Worst Levels Ever # 43
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 ธ.ค. 2022
- Unfortunately, although there are lots of fantastic levels and stages in video games, there are also a fair few awful ones.
I don't believe I've made it clear in the past on what such a Pokemon battling fanatic I am. I think it's incredible how they've managed to turn an RPG combat system into a competitive sport; (One with RNG, but still) for me, it's the best side of Pokemon, and no matter how easy they might make the main adventure these days, you can still count on online battling to satisfy my Pokemon battle itch, as I call it.
However, it wasn't always so easy to find opponents to give me the challenge I craved. There were in-game and even side games designed to expand upon the battling aspect of the game, but often times, the execution left me feeling very frustrated and/bored...
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#Pokemon #Gaming #worst - เกม
To better explain battle palace BS, each pokemon is programmed to do not a certain move, but move category based on its nature. The move categories are offense, defense and support.The issue is that no matter your nature, there is still a chance for the pokemon to want to use a move that is categorized as support or defense, but you lack the move and they do nothing. As a result, a "good" battle palace comp requires getting moves from those categories, usually buffs and what not
Is that what the "incapable of using its power" message means?
@@Wiimeiser I guess so.
Likely yeah. Put stuff like toxic on some offensive pokemon just so wasting turns went towards something lol
This is why I made my entire team for the Battle Palace with the Hardy Nature. Giving the Highest priority to Attacking and doesn't change when dropped bellow 50% health. And I made sure my team's movesets were 2 Attacks, 1 Defense, and 1 Support, so we would never get left open to an attack.
@@ThedarksenshiYou are a genius for sharing that.
There's a video out there of someone losing to Quick Claw Horn Drill Rhydon. One of the most painful things to watch.
That mofo soured me on Battle Frontier forever. Quick Claw Horn Drill, then Protect, and then Quick Claw Horn Drill again. I do not remember how I lost the 3rd Pokemon, but the damage was done.
Bet it's Werster
**Sees fog and double teams from opponent over and over**
Machamp: *So anyways I started punching really really hard*
(laughs in No Guard)
@@MasterZebulin "I'm gonna start punching the air really hard, and if I ever hit you then it's going to be your fault"
@@AZV0108 Well, given it's ability that's not going to be too difficult, lol!
Sadly, No Guard was added in Gen 4, Machamp is stuck with Guts for this
@@SomeAsian Fog was also added in gen 4. Sadly, can't do anything about Double team aside from Sure Hit moves.
Ah yes, the part of my childhood I still have nightmares about
Edit: Never realised how good Shiny Slowbro looks in gen 3
Finally someone who understands my pain when going though the battle facilities in these games.
How to fix the Battle Frontier:
All facilities: Divide the silver and gold challenges into separate rooms, so if you lose against the brain in your 70th battle, you effectively don't have to play the first 35 or however many over again to face the stronger opponents. Also, give players the option of bringing in a full team of six and using the same item twice, which will allow for more strategy and fewer matches decided on luck, and maybe using BP to buy a limited number of continues.
Dome: Better and clearer descriptions of what the opponent's strengths and weaknesses are instead of vague crap like "skilled at upsetting foes emotionally." Full teams of six are especially important, here.
Pyramid: More space in the bag, so you aren't constantly having to throw away items because you ran out of slots.
Factory: More rental Pokémon at the start (choose 3 out of 12, or 6 out of 24), so you're much less likely to get screwed over by a crappy initial selection. Also, an option to save one or two of them for the next challenge, so you can keep using a really good one, and fixing the glitch that makes the strength of the Pokémon you get dependent on how many wins you have in the Tower, as opposed to the Factory.
Pike: Have the attendants give you descriptions for all three doors (not just one), reduce the standard trainers to only using 1-2 Pokémon instead of 3 (except for the "tough" trainers where you get healing afterwards), and limit the number of status conditions you can get to one per room (instead of the nonsense where your entire team gets frozen in one go).
Palace: Raze the place to the ground and mount Spenser's head on a pole over the ashes as a warning to anyone who ever wants to pull such crap, again. Or if that's too harsh, at least give the player the exact percentages for each nature, with nature mints available here instead of several generations later, and have the player's Pokémon get better AI and make smarter decisions if you have a high friendship with them.
But in the Battle Pike, the status conditions are actually dependent on how far you actually get. If you encounter a Pokemon giving you a status condition on the first room, then only one will get the status condition, and if it's your semifinal room, then all Pokemon get status conditions. (not saying it's good, I'm just explaining how it actually works)
@@Thedarksenshi I never thought that the Pike always hands out three status conditions; my revision was just that three was too many in any situation, even the semifinal room, and to make it always be one, regardless of the room.
Yeah I feel that. I once lost my second to last battle (for the Battle Tower Ribbon) because I missed twice in a row with Earthquake because the enemy had Bright Powder equipped. And then I had to start all over again and pray that I don't get unlucky.
I used to love the Battle Facilities as a kid, but knowing how much of a role RNG plays really soured it for me, especially with the streak records. I still try it here and there and love when opponents are toe for toe with me, but more often than not the fight really favors them.
You might enjoy emerald rogue, it's a roguelike style rom hack of emerald, but it's pretty high quality. It reminds me in some ways of the battle frontier, but it's definitely more forgiving and has more room for strategy. It has gen 8 items and physics and you start with Pokemon up to gen 3, but you can unlock later generations if you get to the end
Thunderdance would be PERFECT for that Crobat... IF YOU COULD PICK YOUR MOVES.
I do like how the new towers (including the Maison/Tree, which are basically the Tower but reskinned) give points each battle. Makes it much less painful to get that Choice Band.
I've seen fog done decently all of once- and that's because Unbound throws counters to Fog at you, including a free Keen Eye mon (which, in Unbound, ignores ALL evasion bullshit) for talking to a guy in an early town, a trade for Ducklett with Defog, and even the Hone Claws TM to just set up and laugh with your starter, or with the Sandshrew-A you have access to that resists everything the first Gym has.
Now my favorite implementation of battle facilities is probably the Underground Arena from Crystal Clear. It's a "marathon" where you get a full heal before every fifth battle- but not only do you get BP each win, you can choose the relative difficulty of your opponents! You can choose to fight with unevolved "Little Cup" picks, fully evolved mons, or both (and middle stages ofc), as well as adding more Stat EXP (since it's a Gen 2 hack) to the opposing Pokémon, which also gives you more BP for a win.
You can choose Level 5, 50, 100, or "Scaled"- where your opponent matches your highest level. On Scaled, you gain fewer BP, but your mons *gain exp*, so you can even train your team a bit in there.
Thunderdance? That is not a move.
@ It's shorthand for the Rain Dance/Thunder combo.
@ It's the Rain + Thunder combo because Thunder's accuracy shoots up from 70 to 101 (meaning it can't miss) when it's raining.
Woah, someone that talks about the Battle Frontier that isn't a fanatic that wants it to return at every single opportunity.
I think when people say they want the Battle Frontier back it just means more varied modes for battling in the postgame as content, even something like Gen 4's postgame is enough.
@@islandboy9381 Gen 5’s post-game was great tho. BW’s was decently long and B2W2 was about twice that length, maybe even more.
B2W2 also may not have had a Battle Frontier in name, but it basically had one in the sense it had 4-5 facilities to use-the Battle Subway (with multiple formats), the White Treehollow/Black Skyscraper, and the PWT (which was similar to the Battle Dome and had a Battle Factory mode in there.)
We don’t need the Battle Frontier to return in the exact same way every time. We were basically given it in Unova, just packaged differently.
As for Gen 6-onwards, though, yeah, that sort of varied gameplay isn’t around as much anymore. USUM did add the Battle Agency on top of the Battle Tree tho, and SwSh did at least added Mustard’s Dojo as a separate battle facility on top of the Battle Tower.
It absolutely should have come back for ORAS and BDSP, at least.
@@komarunaegi7460I mean
I would've taken getting gen 5's postgame back, too
I was never able to grow onto battle tower systems, I tried to get invested during gen 7, but it felt like the battle tree was hard countering my Pokémon outright
That actually happened with a special focussed Garchomp using surf, which is ridicolous
@@handhelder823 They often do have some rather ridiculous and unorthodox sets in those facilities sometimes. I remember battling a sub punch Chansey (or maybe it was Blissey?) that was barely able to even scratch my Aggron with focus punch, despite the move being 150 base power and being 4x super effective, which is kinda hilarious
Freakin Battle Tree and its "Win 50 battles in a row" challenge will haunt me forever. It's probably worse than the 100 battle challenge mentioned in the video since mascot legendaries are banned and the enemy trainers regularly use Mega Evolutions.
i loved the battle tree in gen 7 its the one thing i want back in newer games
@@matthewkuscienko4616 They have unorthodox and ridiculous sets all the time, in every facility. It's more a test of making a team that can handle the unexpected than pure strategy. Especially since team selections often have gimmicks of similar.kinds of mons, so being weak to a trainer likely means more in the back.
"I want you to take a look at this picture (battle pyramid) and this picture (fighting type gym)."
"They're the same picture."
I second the "bosses need checkpoints before them". I've beaten every Ys game (with the most recent versions I could find) on just Hard and even then I definitely would have given up on some if I hadn't been able to just retry the bosses immediately. It's hard to go back to say, the DS Castlevania games afterwards, which send you all the way back to the title screen. I've grown too impatient.
Doesn't that happen in GBA Castlevania games as well?
@@deathblowringo4168
Oh, it does, SotN does it too (good thing that one's very easy, because it loads for longer).
... I'm afraid my secret is out of the bag. I much prefer the DS entries x)
Yeah, I never liked the battle facilities in general. It's way too stupid especially in ones like the Battle Tree, where you may be having a good streak, and then your run ends because a random opponent brought out something that completely counters you and you have no control over anything and no chance to win. Especially when reaching and winning the 50th battle in the Tree is how you unlock Red and Blue's special theme!
My best streak was 34, all because some random-ass trainer decided to bring a Mega Beedrill to completely shut down my Azelf and Mega Altaria.
Also, I like your point here at 8:26. That is a problem that Kirby games also majorly suffer from, when it comes to the Soul bosses, you can't practice them at all because they're exclusive to fighting 10+ things beforehand...
Forgotten Land bucked that trend by letting you try again at a price, at least.
Except that price increases up to 2000 each time...
You at least know how the previous bosses work, so it shouldn’t take long to get back to it
This video is bringing back memories of Werster’s Battle Frontier runs lmao
I used to be someone who really hated that there was no Battle Frontier in OR/AS, but looking back on it, I don't mourn the exclusion of the Battle Frontier. It's for the same reason as yours in this video, as I don't have the patience to deal with all the RNG nonsense that can and will ruin a run without using save states and fast forward. Win streak system has never been something I actually liked in video games, as it just puts way too much stress on me not to lose or get screwed over by the RNG at play.
The Battle Frontier and stuff like that should instead have something like an elo system, a score that increases as you win and decreases as you lose, and if your opponent has a higher score than you, winning against them is more rewarding and losing would not lower your score as much.
Then they would throw opponents with a score similar to your own, with the occasional battle against an opponent with a significantly different score (ex. the Frontier brains would have a much higher elo than you when you fight them, to suit their higher level of challenge)
It's funny you mentioned the Battle Frontier because I was thinking back on it recently. I wondered: "Why didn't they put it in ORAS?". Seemed' like an odd exclusion since they hyped it up so much back with Emerald's release. Then I remembered that the place mostly stunk because of how luck-based things were set up. Also extremely grindy in both battle streak amounts and BP to get items. Mind you they could've updated the facilities/BP prizes (either giving more BP or reducing BP of items to buy them). But I'm not sure what they could've done to fix them as many of the ideas they had are completely self-contained. So they would probably have to make entirely new facilities.
Take the Battle Factory for instance: Random Pokemon and moves for all. How would one even balance that? If they utilized a tier list to put certain Pokemon and Moves on certain tiers, there are so many combinations that chances are you'd never end up with a team that can handle all the threats like you could if you built your own and eventually hit a wall. This is multiplied further with the new Pokemon made since Emerald too. They definitely need to reduce the streak amount too because 42 for gold is very unlikely. (Reducing the streak for all of them would be ideal really)
I don't even know what sort of player the place was built for either. The high luck elements alienated the more competitive/serious players because there's no way to be consistent in them yet the high difficulty alienated the less competitive players because it was essentially a place that one couldn't even play much of because it's difficulty (even if the luck stuff was removed) is far above the main game. You will also probably need to alter your team for some facilities too (Minus the Battle Factory of course) because of their very specific elements (Battle Palace move locking anyone?), which means swapping Pokemon moves at best or a load of grinding at worst for a new team if you find out there isn't enough or the right moves to match a Pokemon which you couldn't know ahead of time when playing the game blind.
So yeah, they probably got rid of the Battle Frontier because they examined it and figured out it's pretty unfixable in every way.
ORAS is my favorite game but I do not agree with this personally. The palace was a misfire for sure but hating on the battle factory is cringe. It's a unique experience every time you challenge it and you get to learn how to use interesting pokemon. You get to pick 3 out of the 6 choices you are given and you can see the moves and abilities, so if it's still too unbalanced for you then I recommend trying chess.
@@owenmurphy924 Nah, the Battle Frontier was a mess of gimmicks and RNG. If they wanted to make an actually fun challenge, there's way better places to take inspiration from than this.
I think its better if there are stages for the win streak. Like you can choose to continue from 100-200 levels and such.
Funny thing, the Battle Factory in Emerald actually had a glitch, where the difficulty of regular trainers was based on your win streak in the Battle Tower. (This also had an effect on when you traded one of their Pokemon for yours, since the difficulty included their IVs)
Emeralds battle frontier separates men from boys. It takes a huge amount of patience to take on the many obstacles but it feels so good when you get all of the symbols
Or it's just not worth it
I have no idea why the game in the description is listed as "Nintendo Pokemon Smaraged Edition".
Man your videos are always super interesting and well thought out. Been watching you for years.
Keep being awesome, Git.
I dunno if you read the comments but here I go: I Love your content. It reminds me of the childlike wonder of playing videogames.
I like the few videos with voiceovers, too. You sound calm and you have great comedic timing.
After seeing this, I think I see why they don't bring back Battle Frontiers. An RNG on top of RNG is basically a worst nightmare ya had.
Win streaks are really a painful mechanic, especially when the opponents are as willing as they are to make winning against them sheer RNG via double team, focus band and many other bullshit.
Even then... man, I sure wish we had a quality battle frontier in modern games, most of the time I spent playing Emerald and Platinum was on them, and I was OBSESSED with the Emerald one... but I had no clue about IVs and EVs yet so at max I reached the silver medal in the Battle Pike since it was very short to get to that fight compared to the rest, never gonna forget my team of Blaziken, Manectric and Metagross for giving me that one victory. (Talking about the Battle Pike, you can get tips about what can be on the other side if you talk to the maid near the doors.)
Now that I know an absolute fuckton more about Pokemon battles I could face the challenges... but Gen 5 spoiled me too much in terms massive quality of life improvements that anything before that just feels bad to play. Gen 3 is before physical/special split, which gutted so many Pokemon, and both gens have one time only TMs... yikes, I hate that so much, if I give a powerful move to one of my Pokemon it's gone forever, I can't give it to any other I want to use, it's miserable.
Thanks for the video, also... "the fog is deep", that brought so many memories from when I watched the Battle Revolution fights in the Twitch Plays Pokemon channel, ayyy.
Gen II was before the Physical/Special split. Gen III's what introduced it in XD, though the mainline games didn't get it until Gen IV with Diamond and Pearl.
I've sunken hundreds of hours into Emerald's Battle Factory, even accounting for 8x speed, and while I love the concept of making the most out of what you're dealt, this mode really tests your patience. On top of the win streak system, the pool is largely filled with absolute garbage, even as you get your streak higher. For instance, there are a lot of physical attackers who run Fire Blast/Crunch and special attackers who have Earthquake, and their stat spread is all messed up because the devs try to account for both. There are many, many examples, but one of my favorites is Forretress running EQ, Zap Cannon, Giga Drain, and Explosion (the last one alone is great enough to pick him up, though). Honorable mentions go to RestTalk + Rollout Shuckle, Metronome Clefable, and Horn Drill + Sheer Cold Dewgong. Sure, the opponent is just as likely to get these Pokemon, but it takes one Double Team/Curse spammer to ruin your streak should you not have any checks to it (boosters, Aerial Ace, etc). The ocassional Sheer Cold/Fissures are also annoying, but I also find those moments funny since they're rare. And yet, I still love playing Battle Factory, jank and all.
And yes, I have played a lot of random battles in Showdown, but there's something therapeutic about turning your brain off and mowing through teams.
6:51 "HERE YOU ARE
. SOME TOXIC SWEETS"
Okay, I'll defend alot of the Battle frontier's Gimmicks, even with alot of the Downsides that are associated with them, but the Battle Palace and it's "You're at the Mercy of RNGsus, pick a God and Pray" bullshit can Honstly go to hell and get drenched in every ignitable fluid along the way!
Losing hours of progress to bad RNG is quite possibly one of the least enjoyable experiences in a video game. I wish the Pokemon games would have optional challenges in the form of short-but-brutal optional bosses instead of these, although I somehow managed to enjoy the gen 4 Battle Frontier quite a bit.
(To clarify, I mean optional bosses that would still be a massive challenge at level 100, not just ones like Cynthia or Steven that are overleveled compared to the final boss)
Your relationship with Pokémon battles sounds a lot like me and souls-likes. From Software recently added a fully featured PvP mode to Elden Ring, complete with matchmaking, different rule sets like team deathmatch, free-for-all, and duels, and even different arenas. Only problem is that the game isn't remotely balanced for PvP so you never see any unique or creative builds, just whatever is overpowered on the current patch. Plus, grinding characters up to level 150 to make them PvP viable is time consuming.
I never watched one of your vids in this series before cause I always assumed they would be lazy and mass produced, but this is honestly great stuff, keep it up! I hope you have more Pokémon videos like this!
The Battle Pike is My favorite because you had to adapt your strategies on the fly; It turns boys and girls into men and women and it's RNG done right. The Battle Palace, however, is a literal crapshoot. And what a perfect analogy to describe it; It's a casino and the house always wins. I mean, what makes the battle pike fun is that fact that even though you constantly need to adapt, you always have the opportunity to adapt. With the Battle Palace, you have no opportunity to adapt and thus, you're expected to get on your knees and pray to whatever cosmic power(s) you believe in.
When the Frontier Attraction is so bad that it makes you actively hate your pokemon and.or release them out of sheer spite, you know you're in for a bad time.
24:47
Okay, I believe that's an edit there, but I couldn't help but to wheeze laugh seeing the return and send out message there.
It's not an edit. You can make your own custom messages in that game, including sone others like the win, lose and battle start.
I would say Sword and Shield Battle Tower sort of reminded me of the Battle Factory where you can battle with Pokemon other than your own so that meant no grinding up some Pokemon to make them how you wanted, so you were good to go. I have to say it has been a few weeks by now, I finally won 50 Super Single Battles at the Battle Tree in Sun. Wanna know my MVP team? Cloyster, Medicham and Dragonite.
Also, it would be up more to Git's speed because of the fact the game doesnt make you force save, meaning you can just save, battle, then put a hold on your challenge and save again. And you can soft reset if you lose with no consequences.
15:30
Lul, I just find it funny that this dude has a crobat, and decides to just full on be the zubat serotype that everyone hates in caves, cranked to 11!
My personal crobat was also annoying. Acrobatics, haze, toxic, and taunt, with eject button. Main role was as an 'anti-lead', to screw over the lead with taunt. Then it could come back later, either as an assassin with 140 bp acrobatics, or to ruin your set up with haze, toxic, and taunt. Fun part was using infiltrator to sneak those status conditions (or outright murder) behind a sub anyway.
As a general rule, if a pokemon pisses me off in my playthough of a game, I catch it and use it. Odds are, if it pisses me off, it's good.
PWT in Black/White 2. You’ll thank me later.
It's 100 times better, plus you even get to see prominent characters again and more powerful than before. I didn't even bother touching the Battle Subway in that game.
And people actually say they WANT the Battle Frontier to return
Pokémon fans really are masochists
The lack of post game in the modern Pokémon games is just depressing. And there’s no stadium or battle revolution style game to help relieve that either. Which is so weird considering all the QoL changes the modern Pokémon games have like being able to change natures and movesets on the fly.
I wouldn't say post game in modern games is lacking since most of them do offer plenty of content. You just have look or adjust to some of the content.
@@dnmstarsi I wouldn't say there isn't ANY post game content, just Lackluster Post game content.
S/V for example: other than just catching Legendaries and Completing the Dex, your Post game amounts to:
-Go Rematch each Gym leader ONCE and ONLY ONCE.
-Do the Ace Tournament in Mesagoza.
-Look for Raids until you get a Notification about 6 Star Raids.
-Return to Area Zero to catch any Paradox Pokemon, and get a Second Koraidon/Miraidon.
Still more than some Post games, but that doesn't make it all that fun.
@@StarlightMagician That's subjective, dude. Some folks can have fun with that kind of content while being satisfied with what we got after the credits. Going with Scarlet and Violet,
- You STILL got your rematch with the gym leaders but now you have to fight them as opposed to optional while getting some story or development from them as you're testing their skills as gym leaders.
-You can get items and such from the Academy Ace Tournament which serves as the Wyndon tournament replacement. Also battling trainers you didn't fight initially and just having a good time with the academy characters you possibly bonded with.
-You still have high level raids to do which reward good items and completing the post game story unlocks 7-Star Raids despite it being an event thing.
-Certain Gym challenges can be replayed for additional bonuses including the Auction stuff which has/will have major value.
-Area Zero (which will probably include DLC possibly post game required).
Regardless of what some think, you still have stuff to do and plenty of it. There's plenty of fun to be had without resorting to competitive facilities or pandering to fans with past characters. It's definitely welcomed but not always needed to be entertaining or loaded with content.
My bros and I nicknamed every place like that "Hax Tower". Every single of those places in every generation, we always get screwed over by shit like Quick Claw Horn Drills. When I took this twice in three moves and got ended, I knew those facilities weren't for me.
It was fun cheating back and hacking my gen 7 pokemon and delete the Battle Tree with my Primordial Sea Scizor and my bro's Contrary Serperior. The last piece of fun I had before Dexiting Pokemon come Gen 8.
FU, Battle Tower, Battle Frontier, and your ilk; I won't miss you.
The whole facility would have been so much more enjoyable without the 7 win streak , maybe just 2 or 3
I thought you were gonna complain how annoying it is to level a bagon into a salamence honestly...
Color me surprised!
Merry Gitsmas everyone
And a Happy Who Year!
Hallelublub!
Merry christmas
Ah, the Battle Frontier and Pokemon Battle Revolution. Both of them were my first stepping stones as a competitive Pokemon Trainer, as frustrating as they were, Back then, the games were in top form until the competitive atmosphere got better. To be honest, I miss them.
You should play the raids you will get rage when ur teammates all bring the worst possible choice or u miss a move cause u didn’t pick fast enough or u do pick But something Happens and ur turn is skipped and they get to attack and steal ur tera (terrible design mechanic) in the battle on a rare 7 star battle most of the people know what they are doing though and actually dk all the work for me thank god they use fake tears belly drum calm mind and drain punch, play rough or somethjng like that. I’m waiting for the cinderace event on dec 30th but I hate how slow combat can be sometimes and how repetitive it feels at times as well the talking is very annoying and I wish they could have an option to speed combat up and skip animations and saying this was raised or lowered they don’t even add new cool ones anyway so after a little bit It’s not even fun to watch them besides the few Pokémon who actually get something. They Limit the number per game but can’t even make unique stuff. The one on the Wii was very good the tournament one with the really good graphics and stuff u could transfer ur Pokémon from game intk it to which was eben netter. I think u could on the older one as well. I am buying arceus for my dad for Christmas I hope it’s even worth it as a game. I see there is an emulator that does all what I want mostly but it should be in game.
Seeing Salamence made me think of Pokemon Ranger, but it's instead the G3/G4 battle facilities
Those who know about the temple trial mission in original know my pain. Holy shit did it filter me when I first played it.
Flygon and Kingdra are okay but Salamence is a beast. Absurd amount of loops (back when you had to do X loops in one go, rather than having a progress bar), keeps moving constantly, hits pretty hard AND has an attack that covers the whole place just so you can't stall. Oh also your partner is useless, despite the thing being Dragon/Flying, so it's just you against the fucker.
I think you also have to do the whole trial from beginning every time you lose against it, but that one might be me just misremembering.
Oh yeah, that Salamance was one of the more bs things the game threw at you. Good thing that the sequel improved the system substantially
I definitely fell out of love with this series as its' flaws became more and more pronounced with each generation: HP still takes too long to drain, weaknesses still turn most battles into one-turn affairs, and RNG still favors the AI by a country mile. Status effects in a game with one party member allowed are still tolerable if you can use restoratives, but when you can't...
There's some DS/3DS YuGiOh games I enjoy for much the same reasons, but they all have an endurance mode where your win streak is guaranteed to end after 10-15 duels due to a 'brick' hand. Still more enjoyable than the real thing or online play.
I think Pokemon Black 2 / White 2's Pokemon World Tournament is a near perfect way to do a battle facility in Pokemon, as you don't have to worry about a streak to progress through challenging battles, you only have to win a certain amount of times to unlock a more challenging tournament.
I mainly just want the battle pyramid and factory return. To hell with a "Winstreak", I want to just do fun shit.
The Battle Agency in USUM and the Battle Tower in SWSH follow a ranking mechanic as well and holy crap where was this when I played both Battle Frontiers AAAAAH.
With how easier is getting competitive-ready mons today you'd expect these kind of challenges would make sense to come back but nah, SV doesn't even have the basic ass Battle Tower...
I'd like to see the Battle Frontier come back, but only if it takes notes from the PWT from Gen V. The PWT had only hard opponents with strong teams, and you still got a small reward even if you didn't finish the whole round. Plus, you don't have to clear consecutive rounds to unlock anything; most of the tournaments open after clearing the other tournaments once, and the final tournament opens after 10 clears total, not consecutively. It's the best execution of the Battle Tower formula yet and it baffles me why it never came back, especially with competitive sets being easier to prep now than ever before
"An intense Knockout Battle where you try to get as many wins as you can!"
At this point in the video, you don't need to explain why you hate that one. Not without the "it's worse than just that" aspect, anyway.
Also, losing your Pokemon to Struggle sounds like a humiliating way to lose a win streak, as if losing the win streak wasn't frustrating enough.
Double Team is the bane of everyone's existance in these modes, but do note that it can always be worse. In all of GameFreak's infinite wisdom, they decided that Minimize needed to be *_BUFFED_* from one stage of evasion to *_TWO STAGES._*
They really want their players to suffer.
I don't know what they were thinking buffing Minimize like that in gen 5. Stomp does double damage to a Minimized user, which is a clever mechanic, but it's far too specfic to be considered a major weakness. Anyone that runs a Evolite Minimize Chansey in an online match is just asking for the opponent to disconnect on them.
There should have been a rank system like in Battle Revolution. That would have made all the difference in Battle Frontier.
That and giving more BP.
this is like unlocking katze in bushido blade all over again.
I actually liked the Platinum battle frontier a lot. Sure it still had the win streak system, but the gimmicks were a lot less of a punch in the gut then Emerald's battle frontier and I had a lot of fun messing around there as a wee lad.
I definitely had more fun with that one, but the Battle Hall was extremely stressful, and getting destroyed by your own Pokemon in the Battle Arcade sucked.
@@whoisthisgit Battle Hall was actually my favorite one, i'm not sure why I just remember that one the most fondly. Battle Arcade was terrible though, get enough bad rolls and there isn't much you can do other than lose.
I came around to battle revolution recently actually, once I revisited without my own pokemon to transfer and was past the initial intro colosseums. Getting a grasp on the rental system made me obsess over galvanizing teams with whatever I ended up finding, and I found myself using options I wouldn't otherwise consider, like a pure accurracy team to eventually bypass that courtyard bullshit.
I mean, the good obtuse options anyways, not the pokemon that learn snore and dream eater with no rest moves or other attacks.
The battle tower in pokemon crystal solves most of the problems. It's hard from the start and streaks don't matter. DVs and experience stats are high in that place. You get different opponents and movesets per level you choose and you can battle under Lv 50. The only downside is it's only a tower with no exclusive reward, it can become stale quickly, but not frustrating
For Courtyard Colosseum, I won with an Eeveelution team, but if I didn't find a system where I could get the full recovery section of the wheel (almost) every time, no chance they would've survived (The one or two times I missed it I almost failed).
But the fact that all trainers use no more than 4 Pokemon into you means winning with a fully healed team of 6 is manageable outside of dumb luck.
And thankfully with self-boosting moves and Baton Pass, I was able to use Fog in my favour.
I think the win streak system could've been better if it was divided into tiers-
After a set no. Of battles, you will rise by one tier, making the next set of battles more difficult.
You can start from any of the tiers you have cleared.
But the lower tiers reward the least, pitiful low BP while higher ones reward considerably more BP.
That would've been less frustrating IMO.
(I got this idea from Persona 3's Tartarus)
Here we go
I like the idea of letting a Pokémon choose their own moves, but that's definitely one of those things that has to be done right or not at all. And I'm not confident that there's any conceivable way for them to do it right, so...yeah, probably one of those things that shouldn't happen again.
I didn't ever do anything with the Battle Frontier on account of lacking the versions which had them most of the time. I dabbled a bit in Gen 7's battle tree but never really could get into it. I'd rather just play against friends, even though there's no 'rewards', not that I ever had the patience to grind up like that in the first place. (ScarVi making those BP-locked items just regular buys is a HUGE plus.)
I feel like the only real issue with Pokémon's battle system is it's lack of snappiness. I don't think that's an inherent issue, but one of execution. I don't need every single stat boost to be meticulously outlined to be over umpteen message boxes, especially since there's only one animation for the effect. Multi-hit moves can hit WAY faster. The message system should be faster and have less down time. The down time for trainers bringing out new Pokémon is also generally longer than it needs to be. It's better than it used to be, but there's still a lot of room for improvement...though, I think it's hard to implement a lot of improvement when corporate demands you shove a new installment down our throats every three years. (Please, TPC & GameFreak, five years minimum before Gen 10. I am patient, I promise.)
I think for the win streak especially for getting the symbols they should just store your wins luck happens (especially with the bs of these facilities) so you should be able to mitigate the luck by being able to save your streak between sets
Oh, dear Arceus, the Battle Frontier… I hated it. I never got far at all there. Or any of the post-game battle facilities for that matter.
If I wanted to see battles against the Frontier Brains, I’d rather watch the Frontier arc in the anime. That is way better than… THIS.
Agree
I recently finished a Super Doubles and Super Multi battles 50 winstreak in UM and I completely understand the frustration. It was intense, but still fun.
I feel that the Battle Frontier concept should evolve into something like Stadium, because the Pyramid alone can carry a whole game. But they should also split them into Competitive mode and Casual mode.
Casual mode should do what modern games do and just... let you get stuff if you grind enough. Look at Sword and Shield, you can participate on raids to get battle items, you can use the Cram-o-matic to get battle items from the junk that gets accumulated on your bag, you can just get experience from catcing Pokémon, grind 4 types of currency to get vitamins, Ability Patches, Bottle caps... The game is set up in a way that everything you do is working towards something, which is weird because the EV system is the only thing running against that.
nice use of my favorite pokemon, starmie in colosseum.
Whoever thought of having where your Pokémon are frozen before the battle is down right evil.
Imagine doing both Mt. Battles in both of the Orre games... Please never do what I did.
Unless you want their rewards... Which are worthless nowadays because Ho-Oh and non-Kanto starters with Elemental Hyper Beams are easy to get nowadays.
The Mt. Battles are much easier in comparison but tedious. Colosseum and XD's equivalents are Tower and Orre Colosseum in battle mode and about every round of XD's Orre Colosseum but the first respectively.
@@meloelebi1996 I never did the one in battle mode, but the ones in story mode. Well, it was easy in Colosseu, but a nightmare in XD.
This is why we use Emulators & Save States.
And here's the thing,everyone wants the Emerald battle frontiee back!
They could've made it more interesting by giving the opponents egg or breedable moves to shake things up, or not limited you to only 3 for everything when there's no pvp involved. Yeah I entirely agree on the frontier, some neat ideas with just frustrating implementation. But it's also why I always ended up packing something that ignores accuracy like swift or some perpetual aoe like sandstorm.
How did a terrible pokemon like Flareon KO a Salamence with a Shadow Ball ?
If my memory serves me right pro poke'mon leagues outright ban moves (and i think items) that effect the accuracy of attacks in the standard rules. Don't blame them, never being able to hit anything makes for a boring affair for both players and spectators.
I never really got into the Battle Frontier. And it's not like I don't get the appeal, but back then and to this very day, I was generally able to get through the main storylines with just understanding type advantages, and then just brute forcing it. Consequently, it's asking a lot out of me to just suddenly need to change the way I play, especially if it's to something I may not be good at. Add to that the low payout of points, and it quickly became something I didn't think was worth the effort
Merry christmas git :D
Pokemon Reborn has a cool Battle Tower mode that actually just starts with fully powered Pokemon from the get-go, and doesn’t actually record your winstreak. Pretty cool
26:35 oh, that fire emblem reference....
I recently found one of these extremely annoying marathons in Crisis Core. The duel of 100 against Shinra guards is extremely tedious, but it's not the final training mission. That honor goes to the battle against *1000* and it's a mess no matter how you look at it.
First of all, let's bring up the elephant in the room: the fight is long, boring and you have to restart from the beginning if you die at any point. In fact, the fight lasts so long that it goes against the design principle of having short missions to compliment the game being on handheld devices, every enemy has the same model instead of having some Shinra machinery/experiments to spice things up and they can use attacks that drop your HP to 1.
As if that weren't bad enough, it shatters my suspension of disbelief. There's the usual part of doing Shinra alligned quests while you're supposed to be ditching them to the point of ghosting your former friend, but then there's how Zack dies according to this game. Given the sheer number of feats Zack can do while being controlled by the player, I imagine the team thought having him be gunned down by three grunts would be a little odd. It got changed to him facing an entire batallion until those three guys were the last remaining to show that, while Zack is powerful, he doesn't exactly have the stamina to take on an army and keep going. However, given I had done the 1000 man quest just before fighting Genesis, I ended up calling hax at that unwinnable battle.
At 25:22 i wa shit with sudden war flashbacks. Gen 4 fog sucks ass.
I think the idea of the facilities is good but win streaks were awful. I think people want the good things back without the bad things. Simply rewarding for victories with difficulty levels that are unlocked would suffice that way people can challenge themselves with weaker teams and Pokémon. Ideally no use of luck nonsense either, if the player wants to then fine but the ai doing it just puts the game on a luck timer.
Honestly for all it’s flaws I miss the frontier and I currently play gen 6 triple battles because I like using 6 Pokémon. I really hate playing online and I hate how the single player experience has suffered for it. Even in casual this generations meta is incredibly repetitive and dull and certain Pokémon and items are so dominant it’s very hard to use anything outside of them and you have to spend so many resources accounting for them. Gholdengo is especially disgusting.
The AI will at least use most fully evolved Pokémon back in the stadium days and to a lesser degree Pokémon battle revolution. Online play 95% of the time is seeing the same Pokémon over and over and over. Boring.
That's why I would love to see a new Pokemon Stadium/Colosseum game to give a variety of opponents to face. Honestly, if I could the same experience of online games with single player mode, then I'd never play against online opponents. I must be turning into Cyrus because I prefer to play with machines over people.
@@whoisthisgit Ironically I think people are more machine like then machines or at least less developed machines. At least machines are generally designed to use different things with varying effectiveness. Most people want to win at all costs so copy paste the best things and repeat them like a machine that only presses one button.
@@Peachrocks5 And thus, why having good AI opponents can go a long way. It can be hard to enjoy "fun" loadouts if they universally struggle against what the community has divined to be the "best" loadouts. Some people just want to run *whatever,* and AI opponents are the most compatible with that playstyle, since they can be programmed to play in similar ways. If the AI fails to make the "run silly things and make them work somehow" playstyle satisfying, you're out of luck, because you're not making silly things work in an environment that's dominated by the "run what gives the best results" playstyle (i.e. online multiplayer in virtually every game that has it).
I'm one of the players who got sad that battle frontier wasn't included in the remake. Maybe it was for the best
Ah yes, choosing between becoming a sure-hit-casual or glorious weather-team-enjoyer
I personally would prefer it if RNG was alot better handled and they brought this back. Believe you me, I have encountered some of the worst RNG BS when playing through this to achieve my ambition of getting all the Gold Frontier symbols. Ever had an opponent with a focus band that kicked in FOUR times in a row?! How about a Quick Claw doing it the exact same amount of times?! Another kicker was when I was on my 10th challenge in the Battle dome and aiming to take my very first gold frontier symbol. I won the first round and got on the quarterfinals where my opponent was a Fisherman with a Wailord. The reason I don't know what his second Pokemon was is because his Wailord killed both my Sceptile and my Swampert with not only Fissure hitting twice in a row, but also it's quick claw kicking in on the same turns! I even remember fighting a staller Dusclops that made me tear the top screen of a worn and barely functioning DS off. It used Double Team, Toxic, Protect, and Confuse Ray, as well as holding a leftovers to undo any damage I did. Yeah, that fucker left such an impression on me I remember just about every move it had (except Confuse Ray, had to look at Bulbapedia for that)
But I was extremely happy to have made it through and finally beaten the BS a few years back.
I kinda hated the Battle Frontier too, though I did play it some and have fond memories of using it to clone things.
I think the Battle Pike was the only one I ever got a symbol on.
Same. It's a shame because I love the designs and music but I hate to pull off consecutive wins just to fight someone who can easily get me to start all over. And the rewards aren't worth getting given the payment of these facilities. They're good but you have to do too much work than expected.
The Battle Pike is the easiest one to get a symbol on because it requires the least amount of runs to reach the Frontier Brain, plus overall it takes the least amount of time to go through. So it's completely understandable it'd be the only one you'd get a symbol on.
When I use Battle Tower I used Latias (Yes, I choose the female one) and even in Battle Factory, even if you choose an good Pokemon, didn't help if he have an bad moves
Battle pyramid kind of reminds me of a roguelite
When the Stadium games come out on Switch next year, you should make a Part 2 on them.
There's a speedrunner (from Australia) named Werster who is the current greatest Pokemon player in the world. He is the only runner of the "Complete The Game" categories in both Stadiums 1 and 2, which are currently 20 hours long at their fastest (they used to be hours longer than that) and towards the end, have battles designed to be nearly impossible without Pokemon you've trained yourself in other games- and that's in a category where you're only allowed to use Rentals. The same rules as Mt. Battle apply, though there are only as much as 8 battles for each part of the game before the next starting point, and you start with no continues. It was only recently discovered how you could set up a glitch for unlimited continues, and that requires winning at least one battle without losing a Pokemon to get at least one Continue from it, then doing this slightly complicated sequence of events where you suspend, reset, and pick options in a specific way to set up the glitch. By the way, Rentals can't be trained or customized, only offering you pre-made teams you have to figure out yourself. The current WR in both games beats the difficulty climaxes on the first try, and yet Werster keeps running them.
Sounds like a really big double Edged sword... but it's mostly edged badly towards you... ouch.
14:05 thats the laziest shit ive ever seen in pokemon lmaooo
I finished the entire Battle Frontier except for the Factory. Not being able to use my own Pokemon combined with the awful movesets of the rentals basically just made it all a crapshoot., and I was not gonna just roll the dice until I got lucky.
Sure, the rest of the facilities have some lucky elements too, but you could at least use the best Pokemon to try and slide things in your favor.
Finishing both battle frontiers without RNG abuse, both factories are absolutely brutal for gold, although gen 4's is considerably worse. Having better sets than 3's actually works against you in the long run.
I want to make a Kazuya joke for Kruger Pokemon Battle Revolution but I dont know what to say
An idea that I came up with to account for your critique is to have a checkpoint system.
My idea would be to have the particular Pokemon on the team be recognized instead of the trainer's combo, as this puts a bit of a limiter on the checkpoint. If you want to introduce new Pokemon, you have to 'prove' that/those Pokemon is/are able to compete at that level. Using *some* Pokemon that have already hit one of the checkpoints could instead give you a headstart based on the checkpoint they're affiliated with and how many of those Pokemon you're using on the 'new' team.
Nowdays I mostly like th Battle frontier for it's environnement designs.
21:50
I know what you mean. After playing Pokemon Violet, Sonic Frontiers looks like a masterpiece to me.
I remember Courtyard Colosseum quite vividly, a few years ago on a very hot summer day in 2020 i believe, I was playing PBR in my sister's room upstairs (basement was getting remodeled so the wii u had to be moved). I needed something to do, so I grabbed my Pokemon Pearl game and got to work since I hadn't really played PBR for several years. I never remember trying Courtyard prior so I gave it a shot. Boy it was a loooooooooooooooooooong day. I spent, 11 HOURS STRAIGHT IN THE COLOSSEUM AND LOST AT ROUND 97. Because half my team was dead/low hp, and I hit the "Do Nothing" space by accident since I was shaking so much due to being so nervous. My team comp was far from the best (I think it was Rayquaza, Groudon, Flygon, Swampert, Deoxys Attack and Giratina) {I took the first four since they were from my pokemon emerald game and I was very attached to them} but my peanut brain never used a Deoxys before.
I just remember seeing the opponent have the Lati duo and i just couldn't land a hit in the fog. As Rayquaza was my Defogger, along with Groudon.
I sat there defeated, and I haven't gone back since.
One day...I'll have my revenge. :"")
:(
I found a shiny jolteon in the battle pike, to add insult to injury it was a 1/8 female to boot
Maybe the omission from ORAS isn’t so bad after all
Emerald's facilities were made as an end game time sink, unfortunately these days the same system has no respect for the player's time. From my own experience they should've used the Silver and Gold medal win streaks as checkpoints you can unlock as the teams usually reach their high points at these.