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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Pokemon Trainer was widely considered one of the best characters in the game during the first full year of Smash Ultimate, illustrated by their great representation and equally great tournament results. Following the return to offline in 2021, Pokemon Trainer has declined significantly in popularity. Today we're gonna talk about why that's the case in Why NO ONE Plays: Pokemon Trainer.
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Shame they’ve lost competitive relevance because they’re one of the coolest designed fighters in the game and by far the best representative of Pokémon as a franchise
Pyra and Mythra without the steroids
@@SineFineInanis yes yes
Absolutely
Super fun character and amazing design
Never understood why they never put actual fighting Pokémon in this game like Hitmonchan/Hitmonlee or Machamp. Move sets would be lit. Even a Primeape would be dope. I get Pikachu, but Jigglypuff smfh
Still one of the most exciting additions to the franchise tbh
I lol'd pretty hard at "warcrimes for aerials". It's so true, Ivysaur has some of the best in the game. Which is pretty bizarre for a plant.
Piranha Plant cant even be footstoled on the ground.
see the memes on its upair. no, its down air to be specific. almost sonic levels of ridiculous.
such fun memories as a casual
Something, something vines that can blot out the sun?
at the very least, they're one of the most entertaining characters to watch imo. Being 3 characters in one and each one having different strengths and weaknesses provides a good amount of variance in a match, plus seeing how different players pilot them
if it's a solo ivy mu it's a bit lamer but yeah i agree.
You forgot to mention in Brawl they used to take more damage based off the element they got hit by. For example Ivy took more to fire attacks.
Yeah making Ivysaur the most vulnerable of them all, since _nobody_ has water or grass attacks except PT, but nearly EVERYONE has fire attacks. XP
Classic Brawl logic lol.
@@lasercraft32 Brawl absolutely LOVED Ivysaur, didn't they? :/
@@lasercraft32 Was Squirtle not weak to electric/energy moves?
@@flameofmage1099 Nope. They added the weaknesses so that the three would counter each other. :P
@@lasercraft32 Oh ok. Don't know why I thought that
PT's disadvantage is by far one of the most daunting factors when it comes to their pros and cons. They've been my main for the better part of a few months now but it can be difficult navigating through matches with the lack of speed and overall lag they have at times. Even then, they're one of the characters that kept me motivated enough to keep practicing Ultimate, so I'm thankful. Plus they're fun to experiment with.
Pokemon Trainer was my main in Brawl and when Red returned in Ultimate he went back to my main. I honestly don't care if he isn't used highly in competition play because I still like Red.
I think a new series that should exist is like “Why MORE people should play _____” and it details a character’s strengths that are good in the current meta but not much people play them unless it’s too similar to “Why No one plays.” Some characters who fit that bill are like Terry, Young Link, Ness, or Samus
Agreed.
This is such a good idea.
I think this is a good idea but the example of ness being underplayed is simply not true
but those 4 are so cringe
Please don't tell more people to play ness
Pokémon Trainer is my main so I've been looking forward to this video for a while. Honestly mostly what I expected - having to learn 3 individual movesets and 3 times as many matchups make them probably the hardest character to just pick up and learn, especially compared to many other characters who are both simpler and higher tier. That said I still think they're an incredibly fun and rewarding character if you put the time in - being able to just _entirely switch archetypes in the middle of the match_ is so freeing, especially as someone who tends to get bored playing one character after not too long.
you worded this so nicely thank you for sharing your perspective
Kind of unrelated, but in a game where kill throws are rare, why does PT have SEVEN?! (squirtle bthrow, ivy dthrow and bthrow, charizard fthrow and bthrow and upthrow)
Also each of the 3 have a very good combo game out of grab. Zard even has low % back throw cheese that can steal a stock. All 3 have amazing grabs too. Squirtle dash grab is god tier, Ivy Nearly has tether grab range, zard has a grapplers grab range.
As an ex-PT main, I'm so happy you made this video. I know my reason for stopping, but wondered what made everyone else stop
What was your reason? (And why make me ask?)
Please do share!
PT is the most overrated character in ultimate (sadly)
Ex-ex PT main. We spent some time apart but we got back together. Jokes aside, I was really upset about how terrible they did against ranged fighters along with generally terrible landing options and ledge options. I figured their meta couldn’t develop much further and that the counterplay was too apparent. However, they’re easily the most fun character I’ve ever played in smash. It’s enough for me to look past the bad sides and push their strengths even harder
@@adrien4337yeah theres way more over-rated characters
The biggest buff they should have done is be able for you to switch "backwards". (Squirtle switching to Charizard without needing to go to Ivysaur first)
This could have been easily implemented too by letting the player skip one Pokemon during the switch by holding the special button instead of simply tapping it.
The best buff would be to fix ivysaur tether / Up special.
@@adrien4337 I would actually rather have the first thing 😂 Vine whip is fine you just need to position it correctly. Going straight from ivy to squirtle between stocks would be perfect
“warcrimes to aerials” i was not expecting that holy shit lmfao
Another reason why PT fell off is because of severe nerfs. Ivysaur lost his broken dair. Yea it's still good but before it was literally easier to hit the sweet spot than sour spot. He also had vine whip lose significant knockback taking away a vital kill option. Razor leaf also gained a few frames in start up.
Dair and vine whip are still super strong and zard was buffed in return
Pt got buffed that patch tbf
I'm a current PT main that dropped the character for all the reasons you mentioned. However I actually came back to playing them after a year because I missed the feeling of always learning something new about a matchup. Yes it's a lot of work as you said but I also think that's part of the fun of ultimate.
13:07 i will never do something as impressive as that
I think it would be better if squirtle was replaced by wartortle and ivysaur to bulbasaur.
Bulbasaur being a little more evasive but lighter won't hurt it much, since it is playing on distance anyway, while wartortle will reward with a little bit more survivability and kill power, but still lacking physics.
And also giving them a down-b would help a lot.
In order to change pokémon they have to shield and press b, just like inkling charges her ink. Double b of course meaning to skip directly to the other pokémon.
I love how a lot of the recent videos I've been watching have been using the Pokemon Colosseum OST. Such an iconic soundtrack!
Back-throw into Flare Blitz is such a headass combo
Totally off topic from the video but that cipher peon battle theme from pokemon coliseum takes me back :,)
PT is the coolest character in the game but people just don’t wanna play em
I wouldn't say PT is as mentally draining as you say because all three of them have very simple game plans.
agreed dude. I hard disagreed with this video but thats just imo! Vars still ofc has killer video quality.
100%
Even if each of them is fairly simple, it can still be mentally taxing to entirely switch gears and start working with an entirely different set of muscle memory on a moment's notice.
@@SSM24_ it’s not too hard if you already have experience playing with a fair amount of the roster. It’s def only easy if you have a good amount of skill in the game already.
@@SSM24_ Honestly, not really. I cannot confirm this at a high level of competitive play but if you know how to play them it isn't as hard to change playstyles as it seems.
PT isnt the best but has the greatest potential. Like it’s been highlighted in the video, we’re talking about potential only, and we know that in real life, full potential is hardly ever reached. I’d love to see more PT in tournaments top8s.
At long last. A video that explains my exact feelings about P.T. and why I love AND hate this character and being a main of this character. Great advantage state on all 3, awful disadvantage on all 3... overall a glass cannon jack of all trades master of none who relies on matchup knowledge for all 3 characters and in depth knowledge of how every move in your arsenal works.
As someone who used to main Pokemon Trainer, there's one other big problem. These characters have NOTHING to deal with zoning. The only one with the neutral to combat zoners is Ivysaur and Ivysaur is the worst at approaching. Squirtle can slip by, but you're at the mercy of guessing what the opponent will do. Charizard is too big and his approach is really obvious, so that's that.
I enjoy this character a lot. It feels good to learn how each Pokémon works and functions together. Even if the character is overshadowed, they are still fun for me
I play pokemon trainer and i can say that pt isnt mental draining at all. Pt is very easy to play
P.T. is easy for those who have an easy time learning multiple characters but not everyone is built the same. I love P.T. and probably always will regardless of what I say.
100% said the same thing. PT main since release.
It was mentioned that pt is momentum based. I think the idea of trying to figure out all matchups is a little weird. Especially since there are almost 100 characters, i feel it makes more sense to not go in with matchup knowledge per-say. some adjustments to gameplan makes sense, but since their offense is so good, they stay strong because I think it’s better for them to stay strong and confident and just stick to the strong offense. Overthinking disadvantage and trying to dissect the roster counteracts the foundation of the character. Focus on your game, know the character rather than the opponent, be confident and get creative. In my opinion, that is the magic of PT and is what makes the character worth playing
There's also one more reason. PT gets a LOT out of grabs, combos and kills. It gets to the point where mid-level players get so used to grabbing it becomes a bad habit, and even higher up - you can see it even in the mentioned game of Leo vs Tweek. I've mained PT since day 1, I defintely fell into this trap myself and I see the shortcoming of the character, and whenever I go ahead and play other characters I do tend to go for a lot of grabs myself (which ironically becomes an upside to my Roy and Fox). They also lack the typical mixup of landing with an aerial and using a ground move afterwards (aside from squirtle), charizard in general doesnt have safe aerials so his gameplay is callout heavy.
Great video
ALL of the Pokémon trio are great with Grabs: they have 6 kill grabs after all, and combo kills for Ivysaur as well. Also don't forget the switch pokemon becoming another bad Habit. PT is in general creates A LOT of bad habits proplayers are good at exploiting.
You know, I’m noticing a running theme of every character in this series and even Why Everyone Plays having bad disadvantage.
Are there any characters with _good_ disadvantage in this game?
zss and game and watch are like the only ones i can think of lol
ZSS, Game and Watch, Meta Knight, Pikachu, Lucario, Mii Brawler... Being "good" in disadvantage is extremely difficult to measure because some aspect of defense lacks in pretty much any character besides the one I mention
Pt isn’t even bad it’s just the Meta shifted away from them
I don’t think PT is as exhausting as a character like Sheik. I actually don’t even think Ivysaur or Charizard is that difficult in terms of character mastery. But the part about character matchups is a very good point.
I agree. They’re not mentally exhausting for anyone who has a good grasp on the game.
Once upon a time, my main was Charizard and Cloud's up-air was really good.
It’s crazy to think Ultimate has more than 50 more characters than Brawl
Honestly I think he’s fine where he is
The only change I would make is let us skip the queue
Like squirle to charzard by double tapping B for recovery of a quick switch for solomains would be far better
I have been a huge fan of Pokemon my whole life and Smash since Melee. I've played the melee roster a million times over growing up but lost the game cartridge in my late teens (top 10 anime betrayals) and finally own Smash Ultimate. I love this game so much ive always been obsessive over stuff like frame data even though I was never particularly good- I just thought it was so cool and its carried into my adult life as a special interest I can now obsess over again. My biggest problem as a player was sticking to one character....so i kind of half - 3/4 learned the entire roster without having a main - until friends had Brawl/Project M and I became a Luigi main immediately.
He doesn't feel the same in Ultimate though and I've been playing the roster again trying to find a main and I stumbled onto Pokemon Trainer yesterday - and man I have not had this much fun since I first found out about Luigi Down-Taunt. This is the perfect character for me to nerd out with, and there's enough variety to fit each of my favored playstyles (B&P/Heavy go brr) and learn another (edge guarding/grab game). The only thing I'm missing now is item sniping - but i can settle for Squirtle Side-B because that dmg immunity is so fun to mess around with and he just becomes the projectile.
Perfect Video - all the more reason to give PT some love
Would love to see a Meta Knight video. He was easily the most popular character in Brawl and not many people play him in Ultimate.
I honestly kinda wish that Charizard was still available to play as its own character (with Rock Smash instead of switching out). I enjoyed playing him in Smash 4, even without the other two.
What is the website he used at 1:07
Main reason he was dropped was because of the Ivy nerfs, Ivy was hella broken in vanilla ultimate but after they gave him the "proper" nerfs ppl dropped him cuz he wasn't "broken" anymore
Edit
To give y'all a heads up, ppl use to only play Squirtle and Ivy or just solo Ivy and they'd win games.
They never touched Zard cuz Zard was ALOT weaker then he is now.
But Ivy didn't have bad mu before the nerfs.
Funny thing is I think most people agree that PT was overall buffed by that patch - it's just you actually have to use the character's gimmick now so less people are interested :p
I am a Shulk main who subs 20+ characters. Including Pokemon Trainer
my list of reasons in games before ultimate: they're a niche that's only based on the Pokemon franchise; their advantages outweigh their disadvantages in every form; the "exhaustion" mechanic does not go away in a typical match's length, meaning that if you are good enough to survive, all three pokemon will be slowed and have lower damage; Other than Squirtle, both ivysaur and charizard are slow with telegraphed, multi-frame attacks; Squirtle has very little knockback and his only real means of damage is catching an opponent in any of his multi-hit moves with perfect accuracy
I miss rocksmash. It gave charizard landing options, super armor and dealt tons of damage. They killed him when they removed it
The character I JUST DROPPED. Can u do one for Pichu, the one I dropped PT for?
As a PT main, I really appreciate you addressing this! I think that you made a really great point about their disadvantage state, they all suffer greatly and their options feel easier to bait and punish then most top/high tiers. But I disagree with PT being a difficult character. I think that they have some of the easiest 30-40 percent combos to pull off, and that one of the hardest things to do with them is squirtle’s jab locks which isn’t too hard. Switching between damage dealing, into Zoning and Kill confirming, into baiting and raw killing, feels pretty intuitive. I think PT’s biggest problem that made them decline is that most of the top tiers can handle all 3 Pokémon very well. Pika, joker, peach, palu, wolf, I don’t think have to revolutionize their game plan to handle each individual Pokémon. And switching Pokémon off stage is easy to punish when you are squirtle especially. I think the top 10 keep Pokémon trainer out comfortably in the 20-10 position. None of the Pokémon ever feel safe from getting KO’d, mostly cause squirtle is light, Ivy is Surprisingly light, and you’re often charizard at higher percent. I also think Ness, Luigi, and Game and Watch all do well against PT. Due to all that I think most player’s eventually realize that whatever secondary they try and pick up to cover PT’s weaknesses, are usually just an out right better character. Just my opinion, you are the best for making this, thank you!
Remember when Quidd won Lets Make Big Moves and PKMN Trainer’s stock skyrocketed for a little bit?
Completely understand all of your points and I agree. Im still gonna main PT though just because Ive had the most fun with the pokemon of any other characters in the game. And who can so to a solid Ivysaur spike?? 🤣
I mean Leffen also stopped playing Ultimate. He also had a very good PT and nearly got on the PGR with the character. Likely as a result of not getting on though it killed his motivation to play and he started focusing back on Melee.
nice touch to include pkm colosseum music always amazing songs
Squirtle for pokes, Ivy for aerial fighting, and Charizard for finishers. Also can just counter people based on what speed or class they're weakest against? The versatility is nuts for creative fighters.
I was going crazy because I've been watching your videos and thinking how your voice sounds so recognizable. And then I realized I watched a bunch of your league videos on your other channel when my friends made me download it.
Your analysis is so on point, it's extremely enjoyable watching your videos!
I tried it
I played Ivysaur when the game started and then kept dying when thrown offstage
Also shouts to the Cipher Peon theme from Colosseum
Miror B’s themes would have been nice in Smash
You can’t use vine whip vertically. You need to be back from the ledge enough that ivy’s “eyes” can still see the ledge, or the up b will just shark the stage and not grab ledge. Vine whip reaches from stoooopid distances.
I guess I’m drawn to the complex characters because I’ve mained Bayo for quite a while and now I’ve switched to Pokémon Trainer. I wouldn’t say that PT has the worst profits for all the effort it takes to master them. I think of characters like Ken and Ryu and maybe Ice Climbers who take a ton of work and then are just as good as a simple character but I do get what you’re saying.
I main PT cause I love Pokémon and they’re the coolest character to me personally. I love the Kanto starter line and charizard is so fun to use as well as the other two . They’re difficult to use forsure but when I use them I genuinely feel like a Pokémon trainer . I get hype just switching all throughout matches and changing my play style up randomly to throw my opponents off . If need be , I will choose the best for a hard to overcome matchup and strictly stick to that mon but I find myself being flexible enough with all three after so much playtime and training with the three of them .
I used to love pokemon trainer but i liked the older charazard that had bouldersmash it was a great counter and could time to block attacks was just amazing its such a shame they never expanded it to have added more pokemon and chose your lineup instead.
I still play them. I’m not a tourny player, tho I’d love to be. I think they’re great and solo viable. They don’t have any “unwinnable” MUs. Some are hard such as Mario/Palu/Pac-Man. I would love to see more top player reps.
Young link might be unwinable tbh, rob is also extremely rough
@@chiliandcornbread09 young link is def a rough MU. Amazing zoning and good enough boxing and decent disjoints to deal with squirtle.
I’ve always switched between Pokémon because I loved taking advantage of the different strategy they offer. Squirtle is quick and his water gun helps keep opponents away while you do quick damage if you can get close, Ivysaur helps do extra damage while being able to take some hits and then Charizard does the big damage.
I'd like to make myself believe that the reason people stopped playing as Pokémon Trainer (and to a lesser extend, the Aegis) is because of the fact that you're playing as multiple different characters. They have the distinct (and sometimes unfair) advantage of having more moves than most of the other characters in the roster.
Still miss playing Charizard solo. Had him replaced with Incediroar as my casual go to.
1:17 bro I don't even play this game, I just like the lore.
I love PT, and they’ve been my main for a couple of years now! They certainly have a broken advantage state, but all 3 Pokémon share 2 fatal flaws: they have slow air-speed and can’t get off ledge. Feeling helpless in disadvantage can get annoying, so I understand why lots of players like other characters that do better in those areas
Another point that didn’t get brought up is that you need to be able to enjoy each of them I personally think they’re the most fun characters in their archetypes but I know multiple people that either really like 1 but not the other 2 or like 2 but are put off by the other one so they don’t have the motivation to pick up the character to begin with
Video Idea: What Happened to Zelda/Shiek
Already did sheik
if ivy could immediately switch to squirtle or zard, pt would be so much better.
Yup, the set cycle def hinders the character’s flexibility.
Surprised there was no mention of Brawl's knockback type effectiveness, something that would be really cool to see on Squirtle again given all of the fire attacks that Smash has
these are like my favorite videos on youtube
brawler era? bro I don't even play smash, but still enjoy ur vids hahah
WOW, three uploads from my favorite YT?! what a day.
People saying "pokemon trainer is hard because you have 3 characters" are pretending they arenät playing him accurate to the games
Only 4 moves per pokemon
Pokemon trainer was the character i was the most excited for, i actually made a tshirt design for my fellow PT mains. But at the time PT was having a lot of success so i was catching heat for tier whoring so i swapped off. And i'm just now learning from this video that PT isn't really top tier anymore lol
It’s still top tier.
@@InfinateRadiant from the video it sounded like pt was high tier not necessarily top tier
pt and shulk stat shifts are also a trait shared with olimar. though for olimar it's very much worse as it's more complex and are more vulnerable without using it. like if shulk had all the debuffs of his monado arts all the time so is forced to use manado arts to make one of them good for a short bit.
You forgot the biggest reason. Half the PT community swapped out after ivysaur nerfs.
I STRONGLY disagree that Pokémon Trainer is a hard character to play. They are 99% fundamentals. Sure the moves are different on each character, but if you’re good enough at the game, you can feel the range of every attack and understand what situations require which moves from each pokemon. They still all play within mostly the same close to mid range during neutral, so you shouldn’t have too hard of a time switching between them.
So basically you have more options but that means you have more Chances to pick the wrong option
Your options are restrained due to the set cycle for switches and the commitment that comes with switching.
Even though I don’t play as any Pokémon I think the trio should have had 4 specials, and the switch being an out of the box input like L+R like it was for Lighting’s paradigms in Dissidia
Yet another fighter where the explanation boils down to "nah too much thinking ima play Palu".
most PT mains run from the grind, but I still wholeheartedly believe in the viability of this character.
I always assumed they were high tier because of their versatility but I guess I was wrong
Why no one plays Banjo Next!
Why Pokemon Trainer isn't relevant anymore - in a nutshell:
Pokemon Trainer: Who are you two?
Pyra/Mythra: We're you, but with less swaping, more power and more speed.
I swear the only pokemon out of the 3 of them that makes perfect sense without really thinking is Squirtle, the other 2 make me feel like I have to actually figure out how to play them specifically
Really? Squirtle is def the hardest of the 3. It’s easier to move around with the lil dude, but getting in and not over committing is learnt from good experience. Ivy is easy and good. Charizard is easy and cheesy.
@@patrickburton1401 to be fair I am saying this from the perspective of somepne who doesn't use PT, but also purely from a pilotting perspective, Squirtle just FEELS like he makes the most sense
I agree the other 2 are better and they can make easy and goofy kills happen with less effort, but they just FEEL different, again, purely from a pilotting perspective
@@Fibless they do feel very different. The attributes of Ivy clash to what squirtle can do, so it can be hard to get used to. Zard’s ground speed is surprisingly amazing, but very sluggish in the air. You have to get used to playing with their attributes.
Really surprised you haven’t done a chrom one yet, like he was looked at as the best sword character at the start of this game
Imma still play PT even if They got an enormous learning ceiling they’re fun and for me they’re feel the most rewarding to play and I’m not going to evo anyways lol
Coming back to this video, I can definitely say more than once I've used Side B as Squirtle when I wanted Razor Leaf, and same as Charizard. There's times I've done up B when wanting vine whip as well as the wrong pokemon. I OCCASIONALLY get mixed up but thats out of raw frustration at my opponent reading my every move. (I have one guy I play with who's infinitely better and genuinely doesn't seem to think about what he does but just plays so perfectly as a majority of the roster, but he mains Roy and Ganondorf.)
You should make a video for byleth, I feel like I don’t see a lot of them except for people who play the character for two seconds because they wanna be like mkleo
Bro I literally just started playing Pokémon trainer, every other why no one plays has been characters I like to play.
Stop watching me bro 👀
I had a dream that vars made a why no one plays banjo
8:48
So what you're saying is, in order to play Pokemon Trainer, you need to know your type matchups and be the very best, like no one ever was.
*[Johto Champion Battle begins ominously playing and increasing in volume]*
I think I know a guy who can coach you on that.
"......."
Ima be honest, this feels like a Smash Bros issue that gets highlighted by the fact you have 3 characters.
The whole example of "sometimes you want to be squirtle, but want one of Ivysaurs or Charizards attacks and vise versa" - yeah.. that's the point of them being 3 different characters. Sometimes when I play Kirby I really wish I had a Sephiroths sword to have better range and sometimes I wish I had PK fire for zoning.
When people complain that one PT Pokemon isn't like the other - well that's the point. You can equate it to, imagine you're playing Pichu and have the ability to change into either Dr. Mario or Ridley.
This isn't a dog on the video, I'm just saying I think people complaining about that is a bit silly. At any point of any game where you're in a unfavorable matchup with any character, you can say to yourself "man I wish I had x, y, z move to make this matchup better"
Wonderful video though!
While this is true, I think part of the reason it's a problem is because other characters have movesets with enough variety to accommodate multiple playstyles already. For instance, characters like Wolf, Young Link, and ROB have access to both good ranged tools _and_ good close-quarters tools simultaneously. Importantly, you don't have to commit to one kind of moveset like Pokémon Trainer has to. This means that if you're looking for a flexible character who can comfortably handle different playstyles - which feels like exactly what PT's design is trying to go for - I'd argue there are generally better choices than them.
Honestly, i feel like the main reason i never play pt outside of randoms is solely because of how many moves/combo routes they have. like don't get me wrong, i main terry with a ryu secondary, i love complex combos and movesets, but fuck it's three characters
i will never complain about PT again if they just buffed Charizards side b. The amount of moves it loses to is ridiculous.
can we get a video on mewtwo ? literally NO ONE plays him it’s sad
Bloodmoon still plays Pkmn Trnr sometimes... Mainly, he plays Luigi however
I always thought they should have treated switching pokemon like they do when switching characters in a tag team fighter. Switching essentially creates an opportunity the pokemon switching in can capitalize on. There would have to be some sort of limit on it or a reason why you wouldn't want to constantly switch though, or such a mechanic can become degenerate quickly. But imagine basically being able to do a combo that sees you toggle through your pokemon to extend it.
Anyway, at least something like that can give a bit of an advantage instead of simply choosing the best mediocre character to fit the situation. I would be concerned about how to limit its abuse, as something like a secondary resource to track just adds additional complexity to an already complex character. Whatever mechanic they use it should feel seamless and have easy to understand rules that means you always know if you can switch.
As a solo Zard main, I can affirm that trying to master Charizard alone is mentally draining. Charizard has to rely more on mobility and player adaptation, as his buttons are generally more committal than that of other characters, making his autopilot game weaker, which is why I play a more conservative neutral. But at the same time, the reward he gets off smart aggressive big dick reads makes them worth going for, especially considering in theory the opponent is more scared of Zard than he is of them. And I definitely agree with the more options doesn't mean better. Everyone thought I wouldn't survive as solo Zard without a down B, I never needed that shit. Sharpy never really used Rock Smash all that often in Sm4sh anyways
Charizard to be stand alone. While I love Squirtle and Ivysaur as Pokémon, they don’t belong as stand alone smash characters. Charizard has the popularity and power to stand on his own.
In addition to dumping Squirtle and Ivysaur I would buff Charizard’s weaknesses to compensate for the loss of his buddies while leaving his strengths alone. He could later be further buffed if needed.
I think PT’s switch down b was meant to be their “escape from pressure” move. It can be useful at times, but it’s only really good once or twice before your opponent catches on. With that and the predictable nature of the switch, pt falls flat
I do think that if given a drop down menu to switch between Pokémon could have given pt a bit more of an edge. Hell, if you included the drop down and if you “selected” your current Pokémon to perform a special move (like charizards rock smash) it would have given them more of a get off me then
I feel like the easiest solution would just be to make it so the switch can pick one or the other based on if your tap or held the B button. Tapping swaps to the next in rotation while holding swaps to the previous one in the rotation.
If you want to give them actual Down B moves again, I feel a more interesting (if admittedly also more limiting) option would be to change the switching mechanic to work on Shield+B like Inkling's refill mechanic. The obvious downside is that this eliminates the ability to switch in midair, but with access to actual Down B options it might be worth it depending on what kind of options it gives them.
The disrespect to upload two everyone plays today, but then a no one plays on Pokemon trainer
honestly, i get your points, but playing it is just so fun with 3 different characters