watching an old episode. Just bizzare. There needs to be more collaborative work of DW I think rather than one deciding all. Just want the show to be consistently good again😢
Exactly. Should've just been S14 or hell with the PoM callbacks the S40 jokes weren't wrong.
hold on, how is a bad finale after a really good series not "consistently good"? This has easily been the most consistent series since Moffat's run, there isn't a single series of doctor who that doesn't have a bad episode
@@ennayanne Almost every episode this season had nonsense/disappointing endings. The only one with a sensible conclusion was dot and bubble, which is crazy. This season was consistently bad and disappointing.
@@bluearcher1559that’s wrong.
@@DanskeCrimeRiderTV 1) Space Babies: The ep ends with the doctor leaving the monster on a ship full of children and he just blasts them into space. Good luck! 2) The Devils Cord: How did the Beatles know the magic chord? How did the Doctor? Also, what was rubys "secret song?" Guess that went nowhere. 3) Boom: An interaction AI gains sentience and "hacks" the super powerful world controlling AI? Dont think it takes a computer scientist to explain that bullshit. 4) 73: Lordy, what was ruby saying to scare everyone? Why was ruby stuck repeating those same motions? WTF was this? 5) Dot and bubble: Weird ep but crazy its the only one with a sensical ending. 6) Rogue: Predicable, bland, uninspired, ending we all saw a mile away. Ignore the fact that this tech should be smarter than allowing a prisoner to be released through trickery. 7) Legend: No ending
8) Empire: Doctor drags dog through time tunnel, killing him the exact same way as last time, which didnt work.
Quality, Quantity, and ratings are dropping all across the board.
I felt so bad for Carla this episode. I was desperately hoping RTD would be smarter than to pull the "real mum" bullshit, and that the point we landed on would be that Carla IS her real mum and that Ruby's been kind of an ungrateful weirdo this whole time by insisting she needs to know who gave birth to her. Like, what makes Lucy her mum? She doesn't know this woman! And then to infringe on her privacy and life like that at the end? I'm sorry, but it's a genuinely gross resolution that just recreates all the worst tropes of adoption stories.
I did do a little wince when she used the words “real mum”. Like, “…would she really say that?”.
It’s not like Ruby is Harry Potter or something. She wasn’t raised by a wicked aunt and uncle or evil Stepmother. She had a foster mum who took her in, adopted her and loved her like she was her own flesh and blood. Apart from two instances involving parallel timelines, she is never once shown to be anything other than beautifully sincere in how much she loves Ruby.
It’s such a strange choice to have her use those words. “Birth mum” works just as well without there being a whole load of emotional baggage attached. The more I think about it, the more it feels like an irresponsible writing choice, but like Joe says, it’s surrounded by so much other garbage, it feels like there was a lot of that going around.
Aunt Sharon, Moira...it's a habit!
@@danthomassolo According to RTD in the episode commentary, Ruby calling Louise her 'real mum' is meant to be Ruby making a mistake because RTD agrees Carla is her real mum, but that certainly doesn't come across in the episode.
@@Fff99901 it’s rarely a good sign if the writer has to clarify things like that. Especially if their explanation is utterly at odds with what’s on the page.
@@gladiator652004 I genuinely had to Google who Moira was as I had completely forgotten that Bill had any family shown on screen. Moffat never really seemed interested in fleshing out the family members of companions in the way that RTD did, which makes the fact that Carla is an RTD mum that is massively underserved all the more baffling. They were off to such a good start with her and Cherry in the Christmas special too. Another casualty of the shortened episode count, I think.
It is a bit sad that in a series so genuinely full of new ideas and infectious energy the finale turned out to be one hour of extended key jangling :(
You've honestly nailed every single criticism I've had about "Empire of Death", from the immediate nerfing of the stakes by killing off the supporting cast, to the clunky pacing, to the complete wasting of Sutekh's potential, to the mishandling of the answers to the mystery of Ruby's origin. It's not the worst finale I've seen in post-2005 Doctor Who, but it's honestly really distressing that I can best describe my perspective on it as "barely better than The Timeless Children". This is easily the worst non-Chibnall finale, bafflingly inept and a total waste of an episode that actually gets worse and worse the more I think about it. Even when RTD's shat the bed with his previous finales, he's usually succeeded on three fronts (fast-paced action-packed spectacle; compelling Doctor-villain interactions; emotionally-heavy beats), and this episode sees him completely mess up on all three:
- The first five minutes have a really fast and urgent sense of pacing, and the final defeat of Sutekh is a suitably bizarre and ridiculously entertaining beat, but everything in between is a dull tedious mess that sees the characters spend most of the runtime watching a much better story.
- While previous RTD finales allowed the Doctor to build some kind of rapport with the main villains (the Emperor, the Cult of Skaro, the Master, Davros, the Toymaker), there's barely any scenes that allowed Fifteen to build a relationship with Sutekh, not helped by the character being a big CGI dog rather than a tangible performance by the likes of John Simm, Julian Bleach or Neil Patrick Harris.
- I'd argue the emotional beat of Ruby's reunion with her mother worked very well, but that's mostly due to Millie Gibson's performance; the character is so underdeveloped and the lack of any connection between Ruby's "character arc" and the actual narrative of the episode means it doesn't feel earned (Mr TARDIS Reviews did a good thread on Twitter that sums this up perfectly).
It's disappointing because I'd actually been really positive on this series beforehand; I didn't like "Space Babies" very much, but I loved "Boom", enjoyed "The Devil's Chord", "Dot and Bubble" and "Rogue", and can definitely appreciate "73 Yards for its creativity and ambition, even if it didn't quite work for me. But after "The Legend of Ruby Sunday", I knew this episode had to stick the landing in order to make the overall series work, and it failed in an embarrassing way. Aside from the strong production values, the great scene with that wasteland woman, and the excellent performances of Ncuti Gatwa, Millie Gibson, Bonnie Langford and Gabriel Woolf, there's virtually nothing redeemable about it.
On the plus side, there's another Moffat-penned Christmas special coming up, complete with Nicola Coughlan guest starring, so hopefully that will be able to wash this stink out of my mouth
I'm afraid RTD, Moffat and even Chibnall all come from the same echo chamber where they clap each other on the back and giggle about how clever they are. They keep overusing the same story beats, even when the concept of an episode is very creative. By all means, let RTD run the show, but please get some new writers in the mix!!!
People who think his finales were always like this are just missing the point entirely. The point is: It used to not be *this bad*, because either A) there were some kind of lasting consequences, usually for our main characters but also usually for other people as well. and B) What was bullshit was usually in service of a greater emotional payoff
I also love how we've been told over and over again that the reason Russel did the bi-generation is so he can leave the Doctors trauma and guilt in the past, and I'm sorry, I know you can have new traumas and new things to go through, but Ncuti's belief that he is responsible for the universes death is so ridiculous.. No reasonable person would genuinely consider Sutekh making the Doctor their unknowing accomplice his fault. and Mel's and Ruby's reassurance, as obvious as they were, still rang hollow because I would not expect anybody to blame themselves the way the Doctor did. I would expect him to get angry and upset, especially with himself, but genuinely feeling responsible and claiming that "he thought it was fun" (which, that's not what killed them Doctor?) feels like a step too far. It feels like Russel still writing the Doctor in Time War guilt mode
Pfft…I mean…where do you even start with this?
SO glad that you basically articulated my thoughts on the comparisons to TLJ. I’ve spoken to other people about this and said that Star Wars wasn’t explicitly telling us that Rey was super important. That was all fan projection. This series went out of its way to tell us that Ruby’s mother was important. No one watched The Church on Ruby Road, saw the first five minutes and, on hearing that Ruby was a foundling, thought “Ah-HA! Obviously she’s a secret Time Lord!”. We only started speculating when they made it VERY clear that Ruby’s origin mattered. You can’t explicitly tell the audience that something matters and then tell them that it only mattered because THEY thought it mattered. That feels like it’s one step away from the writer telling the audience that they were stupid to care about something that THEY TOLD THEM to care about. It feels utterly hand-wavy in a way that “Rey’s parents were deadbeat nobodies” never stooped to. That felt like an interesting development. This feels like a practical joke.
It feels like gaslighting... like when someone goads you into an argument and then tells you you're just too sensitive once they've succeeded. I watch shows like this to escape from things like that, and I'm sure I'm not alone, it might sound silly to some, but for people who've experienced that kind of abuse it felt like a betrayal, and having it be delivered by the Doctor was the sour rotten cherry on top... cheers for that, Russell 👍... 😔
@@TheCagedCorvidsorry you’ve had to endure that kind of abuse. I’ve felt what you’re talking about myself and, whilst this episode didn’t remind me of any of that in the moment, I can totally see your point and utterly empathise.
“It was the wrong anagram,” it wasnt an anagram, it was a portmanteau
My headcannon is that hope is what made the memory tardis solid. That sounds brings hope to everyone that hears it.
I feel like this Series they didn't like the set for the proper TARDIS. I mean, in every episode you barely see them doing stuff inside the TARDIS besides a little bit at the end of each episode. And suddently in the episode where there is a lot of TARDIS stuff they went to the Remembered TARDIS set.
Just feels like we haven’t had time to
In The Giggle when 15 said 14's TARDIS didn't have chairs, I was like "Yes! They get it! This set needs something to facilitate hanging around in the TARDIS like 13's didn't have!" And then the only difference between 14's and 15's was the jukebox... why explicitly mention chairs and not add chairs?? Turns out the chairs were just a metaphor
When RTD was asked to become showrunner for the new seasons, he should've said "Sorry, I'm not really good at this anymore, I'll probably make trash, find someone else"
Remember when UNIT dragged a journalist into a van in Star Beast... immediate alarm bells but now 10 episodes later i guess that was just meant to be a bit of a whimsy moment like "oh unit, what are they like !"
I always think about this, just a quietly evil moment that the show has no interest in
If RTD’s goal was to subvert the expectation that Ruby had a special heritage by revealing her mom was actually a normal person, directly inspired by The Last Jedi, I would like to point out that Moffat did it better in Series 7b. That Series also starts with a Christmas special, followed by 8 episodes and an extremely underwhelming finale. However, for all its faults, the Impossible Girl mystery is adequately explained and attempts to critique the Doctor for treating her like a mystery box. The twist throughout that series is that she’s just an ordinary girl after all and the Doctor can’t accept it. It also spends a good deal of time on the front end over the mystery of Clara’s mom. This current season sets up a ton of stuff that goes unexplained after the reveal of Ruby’s mom. I think these two series are remarkably similar and, while I enjoy Series 14 more, Series 7b handles its mystery box way better (did not have that on my 2024 bingo card). Hopefully some of the Ruby mystery will be better explained next season with her dad’s potential introduction. Not holding my breath though
I think we were more forgiving of pants finales when we had more episodes. It's clear that a lot of the issues with this season has been from only having 8. Considering the whole making 2 seasons before the first one even aired why oh why, if he wanted to BUILD towards things, didn't he do it over those 16 episodes? We could have had our fun nonsense espisodes, our dark brooding episodes, our celebrity historical, scattered in-between series arc stuff, and even had time off for a bit of meaningless christmas fluff in-between. I think we all feel let down because there was so much good in this season and it was, in the end, wasted.
I don’t understand the complicated way RTD tried to bring in the Memory TARDIS™️ when there’s literally *already an extra TARDIS sitting around in the Nobles’ backyard.* I would’ve just had them go there since Sutekh had the one at UNIT, and you could explain that Fourteen downsized and only uses his TARDIS now to take old friends on trips down memory lane (implying that Fourteen’s timey wimey “rehab” could allow him to go back through *all* old incarnations of the Doctor that needed rest and maybe eventually become the Curator)
Yes! Especially as it's probably close-by, as I doubt Rose Noble has THAT big of a commute to work. So weird.
This would have been so much better
Yeah, but Russel's already forgotten that. Not to mention the whole thing about Sutec actually being attached to that old tardis. So, did the Toy Maker clone a second Sutec? Or did Sutec just switch tardises? ... Nobody knows, including Russell.
Reminds of a Shakespeare line from Macbeth. 'It is a tale told by an idiot, filled with sound and fury...signifying nothing.'
Wow this was sure worth the wait!
I knew it would be!
... unlike the finale itself ;)
The Susan Triad angle is definitely underbaked. I wanted the reason she was everywhere to be more important and interesting.
Again, an idea that they seem to have been handed on a plate just to overlook
@@Joe_Brennan_ The performer made her so sympathetic right before she changed into a mummy person. She seemed desperate for help and answers. It was very compelling…for about five minutes.
Does anyone else say “love you too” at the end of Joes videos or is that just me?
I do
This is an excellent review, got an incredible way of articulating and fairly dissecting this episode. Great stuff Joe.
That’s very kind of you to say, thank you
I think if you'd described this season to me in broad terms (leaning into mythology and the abstract, rejecting sci fi and doctor who tropes in a way that is socially and politically aware, unafraid to be loudly weird, surreal and openly queer) I would think it sounds like RTD's most interesting and best series yet. But this season has been executed in a way that is so annoyingly self-congratulatory, obsessive over its own superficial subversions and ultimately serving the same thematic beats that RTD has been hitting since 2005. Its like someone has introduced more conceptual/symbolic storytelling to him and he's just lost his fucking mind. He has no idea what's even real anymore, what even is a story? the reveal of Ruby's mum and the Doctor's following speech feels like the musings of a man who has just discovered metaphysics. You're exactly right that this episode feels like what people mocked moffat for except this time the doctor actually does turn to the audience and explain how clever the story is.
I wish people would focus a little less on the episode count because looking back I think the series has done an abysmal job keeping these stories relevant to Ruby's arc. As much as I like Boom and Rogue (my 2 favourite episodes this season) their existence I think serves the season poorly. I firmly believe that you can do the story of Ruby Sunday and her adventures with the Doctor in 8 episodes (9 really) if the show cared at all about exploring her abandonment. Outside of 73 yards the series seems more inclined to give emotional moments to the Doctor and his emotional conflicts consistently. Even though season 1 loudly proclaims that it's doing weird and new things it refuses to shake the Doctor's melodrama in service of Ruby. Why not invert the dynamic of series 1 and have the Doctor learning about Ruby and her emotional conflicts over time with each episode revealing something new about her background? The only reason I can think of not to do this is because that is not how doctor/companion dynamics are supposed to work, so how attached is rtd to convention really?
There's a strange absence of drama in this series and by that I don't just mean that there is no drama I mean that there is the seeds of drama planted throughout the series without the intent of drawing conversation from it. You pointed out that the Doctor brings up some very valid points about her mother and her failure to reach out but following that the doctor has this strange personal sadness caused from Ruby's successful reconnection. Back in tCoRR there's that moment where the Doctor, post-TTC makes the decision for Ruby that she is better off not knowing the identity of her mother and I think thats such a good drive for drama that is never picked up on but I almost wonder if in some variant of the script there was more conflict on that front? it would make those last scenes make more sense for him. Its the doctor providing ruby with the closure he could never have had for himself. Which I think is interesting and new but strangely absent from the actual text??? and even if its just a subtle character throughline I think its more interesting to bring that to the forefront that there is this underlying jealousy between them, or perhaps an instinct from the doctor to provide Ruby with what he couldn't have and that's why he cares. Conversations around truth and who has the right to withhold the truth is also incredibly relevant to the other themes in this series and could complement the afforementioned speech (with tweaking).
Rubbish innit. Good video though mate I liked a lot of the points you brought up and there were quite a lot of things you mentioned that I hadn't thought about.
The only parts of Tales from the TARDIS I could watch were those on TH-cam. It was criminal that only people in the UK were allowed to watch the whole mini-series. What I saw of Tales from the TARDIS, I fell in love with. IMO, the ratings for Tales from the TARDIS would've skyrocketed if that series had been internationally streamed.
I was so disappointed i went out to the CINEMA to see that utter mess of a finale. I turned to the lad to my right who also rocked up alone and was like 'That was... okay?' and he was also pretty dissapointed that Ruby was just normal 😂
The security system thing reminded me of when the blue guy sorry i forget his name from a good man goes to war when he states hes the one who sold the software to the monks
Dorium’s head box was actually in the memory TARDIS
makes way more sense than the Doctor designing a security system in the 2040s for a DNA databank
A lot of this series felt like I was watching a parody of doctor who rather than the real thing (minus Boom, Moffat reigns supreme)
There were so many points where this could have gone well. The mother reveal seemed added on. While the destruction of Sutek "made sense", it felt like something an American writer would have done (I'm a U.S.ian and am constantly disappointed.)
I really enjoyed this analysis on the episode, I meant to comment this when I saw it when it was posted, but it was a really great breakdown and I appreciate how you managed to encapsulate everything without being nitpicky 😊
RTD's boomer progressivism is definitely starting to wear a bit thin, especially if you've read the scripts' description of Rose Noble.
It's like he knows the theory behind progress, but doesn't quite get it
Exactly, if you want to truly be inclusive you must actually take the time to write a compelling and interesting character for them.
Maybe its in a part of the video i havent gotten to yet, but what are those? I havent read the scripts...
I really appreciate that his heart is in the right place but he’s so clumsy about it all that you wish he’d use those good intentions to find people who actually know what they’re talking about to tell those stories
@trenchardjj -- OMG, this! It's so terrible. If you're going to have inclusion, please just do it well!
Pyramids of Mars and Satan Pit work so well because they really build up the hype of these all-powerful malevolent gods, so the idea of them being set free creates some real stakes. With Sutekh being set free here and killing the universe, like you say it instantly deflates tension because you think ok this will be reversed in 40 minutes - and his being so easily defeated undercuts all the hype of "the One Who Waits"/the most powerful god.
The other 'pantheon' episodes, while not perfect, work a lot better - the Toymaker and Maestro both had a plan that wasn't instant-death so there was time to find and exploit their weaknesses. In EoD Sutekh shows up, kills everyone and you're left thinking, ok cool 🤷♂
This 🙏
Yeah it’s definitely the limitations on Sutekh and The Beast that create the most dread and intrigue. Him showing up and immediately having immense power just doesn’t work.
Haven't watched the whole video yet so you may say this, but yes, overall it was a mess and probably Ncuti's least convincing performance far. However I was moved to tears by Sian Clifford's cameo scene and Ruby meeting her birth mother. The plot was total nonsense but "I think my daughter died, didn't she? And I forgot" hit like a ton of bricks and reminded me how good Russell can be.
I do bring up the Sian Clifford scene, a real shining highlight
@@Joe_Brennan_Got to it just after I posted the comment! She's such a great actor. I'd love to see her as a future Doctor one day. Think she would be ace.
I'm just glad the Ood got brought back. Theyve been through enough
That’s true actually, good episode
@@Joe_Brennan_ all praise the Ood, the safety of our singing squid mates is confirmed
@ellisr.kinnear164 for now, you just know he's going to use them in an episode next season and absolutely shank it.
Out of all the seasons of Doctor Who...this has been one of them 😬
The 'Sutekh chilling on the TARDIS' memes make it all worth it
I dunno about making it all worth it, but definitely the funniest thing to come out of it all lol
Amazing insight and points! Great analysis - thought the same about Ruby's elemental snow power freezing the sand particles...
i think it's a shame that season 2 was filmed before they could get any feedback on season 1. Even though I enjoyed S1 for the most part and I'm sure S2 will also be very good, I think that there will still be some similar mistakes that would have been avoided had they filmed it later.
(though I get that they probably didn't have a choice and it was likely a disney thing)
I missed my train by 10 seconds and have to wait an hour for the next one. Cheers for making something to watch and can't wait for the Era's review
Great video! This is pure conjecture but this season of Doctor Who feels like Disney notes RTD had to get on board with. It’s a bit like having all ingredients to make a Fantastic gourmet meal but just use them to make pop tarts.
So happy you got to go to the eras tour!!
I could almost forgive the ridiculous way they defeat Sutehk (taking him for walkies) if it actually meant Ruby’s sacrifice stuck. When she breaks the monitor and says “You great big god of nothing,” it kinda actually makes the rest of the scene hit, because she just gave up her chance of learning her mother in order to defeat him. But then she finds out the answer ten minutes later. So Sutehk made literally no impact on the characters’ lives at all. He might as well not have shown up. Actually, no. He made Ruby’s life better! She knows her birth mom now. He wasn’t a destroyer, he was a benefit. It’s so toothless. The only negative consequences in this story come from the Doctor’s personal hangups, which come out of nowhere. With all of that being said, make the method of Sutehk’s defeat at least interesting and impactful.
Usually RTD finales have consequences that reach beyond the immediate, either for the characters or the world (ideally both), but this one just doesn't MEAN anything going forward. Defeating Sutekh (even though he's a boring, juvenile villain that should not have been the Big Bad to begin with, just my take) should have required some sort of sacrifice. The Toymaker and Maestro are defeated in ways that use their powers against them, so why not make some sort of life sacrifice to defeat the god of death? But the Doctor and Ruby really don't lose anything, there's no depth emotionally, everything rolls off their backs. Awful faceplant to a genuinely solid collection of episodes (except "Rogue" lol)
I see the finale as being like a failed version of the 3 part finale of series 3
Utopia: A seemingly unrelated episode (How's harold saxon going to appear at the end of time?) where the doctor is confronting something in his past (captain jack) that ends with the reveal of the master.
Sound of the drums: The characters dealing with the reveal of the villain, finding out he's been ingrained in their past (harold saxon arriving even before the runaway bride), attempting to deal with him, only to fail and cause untold death and destruction.
Last of the time lords: Starts some time after the end of the previous episode, as we see the death, destruction, and new status quo under the villain. Resulting in our heros causing something to reverse everything that happened, bringing dead characters back and reversing the death and destruction caused.
Episodes also includes an old villain introduced early in whos' lifespan whos making their first return in the modern era, an old companion, who's alot older than when they were actually a companion (Jack being immortal and being like 200?) and has the current companion leave at the end of the episode to be with their family.
.
Legend of ruby sunday: An episode seemingly unrelated (From the gods) where the doctor is confronting something in his past (susan), that ends with the reveal of sutek
Empire of death First half: The characters dealing with the reveal of the villain, finding out he's been ingrained in their past (attached to the tardis, and the noises the tardis has been making, + his susan twist servants), attempting to deal with him, only to fail, barely escaping as the villain causes untold death and destruction.
Empire of Death Second half: Starts some time after the end of the previous eisode, as we see the death, destruction and new status quo under the villain, resulting in ut hereos causing something to reverse everything that happened, brining dead characters back and revesing the death and destruction caused.
episodes also includes an old villain introduced early in whos' lifespan who making their first return in the modern era, an old companion who's alot older than when they were actually a companion (mel being over 36 years older than when she was a companion) and has the current companion leave at the end of the episode to be with their family.
I wish that I could unsee this season's finale.
Having been so constantly & callously trolled and misdirected throughout this series, only to be given throwaway non-resolutions drags down and cheapens much of what had been good , intriguing, and even great as the season unfolded.
I’ll be honest I actually really liked it, hated how Yasmin Finney was used though. She was basically payed to be a side character but in an extras role
Just a baffling inclusion
@@Joe_Brennan_ RTD is known for having companions just do basically nothing in finales like Journeys End with the massive cast but this time it was just so confusing
The goodbye scene really didn’t work for me because Fifteen was uncharacteristically standoffish and closed-off with Ruby. Like they have been super open with each other and he has been very willing to show his feelings, and he won’t say “I love you” back??
Even though he's been telling others he loves them all the way through both of these episodes (Kate, Mel, Rose I think), in front of Ruby, or even directly to her. If it's not explained in season 2 that's a real slap in the face.
I am glad i noped out after 73 yards. I knew when that wasnt resolved and left open that it didnt bode well for the last 2 episodes. It felt like this season didnt have the correct amount if draft editing for the scripts.
Rogue and Dot and Bubble were good!!!
Sutekh should have said “Sutekh, what a joke” then let go of the Tardis and wear the Beast’s horns in his honor.
Surikh Flag
I found it really funny that sutekh didn't resist at all when getting leashed 😂
Kinky dog
Well, he's no match against .......... intelligent rope! LOL
@@Joe_Brennan_ tbf if ruby put a leash on me 👉👈 I'd let her drag me through the time vortex
Haven’t watched the video yet, and judging by the title we’re gonna really disagree, but I’ve really enjoyed your videos this series, Joe. I’ll really miss them!
Thank you mate, I’m so glad you’ve liked them. Hopefully it won’t feel too long before they come back around!
48:06
That was the most stable, pitch-perfect, timbre-consistent 'ahh' I've ever heard. You're like a human auto-tune. That's incredible. Loved your review as always, but that was a stand-out performance that would be unjust to leave unappreciated.
Did RTD forget about the snow??
Craziest thing is how people say this is like his older finales. It really isnt. His previous finales just had that one element to solve the plot that was a bit out of nowhere, but everything else worked pretty well. Which is definitely not the case here. In fact, Id say the whole season arc breaks apart during the finale. Why could Ruby make it snow? Idk. Why does Sutekh die? Idk. Why is Ruby's mom wearing a cloak? Idk. Why is Sutekh so interested in her? IDK. And I could go on and on
RTD also wrote Dot and bubble and 73 Yards, and I thought both were excellent.
Definitely worth keeping in mind
Theres a huge distinction between something not entirely making sense and something not being satisfying.
Bruce Wayne somehow being back in Gotham in The Dark Knight Rises: doesn’t really make sense, but is entirely satisfying in the context of the story.
Jon Snow not ending up on the throne despite being the true heir because politics: makes perfect sense, but feels horribly unsatisfying.
Palpatine returning from the dead without any explanation and orchestrating all events from behind the scenes: makes no sense whatsoever AND is completely narratively unsatisfying, thus achieving a state I will now call “Perfect Awful”.
I still liked the season overall, but... 😬
Would be much easier to enjoy the overall without this sad final note
Same. A fun ride overall.
Same here. I thought the season was building towards a truly sensational climax, but this was a damp squib. "The Battle of Ranskoor av Kolos" was a lame finale, and still objectively the weakest I've seen, but in the context of the uneven S11 it didn't feel remotely as disappointing as "Empire of Death".
@@ftumschk it helped that Series 11’s finale was fairly disconnected from the rest, quite easily forgotten about. And the longer episode count meant you had much more to focus on
8:27 Actually RTD said in behind the scenes this set was made for the finale then they thought to use for Tales later so they made this small for no reason
Bizarre!
My whole thing with this finale is this: If Russell T Davies really thought that the story of a girl abandoning her daughter to give her a better life was an interesting one, then he should have just told that story. When all is said and done, I really don't see why this story needed to be told using mystery box storytelling. The only reason seems to be for the sake of subversion. And if this finale is willing to sacrifice a compelling family drama for the sake of tricking the audience, then this really does look like a finale with warped priorities.
I was disappointed but not surprised. Deux ex machina and little consequences have been a hallmark of RTD's finales. Shame because overall I was quite enjoying this series. Sad note to end on.
And as for Ruby. Well her parents may have been nobodies, but I'm sure we'll have a revelation about her grandfather in the next series to explain it. I mean this time I'd welcome it so...
The way to do the whole Doctor thinks the companion is special but they’re not thing is what they did with Clara. Her importance isn’t made into nothing, but it’s also not because she’s inherently important, it’s because it hasn’t happened yet but will have had happened. But crucially there is an explanation, it’s not whatever this was.
Incredible review, well worth the wait - thank you so much!
Never heard of Tales of the tardis so I liked the memory tardis
I guess that’ll be the most common experience, it’s just a shame they’ve spoiled it for the people watching everything they’ve put out
@@Joe_Brennan_ oh I agree that sucks. This episode was a massive fucking disappointment it feels like it's a story that should be a doctor who book and I don't mean that in a bad way I just think it doesn't work visually
Very interesting to ask how talented RTD actually is. Having seen a lot of Russell's other work (and being in the process of watching all of it), there's a common thread that runs through everything good he's written, that being IMO really strong characters (e.g. Bob & Rose, Cucumber). When it comes to the bad stuff, there seem to be a lot of different reasons something could be bad: none of my criticisms of Years & Years would apply to DW Season 1.
Yeah.. This was disappointing asf
But enough about my video!
@@Joe_Brennan_ ah man I love that I can actually like hear you when I read your replies 😂
@@joeeeee256 this is great feedback, one of my biggest fears is people reading my words in their own voice. I must invade the internal monologue.
wow this was sure worth the wait!
Thank you for saying this unprompted
While it was a bit rushed, I personally liked how they had Sutekh, they made him feel legit terrifying
Yup, the exact same moment for me too. Once everyone dies, there's zero jeorpardy. Death is an inconvenience just waiting for the reset button. What do you know! They found it, and nothing that happened mattered, everthing was exactly the same afterwards, no consequences... just what every fan craved!?!
Seriously, *WTF!!*
Best of luck with your theatrical exploits! Love to hear about them
I loved all of these videos, tysm for making them all
You mentioned in one of your other videos that the relationship between 12 and Clara is one of your favourites and I really wanna hear more of your thoughts on that topic
Full disclaimer, I’m someone who loves Heaven Sent but totally doesn’t understand the hype around Hell Bent, but I really wanna hear what you have to say about it ^^
Thank you, I’m so glad you’ve enjoyed them. I’m currently working through a rewatch of New Who and definitely want to sink my teeth into 12 and Clara when I get back round to them
perhaps the cultural appropriation comment meant that Egyptians were appropriating Sutehk's culture
A very funny way to read it
excellent video john!
I would’ve bought Kate dying, but once you see Rose and the other kid dying, you know it’s gonna be reversed.
That was my exact thought -- they're not gonna kill two kids (on screen) like that.
Why were people still covered in sand when they are restored? Is it dead skin cells 😅
Yucky!
WHICH doctor was at the downfall of Roger Ap William? Because he states he was there but he doesnt state which version of him.
I’d go with 12, seems like his kind of thing
I like that it allows us to headcanon it. I hope it's the 9th or 11th Doctor.
7 maybe? I can picture 7 doing it.
@@wendyheatherwood Yeah, Seven is 100% a bringing-down-the-government kinda Doctor!
As a US viewer the Memory TARDIS fell flat for different reasons. Now not only are we in a finale about a villain from an era of the show that’s harder to watch here, but a good chunk is referencing a spin off we literally can’t access. I don’t know who this is for but I suspect it might just be Russell.
Remember that one guy who would show up on your forum or discord, and just piss everybody off with the garbage they talked before going 'Haha! I am the puppet master, and you all played my game!'. That's RTD.
Just going to pick you up on Roger Ap Gwilliam here:
He doesn't only exist in the divergent timeline. He was mentioned, and as the most dangerous PM Britain ever had, before that Divergent timeline started. He still exists in the main timeline.
I love the RTD era finales, but I feel like people have forgotten that this is almost exactly like what they were. Last minute ass-pulls and vague technobabble explanations to resolve the story to make way for more emotional character work.
The sci-fi parts never really worked in his previous finales. The Doctor 'integrated with the archangel network's matrices' so he can now rejuvenate himself with the power of prayer? That's bollocks. Donna can hack Davros and the Daleks by flipping switches in the Crucible's basement, all because she's human with Time Lord intelligence? Rubbish. Even the okay ones like Doomsday fall apart under scrutiny - the loss of Rose and her family could have easily been avoided if they just went inside the TARDIS, as that didn't get sucked into the void. The Parting of the Ways one is sort-of alright, but it's a bit of a jump from 'the heart of the TARDIS can de-age you' to 'the heart of the TARDIS can give you godlike powers'.
So this is more of the same, however it feels a lot more rushed due to 5 less episodes than series 1-4 had each, and less of an emotional connection to Ruby's plight. So it doesn't connect the same way.
My mum loved the episode though.
This
No, this is NOT "more of the same". Here, the whole mystery is just a lie, RTD cheated by showing weird things happening around Ruby and her mom, and then congratulated himself for misleading the audience... If the rope was the only made up thing in the episode that would be more than fine, just like RTD1 finales. I dont need to make the whole commentary about suspension of disbelief right? The worst Imo, is how Sutekh has been there since Pyramids of Mars and how he reveals himself and doesnt kill the doctor because he is so intrigued by Ruby's mom. LMAO. It's like if the daleks spared the doctor in bad wolf because they wanted to know what the bad wolf is.
I was on-board with all of UNIT dying as I thought that they were setting up Shirley or Osgood to assume command but the second that they killed Ruby’s mom, I knew it was going to be reversed by the episode’s end.
Overall, not the worst finale, but I don’t think New Who has had a good one since Bad Wolf (though The Doctor Falls came close). It doesn’t change my thoughts of this being an overall great season, but it was very disappointing after the first part.
I'd love to see Osgood again... but I REALLY don't want RTD writing her...
This episode was more anniversary and feels more as an anniversary than the thing marketed by the BBC and RTD as the 60th which mostly celebrated series 4, specially with the "clickbait episode" Wild Blue Yonder. I loved the memory TARDIS and nods to the past
Hope you enjoyed the eras tour! Im going later this year myself
As someone who had never heard of Tales of the Tardis I did think the set of the memory Tardis was amazing and yes crowded but that kind of was funny cause it finally felt more like an actual police box for once.
the whole "it's important because we made it important" feels like RTD trying to do Moffat style storytelling and failing at it
at least the next episode is actually Moffat thank god
I loved the VFX for the Time Vortex incorporating a little bit of every previous era’s design aesthetic-cloudy with lightning like 11’s, flashes of blue and red like 9&10’s, purple and abstract like 13’s-now that’s what I call retroactive continuity!
Love the vid - and Jekyll and Hyde was great! Came to see it Thursday. 😂
I’m glad you enjoyed them both! I thought I recognised you in the audience actually from our interaction at Vue
I used to have that same pineapple shirt, great taste my friend.
I think one of the main issues with ruby's mother being normal is that, even if you accept that the belief gives her super powers, it still doesn't feel like it makes sense. Like, the result of ruby wanting to know who her mother is has the result of... Making it harder for her to know who her mother is. Why is the universe being so unnecessarily cruel to her?
Surely if her want to know her mother's identity resulted in something supernatural, it should result in something that would help in finding it out?
going into the finale I thought Ruby was going to be a fictional character & the whole series has been set in the Land of Fiction with 15 taking on Rose as a companion and slay Sutekh
It tickles me that the BBC is so adamant that it's the Remembered TARDIS when I've only ever seen fans call it the Memory TARDIS because it's far less clunky to say.
I take some of your points, primarily that everyone crumbling to dust should have been the cliffhanger, and that Ruby's snow should have been the foil for the sand. But overall I thought it was an okay episode, maybe a bit underwhelming, but I didn't really think it was terrible I do agree with you that some of the things that were built up to were not paid off. So we'll see where it goes in season 2.