How ‘Empire of Death’ Retcons Most of Doctor Who
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
- The Dying Game (HOT TAKE: Doctor Who's "Empire of Death"): Is it getting dusty in here? “Empire of Death” delivers a canon bomb that changes 49 years of Doctor Who history, alongside an emotional twist at the end. If you’re not crying Ncuti Gatwa-style at Ruby and her mum, check to see if you just crumbled into dust. But does the rest of the finale work? And is the Doctor a bad dog owner now? Join us as we bring our headcanon into the time vortex, and clean it all up with the Sutekh Swiffer!
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Pull To Open: Empire of Death HOT TAKE
Season 5
Episode 26
Hosts: Pete Pachal and Chris Taylor
Music: Martin West/Thinking Fish bit.ly/3WagZRq
© AnyWho Media 2024
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theres another sutekh out there, because they duplicated the tardis in the giggle
The TARDIS was destroyed in Frontios! Did Sutekh hold on to the biggest chunk? Was he inside the Master’s TARDIS inside the Doctor’s etc etc), the TimeLords never detected him on all those visits to Gallifrey? The White or Black Guardians, gods in their own right, didn’t notice or think to tell the Doctor? The TARDIS herself didn’t know or tell in The Doctor’s Wife? I could go on, but instead, I’ll just state the obvious: this episode like the entire season was dire, poorly written, not at all thought out or revised after asking oneself the questions writers always should. And I’m not a hater, not a homophobe, am instead a lifelong Doctor Who fan who was absolutely overjoyed when RTD was announced as coming back, as I just knew he’d make all the course corrections that had gone horribly wrong during Chibnail’s era and even the last few years of Moffat’s time (far less excruciating instances). I was so, so wrong and it’s terrible. I can only think RTd was distracted, on medications or something that utterly sapped his usual brilliance and creativity as this entire season Was just an embarrassing mishmash of past RTD tropes as well as other seasons (dusting the universe after it just got dusted in The Flux? A mystery woman appearing the same everywhere the Doctor goes (Clara anyone?) and in fact has been happening since the fourth doctor’s first series but the Doctor only just now noticed (but noticed off screen since they show up to UNIT already wondering who she is). Like they developed their Sutekh plan off screen or did I miss the whistle and leash plan? Like the importance of needing metal in the TARDIS and thus the spoon scene but it was pointless and came out of nowhere serving no purpose. NCuti and Millie deserve better,we fans certainly, absolutely deserve better. Unless S2 is a massive improvement, there is zero chance this will continue on Disney and I doubt even the BBC will continue it will the 2million viewers. Please RTD fix Who, especially the damage you’ve done this series!
RTD has no interest in making Doctor Who good again, just wants to do what he is doing. Make another queer as folk but with the doctor. It’s not homophobic to not want a gay Nigerian actor who can only play a gay Nigerian actor. We hear these same people say they don’t want str8 people in anything so why is it ok for them but hateful or homophobic or racist when we say it. We need to stop falling for that. They have basically unleashed a whole bunch of crazies into the writers room with no talent and a mind full of ideology. They need to actually listen to the fans, you would think losing millions of viewers might make them think twice but it does not because they don’t care if they kill the show as long as they get their ideology in.
Mel has been one of the best parts of the season! I love how there’s still the core of their old relationship but updated and matured for where they are in their lives!
Totally agree that Mel finally gets her time to shine ✨
“This is so Bridgerton.”
“This is so Avengers Infinity War” lol 😂😂
Don’t forget - “This is so Black Mirror”
Series 4 finale did that first.
Between Big Bang II, Flux, Toymaker's Jigsaw Puzzle, and the Sutekh reset, the answer to "What is canon in Doctor Who?" really is "Your guess is as good as ours."
So is Sutekh still on 14's cloned Tardis?
THAT'S how he comes back for the 100th. Nailed it.
Isn’t 15th the clone one as tennant went back to the og tardis as the one with the juke book came
Out of the og one and 15th has the cloned one
I never realized how important spoons are to the DW mythology until now.
McCoy played with them.
Capaldi fought with them.
And now Gatwa saved the world with them.
There is no spoon.
also Whitaker made her sonic screwdriver with spoons.
@8:25 That's exactly how one should do a Sutekh story, in my opinion. Don't blow up the entire universe so that you have to hit the reset button. Sacrifice a few galaxies or galactic super clusters where there are people in places we know about. It surprises me that more writers of this kind of thing don't seem to want to utilize that.
Never has Deus Ex Machina been so literal. They got a god and chucked him out of a machine.
I agree wholeheartedly with the need for some intermediate thing between "dragging Scrappy Doo through the time vortex" and "Everybody lives!" - I was expecting salt to make an appearance, actually.
Edited: y'know, if the Doctor had gone to the Spoon Woman to ask for _salt_ ...
Why was a 15 year old dressed as a monk to drop off her baby???
Cloaks were HUGE in 2004.
The most I can think of is she didn't want it somehow getting back to her abusive father that she dropped off a baby, so she hid her face from people and cameras, while still being able to give the name.
@@Jansenbaker Yeah most people would be wearing a hoody to achieve that, where would you even get a robe from lol
Given the popularity of LOTR, Star Wars, and Harry Potter in the early 2000's I think a cloak would be fairly easy to get at a costume shop or something in '04.
Clara rode the outside of the Tardis too. Geez.
Love the hint that Miss Flodd might be Missy Flood, Sea... Miss Sea, Missy !!
Yeah, but the Doctor didn't intentionally drag her to the end of the universe and time
Yeh I totally agree about the ‘Death + Death = Life”, line, I too was like, errr, does it? Like Wet + Wet = Dry? Does Life + Life = Death? Yeh sorry, bit of a hard reach, for me.
Feels more like a religious sort of symbolism thing? Than a logical sci-fi sort of thing.
I’m not totally sure, but I think it might have meant bringing death to death, as to killing the death. Idk tho
What if u take death to be -1 and use multiplication instead -1 x -1= 1. Could justify multiplication being across all of time, coz they were in the vortex 🤷🏾♂️
@@TheConnorBaird it was not clear, was it… eh, I’m sure the fans are headcanoning it for us as we speak. Erm… type.
@@Vixis6 that’s not a bad solution to the math! Still…
When you take Sutekh for a walk and have to clean up after him, all I can say is...we're gonna need a bigger bag!
😂🐕🦺💩
Thinking about the start of "Listen" and adding Sutekh to the mix. Perfect hiding etc..how would you know you're alone? And I still think that jukebox is a Tardis.
Nice connection. Definitely hits different
What I like about your dynamic is that you're two sides to the same coin: Chris is happy-go-lucky and Pete is a bit more judgmental. But you make it clear that both can co-exist and get along! :D
Wouldn't have it any other way 🥰
So there was that one time when a dinosaur ate the Tardis.
A dinosaur almost ate Sutekh.
Haha forgot about that one! Yep, sounds plausible 😆
Plot twist Martha Jones died off screen and stayed dead, Russell ignored Martha again 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I'm kidding of course Martha's one of my favourite characters she needs to come back and have a redeeming storyline as opposed to being a rebound from Rose Tyler
Absolutely, once everyone important has died like Pete says, you know there's going to be a reset. I will say, however, that I gave an out loud cheer when they first guy who died in the time window last week was shown waking up along with everyone else and said "hurray, Manchester man is back!" Also, it was a nice scene, but really *why* did the Doctor need to visit a woman on a planet to fetch a spoon so that he could stick part of it into the screen thing.
I know the actor of Manchester man and he is such a lovely bloke! Hope he gets more to do :)
@@robinlyons6916let him know we’re glad he’s back!
It might just be a red herring but Mrs Flood yelled out, "Clever boy".
Love the hint that Miss Flodd might be Missy Flood, Sea... Miss Sea, Missy !!
@@througtonsheirs_doctorwhol5914 pretty weak clue. That's something Moffat would do, not Davies
@@througtonsheirs_doctorwhol5914 When I think if that line I tend to think of either Clara or River Song. But it will probably just turn out to be RTD trolling us. lol
@@RemyBent it could be, but remember Missy became good so she could be ... or the Rani, or the tooth of the master possessing Miss Flood, thinking she is missy... Cuz overall i still think Isaac Newton is the master in hiding for a while. MAVITY of the situation is still not explained after season1, like Miss Flood... Miss Sea , i sign and persist XD
@@RemyBent the other point i had correct was that it was Hariet Harbinger seen from the back in the TARDIS in that preview of the finale. NOT tennant!
Sutekh is in Scream of the Shalka. Sutekh is on the outside when House is on the inside.
Could have simply have Sutekh slowly disintegrating and his dust causing the flashes of life.
My prediction is that Mrs. Flood is Romana. At the end she’s wearing a similar outfit to the one Mary Tamm wore in the Ribos Operation.
A retcon? On Doctor Who? Never!
🤣
I consider this episode a Sutekh splinter. I think he's still out there where spin-off media left him tho I know what Russell said.
This definitely wasnt worth getting stranded over night in London and staying awake for 24+ hours for
When the TARDIS was duplicated in the 60th special, does that means Sutekh was also duplicated?
Maybe. Let's not find out for a few years.
I thought sutehk said he's the one that duplicated the tardis?
Dust of Death just reminded me of the Red Skull’s signature weapon.
15 is too weepy for my liking
Glad I saw this video, cause yeh it seems like the flux has been reverted and Davies did retcon on the series by having sutekh strung out in the time vortex itself.
Don’t forget Karn.
There are so many New Who episodes that make no sense if Sutekh was riding the TARDIS, most notably when the TARDIS exploded and The Doctor reset the universe. Did Amy also remember Sutekh and bring him back? Nonsense. Or in The Doctor's Wife, wouldn't the TARDIS have mentioned Sutekh? There's no way she didn't know about his presence; he has mass, clearly. So frustratingly stupid.
Not to mention the TARDIS getting blown apart in Frontios, taking a bath in Z-neutrino energy in Journey's End, etc. Maybe he takes breaks...?
My train of thought is that due to the Toymaker making a jigsaw out of the Doctor's history, plus time and space being in flux starting from the 14th Doctor or even earlier during the events of the Flux in 13's era, I think that Sutekh originally wasn't riding the TARDIS but with those factors in play, maybe time has changed and the Doctor and the TARDIS' timelines has been warped enough that Sutekh was able to latch on to the TARDIS as a consequence. It's also why I don't think Sutekh died at the end, and he might return at some point in the Doctor's future.
@@PullToOpenI like to picture Sutekh perched on top of the TARDIS trying to avoid the Z-Neutrino like a cat dodging a bath
It's almost like it was written and directed by hack frauds.
Love the hint that Miss Flodd might be Missy Flood, Sea... Miss Sea, Missy !!
Obviously she's the husband of Mr Flood.
@@TheInedibleHulk Yes !! Got played on by a teacher in a new town, new school. Ha djust moved. I know people who share my family name in the region, and it's common as a name, so a teacher askls : "So you'Mr. X's son!" And replied : "Nah..." and then understood the joke XD
@@TheInedibleHulk amazing wordplay of a monicker... Master Kaio will admit you with us when you try and apply in the afterlife XD (i'm atheist but i believe in master kaio of DBZ for pranks)
While it's fine that Ruby's mum is normal etc I think it's a silly cop out for RTD to say the mystery around Ruby's placement is just hype.
Currently it's a damn baiting plothole.
The way I described it to one of my friends is that they "Rey skywalkered" her. Build up a big mystery about them just to turn round and say they were just normal
Edit: just got to that part of the video 😂
Fascinated that you called for Traken and Justice for Nyssa, and completely missed the fact that there is already a BBC book called Empire of Death, from 2004, a 5th Doctor / Nyssa story, which involves her talking about traveling to Traken before its destruction. AND it seems several ideas from that book have mysteriously appeared been stolen for this new who story.... no special thanks to the original author of that book. David Bishop.
Interesting! Did not know about that particular adventure. Thanks for this - we'll need to check it out
I have sent a message to David Bishop to see if he wants to give a response have not received any contact back yet.
Allow me to also add there is a MUCH BETTER Sutekh story done by Big Finish, in the New Adventures of Bernice Summerfield range, with Sylvester McCoy's 7th Doctor And Sophie's Ace - Volume 02: The Triumph of Sutekh also with Gabriel Woolf as the voice of Sutekh. A superb story and good listen
So, that was definitely one of the WORST episodes of Doctor Who I've ever seen (and I've seen all the episodes, going all the way through Classic Who as well), IMO.
What a sh!t show!
You again, troll. Get out.
Sutekh isn't a dog 😒
yeah it's a jackal, a chacal. Anubis/Set lore
It's not actually clear what Sutekh's, Set's, animal.
To me it looks like an Egyptian hunting dog which would fit with his counterpart Horus who has a falcon, a hunting bird.
@@nealjroberts4050 jackal... in egyptian anthropology it's clearly a jackal
@@througtonsheirs_doctorwhol5914
No, only Anubis has the Jackal. Sutekh aka Set has it's canine like animal. Look it up and see.
yeah that was stupid
Not your video, it was brilliant
Maybe I'm dumb, but like, what exactly did they retcon? I didn't catch any retcons anywhere, make sure you're using the right word please?
We're sure. They said Sutekh was basically a passenger on the TARDIS in every episode since Pyramids of Mars, seeding "Susan Triads" all over the universe. Clearly not something the original creators of Pyramids of Mars intended. That qualifies as a retcon.
@@PullToOpen No its just continuing on from an old story, the show has always done this.
@@doctorsnail2148 It's a retcon, RTD changed the established narrative.
@@doctorsnail2148 You clearly have totally misunderstood everything you have ever seen and (probably) read. This is NOT a continuation. The programme has NOT always done this. The fact that you think so is both funny and worrying.
@@julieanngoodwin30it's not a retcon at all. Everything still took place. Doctor who has always changed things later. Timelords and Gallifrey changed so many times over the first 30 years. Enemies that were dead came back time and time again, after being defeated. The Master, Daleks, Cybermen etc. Clearly Sutekh was weak and barely alive, took him a very long time to regain strength and evolve.
Last of the Time Lords was once the worst episode.
Do you mean among finales? Or do you really mean worse than Kill the Moon, Forest of the Night, Fear Her, Orphan 55?
Personally, I like this one better than Last of the Time Lords, though I guess there's more "in universe justification" with the Archangel network supposedly concentrating the power of human belief making the Doctor Space Jesus thing work.
R.I.P Doctor Who 1963 - 2017
I tuned out mid-Capaldi and just browsed most of Whittaker. As much of a hack as Chibnall is, Fugitive of the Judoon was the best Who in years and I only tonight finally saw The Power of the Doctor, and really liked it. His era had a handful of high points.
The show died for me when Tennant came back and destroyed the Donna Noble story, which used to be one of the most beautiful things in Who history. And the pronouns. And the incompetent horny Doctor waving his arms and stepping on things.... it is now truly dead. Doctor Who 1963-2023.
@@donatist59 Just come here from a love letter to the specials from a fan who watched everything David Tennant appeared in and put up a video that talked about how much she loves the 60th specials. Wild Blue Yonder was indeed something special imv. Apparently, the pronouns were fine when it was Jon Pertwee explaining that Alpha Centuri's are "it/its".
73 yards is a Doctor Who for the ages imv.