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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- Honda's 11th gen Civic Si is an amazing value for money, except for one glaring weakness - its 1.5L engine that's both underpowered and inflicted with a nasty case of rev hang. Let's find out if FBO (full bolt ons) and a tune can successfully address this shortcoming.
Mod List:
RV6 retrofit Type R clutch
KTuner
27WON downpipe/frontpipe
PRL intercooler
PRL high volume intake
PRL flex fuel kit (E30)
Hybrid Racing short shifter
Titan 7 T-S5 with Kumho V730 255/35/18
Swift springs
Brembo brakes
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Email me if you'd like me to review your car: zygrene@gmail.com - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
that rev hang is absolutely ridiculous. Can't understand how it left the factory like that
Blame EPA
Exactly, EPA. FA wrx suffered from rev hang, too.
@@captainmexicoXDbut the VB doesn’t. So I’m not sure it’s an EPA only problem. Unless Subaru figured out some kind of magic to eliminate rev hang while still meeting emissions targets. It’s certainly possible since the VB has an all new drivetrain. Maybe higher displacement with lower boost targets is the solution.
@@captainmexicoXDneat thing about the va wrx and most modern cars with rev hang, is they program the ecu to drop the rpm’s to exactly where it’s needed all you need to do is drop the clutch faster. Not a clutch kick but about twice as fast as you normally would in a car without rev hang. The car is waiting on you not the other way around.
Are all the bolt ons much less than simply getting a type r? Geez 🤦🏻♂️
The SI's biggest strength is the MPG's you get for the power. If you want big power out a 1.5 engine, you need to Build the engine.
FACTS. 40mpg hwy with still getting 200 hp and torque is nice.
My k20A3 couldnt do that. It was 160/132 and best it got was 33 mpg. Going 60!!! You go over that, and the 5 speed had you at 4.2k rpm at 75.
People complained about rev hang in the VA WRX and the GR86/BRZ, but this is a whole new world of rev hang. It's like a full second before it starts to dip, absolutely crazy.
It’s terrible but people are comparing BRZ to cars like the S2k which is a big difference between the two
I'm surprised they didn't remove the rev hang with the tune.
Its still fundamentally a physical issue. It needs a lighter flywheel.
@@macaron3141592653 not really. This guys tune is fucked; im on 18PSI ktuner and have nowhere close to this amount of rev hang, its practically gone. Rev match enabled also makes the hang worse, I keep it disabled since it messes with the tune, i should make a video of my car tbh. This one is atrocious
The rev-hang is a complete and total dealbreaker. The ENTIRE POINT of the continued existence of the manual transmission in the modern world is the engagement and Honda has a long history of having really engaging manual transmissions. Is there some rule that modern consumer goods MUST have some little irksome trait that will bug the hell out of you? If we have an ICE Civic with a manual transmission for the next generation, I'd be willing to bet money they will fix the Rev Hang but will bury the HVAC and radio controls behind an infotainment screen AGAIN 😂
Honda have had bad rev hang in all of their manuals since 06.
@@UnrelatedNonsense Def. Got that tuned out of my 8th Gen.
EPA is the rule you are asking.
It's just a more literal/conservative interpretation of the emissions regulations than other manufacturers. There were other brands like Porsche cheating the European drive by noise rules with valves that closed at 50kph near the driveby noise test speed (55 kph) and then open again at 60kph, or Hyundai, Mercedes-Benz, Renault, Mini or Jaguar using other techniques around "offroad use modes" with exhausts that pop and bang and carry on, while Honda never did any of that 'nonsense' either. Honda used and uses a *faithful literal interpretation* of the emissions rules regarding rev hang and not allowing unburnt fuel into the exhaust (those pop and bang factory tunes are the exact opposite!), just as they did for the exhaust noise rules. 🙂
Hmm, not sure what’s going on here. I have a stock 2023 Si, with TSP tune ONLY. Almost no rev hang, dyno’d at 238whp on map3.
For me its all about handling and mpg and the SI excells at that as a daily driver. Its a really really really enjoyable daily for me.
Daily driving the Integra Type-S is the winner hands down. The Si is a budget buy for sure, but the L15 is a flawed engine with the Turbo on it. It's not a matter of if but when the headgasket will blow.
Rev hang for days. Holy moly
I had a ‘21 civic sport hatch with the 1.5t. I tuned to it to +9psi with hondata which also fixed the rev hang. Peak boost would’ve been at 25.5 psi and I never had an issue. No other mods. Such an easy performance upgrade. Great car!
After driving a 10th gen Civic SI coupe, the only things I didn't like about it were the rev hang and the distasteful sound of the engine. Other than those glaring faults, the 10th and 11th gen Civic SIs are so nice, especially for the money.
I had an 06 Civic SI back in the day, the rev hang has been an issue for the SI since all the way back then. Almost 20 years of rev hang is wild.
also asking for some ND3 action brother Zy 🖖
Nice review man! That's a shame about the rev hang.
I wish the FL5 CTR sounded that good! That sounds fantastic.
This is why I got the VB WRX instead, plenty of power with a lot of potential
Agreed. I also bought a VB WRX after test driving the SI. The SI feels really slow. The dirtbag dealer also had markup on the SI. I bought my WRX premium 3k below sticker and 1.9% financing
good choice
Seems like a weird tune. Everyone in the Integra owners facebook group says that the standard off the shelf Ktuner tunes get rid of rev hang. Might try the Stage 0 one on my Integra soon. The rev hang is the only complaint I have with the driving experience.
Sounds great! At last!
BTW this review felt totally relevant for my 2019 Accord Sport MT. I've done a ton of mods, and I've easily gained 40-60 horses. I'm really excited for my lightweight flywheel
This is good information to know about the rev hang. That’s pretty bad.
That thing sounds pretty good! Shame about the rev hang still. Are you getting your hands on an ND3 soon?
On my radar. Will try to get one soon.
@@Zygrene also compare it to a AP2 while youre at it :) /jk
@TT92348 that's fake sound pumped in through the speakers.
Wow! That rev hang is ridiculous! I want it even myself lol
My 10th gen with tune was able to eliminate the rev hang entirely, but it made the throttle so twitchy and jerky
You can change how long the rav hang last by software. Year ago I was window shopping civic, and now I’m looking at wrx for winter.
In anyone’s honest opinion how do you think the tsx hold up to these newer Hondas? I daily a 07 tsx and that k24 is just beautiful.
I eliminated most of my rev hang through ktuner. I thought custom tunes could do that too.
The rev hang can be tuned out to some extent. With the TSP Stage 1+ tune it claims to disable the rev hang but it really just softens it. To get around it, you have to wait like a second after letting off the throttle before pushing the clutch in. The revs will fall normally after that
The rev hang in the Si is not bad during normal driving, but it is much worse when revving it out or with larger throttle inputs, and it really hampers the driving experience
If you have to wait a second, then you’re not getting around the rev hang. You’re just waiting for it to quit hanging
You can literally turn the rev hang off with Ktuner?? At least on the 10th gen...
@@Fryn_Hayn Not an option on 11th gen. I tried
Tune + lightweight flywheel (type R retrofit) is the recipe for the 10th gen. I assume you need both for the 11th as well.
11th gen comes with a single mass flywheel that SHOULD help with rev hang. I wonder if they didn't tune it out?
Maybe lightened flywheel to improve throttle response and reduce rev hang?
odyssey video next please!
id also like to ask, thoughts on this kind of modified Si vs an Elantra N?
That is exactly what I am considering too!
I wonder how close it would be with these mods and rev hang eliminated VS a stock Elantra N?
Would be about the same cost
My 8th Gen had bad rev hang, but when I did a Hondata Reflash it got rid of it.
I've put about 30,000 miles on my 22 civic si at this point. It is the ultimate daily driver. My only complaint (MASSIVE complaint) is the stock reliability. I am on my 2nd engine and 2nd turbo but it still goes into limp mode about twice a year. I'm sure the original engine and turbo were fine, there must be a hidden electrical gremlin. Also, my B pillar is loose and vibrates constantly, its rlly annoying. Other than that, no complaints. Hopefully the issues with my si are just first model year hiccups as I got the car shortly after they were available for the first time. Y'all need to keep in mind, this is NOT a track car. As a guy in my young 20's I needed an everything car and really wanted something fun. This fits that. I do want a track car and in hopefully about a year I'll be making the money to justify the next level in fast. Do NOT buy this car if you want something genuinely quick and hardcore. I looked into mods and parts to make it that and honestly, I'd rather just use that money on the facelift elantra N once they're available. It'll be faster than an si like the one in the video and be under warranty. My advice with these cars is purchase one if you are looking for a fun daily. Don't waste your money on parts trying to make this thing a type R. The 1.5 is much better than I expected it to be. The rev hang is annoying and yes it is not as fast as a GTI but guys it is so much quicker than the average economy car. You are still getting something that feels quick to a normal person even in bone stock form. Compared to something like a base corolla this thing is a rocket ship. It also handles SOOOO good even in stock form, my buddy's gti is no better in corners than this thing, just faster in a straight line. The mpg is genuinely impressive, I once got 50 on a road trip but average 30 in town and 40 freeway driving, which is worth a lot. Anyways, just my 2 cents. Great car but don't waste your money trying to make it a track weapon.
I have a Fiesta ST and put a hybrid turbo in it @35k miles. It’s pushing 26 PSI and makes about 250 whp. It’s at 96k miles now and I drive it everywhere like I stole it. I think the Honda should be able to handle that power. Maybe even 300 but not sure what happens after that.
I’m also trying to get an Elantra N facelift. Such a dope car!
What does the year of your 11th gen have to do with anything? They haven't even came out with a refresh yet.
could’ve got a bimmer 340i bmw are more reliable than a honda these days
@@RemainNameless614 Whats the difference between saying 11th gen or 22? Its shorter. Cope. Also talking about first model year issues which is relevant.
@@shiftautomotive854 Totally different cars. They're cool dont get me wrong but they cost 30k with 50,000 miles. I've also never had an issue with honda's before this. Genuinely think I just have a lemon. Its not even bad the car just turns on a check engine and I wipe the code twice a year. I put 100k miles on a 2018 crv without a single light on the dash, just regular oil changes.
I have a Fiesta ST and put a hybrid turbo in it @35k miles. It’s pushing 26 PSI and makes about 250 whp. It’s at 96k miles now and I drive it everywhere like I stole it. I think the Honda should be able to handle that power. Maybe even 300 but not sure what happens after that.
To be honest, i have a CBR1000RR and for performance you cant beat that torque but as a daily driver with fun factor i am considering this car as a daily.
The main problem with the hondas is that i was quoted out the door for this civic SI at 37000 with a 5000 "market adjustment" and i walked over to ford and quoted a mustang GT 6 speed out the door at 39500. I know MOD's for some people are fun to do but if you can get a RWD V8 with 200+ more HP. there is only a limit people are willing to go.
But great video man and i wish you all the best.
When you cross into the high $30k+ range some cars should just fall off the radar entirely, as as much as I like Honda, the Si shouldn’t be anywhere near that
@Cbrmansc77 You could get a new wrx for that money. The mustang is a coupe with a useless rear seat space. Not really comparable to a sedan for a practical daily driver. But if it works for your lifestyle, go for it!
All that work yet he didn’t tune out the rev hang?
Civic's are now the size of Accord's and Accord's are now the size of Legend's 😩 bad times
The weight is the same though. These are lighter than 8th gen’s while having a longer wheel base and significantly more room. Not a bad thing at all.
Honda Jazz (Fit), Brio and even N-One (small enough? 😀 ) are still made. They are just not for North America. This is due to low profit margins, CAFE footprint rules (and not meeting US crash regulations in the case of the N-One), I guess.
The same 1.5T in a Fit Si than a Civic Si would somehow need to get much better MPGs due to having a smaller CAFE footprint (wheelbase x track), but obviously that's not feasible to realise.
So the CAFE footprint rule is super punitive against making small cars (especially small cars with "big" engines) -- hence why it is to Honda's CAFE advantage to give the Civic a bigger footprint, even if it still only has a 1.5T engine.
for some reason if you blast your ac the rev hang will be less dramatic but also you’re not accelerating as fast as you normally would. not sure why this is a thing but try it in yours and see if it does the same
I am confused, if he has Ktuner why did he not turn the rev hang off?
the rev hang is probably due to fuel efficiency it would be interesting to see what the mpg difference is with the tune
Did they fix the blowing headgaskets?
@Zygrene, can you or the owner please clarify whether rev hang was disabled on the Ktuner? Seems really strange if it has!
The car sounds great by the way! Classic Honda sound, despite the turbo. Love it.
That rev hang is horrible lol So those have TD03 Turbos and adding boost to those is counter intuitive so I'm curious where is the added power coming from? E30 going to let the engine make more power but an intercooler and some front pipes isn't going to get more boost out of that turbo and if he's claiming hp gains then there has to be boost added somewhere?? I'm sure it added a bunch of torque but I doubt that thing breaks 225 whp on a dyno
I ran TSP stage 1 on ktuner on my 10th gen si and it really woke it up. I'm surprised there is still so much revhang with this tune, I had barely any or a reasonable amount anyway. but I upgraded to a type-r before I tossed too much money at it.
My plans exactly with my 10th gen si. Gonna do basic bolt ons but save the rest of my money for the R.
Would a lightweight flywheel help the rev hang? Also in KTUNER there is a check box to reduce rev hang. Was that checked in the tune?
Doesn’t seem like the rev hang was tuned out. I had a 2019 si with a heavier flywheel and you can speed shift that thing with the rev hang off.
Whats the deal with the rev hang? I thought a simple tune can disable it from Ktuner
Yeah it. Tsp stage 1 dampens it, tsp stage 1.5, completely disabled it. A lighter flywheel you might find in a upgraded clutch kit with bring the revs down faster too
@@-thetellyou-1445 good to know 👍
You can with flashpro or any other tuners
To everyone who hates the rev hang, ktuner and hondata help smooth it out! Had the same issue with my stock 10th Gen Si
What did you specifically change with the tune?
TSP Stage 1.5 tune, my rev hang is zero. Clutch in the RPM drops.
All of those mods to make 30 less than my VB wrx did off the showroom floor is wild.
Before I even watched the video I gonna say only if it added a. 100hp and eliminated the rev hang. Only roughly 50hp but livable now to go with handling.
I’m pretty sure the tsp and phearavle tunes disable the rev hang
I have a 2020 Civic Si and the 1.5T is really not that bad, you just need good parts, a good tuner and it’ll last. I’ve put about $8k in performance mods and I’m at 350whp (completely stock engine/trans) no issues.
i got a 2019 si and i’m tryna mod it like yours bro , i love the si its not the fastest but its quick asf i love it , my first manual as well , i’d love the type R but Si i can only afford i jus turned 18😭
What is this tune…I have a ktuner 23 psi and a short ram intake and it make 233whp and no rev hang…
Not sure if its just my 22 Si or what, i noticed a little rev hang when i first started driving it, but the only place i can really tell now is trying to launch fast from 1st to 2nd. You get very used to it. Its a car i plan to have for 10+ years, not something i plan to track. Ultimate daily not an ultimate track car.
If he's on just a Ktuner OTS then he's already missing out on power with a real tune. Rev hang as well gets turned off with a real tune which I dont think is eliminated with ktuner ots tunes
My K20c2 makes a lot less power but I will say it doesn't have rev hang at all. I do wish it had rev matching though for brainless driving during rush hour.
Tuning a car still under warranty is something only an idiot would do
Who signed off on that rev hang? Good lord.
I test drove the 10th gen Si. The absurd levels of rev hang made it a deal breaker. Then I wanted an 11th gen Si, the 10k mark ups were an even worse deal breaker. Honda keeps coming so close to making the Si good.
Try picking up an older 2016 Honda Accord V6 Coupe 6MT
With lower mileage of course
Why is the rev hang still so bad with the KTuner? Supposedly that’s the fix. I do like the way it sounds now though.
Na it actually doesn't fully get rid of it it just makes it slightly better.
@@whereswaldo9089watching this video, the rev hang almost seems worse than it was in my stock ‘23 when I had it.
@@alexp6409 if it's a base map could be it needs an actual custom tune to fix it or be better.
The classic "fun ratio" is 10:1 (weight to horsepower) To make this car fun using this logic, it needs 290 hp or thereabouts, but getting that little 1.5 there carefully is difficult. Perhaps methanol and "add lightness" by stripping it down a few hundred pounds might get you there by removing interior things, lighter rims, CF trunk and hood?
All these fbo tunes are good until the rods go bye bye. The L15 has such weak internals and isn't meant to be a performance engine sadly. Honda just cheaped out and adapted the Fit engine for boost.
The rev hang is the reason why I sold my 2020 civic si after a year ownership
You know you can completely delete it with a ktuner right? Did with mine and it is so much better.
@@gbona yea I was aware but then the “reliability” of the 1.5 blah blah…
What about the rev hang in your Type S compared to the Si?
So is the rev hang due to the factory tune or the dual mass flywheel? Or both?
Rev hang is there on stock; this guy did not tune it correctly or its a driver issue. My 22 SI has nowhere close to this, not a fair review.
light weight flywheel would do wonders im sure
Did Two McLarens drive by and he was just unfazed?...
Typical day in the canyons of Socal!
@Zygrene oh nice, which area? I live by GMR and azusa canyons
With all those upgrades, wouldn't have going with a Type R been the better choice?
To be fair he's probably still 8-10k under the price of a Type R after those mods
alternatively elantra n
Huge price difference
Valid point. Si with the right mods is definitely still cheaper but finding a Type R at MSRP would still be my choice.
Like a built wrx vs sti
If you change the flywheel with the clutch it should get rid of most of it
Why void the 60K warranty trying to make a 2023 Si into a track car? You could solve all these problems for about the same price of a used 2021 Type R. You'd get a far more capable track car that has full powertrain coverage.
you can get rid of the rev hang with the k-tuner
Why does this one still have it so bad then? They just forgot to check the box or something?
Nah. It needs a lightweight flywheel.
I wonder if a Hondata tune would have lessened the rev hang, more so than with Ktuner.
No.
Nah. Needs a lightweight flywheel.
Someone commented below that they tuned their civic with a hondata ecu, and it fixed the rev hang 😁
Any idea what Brembo kit that is?
Genesis coupe
tracking the L15 is some risky business
Rev hang has been an annoyance since the 8th gen. Sad its still so bad.
Besides Honda, what is a fun first car to learn how to drive a manual? I'm getting one soon!
Gr86 brz
@tonychau1983 thank you, I'll add this car to the list and do some research on it!
I miss my FA5
where the ND3 thooo
That rev hang is a deal breaker. I thought my 06 TSX had bad rev hang but this is on another level. I would opt for a used Golf GTI instead of this car.
Rev hang makes it sound like 💩
@155stw I wouldn't buy a VW, nothing but problems!
I mean its not like you was going to get one in the first place.
Bro really spent all that money instead of just buying the type r and it would’ve been a better bang for the buck
The amount of curb rash on those wheels is wild….id be embarrassed to have my car reviewed that way
If you tracked your car, you would understand why his wheels look like that. It happens sometimes when you’re driving at the vehicles limits.
Crazy that Honda is still doing rev hang bs on their cars. My 2007 SI-dan had rev hang but not nearly as bad as this car. yikes.
According to Hondata these cars make around 225 horsepower from factory and Honda sandbags the numbers
Lightweight flywheel will fix that rev hang
The 1.5 is still a mega dealbreaker, it’s great you can throw a few mods at it but it won’t be able to handle it for long
The tune should have removed that hang. He needs to get on a TSP map.
If it has a tune but still has rev-hang, the tune needs some work.
No rev hang with the forte GT
Yeah. But it’s still a Kia.
I'm sorry I cant take a car reviewer seriously if they say 200 hp is 'measley'. Also its been shown on a wheel dyno they make close to 200, not 200 crank, 200 wheel.
You want Rev hang? Drive an 06' Si. I haven't had that car in years but it's still hanging at 8200.
The biggest weakness is being priced near the type R 😂
but it isnt. its 14k cheaper, and thats without the dealer markups.
Dealers in FL still marking FL5 for 50k and higher.
It's nearly $20k less expensive
it blows my mind that people would purchase this over other similarly priced options, i suppose if gas mileage is your main concern but still want to have a little bit of fun.... but man... looks incredibly boring to drive even with all those mods. Cant believe the tune did not do a thing about the rev hang.
HELL YHEA A GOT 24 CIVIC SI CANT WE DO SOMETHING WICH MY CAR WERE Y CANT EMAIL YOU
Im wondering if the oem dampers blow out eventually with the lowering springs?
They won't
❤
Surely all those mods make it more expensive than a type r.... whats the fucking point.
Zero Rev Hang on the Forte GT 6 Speed. Come on Honda.
I had a 2020 SI for maybe 3 months before I traded it back to dealer at a loss. The rev hang was just unbearable and a 1.5 is just too small for a nearly 3,000 lbs car. Honda missed the mark on this SI, it should have been a detuned K20 but Honda knows that no one would buy a CTR. I personally hate the looks of the new Type R, it's a half-assed attempt at a hatchback.
with that nasty rev hang I would not even of bothered modifying and tuning car. Its a deal breaker.
Ill just stick to my 13’ Si and boost it tbh , the 1.5 engine is okay
220hp stock🤔hondata dyno tested it
No tf it isn't. It's 200 crank and 160 or less to the wheels
@@i.d.6492 watch the hondata baseline dyno run, 220hp
@@emperorgsx either way it's still slow. For the money he spent on mods and all that he could have had way more track focused Elantra N with 390 whp
Hondata.
No more rev hang.