How "Not Tomorrow Yet" Made Rick's Group The Villains
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ต.ค. 2022
- Over the course of the series, Rick and company become no strangers to having to kill other people in order to protect the ones they love. While we don’t view this as villainous or evil because they’re killing in self-defense, there’s a dramatic shift in reasoning in the episode Not Tomorrow Yet, where our group actually decides to go on offense instead of defense for the first time.
SUBSCRIBE TO MY CHANNEL: / @thethriftytypewriter
Join My Discord!
/ discord
Outro:
Late Night Driving - Broke In Summer
Recommended Channels:
Reel Talk:
/ @thereeltalkpodcast
The Culture Cave:
/ @thecaveofculture
Warping Fist:
/ @warpingfist
Isaiah Saunders:
/ @zzzaydream
Flix Masher:
/ @flixmasher9573 - บันเทิง
something about this episode that not many people noticed is how at the church scene when rick says “we’ll kill them all” the camera then cuts to tara rolling her eyes, it comes full circle since last time she heard that exact phrase it was coming from the governor.
Nah its because tara makes every scene cringy, her whole character is that shes a brat
@@Sernival I kind of like the idea of her character, but don't think she's a great actress (not awful, but below the level she should be). It also feels like no effort was given to her writing or character development after season 4.
@@Joshua-fi4ji EXACTLY!! She’s was around for a long time but her arch was kind of lame after everything she seen
Her acting was mediocre and she had a bad role to where they abandoned the character for like 2seasons until circling back to kill her off
Probably because she was so unlikable😅
Her acting was good for her character type but when it later came to more serious scenes like the dwight revenge plot she fell completely flat and you can't really write a character arc for an actress that can't even deliver her performance in a convincing way, she ends up coming across like a child.
Yeah, but ricks group didn’t take saviors hostage and torture and sexually assault them to set it off like with the Governor.
It's so wild when Season 11 Negan tells Maggie how he would've killed them all in the line up instead of showing them mercy with just the 2 kills. Especially when he says how the Saviors here at the outpost had families (like Gracie) and you look back on this episode realizing that the group really did get off easy in comparison. It was just more brutal for us bc this is OUR group so losing Glenn and Abraham was more traumatic than seeing a bunch of nameless Saviors killed. I especially love how this episode really gave us Glenn's first kill (which in itself is crazy after 6 whole seasons) on top of Heath's and Gabriel's firsts too. Easily a top tier episode for sure 👌🏽
I think the moment rick realized he wasn't the good guy anymore was that episode that he and daryl are at the other outpost and he kills gracies dad thinking that the dad was actually keeping him from the weapons... and then he runs into morales. Fuck that was brutal.
@@specialagentweener1073 on top of that we see Daryl embrace being the villain here too after casually killing Morales. Rick says something like "Do you know who that was?" and Daryl's just like "Yeah, don't matter" which shows you just how far gone they've really become. This show has its moments but the storytelling has almost always been pretty great especially with episodes like these
@@kahlillej Yeah but that also was arguably another turning point. In the end, Rick decided to spare Negan and brung peace to both groups. He was the good guy in the end
@@mrcrackdonald_1 only comic Rick does while show Rick only spared his life bc of Carl final wish before he died which he had to honor bc Carl was his son after all
@@Jack.Martson Whatever the cause or catalyst, Rick had shown his morality
So sad to see glenn go, he never wanted to kill anyone. His first kill literally traumatized him
like outta all people that Negan could’ve targeted and it was the person who didn’t wanna hurt anyone to begin with
He was genuinely a sweetheart
When they had to take the prison he volunteered to run for the gate just because he was the fastest runner
@@princesschanel469 exactly man
But he still did it.
Glenn had such an innocence to him and that's what made his death so tragic and disturbing.
1:19 Rick is right though. We all know The Saviors would have tried to do the same to Alexandria as they had done to Hilltop and The Kingdom.
Yeah the arguments for our main group becoming less moral throughout the series are definitely valid but the grey area comparisons between them and the Saviors are stupid. The Saviors are objectively a far more evil group, they actively search out groups to enslave just to grow their own strength, and kill anyone who doesn't want to do so or even for minor disrespect if they feel like it. Unadvisable by Negan of course but they can get away with it.
Exactly. The existence of the Saviors created a problem for hilltop, which in turn affected their ability to trade with Alexandria. Didn’t they want Gregory’s head? There’s no way Alexandria had any choice at all in this situation, they were next regardless.
@@ryatt9365 YUP. I hate this hand wringing people do to sort of lessen the impact of Negan and the Saviors as "we are the same" bullshit. The Saviors had already attacked Sasha, Daryl, and Abe in the road. Which means they had already attacked our group first. They force people into a life of slavery against their will under threat of death/violence. Rick's group may be as violent, but they have NEVER given into to ideas of forcing people against their will to do stuff like slavery or even the harem that Negan has.
Saviors had infinite # of times to slaughter them and chose not to.
@@fizzychizzy I agree that the saviors are the greater evil for sure. But as we see in the alexandria group, not everyone was willing to kill, they did it because they believe it was necessary to survive. Who was to say that those guys were not very happy with what they needed to do. At the end of the day, the true evil was negan imo, it didn't have to be this way, but he made it so.
6B is criminally underrated, the shift in story and build up to the saviors was really well done imo
S6 is all round I feel like
I love season 6 it’s my favorite season.
@@antski5758 not a fan of the show anymore but when I used to watch it I thought that season 6 was the best so far. The first 3 episodes were honestly great from what i remember and then of course episode 8 and 9, and then i dont remember all that much of the rest but i remember liking it.
No Way Out-Last Day On Earth
Season 6 is an amazing season even the weaker episodes like 6x5 and 6x13 are fantastic.
Carols character has come such a long way it’s rlly crazy
Especially going from someone that wouldn't even say no or even think of saying no to her husband to someone that literally would shoot a kid in the back of the head and yes she was crazy she wasn't saying she was bad sin psychopathic but at the end of the day it's still a f****** kid I love Carol I love Daryl I love Rick I love Rick I love machine I love all of them but they are just as bad
@@sammywilliam8156 I love machine too
@@yungcris5211 machine mvp
@Women should cook And clean unprompted ooo edgy
@Women should cook And clean unprompted I miss your dad beating yo ass into a dough.
Yeah this is the episode that reminds us we're not following good guys in this story, we're following survivors.
That’s exactly why I hate how nowadays the show runners refer to the main characters of the twd as ‘heroes’ instead of ‘survivors’, plus it’s just super cringe
@@benmcbride2590 I mean maybe there not heroes but they certsinly are not bad guys.
Well, yes, and no. If you look at all the groups, Rick's group is easily the most moral, especially in S1,2, and 9. Other groups are either prisoners, gang members, rapists, have killed children for sport, kill in general for sport, or just not good human beings.
Morally wrong but unintentionally good in terms of strategy. This oversight caused Negan to underestimate our crew. He thought killing a few people would keep them in line. He didn't understand what they'd been through. Evident when he watched Deanna's video of feral Rick and said "I'd like to meet THAT guy." Rick was still that guy and Negan would soon realize it. Makes me think back to the cannibals saying our group had never known what it was like to be hungry. They seemed to be rationing before finding the prison. Lesson is don't make assumptions based on your first meeting.
Negan actually says “I would not have messed with that guy but you’re not him anymore” but yeah your point still stands 😂
Feral Rick lmao that sounds like a wild pokemon 🤣🤣🤣
Not saying you're wrong about them being hungry before the prison and getting to terminus, but they definitely starved more than ever after leaving the church right before aaron found them, they nearly looked like walkers themselves stumbling down the road.
@@Blaster-Rat I agree they were at a new breaking point considering the size of their group. They were eating wild dogs and one of my favorite scenes is when Daryl brought a possum to Alexandria. Good ol country eatin! But yeah there was stuff off screen before the prison with their food struggles but we can only really speculate there.
Yeah they were struggling both before the prison then before Aaron found them. In the first episode of season 3 Carl was going to eat dog food because he was desperate enough to eat anything he possibly could even if it's disgusting. Then before Aaron found them they could barely walk let alone do anything else. They had to ignore a bunch of walkers on their trail because they wanted to conserve what little energy they had left. It's likely they would have died if not for Aaron. This group has been through hell and back. Negan underestimated them and that was his downfall.
Me personally I think Aaron's line of " if it wasn't us, it would have been you" is a reference to the Wolves earlier in the season because the only if not main reason why the Wolves attacked Alexandria was because of Aaron's pictures. If not for that there is a chance the Wolves would have gone for the savior's outpost instead
Honestly. Rick and his group did the right think killing those saviors at the outpost, where rick and his group fucked up was that they got really complacent and shouldve assumed that there were more outposts and stayed prepared especially knowing how massive and organized the saviors were.
Its crazy that Negan punishing them for this may have actually kept them from becoming even more terrible people. Like this was the worst thing they’d ever done and it was quickly followed by punishment. Making them act with compassion moving forward. Just crazy how they got so close to becoming “evil” and the universe of the show punished them for it. Just a great bit of organic storytelling
Rick wasnt evil though, the saviours were and they deserved it
@@ned_is_missing5724Rick my not have been evil but he definitely knew how to manipulate his people cuz he legit just made all his people kill other people just off them being a potential threat and that they need food a sane person would’ve just looked for more food rather than kill others then get a payment of food for it🤷🏾♂️ Rick was not sane atp
@@ned_is_missing5724 the saviors weren’t evil, Negan and Simon were. I mean you could still make the argument that the saviors complying with Negan makes them evil so it ain’t cut and dry
@@dantelivingston345 oh no it wasnt just negan and simon. Therws several instances where we see saviours arriving to the communities and treating people like trash and threatening them, and several instances where they kill people on their own accord
@@ned_is_missing5724Arat a perfect example. Killed Olivia and had a big hand in killing all the Ocean side Men.
I’ve never viewed what they did as villainous, I mean it was a ruthless plan & killing people while defensively sleeping was pretty cold but look who they attacked, a group that killed at 16 year old kid for not delivering supplies, that outpost got better then they deserved.
I agree with this completely
@@cee_jay_mcc7914 if they go along then they made their choice, it’s not black & white, I said that in my first comment but they’re No innocents, Ricks group shouldn’t lose sleep over those bastards
@@cee_jay_mcc7914 not a moot argument, have u ever seen Rick kill someone for fun, cause he wanted to show dominance, it’s true they all have blood on their hands, nobody’s really “innocent” but I don’t have any sympathy for Negan’s people when they harass, humiliate & kill for their own amusement.
@@TheMarine316 totally agree. they took pleasure in subjugating and killing others. if they only did it out of survival, doesn't matter because they still killed relentlessly. if doing these actions really bothered some saviors they could have attempted to join the other communities and gave this life up.
@@grungeg7086 💯
I like how Rick said kill them all just like the governor said and it zooms on Tera face because she knows he starting to turning into the governor.
Also tara just uses other people to survive she doesnt care about doing the right thing
@@Sernival I think she sort of cared about doing the right thing because when the governor was actually she didn’t try and fight ricks group.
Governor killed innocent people because he's a crazy killer that wanted revenge. Rick's group killed because the Saviors were monsters and they wanted to survive.
@@deckzone3000 I mean rick didn’t even know the saviors he just wanted food from hill top to make a deal with them and also the saviors that they killed had family that what Negan said so Rick was kind of the bad guy.
@@jackmarshall3255 he knew they attacked Daryl. Abraham and Sasha on the road and for our boy Rick. That's enough, he ain't the bad guy, those who make Rick act like this are the bad guys
Morales was really the first person (besides finding Garcia) to make Rick realize what he has become. His face when Morales says officer friendly died somewhere along with his family is a face of pure realization.
This episode always had me conflicted especially after it first aired. I still feel like it’s what had to be done. They had to make the first move grant it wasn’t by any means morally right but it’s the world they live in. Once we got a glimpse of the wall with the pictures of all the smashed in heads it helped me feel okay with the decision Rick made.
Japan also did a preemptive first move and look what that did to them
Rick did the same and got fucked by negan 🥶
@@CoFFee-uw5sv not the same at alllllll. not even close
@@CoFFee-uw5sv bruh look at why they did the forst move. It's so different it's laughable. But yes Japan who allied with Nazis is comparable to ricks group.
I still 110% agree with Ricks intentions here. Saviors would have came knocking one day and War was inevitable. The only problem I have with Ricks offense is his execution.
If you're going to kill em all. Then you actually are going to have to kill them all lol if you can't then don't even bother. But they were to ignorant which was there biggest downfall. Offense is great in a apocalyptic situation like there's. But there strategy and plan was awful. You need to be smart enough to know you have the power do what Rick and company wanted to do. But little did they know they were not as powerful as they thought. There was someone bigger and badder out there.
For their defense one could say that Negan's group was absurd. 500 Saviors could never survive by taking food away from two small communities of 50-100 people. Their strategy to split up their fighters in useless outposts of 20-40 people was also absurd. Of course they would deploy those fighters in Hilltop and not in a satellite station in the middle of nowhere. So the assumption that this is their main base was logical.
I 100% agree with you, their issue was underestimating who they're dealing with and thinking that outpost was all of them. I don't think trying to kill slavers that control the entire surrounding area by force is a bad act at all.
I can see where Rick was coming from despite his actions, he and the group have been threatened so many times by different communities and imagine being in his position where people are relying on you and you have to try and protect everyone.
In hindsight, the same thing would have happened to Alexandria whether it attacked the Saviors first or not. The whole point of the show all along was that you can do terrible things and still be a good person. It's not what you do but why you do it and what the alternative seems to be at the time.
They Saviors were still far more ruthless and wonton killers than Rick and his group, so I don't think this episode necessarily makes them killers as they were doing what they thought would stop the Saviors from coming and killing them off.
I completely understand what Ricks thinking was because a good portion of the groups they had met before the saviors had used force to take what they had, try to kill them, and betrayed their trust and tried to kill them so Rick sensing a new threat didn’t want to try reasoning with them because that rarely worked in the past.
And wouldn't have worked this time.
"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. "
The redemption of Eugene Porter
How “Wrath” could have been the perfect ending for TWD
Understanding the Governor
The conflict between Carl and Ron
The end of King Ezekiel’s legacy
How Beth’s death changed Rick’s group
How Rick’s group changed at Alexandria
Similarities between characters of TWD and Fear (Alicia and Carl)
How “One More” was a reminder for TWD
Are these video ideas
@@tylermoeser9557 yea
How Hearshel Death Changed Rick Grimes
My girlfriend said the same thing about wrath right after we watched it and honestly I really think in a world where that was the ending people would have a lot more respect for twd than they do now.
@@ericgarcia5706 yes That episode would be the perfect ending better than the ending that We got, now that i think about it
The reason I never saw "The Group" as bad guys or villains is that they never killed innocent people. Sure RIck went like "we'll take Alexandria if needed" but I don't think he meant "we'll kill everyone and keep the town". Even if the saviors saw them as the bad guys, they were the ones who were tormenting and forcing tribute from other communities so I do believe that the "The Group" trying to wipe them out wasn't a moraly dubious move.
But every group they come across is "bad" and they always find a way to convince themselves what they are doing is right. They have made Alexandria a ruined and run down place and probably most of the original residents are dead.
More like this was the group we followed and latched on to.
@@aceb4634 did Rick's group go around trying to kill innocent people all the time? This whole " it was just the group we followed" sounds great but through all the moral struggles the group never seems evil whatsoever not always the "good guys" but not the saviors lol "hey pay us tribute like we r the great khan"
@@aceb4634 if we followed the saviors we’d not see them as good guys. Rick’s group never went to a community. Forced said community to deliver half supplies every month and kill one of them.
@@aceb4634 yes because the show was about them.. what else is the audience suppose to do?
I love these walking dead videos! You put so much quality and thought with what you’re saying. The walking dead is my favorite show and I’m glad someone like you can put out top tier content.
Thank you very much!
Love the video and this is one of my favorite subjects: Was Rick's group bad? Personally, I say their descent started with the death of Dale who was the moral compass and likewise with the killing of Shane whose behavior was somewhat of a mirror showing them what they might become and therefore, due to the loss of both, stopped holding back. One note about the video, I wouldn't say Carol tried to stop Maggie from going in because she wanted her to be different. It was clear on several occasions that she did not want her on the mission because she was pregnant. Plain and simple. She wasn't at all worried about Maggie killing as she had already done it along with Carol plenty of times, not to mention Carol wasn't worried about anyone else in the group "being different". That.... just doesn't add up.
This episode was one of the best changes the show ever made to the source material. It really made you question the morality of the protagonists, pretty much for the first time in the show. I wish there was more of it, too often we're just expected to root for Rick or Daryl because they are cool or the good guys
I agree totally this episode
Swiftly showed the turn for the worse they slowly started to see the consequences for their actions leading up to the gruesome death of Glenn and Abraham
But we’re forgetting they loss Denise in the process which then lead to Daryl getting captured which then lead to Glenn getting captured and a few others which was just crazy considering
Glenn’s last thing he said to Daryl was
“It’s gonna go bad out here let’s go back home”
What I don’t like is that Negan’s group started everything! If any1 remembers Negan’s motorcycle group came at ricks group first when Daryl, Sasha and Abraham where in the truck during No Way Out…. I wonder y they never brought it up to begin with…? Would it be different if negan found out they came at ricks group first?
Wouldn't be different because that was their job. Kill one or two to send a message then make the rest work for em
might have been
"Why" not "y". GD
No, it wouldn’t be any different. And bringing it up would make no difference either, it doesn’t matter who attacked who first because people are already dead and revenge is all anyone cares about on this show. They aren’t going to say sorry for attacking them first even if they did bring it up.
That was a random encounter that ended in them being killed in self defence, the assault on the outpost was a well coordinated and planned attack that ended in all the Saviors being wiped out, many of them in their sleep. Big, big difference.
Rick's group started it.
Just thought I should mention how much I love this channel and the walking dead videos especially. Brightens my day every time I see a new upload.
Love to hear that my man. Glad I can help in some way ✊🏻
God, I wanna watch the whole show again
It always bothered me how Rick and company approached the Saviors by believing they were just a few people based on limited intel given by the Hilltop. If they had done some actual recognizance they would have noticed people coming and going to the Sancturary. Also the hilltop failed to include things like Carsons brother and that the Kingdom also served the saviors.
It's strange that Jesus who brought them to Hilltop didn't mention the Kingdom and proposed an alliance of the three communities.
@@elmercy4968 jesus didn't mention it because he made a deal with ezekiel to keep the Kingdom a secret
@@conspiracy_marine9238 But he brought them there later.
@@elmercy4968 that was out of necessity and he only mentioned the Kingdom after he started to trust rick and co more than "hey you guys are useful to me rn"
Yup. Rick was unprepared. However, he was anxious to take Negan down to protect his own group, so he planned out the attack without considering the situation further. This blows up then when his group is driving and being stopped by the Saviours multiple times. It was proof that Rick had messed up and was in way over his head.
I can't believe father Gabriel went from not killing a single walker to killing the saviours
Weird that I haven't watched TWD in years but still tune in for every one of your uploads, keep up the quality content!
Haha glad to hear that! I love reminding people about the good ol days of TWD
U really should watch it all. I think all the way up to season 10 is on Netflix and if you get a free AMC+ trial you can watch all episodes of season 11 that are out. Ngl it was definitely a chore sometimes to watch certain episodes but I don't regret it. Even if the series ends on a bad note, I still want to finish this series I started over 10 years ago
The symbology of Rick giving the speech convincing himself and the others to kill the saviors, while standing in front of a stained class window with a cross on it…..
Love video man and the use of the dead of the night round changing sound keep up the good work!👏🏻
This and Rick going against his word in season 8, made rick the bad guy. I really hated that they made glenn kill someone. I was hoping he wouldn't, but when he did and saw the pictures, I knew his fate was sealed
Your TWD analysis is amazing, love your channel. Keep it up
Awesome that this is your favorite episode. It’s probably in my top 10. Extremely underrated.
I feel the shift of the show in this episode. Your review is good and I now understand it better. Thank you 😊
Love watching your Vids! Thank you for makin' em!
This episode actually just proves shane is right. In this world "If y'all wanna live, if y'all wanna survive, you gotta fight for it!” “The right choice is the one that keeps us alive"
There is no good. There is no bad. Everyone is good. Everyone is bad. So none of it matters. All that matters is "are you alive"
great video. made me appreciate this show even more
I would love if you made a vid on Morgan's episode in season 6, here's not here. I think that is a seriously underated episode that shows Morgan's character development as a whole
The part where you were talking about Glenn taking a life was chilling. Those pictures; I had no idea he was looking at what would be his own demise.
Feels like I seen or heard this from u already. But I'll hear it again cause your narration is great! Lol
I never saw Rick’s group as the villains. The saviors already tried to kill Sasha and Aberham on the road and was going to make Dixon drive them back to their home to then force them into slavery. Not all the saviors where bad but if it weren’t for the people they forced into slavery they wouldn’t have what they had. Daryl and Maggie were the ones to suggest killing the saviors in exchange for food. And Glenn seeing all those pictures of smashed in heads? Wth! They took joy in violence and punishing people to do that they want. What I always thought Rick’s group did wrong was they all got way to cocky.
Bro those cookies that carol makes look SOOO BUSSIN I personally would pay a fortune for them
I am so happy you brought this episode up & I hope you bring the episode where Rick & Morgan slaughter the ex-saviors after lying to them about bringing them back & taking them in
Yo this really was an interesting episode. There was a different feeling to watching them go in and take charge. The episodes that followed is what solidified the feeling that they’re paying for what they did and I didn’t want to admit it at the time 😭
"We've seen Rick kill before but it's always been in a dire situation that had no other choice."
The handcuffed cop Rick ran over with his own car and then shot dead: What am I, chopped liver?
Being the villain has consequences. The consequences here being Rick brought unnecessary pain to his people before it shouldve happened. We lost Abe and Glenn early because of Rick's lack of forethought in this episode.
However, I think it brought good in the end. Because of this experienced, Rick toughened up a helluva lot and learned so much. Yes, it had a price, but it was worth it in the end.
i think it was also a great way of showing that rick isn't always right anymore. the first time we saw this is when they went to the CDC and he nearly got them all killed. from then on he basically made every call and all of them were correct. this was the first to show that he wasn't the unbreakable leader we thought he was.
No rick made the right call... losing 2 to take out 20 and their guns was worth it. They would of lost more people in a stand up fight
@@MikeSmith-vl5em I agree with it. Strategically it was an amazing decision. Had they not got captured by Negans whistling TWD wouldn’t be the same show at all !!!!!!
@@Zecron04 Ricks decisions were usually bad from the beginning. Going to Terminus for example. With the whole group and no one as back up if they get in trouble.
What do you think Negan would have done if Rick had waited around? Made him spaghetti? The saviors already tried killing people in his group and tried to get to his camp. Do you think what Negan did to seaside, hilltop the kingdom and all the other communities was ok?
Great analysis!
Rick is the MAN!!!!!! The show ain’t the same without him,he’s interesting & so damn badass at the same time.he’s a beast
Imagine being Glenn's first kill. Not the being killed part, but your roommate being some psycho that hangs up all those polaroids of bashed heads above their bed and you have to sleep next to that.
In spirit of Carol, I'm gonna learn how to gather the raw ingredients for cookies incase the apocalypse ever happens.
I know how to make them from scratch, I just need to know how to grow/ produce the ingredients from scratch
I agree this is my favourite episode as it focus is all on what it takes to survive. Before we had walkers as the main threat with different groups but this one stripped them all back to remind us that the people are the true monsters. The saviours sure were attacked and all but they weren't good guys at all. This was a group who faced others to do there bidding, kept photo of smashed heads and used the limited resources to grow drugs. They were always going to find Rick and this was the first time they knew the threat was coming and choose to do something about it. That is surviving in this world now and why I love it.
What I love so much about TWD (and especially this episode) that it presents the viewer with the reality of the human condition. There is good and bad in all of us, but most lean towards one or the other. Stressful situations and/or trauma can often lead to a temporary or even permanent switch to 'the other side' of morality. When watching TWD I often asked myself how I would have reacted in the situations depicted, and I simply was not able to come up with a clear answer. Ignoring the extremes, there is not really a 'good' or a 'bad' person.
Saw this episode back in the day, never really thought about it as I just saw it as another episode out of many, but the head caving photos is creepy foreshadowing which went over my head and it later results in Negan really striking back in revenge, possibly the first real conflict between the two groups which could've been avoided if they went about it another way?
This may have been the most bearded walkers we have seen on the show and they came all in one episode lol. A little bit silly, but an otherwise excellent episode. Season six was so incredible.
Great video!! Subscribed!!! That Simple.
I always wonder how things might have turned out if Dwight and Sherry had decided to go back to Alexandria with Daryl, Sasha and Abraham in the first place. Dwight, Sherry and her doomed sister Tina are perfect examples of what Negan does to break people.
True, they were dumb asf, Daryl was one of the best people to trust and bring them back to their safe-zone, but Dwight and Sherry only thought of themselves and stole his ride. Not only did they fail to survive, but Dwight got burned and was now mistrusted by the Saviors and Daryl(Extending to the Alexandrians) for the future.
Great video as usual
Rick and his group have always been the good guys. Doing anything necessary to protect your family and loved ones isn’t evil or bad. Instead he should be praised for how valiantly he defended his family and group. And it was the right call to raid that compound. Strike first before they know who you are.
I loved this.. Analysis of the episode. I wouldn't say this is one of my favorites, but what I love is the consistency of the writers in comparison to my favorite "Judge, Jury, Executioner." The two epiaodes echo each well.
Dale becomes terrified that the group is losing their morality.. he begs everyone in the group to vote to save the life of Randall, a boy running with another group. Rick's group saves when he's abandoned by his own group, worried he'll eventually run back to his friends and reveal their location. During a vote on the situation, Rick, Shane, and the group vote to kill him. Dale is horrified by this and accuses the group of losing their humanity.. almost immediately after this scene, Dale is jumped by a walker and killed. His death represents the groups loss of humanity..
In this episode, Glenn reminding the audience that he hasn't killed anyone, makes him a representative of innocence. Though he lives longer than Dale, to allow as you put it to show the aftermath of that, he doesn't have to live without his innocence very long.
These episodes are peak writing. The writers know what they are doing, and it makes for some epic television!
I wouldn't go so far as to say this is the episode that they became villains just that it's the episode where Shane was proven right ( to a certain degree). While we can make the argument that Negan had a point about the Saviors at the out post having friends and family, none of that would've happened if Negan wasn't a vicious tyrannical bandit. It's not like the group came up on another survival group and attacked without rhyme or reason, Hilltop and the Kingdom described how the saviors operates and Rick decided to go on the offense. There wouldn't have been any negotiations because negan doesn't negotiate, had Rick's group went on the defense and waited till the Saviors attacked, the outcome would've still been the same except more people would've died during Negan's assault and both Glenn and Abraham would still be made examples off.
To be honest I still view what rick and the group did here as self defense and not as them becoming villains.
It's not your simple cut and dry self defense but ricks reasoning made perfect sense, the saviors had already previously almost killed daryl Sasha and Abraham and likely would have found Alexandria sooner or later so they did the smart thing and struck fkrst
Straight up dude. The vid is way too oversimplified and they don't even come close to giving an argument - just saying "they did stuff" isn't really supporting their take. They didn't explain how it makes them the bad guys whatsoever. Overall, a huge group has enslaved a bunch of communities and if they don't bow down they will be killed one by one until they do, the only thing that's gonna stop that is a bigger group coming in to take them out or make them surrender, which is what ended up happening in the end. It's just so reductive how he's portraying it dude. It's filled with essentially non sequiturs
Yo new the the channel love the content bro keep it up 👍
if it was a series about the saviors, watching them all die to ricks group would be heartbreaking af.
Have you done a video on "what if Rick didn't attack the compound?" Or anything along those lines? That'd be cool, I love these videos keep it up
An excellent episode, every aspect is amazing, great character moments, really great action, and it creates conflict regarding how moral was what the did. Also when rick said: kill them all, just like the governor said during Too far gone, even tara reacts to that, it's magnific. Not my favourite episode, but top 20 easily.
Nah. They knew the group was going to cause problems for their group, so they had to take them out. They had a reason to go in there and take those people out, they didn't just do it for nothing
I don’t think this made them the bad guys. Their first interaction with the Saviors was hostile and Sasha, Abraham, and Daryl had to kill them in self-defense. They also learn from Jesus and hill-too that the Saviors enslave other groups and kill innocents. If the Saviors found Alexandria they would undoubtedly kill them in droves, force them to pay tribute, and enslave them. This attack was a way to get an edge over the Saviors because conflict with them was inevitable. Waiting around to be discovered by Negan’s men would’ve been way worse than attacking them first. Their behavior with other communities proves that they cannot simply “be talked to” like Morgan was suggesting
I wouldn’t say they were villains. It pushed the show into the many gray areas that only Rick and a few others always had to handle.
i actually disagree about them killing for no reason. this isn’t just about abraham and glenn: alexandria went to kill the saviors because they were ruining the hilltop’s well-being. the saviors were constantly hurting people for only a few peoples benefit and to increase negan’s power. they DO need to kill all the saviors-they are all in a cult, and harm whenever they think is “needed” to take what they please.
Might be an unpopular opinion but I thought this episode was when the show started to really go off the rails. Killing off so many saviors before Negan was even introduced did not set them up as formidable villains from a story perspective. It also wasn’t believable that the Alexandria/hilltop groups would continue to follow a leader like Rick after so many mistakes that inadvertently started a full on war just because he heard another group happened to exist in the area.
Who knew skinny jeans would be so popular at the end of the world.haha
This outpost needed to go. Honestly they have pictures of people with their heads bashed in hung up on the wall they sleep by 🤦🏾♂️ yes it’s wrong to kill but when u have psychopaths like them walking around you have to kill them. The saviors don’t have morals or human feelings anymore. That’s what the show tried to portray for the saviors. Ricks group was always the good guys cuz they actually regret taking lives and get traumatized because of it. Just look at Rick everytime he takes a life his face shows it all
''This is what they're telling themselves in order to follow through with their actions.'' And they are right. If it wasn't the Saviors, it'd be the Alexandrians. You're viewing this from a soft, suburban life. Pure moral grandstanding. The Saviors literally roll up on you, bash one of your members' heads in, and they take ''half'' of everything you have, which as Negan says isn't half, but whatever he says it is. It's closer to 85% of everything you have, all guns included, so that you can NEVER fight back again. Pure oppressive, psychopathic tyranny. Every single Savior who got murked in his sleep deserved worse than such a peaceful death. It didn't make Rick's groups the bad guys. It was their first act of heroism and bravery.
Somewhere in the zombie hereafter Shanes saying "knew Rick had it in him"
I have not seen the latest seasons, I stopped watching when Andrew Lincoln left the show. So perhaps this is explained better in the actual show than how I've seen everyone summarize it, but Negan's justification for killing Glenn and Abraham is a steaming pile of BS and I don't think there's any presentation of it that I would find palatable.
Our group struggled with taking human lives, whereas Negan and the Saviors *revel* in it. Negan *loved* every second of having them all on their knees, terrified. He was having fun with it. He was absolutely giddy and cracking jokes and *gleefully* murdered people. He only had to kill one to send the message, but he killed two. Framing that as "mercy", because the Saviors that died had families too, in an unironic way is unfuriating to the highest degree.
Knowing this is the direction the show went in, made me never want to even try the "post-Rick seasons". I hope a character at least calls Negan out on this BS, but I have a feeling they just swallow it because the writers thought they did something deep and clever there.
My favorites are "too far gone" "what happened and what's going on" where tyreece dies the season 8 finale & a few others like ricks last episode & the season 7 premier plus the one where Rick keeps his promise with the red machete
Here's the thing. Everyone acts like killing the saviours is what caused the death of 2 members
Whether they cleared out the outpost or not. Negan would of shown up to their settlement one day.
He would kill a member
Someone would retaliate (probs daryl again)
Negan would kill a 2nd member
Then the events of the walking dead would continue as normal.
The only reason everyone regrets this is because of the guilt and negan constantly acting like he wasn't going to already do what he did when he found them. I'm not saying it was a morally good move, but by the time the group had found out about negan it was already to late and his 'trade offer' was at thus point inevitable
Why couldn't Rick just let the saviors rape, pillage, steal and kill in peace 😭
Negan is against rape and everyone knows civilizations always start with a brutal dictator.
@@Jerry-jo6dn but the individual saviors weren't, and Negan raped himself. What do you think would have happened if his "wives" refused his wishes?
One thing ive learned is that theres no good guys in war. Ever. Its easy for those who don’t experience it, which is the majority of people, to critique what goes on. In the end what rick did was the only real option. Similar to the thought behind pearl harbor. Sneak the enemy and hope you cripple them before they can amass against you. The things that go on on and around the battlefield would horrify the common person. I don’t believe theres any evil just people trying to survive in their camps.
Do a video on Daryl's relationships with Beth and Carol
I just rewatched 4x12 and its honestly interesting when Daryl removes his cold facade and becomes emotional
After watching the series again this episode hits different. They should’ve never attacked the post it made me look at the group different. They were comfortable and always winning and boom they got humbled quick
If it was the right decision to decimate the satellite outpost is a different question, but it's stupid to portray the group like all out villains. Dwight is a perfect example of what you have to do to be an active member of the saviours, not just a worker, and these people acted purely out of self-interest, giving up their souls for their own benefit, whilst making life considerably harder for other communities.
There is no alternate perspective that could make those saviours good people. Having a family doesn't equal being a good person.
And don't forget that Negan purposfully chooses people who he knows have that certain merciless something in them. He has no use for nice people, cause that's not how he runs his "empire".
Love the content 🎉🎉
How proudly they decorated their rooms with the photos of the people who got their craniums bashed in, made this completely justified to me.
One of the most underrated episodes and seasons in the show easily
Didn't this squabble with the saviors start at the Hilltop, with Alexandria desperate for food and supplies and Hilltop having plenty.
Daryl tells Gregory and Jesus that they'll "wipe out the saviors" if they hook them up with food and supplies, specifically he said they want "one of them cows".
Rick later tries to justify the whole "kill them before they kill us" thing.
The whole damn thing started over a cow :(
Technically it started on the road when Little Timmy and the dick brigade tried to rob Daryl, Sasha, and Abraham. Not to mention they were either going to kill Abraham or kill someone at Alexandria once they were taken back there.
Oh man can't wait to watch this episode I'm on season six for this month next is season seven.
In the apocalypse there really is no good guys or bad guys it all comes down to survival
For me I don't think it was a way for Rick and Co to be villains, but rather a tactic to survive. Negan and the saviors attacked Hill top and Rick was concerned that Negan would also attack Alexandrier in the same way. Maybe Daryl and Glenn could have gone to the saviors hideout and spied on them to see what they were up to to be prepared instead, being as they were both stealthy.
Great vid
Rick finally came to his senses, but wasn't thinking big-picture. You always do reconnaissance, they really didn't do that; and they about got themselves wiped out.
Shane might have been coarse, irritating at times, and callus; but he wouldn't have lost the prison so easily, and he wouldn't have gone into the radio station without looking around. Rick keeps thinking about Shane, not only because he feels guilty about killing him, but he also realizes that Shane was right.
The "Saviors" were bad news, and needed dealt with, Rick just went ahead without doing any real research.
dude, just heard that boss hog is really the good guy. we like to root for villains, fight club anyone ?
I have said the exact same thing in the past! Every time I said “If you look at it from the Saviors’ point of view, our hero’s are the bad guys” and I always get the stink eye 😒
the saviors were a group who demanded supplies from communities and terrorised them, threatening to kill them if they didn't kneel, worship them and deliver what they wanted. definitely not the good guys no matter whose perspective its from
Actually if u think about it who came @ who first? Negan’s group came @ ricks group in no way out w the motorcycle gang… y wasn’t it brought up to Negan’s attention ever? It could’ve been brought up during the line up of Glenn’s and Abraham’s death, Daryl coulda spoken up “hey u guys came at us first, what would u guys do?” Sasha and Abraham coulda spoken up too but for whatever reason it didn’t? Rick was never out there looking for problems like how the motorcycle gang came looking when they stopped the truck Daryl was driving.
@@dr.fuckmaster295 even then it's like they asked for stuff and could have killed like 2 people vs killing over 50 people because of that and hoping to wipe them out.
Rick’s Group weren’t the villains or morally wrong for doing this. The Saviors already came across 3 members of Rick’s group and nearly killed them. They’ve shown that they are willing to kill to get what they want and it didn’t matter who was facing their guns either.
It's more than they deserved. Forget about what the Saviors did to Rick's group, what about Hill Top? The Kingdom? Oceanside. Clearly forgetting the part where they rounded up all the men from Oceanside and killed them.