I watched that grand finals between Cosmos and Tea, and yeah, Cosmos looked very lost while Tea just seemed incredibly confident the whole time. I wonder if Tea realized that Cosmos was trying to bait him into picking kazuya by choosing final destination, I certainly didn't.
I think Tea knows he's baitin the Kazuya, cus Cosmos' INCREDIBLE at the kazuya matchup. But I think Tea just went along with it, hoping to win with Kazuya so he could do the pose lol
I think your opinion on players not being prepared for trappers is so true. Snake on Ultimate's release was hilarious to watch when matched up against any Non-Brawl vets.
For another vid about why no one plays, I've got an idea for who: the Pits. The misconception as to why they're bad is because they lack killpower, but that's honestly not the case. In reality, the real reason is because they lack functional attacks(most egregiously, nair), have horrible air mobility(slow air speed and multiple, but low, jumps), a vulnerable straightforward up b, and an egregiously mismatched side B for an otherwise supposed to be nimble char. Honestly, for fixes, make his attacks function, first and foremost, but give him air speed, and replace his multiple jumps(which would be even better since he canonically can't fly) with a single bigger midair jump, and lastly, give him a different burst option side b that's weaker but quicker. Those changes would definitely turn him into an actual char, and a decent one at that. But one can only dream.
@@sharifbrown3567 What a weird way of saying low tier. Sorry, but Pit just doesn't fit Ultimate's pace and lots of his moves just don't connect (looking at you, up Air). He's just too average of a character.
Pit is just merely average and the problem is that when you have a game with characters that can do 60 in a single interaction or some X factor to make it up, Pit falls behind hard. This isnt related but I almost never fear a Pit whenever I'm facing them because I already know what they wanna do and I just body them
I'm a Dark Pit main (there's literally dozens of us!!) and I agree with your assessment of my boy. I choose to play him because he's quite hard to edge guard, has easy kill confirms (fast fall nair into down/up smash and Up tilt to up air), and I believe his down B is pretty close to being broken. I have survived the stupidest scenarios due to this block/reflect/counter. Air drifting while using down b is also quite useful in avoiding options from one's opponent. Anywho, I love Dark Pit. Sniping with his arrows is satisfying, there's a zero death combo if the opponent DI is that of an idiot, conditioning into reading air dodges out of up tilt and down tilt is also very enjoyable to pull off. All of that plus his dumb recovery (yeah it's exploitable but he's got i frames and 4 freaking jumps) and super armour side b (yeah I fully agree it's slow as heck which limits its utility greatly) makes for my favourite character in the game.
Thats actually such a fun idea. I mean really! EVERYBODY has a couple of rounds, where you want to turn of the brain and Just use abnoxius and fun to use moves. Charizard Flare Blitz, Samus Charge Shot, Hero Menu, Joker/Wolf Bair are easy Candidates out of my immidiate thought
I’m very glad to see a video on my favorite archetype in the game. I have what my friends call a “Chess mind” so I’m very good at developing traps for my opponent and the worst possible thing you could do is to give me any amount of breathing room to figure something out.
Trappers are actually some of my favorite characters to watch because I love seeing all these big brain plays in action, and I like seeing the opponents get psyched out into doing a bad option. Though, like you said, they are probably the biggest matchup checks in the entire game. (Snake and Steve come to mind) I think for the next archetype, I suggest all-rounders like Pit, Mario, and Lucina and why they are inherently unpopular at higher levels compared to rushdown, trappers, and zoners.
The episode of why no one plays I wanna see the most is on Link. He has so many tools and open for expression that I feel he should be way more popular than he is now
I agree. I main Link and Zelda due to how much fun they can be to trap opponents with. And they both have enough tools to be pretty good in the right hands. They should both be more popular than they are.
I'd say it's just because he has a very high skill ceiling and you need to put in work to get results. Why bother with all the bomb tech and stuff when you can simply pick Roy and mash jab for a kill confirm at 80?
Link should be top tier Out of shield Range, projectiles Offstage, bomb recovery Scoops, nair broken Grab combo Footstools Bomb traps, force you to approach Strong hits, heavy His own shield blocks projectiles Bomb soaks up projectile hits
Reasons why no one plays Link (from a Link main): 1. Slow frame data, slow mobility, slow startups, slow running speed, high-risk and high committal moves, overall this character is slow. 2. Bomb recoveries can be punished and without bomb, Link's recovery is bad and exploitable. 3. It's difficult to mix up the reliance on bomb, Link player can't over-rely on bombs and projectiles nor can they remove completely out of equation. It's difficult to find that balance on when to use projectiles/bombs and when not to. 4. Link is heavy and while that does allow him to live longer, it also makes him extremely susceptible to being combo food. 5. Link is not a good melee player up close, he'll get eaten alive against players that excel up close and because he has no reliable get-off-me tool, he's basically a sitting duck. This character's disadvantage state is abysmally bad. 6. No burst options or "when in doubt do this." I guess his nair can be considered the latter and yes, while nair is broken, one move can only do so much. All of Link's other tools has to compliment his strong sides, but sadly, they don't. 7. Link was barely touched in the patches with the exception of the final patch, which didn't really address any of his problems. 8. There are better "trapper" characters out there with better trapping tools, projectiles, melee options, recovery, etc (Snake, Samus, Pac-Man) Ex: Before he was banned, Salem dropped Link for Snake. It wasn't because he didn't think Link was good, he does think he's good, the thing is Snake is better. 9. DLC characters: No, I'm not saying the DLC characters destroy Link or anything, some do, but DLC adds a lot more characters to the roster. With over 80+ characters in the roster, there's bound to be a character that's slept on and unfortunately, Link is one of them. 10. Young Link. Link gets overshadowed by his younger counterpart because Yink has better frame data, he's short and nimble and runs faster, he has better combo game, he has better spammable projectiles that can mentally annoy opponents, he has better representation and better recent results to show for it. As if that's not bad enough, there's also Toon Link. He's not as good as the two Links but when there are three Links in one game, it doesn't do the regular Link much good. Because Link was redesigned in Smash Ultimate for his BOTW look, a lot of former Link mains in Sm4sh migrated to Young Link because his gameplay is much more akin to Sm4sh Link's playstyle. Even many of the current Link players I've talked to in the Link Discord said they prefer Sm4sh Link over BOTW Link even though the latter is consider "better." I guess Twilight Princess Link is just a more likeable character than BOTW Link. Who knows.
This video is very informative. The whole thing about Ultimate requiring all of your mental energy is something I subconsciously knew but never actually thought about before... seems playing Smash isn't a good stress reliever like I initially thought.
Robin, Zelda and duck hunt are the characters who I consider the most fun to watch. Seeing them play is almost like watching a puzzle unfold before my eyes and it's wildly entertaining
I went to my first small local tournament about a year ago and while I got knocked very early, I stayed to watch and root for the Zelda player. Very fun to watch
@@tserulean4952 optimal Zelda is very entertaining to watch imo. Setups using phantom and UpB are incredibly impressive. I think people tend to underestimate Zelda because of her near nonexistent pressure without phantom. I find that jab and dash attack are always super quick and make really good quick punishment moves. I only wish nair was more consistent since it seems like I can hardly ever use it and get the full move. I'd love to talk more about Zelda lol
@@jirehtheprovider but Plant has elements that he can leave up that are autonomous from him, namely poison cloud. Once it's out there it stays there for several seconds. It's a major set-up tool.
@@MandalorianRaider fair point. I guess I was thinking more of it's Spikeball that it spits out. like, besides the poison cloud and spikeball, what are it's other trapper centric moves? can the stretching bite moves count too I assume that in the author's view, they need at least 3 trapper moves of sorts.
I think that an interesting trapper-esque character is Mii Gunner. While not a pure trapper by your definition, they definitely are a mix between a traditional zoner & trapper, particularly with their down b bombs, which create pressure both on stage and on ledge, and are one of their most important tools for ledgetrapping and playing neutral. It´s a potentially very distracting tool that can lead to either follow-ups or to entering disadvantagr if you´re hit by it, and at some high percents can even kill. The bombs are one of the moves that round out Gunner´s whole kit, with I´d say the missiles. I´ve been playing Gunner for a year or so now, and the bombs are probably my personal favourite & most interesting tool in their whole kit, and it adds a whole new dimension to how Gunner plays.
I’ve mained adult Link since Melee and body every friend and local I come across. Thank you for explaining it so well. I’ve always told people “my strategy is to tilt my opponent until I win”.
The man is right. I tried to beat him for years. Trained like mad and watched hundred of videos on tech and strategy. Gave up a large portion of 2 years with he only goal of beating this guy and never could. He is a master at trapping so I was always on the defensive and making minor mistakes all the time. 😢😂
Trappers have always been the hardest for me to fight. Snake and Diddy Kong especially. Like you said having to split your attention to multiple points of the stage,and in Snakes case, remember the timing for the explosions.
trappers create stage hazards , they force you to play their game , you get caught in packman's water he's comboing from there, you for get about c4 snake will lead you into it , Steve legit just plays map maker in the middle of a match , their strength is creativity and mind games and they have infinite options if you let them set up right
I actually would consider King Dedede as a trapper, as while Gordo is pretty much his main focus, not only is Gordo itself a very versatile projectile that can trap opponents to have to either maneuver around it or hit it, but King Dedede has other moves that would only work if his kit was made to trap people and bait them into going to where he wants them to go. You don't have moves like his Down B and dash attack, and have them do nothing but look goofy. If a King Dedede is using dash attack, it means he has you right where he wants you in order to use it.
Saw Link in the thumbnail and was a bit dissapointed to not see any clips of top Link players showing off his kit to the best of its abilities in tourneys. Feel like he's one of the more underrated characters on the smash roster. But a good video in general covering the one group of characters that i feel people dont talk about often. As well as the value that patience has in Comp. Smash.
Most people when they play against most characters: "What do I do... Ah, I can use this attack to punish this approach!" Most people when playing against a good trapper character: "What do I do... *What do I doooo...* "
I am a proud Dedede main, and I love his ledgetrap potential. It hurts to see all the characters people said were bad rise to the top while Dedede has too many weaknessess to follow.
I would love to see a video on the "why nobody plays" series about lucario. Because, at this moment, I think they are the least mained character in the game lol. It would be fun to hear about the play style and history that lead up to it :)
@@vick7868 somehow Lucario does have a tail hitbox even though he uses it in absolutely none of his moves. Also, as somebody who plays Mewtwo secondary, I've been spiked by a DK fair that didn't even cross the ledge, so I know the pain you are talking about.
@@Bubby021 i see... I just looked it up and realized my dumbass forgot Lucario had a tail. I will take the L on that one. Also Mewtwo getting spiked off just the tail is funny to watch but so painful to have happen to you.
There is the fact that he is possibly one of the worst designed characters in the game and lacks prettymuch any traditional combos so you HAVE to rely on Aura Sphere charge & wavebounce bs to get much of anything done. I used to secondary Lucario btw
I would like to see why no one plays Isabelle and why is that the case. For this video, I see myself as a trapper due to my high pressure game, focus on psychological mind games to throw my opponent off for a single second, and I do have the tools to make them ignore most of them once they start to adapt. Not only that, but as a trapper, I focus more on Japanese gameplay instead of NA/EU gameplay, which is aggression. The idea of a trapper is to stay focus and patient while showing no emotions at all. One sign of emotional distress is when things falls apart. It's why I'm consider a PR player in my region using Isabelle alone. I can somewhat say the same for Joker, but that's a whole different gameplay for him.
I think they’re good, but there’s a limit on whether they’re healthy. I think Steve is so hated because he’s a trapper with amazing frame data and good moves, who is extremely passive. More active seeming trappers are less hated. It’s one thing for a snake to set up a all of explosives and mines and pressure you into making a mistake by actually putting pressure on you. Steve is a trapper who can pressure you into making a mistake by sitting in a corner and building a wall, and he’s strongest when you try to stop him from doing so.
Trappers as its own video, huh? Trappers close off your options and mentally were you down by doing the same moves over and over, yet still winning long-range exchanges most of the time. They often have lots of mind-games and tricks that make you mad, as well as their onslaught of projectiles. Since their playstyle is walling off your opponent, it takes a lot of skill to play them at a top level without leaving yourself wide open. As an Isabelle main day 1, I have gotten used to beating lots of players who love holding forward, and edgeguarding against bad recoveries. But once I run into a character who is more patient, or someone who is faster than her, I tend to fall apart. One time a week ago, I was playing against a Link who played aggressively, and I beat him easily. But the next game, he camped me back, using ONLY ARROWS! We were playing on FD so I couldn't get above him, and as ironic as it is to admit, I was actually losing MENTAL STABILITY playing him. Though maybe that's because it was 1 AM. Still, just goes to show that Trappers are an incredibly underrated archetype.
@@DrunkPanda239 Yes. My definition of a trapper is someone who can set up, a projectile explosive, or really any object somewhere. Pac Man, Villager, Isabelle, Snake, Duck Hunt, and to an extent, even Link.
As a duck hunt main, i love controller the stage with can and manipulating the can to do pretty wacky stuff. Playing with the can is like playing as two characters and can be in two places at once. Theres also the fact that the camera will always follow the can so i can mess with the camera and distract my opponent.
I think PiranhaPlant is a trapper. He doesn’t have many good up close options but pressures ledge very well, and has multiple options for it. He can also punish you for making mistakes
I can not tell you how many times when i am facing someone as link and they are to afraid to approach me just because i am standing behind remote bomb only for them to get hit by bombarang flying at them from behind or they just get hit with forward air on leadge and die
Great analyzing video. I've been enjoying your channel on smash a lot. I like playing trappers in fighting games. Neutral is heavy in Smash so I can understand players getting frustrated, because they want to rush in and push buttons.
Some players spend a lot of time getting their combos down. Then to be zoned out or stuck in neutral and not given the chance to use what you've been working on is a let down.
another amazingly-explained & astonishingly-easy-to-sit-all-the-way-thru-despite-being-in-bed-&-tired-without-losing-focus-actually...loved the differentiation shown between zoning & trapping using Samus as an example btw!
My favorite trap In the game is as pac-man, charge up a key then drop a hydrant on either far side of the stage. Jump offstage on the side of the hydrant and throw they key at it. It’s awesome it’s two pretty powerful attacks that fly across the entire stage with staggered speed and position.
As someone who loves playing Link and sometimes Robin, trappers are a very big threat to anyone unprepared, but there are some characters with anti-trapper tools that can handle them. Mewtwo for example does well vs trappers due to his mix of good range, power, damage racking and having a reflector, a hard to gimp recovery and good projectile in one kit. His downfall is low weight and large hurtbox but that's mitigated with player skill. Mewtwo's speed in both air and ground make him able to weave around trapper gimmicks better than many characters. I consider mewtwo a glass cannon. Explosive in the right hands but if they mess up they can pay the price immediately.
Vars, just wanted to say that I love your channel, as well as the Genshin one! Video essays are some of my favorite media, much more so when my favorite games are involved!
I mean… like yes steve isn’t so good that there isn’t counterplay, but it’s still silly to act like the only reason steve did so well is because people weren’t used to his playstyle, no. Did that contribute to it? Absolutely, but steve is also an objectively overtuned character that simply punishes you for failure much easier than you can punish him for failure.
Sometimes I look at Link and think to myself why this character no longer has any top player rep. That character has so much bullshit and can out trap so much of the new meta threats.
@@aronspiker72 that's true, the problem with Link (adult version) is that there's actually so many ways to play him and there's no clear "optimal" play style for him. He has crazy combos (that's incredibly difficult to pull off), his zoning game is insane, his boxing tools are not bad and has enough range with his sword to be able to at least wall out some stubby characters.
And he has so much power for a zoner, I like to use him as a fighter because no one expects that shit, his Nair, Fair, Tilts and UpB OoS are really good tools
something about this video clicked when I realized trappers are like Spy TF2. except that there's only one Spy class instead of like 15, so it's feasible to memorize all his tricks and turn him into the worst class in TF2.
Would Sonic make for an episode of Why No One Plays or Why Everyone Plays? I feel like nobody in my locals plays Sonic, but lots of top players play him.
I’m not sure. Trappers may make a slight uproar but once people figure out what to do I think that the current top tiers will be able to take them pretty easily. I main Link, he may not be as a direct case of a trapper as someone like the belmonts or snake but his bomb does apply a lot of pressure, particularly offstage. Link is slow though, characters like fox are horrible for link because they can afford to just stay in his face the entire time. Link isn’t great under pressure and it’s pretty similar for a lot of the characters you listed. We might have one or two good out of shield options but we don’t have the frame data or speed to get away easily. Once people figure out how to apply consistent, constant pressure in return to trappers it’s game over.
Trappers specialize in keeping that pressure off them, and the ones that are really good have only risen in the meta. Snake and Pac-Man are two such examples.
I'm a snake main and I've beaten friends who were clearly better at the game than me simply by wearing them down over the match They may even have been a stock ahead, but having to constantly focus on my grenades and C4 while trying to dodge my Nikita missiles off stage is clearly a mentally taxing experience and I capitalize on their mistakes
I fought a crazy pacman and snake a few days ago it's a struggle for some character's or players getting in but once you fine a crack in their trap game they tend to panic or have an option b incase their main go to plan fails
When I grind onlines, especially recently, I’ve gone falco a lot. And going up against trappers I’ll usually lose my first two stocks quickly. But if I can get a read on trappers, it can be cake. I’ve reverse 3stocked Young Link and PAC-Man because some players have a hard time mixing up. I’m sure as I go against higher level players this outcome will be reduced, but really it’s not much different from fighting anyone
What if we had a voice chat that could sound like the characters we played as. Imagine the possible immersion you could gain doing that. So instead of ness saying "okay" you say "spammer" but on the voice chat it sounds like ness saying "spammer" with no delay or restrictions. That simple tweak may be absolutely game changing for the online gaming industry
Johan: Hey Ayanokoji, can you take Trap to another level? Ayanokoji: No, you'd persuade Astolfo jump off the Ledge. Johan: My forte makes Astolfo commit Ledge Trap.
I love you’re videos, but with the Archetype videos would you mind including a list of all the characters you feel fall into the archetype? Edit: or are the ones you directly covered the only ones you consider as true trappers, because I would think Link and Plant would fall heavily into this category.
I would classify Plant into the "janky low tier" archetype along w/ DDD, Lucario, & Banjo where it's not clear what they're actually intended to do, but they are just really bad.
I dont think so, I think even when fighting a sword character, the first time you fight it, you might would be confused on how to get past of their sword. so it is the same I think, even in my point of view, it is harder on how to learn to get past on a sword skill because it needs a lot of skill
It's really just knowing spacing and threat ranges. Zoners can pull off a shitload of stuff from many different ranges so they're usually less predictable.
You know the ultimate’s earlymeta threats ken, zss, inkling, and lucina have all not be doing well all thanks buffs nerfs and meta changes it really shows how much people realize that a mostly Rushdown isn’t has effective any that’s why characters like Min Min and young link more popular now
On one hand it is nice to freshen up the game and include mechanics we've never seen before, but on the other hand it's very lame to have characters only be strong because the opponent doesn't know how to fight them. Matchup knowledge should be important yes, but it shouldn't define an entire character/group of characters
I consider him to be in the "low tier" archetype as his design doesn't seem to be built around an actual play style but rather cramming as many references as possible but with the moves themselves being incredibly weak.
Yeah Snake is very much in the category of Frustrating Characters to fight. He's got so many ludacris options in his kit that people completely despise: -Frame 1 combo breaking grenades with a huge hitbox and tons of flexible use since he can pull out 2 -Up-Tilt with Smash levels of power -A Dash Attack with intangibility similar to Palu's -An Up-Smash that does all the Ledge Trapping for him -An Side-B that does all the edge guarding for him -Frame 3 Dair OoS that's powerful -etc (trust me, there's plenty more) Along with a shockingly good close range game and a disadvantage for character who doesn't struggle with his projectile heavy neutral, and yet I rarely see anyone complain about him, which for this community who can't seem to stand Rob, Pacman or Steve, all whom are pretty comparable is eyebrow-raising. I guess people just forgot about him.
His own moves are laggy and very punishable, his mobility is bad, and his recovery is slow and exploitable, he's got some BS but he isn't a mary sue fighter like steve, rob, or mythra
I think you applied the name "trapper" to a "set up character". Set up characters are characters who have projectiles that allow them to either combo, mix up or like you said trap. A non Smash example would be Cyrax from Mortal Kombat who's gameplay is dependent on his bombs to mess up the opponent. Just giving my 2 cents if that was okay. I wouldn't call Zelda a trapper but to each their own.
Basically, trappers are dangerous because opponents need a shift in mindset. Players need to split their attention instead of focusing solely on the opponent.
@@Sh1v3rIZAE I love them because it forces other characters to play anti bitchy, I play duck hunt even tho he falls under trapper I wish he had more of a threat because some characters can somewhat get away with a bitchy passive playstyle, which is why trappers are just as important as rush downs because the characters in the middle spectrum like defensive Mario,wolf,cloud,falco yoshi will just take their spot, they’re overhated but needed.
Finally Smash players can finally know what 'zoners' and 'trappers' are and how they are supposed to be played. Projectile setups aka 'B Button Spammers' for Elite Smashers lol
@@EmperorPenguin1217 it’s kinda ridiculous seeing people hating on projectile spammer characters like links, mega man, or one button moves like incin side b without even thinking about how those moves make up a big part of their big brain setups. They just don’t know stuff about it. Would you expect young link to only use a toothpick to fight without any projectiles at all?
@@corrinfevincenohr Well Incineroar doesn’t have anything “big brain” to speak of, and the problem with young link players is that they spam projectiles aimlessly
@@EmperorPenguin1217 well for incin I meant to say how people often criticize skyjay incin as just Side B only character But yeah for projectile zoners, there’s a huge different between using it as setups or just throwing out projectiles randomly
I watched that grand finals between Cosmos and Tea, and yeah, Cosmos looked very lost while Tea just seemed incredibly confident the whole time. I wonder if Tea realized that Cosmos was trying to bait him into picking kazuya by choosing final destination, I certainly didn't.
I think Tea knows he's baitin the Kazuya, cus Cosmos' INCREDIBLE at the kazuya matchup.
But I think Tea just went along with it, hoping to win with Kazuya so he could do the pose lol
@@glizycor4748 ii8i8i8iiiiiiii8uiiiuiiii8iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii8iiui8i8ii8i8iiii8uuuuhuuh
Yes, he looked very lost. Something I'm definitely *_NOT_* very familiar with when playing Smash!.......
I think your opinion on players not being prepared for trappers is so true. Snake on Ultimate's release was hilarious to watch when matched up against any Non-Brawl vets.
For another vid about why no one plays, I've got an idea for who: the Pits. The misconception as to why they're bad is because they lack killpower, but that's honestly not the case. In reality, the real reason is because they lack functional attacks(most egregiously, nair), have horrible air mobility(slow air speed and multiple, but low, jumps), a vulnerable straightforward up b, and an egregiously mismatched side B for an otherwise supposed to be nimble char.
Honestly, for fixes, make his attacks function, first and foremost, but give him air speed, and replace his multiple jumps(which would be even better since he canonically can't fly) with a single bigger midair jump, and lastly, give him a different burst option side b that's weaker but quicker. Those changes would definitely turn him into an actual char, and a decent one at that. But one can only dream.
He's a high tier dude, don't underrate them.
@@sharifbrown3567 What a weird way of saying low tier. Sorry, but Pit just doesn't fit Ultimate's pace and lots of his moves just don't connect (looking at you, up Air). He's just too average of a character.
@@sharifbrown3567 delusional
Pit is just merely average and the problem is that when you have a game with characters that can do 60 in a single interaction or some X factor to make it up, Pit falls behind hard. This isnt related but I almost never fear a Pit whenever I'm facing them because I already know what they wanna do and I just body them
I'm a Dark Pit main (there's literally dozens of us!!) and I agree with your assessment of my boy. I choose to play him because he's quite hard to edge guard, has easy kill confirms (fast fall nair into down/up smash and Up tilt to up air), and I believe his down B is pretty close to being broken. I have survived the stupidest scenarios due to this block/reflect/counter. Air drifting while using down b is also quite useful in avoiding options from one's opponent.
Anywho, I love Dark Pit. Sniping with his arrows is satisfying, there's a zero death combo if the opponent DI is that of an idiot, conditioning into reading air dodges out of up tilt and down tilt is also very enjoyable to pull off. All of that plus his dumb recovery (yeah it's exploitable but he's got i frames and 4 freaking jumps) and super armour side b (yeah I fully agree it's slow as heck which limits its utility greatly) makes for my favourite character in the game.
Video Idea: Most Fun to Spam Characters in Smash Ultimate
PK Fire, Pk FiRe, PK FIRE, pk fire=ok🤣
Swatting ghosts with Roy is so much fun!
Thats actually such a fun idea. I mean really! EVERYBODY has a couple of rounds, where you want to turn of the brain and Just use abnoxius and fun to use moves. Charizard Flare Blitz, Samus Charge Shot, Hero Menu, Joker/Wolf Bair are easy Candidates out of my immidiate thought
Down throw->up air with doc
Down throw->dash attack with wolf
It all I know🤧
I may be in the minority
But spamming Pound on someone who doesn’t counterplay it is hilarious
I’m very glad to see a video on my favorite archetype in the game. I have what my friends call a “Chess mind” so I’m very good at developing traps for my opponent and the worst possible thing you could do is to give me any amount of breathing room to figure something out.
I agree trappers are super fun. I like playing them in almost every fighting game.
Trappers are actually some of my favorite characters to watch because I love seeing all these big brain plays in action, and I like seeing the opponents get psyched out into doing a bad option. Though, like you said, they are probably the biggest matchup checks in the entire game. (Snake and Steve come to mind)
I think for the next archetype, I suggest all-rounders like Pit, Mario, and Lucina and why they are inherently unpopular at higher levels compared to rushdown, trappers, and zoners.
Your channel is becoming one of my favorites, good script, nice audio quality and well paced.
The episode of why no one plays I wanna see the most is on Link. He has so many tools and open for expression that I feel he should be way more popular than he is now
I agree. I main Link and Zelda due to how much fun they can be to trap opponents with. And they both have enough tools to be pretty good in the right hands. They should both be more popular than they are.
I'd say it's just because he has a very high skill ceiling and you need to put in work to get results. Why bother with all the bomb tech and stuff when you can simply pick Roy and mash jab for a kill confirm at 80?
@@Squishy-Balls Yeah Pac-Man is one of the highest skill ceiling characters in the game, possibly the highest. Not sure why you bring him up though?
Link should be top tier
Out of shield
Range, projectiles
Offstage, bomb recovery
Scoops, nair broken
Grab combo
Footstools
Bomb traps, force you to approach
Strong hits, heavy
His own shield blocks projectiles
Bomb soaks up projectile hits
Reasons why no one plays Link (from a Link main):
1. Slow frame data, slow mobility, slow startups, slow running speed, high-risk and high committal moves, overall this character is slow.
2. Bomb recoveries can be punished and without bomb, Link's recovery is bad and exploitable.
3. It's difficult to mix up the reliance on bomb, Link player can't over-rely on bombs and projectiles nor can they remove completely out of equation. It's difficult to find that balance on when to use projectiles/bombs and when not to.
4. Link is heavy and while that does allow him to live longer, it also makes him extremely susceptible to being combo food.
5. Link is not a good melee player up close, he'll get eaten alive against players that excel up close and because he has no reliable get-off-me tool, he's basically a sitting duck. This character's disadvantage state is abysmally bad.
6. No burst options or "when in doubt do this." I guess his nair can be considered the latter and yes, while nair is broken, one move can only do so much. All of Link's other tools has to compliment his strong sides, but sadly, they don't.
7. Link was barely touched in the patches with the exception of the final patch, which didn't really address any of his problems.
8. There are better "trapper" characters out there with better trapping tools, projectiles, melee options, recovery, etc (Snake, Samus, Pac-Man) Ex: Before he was banned, Salem dropped Link for Snake. It wasn't because he didn't think Link was good, he does think he's good, the thing is Snake is better.
9. DLC characters: No, I'm not saying the DLC characters destroy Link or anything, some do, but DLC adds a lot more characters to the roster. With over 80+ characters in the roster, there's bound to be a character that's slept on and unfortunately, Link is one of them.
10. Young Link. Link gets overshadowed by his younger counterpart because Yink has better frame data, he's short and nimble and runs faster, he has better combo game, he has better spammable projectiles that can mentally annoy opponents, he has better representation and better recent results to show for it.
As if that's not bad enough, there's also Toon Link. He's not as good as the two Links but when there are three Links in one game, it doesn't do the regular Link much good. Because Link was redesigned in Smash Ultimate for his BOTW look, a lot of former Link mains in Sm4sh migrated to Young Link because his gameplay is much more akin to Sm4sh Link's playstyle.
Even many of the current Link players I've talked to in the Link Discord said they prefer Sm4sh Link over BOTW Link even though the latter is consider "better." I guess Twilight Princess Link is just a more likeable character than BOTW Link. Who knows.
This video is very informative. The whole thing about Ultimate requiring all of your mental energy is something I subconsciously knew but never actually thought about before... seems playing Smash isn't a good stress reliever like I initially thought.
Robin, Zelda and duck hunt are the characters who I consider the most fun to watch. Seeing them play is almost like watching a puzzle unfold before my eyes and it's wildly entertaining
I went to my first small local tournament about a year ago and while I got knocked very early, I stayed to watch and root for the Zelda player. Very fun to watch
I appreicate that so much, I'm a local Zelda player and I always feel like my matches are boring. Hearing that means a lot to me
@@tserulean4952 optimal Zelda is very entertaining to watch imo. Setups using phantom and UpB are incredibly impressive. I think people tend to underestimate Zelda because of her near nonexistent pressure without phantom.
I find that jab and dash attack are always super quick and make really good quick punishment moves. I only wish nair was more consistent since it seems like I can hardly ever use it and get the full move. I'd love to talk more about Zelda lol
@@michaelplaysbass8311 uptilt true combos into nair and you just gotta try and read their DI for it to work.
I feel the same way when i watch Snake though I am biased since I do main Snake.
I can't believe you didn't mention Plant here, ledge trapping is like all he does.
i have a hunch why. It is similar to his description with Samus
@@jirehtheprovider but Plant has elements that he can leave up that are autonomous from him, namely poison cloud. Once it's out there it stays there for several seconds. It's a major set-up tool.
@@MandalorianRaider fair point. I guess I was thinking more of it's Spikeball that it spits out.
like, besides the poison cloud and spikeball, what are it's other trapper centric moves? can the stretching bite moves count too
I assume that in the author's view, they need at least 3 trapper moves of sorts.
The only reason why Plant is usable is because of its neutral B, its crazy
Maybe because he is actual dookie
I think that an interesting trapper-esque character is Mii Gunner. While not a pure trapper by your definition, they definitely are a mix between a traditional zoner & trapper, particularly with their down b bombs, which create pressure both on stage and on ledge, and are one of their most important tools for ledgetrapping and playing neutral. It´s a potentially very distracting tool that can lead to either follow-ups or to entering disadvantagr if you´re hit by it, and at some high percents can even kill. The bombs are one of the moves that round out Gunner´s whole kit, with I´d say the missiles. I´ve been playing Gunner for a year or so now, and the bombs are probably my personal favourite & most interesting tool in their whole kit, and it adds a whole new dimension to how Gunner plays.
I’ve mained adult Link since Melee and body every friend and local I come across. Thank you for explaining it so well. I’ve always told people “my strategy is to tilt my opponent until I win”.
The man is right. I tried to beat him for years. Trained like mad and watched hundred of videos on tech and strategy. Gave up a large portion of 2 years with he only goal of beating this guy and never could. He is a master at trapping so I was always on the defensive and making minor mistakes all the time. 😢😂
I respect you but also I hate you lol
Trappers have always been the hardest for me to fight. Snake and Diddy Kong especially. Like you said having to split your attention to multiple points of the stage,and in Snakes case, remember the timing for the explosions.
I’m a link main. I absolutely love free form “bomb poetry” as I call it. The creative ways you can use the bomb feel limitless.
trappers create stage hazards , they force you to play their game , you get caught in packman's water he's comboing from there, you for get about c4 snake will lead you into it , Steve legit just plays map maker in the middle of a match , their strength is creativity and mind games and they have infinite options if you let them set up right
I cannot wait for that villager video, I feel like nobody ever talks about my main. I'm saving my subscribe for that day great work keep it up man.
“A trapper can be a zoner, but a zoner can’t be a trapper”
I actually would consider King Dedede as a trapper, as while Gordo is pretty much his main focus, not only is Gordo itself a very versatile projectile that can trap opponents to have to either maneuver around it or hit it, but King Dedede has other moves that would only work if his kit was made to trap people and bait them into going to where he wants them to go. You don't have moves like his Down B and dash attack, and have them do nothing but look goofy. If a King Dedede is using dash attack, it means he has you right where he wants you in order to use it.
Can you do a “why no one plays duck hunt” he hasn’t seen much competitive use recently and I don’t really know why
Saw Link in the thumbnail and was a bit dissapointed to not see any clips of top Link players showing off his kit to the best of its abilities in tourneys. Feel like he's one of the more underrated characters on the smash roster. But a good video in general covering the one group of characters that i feel people dont talk about often. As well as the value that patience has in Comp. Smash.
Duck hunt doesn’t get enough love on this channel, there i said it
What's that stage at 3:37 with all the hot air balloons? The buildings look like Delfino but I've never seen the hot air balloons before.
I think it’s modded
Most people when they play against most characters: "What do I do... Ah, I can use this attack to punish this approach!"
Most people when playing against a good trapper character: "What do I do... *What do I doooo...* "
I am a proud Dedede main, and I love his ledgetrap potential. It hurts to see all the characters people said were bad rise to the top while Dedede has too many weaknessess to follow.
This video really encompasses why I love trap characters so much, even though in practice they're really difficult to make work.
I would love to see a video on the "why nobody plays" series about lucario. Because, at this moment, I think they are the least mained character in the game lol. It would be fun to hear about the play style and history that lead up to it :)
They better bring up Lucario’s egregious tail hit box (I know it’s far from Lucario’s only problem).
@@Bubby021 Surely you mean Mewtwo. That's a common complaint with Mewtwo and Lucario doesn't even have a tail.
@@vick7868 somehow Lucario does have a tail hitbox even though he uses it in absolutely none of his moves. Also, as somebody who plays Mewtwo secondary, I've been spiked by a DK fair that didn't even cross the ledge, so I know the pain you are talking about.
@@Bubby021 i see... I just looked it up and realized my dumbass forgot Lucario had a tail. I will take the L on that one.
Also Mewtwo getting spiked off just the tail is funny to watch but so painful to have happen to you.
There is the fact that he is possibly one of the worst designed characters in the game and lacks prettymuch any traditional combos so you HAVE to rely on Aura Sphere charge & wavebounce bs to get much of anything done.
I used to secondary Lucario btw
I love the subtle advertisement of ur league channel's videos at the minute mark that's pretty smooth
I would like to see why no one plays Isabelle and why is that the case. For this video, I see myself as a trapper due to my high pressure game, focus on psychological mind games to throw my opponent off for a single second, and I do have the tools to make them ignore most of them once they start to adapt. Not only that, but as a trapper, I focus more on Japanese gameplay instead of NA/EU gameplay, which is aggression. The idea of a trapper is to stay focus and patient while showing no emotions at all. One sign of emotional distress is when things falls apart. It's why I'm consider a PR player in my region using Isabelle alone. I can somewhat say the same for Joker, but that's a whole different gameplay for him.
Oh you play Isabelle? Personal hygiene and Sunlight must be a foreign concept for you
I think they’re good, but there’s a limit on whether they’re healthy. I think Steve is so hated because he’s a trapper with amazing frame data and good moves, who is extremely passive. More active seeming trappers are less hated. It’s one thing for a snake to set up a all of explosives and mines and pressure you into making a mistake by actually putting pressure on you. Steve is a trapper who can pressure you into making a mistake by sitting in a corner and building a wall, and he’s strongest when you try to stop him from doing so.
Trappers as its own video, huh? Trappers close off your options and mentally were you down by doing the same moves over and over, yet still winning long-range exchanges most of the time. They often have lots of mind-games and tricks that make you mad, as well as their onslaught of projectiles.
Since their playstyle is walling off your opponent, it takes a lot of skill to play them at a top level without leaving yourself wide open. As an Isabelle main day 1, I have gotten used to beating lots of players who love holding forward, and edgeguarding against bad recoveries. But once I run into a character who is more patient, or someone who is faster than her, I tend to fall apart. One time a week ago, I was playing against a Link who played aggressively, and I beat him easily. But the next game, he camped me back, using ONLY ARROWS! We were playing on FD so I couldn't get above him, and as ironic as it is to admit, I was actually losing MENTAL STABILITY playing him. Though maybe that's because it was 1 AM. Still, just goes to show that Trappers are an incredibly underrated archetype.
Would duckhunt count as a trapper?
@@DrunkPanda239 Yes. My definition of a trapper is someone who can set up, a projectile explosive, or really any object somewhere. Pac Man, Villager, Isabelle, Snake, Duck Hunt, and to an extent, even Link.
As a duck hunt main, i love controller the stage with can and manipulating the can to do pretty wacky stuff. Playing with the can is like playing as two characters and can be in two places at once. Theres also the fact that the camera will always follow the can so i can mess with the camera and distract my opponent.
I think PiranhaPlant is a trapper. He doesn’t have many good up close options but pressures ledge very well, and has multiple options for it. He can also punish you for making mistakes
Yes!!!, another archetype analysis, those are my favorite videos!!! :D
6:46 that's sick
Also 13:00 icies are technically trappers by your definition
I can not tell you how many times when i am facing someone as link and they are to afraid to approach me just because i am standing behind remote bomb only for them to get hit by bombarang flying at them from behind or they just get hit with forward air on leadge and die
my favourite of this archetype is definitely Pac-Man. Endlessly fun to watch the works of arc players can create with him.
Great analyzing video. I've been enjoying your channel on smash a lot. I like playing trappers in fighting games. Neutral is heavy in Smash so I can understand players getting frustrated, because they want to rush in and push buttons.
Some players spend a lot of time getting their combos down. Then to be zoned out or stuck in neutral and not given the chance to use what you've been working on is a let down.
another amazingly-explained & astonishingly-easy-to-sit-all-the-way-thru-despite-being-in-bed-&-tired-without-losing-focus-actually...loved the differentiation shown between zoning & trapping using Samus as an example btw!
My favorite trap In the game is as pac-man, charge up a key then drop a hydrant on either far side of the stage.
Jump offstage on the side of the hydrant and throw they key at it.
It’s awesome it’s two pretty powerful attacks that fly across the entire stage with staggered speed and position.
As someone who loves playing Link and sometimes Robin, trappers are a very big threat to anyone unprepared, but there are some characters with anti-trapper tools that can handle them. Mewtwo for example does well vs trappers due to his mix of good range, power, damage racking and having a reflector, a hard to gimp recovery and good projectile in one kit. His downfall is low weight and large hurtbox but that's mitigated with player skill. Mewtwo's speed in both air and ground make him able to weave around trapper gimmicks better than many characters. I consider mewtwo a glass cannon. Explosive in the right hands but if they mess up they can pay the price immediately.
Vars, just wanted to say that I love your channel, as well as the Genshin one! Video essays are some of my favorite media, much more so when my favorite games are involved!
Im sad Bowser Jr got no screen time here but good vid lol
I mean… like yes steve isn’t so good that there isn’t counterplay, but it’s still silly to act like the only reason steve did so well is because people weren’t used to his playstyle, no. Did that contribute to it? Absolutely, but steve is also an objectively overtuned character that simply punishes you for failure much easier than you can punish him for failure.
Sometimes I look at Link and think to myself why this character no longer has any top player rep. That character has so much bullshit and can out trap so much of the new meta threats.
He's really freaking difficult for one, and it's still not clear what his optimal play style is yet
@@aronspiker72 that's true, the problem with Link (adult version) is that there's actually so many ways to play him and there's no clear "optimal" play style for him. He has crazy combos (that's incredibly difficult to pull off), his zoning game is insane, his boxing tools are not bad and has enough range with his sword to be able to at least wall out some stubby characters.
And he has so much power for a zoner, I like to use him as a fighter because no one expects that shit, his Nair, Fair, Tilts and UpB OoS are really good tools
something about this video clicked when I realized trappers are like Spy TF2.
except that there's only one Spy class instead of like 15, so it's feasible to memorize all his tricks and turn him into the worst class in TF2.
Aahh yes, Bowser junior the meta threat
Would Sonic make for an episode of Why No One Plays or Why Everyone Plays?
I feel like nobody in my locals plays Sonic, but lots of top players play him.
I’m not sure. Trappers may make a slight uproar but once people figure out what to do I think that the current top tiers will be able to take them pretty easily.
I main Link, he may not be as a direct case of a trapper as someone like the belmonts or snake but his bomb does apply a lot of pressure, particularly offstage.
Link is slow though, characters like fox are horrible for link because they can afford to just stay in his face the entire time. Link isn’t great under pressure and it’s pretty similar for a lot of the characters you listed. We might have one or two good out of shield options but we don’t have the frame data or speed to get away easily. Once people figure out how to apply consistent, constant pressure in return to trappers it’s game over.
Trappers specialize in keeping that pressure off them, and the ones that are really good have only risen in the meta. Snake and Pac-Man are two such examples.
i think we need a full episode on how ice climbers are secretly amazing
I would still classify DDD as a trapper but I digress.
I'm a snake main and I've beaten friends who were clearly better at the game than me simply by wearing them down over the match
They may even have been a stock ahead, but having to constantly focus on my grenades and C4 while trying to dodge my Nikita missiles off stage is clearly a mentally taxing experience and I capitalize on their mistakes
I like the the different playstyle a trapper adds to the game.
I fought a crazy pacman and snake a few days ago it's a struggle for some character's or players getting in but once you fine a crack in their trap game they tend to panic or have an option b incase their main go to plan fails
Trappers are food for Marth so I'm not scared of them. I take them extremely seriously, though. They can pull off some of the craziest stuff.
A really overlooked trapping tool is Yoshi's egg toss
Gonna be honest, gunner is my favorite trap character with certain combos can make great traps
Video idea
Conditioning or reading your opponent and characters that do it well
When I grind onlines, especially recently, I’ve gone falco a lot. And going up against trappers I’ll usually lose my first two stocks quickly. But if I can get a read on trappers, it can be cake. I’ve reverse 3stocked Young Link and PAC-Man because some players have a hard time mixing up. I’m sure as I go against higher level players this outcome will be reduced, but really it’s not much different from fighting anyone
What if we had a voice chat that could sound like the characters we played as. Imagine the possible immersion you could gain doing that.
So instead of ness saying "okay" you say "spammer" but on the voice chat it sounds like ness saying "spammer" with no delay or restrictions.
That simple tweak may be absolutely game changing for the online gaming industry
I have a feeling that hearing Mario scream the n word at me whenever I kill him would break that immersion somehow
My favorite types of characters as a Snake main
trappers are forever my fav class
Imagine if we could have Astolfo and make him a trap character
Are you proud of this comment
@@BoneTea kinda
Johan: Hey Ayanokoji, can you take Trap to another level?
Ayanokoji: No, you'd persuade Astolfo jump off the Ledge.
Johan: My forte makes Astolfo commit Ledge Trap.
I love you’re videos, but with the Archetype videos would you mind including a list of all the characters you feel fall into the archetype?
Edit: or are the ones you directly covered the only ones you consider as true trappers, because I would think Link and Plant would fall heavily into this category.
As a ken main, i do find zoners and trappers to be the hardest to face
bro really just said just learn the Steve mu. Lmao
The best counterpick against snake is Ness and Lucas. It limits him throwing garbage at you and he has to think.
What is the song used in the background? It sounds pretty cool!
I love trapping with my villager! So many good ways to do it!
Knowledge is half the battle. But the other half is violence
The DFW smash scene needs to watch this
Would piranha plant count as a trapper? I’m confused on what archetype she is
Yes they pretty much only ledge trap
Her main strength is leage trapping. So yes.
I would classify Plant into the "janky low tier" archetype along w/ DDD, Lucario, & Banjo where it's not clear what they're actually intended to do, but they are just really bad.
Vars, I can't play your videos at high volume because your deep baritones pass right through my walls!
"And are ready to clap some cheeks"
You sir
I love you
It sucks that you didn't mention plant at all. That's the only thing he's actually good at
As a Robin main, a can definitely say trapping is fun. I love limiting my opponents options until there is nothing they can do
How does he trap besides his laggy side B
Puff will be a top tier trapper if ult gets melee lifetime
so well put
I dont think so, I think even when fighting a sword character, the first time you fight it, you might would be confused on how to get past of their sword. so it is the same I think, even in my point of view, it is harder on how to learn to get past on a sword skill because it needs a lot of skill
It's really just knowing spacing and threat ranges. Zoners can pull off a shitload of stuff from many different ranges so they're usually less predictable.
As a Kirby main link is so annoying. I have to up b to get in if they're platform hiding. It's either that or inhale
You know the ultimate’s earlymeta threats ken, zss, inkling, and lucina have all not be doing well all thanks buffs nerfs and meta changes it really shows how much people realize that a mostly Rushdown isn’t has effective any that’s why characters like Min Min and young link more popular now
Anyone know the music being played throughout the video?
I main trappers i main bowser JR,isabelle and inkling and love to play pacman and snake too
I think a better term for this character achetype is setplay lol
True
Are belmonts trappers or zoners
Both tbh, they have a lot of ranged projectiles to keep you out with, but also use them to trap you in disadvantage and combo off them
Robin underused under utilized potential top tier
Remote bomb may be the best projectile/item
On one hand it is nice to freshen up the game and include mechanics we've never seen before, but on the other hand it's very lame to have characters only be strong because the opponent doesn't know how to fight them. Matchup knowledge should be important yes, but it shouldn't define an entire character/group of characters
ultimate : matchup chek
melee: enginge ocultism phd check
“And are ready to clap some cheeks”
Do you consider banjo as a trapper ?
I consider him to be in the "low tier" archetype as his design doesn't seem to be built around an actual play style but rather cramming as many references as possible but with the moves themselves being incredibly weak.
Yeah Snake is very much in the category of Frustrating Characters to fight.
He's got so many ludacris options in his kit that people completely despise:
-Frame 1 combo breaking grenades with a huge hitbox and tons of flexible use since he can pull out 2
-Up-Tilt with Smash levels of power
-A Dash Attack with intangibility similar to Palu's
-An Up-Smash that does all the Ledge Trapping for him
-An Side-B that does all the edge guarding for him
-Frame 3 Dair OoS that's powerful
-etc (trust me, there's plenty more)
Along with a shockingly good close range game and a disadvantage for character who doesn't struggle with his projectile heavy neutral, and yet I rarely see anyone complain about him, which for this community who can't seem to stand Rob, Pacman or Steve, all whom are pretty comparable is eyebrow-raising.
I guess people just forgot about him.
His own moves are laggy and very punishable, his mobility is bad, and his recovery is slow and exploitable, he's got some BS but he isn't a mary sue fighter like steve, rob, or mythra
The community doesn't really complain about pacman either.
I think you applied the name "trapper" to a "set up character".
Set up characters are characters who have projectiles that allow them to either combo, mix up or like you said trap. A non Smash example would be Cyrax from Mortal Kombat who's gameplay is dependent on his bombs to mess up the opponent.
Just giving my 2 cents if that was okay.
I wouldn't call Zelda a trapper but to each their own.
I consider Zelda a zoner
@@EmperorPenguin1217 I agree with this
True, unless your trapper is Dedede
Basically, trappers are dangerous because opponents need a shift in mindset. Players need to split their attention instead of focusing solely on the opponent.
People may hate ranged characters but i fine them fun to play as and watch especially when they actually use their brain.
Fancy meeting you here fellow trapper main 👀
@@vick7868 👀
@@Sh1v3rIZAE I love them because it forces other characters to play anti bitchy, I play duck hunt even tho he falls under trapper I wish he had more of a threat because some characters can somewhat get away with a bitchy passive playstyle, which is why trappers are just as important as rush downs because the characters in the middle spectrum like defensive Mario,wolf,cloud,falco yoshi will just take their spot, they’re overhated but needed.
Screw Steve
Finally Smash players can finally know what 'zoners' and 'trappers' are and how they are supposed to be played. Projectile setups aka 'B Button Spammers' for Elite Smashers lol
Yep. This is the same community that refused to learn how to fight Steve even though he's existed for two years
@@EmperorPenguin1217 it’s kinda ridiculous seeing people hating on projectile spammer characters like links, mega man, or one button moves like incin side b without even thinking about how those moves make up a big part of their big brain setups. They just don’t know stuff about it. Would you expect young link to only use a toothpick to fight without any projectiles at all?
@@corrinfevincenohr Well Incineroar doesn’t have anything “big brain” to speak of, and the problem with young link players is that they spam projectiles aimlessly
@@EmperorPenguin1217 well for incin I meant to say how people often criticize skyjay incin as just Side B only character
But yeah for projectile zoners, there’s a huge different between using it as setups or just throwing out projectiles randomly
Great video.
I love the Belmonts! Such a fun and unique character
Too bad 88% of their moveset is not programmed properly. Belmont co main btw
@@aronspiker72 true. Green Hill zone might as well just not use the whip