The Worst Finale Ever. | Empire Of Death: Doctor Who Finale Review / Reaction
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
- Sutekh?! Doctor Who: Empire Of Death is a terrible Season 1 Finale that fails to satisfy any of its mysteries. Russell T Davies should be dissapointed in himself and do better.
Join Steven and Dan as they tear the episode apart. Did they like ANYTHING?
#DoctorWho #EmpireOfDeath #RubySunday
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I'll make you more angry about this episode. How does the compulsory dna drive happen in the future if sutekh kills the world in 2024. Surely that would erase any future timeline from that point so the dna drive and roger ap william never existed to implement it.
Done 😁
Dodnt they explain Susan Triad was a normal.womannSutelh CAPTURED a dn just wxploited and extended the perception filter toncreate her perspnas..so doesnt thst resolve that plotholes/criticism youbhad? Hope you can respond. Thanks for sharing
Weird how when the Tardis was a literal human woman who could talk to the Doctor, she didn't say, "Oh, by the way, there's a god glued on my back with the same voice as this House villain we're fighting today, mind dealing with that sometime?"
Or when Rose literally became a goddess herself, she didn't just vaporize Sutekh into dust, given she was capable of granting eternal life and shoving herself into all of time and space.
Or when the Tardis blew up, destroying the Universe, Sutekh, God of Death incarnate, apparently wasn't even remotely involved despite being literally there the whole time.
Did Sutekh also kill Rose's parallel Universe, since the Tardis has been there as well? Or that space-between universes when 4 dropped off Romana with that species that can walk between dimensions, or that other universe where Adric came from, and so on and so on and so on....
This might actually have more canon/lore holes than the Timeless Child did.
House and Sutekh aren't played by the same actor.
Again, like the Timeless Child, it was good idea, but was badly written.
Doctor who and continuity don’t really mesh over multiple seasons lmao
House was voiced by Michael Sheen, Sutekh is Gabriel Woolfe, who also voiced the beast in the Satan Pit.
however when House possessed the TARDIS you would think he would have found it already occupied by a moody Osiran.
Or why didn't the Doctor notice Susan Twist in every world before, but in this season he happens to run into her every single episode
Wait till the big reveal of season 2 when we find out that Mrs Flood is just an ordinary old lady with a vivid imagination and mild dementia.
Ruby; We need to go back to ancient Egypt to find out why she was soaking in old piss
RTD writes 5 parter about Cybermen in Egypt
The reveal; She was just soaked in old piss but the cybermen thought she was very special
Ruby's Mother was pointing at some Depends that can be seen if you look at the house very far away
She was never breaking the 4th wall, just staring out into the street, talking to herself
Is it even confirmed we're ever going to see Mrs. Flood again?
@alfiescheinman581 she looks directly into the camera and says "what, you've never seen a TARDIS before?"
@carealoo744 yeah shes been spotted on filming locations and she says herself in an interview that we will have answers about her in season 2
@@burgunbeerd Oh well that's good- I would have found it hilarious if she just doesn't appear from now on
So sutech cared more about rubys mum then he did about: the crack in Amy’s wall, the whole Clara season 7 drama, the timeless child, badwolf, rose coming back in season 4 and so many other plots.
They had the perfect excuse, sutech was flung to the farthest reaches of space and when the doctor and Donna landed the wild blue wonder that’s when he latched onto the tardis
I'm not the biggest fan of the finale, but Sutekh actually got an answer for most of those just by following the Doctor + Ruby was different with the whole snow thing that was happening. One could also argue that he wanted or needed more planets to destroy and he wasn't recovered yet.
Just because you get an answer to your question, does that make the question nor the answer any less stupid. This entire episode and series was garbage.@@mareiramv
Would have been a good explanation that Sutekh was dispersed across the timestream rather than died in pyramids of Mars and as the Doctor travelled in the vortex over the regenerations. he slowly reformed around the TARDIS.
Every writer shits over the original series Cannon. A blue yonder reference would have been so much better
Excellent response!
Ruby being no one is honestly worse than Rey being no one because at least Ruin Johnson never told us "EPISODE 8 WILL HAVE THE BIG REVEAL!"
Agreed
And at least episode 8 had that hint in the cave scene to counterbalance the obvious change of intentions from episode 7. Here it's just 8 episodes of heavy hints that are simply discarded lol
It was purely fan expectation based on how everybody and their grandmother elfed a skywalker at. some point. The plot never revolved around finding out who are the parents and where their spacetime magic is coming from
Honestly, this is the very worst finale Russel T Davies has written. Love and Monsters and Space Babies was bad, but this finale infuriates you and questions how RTD is even a writer. His writing relies heavily on coincidence and conveniences, often making no logical sense.
Ruby's mother being ordinary was actually the only thing I liked about the finale. I think her arc in general was pretty nice. It just absolutely didn't work as a plot point for the god of death erasing all life. To me, the characters aren't the problem here, it's the very bad action plot that makes no sense at all.
I'm absolutely sick of these writers existing in their little circle jerk bubble, completely out of touch with what people want from a story.
Why would anyone ever draw inspiration from The Last Jedi? It turned Star Wars into a streaming tv show.
To set up as many clues and breadcrumbs as Russel did and then turn round and say "oh well actually it's only important because you made it important" is disingenuous and shows nothing but contempt for the audience and the time they've invested in the show.
"You know what would have been scarier than nothing? Anything. " - Bart Simpson
SW7 wasn't horrible... it was at release the least good of the 7 main films... but it wasn't horrible.
Also, I spent a LOT of time with the speculation fest on who Rey's parents were prior to SW8 dumping on it. The two main ones were Obi-wan and Sheev, but both required massive leaps of logic. in the case of Obi-wan.... we had no idea how a child of his could have gotten there. 'cause... he just didn't live on that planet. In Sheev's case... she'd be a grand child, and that makes it easier to justify how she got there. And also fits with the hint in the first teaser for SW8. Luke does a monologue about how the kind of power Rey has was something he'd only seen once before.... He doesn't say "it was Palpatine"... but strongly implies it.
Which suggests to me that Palpatine was always meant to be the right answer. But Disney rewrote their own movies repeatedly... during filming... to change that. Oh also... who was Snoke? Yeah... that's a special rabbit hole.
@@marhawkman303No Ep 7 was. It just used stuff that was already known to fans to draw them in and then pull the carpet out to reveal nothing. This is JJ Abrahams we're talking about. Master of the mystery box of "fuck you".
@@dr.feelgoodmalusphillips2475 Yeah, but... the rug pull hadn't happened yet, soo...
@marhawkman303 A setup is still a setup, mate. "Oh, we're doing something so devious." "Yes but we haven't done the devious thing yet, so does that make us devious?" Absolutely sound logic...
Oh how it changed... I remember the time in Doctor Who when ordinary people became extraordinary by doing extraordinary clever and brave things. That showed that anyone can become extraordinary via decisions actions. And now no action is required. "You're special and important because you think you're special and important".
P.s. all this season and especially the finale is such a garbage when it comes to writing and acting that it even makes Chibnall's era look not so bad. And that's saying something.
I didnt enjoy it. I dont care anymore. I've been critical since chinball (even with the 60th) but id like to think i at least put thought in my takes (im even known for straight up essays when replying to comments) and this...
This...
Is pure crap. I hate this. No nuance. Hate it. This finale is awful. The plot is bad. The character development is non-existant. It punishes you for waiting. It punishes you for thinking. It punishes you for caring.
My suspension of disbelief didnt last 5 seconds. My investment is dead.
Yeah this show is hot trash unfortunately
This finale makes Plan 9 from Outer Space look like Dune 2.
In Pyramids of Mars Sutekh can kill someone with a simple glance, his eyes flash and they die. Or he can stare at them and do his whole "My mind is in yours" and take over their body as a meat puppet. So the moment they started leashing him should have ended badly. Had that actually been Sutekh that was a really dumb plan.
RTD has used Sutekh's name but nothing else..
It was so awful I was truly taken aback. Just abysmal.
Agreed
When the images of Tom Baker and Sarah came on it only made me long for the days when Dr Who was actually an excellent program.
In the finale of Pyramids of Mars we had an Osiris riddle and use of time-space relativity (2 minutes for radio waves to travel from Earth to Mars). Here we have "intelligent glove" and "intelligent rope". I guess those are the only intelligent things that are left in this show nowadays.
Plus dancing/fighting headphones thingamajiggy
But now that things can be solved with intelligent whatchamacallits, why not an intelligent sonic, that just solves any problem in the first 5 minutes of any episode. Then the rest of the episode can be devoted to soap opera tropes.
Mom pointing at the lamp post still doesnt make sense! The doctor was there with the TARDIS and Sutekh, in the flesh. They were literally blocking the sighnpost!
Another dumb case of audience gaslighting!..
This was so bad it’s hilarious. So RTD is saying it’s ok for children to use firearms? Not to mention working under the legal age limit? These whole nonsensical plot lines are stupid. Gatwa is bursting into tears nearly every episode and only Mel is the strong resilient one. RTD has ruined the Doctors characteristics. Laughably bad.
In all fairness children can’t use fire arms or work because their brains are fully formed. They don’t have the emotional intelligence to do these things. This dude is essentially an adult trapped inside a teens body. We are our brains at the end of the day, the skin suit and skeleton structure isn’t who we are. Maybe you don’t agree and that’s okay.
What I find truly ridiculous is that no 13-year old, no matter how gifted, could possibly be the Scientific Adviser to an international security/intelligence agency like UNIT. I couldn't even take Morris's predecessor (Shirley Bingham) seriously, as nothing she said or did gave any hint of her being a scientist. Ingrid Oliver, and indeed Moffat's writing, portrayed Osgood as a convincingly nerdy and intelligent person, but neither of those characteristics are present in the two CBeebies "scientists" that RTD2 has given us so far.
@@ftumschk Uh, dude... We don't go around referring to our cups of tea in milliliters, or discussing the some obscure fringe discovery on another topic when someone asks, "Do you have that file I wanted?". Scientists are people too.
As for the guns thing - I think he just heard a kid say they wanted guns or weapons in their wheelchair. I know I did growing up and it feels more like a "add it on for the kids" thing
@@tanepukenga1421 Uh, dude... I'm not sure how your post remotely relates to what I said in mine. I simply made the point that UNIT having Scientific Advisors straight out of CBeebies Central Casting is ridiculous.
@@ftumschk Yeah, I don't know why it pinged you when it was obviously for OP's points
How did the segway gun not just shoot the unit soldier in front of him. You can't aim up with that thing 😂😂
And you can clearly see he is shaking his Segway to mimic shooting and it looks Hilarious
@@DeusLucifer He is hilarious. Just another box-ticked.
6:03 ".. because Russell said so." This encapsulates why I thought this episode was bad. Too much of what happened can only be explained by "because that's what the writer wanted to happen." It's not based in character or world building or any established facts or events in-universe. It's just stuff the writer wanted to make happen and wrote it that way.
The worst part of this for me was that the pyramids of Mars was THE episode that got me hooked on Doctor Who when I was a kid. It's still my favorite storyline. Sutekh in this is just a cameo--he doesn't do anything but hump the tardis' leg. The most formidable foe of the doctor didn't have a plan, so the doctor didn't need a plan to defeat him. Of course, not giving Sutekh a large role left them enough time to chase mystery spoons.
Totally agree with the comments below saying it was garbage.
The Audacity of the Doctor to think himslef a god of life, when the whole season the only person hes saved was the villain in SpaceBabies. He has been incompetent, if anything, nearly getting Ruby killed while he was post twerk trying to get his end away.
Can someone please tell me why it snows? 😂
RTD is past it, he is very TIRED
Sutek has got nothing on RTD in terms of propensity for destruction.
As I already said elsewhere: Not me picturing Sutekh perched on top of the Tardis chilling through the Flux, the Pandorica, the bloody _TIME WAR_. What the actual fuck, Russell.
I gotta be honest. This soured almost the whole season for me. I feel like Russell T Davies basically mocked the audience for even theorizing Ruby's origins were anything extraordinary. I saw people speculating she was related to the Doctor, or she was created by the Lord of Fiction, or she was the daughter of Toymakers sister who was the queen of Time. All those theories would've been so much better. RTD said the Timeless Child would feed into the dynamic with Ruby, it didn't. He also said he'd do something with it and based on the 60s specials I thought the events of the Flux would come up. Basically I thought This entire thing was building towards the Doctor being at fault for all this happening, since the Flux and Wilde Blue Yonder. I thought fifteens arc was supposed to be making up for ruining the Universe by letting these gods in.
RTD said the tales of the Tardis would make sense after this and it didn't. How did the memory Tardis exist? Why were past versions of the Doctor meeting past companions? Dunno f#@* me right? I thought Ruby would have some kind of power over memories, create the memory Tardis to help the Doctor and give him closure with his past lives to energize him to defeat Sutekh. Nope Jesus Christ!
I also thought maybe Sutekh would be her father and Her mom pointed at him to warn him to stay away from her or the Doctor by bringing him to her. Nope she was pointing at a sign. TF is going on? And apparently Sutekh was on the Tardis since Tom baker but The Tardis never tried warning the Doctor or she didn't shake it off when The Tardis exploded, imploded, got her soul placed in a human body, became a paradox machine etc? Yeah right.
I just feel like all Russell did, everything he's done since he's been back has been, well because he could.
"Doctor who isn't supposed to make sense dont think about it too hard."
He completely just talked down to us the entire time. "Like oh If anyone's upset grow up it's Doctor who ". I can't believe everyone gave Moffat so much bs because Davies isn't any better. I grew up on Moffat so never had rose tinted glasses for RTD. And if next season's are anything like this I might have to step out. And I really don't want to. Ncuti and Millie deserved so much better.
I’m hoping he’s just having a bad first season like he did during his first run… but then I think, wait why do I have to accept that? Why can’t he just deliver a good story? The fans deserve better.
@@J_ads2000 100% agree
Wrong THIS is what Doctor Who has ALWAYS been about! NOrmal beings saving the day. Every other episode is a normal person saving the day.,... Ruby it's perfect that she is a simple human, Jo Grant was a simple human, and her love shielded the doctor versus Azal, as strong as Sutekh...they don'T mention Azal yet AZAL was the most dangerous enemy ever for the Doctor, NOT Sutekh... pfff Pertwee would tell ya! Even the spider queen wasn't as scary as Azal
@@througtonsheirs_doctorwhol5914
Just because the sentiment is nice doesn’t mean the execution or story was in any way well written.
I think we have been spoiled and are expecting too much from the writers these days. It was a good episode, but it dragged immensely, then it was very anti-climatic. I think after the Doctor/Donna "your unique" and Tennants constant return, they decided to go with a flat ending instead. I get it, but oh well. I like David Tennant, but again they dragged his return and exit out and by the end, I was happy he got a sort of "happy ending".
I liked Jodi Whittaker, but I feel like the lady has already been forgotten, the writing was so bad though, I actually liked her rendition of the doctor, just not all her fault.
I'd like to point out that the 'youngster' prop makers don't know what an old CRT tube actually looks like. It came out of an old 80s style portable TV, but ended up looking like a tablet? Please note - a CRT tube has a huge length of glass out of the back that contain the field coils that focus the electrons onto the inside of the front of the tube.
i heard Bad Wolf are looking for a factchecker. Nah... not really. Someone said they calculated Ruby Sunday would have been born on Friday.
The doctor's last cry of the episode is the 73rd cry of the season, because it's the distance of the perception filter 😂
God this episode was bad.
A lot was very bad, I can list at least 10 things between Ruby’s snow power and her mother reveal and the Susan Foreman bait and switch, the way Sutekh is defeated. But the worst bit is the way everyone got brought back. Death to death? Huh? No. That’s not how that should work. Towing a god of death through the time vortex shouldn’t do anything. Sutekh should just be able not to unkill everything. End of. No excuse. Just the worst writing.
So where was Sukth when 15 hammered 14's Tardis and created his own Tardis? Did Sukth leave one Tardis for the other or is there a version of Sukth on 14's Tardis?
S15's villain - Twotekh.
@Jamie_Pritchard If you think too hard... you'll realize there's actually several Sutekhs now. :p not just two. :D
@Jamie_Pritchard WORSE! any time Doctors meet with Tardii.... Sutekhs meet!
@Jamie_Pritchard Yeah... the logical paradox RTD created just gets worse the more you think about it.
This was a typical Russel Davies series finale: build up the tension, ratchet up the suspense, put the main characters in an impossible-to-get-out-of situation in the first half, then come up with some totally off-the-wall conclusion that fails on almost every level. I must admit, I did like the way they dealt with Ruby’s mum, but how they wrapped up the Sutekh arc was about as non-sensical as they could get. Oh well.
i wanted to like it. I just kept on thinking how much more I enjoyed Pyramids of Mars in terms of the story line. I wanted the story to dive more into the Osirans and how maybe Ruby was somehow created as a fail safe against Sutekh possible return where the mysterious snow could have been a counter the dust.
That's unpossible. How could the Osirans point to a road sign?
Is there a copy of Sutekh on the 14th Doctors TARDIS?
... that's Sutekh's non-evil twin ;)
@@ftumschk imagine if Mrs flood is the other Sutekh
imagine if Mrs flood is the other Sutekh
@@robpasmeno1647 Double trouble!
He’s known as Two-tekh
So Millie Gibson got booted from the show because she read the scripts and probably said this was utter bollocks.
Pyramids of Mars is really good. If you haven’t seen it: give it a go. It’s worth your time.
except she's in the next season so no.
Yes somehow the being who can STOP EXPLOSIONS WITH HIS MIND 5600km away, can animate and channel his power through a corpse to destroy an object made to resist his power 265,107,781km away, but can't undo a knot either 5 cm or 10 meters ahead of him. Not to mention this brings up a BIG problem, this is a COPY of the Tardis, the way it was made that means the other Tardis has Sutekh woven into its being as well. There were so many interesting concepts they skated around instead of using that I'm just disappointed. And that Death to death thing was just stupid, the death clouds are Sutekh's power made manifest, its like saying if he punched himself he would die.
I got that vibe honestly. He killed Sutekh and basically went "stop hitting yourself".
yeah why was sutekh unable to just... not use his power in the time vortex?
@@0ikess RTD rather obviously wrote himself into a corner and when he couldn't think of a way out relied on the special effects budget. And got some of the worst ratings in Who history. Story will always triumph over spectacle. A great spectacular image is nice but it still has to make sense in the story otherwise it just makes it silly.
Many wont agree. But my take on this RTD did the most subtle reset ever and decided take the flack for a terrible finale. Now going forward all the things Chibnall destroyed "Oh look its back thanks to taking the Dog for a walk through the vortex". You know 100% that's how the Master is coming back. Something massive has happened months ago the tabloids were full of stories Millie had been axed last night RTD put out one of those messages saying actually the Story of Ruby isn't over so did a test audience pick up on the fact the endless snow? the mother dressed like she was dropping off the baby to attend a Black Mass!!!!. It was 19 years ago FFS they had her dressed like she was going to Salem Witch Trials as the main event. It reeks of RTD overfocused on Ruby and totally lost focus on the supposedly most powerful enemy the Doctor can encounter, When they put a lead on him and took him for a walk.
Dobson Gave a Radio times Interview saying her role is revealed in Series 2 and the way she worded it series 3 looks likely, Did we get the 1st nod he's a 3 series Doctor? her creepy warning at the end was very Ood. A foreboding of how the Doctor is going to die.
Even the most moderate creators all said the same thing this finale left them feeling flat
totally underwhelmed. Mel I think Nailed the part and it was good seeing Langford being able to actually do something other than a screaming Bimbo 80's style.
The massive Question RTD has to ask himself why did he return? was it because he really wanted to come back or because the damage Chibnall did was going to get the show axed.
Space Babies was a terrible episode in general let alone the new start. 2 Episodes clashed with sex ed so the Doctor was a Cameo in a series with just 8 episodes.
Again Rose being there felt like a cynical "Oh DT/CT" might turn up now. Total waste of time. Losing Millie is another huge mistake she's one of the best companions going
he's confirmed her time will be limited so that would suggest what ever the rest of her story is will mean Bye Bye Ruby. He let himself down but he let the fans down we were so hopeful he would fix the total Poop fest Chibnall created.
Wonder if this is an effect of there being fewer writers in modern writers' rooms. I know that's one of the things that writers in the US were fighting for during the strike right? If there are fewer people in the room to poke holes in a showrunner's ideas, maybe those stories go to print without proper vetting. This episode definitely feels like something that is a first draft that didn't go through much needed revisions to answer all the questions the audience will definitely have after watching it.
This whole run has been fully fucked with by a corporation. it just feels weak. like unsweetened oatmeal, or luke warm coffee. just had the soul of the show ripped out and shat on. This is what DEI gets you. trash. Has anyone seen the videos of a Disney vice president being secretly recorded while on a date? Some wild stuff. watch it and then come tell me im wrong.
You can still surround yourself with a bunch of yes people, like Davies has
Rewrite. Its a mysterious concept at Bad Wolf.
Something that really bothers me is that in dot and bubble the Susan in that one was on a completely different planet? I don’t understand how that can work
Oh yh true so the rule just breaks as the tardis landed on racist planet number 2. But someone will say excuse me but that Susan would of been created when landed on racist planet number 1 (the main home planet)
She might have been there at first and then went to a different one, the doctor could have easily landed there years before and then time traveled forward before deciding to help the society
What I don't get is why have susan there if most episodes she appears in already features death?
This episode was absolute garbage!
the ironic thing about how awful the resolution of Rubys mystery mom is.... and how shes so ordinary but all this extra ordinary stuff was happening... RTD could have just lazily thrown in a line where "well your strong desire to find out about your mom bonded you with the memory tardis which was manifesting snow where ever we went" so could have said it was some psychic nonsense related to the tardis to explain away all the bullshit hype he was building around the blah mystery of ruby....
and the stupid spoon scene just had me thinking of the matrix "there is no spoon" lol
HAHAHA and when the Tardis split during the 60th Anniversary specials...everything doubled, so there's another Sutehk on the 14th Doctor's Tardis. HAHAHA SOOO many plot holes and plot chasms, and just this show is meaningless and has no substance; nothing is earned. The writers set-up rules and then immediately toss them out or outright just break them for no reason. The continuity this season alone sets up is trashed by the very ones establishing it, not to mention canon and continuity from previous decades.
And Sutehk can rip open the time vortex, yet doesn't do that to escape?!???! HAHAHA Then, traveling in the Time Vortex all that time didn't harm him, but powered him up, and suddenly NOW the vortex is harmful to him!?!?!????! HAHAHAHAHA
Shite. It's just RTD living out some kind of fantasy. Maybe he's going through a mid-life crisis or something. I dunno what happened to the bloke.
Arguably Sutekh survived ON the Tardis in that bubble they keep sitting in but then destroyed outside the bubble. But yeah its pants.
Why would 15 making a duplicate TARDIS make a duplicate Sutekh? THINK.
@@MichaelO2000 Twasn't intentional. He wasn't aware of sutehk's presence until this bit in the finale. "THINK"? I do think, unlike RTD: Ruined The Doctor Davies. That's the problem. I think I need a lobotomy before I'd be able to come close to not thinking and possibly liking this meaningless non-sense.
And also THINK that you can have your opinion and I can have mine without either having to change the other? I THINK that's possible whether you might or not. Pointing out plot holes doesn't have to be an attack. It can simply be THINKING and noticing, then discussing it. HAHAHA ;) :P
@@altSHIFTNerd Crass as you are, you have a strong point. The reason for the TARDIS duplicating is that the 'state of play' is still active. The rules of this state of play as established by the episode is as follows:
*It allows weird shit to happen
*The Doctor can claim a prize
*...
*That's it
So while there isn't anything to prove that Sutekh was duplicated, there's also nothing to suggest that he can't. Which, considering this episode was written in the same season, seems like really bad internal consistency.
@@boogiebot2279 😉😁
Just so awful and sad. RT D has no respect for the fans. This was drivel. The only one who can act is Mel. It should be cancelled but I hope they just change showrunner. Don't care who Mrs Flood is now speaking to us like an episode of Jackanory. Showing the original Pyramid although butchered just emphasised how the show has deteriorated. Special effects can only do so much. So many loose ends. No Ncuti not feeling the love! Shall I touch grass now?
The kind women scene is as totally pointless
I'm absolutely ill laughing at "even JJ Abrams would be like f*cking hell, come on mate. "
He'd be like More lens flares and shots of women looking dramatically through windows.
#15: '
'I'm just taking the dog out for a spin...'
Doctor who defeated the god of death by being taken for time vortex walkies…..I repeat death by WALKIES……I’m done 😢
Are you new to Doctor Who?
Many fans (including me) enjoyed part one of the finale. Nearly all seem deflated by part two. So congrats on RTD on uniting the fan base I suppose.
Part one was actually ok bar the "THATS ME!!!!" moment and weird disabled child working in government alien lair. Those parts were just pure cringe.
I loved Part Two so not really.
One spoon to rule the world. 😂
My main issue throughout this whole episode/storyline with Ruby… what bloody 15 year old in 2004 England, owns a huge hooded cape and walks around in it?
Maybe if she was wearing a jucy couture tracksuit hoodie or something I could understand - but a medieval-looking cape? Hahaha 😂
The whole finale was a joke really - so painful that it’s laughable!
I think you're both missing the point. Russell T Davies isn't interested in logic or scriptwriting. For him, everything is subservient to the political messaging he wants to insert into every episode. He's not a scriptwriter, he's an activist.
He's a fanatic priest of a non-theistic religion.
"everything is subservient to the political messaging he wants to insert into every episode." What was the political message in this episode? Go on, tell me. What was it?
@@friendlyotaku9525 That abusing dogs ain't ok. Dogs Lives Matter.
Once Kate died all my investment died with her because I knew she would be brought back. All takes stakes were gone.
Ruby being a nobody could work, but they specifically showed how she has magic powers with the snow and her song in the devils cord.
3:15 the doctor had plot armour, suteck didn’t want him to die.
Katie I could believe may have died in a shocking twist but once I saw the kid and rose die it became obvious nothing would stick. Plus I'm sorry none of this made any sense stuff just happened because the plot said so. Example Sutekh killed everyone else but couldn't kill the doctor and Ruby because he couldn't see her mum, makes no sense why would that stop him and why could he not see her no reason given.
@@dmaxwell9827 I actually think sutekh keeping the doctor and Ruby alive is the only thing in the episode that makes sense
Any show or movie that kills off all of the characters (or most) in some way, will always just ruin it for me, since it is clear everyone will just come back.
There are obviously a few exceptions, but it takes away all of the stakes, especially in this episode. (this is just my opinion)
I thought I fell asleep watching this episode because it made very little sense but listening to this it really did just make very little sense
Doesn't this episode also throw out the premise of the toymaker/maestro coming because of the void fuckery in Wild Blue Yonder? I'm so upset with this episode and how it was fumbled. Toss out 73 yards, make this a three part episode where the world ends in the first. In the second episode they are struggling in the dying universe and trying to find a way to defeat sutekh, and in the third they find a way to defeat him with proper stakes. hey, fuck it, destroy the tardis that he's been a parasite on for thousands of years. episode three they take the memory tardis inside the tardis and it's a heist to get it's heart and then self destruct it, and then the next season's arc is to restore it without having access to unlimited space and time travel.
So in one of the BTS Russell does say that Sutekh wasn't always an actual God he was just an Osiran but because of Toymaker and the rest of the Pantheon he becomes one. He doesn't explain how or why since he was on the TARDIS the whole time but yeah. Seems he also has no reason
Utterly pitiful
One more thing: what about the snow? It was mentioned repeatedly throughout the series, happened repeatedly throughout the series as if it was a vital clue to something, but was it ever explained how Ruby, daughter of an unremarkable human mother and father, could create snow? If it were explained, I missed it.
it was NOT explained
The directors and producers would have to call Russell T Davies and bring him on set because they needed him to explain the convoluted plot. This only confused them further and clearly.
This whole season was utterly awful, it's a fitting finale because it made absolutely no sense, had so many potholes and the answers to the big mysteries went over like a fart in an elevator.
I refuse to not believe Russell had a stupid mystery story he wanted to make into a show, and coming back to Doctor Who was is opportunity
It's been 3 episodes, what is the point of bringing Mel back? What does she do in The Giggle, Legend of Ruby Sunday, or Empire of Death that has any impact?
Love the hint that Miss Flodd might be Missy. Flood, Sea...
Miss Sea,
Missy !!
I was kinda enjoying the episode up until the ending with the reveal of the mom. I thought it was goofy and nonsensical how they defeated Sutek, but that's just Doctor Who. Then the reveal came and the entire episode (and season with it) was destroyed. This one episode managed to make the previous episodes worse, with just 15 minutes. It was the biggest disappointment I've ever had the displeasure of seeing on TV.
5/10. (Start of episode 8,5/10, ending 1/10)
The Power Of Normal. it was a tribute to Clara's Leaf.
Suetekh being defeated so easily was embarrassing to watch, the mystery boxes were empty and meaningless, oh but we should care about mrs flood right and the future threats? Hell No!!! The so called "god of all gods" is defeated with a whistle and a dog lead diminishing ALL future enemies and the mystery of ruby's mother was empty and misleading
How did the God of Gods not know Ruby & The Drs plan?
Why does nobody on Earth not remember the weekly apocalypse?
"The worst finale ever" no, not even close.
Thank you for ripping this episode a new one. It was a mess from start to finish.
this was hot garbage. RIP Doctor Who. it was a good run.
Empire of Death was trash. RTD never should have come back.
It just. needs. a fresh writing team, and a fresh showrunner. They want it to be Disney/Marvel Doctor Who, hire those writers and directors. This was definitely not the original ending surely, the pointing thing?
The pointing thing was f*cking creepy. I dont think Ruby is safe around her 😅
Another glitch because Ruby is going "Why can't i see her face?" as though some mysterious force is stopping her. But then there is no explanation for that and it turns out to be just her normal Mum.
@@joso7228 I think the insinuation was Ruby can't see the face because Ruby's memory of her is in the way. But that's jsut DUMb. It only works i Ruby has minor reality altering powers.
Not even close to the worst finale ever the timeless child says hello
Second worst.
@@HiDesert004 the other chin balls era finales were no treat either the only decent episode under his show running was power of the doctor
Anything is better than The Wedding Of River Song, let’s be honest here. At least this episode was enjoyable and didn’t make me want to gouge my eyes out with a rusty spork
@@operationorigins4714 now that got me laughing which is hard to do these days. Forgive me if I read this in reece Shearmith's voice a la one of his inside number 9 rants. You should check that show out if you haven't seen it before
Ranskoor av Kolos was an even weaker finale.
I’m glad I don’t watch it anymore. It sounds so convoluted and just downright bad.
no its worse than that
Knock Knock
Who's there?
You'll never know, for I am the Master Of Mystery!!!!!
That's how crap Dr Who has become.
On stakes, the original Pyramid of Mars did it far better and taught a lesson of the rules of time travel that Doctors 1-3 mentioned. Doctor 4, takes Sarah to the same place in 1980 that they were in 1911 and everything is destroyed. Showing the result but not having the apocalypse happen past tense. And illustrated the rule that once a Time Traveler inserts themselves into an event they are part of that point in time from then on and can shape what comes.
The two things that annoy me the most about the Ruby reveal, is first of all, why was it snowing in certain cases along with the music? And things like Maestro derogatively referred to Ruby as being a creature, and since Maestro is a god you'd think a god calling someone a creature like that might be a clue that Ruby isn't human or not fully human.
We had plenty of clues scattered throughout the show to suggest who/what Ruby might be, and each of them turned out to be a red herring. I'm okay with red herrings being there, but we needed some hints about her real origin and some suggestions about where the snow and music were really coming from. RTD did a good enough job playing his cards with the S Triad/Tardis/Susan as a smokescreen that everyone jumped at just as he clearly knew they would, but the more I think about it, the more it looks like he forgot to go back and write in some real clues about Ruby so we could actually figure out her whole deal.
At this point the only thing that makes me think the snow had any explanation is Mrs Flood's final fourth wall break, right at the end of the episode. She on the rooftop, dressed in an all white outfit (some think it looks like the first Romana's outfit) complete with her bag and brolly. And snow... If she's anything to do with the snow that popped up around Ruby, and she's clearly a mystery for next season, it might have been an idea to have had her hum that music on occasion or mention that it's too warm or point out that it looks like snow. Anything to give a little hint she had something to do with things.
I also think if you want to have high stakes with apocalyptic outcomes, don't set it on Earth. At least not present day or sometime in the past Earth. Future Earth is fair game, we've no idea what might happen in say, 3467. We've got a very good idea of what's going to happen tomorrow. The other best option would be to set it on a different planet. Logopolis felt like it had a 50/50 chance of surviving because we had no personal connection to it, but we could see it was full of living people, and what did the Master end up doing to all of them?
Worst episode of this awful season. "Empire of plot holes" shows RTD needs to go. We need a new writer and a new Doctor.
"RTD needs to go" "Chibnall needs to go" "Moffat needs to go" lol it's funny because it's always the same thing, a neverending cycle.
A lesson for RTD. The stark difference between a great success and a huge letdown in one following sentence.
Most reviewers agreed Back to the Future was among the year's most entertaining films, partly because of its focus on storytelling instead of pure spectacle.
Give up the spectacle RTD and hyperbole and write a good narrative focusing on storytelling.
Suketah was defeated in such a lame way.
So much was wrong with this season, first when the doctor duplicated the Tardis did it duplicate sutek? when the Tardis exploded in matt smiths era did sutek get blown up as well? since when did the timeless child BS get unwritten because if its not been unwritten hes not even a timelord to begin with, not being funny but why go back to Unit in the first place when there is a perfectly good Tardis round the corner with David at donnas house so a BS memory Tardis wasn't needed. speaking of the memory Tardis why was it made up of all the previous Tardis's when ruby whos memory was being used for it has only even been in one Tardis.
The episode has was a mess, who am i kidding the whole season has felt like a mess
"since when did the timeless child BS get unwritten because if its not been unwritten hes not even a timelord to begin with" did you just not pay attention to that story? The Doctor is still a Time Lord, that hasn't changed, they just didn't originate from Gallifrey.
Sutekh's infinite confusion was a 15 year old nurse from Birmingham, who funnily enough at 15 was 6 foot and the DNA thing makes no sense at all because what if she was dead before 2046.
I was basically on the same page as you both. Muttering "this is so, so bad" every time something stupid happened. So, fairly often.
I was never a huge fan of RTD's finales (Doomsday probably being the most competently written, least deus ex machina one, imo) but even measured against those, this one was dire.
There were some solid core ideas in the episodes this season (bar Space Babies) but the execution often dragged them down a fair bit. Boom being the exception, as I thought that was great.
I'm just sad 😢
I wish Sutekh's servants where the reapers from S1
I picked that she would be no one because i knew RTD wojld disappoint me
9:09 that spoon woman is the doctors mother and the scene is the timeless child but no one noticed not even the doctor, it’s genuinely because the script was that bad
Why do you say that 'scene is the timeless child'? Plz enlighten us!!!
Honestly really happy I found this channel
I also thought about the Davina McCall scene and how it wouldn’t entirely make sense for Ruby’s mum to not have any sort of footprint BUT I think the implication is supposed to be that the Goblins messed with the test as another instance of bad luck for Ruby. The episode even shows that they were messing with Davina McCall too. Perhaps if the goblins hadn’t been targeting Ruby, then she hypothetically would have found her mother through the test.
The evil PM from 73 yards is called something Ap Gwillam which means son of William. Ruby's dad is called William. The PM was referenced in the finale as was her knowledge of 73 yards being 66m which is the TARDIS perception filter radius. This is going to be revisited in S2 for sure...
it'll probably get retconned to be even dumber.
The Biggest Hang up to this whole story concept in relation to the way this Doctor came to be is why did Sutekh attach himself to this version of the Tardis when he could have used the Fourteenth Doctor's Tardis in the same way he took control of the Tardis of the 15th Doctor.
This episode and the entire series just proved to be a pathetic mind numbing waste of time (and oxygen)
It's mentioned in the previous episode that it snows because it's an open wound in time and is centred around Ruby.
The Doctor has the power to just call himself the embodiment of life and have it come true metaphysically. He has to be a god himself, right?
If that's the case, he also had the power to cause the Dots to hate people and try to kill them, because they weren't doing that until he suggested it. Lindey was right not to trust him.
it's probably just rtd leaning into that "lonely god" archetype which he loved in RTD1
@@badwolf69420 the idea that the dot just heard the doctor and was like: "wait... i can do that!?" before proceeding to attack is hilarious
Great review guys. I gave up on Dr Who having been watching it for 50 years after the singing elves episode. Im done.
Guys, I stumbled across your channel, I am so pleased I did (a+ review).
You guys are really funny and I love the way you dont go manosphere at all.
To me, its patently obvious RTD is using this show for his own political agenda, and the isresult the writing has really suffered, as he seems to have sacrificed storytelling for not stepping on eggshells. That's the elephant in the room,and you didn't mention it, but to be honest you don't have to.
Youve got another subscriber. I literally belly laughed at the pupper referneces.
"To me, its patently obvious RTD is using this show for his own political agenda" such as?
@@friendlyotaku9525 I mean, he's an activist, and if you've been paying any attention you can refer to all his interviews, he's not hiding anything and saying it overtly.
It's fine to take a political interest, and have opinions dressed up ambiguously (The Orville does it well), it's another to let it take front and centre of your job as a writer at the detriment of the story and plot.
@PeevedUK where's the political agenda in this episode exactly?
Also all writers have agendas, that's part of the creative process.
@@friendlyotaku9525 well, if you want to get specific the line about "cultural appropriation" alludes to it. Sutek, was also set, an Egyptian god, but patently RTD couldn't follow through with the mask/ humanoid form of the ancient Egyptian deity, for reasons of cultural appropriation, so instead we got a leashed dog.
It's a shame because Egyptian mythology is a really interesting, educational topic that was just glossed over, maybe because RTD isn't smart enough to do the research and wind it into a comprehensive story arc, or maybe because he's afraid of being accused of cultural appropriation himself.
So that's one example, but the others are stark throughout the whole series... My favourite episode, Dot and Bubble, did it really well but at other times (the romance of Rouge for example) it seemed very shoehorned and heavy handed with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer to the face.
It could have been good, I'd argue that a romance needs to be drawn out for us to be actually invested, and instead just came across as RTD just going "I wanna do a gay kiss", with no depth at all.
So yeah, good writing can encompass all those things, but RTD did it bitty and badly.
Of course, I'm no bigot, so other opinions are allowed. But that's my 2p.
@PeevedUK The Doctor is just being cheeky in that moment, it's nothing serious. That's just in character.
Also the stuff with Rogue was beautiful and important. RTD didn't write that episode though.
The Memory TARDIS first appears in Tales of the TARDIS as a way for old companions and Doctors to reunite across time and space. The explanation for it was kinda bullshit, but I figured it was fine since it was basically just a framing device to present abridged Classic Who stories. I never thought RTD would actually use the damn thing in the actual show!
So why does Ruby make it Snow? Also Sutekh must have Lover being on the TARDIS during the Time War?? RTD can't spend months telling the audience Ruby is important than blame the audience for thinking she's important!
Why can't she see her Mum's face?
No reason.
Basically the Doctor just did exactly what he did before to get rid of Sutekh, more or less. Only with the TARDIS and a tow rope!
Except then, the Doctor trapped Sutekh in a very limited time corridor, which RTD seems to have misinterpreted as being the Time Vortex. This time, the Doctor pulled Sutekh into the actual time vortex, which he had been traveling through since 1981, but this time, the time vortex kills Sutekh because why not? Maybe, with all those strange eons, even death may die.
@@SimonMoon5 it's all those colors in the new vortex everyone knows sutekh has a deathly allergy to colors
It was a bad episode but the Sutekh model was awesome. I just loved the way he was toying and moving the TARDIS around
Suthek was never in control of the tardis untill recently he just hitchhiked
My issue is that God's came into the universe from The Doctors actions in the 60th, but Sutehk has been inside the universe on a Tardis the entire time
Yeah and according to an RTD interview became a God after the toymaker thing so before that was just chillen
Never watched you guys before but I so agree with what you're both saying. I have struggled with Davis since the bigeneration as I felt this only left a bad taste in my mouth. But I persevered through this season and for the most part I quite liked it. But this finale sadly sucks. Davis copped out in bringing substance and meaning to it. It is severely lacking and I do think it's the guy's worse finale as showrunner.
I Liked it because it was Unintentionally Comedic Gold. I Stopped Caring about anything New Doctor Who along with Disney Star Wars and New Discovery Era Star Trek.
It was shockingly bad
Sutekh should have 'entered' when the TARDIS was duplicated, given that it was a god's 'state of play' that allowed it to happen, that would be the price for the doctor's prize. The cost of life is death.
The only affect on the story would be Sutekh only being able to start destroying all life in the universe from locations visited within this season, not everywhere the doctor has been since OG season 4. Less impactful? Slightly, but also avoiding a hundred plot holes. This would give the doctor more time (pun intended) to try and fix it - allowing this to be a three parter so it wouldn't be as rushed.
This would also explain why Sutekh cares so much about Ruby, if the first thing he sees on his return is this mystery child, his villainous 'first face this face saw' if you will, you could have one or two lines of dialogue about 'the first you saved doctor would be my last' to justify his sparing of Ruby, and also why he waited for the time window incident to properly re-enter.
There. Fixed it.
ohhh I like this! very good.
You were doing so well until you suggested coughlan play a full companion or that Moffat is necessarily better than RTD 😅