This. It's heartbreaking to see how often money and ego gets in the way of good art nowadays. The industry is killing the most important thing : the beauty of telling a story. As a writer, it breaks my heart.
I once thought Jon will forever be known for playing Shane in TWD. But him as Frank Castle in DD and Punisher is my favourite character of all time, hands down.
Let's not forget Frank Darabont also wrote and directed The Shawshank Redemption, The Green Mile and The Mist. Three all time classics in less than 15 years.The man knows what he's doing.
You guys aren't wrong about Frank and the earlier seasons of TWD. Me and my friend used to sit with a box of beers and binge the season 1 DVD regularly. Not just the writing, but the overall cinematography of that first season was spectacular. That first season is definitely one of the best pieces of television out there and it's awesome that you both got to be a part of it, what a legacy.
100%, I remember I was only 13 when the first season came out, but I loved it, season 2 after Frank was fired, I could tell even at that age that something was off and just eventually stopped watching
The first season was so fucking beautifully horrific. The cinematography was next level. The way they made the dead feel so oppressive and their future so bleak but still somehow hopeful, idk, it was special. Something about the enduring human spirit was captured in that season that may be one of the best examples anywhere in tv history.
@@bighands69 I hope she's not one of these "pro choice" child killers. Or a anti 2A nut job. She was however well spoken and had big balls for standing up for the writer.
@@mikehawk6563 She absolutely IS a pro-choice woman, and anyone worth a damn is, too. The fact that there are little pricks like you that feel ALL pregnant little girls and women, no matter what she wants and no matter how she got that way, and no matter what happens to her, she should be forced to carry a fetus and birth a child. I don’t hate anyone, but you people?? Oh, Jesus, I LOATHE you people. You mention that we (women) should have no choice when it comes to our bodies, our life, our health, and our future, and you mention fucking guns. Like, just tell us you have a micro penis and Mommy issues without actually telling us. I had an abortion 21 years ago, and every day, I thank God that I had that choice and I had that access to safe, legal abortion. It was either terminate or end my own life. I am dead serious. I was so young and in a terribly abusive relationship. I have assorted autoimmune health issues, too. You won’t care about any of this and you’ll stay an ignorant misogynist who hates women, so I don’t know why I’m even bothering to reason with you.
@@bighands69 Whining? Please explain to me how you would feel if the government forced you to carry a parasite and give birth. That’s the most unconstitutional, cruel, misogynistic bullshit I’ve ever heard, and it’s despicable. I don’t care who reads this- I’m back living in the red state where I had my abortion 21 years ago. I am ashamed of my state and most of the south. This is outrageous and it’s going to harm and kill so many children and women. It is already costing ACTUAL lives. Zygotes and fetuses don’t count.
As much as I love The Walking Dead and how it has grown, Frank Darabont being fired was the start of many bad decisions from AMC on their leading franchise. They keep taking away money from the show and keep making poor choices. I saw Frank's letters and emails to AMC and his passion and rage against their dumb choices were frightening, he was so dedicated to the show. So seeing these two talk about standing with him was just... it really brought a smile to my face.
@The Rue Morgue it's because they're programmed to say that. They/she doesn't have the same real world interactions frank and the AMC people have had so they/she makes decisions in their safety bubble that make sense to it. It said that just to be safe and inclusive to something... gets a bit confusing the more you break down the psyche of that thing. It understands nothing past what some hive mind thinks
@The Rue Morgue its not just that either, he got fired just before he got any retirement funds or shares in the show. it was intentional so they could profit from what he created its messed up
@@mattrice3993 i was telling myself the same thing the other day. I think he could've been the one taking the first blow instead of Abraham after some badass scenes.
Dale’s line “this group is broken” is all the more meaningful now as it’s probably a nod to the drawing lines over the actors’ decision to or not to fight for darabont. Especially as Jeffrey Demunn asked to be written out after Darabont’s firing. Although Shane lived much longer than his comic counterpart, I imagine as Bernthal’s performance was so good they would have kept him on longer if not for this feud. I also would have liked to see more of Sarah as Lori as she is a brilliant actress but was a hated character and died within the same part of the story as her character did.
Recently finished all 11 seasons of TWD and man can you see the difference when you watch them back to back like that. Seasons 1 and 2 are masterpieces and going to the later ones felt like homework just to finish.
season 9-11 was definitely not homework to finish, and I felt like season 7 and 8 with the saviours was interesting enough to actually enjoy it, season 9-11 had so much action packed moments that I also loved it. Honestly I’m just not a hateful type of person or a critique and I have a ton of respect for all the directors
I’m getting into the walking dead with my gf we are currently on season two last 2 ep. Can one of you guys tell me where it gets like not good anymore or dull story wise? I hear everyone saying “the walking dead fell off and blah”
@@ItsJustAndyyyummmm it depends. Because some parts I disagreed when people were saying “it fell off”. I recommend just watching it all with the mindset that it’s a new world and the morals of this world don’t apply. I guess where it “fell off” for me was mid season of 7 to the end of season 9. Then season 10 and 11 pick back up and idk if you know the news but the TWD universe is expanding! I also recommend watching the spin-offs as well. They are all starting to connect and I was mind blown. I hope you both enjoy the walking dead universe!
I loved season 3 with the governor though, and brutal rick with the cannibals was awesome in season 5. Once they got to woodbury and then negan and the saviors it went completely downhill and they tried to make it a family show with the dumb kids and goofy characters trying to be funny
Jon……. If your reading this…… this podcast is Dope AF. Gritty and honest. Hard qualities to manufacture. Totally genuine. Gotta budget to get the Patreon now.
Only issue I have with this podcast is he should allow his guest to speak a little more and keep his questions concise and not go to Chicago with it. But I love it overall
@@angelrambojr4587 I believe Jon will figure it out. He probably doing that cause he Is just as excited as his audience so he geeked and don't realize it yet
@@angelrambojr4587 When you have a friend talking about something tough you were involved in, thats natural. Jon made her more comfortable. They are talking and we get to listen. I think he should be real, do and say whatever he wants.
Shane was one of the best characters in TWD. Jon Bernthal killed that role. Would have been amazing if Shane left the group with Andrea and reintroduced in the later seasons.
Knowing how everything went I feel Rick and Shane would’ve crossed path again eventually and Rick would probably kill him still especially if it was like season 5-6 Rick
I’m glad they spoke about this together bc it was painfully obvious to the entire world how the script for twd started getting worse once he was fired.
*Season 2, was meant to open* with Sam Witwer (Starkiller, Deacon St. John) as an army officer watching law and order break down.. before he is bitten, watches his commanding officer go from a Battle Hardened Badass to scared and hopeless as he watches him commit suicide by the end of the episode.. only for him to die in the tank.. and provide a backstory for many other characters - as well as - the grenade that saves everyone’s lives.. THAT WAS EPISODE ONE ☝🏽 instead we got an entire season set on a farm - which originally wasn’t even the initial idea.
It was clearly the idea since Frank wrote those scripts. He might've done things differently if he had more funding, but season 2 was still Frank's baby.
@@firstlast9846 I imagine most if season 2 still originated from Frank's rough drafts atleast. If not, fuck Frank. My favorite scenes from the first two seasons are the barn scene and the drama between Rick and Shane in 2b. If that wasn't Frank's creation, I don't really care about him getting fired.
Don't forget that he was Darth Maul for a time too. Yet another iconic and tremendous role Witwer helped to flesh out and embody. That man also helped transform the show, The Clone Wars, the moment he first stepped onto screen as "The Son" in the Mortis arc, and then soon after as Maul in later episodes. And when TCW came back in 2020 to give us the true and rightful series conclusion, that it always deserved but hadn't got for several years after it was initially cancelled in 2014, Sam had reprised that role of Maul and the character was no less iconic and tremendous in that final season as well. Hell, he took the character of Maul to even NEWER heights in the final season! The man is a wealth of knowledge, both in Star Wars and out of, when you check out all the podcasts, interviews, panels, discussions, competitions and more that he has been involved with throughout the years. A legend. And for an original, planned main character-turned very brief sideline, afterthought extra on TWD, what Sam said on Frank Darabont's behalf as well was also pretty iconic and legendary in and of itself--also during a panel some odd years ago! :)
I will forever wonder what Frank Darabont would have done with this show. Drives me crazy that I'll never know how differently the story of TWD could have went. Something tells me it would have been glorious.
@@olestokke yeah I can see that. The prison just looked really grim and scary. Im sure no really prison actually looks that that though. Fun fact if you didnt already know, the prison is not real and they turned their studio into a prison.
You can tell shes older (than prison break 17yrs ago & walking dead 12yrs ago) but her skin is so clear wrinkle free and so youthful its like she hasnt. Shes beautiful either way
Considering that TWD was the biggest opportunity that many in the cast had ever received (at that point) I get the hesitancy in rocking the boat and standing with Darabont out of fear of losing their jobs BUT it is still disheartening to hear that very few actually were willing to stand up for what was right. The irony is, only Normal Reedus benefited from Darabont leaving (in my opinion) whereas everyone else got screwed on being sidelined/poor writing/killed off too early. I wonder if some of the cast, in hindsight, would have fought harder for Darabont if they knew what was to come.
Yep, the fact that the cast was mostly unknowns probably factored into their decision, especially since false rumours of being 'hard to work with' can seriously ruin an actor's career (for example Harvey Weinstein's victims). Still, it would have been a great gesture.
idk how to feel about this. First off Shane and Lori were supposed to get wacked early in the show anyways so idk how not protesting would have kept them on. Also Melissa McBride profiteered just as much as Norman. I love TWD so much that I would love to have seen an entire 11 seasons of Franks version but that'll never happen.
"The irony is, only Normal Reedus benefited from Darabont leaving" How so? I'm just curious. It does suck that more of the cast didn't stand up for Darabont, since he gave them a job....Heck, I think he specifically created the character of Daryl for Norman after he auditioned for Merle.
@@thedevilandgodareamongus9792 He still had quite an influence on the earlier seasons after he left due to the work done in advance so it's understandable that the quality remains pretty consistent for a while. I actually think they did a good job with 3-6. It lost it's footing after 6 IMO.
@@CucumberCheese haha I was talking about the episodes :P Season 2 is complete gold to me, season 3's complete chaos is something I don't think any show can come close to
You have to remember that most of that cast were unknowns at the time and now had a good job on a massive hit show. If they try and speak up, the fear is that not everyone will. They also were being led some lies on his firing. It sucks, but most of them just wanted to keep their jobs, as they weren’t sure they’d ever get a chance like this again. Most of Frank’s big alumni or supporters were killed off soon after, with Shane, Dale, Lori, and Andrea all killed by the end of season 3. They even wanted to kill Carol, another alumni of his, but chose T Dog last minute because he was late to set. All in all, we all wish that the whole cast stood up for him, but the show was still young and since AMC was already big without them, they were probably afraid they’d just be cancelled, or written off
You can absolutely see the difference from when Darabont wrote to when he departed. The first 2 seasons were horror at its finest and it was heartbreaking. The further you get, the less fear of the dead you have, and that shouldn't be the case.
@@kendallandrews8691 if you go back and watch the show the second season is actually one of its strongests in retrospect. Mainly because there have been a lot of terrible seasons since
@@kendallandrews8691I disagree 100%. Season 2 wasn’t only about the apocalypse and walkers, it was also about the group dynamics, the personal problems they had to deal with (lori being pregnant and scared, dale vs shane, rick vs shane relationship, etc..), the messages.., and encounters with walkers were rare (in a nice way where i literally gasped when i actually saw them, like the two walkers chasing sophia). Season 3 so far feels like it’s only about walkers and i just always know that at least 1 person is going to get bitten and die 😂 it’s predictable and feels more like a video game.
@@kendallandrews8691 I if I wanted to watch non stop action I would watch an action show, not a show focused on the character dyanamics, drama, the morality of their actions, and character development, which is the whole point of making a character study drama set in the zombie apocalypse. But sure, if that is what you expect out of this show, the other seasons are better I suppose.
Don’t get me wrong, seasons 3-8 were awesome (imo). But there was something so special about the first 2 seasons and now that I find out Frank Darabont was fired, the show’s shift in tone makes a lotta sense… 😔
Excellent, honest conversation. I admire the loyalty. Much respect to both of these actors. Love this. I will always support these two actors projects.
There’s something nostalgic when it comes to watching these interviews w/ Sarah and Norman. Makes me want to rewatch the first two seasons of TWD again.
Frank Darabont wrote the screenplays for both The Green Mile and Shawshank Redemption. Literally two of the greatest movies of all time. The only season I loved of the walking dead was season 1 and season 2 (some of it) but after that imo it just went downhill imo
@@michaelmcculloch5957 I was gonna say you could at least give some credit to the King himself since he actually wrote both books but then I saw ur 2nd comment lol.
Losing Darabont was basically suicide for the show. Darabont gave us The Shawshank for gods sake, best film in American history. His writing is divine.
I think that Sarah's analogies are very on point here. I think we've all been in that "Charge!" scenario before and it can only be described as if the floor beneath you just collapsed. Really disappointed at how few of the cast and crew actually had the guts to stand up for what's right. I imagine it'd be very difficult for AMC to resist the entire or at least majority of cast's demands to bring Frank back. If there were more actors like Jon, Sarah, and Jeffrey I think we'd have a better entertainment industry in which actors and creative visionaries have more bargaining power.
I've always said.... back in 2012 during the final episodes of season 2 that something felt off about the show. Once the news came out that Darabont was fired and replaced, it became clear that the show runners lost their best piece. Heard and Nicotero are proven, but do not have the experience that Darabont had. Gimple, ugh. Just look at his credits before he got The Walking Dead, he was unqualified. Also, now learning about actors being fired for sticking up for the man who loved the comics, believed in it to bring it to millions, brought them all on board, and gave AMC an amazing show alongside Breaking Bad... it upsets me to know a good chunk of the cast was killed off for their loyalty.
@@IamChris215 I stuck around waiting for Negan... and it was trying. The second bout with the Governor.... Terminus.... it was such slow build to situations that were easily resolved. Highly rated episodes involved a character death rather than character moments more often than not. Not all episode were terrible and some where great. But the spirit of the show changed drastically. Mishandled characters (do not even get me started on how poorly handled Tyrese was), obvious misdirects, iconic moments poorly translated... it was rough. I recall being at a bar that would show it live every week. Being there for the season 6 finale and 7 premiere was a delight to see them introduced a (clearly for TV, but handled as well as one could hope as cable still had not allowed full swearing) neutered Negan, giving us a shocking death for Abraham, and nailing Glen's perfectly... everyone was crying and upset and I was clapping. I got reinvested during that time, and was on board until the first few episodes of season 8. Since then I just read the recaps.
@@ChipJones421 I stopped at S8x01, but the issues that would eventually kill the series IMO, started in S4, really at the finale of S3, although S3 is really strong. TWD is known for bad finales and good openers, at least after S2 (which had the best finale IMO) but S3's finale was the first time something didn't feel right for me. Even so TWD was strong for years after that. S6 was the last good season. S7 was awful minus the first episode. Why do we talk so much about it? I myself, have left at least a couple dozen, if not more comments over the years basically ranting about the same things. Why? Love and appreciation, of course, but the latter is what is really important here. We appreciate the art we enjoyed, but we also appreciate what could've been. TWD could've been so much more if the tone and quality of the first two seasons was preserved, and perhaps the new Rick show will give us that, but I doubt it. At least we can alwaysTLOU might fill that void, but I doubt it, as most post-apocalypse connoisseurs already know that story and so it will just be treading old ground, albeit with a few amendments... and let's not even talk about Part 2... Anyhow God bless S1+2... S2B is my favourite and I still watch S1-6 (where they clear out the satellite station) every couple of years. I just pretend they went home and everything worked out there and then lol.
Frank honestly was the reason I tuned in for the premiere. When I saw that first trailer and saw one of my favorite directors doing television, I was definitely in. Shawshank, Green Mile, and The Mist are among my all time favorites
What a podcast. It's so strange seeing actors from a huge show, whom you've seen at comicon and TV and elsewhere talking about financial hardship/decisions. I guess we as the viewers always assume all these people are rockstars and live in mansions so big you could get lost in them, but that isn't always the case. It's amazing and humbling how real these interviews have been. Keep going Jon, you got something with this, I say that wholeheartidly. I'd love to be on this show too
Agreed - but their contracts were probably not as grand at first, and they left the show very early on - way before the huge success. It's unfortunate....
It's all relative. They're all rich, but no matter how much money you have, you look at your peers and think "I'm better than him at this job, I'm better than her, how are they living in a bigger house?"
@@sup9542 they might be rich compared to average people but they also have costs that average people don't have to pay, like security, lawyers, agent, etc which are necessary to keep them safe and working. Or they need to live somewhere that paparazzi can't constantly take pictures of them and their kids (gated community etc). And none of those things come cheap. Once you pay all that, it's not surprising that someone might be somewhat struggling financially, until you get another big break.
Frank is an incredible writer that would have kept TWD at A+ quality for years and years. It's a sin they fired him. It's sad to think of what an epic and incredible show TWD would have been consistently year after year had he been left on.
This is a trip! I literally just rewatched season 2 of TWD and to see these two together on screen is dope! No accents. No tension! Just talking. I enjoyed this so much.
When I think about TWD, I'm very fond of the early seasons. I miss Sarah Wayne Callies and Jon Bernthal's presences on the show. And I also miss the direction of Frank Darabont. He knew how to tell remarkable stories in the show. Sarah said it best, "No one writes like Frank Darabont." It is a shame he was fired. I was surprised to learn that Bernthal and Callies left the show because of it. I knew Jeffrey DeMunn left, but not them. I thought it was because their characters died where they needed to for the story. But man. I wonder what it would have been like if Darabont stayed on. It would have probably been an overall better received show. I do love what Scott Gimple has done for the season 4 and 5 storylines, particularly with Beth, but besides that, the show is unbearable now. If Darabont was still behind it, I don't think it would be this mediocre at all. We deserve better as Walking Dead fans. Not a bunch of spinoffs.
Jon Bernthal didn’t leave the show because of Frank being fired. His character was always supposed to die towards the end of season 2 at the hands of Rick. But yeah, Lori was written off because Sarah chose to speak up about Frank being fired and how bad of an idea it was.
Glenn Mazzara should have remained showrunner. Once Nicotero kept leeching more and more control, Mazzara was chased off. Every showrunner from there on out-Gimple, Kang, whatever-were just fanboys and fangirls ready to suck up to that Allman Brother-looking motherfucker and execute his vision. Nicotero did to TWD what Kevin Feige is doing to MARVEL. His likeness and his image. And it doesn’t work.
You both are amazing! I’ve been a Walking dead fan since the beginning when channel surfing and i accidently stubbled onto a car chase scene on AMC that ended with a cop getting shot, then waking up in a hospital in a different world!! I had no idea what i was watching when i stubbled upon it. It changed my life and my sense of adventure and imagination. The first 2...3 seasons have stuck with me and i still go back and watch them episode for episode just to enjoy what i gained from it years ago. I have followed the actors! Followed their careers! And am grateful for the art and experience they shared with all of us! Sarah, beautiful as ever....and you are definitly still crush worthy as ever!!😍 Jon, keep up the good work brother! The chanel has opened up subjects and outlets that need it. Thanks for keeping it real Brother!🤙🤜!
@Joe T bro the writing in s3 was still up to par with s2,1 sometimes way better even. That Morgan episode is such an amazingly written episode that it got a 9/10 and it basically had no action whatsoever. Perfectly executed drama as always!
The show did still manage to keep well after Darabont, but I guarantee that slump from 7-8 would not have happened if he was on board til then. It picked up massively in 9 and 10, but I do wonder what sort of show we would have had For one, we would have got Dale Horvath for longer! One of the best characters on the show, and written out sooner than he should have been.
Keep well? The show was mid at best (and it achieved mid very infrequently) past the first season. Darabont was what made season 1 so great, and it never got close to season one throughout the rest of it's run
They both did amazing jobs taking those characters to their final moments and I'll always remember those episodes. It was a magical time. Also the podcast is awesome, keep doing your thing Mr. Bernthal.
Still a huge fan of TWD but the first couple seasons make me feel really nostalgic! Wish their characters could've lasted another season or two. Shane is still one of my favorites in the entire series & glad Jon could come back for the S9 flashback with Rick.
@@colee61200 they have been mediocre not great at all. It’s been predictable writing and milked the universe with these crappy spin-offs. They have pretty much told us who lives before the show has even ended
This interview brings so much nostalgia. I’ve always wanted for Shane character to stay in the show because of how good is the acting of Jon. Besides as the show progresses we can see Rick slowly becoming who Shane was already. Shane would have been a great leader
Hahaha Shane wouldve been a great leader?? Shane’s a great character and I wish they kept him but he was a psychopath. I wish they just didn’t make him a psychopath in the first place and him and Rick could’ve led the show. But they turned him into a dog with rabies who needed to be put down
Season 1 is literally the best and most individually complete season of the show. All the way down to the ending as they ride away from the destroyed cdc into the unknown. Frank did that.
I would have loved to see her stick around on TWD but Colony was an epic show. She was fantastic in that. With that said the first few seasons of TWD with Frank D. were done so masterfully. The writing and producing brought on a feeling of nostalgia and made you feel so immersed in the show. It's sad to say but that level of productuon is gone.
It was great up to season 5 . Actually had the most top tuned in viewership on the show up to 5 and then it started declining. Season 5 got very action packed and dark for character development especially for rick wich was the best version of himself . He was finally the Shane that everyone wanted him to be like as a badass . Killing people left and right without any hesitation and killing cannibals trying to eat everyone in season 5 wich got more crazy with other stuff happening. Seasons 1 & 2 will always be the best and ogs but up to season 5 was great for the shows prime . Rick was weak and inexperienced in the first two seasons of the show and overtime after Shane being gone he ended up evolving into being like him to survive the worser threats of the show to come in the apocalypse . Besides shows and movies with obviously needing great writing to make them great most importantly, when it comes to a zombie movie or show like the walking dead no matter what people tend to easily stop watching to hate it after there favorite character dies
@@CHRISTALGIA Yeah I totally agree I was fully committed to watching up to S5 or 6 then slowly started losing interest. I watched those seasons so many times and still pick up parts I didn't catch everything I rewatch. Idk what it was about the earlier seasons but the cinematography was just so good man. I think some of it was the grainy aspect it had. I just can't seem to find that level of quality in TV shows anymore. For me personally, the show Lost gave me the same sort of vibes. But either way I'll still tune back in to TWD and watch till the end. Did you ever get into fear TWD or the other spin offs? I never really could get into them.
The first two seasons were always my favourites, to this day. Even if they did make a number of mistakes with the zombies in the early days. They learned, though.
I completely agree that getting rid of DARABONT was the worst thing to happen to THE WALKING DEAD (TV SERIES). But I do think it's a bit unfair to act as if he was the ONLY or MAJOR mind behind it. ROBERT KIRKMAN wrote the amazing comic that inspired Darabont's wonderful adaptation. I'd say you needed both to really make the show sing. And losing the cinematic half to that equation really sank the series. If only they'd kept Darabont's cinematic instincts and willingness to diverge from the source material with Kirkman's workman-like writer brain (he's so prolific) with his in depth knowledge of the world and tone he'd created, you'd have an all-timer series. So much of it needed those two minds in tandem, and the ppl who replaced Darabont (who weirdly were not Kirkman) just weren't as sophisticated storytellers.
They don't realize that their characters died in the comics even earlier than that of the show and Shane's arc was done way better and stretched out longer than the comics, so them going to war and defending Frank I think had no impact on why they were killed off.
I love you both! Great actors, you gave your all on The Walking Dead, and Frank was the best for this show, I know this because after the second season, which was the best of the show, with all those amazing features and the perfect plot involving Lori, Rick and Shane the series has never been the same, it doesn't have the same soul as the first two seasons. Congratulations to Sarah for having shown her indignation with Frank's dismissal, and congratulations to both of them for the great work they did in this series, it had soul and competence, you are great actors, I love you both! 😘😉
And also, to continue Sarah's thoughts, what if you didn't speak up and still got wrote off anyway? At least you fought for what you believed in. Cool conversation, gotta love this show.
@@breht oh interesting! I just got into comics, having bought my first one today actually: The Killing Joke. A lotta people were recommending me TWD comics too, so I consider your comment a sign to follow through on that 🤝
@@breht ahahah no worries - I'm finding it's a normal thing for comic tradition haha. And righteous! I'm stoked, man. Feels like I'm opening a door into a magical world.
@Joe Brandon exactly they weren't supposed to kill off Sophia. She was supposed to be Carl's love interests and the fact that fact that Sarah, Jon, and Andrew were marketed as the leads, yeah it was personally. They were sending a message when they killed them off.
Jon ur prolly my fav actor. U played Shane perfectly. Couldn’t be even a tiny bit better. Same goes for Sarah. U both helped make The Walking Dead what it’s meant to be
I mean you two did get the BEST deaths in the series no doubt. The scene at the farm where jons character is revealed as a zombie with a hoard of zombies following him in the darkness was pure horifying art. And dont get me started on Sarah's death/birthing scene! that scene was absolutely beautiful and scary and gut wrenching. And you guys have slayed the game after leaving the show. And the Punisher is one of my favourite shows of all time. The scene where you fuck the guys up in the gym is cinematography magic for the soul.
@GREEN Well Andrew wanted more time with his family. I get it, why did he not do it sooner rather than later if he felt that way but that was the decision he chose.
Jesus, I want more real open conversations like this from famous folk. Sheds a very enlightening view on the industry and things that just go on, that we do know happen, but it’s never really discussed.
Man that's tough to hear about their time on season 1 knowing they could have possibly remained longer on the show. Also just how different the show had been if Darabont wasn't fired.
They wouldn’t of stayed on the show longer. Shane’s death is the exact same in the comics and Lori died at a perfect time when she wasn’t needed anymore.
@@TheMikey2207frank wanted to keep lori and sarah actually said she thought she needed to go to serve the story. But tbh the characters in s1 were so much more interesting. We cared about them surviving and killing them all off in quick succession was a bad move. There was so much more story they could have had with shane and lori. Its like they wanted to show there were no sacred characters to show the audience others were in real danger. But in reality they just killed all the people we built a relationship with & thats why people like norman & melissa are still the most beloved because theyve been there that long people are attached. If they killed rick michonne daryl or carol people would kick off. I dont think there would be the same level of outcry if it was any other character that appeared after s3 except judith. I mean look at glenn. Everyone cared about him. Abe never really even gets a mention even tho he was killed the same way.
@Joe Brandon in my opinion following the comics with Shane and Lori was best. I love the characters and Shane is one of my all time favourites in the show but he needed to die at the end of season 2 and Lori needed to die in season 3. Both are great characters that left you wanting more. It’s the walking dead, not everybody can and should survive. Shane was quickly set up in S2 to be the “villain” of the season and Rick killing him was best for the story as without him killing Shane he wouldn’t of fought the Governor or the termites and became the badass we all love now. Same with Lori, her death allowed Rick to move on and eventually find love with Michonne. It wouldn’t of been great if she survived to terminus or Alexandria. They are great characters played by a great actor and actress but their characters died at the right times.
It is so great to hear behind the curtain thoughts of the actor/actress about what went down. All the more respect for both of them to backing they loved. The beauty of it is that they went out when the show was so excellent vs what it has become. I still want to see Jon B as more of The Punisher. I think he is the perfect actor for it and I can't wait to see him on screen again!!
This just popped in my feed - extraordinary interview and seeing the folks behind Lori and Shane together again... perspective on the start and backgrounder on firing of Darabont. Amazing.
SOMEONE give Sarah Wayne Callies a lead role again. Showrunner, Producers, Casting Directors, please look at the Shows she has led, integrity and spark in every single lead. She's Awesome to me x!
But her final scene is also stupid. The zombie completely consumes here?! She’s dead. I don’t remember seeing zombie ear any other dead things they didn’t kill. Just dumb. Horribly dumb. Kirkman ruined his own show.
There for sure was a difference in the seasons, but I never understood why I didn't feel as strongly about walking dead as I did before. Love the depth and learning from the podcast!
It's a classic move. Let a major creative force like Frank Darabont get something off the ground and then the studio steps in, fires him, and tries to assembly line it. The Walking Dead remained good solely because the cast that Frank had picked held it together. When they started picking them off there really wasn't anyone to take their place.
Good stuff. Seeing these two takes me back to when that next Walking Dead episode couldn't come soon enough. Amazing show and Shane is forever my dude, flaws and all.
Both of these talents are true real ones. Had the privilege of meeting Jon 10 years ago. We talked about his alternate ending pitch for Shane, which is fantastic. If y'all don't know the story, check it out. Frank getting canned was the beginning of the end for The Walking Dead. Some people loved what came after... For me, it all went down hill. Things in season 2 got changed etc etc... Frank would've done so much better with the show... Makes you wonder what all would've happened... who wouldve stuck around longer and visa versa etc... it's a real shame. Glad to see that he won his financial battle with amc in the long run though.
While I agree with the general sentiments of what she said, I don't think she got written off the show for voicing her objections; Lori did die during the prison arc, a different death that the TV show but around the same time.
Dude, Jon became one of my favorite actors. His rawness and ability to get so deep and serious is so insane. His acting gives me the chills & is so believable.
Such a shame that Darabont was fired,the show really went downhill after he wasn't on it anymore.AMC really took so so much bad decisions with everything,and the first very very bad decision that started it all,was killing off Sophia for no reason,though I agree that season 1 had some unnecesary deaths like Jacqui or Maaaybe Amy.
It's interesting to hear so many years on what happened - TWD would have been a different beast if Frank Darabont was still on board. Impressed that Jon and Sarah went to bat for him.
I think you two did the right thing. I relate a lot to what was discussed and just having a reminder of shared company, rejuvenates determination to keep steering the spirit the right way. Eventually someone inspired to take a stand against the machine will get a win
I didn’t really like her character that much but she definitely played Lori well she’s a good actor and seems like a cool person it’s always interesting to hear this kind of stuff from behind the scenes
You stood up for Frank Darabont and loyalty, but you also stood up for authentic storytelling and quality art. And that is everything.
This. It's heartbreaking to see how often money and ego gets in the way of good art nowadays. The industry is killing the most important thing : the beauty of telling a story. As a writer, it breaks my heart.
Tbf, in the comics Lori dies when they try to escape the prison so she probably would’ve been written out anyway.
Lori wasn't exactly a very good actor in the show though, especially if you've seen her in other shows, always just acts the exact same.
After everythaaaang….that’s everythaaang.
The show felt different after Frank no doubt
I once thought Jon will forever be known for playing Shane in TWD. But him as Frank Castle in DD and Punisher is my favourite character of all time, hands down.
Honestly Jon is just a great actor all around.
I remember him more then his roles because I see him more then I see Shane of Frank.
I loved him in The Accountant also.
@@masterDarts4188 True, i can think of these few: Wolf of wall street, accountant, Wind river, Ford vs. Ferrari.
I also saw him in the latest Godfather movie. I was like “this guy gets so many roles!” 😂
@@BFG-hv2ml His role in Fury slapped
Let's not forget Frank Darabont also wrote and directed The Shawshank Redemption, The Green Mile and The Mist. Three all time classics in less than 15 years.The man knows what he's doing.
So it seems like he can adapt material that's already written for a movie/show, but can he write original things?
@@pnut3844abledoes it rlly matter if he can or not, twd also had a source material
@pnut3844able walking dead is a comic book, he was adapting a comic book
@@AionShanks no shit, I've been reading it since it came out
@pnut3844able yeah so what was that comment about, I don't think i understood your point
You guys aren't wrong about Frank and the earlier seasons of TWD. Me and my friend used to sit with a box of beers and binge the season 1 DVD regularly. Not just the writing, but the overall cinematography of that first season was spectacular. That first season is definitely one of the best pieces of television out there and it's awesome that you both got to be a part of it, what a legacy.
just rewatched it and will do a roast video on it but the use of sound and silence makes it stand out so differently to the rest of the seasons.
100%, I remember I was only 13 when the first season came out, but I loved it, season 2 after Frank was fired, I could tell even at that age that something was off and just eventually stopped watching
Season 1 is masterpiece
The first season was so fucking beautifully horrific. The cinematography was next level. The way they made the dead feel so oppressive and their future so bleak but still somehow hopeful, idk, it was special. Something about the enduring human spirit was captured in that season that may be one of the best examples anywhere in tv history.
Season 1 and 2 were the best of TWD!
Sarah Wayne Callies is so well-spoken, she's a joy to listen to.
till she mentioned Tiananmen square and how it was just like her vapid tv career?
She was whining about Georgia laws at the very start of the video.
@@bighands69 I hope she's not one of these "pro choice" child killers. Or a anti 2A nut job. She was however well spoken and had big balls for standing up for the writer.
@@mikehawk6563 She absolutely IS a pro-choice woman, and anyone worth a damn is, too. The fact that there are little pricks like you that feel ALL pregnant little girls and women, no matter what she wants and no matter how she got that way, and no matter what happens to her, she should be forced to carry a fetus and birth a child. I don’t hate anyone, but you people?? Oh, Jesus, I LOATHE you people.
You mention that we (women) should have no choice when it comes to our bodies, our life, our health, and our future, and you mention fucking guns. Like, just tell us you have a micro penis and Mommy issues without actually telling us.
I had an abortion 21 years ago, and every day, I thank God that I had that choice and I had that access to safe, legal abortion. It was either terminate or end my own life. I am dead serious. I was so young and in a terribly abusive relationship. I have assorted autoimmune health issues, too. You won’t care about any of this and you’ll stay an ignorant misogynist who hates women, so I don’t know why I’m even bothering to reason with you.
@@bighands69 Whining? Please explain to me how you would feel if the government forced you to carry a parasite and give birth. That’s the most unconstitutional, cruel, misogynistic bullshit I’ve ever heard, and it’s despicable. I don’t care who reads this- I’m back living in the red state where I had my abortion 21 years ago. I am ashamed of my state and most of the south. This is outrageous and it’s going to harm and kill so many children and women. It is already costing ACTUAL lives. Zygotes and fetuses don’t count.
As much as I love The Walking Dead and how it has grown, Frank Darabont being fired was the start of many bad decisions from AMC on their leading franchise. They keep taking away money from the show and keep making poor choices. I saw Frank's letters and emails to AMC and his passion and rage against their dumb choices were frightening, he was so dedicated to the show. So seeing these two talk about standing with him was just... it really brought a smile to my face.
The character of Dale was prematurely killed because the actor Jeffrey Demunn wanted out because of his support of Frank.
I don’t agree with the letter Frank wrote (aka tantrum) but to say he doesn’t kno how to write a show is crazy 😂
The show has gone to shit they just kill everyone off. And every new town they find just gets destroyed.
@The Rue Morgue it's because they're programmed to say that. They/she doesn't have the same real world interactions frank and the AMC people have had so they/she makes decisions in their safety bubble that make sense to it. It said that just to be safe and inclusive to something... gets a bit confusing the more you break down the psyche of that thing. It understands nothing past what some hive mind thinks
@The Rue Morgue its not just that either, he got fired just before he got any retirement funds or shares in the show. it was intentional so they could profit from what he created its messed up
What an actor, he absolutely owned the role of Shane
Best character for those seasons!
S*** the scene with him and Rick in the field in the fog and how it went to me that was the Pinnacle of the series.
He had an impact like Negan in the later seasons.
@@marc-etiennemercier6584 wish Shane and Negan met wonder if Shane would've bought into the saviors
@@mattrice3993 i was telling myself the same thing the other day. I think he could've been the one taking the first blow instead of Abraham after some badass scenes.
Dale’s line “this group is broken” is all the more meaningful now as it’s probably a nod to the drawing lines over the actors’ decision to or not to fight for darabont. Especially as Jeffrey Demunn asked to be written out after Darabont’s firing. Although Shane lived much longer than his comic counterpart, I imagine as Bernthal’s performance was so good they would have kept him on longer if not for this feud. I also would have liked to see more of Sarah as Lori as she is a brilliant actress but was a hated character and died within the same part of the story as her character did.
It's a pity really, because Lori's comic book counterpart was far more likable than her TV counterpart.
Recently finished all 11 seasons of TWD and man can you see the difference when you watch them back to back like that. Seasons 1 and 2 are masterpieces and going to the later ones felt like homework just to finish.
season 9-11 was definitely not homework to finish, and I felt like season 7 and 8 with the saviours was interesting enough to actually enjoy it, season 9-11 had so much action packed moments that I also loved it. Honestly I’m just not a hateful type of person or a critique and I have a ton of respect for all the directors
I’m getting into the walking dead with my gf we are currently on season two last 2 ep. Can one of you guys tell me where it gets like not good anymore or dull story wise? I hear everyone saying “the walking dead fell off and blah”
@@ItsJustAndyyyummmm it depends. Because some parts I disagreed when people were saying “it fell off”. I recommend just watching it all with the mindset that it’s a new world and the morals of this world don’t apply. I guess where it “fell off” for me was mid season of 7 to the end of season 9. Then season 10 and 11 pick back up and idk if you know the news but the TWD universe is expanding! I also recommend watching the spin-offs as well. They are all starting to connect and I was mind blown. I hope you both enjoy the walking dead universe!
@@ItsJustAndyyy after season 5 going into season 6
I loved season 3 with the governor though, and brutal rick with the cannibals was awesome in season 5. Once they got to woodbury and then negan and the saviors it went completely downhill and they tried to make it a family show with the dumb kids and goofy characters trying to be funny
I hated the character Lori, but I have nothing but respect for Sarah. Sticking to your morals is a hard thing to do and she did it like a boss!
I think everyone hated Lori, lol. But I think it shows that Sarah did a great job playing her!
100% agree. I never cared for Lori, but seeing Sarah talk, i have nothing but respect for her and will support anything she does, going forward!!
She’s so good she made the most hated character so hated haha
I know people hate lori and I understand that. she's definitely made some questionable decisions but she's still better than Shane and andrea lol
Because better to be puking up the Socialist drivel and have an acting job than to actually express your Own opinion that You actually researched
Jon……. If your reading this…… this podcast is Dope AF. Gritty and honest. Hard qualities to manufacture. Totally genuine. Gotta budget to get the Patreon now.
Only issue I have with this podcast is he should allow his guest to speak a little more and keep his questions concise and not go to Chicago with it. But I love it overall
@@angelrambojr4587 I believe Jon will figure it out. He probably doing that cause he Is just as excited as his audience so he geeked and don't realize it yet
You a sucker dude is in every damn movie and even in a Marvel property why does this dope need a Patreon
@@angelrambojr4587 When you have a friend talking about something tough you were involved in, thats natural. Jon made her more comfortable. They are talking and we get to listen. I think he should be real, do and say whatever he wants.
@@CHICAGOJOHNCHEVY thanks for your opinion, glad we each have one.
Shane was one of the best characters in TWD. Jon Bernthal killed that role. Would have been amazing if Shane left the group with Andrea and reintroduced in the later seasons.
He wouldn't be able to leave lorie
He would if he was at the prison. He would have left after her death
Knowing how everything went I feel Rick and Shane would’ve crossed path again eventually and Rick would probably kill him still especially if it was like season 5-6 Rick
@@unknownvoid2321 yeah that Rick is a monster
@@jakebrown1941 that doesn't count kid 💀
I’m glad they spoke about this together bc it was painfully obvious to the entire world how the script for twd started getting worse once he was fired.
*Season 2, was meant to open* with Sam Witwer (Starkiller, Deacon St. John) as an army officer watching law and order break down.. before he is bitten, watches his commanding officer go from a Battle Hardened Badass to scared and hopeless as he watches him commit suicide by the end of the episode.. only for him to die in the tank.. and provide a backstory for many other characters - as well as - the grenade that saves everyone’s lives.. THAT WAS EPISODE ONE ☝🏽 instead we got an entire season set on a farm - which originally wasn’t even the initial idea.
Yeah and it also showed how Atlanta fell
It was clearly the idea since Frank wrote those scripts. He might've done things differently if he had more funding, but season 2 was still Frank's baby.
@@redrocketrider it wasn't it was changed after episode 4
@@firstlast9846 I imagine most if season 2 still originated from Frank's rough drafts atleast.
If not, fuck Frank. My favorite scenes from the first two seasons are the barn scene and the drama between Rick and Shane in 2b. If that wasn't Frank's creation, I don't really care about him getting fired.
Don't forget that he was Darth Maul for a time too. Yet another iconic and tremendous role Witwer helped to flesh out and embody. That man also helped transform the show, The Clone Wars, the moment he first stepped onto screen as "The Son" in the Mortis arc, and then soon after as Maul in later episodes. And when TCW came back in 2020 to give us the true and rightful series conclusion, that it always deserved but hadn't got for several years after it was initially cancelled in 2014, Sam had reprised that role of Maul and the character was no less iconic and tremendous in that final season as well. Hell, he took the character of Maul to even NEWER heights in the final season! The man is a wealth of knowledge, both in Star Wars and out of, when you check out all the podcasts, interviews, panels, discussions, competitions and more that he has been involved with throughout the years. A legend. And for an original, planned main character-turned very brief sideline, afterthought extra on TWD, what Sam said on Frank Darabont's behalf as well was also pretty iconic and legendary in and of itself--also during a panel some odd years ago! :)
I will forever wonder what Frank Darabont would have done with this show. Drives me crazy that I'll never know how differently the story of TWD could have went. Something tells me it would have been glorious.
Just imagine the third season at a prison on the size of the prison on prison break
@@olestokke I liked the aesthetic of the prison on the show though.
@@TheStandingStillDead I can see that. To me, it just looked really cheap
@@olestokke yeah I can see that. The prison just looked really grim and scary. Im sure no really prison actually looks that that though. Fun fact if you didnt already know, the prison is not real and they turned their studio into a prison.
@@TheStandingStillDead Yeah, I know. And it shows
She forgot to age.
Shes definitely aged and it's fine
You can tell shes older (than prison break 17yrs ago & walking dead 12yrs ago) but her skin is so clear wrinkle free and so youthful its like she hasnt. Shes beautiful either way
@@NG-ez2bx Well if you stare at her so hard then yeah, but at first glance she hasn't aged at all.
Same with Jon Bernthal.
@@NG-ez2bx They both aged really well
Considering that TWD was the biggest opportunity that many in the cast had ever received (at that point) I get the hesitancy in rocking the boat and standing with Darabont out of fear of losing their jobs BUT it is still disheartening to hear that very few actually were willing to stand up for what was right.
The irony is, only Normal Reedus benefited from Darabont leaving (in my opinion) whereas everyone else got screwed on being sidelined/poor writing/killed off too early. I wonder if some of the cast, in hindsight, would have fought harder for Darabont if they knew what was to come.
Agreed. I hated how Norman was sooo hyped because he brought viewership. Andrew deserved a lot more. Hopefully with the spinoff he gets more.
Yep, the fact that the cast was mostly unknowns probably factored into their decision, especially since false rumours of being 'hard to work with' can seriously ruin an actor's career (for example Harvey Weinstein's victims). Still, it would have been a great gesture.
Dale stood up to this and 4 hrs he got ripped open and shot in the head by darrel.....
idk how to feel about this. First off Shane and Lori were supposed to get wacked early in the show anyways so idk how not protesting would have kept them on. Also Melissa McBride profiteered just as much as Norman. I love TWD so much that I would love to have seen an entire 11 seasons of Franks version but that'll never happen.
"The irony is, only Normal Reedus benefited from Darabont leaving" How so? I'm just curious. It does suck that more of the cast didn't stand up for Darabont, since he gave them a job....Heck, I think he specifically created the character of Daryl for Norman after he auditioned for Merle.
No wonder season 2 is my favorite by far. The writing, especially the dialogs was just something else.
Darabont really only wrote like 2 or 3 episodes of season 2
@@Johnhargrove18 the first 3 were still pretty good however, with what he had
@@thedevilandgodareamongus9792 He still had quite an influence on the earlier seasons after he left due to the work done in advance so it's understandable that the quality remains pretty consistent for a while. I actually think they did a good job with 3-6. It lost it's footing after 6 IMO.
@@Johnhargrove18 he actually wrote like half the season if he got fired the day after comic con
@@CucumberCheese haha I was talking about the episodes :P Season 2 is complete gold to me, season 3's complete chaos is something I don't think any show can come close to
Frank Darabont getting fired is one of the CRUCIAL things the cast should’ve stood up to and utilized their unified power
Exactly. She says she thinks of herself as the guy in front of the tank in Tiananmen Square, but in reality, she ran to get out of the way.
You have to remember that most of that cast were unknowns at the time and now had a good job on a massive hit show. If they try and speak up, the fear is that not everyone will. They also were being led some lies on his firing. It sucks, but most of them just wanted to keep their jobs, as they weren’t sure they’d ever get a chance like this again. Most of Frank’s big alumni or supporters were killed off soon after, with Shane, Dale, Lori, and Andrea all killed by the end of season 3. They even wanted to kill Carol, another alumni of his, but chose T Dog last minute because he was late to set. All in all, we all wish that the whole cast stood up for him, but the show was still young and since AMC was already big without them, they were probably afraid they’d just be cancelled, or written off
You can absolutely see the difference from when Darabont wrote to when he departed. The first 2 seasons were horror at its finest and it was heartbreaking. The further you get, the less fear of the dead you have, and that shouldn't be the case.
The second season wasn't very good. It was just them hanging out at the farm. Season 3 was so much better
@@kendallandrews8691 if you go back and watch the show the second season is actually one of its strongests in retrospect. Mainly because there have been a lot of terrible seasons since
@@chrispember172 I've watched the show many times and disagree completely. Nonstop action beats hanging out at the farm
@@kendallandrews8691I disagree 100%. Season 2 wasn’t only about the apocalypse and walkers, it was also about the group dynamics, the personal problems they had to deal with (lori being pregnant and scared, dale vs shane, rick vs shane relationship, etc..), the messages.., and encounters with walkers were rare (in a nice way where i literally gasped when i actually saw them, like the two walkers chasing sophia). Season 3 so far feels like it’s only about walkers and i just always know that at least 1 person is going to get bitten and die 😂 it’s predictable and feels more like a video game.
@@kendallandrews8691 I if I wanted to watch non stop action I would watch an action show, not a show focused on the character dyanamics, drama, the morality of their actions, and character development, which is the whole point of making a character study drama set in the zombie apocalypse. But sure, if that is what you expect out of this show, the other seasons are better I suppose.
It is really heartwarming to see you talking together about this beautiful experience!
Don’t get me wrong, seasons 3-8 were awesome (imo). But there was something so special about the first 2 seasons and now that I find out Frank Darabont was fired, the show’s shift in tone makes a lotta sense… 😔
S1 and S2 was the closest we got to the comics.
Totally agree with OP
Excellent, honest conversation. I admire the loyalty. Much respect to both of these actors. Love this. I will always support these two actors projects.
Sarah Wayne Callie’s is so beautiful, not just her looks but her intelligence, the way she speaks, her energy, i have such a girl crush on her
Same
There’s something nostalgic when it comes to watching these interviews w/ Sarah and Norman. Makes me want to rewatch the first two seasons of TWD again.
Norman?
@@AtollEntertainment yeah... Norman. Norman Reedus
@@SuperNathan777 Norman reed's wasn't in this video lol
@@AtollEntertainment dude..... I’m just saying Norman in general..... lmao
Frank Darabont wrote the screenplays for both The Green Mile and Shawshank Redemption. Literally two of the greatest movies of all time.
The only season I loved of the walking dead was season 1 and season 2 (some of it) but after that imo it just went downhill imo
I didn’t know he wrote those two movies….Jesus, that is some legendary sh** right there.
@@A_Planner_and_a_Dreamer he wrote the screenplays and directed them 👌🏻
Their actually both based off Stephen King novels.
Absolutely, one of my personal favorite films. His work has been part of my childhood.
Season 1-3 are my favorite twd. I stopped watching around season 5 it went down bill for sure. Idk how people are still watching it on season 11 lol
@@michaelmcculloch5957 I was gonna say you could at least give some credit to the King himself since he actually wrote both books but then I saw ur 2nd comment lol.
The Walking Dead's first 6 seasons are one of the most rewatchable seasons of all time. Love the cast!
I'd say same as 9, 10 and 11 too
@@alakaigoulding7459 no
@@alakaigoulding7459 yes
@@alakaigoulding7459 eh
@@alakaigoulding7459 No those are awful
Losing Darabont was basically suicide for the show. Darabont gave us The Shawshank for gods sake, best film in American history. His writing is divine.
Wow that explains why i feel the quality of this story lessens as the seasons go on. The characters are what kept this show alive for me. Truly
I think that Sarah's analogies are very on point here. I think we've all been in that "Charge!" scenario before and it can only be described as if the floor beneath you just collapsed. Really disappointed at how few of the cast and crew actually had the guts to stand up for what's right. I imagine it'd be very difficult for AMC to resist the entire or at least majority of cast's demands to bring Frank back. If there were more actors like Jon, Sarah, and Jeffrey I think we'd have a better entertainment industry in which actors and creative visionaries have more bargaining power.
When the chips are done sad how few are willing to stay strong.. But eye opening too.
I just happen to be rewatching the first few seasons. Love seeing these two together!
Same here, Lori didn’t age at all right ?
@@timkrone4951 I was thinking the same thing! She’s figured it out lol
Same here!
I've always said.... back in 2012 during the final episodes of season 2 that something felt off about the show. Once the news came out that Darabont was fired and replaced, it became clear that the show runners lost their best piece. Heard and Nicotero are proven, but do not have the experience that Darabont had. Gimple, ugh. Just look at his credits before he got The Walking Dead, he was unqualified.
Also, now learning about actors being fired for sticking up for the man who loved the comics, believed in it to bring it to millions, brought them all on board, and gave AMC an amazing show alongside Breaking Bad... it upsets me to know a good chunk of the cast was killed off for their loyalty.
Agreed. For me after season 3 I was finished with TWD
@@IamChris215 I stuck around waiting for Negan... and it was trying. The second bout with the Governor.... Terminus.... it was such slow build to situations that were easily resolved. Highly rated episodes involved a character death rather than character moments more often than not. Not all episode were terrible and some where great. But the spirit of the show changed drastically. Mishandled characters (do not even get me started on how poorly handled Tyrese was), obvious misdirects, iconic moments poorly translated... it was rough.
I recall being at a bar that would show it live every week. Being there for the season 6 finale and 7 premiere was a delight to see them introduced a (clearly for TV, but handled as well as one could hope as cable still had not allowed full swearing) neutered Negan, giving us a shocking death for Abraham, and nailing Glen's perfectly... everyone was crying and upset and I was clapping.
I got reinvested during that time, and was on board until the first few episodes of season 8. Since then I just read the recaps.
@@ChipJones421 I stopped at S8x01, but the issues that would eventually kill the series IMO, started in S4, really at the finale of S3, although S3 is really strong. TWD is known for bad finales and good openers, at least after S2 (which had the best finale IMO) but S3's finale was the first time something didn't feel right for me. Even so TWD was strong for years after that. S6 was the last good season. S7 was awful minus the first episode. Why do we talk so much about it? I myself, have left at least a couple dozen, if not more comments over the years basically ranting about the same things. Why? Love and appreciation, of course, but the latter is what is really important here. We appreciate the art we enjoyed, but we also appreciate what could've been. TWD could've been so much more if the tone and quality of the first two seasons was preserved, and perhaps the new Rick show will give us that, but I doubt it. At least we can alwaysTLOU might fill that void, but I doubt it, as most post-apocalypse connoisseurs already know that story and so it will just be treading old ground, albeit with a few amendments... and let's not even talk about Part 2...
Anyhow God bless S1+2... S2B is my favourite and I still watch S1-6 (where they clear out the satellite station) every couple of years. I just pretend they went home and everything worked out there and then lol.
Oh my days, this brings back nostalgia
Frank honestly was the reason I tuned in for the premiere. When I saw that first trailer and saw one of my favorite directors doing television, I was definitely in. Shawshank, Green Mile, and The Mist are among my all time favorites
The walking dead cast is so amazing, I love how they loved the early seasons just as much as we the fans did .
What a podcast. It's so strange seeing actors from a huge show, whom you've seen at comicon and TV and elsewhere talking about financial hardship/decisions. I guess we as the viewers always assume all these people are rockstars and live in mansions so big you could get lost in them, but that isn't always the case. It's amazing and humbling how real these interviews have been. Keep going Jon, you got something with this, I say that wholeheartidly. I'd love to be on this show too
Agreed - but their contracts were probably not as grand at first, and they left the show very early on - way before the huge success. It's unfortunate....
It's all relative. They're all rich, but no matter how much money you have, you look at your peers and think "I'm better than him at this job, I'm better than her, how are they living in a bigger house?"
@@sup9542 they might be rich compared to average people but they also have costs that average people don't have to pay, like security, lawyers, agent, etc which are necessary to keep them safe and working. Or they need to live somewhere that paparazzi can't constantly take pictures of them and their kids (gated community etc). And none of those things come cheap. Once you pay all that, it's not surprising that someone might be somewhat struggling financially, until you get another big break.
@@kaylinstephens3169 Very good point, we usually forget all of this
they probably got paid 10k an episode not life changing money
Frank is an incredible writer that would have kept TWD at A+ quality for years and years. It's a sin they fired him. It's sad to think of what an epic and incredible show TWD would have been consistently year after year had he been left on.
This is a trip! I literally just rewatched season 2 of TWD and to see these two together on screen is dope! No accents. No tension! Just talking. I enjoyed this so much.
When I think about TWD, I'm very fond of the early seasons. I miss Sarah Wayne Callies and Jon Bernthal's presences on the show. And I also miss the direction of Frank Darabont. He knew how to tell remarkable stories in the show. Sarah said it best, "No one writes like Frank Darabont." It is a shame he was fired. I was surprised to learn that Bernthal and Callies left the show because of it. I knew Jeffrey DeMunn left, but not them. I thought it was because their characters died where they needed to for the story. But man. I wonder what it would have been like if Darabont stayed on. It would have probably been an overall better received show. I do love what Scott Gimple has done for the season 4 and 5 storylines, particularly with Beth, but besides that, the show is unbearable now. If Darabont was still behind it, I don't think it would be this mediocre at all. We deserve better as Walking Dead fans. Not a bunch of spinoffs.
Jon Bernthal didn’t leave the show because of Frank being fired. His character was always supposed to die towards the end of season 2 at the hands of Rick. But yeah, Lori was written off because Sarah chose to speak up about Frank being fired and how bad of an idea it was.
You love what they did with Beth? Yikes lol
@@johnjoseph6874 Lori was also supposed to die when she did. At most she would have made it to the mid season finale of season 4.
Glenn Mazzara should have remained showrunner. Once Nicotero kept leeching more and more control, Mazzara was chased off. Every showrunner from there on out-Gimple, Kang, whatever-were just fanboys and fangirls ready to suck up to that Allman Brother-looking motherfucker and execute his vision. Nicotero did to TWD what Kevin Feige is doing to MARVEL. His likeness and his image. And it doesn’t work.
You both are amazing! I’ve been a Walking dead fan since the beginning when channel surfing and i accidently stubbled onto a car chase scene on AMC that ended with a cop getting shot, then waking up in a hospital in a different world!! I had no idea what i was watching when i stubbled upon it. It changed my life and my sense of adventure and imagination. The first 2...3 seasons have stuck with me and i still go back and watch them episode for episode just to enjoy what i gained from it years ago.
I have followed the actors! Followed their careers! And am grateful for the art and experience they shared with all of us!
Sarah, beautiful as ever....and you are definitly still crush worthy as ever!!😍
Jon, keep up the good work brother! The chanel has opened up subjects and outlets that need it. Thanks for keeping it real Brother!🤙🤜!
Great to see these 2 r still friends after almost a decade of being off the show. Rlly good to hear some behind the scenes stories
The first 2 seasons were THE BEST seasons!
season 5,6 are my favourites but s1-3 had the greatest atmosphere and writing but especially season 1
100% I could rewatch them over and over again.
@Joe T bro the writing in s3 was still up to par with s2,1 sometimes way better even. That Morgan episode is such an amazingly written episode that it got a 9/10 and it basically had no action whatsoever. Perfectly executed drama as always!
@Joe T season 6 was the most exciting season on TV in my eyes.
@Joe T that’s your opinion, the majority would disagree though which is more than 90 percent.
Absolutely beautiful and terrific actress,hope she has a great career ahead of her and Hollywood should definitely show her respect.
She was amazing in Prison Break too, she's by no means new to any of this
The show did still manage to keep well after Darabont, but I guarantee that slump from 7-8 would not have happened if he was on board til then.
It picked up massively in 9 and 10, but I do wonder what sort of show we would have had
For one, we would have got Dale Horvath for longer! One of the best characters on the show, and written out sooner than he should have been.
Keep well? The show was mid at best (and it achieved mid very infrequently) past the first season. Darabont was what made season 1 so great, and it never got close to season one throughout the rest of it's run
GREAT show Jon and Sarah! Jon I love how you are so "kicked back" ! Sarah and I had so much fun on my show too... 👍👍
They both did amazing jobs taking those characters to their final moments and I'll always remember those episodes. It was a magical time. Also the podcast is awesome, keep doing your thing Mr. Bernthal.
Still a huge fan of TWD but the first couple seasons make me feel really nostalgic! Wish their characters could've lasted another season or two. Shane is still one of my favorites in the entire series & glad Jon could come back for the S9 flashback with Rick.
@Thisis Gettinboring last couple seasons have been great 🤷🏻♂️
@@colee61200 they have been mediocre not great at all. It’s been predictable writing and milked the universe with these crappy spin-offs. They have pretty much told us who lives before the show has even ended
This interview brings so much nostalgia. I’ve always wanted for Shane character to stay in the show because of how good is the acting of Jon. Besides as the show progresses we can see Rick slowly becoming who Shane was already. Shane would have been a great leader
He really would've
But then he might not have been available for the Punisher
Hahaha Shane wouldve been a great leader?? Shane’s a great character and I wish they kept him but he was a psychopath. I wish they just didn’t make him a psychopath in the first place and him and Rick could’ve led the show. But they turned him into a dog with rabies who needed to be put down
@@gdelan1 which is the best TV character of all time.
You haven't watched the show if you genuinely believe that lol
I regret ever watching TWD, but I’m glad it gave us Jon Bernthal. Wonderful actor and person he is.
Season 1 is literally the best and most individually complete season of the show. All the way down to the ending as they ride away from the destroyed cdc into the unknown. Frank did that.
The Shane and Lori days of TWD were the absolute best. I miss these two.
I really enjoyed this interview. Wish it had been longer.
Its on patreon or spotify from next week
I would have loved to see her stick around on TWD but Colony was an epic show. She was fantastic in that. With that said the first few seasons of TWD with Frank D. were done so masterfully. The writing and producing brought on a feeling of nostalgia and made you feel so immersed in the show. It's sad to say but that level of productuon is gone.
Amazing show in the first 2 seasons
It was great up to season 5 . Actually had the most top tuned in viewership on the show up to 5 and then it started declining. Season 5 got very action packed and dark for character development especially for rick wich was the best version of himself . He was finally the Shane that everyone wanted him to be like as a badass . Killing people left and right without any hesitation and killing cannibals trying to eat everyone in season 5 wich got more crazy with other stuff happening. Seasons 1 & 2 will always be the best and ogs but up to season 5 was great for the shows prime . Rick was weak and inexperienced in the first two seasons of the show and overtime after Shane being gone he ended up evolving into being like him to survive the worser threats of the show to come in the apocalypse . Besides shows and movies with obviously needing great writing to make them great most importantly, when it comes to a zombie movie or show like the walking dead no matter what people tend to easily stop watching to hate it after there favorite character dies
@@CHRISTALGIA Yeah I totally agree I was fully committed to watching up to S5 or 6 then slowly started losing interest. I watched those seasons so many times and still pick up parts I didn't catch everything I rewatch. Idk what it was about the earlier seasons but the cinematography was just so good man. I think some of it was the grainy aspect it had. I just can't seem to find that level of quality in TV shows anymore. For me personally, the show Lost gave me the same sort of vibes. But either way I'll still tune back in to TWD and watch till the end. Did you ever get into fear TWD or the other spin offs? I never really could get into them.
LOVED colony.
The first two seasons were always my favourites, to this day. Even if they did make a number of mistakes with the zombies in the early days. They learned, though.
I completely agree that getting rid of DARABONT was the worst thing to happen to THE WALKING DEAD (TV SERIES).
But I do think it's a bit unfair to act as if he was the ONLY or MAJOR mind behind it. ROBERT KIRKMAN wrote the amazing comic that inspired Darabont's wonderful adaptation. I'd say you needed both to really make the show sing. And losing the cinematic half to that equation really sank the series.
If only they'd kept Darabont's cinematic instincts and willingness to diverge from the source material with Kirkman's workman-like writer brain (he's so prolific) with his in depth knowledge of the world and tone he'd created, you'd have an all-timer series. So much of it needed those two minds in tandem, and the ppl who replaced Darabont (who weirdly were not Kirkman) just weren't as sophisticated storytellers.
This seems like a long drawn out nice way of saying what everybody else here has been saying lol
They don't realize that their characters died in the comics even earlier than that of the show and Shane's arc was done way better and stretched out longer than the comics, so them going to war and defending Frank I think had no impact on why they were killed off.
I love you both! Great actors, you gave your all on The Walking Dead, and Frank was the best for this show, I know this because after the second season, which was the best of the show, with all those amazing features and the perfect plot involving Lori, Rick and Shane the series has never been the same, it doesn't have the same soul as the first two seasons. Congratulations to Sarah for having shown her indignation with Frank's dismissal, and congratulations to both of them for the great work they did in this series, it had soul and competence, you are great actors, I love you both! 😘😉
Thank you for this episode, it’s really interesting to hear the real behind the scenes events that occurred. Darabont is a legendary man
So cool that she came on the show so glad you guy’s are still friends
This interview was fantastic.
Just looked up Frank's writing credits on IMDB. I now understand why The Mist is my favorite Stephen King movie.
I wanted MORE! I just loved the early years of TWD but haven't watched since season 8. Your characters definitely left an impression and were missed!
And also, to continue Sarah's thoughts, what if you didn't speak up and still got wrote off anyway? At least you fought for what you believed in. Cool conversation, gotta love this show.
She dies early in the comics too… they were probably just following source material and would have killed her regardless
@@breht oh interesting! I just got into comics, having bought my first one today actually: The Killing Joke. A lotta people were recommending me TWD comics too, so I consider your comment a sign to follow through on that 🤝
@@GrimmHollywood Sorry for the spoiler 😭. Yeah, the comics are a masterpiece, read them last year, love the show but they are 10x better
@@breht ahahah no worries - I'm finding it's a normal thing for comic tradition haha. And righteous! I'm stoked, man. Feels like I'm opening a door into a magical world.
@Joe Brandon exactly they weren't supposed to kill off Sophia. She was supposed to be Carl's love interests and the fact that fact that Sarah, Jon, and Andrew were marketed as the leads, yeah it was personally. They were sending a message when they killed them off.
Jon ur prolly my fav actor. U played Shane perfectly. Couldn’t be even a tiny bit better.
Same goes for Sarah. U both helped make The Walking Dead what it’s meant to be
I mean you two did get the BEST deaths in the series no doubt. The scene at the farm where jons character is revealed as a zombie with a hoard of zombies following him in the darkness was pure horifying art. And dont get me started on Sarah's death/birthing scene! that scene was absolutely beautiful and scary and gut wrenching. And you guys have slayed the game after leaving the show. And the Punisher is one of my favourite shows of all time. The scene where you fuck the guys up in the gym is cinematography magic for the soul.
The introduction of Negan was a close second to Seasons 1&2.
I love this interview so much
We need Andrew Lincoln on here
@GREEN Well Andrew wanted more time with his family. I get it, why did he not do it sooner rather than later if he felt that way but that was the decision he chose.
I've been so curious about this!!! I'm so glad that you guys are discussing it
This was beautiful to listen to. The rawness and honesty, amazing to see
Jesus, I want more real open conversations like this from famous folk. Sheds a very enlightening view on the industry and things that just go on, that we do know happen, but it’s never really discussed.
Jon .... sending love from Toronto Canada
love for both great fortitude we all need friends like you
Man that's tough to hear about their time on season 1 knowing they could have possibly remained longer on the show. Also just how different the show had been if Darabont wasn't fired.
They wouldn’t of stayed on the show longer. Shane’s death is the exact same in the comics and Lori died at a perfect time when she wasn’t needed anymore.
@@TheMikey2207frank wanted to keep lori and sarah actually said she thought she needed to go to serve the story. But tbh the characters in s1 were so much more interesting. We cared about them surviving and killing them all off in quick succession was a bad move. There was so much more story they could have had with shane and lori. Its like they wanted to show there were no sacred characters to show the audience others were in real danger. But in reality they just killed all the people we built a relationship with & thats why people like norman & melissa are still the most beloved because theyve been there that long people are attached. If they killed rick michonne daryl or carol people would kick off. I dont think there would be the same level of outcry if it was any other character that appeared after s3 except judith. I mean look at glenn. Everyone cared about him. Abe never really even gets a mention even tho he was killed the same way.
@Joe Brandon in my opinion following the comics with Shane and Lori was best.
I love the characters and Shane is one of my all time favourites in the show but he needed to die at the end of season 2 and Lori needed to die in season 3.
Both are great characters that left you wanting more. It’s the walking dead, not everybody can and should survive.
Shane was quickly set up in S2 to be the “villain” of the season and Rick killing him was best for the story as without him killing Shane he wouldn’t of fought the Governor or the termites and became the badass we all love now. Same with Lori, her death allowed Rick to move on and eventually find love with Michonne. It wouldn’t of been great if she survived to terminus or Alexandria.
They are great characters played by a great actor and actress but their characters died at the right times.
Woah he sounds wayyy different. I always thought he was an incredible actor but his voice in TWD and The Punisher just made Jon an all time favourite
These interviews are great, love seeing them
It is so great to hear behind the curtain thoughts of the actor/actress about what went down. All the more respect for both of them to backing they loved. The beauty of it is that they went out when the show was so excellent vs what it has become. I still want to see Jon B as more of The Punisher. I think he is the perfect actor for it and I can't wait to see him on screen again!!
You guys were awesome to stand up for Frank.
Gotta miss the OG cast of The Walking Dead.
What a sincere conversation.
This just popped in my feed - extraordinary interview and seeing the folks behind Lori and Shane together again... perspective on the start and backgrounder on firing of Darabont. Amazing.
SOMEONE give Sarah Wayne Callies a lead role again. Showrunner, Producers, Casting Directors, please look at the Shows she has led, integrity and spark in every single lead. She's Awesome to me x!
Nothing could compare to the first two seasons, they were just perfection, fear, all of it❤
Wow, love this so much. Love the honesty. Refreshing. Rare in this business.
Sarah’s final scene is so amazing! Loved these two characters. And btw Sarah is such a beautiful lady
But her final scene is also stupid. The zombie completely consumes here?! She’s dead. I don’t remember seeing zombie ear any other dead things they didn’t kill. Just dumb. Horribly dumb. Kirkman ruined his own show.
There for sure was a difference in the seasons, but I never understood why I didn't feel as strongly about walking dead as I did before. Love the depth and learning from the podcast!
It's a classic move. Let a major creative force like Frank Darabont get something off the ground and then the studio steps in, fires him, and tries to assembly line it. The Walking Dead remained good solely because the cast that Frank had picked held it together. When they started picking them off there really wasn't anyone to take their place.
That “literally the last time Steven Yeun called me for advice” line cackled me 😂
Jon is such a great actor. I’m glad he’s doing this show. He’s the one Hollywood actor I would be scared to death to meet. Lol
Good stuff. Seeing these two takes me back to when that next Walking Dead episode couldn't come soon enough. Amazing show and Shane is forever my dude, flaws and all.
Both of these talents are true real ones. Had the privilege of meeting Jon 10 years ago. We talked about his alternate ending pitch for Shane, which is fantastic. If y'all don't know the story, check it out. Frank getting canned was the beginning of the end for The Walking Dead. Some people loved what came after... For me, it all went down hill. Things in season 2 got changed etc etc... Frank would've done so much better with the show... Makes you wonder what all would've happened... who wouldve stuck around longer and visa versa etc... it's a real shame. Glad to see that he won his financial battle with amc in the long run though.
While I agree with the general sentiments of what she said, I don't think she got written off the show for voicing her objections; Lori did die during the prison arc, a different death that the TV show but around the same time.
Dude, Jon became one of my favorite actors. His rawness and ability to get so deep and serious is so insane. His acting gives me the chills & is so believable.
Such a shame that Darabont was fired,the show really went downhill after he wasn't on it anymore.AMC really took so so much bad decisions with everything,and the first very very bad decision that started it all,was killing off Sophia for no reason,though I agree that season 1 had some unnecesary deaths like Jacqui or Maaaybe Amy.
It's interesting to hear so many years on what happened - TWD would have been a different beast if Frank Darabont was still on board. Impressed that Jon and Sarah went to bat for him.
I think you two did the right thing. I relate a lot to what was discussed and just having a reminder of shared company, rejuvenates determination to keep steering the spirit the right way. Eventually someone inspired to take a stand against the machine will get a win
Ok, this sit-down with both actors was very insightful and awesome!!!
Darabont walked with $200M in royalties. I think he's OK.
financially OK yeah, but creatively it's surely gotta be a bummer to be fired and replaced by less competent people that deviated from his vision.
@@nathxn05 Ask Steve Jobs (rhetorically).
I didn’t really like her character that much but she definitely played Lori well she’s a good actor and seems like a cool person it’s always interesting to hear this kind of stuff from behind the scenes
When Frank was fired, it affected a lot of us true fans as well. Thank You for giving us those seasons, which were the best in my opinion.
This is the channel that I didn't know I needed. Such open conversations, it's great. Real people having real conversations
I got nothing but love in my heart for loyal people.
shane and lori were my favorite characters on TWD. jon and sarah brought so much depth and complexity to them.