I can live with Glenn and Abraham’s deaths bc they further character arcs and plot lines but I will never forgive them for writing off Carl , biggest mistake they made
Same here! If they hadn’t, maybe Andrew wouldn’t have left the show. And some of the things they did after Carl’s death didn’t make much sense either. To this day, I say Chandler was subtly betrayed. The Gimp and the rest of the writers really screwed that kid.
@@squidlytv Carl literally is the one who’s tell the story at the end of the comics he needed to stay alive as it was supposed to be about Rick making sure he is strong enough to conquer the new world.
@@squidlytv except not as clean bc Carl was there start to finish. He’d be a reliable narrator. From a meta perspective it’s just unforgivable knowing the reason why they killed him and the circumstances behind Riggs being wrote off.
for me last day on earth is probably the most terrifying episode of twd. the scenes of the roadblocks that just keep getting larger is legitimately scary and slowly realizing that the group is cornered and there is absolutely no way out of it this time is horrific. and this was the first time we really saw Rick scared, and the first time he’s finally questioning if Jenner was right. it’s heartbreaking, horrifying, and just so good. i wish all of the show was written this good
@@daniig62 i mean if i get to kill most my enemies, enslave their friends and family then also enslave women as wives and all i had to do was go to ‘jail’ for a few months i’d call that a HUGE win 😀
@@Turk37man he was in jail for 8 years, you numpty. Did you forget how pathetic and weak he was crying and begging Maggie to kill him? He didn’t win anything.
I definitely think Abraham dying in the finale and Glenn dying the premiere would have been an infinitely better way of handling it if they really wanted to kill of Glenn.
I’ve always said the same thing about this episode. Negan killing Glenn two minutes after killing Abraham overshadowed his mourning tremendously from our characters and fanbase.
This is why they shouldn't have killed two people. Abraham was supposed to die where Denise died and only Glenn dies here. They decide to change it up a bit so what's the problem you ask? Well Glenn was a significantly more popular character than Abraham and them both dying only a few minutes apart means Glenn's death completely overshadows Abraham's. Every time you hear this scene talked about it's always about Glenn, nobody talks about Abraham dying too. It's like he never even existed.
@@BrandonFlint-ro2ns that’s exactly my point! if you’re going to kill off Abraham, at least give him the closure that he deserves. we could’ve benefited from his army tactical skills during the all out war and whisperer war. i would’ve much rather have him get killed off during the Whisperer Arc while fighting Beta.
@@dante-qt9sb Beta would've been a perfect candidate for killing off Abraham. Daryl and Negan (two of the strongest characters physically speaking) both could not win 1 on 1 fights with him. Daryl only killed him because he caught him off guard while he was fighting Negan. So him being able to overpower Abraham would have been believable and would make sense. What they did with him instead really doesn't because they spared his comic book death only to kill him off 3 episodes later and it gets overshadowed to the point where nobody has talked about it since the day that episode aired.
@@BrandonFlint-ro2ns not only that but they killed off Sasha by the end of the season?! we could’ve seen sasha and maggie going through BIG character development.
@@dante-qt9sb One of the most pointless character deaths ever and the way they tried to explain it was stupid. She kills herself so she can kill Negan? Um...okay.
First time watching I missed Abe's ✌ to the group. On rewatch that hit me right in the feels man. He accepts he's dead and makes no show of it, going quietly to keep Negan from hurting anyone else. Loyal to the group 100%
I think he realized that he’s lucky it was him. He had two love interests, but he knew that everybody was going to be able to survive. It’s just sad that Daryl punched him, meaning that Glenn could’ve survived.
Any fan of the show as a whole and not just individual characters can recognize how incredible these two episodes are. The fact that the writers were able to incite such feelings in the viewers is impressive. As much as I loved Glenn and Abraham, I HAD to see what would happen going forward with the surviving characters. Negan’s charisma makes him a character we hate to love, but love nonetheless, and he’s a great character on the show to date.
As much as I hate how I had to wait so long for the 2nd part, I do genuinely love these episodes for what they are and I thought they executed Glenn’s death perfectly. What caused me to drop the show afterwards was how goddamn slow and boring half of season 7 was. I was already starting to get the feeling that the show was adding too much filler in season 6, but season 7 felt like barely anything important was happening from episode to episode. After Carl died and I heard they were getting rid of Rick and Maggie, I just lost all interest in the show for years.
I kept watching only to see how they were going to handle Negan, and holy crap was it crazy to see how he went from loving savior to being a prisoner for years THEN finally free, knowing what he took from Maggie apologizing to him. Some of the other new characters also made the later seasons more bearable like the whisperers or the commonwealth.
@@trevordavis6830 to me the biggest mistake was leaving abraham's death as a cliffhanger when glenn was going to die too, the fact that glenn also dies made the first mystery death kind of irrealevant now you kill a character only to make the fans wait 6 months to find out who it was, then they finally find out only for you to immediately kill another was a huge mistake, it turned off alot twd fans i knew
the RV trip was meaningful. Negan showed Rick that he even can't touch Negan when they are one on one. The show declined not because of some stupid cliffhanger and not because of Glenn or Abraham, but because of decline of writing quality after their death.
I honestly stopped watching after season 5… the problem with the walking dead was there was nowhere to go other than just repeating the same stakes over and over and the overarching story just never felt like it got anywhere. Pretty much went, Ricks group struggle against zombies for a time then find a safe haven. Either one of the group or a river group threaten the safety of this safe haven so they go to war. People die and inevitably their safe haven is destroyed and they have to move on again. What’s the end goal? You would think after 5 seasons it should feel like they had achieved something but they just keep ending up at square one. I genuinely think the decline of the show was due to this simple factor. Not due to a terrible cliffhanger or killing Glenn, I do think that killing Glenn was a catalyst for many viewers who were already on the brink of leaving. People just left because they got bored and felt like the show wasn’t offering anything new to see, simple as that.
@@jockturner1547 obviously you're wrong, because you didn't watch the show. So you don't even know how the cycle you are talking about evolved with years and had logical deviations just like in real life (finding home, losing home, finding ways to rebuild it in some new form). Even the last arc is a logical turn and even with some repetition, it brought something new (the return to civilization). The problem is that after Season 7 episode 1 (until then it was alright), the show was very poorly executed and written. Even good ideas (whisperer arc, then a new civilization) were ruined due to no longer being able to write engaging, surprising plots. The problem is not the show's ideas (if they were bad we would not be even talking about this show right now), but their execution.
@@linaskranauskas It doesn’t matter if it had subtle changes and it evolved. Pretty much everyone I have asked who used to watch the show and stopped have answered with the exact same response. They got bored. The little challenges and slightly different situations they ended up in wasn’t interesting, different or exciting enough and often felt like retreading told ground. The show didnt have a perceivable end, what’s the goal? What are we trying to get to, where’s the hook to keep people returning to a long running series? There isn’t one. Watching people trying to survive a zombie apocalypse can only be so interesting until you feel like you’ve seen them already accomplish this goal, any changes that set them back simply becomes a frustration rather than interesting. I haven’t watched the show but I have kept up with what’s going on and I had a lot of friends who were fans as well and they all stopped watching and various points due to getting bored and feeling like they have already seen all of this before.
I genuinely think Glenn’s death causing everyone to leave was because they fake killed him off, everyone got SUPER emotional, people speculating he survived and being hopeful. Then after like half a season he comes back, and dies for real like 3 episodes later. I know for me I actually would have been happier with Glenn dying the first time than the second. You don’t get that same emotional reaction twice. You just piss people off
I think the episode got the backlash it did because people couldn't handle this grevious defeat of the protagonists. this was truly the first time on the show that there was seemingly no hope in sight for the group. The closest we came to that before was the mid-season 4 premiere of the Governor attacking the prison, killing Hershel and splitting the group up but at least the Governor died and his group got destroyed, and we got Tara but this was just brutality at another level. So I don't blame people for disconnecting themselves from the show but you can't deny that it was a brilliantly acted episode that kept you on your toes for it's entire runtime. It just sucks the writing dipped in quality after the premiere.
I always say that. Peoples’ emotional were genuinely hurt. Favorite characters were murdered and there wasn’t iludiste revenge and hope. A chunk of people left when Hershel was murdered and the prison went down. But Hershel at least got vengeance, they were able to fight back. There was no hope in this episodes everyone was useless in this situation. Rick was in Negan’s pocket. There was no hope and that made people genuinely hurt. Though people say it was cause “they were only fighting people”..that’s not true. We’ve seen people die from walkers since then. We’ve seen more herds than before. It’s a lame excuse. But I definitely can sympathize for people who were hurt and traumatized by the situation the group was in.
It's honestly very realistic. I remember thinking how lucky they have been for a while, besides Herschel's death by a selfish, egotistical asshole aka the governor. And I never forgave Neagan since lol
Thankfully I watched twd late compared to everyone else. I wasn't part of the fandom and I didn't know anything about the story. I remember watching these 2 episodes back to back, and I honestly loved them so much. It's the most emotional I've ever gotten watching the show, their death was so unexpected. And I also binged the whole season, so waiting for new episodes wasn't a problem for me. I may be in the minority here, but season 7 is one of my favorite seasons BECAUSE they were so demotivated and depressed. Throughout the whole show up until that point, we've seen Rick come out of every situation on top, so having an arc where him and his group are the ones that are on the losing side is a really interesting change in dynamic. Makes it more realistic imo. Having Glenn's death be so gruesome only sells the idea of them being traumatized further. It was perfect.
Same, I binged s1-10 last year and then 11 this year… I’m also the type who prefers to know if my fave character will die or not in a show like this and Glenn was hands down my favourite so I knew from very early on when he would die, that it was with a baseball bat and that it was someone called Negan who kills him. All of that didn’t take away the utter heartbreak and defeat I felt with those two episodes and basically everything until the war with Negan. But yeah I think it was brilliant storytelling and I personally think Rick vs Negan was the peak of twd storytelling simply because Rick was portrayed as so strong and able to defeat anything and we had never seen him so beaten down and defeated and I don’t think we ever will again. That emotional devastation Rick experienced when Negan was their enemy made their victory against him so much more impactful.
Weirdly enough I think season 7 episode 1 was one of the best episodes of the show, but the problem was that everything after that just wasn’t anywhere near as good. Glenn and Abe dying isn’t an issue. I mean Glenn gets his head bashed in in the comics as well so it works.
The year wait is what killed things. Being a first time viewer years after the dust had settled and being able to watch the two episodes in the same day made the viewing experience much better to the point where I didn't throw my hands up and quit the show like so many did.
I think people always point to this episode and death as the reason for the shows decline, but it's really what happened after. Yes a lot of people did stop watching when Glenn died, but if you're a fan of TWD then you're no stranger to sudden deaths of beloved characters. Also, lots of people didn't stop watching when characters just as popular and important died on GOT, if anything it shot the show into the stratospheric, so why is it when TWD killed Glenn and Abraham it killed the show??
This is exactly what I thought before this episode it was getting a bit stale and this really was an episode that was just an emotional rollercoaster I think it needed it. To some degree I think it may have been a bit drawn out for some people to watch but I guess it had to be that way for everyone to feel the emotions they wanted you to feel. As for what you said about everything after not being as good I fully agree with that too
@@seph2686 I think the introduction of Negan is definitely the shake up the a show needed. Really it feels like TWD has two era's, before Negan and with Negan
@@bishbosh4815 Exactly and what happened at hilltop really ignited the fuse and once Rick and crew met the saviours Rick was too complacent and cocky considering how they always came out on top of any situation they came up against and that was their downfall the fact that Negan and the saviours were a whole different kettle of fish to anything they had faced previously which is really saying something and what happened at hilltop is something people often overlook but when you put it into perspective well then you can see why Negan's introduction and the episode played out the way it did
Thats why Abraham’s bummed me out way more. He was one of my favorite characters in the show, then later the comics too , in which for those who dont know, he gets killed off the same way Denise does, bolt through the eye :(
same here. i cried more for abraham's death than glenn cause i knew glenn was doing to die. abraham was one of favorites. i loved his relationship with sasha @@ness1278
that’s DEFINITELY not an unpopular opinion lol, the consensus is usually either that the episode was too much for somebody to handle or that they loved the devastation and acting in the episode Last Day on Earth is much more controversial for the cliffhanger, but I love both episodes
Yea in season 1 last episode when the scientist was blowing up the building and he finally let the group go, rick says "im grateful" and the scientist says "the day will come when you wont be"
I think what happened in these episodes was extremely important for the show, and television. It broke expectations, made people face a grim reality that ‘no one is untouchable, fantasy must sometimes remind us of reality’. It was not this episode that killed the show, it was Ricks leaving that killed the show.
honestly there were multiple stages of "killing the show" and this was the first. for me, and a lot of people, this kinda turned me off from the show but i still watched a few episodes afterward and it just didn't feel right. Like he said, it just felt hopeless and there was really no telling where the plot was going anymore. Season 8's writing was just terrible, and when they killed Carl off that's when i officially quit. Never watched another episode since. and then for many people the next phase of the show's death was like you said Rick leaving.
I was sad to see Glenn and Abe go. But I continued to watch just to see Rick and the gang go to war with Negan. Then they killed Carl 🙄 and Rick left😞....That pretty much sealed it for me. Killing Carl was the worst decision they could've ever made.
disagree. the no one is untouchable thing was always established from the very beginning. major character deaths were not foreign to viewers the writers failed when it comes to the pacing and presentation of which they executed those two episodes. and the show was killed even before rick leaving. carl’s death is what killed it. he was the whole purpose of rick’s constant fight, which was established early in the show. when you kill a main character’s sole purpose the show is bound to fail.
and if we are being honest. viewers were already getting fed up with the format they were telling stories leading up to those two episodes anyways. the decline of this show honestly needs to be studied because there was so much great and so much bad and so many times they could’ve repaired what the damaged but instead they made it worse.
even though i will say it got better after scott dickle stopped being showrunner but even the ending was annoying because of everything that happened before.
Having originally quit the show during the prison infection arc, i started watching the show again purely because of Negan. I knew Glenn was going to die, but i was shocked to see Abraham die. Abraham is definitely in my top 3 favourite characters, and a character i still miss
@@jermainehaslam5634 Absolutely. Especially how he adapted to the way Eugene was talking. I have ASD myself and the interactions between Eugene and Abraham were just so fun
I am a ride or die fan of TWD. I stop watching when the show is finished, no matter what angles it takes. Seeing this episode tore my heart right open and I can empathize with those who quit on it. I just wish it didn't have to happen this way because if these episodes were handled so much better, I do believe the fan base would be twice the size it is today and we'd probably get more seasons. RIP Walking Dead
It wasn’t that they killed one or the other, it felt like they killed both (at the time) for nothing more than shock factor. It was cheap, I didn’t like it
@@belowaverage4721 Glenn was always going to happen because of the comics and Abraham should’ve died before that point so he needed to die. His death furthered Sasha and Rosita’s storylines
@@BoogSReviews it made sense to kill each of them in that time period but glenn's death was a shot in the heart after literally seeing Abe get his head smashed in. HORRIBLE turn of events that couldve been handled much better
@@BoogSReviews I agree but Kirkman's comics are altogether different. TV adaptations differ in consumption and narrative needs, Abraham could've died later in the season standing up to Negan and it would've felt deserved since he had his own 'death episode.'
Abe was such a badass truly one of the best characters. His last moments showed how proud and brave he was even the way he was just sitting on his knees before he died showed what he was about
Just rewatched the ep. First time round I missed that - right before Negan kills him - he does his little ✌ to the group. Man accepts his death and has faith in the others to keep going 😭
Damn right! Abraham was/is the kind of man that I’ve known and loved in my family and from growing up in the south. He was funny, willful, passionate, driven, confident, prideful, and loyal to his people. He was inherently masculine in the ways that many people find comforting, reassuring, and yes, sometimes frustrating. I loved Abe. Not as much as Glenn, but that’s mostly because I had years longer to know and love Glenn. We didn’t get enough time with Abe. The way he faced Negan with such bravery and indignation- it was poignant, and he went out throwing a peace sign to Sasha. 💔
I rewatched on Netflix. The show found its way after season 7. People who stopped watching really missed out. The whisperers especially is a great arch in the story
Eh, once they lost their way, i lost interest, i bet the show became better, but without carl im not watching it, they mutilated the story killing him off like that imo
i agree, before i watched i heard it was the worst show ever. I watch s1-6 I’m like how’s this bad and this episode comes up and i can see why but i wanted to see rick absolutely destroy negan so i kept binge watching going. the first half ofseason 7 was kinda boring to me until they go to war the other half finale. it got me hyped for season 8 and I love that season. (yeah ik i like season 8 so what) and i kept going to the series finale and after all that i’m like HOW IS THIS A TERRIBLE SHOW, It’s fucking good.
I feel 7 and 8 and the beginning of 9 are all actually good, not amazing, especially compared to the likes of 3-5 but they were solid and enjoyable and had some good plot points (besides carl)
strange as it is. Glenn is the reason I still am watching. I remember his talk with Enid saying how the people you lose are never gone they'll always be with you and remembering who they are and what they stood for. After he died I was upset but him and Abe are never truly gone they are still there and so is their spirit.
@@MrLachapell literally Idk why they never had any stuff between her and Gamma, Enid and her boyfriend and Gamma all could’ve had some really cool stuff, little group of defectors
I love how you stay positive on TWD. No matter how much it declined, it was a massive phenomenon and truly one of the best Series in this world. It is a top tier show. Cant wait to see Rick again. Also S6E16 is absolutely phenomenal, never was so invested in a show as with this one.
As someone who watched the show later on and so didn't have to wait months to find out who died I really loved these episodes honestly. I can understand why people were mad about the cliffhanger and the leaks definitely would've made things worse but I was shocked to find out that this was one of the biggest reasons why the show declined in viewers
Someone that is watching episode for episode can say that the wait killed the hype for me. The episode with the cliffhanger was sooooo good and for me they just should've killed Abraham and keep Glen for the next season.... but how they did it took all the suspense because the shock was gone and the leaks have been the nail in the coffin. Only after I heard Season 9 was good I started to get back into Walking Dead.
Same here. I binged the show late too. I honestly loved these episodes so much, they were some of the most emotional moments in the whole show. I was really surprised when I found out that a lot of people didn’t like them.
Yeah but there's earned feelings and cheap feelings. If I say, "look at this cute puppy." And then kick the puppy. You're probably not interested in anything else I have to say. Now if I build a character and a plot that envelopes your imagination you'll want to see what happens. The reality is this plot and these characters just stopped being interesting to people because it had become formulaic. Negan was just the next governor, hunter, terminus, claimer etc.
@@josephmatthews7698 it wasn’t like that at all. Rick and the group was getting progressively more arrogant about their ability, Negan was a reminder that there’s always bigger fish and it works because it’s overall been 5 seasons of W’s against other groups, but Negan was the first genuine threat that was unbeatable until Eugene came in clutch
I cried like a baby when Glenn was murdered. He was and still is my favorite character from the entire show and years later i still cannot get over his gruesome death.
those two episodes were the main reason why i even got into the show, personally I LOVE the episodes of Negans introduction as well as season 7 as a whole. cause as you put it it shows the harsh realities of an apocalyptic world.
Honestly, rewatching the show, Abe's death made me FAR MORE SAD. I felt like Glenn, by that point, had basically finished his arc. But I wanted more Abe.
At the same time season 6 (and a little bit of season 4) is when he started becoming badass and grew some balls a little yknow? Would of been interesting to see him in the war with the saviors
Won tickets to see the premiere in the Hollywood forever cemetery with a bunch of fans. You could hear a pin drop when neegan came out and nothing but silence until Maggie spoke. We literally cheered at her notion of fighting. So there was that glimmer of hope for a second.But yeah the mood was heavy.
I think the people who still watch are the real shooters for pulling through the darkest days of TWD. Things never go fully how we want them to go but moving forward is the only way we can try to continue finding balance in what once was and what still can be.
I only continued watching due to sunk cost fallacy and being a fan of the comics. The show has been garbage since season 7 and am so glad it’s finally over.
First off, lemme say that I really liked everything you had to say in this video. You made so many great points, and it is refreshing to see someone make these type of TWD analysis videos talking about why the episodes are so good, and also what could have been better. But I especially enjoyed your take on the "two-death" problem. I completely agree that Abraham being Negan's chosen victim should have been revealed at the end of the season. Definitely would have solved a lot of the issues that followed, and the fans would have been able to morn both Abe and Glenn's characters properly.
I just realized soemthing about this show,Judith is the comic book version of Carl. She lives on and I wouldn’t be surprised if after all the spin off shows it will show her as a mother and reading to her kid about the past.
Honestly this is the best episode of the series you see the group cornered and the road blocks get bigger and bigger until they are trapped and seeing how scared and peerless Rick was. Honestly I love when shows and movies show our protagonists in a losing fight and honestly no hope for them, yeah I’m still bummed about Abraham’s and glens death
I never stopped watching, Glens death was a scene I'd wanted to see since I read it in the books, I wanted to see how it happened, and the effects were pretty spot on
this is actually my favourite cliffhanger, it was extreme and brought out such strong emotions that a show has never done or even come close since, that's what I personally want if I'm investing my time 😅 I didn't have it spoiled either because I stayed away from everything walking dead related until it came back on
I remember when I watched S06E16 with my father, we spent almost a month talking about who was going to die and we were super impress about it, not even close to be disappointed When S07 premiered, I knew about Glen and my father knew about Abe, we were both blown away when not one, but character died. one of the most powerful episodes that we watched
I don’t know why but I always found Hershel’s death more harrowing than Glenn’s. Don’t get me wrong, I definitely think Glenn was a more important character, but for some reason his death just didn’t stick with me like Hershel’s. Maybe I need to rewatch the season though, I think I was a hit harsh on the introduction of Negan
It's because Hershel became the groups moral compass. He was always there tell tell Rick what was right, and Rick would end up having to weigh out between what will help them the most/be most beneficial for them vs what was *morally* right, because they don't tend to line up most of the time. Usually you can do something pretty messed up to further your own goal, but it will come at a cost to someone else. Hershel dying was kind of one of the nails in the coffin for Rick because he takes to heart what the group has to say and without the moral compass that Hershel provided he lost one person who would play devil's advocate even when it was unpopular to do so. Shane never cared what the group thought. He did what would benefit him - rick actually listened to everyone.
the governor doing herschel like that,taking 3 or 4 shots to do what michonne can do in 1? it was a botched beheading and prolly on purpose to really make it hurt for rick and company.ive always said if you stuck around after herschels beheading by the governor than you shouldnt be pussing out about negan glenn and abe.
I actually really liked season 7 and wasn’t upset about the whole Negan introduction where I feel the show took a turn was Carl dying. I still can’t help but feel like it should’ve been Morgan. Also, a small little fun fact I notice nobody ever points out. If you go back and rewatch that whole introduction, it kinda gives itself away who Negan’s gonna choose to kill. Most the saviors in the background stare at Abraham even before the eenie meanie miney moe. It seems to me when I went back and rewatched it that Negan made up his mind right around the time he made a comment about Abraham’s beard. RIP Glenn and Abe
Honestly this was the point where the show regained its lustre for me. I can't praise enough how much Negan brought to the show, how captivating he was to watch. After several seasons of the 'same old villain of the year', Negan brought something new, he brought a real sense of anxiety; the good guys can lose after all. These two episodes were, in my eyes, the two best in the show that got me hooked on the show again, but I do agree the cliffhanger was handled badly - they should've ended the episode with Abe's death, and started the new season with Glenn's, otherwise done all of it in one big episode at the end of S6 and cut a lot of the filler out of the episode in the meantime.
feel the same way😭i can’t believe it make people that made during it was emitted, i stopped watching twd when i stop watching television but started watching again recently, and Negan is one of my fav characters and more interesting arc in the twd. i could easily say s6 and s7 are my favorite bc of it
I actually think Glenn and Abraham’s deaths were just symptoms of a larger issue with this kind of show and it just made alot of people decide they were done with tuning in each week just to potentially have their emotional investments in certain characters UTTERLY RAKED OVER THE COALS when their favorite characters end up meeting their untimely demises.
I mean, I kinda did, too. It was refreshing for a time to watch a show where characters DIDN’T feel like they had “plot armor” and could go at any moment. But then they started to do character deaths that felt more like they were meant for “shock value” than serving a greater plot or thematic purpose (like Beth and Noah’s deaths, for example).
@@jaythomas468im so glad you brought up noahs death! I found that death especially baseless after nick killed himself, which of course led to glenns death fake out, the dumbest shit the show had pulled to up until that point.
@@ness1278 To give some credit, Noah’s death was one of the ONLY deaths that truly SHOCKED ME; not because of the character himself or because I wasn’t expecting it but because it GENUINELY UNSETTLED ME when I watched it.
I think the rv part is absolutely necessary and not about just action and tension like you said. This allows us to learn about Negan, and I think that's the main point of this part of the episode. Negan isn't scared at all of doing the dirty job by himself. Negan doens't need the protection of his army to check mate Rick like many people could have thought without this part. Negan is just brilliant and is the anti Rick at this precise moment. I think this was a necessity to have this moment where Rick and Negan are facing somewhere else, without any abstacle between them
I randomly met Michael Cudlitz (Abraham) one night. He was super cool and it took some self control not to fan boy out about it, but I managed a, "I love your work!" and kept it moving. Made my trip.
15:56 "Able to mourn Abrahams death" .. So fcking true. It being a show, doesn't mean we don't care about the characters that are almost like our family. We relate to them, like them, even love them for who they are, and how much we relate to them
6X16 and 7X1 were amazing episodes and makes you feel so many emotions (no joke) sadness, anger and fear . The part of last day on earth when they get surrounded by the saviors was so intense my heart hasnt pounded that fast since Breaking Bad season 4 episode 11
Never caught on to the title of season 7 episode 1 being a call back to what Dr Jenner says to Rick at the end of the season 1 finale. Rick : “I’m grateful” Dr Jenner : “The day will come when you won’t be”
I never stopped watching but I was heartbroken when Glenn and Carl died, I thought it was ridiculous and shouldn’t have happened. I hated when Rick left too, but the whisperers season was actually very good and got me excited again. I can’t wait to see Rick!
When the Walking Dead first premiered I was only 7 years old. But my dad, who is a huge fan of the comics, made me and my 4-year-old sister stay up and watch it with him while our mom was out. Needless to say, seeing a horse getting eaten alive by zombies did wonders for my nightmares at that age, but from then on the show was a constant thrum in the background of my life. I also remember being scarred seeing Hershel's leg get chopped off when I was 9 or 10. I didn't fully get into the show until I was 13, when I started watching some of the season 6 episodes with my parents on Sunday nights. In fact, it was the cliff hanger at the end of season 6 that finally made me go back and watch the show in full. I became absolutely obsessed, it quickly became my favorite show of all-time and still holds that title to this day. After watching the show repeatedly the summer of 2016, and being eaten up with anxiety anticipating the season 7 premiere, I was utterly broken watching Glenn get killed. But this didn't stop me from watching the show. Glenn was probably my favorite character, but I loved so many of the others that not only would giving up on the show mean saying goodbye to everyone else I loved, but it would also mean saying goodbye to any semblance of Glenn that still remained within the other characters and their memories. Giving up on the show didn't even cross my mind, even though it became painful to watch for a time after because I was so upset about his death. To this day, only a few days after the 6 year mark since the season 7 premiere, I still watch new episodes of the Walking Dead every Sunday night with my dad and we will keep watching any spin-offs that come out of this show. As much as I just genuinely love this series on its own, it holds a special place in my heart because it's something me and my dad seriously bond over. I don't live at home anymore. I'm 20-years-old, I have an apartment in a different city while I'm at college, but every Sunday night my dad and I facetime each other to watch the new Walking Dead episode as well as the Talking Dead afterwards. It's probably the highlight of my week. So this show means more to me than I ever thought it could. And that's why I keep watching the show and any spin-off shows that come after it. It's not just my undying loyalty. I'd watch thousands more painful episodes of bad writing choices just to spend as many Sunday nights with my dad as possible.
I got into The Walking Dead when Season 2 began releasing. I was 13 then. I've been off & on again with the show. Going seasons without coming back to it. Mainly after the end of the war with the Saviors. A few months ago, I rewatched the ENTIRE series up to Season 11 after hearing it's on it's final season. At this point I'm of the "well I've come this far," mindset. It's been a great run, but BOY am I ready to see this fucker end lmao.
Tbh I feel like Carl was the smartest in this show. He was taught how to kill at a young age and was even willing to sacrifice his own arm to save his friends. He wasn’t even in denial when he knew he would die, he just accepted it and made as much memories as he could.
I'm glad to see I was not the only one basically grieving Glenn's death in the show. He was my favorite character - he had a great character development and truly felt like he was the one bringing them together in some ways. I even stopped watching the show for a few years after that episode.
After seeing Glenn die my Dad couldn’t keep watching because it was too painful. That scene was so brutal and horrifying and everything leading to that point caused my dad too much anxiety. Years after it aired he was able to continue watching, but after what happened to Carl my Dad threw in the towel. It was too much for him emotionally at that point.
I remember Watching Season 7 for the first time and hating the first half of it but I think the real reason why I kept on watching is because I truly believed in Rick’s group after seeing all they’ve done up to that point I knew I couldn’t give up on the show so I let it play out believing that Rick was faking being submissive to Negan and had a plan up his sleeve I was wrong but when I got to the midseason finale I was like hell yeah!!! its's kick ass time!!!
Honestly, killing off Carl and placing Judith in a role as this wise sage-like character, who is loved by all and never wrong really turned me off. I hesitate to use the term because of it has been kind of ruined, but she's absolutely a Mary-Sue. Like, definitionally. She's beloved by everyone, even the villains. She's way more proficient and capable than any 10 year old child should or could be be (even with growing up in the zombie apocalypse), on par with our battle-hardened, experienced heroes. She's smarter than everyone. Has no flaws. And gives all of our already established characters life advice and guidance that is not only unearned(in-universe and out), but that the established characters treat as gospel. She's an immensely frustrating character.
Eh, i both agree and disagree with you. Judith is set up to be the end goal to protect from as early as season 1. Lots of undertones about how she is the 'next generation' and will be able to fix the world. I dont like how unflawed she is, but she is undoubtedly the most important character in the show, even before she had an actual role.
@@sumpyori I didn't mention anything about her "importance". I do agree, she is important to the show as the symbolism of the future. It's the writing. She's an awful character from the standpoint of a viewer. I hate how they write her and how they write characters to interact with her.
As someone who stopped watching around that time, my take would be that it just felt like things *could not* get better. At least, not in a satisfying way. It's important to write challenges that your characters need to overcome, but it really just felt like there wasn't any solid, tangible way for that to happen. And, the show remained in that state for so long that I just peaced out.
So you wanted another cliché group of bad guys that Rick and the gang would easily take down with a couple of losses from his side, who would probably be newer characters that we didn’t even care about, got it. Things need to get a lot worse before they get better. The common complaint about the show was how safe and predictable it had become.
The thing about television/streaming networks is a lot of its viewers want to turn their brain off and be entertained, so they'll go along with whatever the show suggests. For example, after Negan's development in the post-Rick seasons, more people defend Negan and think Rick's group is just as bad because they killed his people, when the Saviors were portrayed as blatantly more evil during their run. So while I think it's silly to drop the show over Glenn, with the surviving cast still strong, I agree with when you talked about how portrayal and management of the show affects viewership. People still want to feel good and be entertained. Yes, people stopped watching after Glenn's death, but it was the delivery around it. And for that reason, I actually dropped the show during the season 4 finale, after Rick's "They're fucking with the wrong people." line, contrary to other people who stuck around for season 5. By that point, I was tired of AMC introducing a new season and taking mid-season "breaks" just to stretch it out, and it felt like there was always petty character drama that ramped up to some zombie killing, and finally some kind of war with another group. I was definitely a fan, reading the comics and even watching Talking Dead, but the pacing wasn't satisfying, especially compared to the comics. That said, I've come back to the show from time to time because I think it's a special piece of America, and there's nothing else like it. A lot of the cast seemed to have fun working on it too, the behind the scenes episodes are worth a watch for episode summaries and insights. Cheers Thrifty, cool vid, I'd like to see more as long as they don't get too political.
I knew it was Abe who got clubbed from the shot the second I saw it. I mean who else could take a Barbed bat to the head and still be conscious enough to look back up and let out a coherent groan. Dude is built like a damn tank.
DUUDE I don't care what ANYONE says, this episode was FANTASTIC. I can honestly say I have never felt fear more for my favourite characters ever than in this episode. I remember watching this with my family, we were all literally glued to the screen. Shaking in every action and every line said, absolute brilliance in filmmaking here.
I never really stopped watching the show, it's still one of my favorite tv shows out there. I mean the first 5 seasons are just pure gold. I didnt mind season 6 or 7 but it took me like 2 years to finally sit down and watch season 8 idk but it was just too boring to me like it was a piss poor war in my opinion, and killing off Carl was the dumbest thing they could have done. When I finally did watch it I think season 10 was already out and I knew Andrew Lincoln left the show in season 9 so I was bummed about that since Rick and Carl are 2 big characters in the comics, but I thought season 9 and 10 were good even without Rick. Angela Kang did a good job of bringing back somewhat of the same feeling from the first 5 seasons while also giving it a western feeling.
Angela has done an amazing job. Season 9, 10 and 11 feel fresh but familiar imo. Season 11 has had some really great straight up horror episodes like Acheron 1&2 and on the inside.
I still remember how massive this episode was when it first came out and the amount of spoilers and backlash it got. Glenn was my fav so it was brutal to see him go out like that, also I agree that his death overshadowed Abraham who was also an amazing character. I tried to suck it up and watch through the rest of the season but it was just so hard to see our cast so hopeless, it felt at points the show was dangling a carrot over our heads to make us keep watching but snatching it away last minute with a glimmer of hope or a cliffhanger. Eventually I just gave up on the show entirely, but enjoyed the hype and amazing acting of the show while it was in its prime, I’ll never forget it!
sincerely, these two episodes are are probably in my top 5 episodes, I can't say much about how bad the cliffhanger was, because I started seeing in season 10, but in my experience with these two are amazing episodes with great acting, writing and direction. And I think people thrashing over characters deaths doesn't make sense, if the show never kills the favorite characters of the public, you would never be invested because you would know that they won't die.
Abraham was one of my favorites, and his death was absolutely overshadowed by Glenn's, rather unfairly for his character. Esp considering the way he went out. Glenn was unforgivable for me (shoulda been Daryl imo), but I kept watching. Then Carl. That was the real sin. I'm talking blasphemy levels of writing off hope for me. The whole show was supposed to be about finding and building a future for him- children and future generations. Rick's exit was perfect for his character, don't get me wrong, but without him, there's absolutely nothing left of the original reason I started to watch the show. I literally don't care about any of the other characters, even the originals at this point.
Back during season 4-7 people hated Carl so much and every week people would comment that they hoped he got killed off. They needed a big mid season death so they listened to the viewers and the viewers got pissed. Literally no one liked his character or actor when he was on the show but so many got mad when he was written off. I found him insufferable in the comics and show so I didn’t care about him either way. Carl should’ve been piked in the comics at alphas border because he caused the whole whisperer conflict.
I didn't experience this show as a "story" that can have good or bad writing. It felt real to me. Yeah, we lost two amazing people in a senseless and brutal way. Sometimes in life, that happens. Seeing these people at their very lowest point gave me a deep need to see them overcome their situation and someday reach a brighter future.
For anyone who was going insane in the comment with almost 300 replies, Carl (Chandler Riggs) left the show because he wanted to go to college. He had stated this in an interview and many times on his gaming streams. Rick (Andrew Lincoln) after many years staying almost full time in the united states [he is british] he wanted to go home, enjoy his wealth, and spend time with his real family. Please, no reason to just make stuff up when you don't know what's going on. This show brought so many people together, and was so well made for a Zombie show, can't we just appreciate the impact it had in our lives and celebrate the craft and everyone who worked on it?
The big night season 7 started when my mom and I rewatched season 6 finale I already guessed it was abraham first cause when negan said taking it like a champ I figured he was the only tough strong one to do so.
Beautiful content as always. I'm one of the few who actually enjoyed the cliffhanger and season 7 in general, season 6 being my favorite of the series. Without the internet and social media, this idea could have worked but as you said it was something the creators weren't prepared to deal with. I actually drew out a massive chart using construction papers to plot out the 'eenie meenie miney mo' outcomes, as I decided to avoid online TWD content for that interim. Being a 90's guy, it was easy to do and was quite nostalgic to be honest. The outcomes were Michonne twice and Abe once, by the way, though the editing was done in it's way intentionally to mess with you head considering Negan told Rick later on that Abe was his choice from the jump. As for the roadtrip Negan took Rick on, I have a different opinion on why it was relevant. To me personally it was Negan testing Rick's limits, knowing that the man who perpetrated and lead the outpost massacre could at least survive retrieving the Axe. Honestly, I believe Negan's crew were aware of the events in No Way Out long before the incident. He saw Rick as the "A" that he is and used the trip to break him down, making his submission easier. Sorry for the rant. Love your content as always
I binged the whole show in 2 weeks so I personally wouldn't understand the pain every weekly watcher of the show went through at that cliffhanger. I felt like it was a really really good series of events that showed our main characters who'd been through thick and thin had finally hit a wall that was unbearably hard to push through which was shown through pretty much the whole season. Finally when Daryl breaks out and hands Rick his gun, we see that glimmer of hope that made all suffering worth it. I mean that's the point right. No one is at their best all the time (even this show) but it picked itself up and I got heavily invested in the savior war as if I was fighting along side them. Negan made it all the more better. The way the writers handled Negan is probably the best in the show (maybe after Daryl but I digress).
the whistling was one of my favorite things ever in a show, it was so terrifying. i also never noticed the little peace sign abraham gave sasha before he died :( seeing negan’s face for the first time reminds me of seeing ozai’s face in ATLA. the buildup of this horrible villain turns out to be just a regular looking guy, who could be any of us. that makes him even scarier.
watching these episodes for the first time in 2022, literally one of the only things i knew about twd going in was that glenn died in 7x01, my mind was blown when abe was killed and i feel like it might have had a better effect than if i didn’t know glenn would die.
I keep watching the show till this very day. I kept watching it because no matter who died, Rick was still there and that was all that matters, but when Rick left I started to let myself miss some new episodes until I remembered that he didn’t die and that he could be back in any episode, so here I am, season 11, episode 19, waiting for Rick to say "Pamela Milton who?"
I actually like this episode because it was suspenseful and you really think what could have been, like if rick took on Simon's group of saviors right off the bat...
I don't hate these episodes, but the reason the comics negan intro was so effective is how fast and matter of fact it was. He says he's going to kill someone, he does, he leaves. The show drags it out unnecessarily.
I'm glad I got to experience this years after the Seasons had aired. Because you could just pop Season 7 Episode 1 up right after as the companion piece. It made me really enjoy the episodes. But yes, framed as it was in their premiere state, it's a bad call in hindsight.
I personally think this episode gave Rick and his group hopelessness because of the situation they were in. Not because he feared Negan, but because he feared what he might do. He clearly had no remorse or honor in killing Abraham and Glenn. There was no way to fight or run in this situation because the Saviors were big. Rick could have easily killed Negan in the RV, but there would be no way to save the others. If he returned with Negan’s head, Simon would order to execute them all. If he tried to take him as hostage, it would be absolutely pointless because of how many Saviors there were. If he tried to to drive back to Alexandria for help, it would take too long and the saviors would be into him, and there was a good chance they had scouts in the forests. Rick breaks down because he knows he cannot win in this situation, so he has no choice to beg and submit. What’s equally interesting is that the countdown scene is based off a story from the Bible where God tells a man named Abraham to kill one of his sons to prove his loyalty, and stopped him at the last second to confirm.
I stuck though, season to season and still love it. Never left, never got mad, only got sad, and I will tell you, me and my dad did NOT know Glenn and Abraham were going to get killed
I read the comics back in 5th grade and then around 6th grade the show came out on amc and remember watching it on premier, it was amazing to watch the characters I read come to life, there was a few characters I was hyped to see in screen, Rick, Glenn, Abraham, The Governor, Michonne and Negan. The casting was fantastic for all these characters, looking like they got ripped out of the comics, Negan was probably the only one that was a bit off to me but Jeffrey Dean is just such an amazing actor that he plays the part so well… that is definitely Negan in my eyes, especially when he shaved completely he looked even better as his comic self, anyway I’m surprised no one talks about the comics, I understand Glenn rumors were insane back then, and I remember them well, but did no one read the comics?? Glenn was supposed to die in that scene, if anything the part that surprised me the most was Abraham dying… I remember being genuinely confused… as I was 1000% sure that Glenn was supposed to die there, I remember being sad but happy that the change happened because we as the fans could see Glenn keep going… and then Daryl punched Negan and my happiness became anger… and Glenn dying in front of my eyes became pain.. there’s been good changes in twd and certainly a lot of bad ones, but these episodes were very much like the comics and I wasn’t surprised they decided to keep his death. But anyone that’s read the comics? Were you guys also expecting Glenn because of it? Or am I the only one? Because I’m genuinely curious as to why everyone was freaking out at who it could have possibly been that got hit
I had just finished reading the comics at that point and to see Negans intro adapted to tv, was perfection. Ya the shows definitely not what it used to be. it doesn't have that "grounded gritty realism" of earlier seasons but I've been watching it since the very beginning. I'm in it until the end now.
It's interesting how the episodes A and No Sanctuary are regarded some of the best episodes despite also ending on a cliffhanger that also stops short of giving us the payoff to what's been built up. All of 4B was about all the characters finding their way to Terminus, and in the end they find themselves boxed into a train car, completely hopeless and defeated, basically marked for death, but they're all reunited and confident they can beat them, with Rick saying "they're screwing/fucking with the wrong people" and then we had to wait til season 5 to see them fight and escape Terminus, and the trailer was very misleading making out that they would team up. Now No Sanctuary is definitely a more bombastic and triumphant episode that blew fans away and ended on a happy note with Daryl and Rick reuniting with Carol and Rick and Carl finding Judith alive, but the way the two episodes are split like a part 1 and 2 is exactly the same, and many shows end on a cliffhanger where you have to tune in next season to see what happens. So why are the s6 finale and s7 premiere so universally hated for doing the same thing? Is it because it ended on a cliffhanger of a death, and the premiere was just so wrecking and demoralising?
I stopped watching at this point as well but I came back after about 1-2 years just to see what happened. Here's how I see it and why I am fascinated with these two episodes. In seasons prior the crew always seemed like they had a way out, rise above the odds, and win. In these two episodes it took away their power and you can tell that by the way Daryl reacted to this power shift and that's when it all became futile, they lost, they've hit rock bottom. The episodes were heartbreaking and gut wrenching to watch because the group we saw power through everyone and everything are now broken and unsure of their next moves. I saw this as a comeback story. Killing Negan and bringing down his army for what they've done, what they've put them through made the rise of the group worth it.
Exactly. Throughout the whole show up until that point, we’ve seen Rick and his group come out of every situation on top. So having an entire arc where they’re the ones on the losing side is a really interesting change in dynamic. It makes the show more realistic.
Season 7 episode 1 is the best premier for the whole show aside from 4x01. It was incredible. The actors always do good but the cast *really* knocked it out of the park in this episode in particular. I didn’t see any of the leaks but as a comic reader I knew Glenn for sure would go. Abraham died Denise’s death in the comics so he needed to go. His death furthered Rosita’s and Sasha’s character development so that’s another reason he needed to go. Honestly, I think the whole RV thing was just a mind game and psychological torture with Negan. He broke the group and wanted to make sure of it. That’s why I love season 8 so much. After being broken and struggling to get back together it was nice seeing non stop balls to the wall action every week in season 8.
I have never stopped watching..... Had the advantage of having read the comics, so neither Glenn's death nor the brutal way it happened was a surprise..... I cried like a baby watching the opening episode of season 7..... Thought it was remarkable that they veered from the source material with Abraham..... I agree with you that both deaths so close together was a mistake and really liked your idea of letting people know it was gonna be Abe but not showing what happened yet..... Yea the season dragged a bit, yet they were faithful to Kirkman's writing..... I agree with others in that killing Carl was a far worse mistake..... Never saw the rational in that..... Will always be Thankful for all that they have done with the show ..... Love it all and will continue to watch everything they come up with.....
You bring up a lot of fanastic points about the cliffhanger tbh and I'm now also convinced that the audacity of THAT cliffhanger also significantly contributed to TWD's decline. I always felt like TWD died because it became a terribly-paced show at the worst possible time. The writers decimated it (specifically Scott Gimple) and to this day I don't think the show's popularity fully recovered. People used to speak on TWD with the same levels of hype as Breaking Bad & Game of Thrones. I've watched TWD since S1 was airing and 100% stopped caring shortly after Negan's introduction because of the PUTRID pacing the show had after the fact. If I remember correctly: 8 episodes (2 months) for Rick and Co. to "find themselves" and gain the courage to fight > Mid-season break (2 months) > Another 8 episodes of them gathering allies and planning the fight > SEASON BREAK (several months) > All Out War (which was VERY disappointing in comparison to the comics) with another mid-season finale mixed in. I don't think this is as-painful if binging but all of the filler 100% killed ALL of the show's momentum as it was airing week to week and the big payoff everyone was waiting for wasn't executed well. Killing off Carl was also icing on the cake. Negan's introduction itself was fantastic, it's the entire reason I bought the comics in the first place. So ironic how the show fell off immediately after its highest point. I think the show got much better from the Whisperers onwards but honestly it was just too late for me and all of my friends. We used to have virtual watch parties every Sunday for TWD. Crazy to think about.
Hi! 1 month later here, I'm mid season 10 atm and honestly I LOVED the saviors arc and the development Carl got, yeah they killed off 2 big characters but Carl's development made it pay off in my opinion, killing Carl however...oop no that's where it went down in my opinion
I can live with Glenn and Abraham’s deaths bc they further character arcs and plot lines but I will never forgive them for writing off Carl , biggest mistake they made
Same here! If they hadn’t, maybe Andrew wouldn’t have left the show. And some of the things they did after Carl’s death didn’t make much sense either. To this day, I say Chandler was subtly betrayed. The Gimp and the rest of the writers really screwed that kid.
Carl's death is the most overhated plot point in the show. It's not as big of a deal as most people try to make it out as.
@@squidlytv Carl literally is the one who’s tell the story at the end of the comics he needed to stay alive as it was supposed to be about Rick making sure he is strong enough to conquer the new world.
@@Walker-ow7vj Judith's going to be able to do the same thing. Fundamentally the same story is happening.
@@squidlytv except not as clean bc Carl was there start to finish. He’d be a reliable narrator.
From a meta perspective it’s just unforgivable knowing the reason why they killed him and the circumstances behind Riggs being wrote off.
for me last day on earth is probably the most terrifying episode of twd. the scenes of the roadblocks that just keep getting larger is legitimately scary and slowly realizing that the group is cornered and there is absolutely no way out of it this time is horrific. and this was the first time we really saw Rick scared, and the first time he’s finally questioning if Jenner was right. it’s heartbreaking, horrifying, and just so good. i wish all of the show was written this good
Who the fuck is Jenner
@@Deavhrmordhau the cdc guy from season 1
Last day on earth was the most terrifying, the episode where Virgil and Connie are trapped in the house with the crazies is the scariest
Agreed, and hence why the following episode was a direct quote from Jenner.
“I’m grateful.”
“The day will come when you won’t be.”
Outstanding episode
I love Andrew Lincoln’s acting in these two episodes; He goes from confident borderline arrogant to absolutely terrified of Negan
Absolutely.
And then who won? Not Negan
@@daniig62 i mean if i get to kill most my enemies, enslave their friends and family then also enslave women as wives and all i had to do was go to ‘jail’ for a few months i’d call that a HUGE win 😀
@@Turk37man he was in jail for 8 years, you numpty. Did you forget how pathetic and weak he was crying and begging Maggie to kill him?
He didn’t win anything.
@@Turk37man Wasn't negan imprisoned for years in a tiny cell, though ?
I definitely think Abraham dying in the finale and Glenn dying the premiere would have been an infinitely better way of handling it if they really wanted to kill of Glenn.
Exactly, still have the impact and cliffhanger of the finale and when the next season opens ur right back in it
The people in charge were too greed driven to actually finish the second half of the series with any common decency.
I’ve always said the same thing about this episode. Negan killing Glenn two minutes after killing Abraham overshadowed his mourning tremendously from our characters and fanbase.
This is why they shouldn't have killed two people. Abraham was supposed to die where Denise died and only Glenn dies here. They decide to change it up a bit so what's the problem you ask? Well Glenn was a significantly more popular character than Abraham and them both dying only a few minutes apart means Glenn's death completely overshadows Abraham's. Every time you hear this scene talked about it's always about Glenn, nobody talks about Abraham dying too. It's like he never even existed.
@@BrandonFlint-ro2ns that’s exactly my point! if you’re going to kill off Abraham, at least give him the closure that he deserves. we could’ve benefited from his army tactical skills during the all out war and whisperer war. i would’ve much rather have him get killed off during the Whisperer Arc while fighting Beta.
@@dante-qt9sb Beta would've been a perfect candidate for killing off Abraham. Daryl and Negan (two of the strongest characters physically speaking) both could not win 1 on 1 fights with him. Daryl only killed him because he caught him off guard while he was fighting Negan. So him being able to overpower Abraham would have been believable and would make sense. What they did with him instead really doesn't because they spared his comic book death only to kill him off 3 episodes later and it gets overshadowed to the point where nobody has talked about it since the day that episode aired.
@@BrandonFlint-ro2ns not only that but they killed off Sasha by the end of the season?! we could’ve seen sasha and maggie going through BIG character development.
@@dante-qt9sb One of the most pointless character deaths ever and the way they tried to explain it was stupid. She kills herself so she can kill Negan? Um...okay.
Glenn's death pushed Maggie to become a great leader.Remember,in S8 hilltop only survived because of Maggie's leadership
First time watching I missed Abe's ✌ to the group. On rewatch that hit me right in the feels man. He accepts he's dead and makes no show of it, going quietly to keep Negan from hurting anyone else. Loyal to the group 100%
i never noticed that until now🥺
I think he realized that he’s lucky it was him. He had two love interests, but he knew that everybody was going to be able to survive. It’s just sad that Daryl punched him, meaning that Glenn could’ve survived.
Any fan of the show as a whole and not just individual characters can recognize how incredible these two episodes are. The fact that the writers were able to incite such feelings in the viewers is impressive. As much as I loved Glenn and Abraham, I HAD to see what would happen going forward with the surviving characters. Negan’s charisma makes him a character we hate to love, but love nonetheless, and he’s a great character on the show to date.
Fax
As much as I hate how I had to wait so long for the 2nd part, I do genuinely love these episodes for what they are and I thought they executed Glenn’s death perfectly. What caused me to drop the show afterwards was how goddamn slow and boring half of season 7 was. I was already starting to get the feeling that the show was adding too much filler in season 6, but season 7 felt like barely anything important was happening from episode to episode. After Carl died and I heard they were getting rid of Rick and Maggie, I just lost all interest in the show for years.
@@trevordavis6830 Totally understandable man
I kept watching only to see how they were going to handle Negan, and holy crap was it crazy to see how he went from loving savior to being a prisoner for years THEN finally free, knowing what he took from Maggie apologizing to him. Some of the other new characters also made the later seasons more bearable like the whisperers or the commonwealth.
@@trevordavis6830 to me the biggest mistake was leaving abraham's death as a cliffhanger when glenn was going to die too, the fact that glenn also dies made the first mystery death kind of irrealevant now you kill a character only to make the fans wait 6 months to find out who it was, then they finally find out only for you to immediately kill another was a huge mistake, it turned off alot twd fans i knew
the RV trip was meaningful. Negan showed Rick that he even can't touch Negan when they are one on one. The show declined not because of some stupid cliffhanger and not because of Glenn or Abraham, but because of decline of writing quality after their death.
Couldn't agree more. And even more than Carl's death I just can't accept Michone walking away from her kids. I felt it was totally out of character.
Many people have said the cliffhanger did it. It sure helped me decide. It was bad writing.
I honestly stopped watching after season 5… the problem with the walking dead was there was nowhere to go other than just repeating the same stakes over and over and the overarching story just never felt like it got anywhere. Pretty much went, Ricks group struggle against zombies for a time then find a safe haven. Either one of the group or a river group threaten the safety of this safe haven so they go to war. People die and inevitably their safe haven is destroyed and they have to move on again.
What’s the end goal? You would think after 5 seasons it should feel like they had achieved something but they just keep ending up at square one.
I genuinely think the decline of the show was due to this simple factor. Not due to a terrible cliffhanger or killing Glenn, I do think that killing Glenn was a catalyst for many viewers who were already on the brink of leaving. People just left because they got bored and felt like the show wasn’t offering anything new to see, simple as that.
@@jockturner1547 obviously you're wrong, because you didn't watch the show. So you don't even know how the cycle you are talking about evolved with years and had logical deviations just like in real life (finding home, losing home, finding ways to rebuild it in some new form). Even the last arc is a logical turn and even with some repetition, it brought something new (the return to civilization). The problem is that after Season 7 episode 1 (until then it was alright), the show was very poorly executed and written. Even good ideas (whisperer arc, then a new civilization) were ruined due to no longer being able to write engaging, surprising plots. The problem is not the show's ideas (if they were bad we would not be even talking about this show right now), but their execution.
@@linaskranauskas It doesn’t matter if it had subtle changes and it evolved. Pretty much everyone I have asked who used to watch the show and stopped have answered with the exact same response. They got bored. The little challenges and slightly different situations they ended up in wasn’t interesting, different or exciting enough and often felt like retreading told ground.
The show didnt have a perceivable end, what’s the goal? What are we trying to get to, where’s the hook to keep people returning to a long running series? There isn’t one. Watching people trying to survive a zombie apocalypse can only be so interesting until you feel like you’ve seen them already accomplish this goal, any changes that set them back simply becomes a frustration rather than interesting.
I haven’t watched the show but I have kept up with what’s going on and I had a lot of friends who were fans as well and they all stopped watching and various points due to getting bored and feeling like they have already seen all of this before.
I genuinely think Glenn’s death causing everyone to leave was because they fake killed him off, everyone got SUPER emotional, people speculating he survived and being hopeful. Then after like half a season he comes back, and dies for real like 3 episodes later. I know for me I actually would have been happier with Glenn dying the first time than the second. You don’t get that same emotional reaction twice. You just piss people off
Yep. The Glen fake out death in the first half of season 6 was so stupid. I’ll never understand what the writers were thinking with that.
I think the episode got the backlash it did because people couldn't handle this grevious defeat of the protagonists. this was truly the first time on the show that there was seemingly no hope in sight for the group. The closest we came to that before was the mid-season 4 premiere of the Governor attacking the prison, killing Hershel and splitting the group up but at least the Governor died and his group got destroyed, and we got Tara but this was just brutality at another level. So I don't blame people for disconnecting themselves from the show but you can't deny that it was a brilliantly acted episode that kept you on your toes for it's entire runtime. It just sucks the writing dipped in quality after the premiere.
I always say that. Peoples’ emotional were genuinely hurt. Favorite characters were murdered and there wasn’t iludiste revenge and hope. A chunk of people left when Hershel was murdered and the prison went down. But Hershel at least got vengeance, they were able to fight back. There was no hope in this episodes everyone was useless in this situation. Rick was in Negan’s pocket. There was no hope and that made people genuinely hurt. Though people say it was cause “they were only fighting people”..that’s not true. We’ve seen people die from walkers since then. We’ve seen more herds than before. It’s a lame excuse. But I definitely can sympathize for people who were hurt and traumatized by the situation the group was in.
it was the brutality of it, it felt like torture porn.
@@Laurannah101 s exactly it was just to gory and I typically enjoy gory horror
It's honestly very realistic. I remember thinking how lucky they have been for a while, besides Herschel's death by a selfish, egotistical asshole aka the governor. And I never forgave Neagan since lol
@@Laurannah101 it was faithful to the comics what else do you want 😂
Thankfully I watched twd late compared to everyone else. I wasn't part of the fandom and I didn't know anything about the story. I remember watching these 2 episodes back to back, and I honestly loved them so much. It's the most emotional I've ever gotten watching the show, their death was so unexpected. And I also binged the whole season, so waiting for new episodes wasn't a problem for me.
I may be in the minority here, but season 7 is one of my favorite seasons BECAUSE they were so demotivated and depressed. Throughout the whole show up until that point, we've seen Rick come out of every situation on top, so having an arc where him and his group are the ones that are on the losing side is a really interesting change in dynamic. Makes it more realistic imo. Having Glenn's death be so gruesome only sells the idea of them being traumatized further. It was perfect.
Same, I binged s1-10 last year and then 11 this year… I’m also the type who prefers to know if my fave character will die or not in a show like this and Glenn was hands down my favourite so I knew from very early on when he would die, that it was with a baseball bat and that it was someone called Negan who kills him. All of that didn’t take away the utter heartbreak and defeat I felt with those two episodes and basically everything until the war with Negan. But yeah I think it was brilliant storytelling and I personally think Rick vs Negan was the peak of twd storytelling simply because Rick was portrayed as so strong and able to defeat anything and we had never seen him so beaten down and defeated and I don’t think we ever will again. That emotional devastation Rick experienced when Negan was their enemy made their victory against him so much more impactful.
Weirdly enough I think season 7 episode 1 was one of the best episodes of the show, but the problem was that everything after that just wasn’t anywhere near as good. Glenn and Abe dying isn’t an issue. I mean Glenn gets his head bashed in in the comics as well so it works.
The year wait is what killed things. Being a first time viewer years after the dust had settled and being able to watch the two episodes in the same day made the viewing experience much better to the point where I didn't throw my hands up and quit the show like so many did.
I think people always point to this episode and death as the reason for the shows decline, but it's really what happened after. Yes a lot of people did stop watching when Glenn died, but if you're a fan of TWD then you're no stranger to sudden deaths of beloved characters. Also, lots of people didn't stop watching when characters just as popular and important died on GOT, if anything it shot the show into the stratospheric, so why is it when TWD killed Glenn and Abraham it killed the show??
This is exactly what I thought before this episode it was getting a bit stale and this really was an episode that was just an emotional rollercoaster I think it needed it. To some degree I think it may have been a bit drawn out for some people to watch but I guess it had to be that way for everyone to feel the emotions they wanted you to feel. As for what you said about everything after not being as good I fully agree with that too
@@seph2686 I think the introduction of Negan is definitely the shake up the a show needed. Really it feels like TWD has two era's, before Negan and with Negan
@@bishbosh4815 Exactly and what happened at hilltop really ignited the fuse and once Rick and crew met the saviours Rick was too complacent and cocky considering how they always came out on top of any situation they came up against and that was their downfall the fact that Negan and the saviours were a whole different kettle of fish to anything they had faced previously which is really saying something and what happened at hilltop is something people often overlook but when you put it into perspective well then you can see why Negan's introduction and the episode played out the way it did
I went into the show knowing that Negan would kill Glenn, but I had no idea he was going to kill Abraham too
Thats why Abraham’s bummed me out way more. He was one of my favorite characters in the show, then later the comics too , in which for those who dont know, he gets killed off the same way Denise does, bolt through the eye :(
same here. i cried more for abraham's death than glenn cause i knew glenn was doing to die. abraham was one of favorites. i loved his relationship with sasha @@ness1278
same😭
I might be in the minority and say that "The Day Will Come When You Wont Be" is my favorite episode of the show.
that’s DEFINITELY not an unpopular opinion lol, the consensus is usually either that the episode was too much for somebody to handle or that they loved the devastation and acting in the episode
Last Day on Earth is much more controversial for the cliffhanger, but I love both episodes
It's mine as well and I think it's actually a popular opinion
Did you know the name of that episode is based on what the guy from the cdc told Rick back in season 1
Same dog
Yea in season 1 last episode when the scientist was blowing up the building and he finally let the group go, rick says "im grateful" and the scientist says "the day will come when you wont be"
I think what happened in these episodes was extremely important for the show, and television.
It broke expectations, made people face a grim reality that ‘no one is untouchable, fantasy must sometimes remind us of reality’.
It was not this episode that killed the show, it was Ricks leaving that killed the show.
honestly there were multiple stages of "killing the show" and this was the first. for me, and a lot of people, this kinda turned me off from the show but i still watched a few episodes afterward and it just didn't feel right. Like he said, it just felt hopeless and there was really no telling where the plot was going anymore. Season 8's writing was just terrible, and when they killed Carl off that's when i officially quit. Never watched another episode since. and then for many people the next phase of the show's death was like you said Rick leaving.
I was sad to see Glenn and Abe go. But I continued to watch just to see Rick and the gang go to war with Negan. Then they killed Carl 🙄 and Rick left😞....That pretty much sealed it for me. Killing Carl was the worst decision they could've ever made.
disagree. the no one is untouchable thing was always established from the very beginning. major character deaths were not foreign to viewers
the writers failed when it comes to the pacing and presentation of which they executed those two episodes.
and the show was killed even before rick leaving. carl’s death is what killed it. he was the whole purpose of rick’s constant fight, which was established early in the show. when you kill a main character’s sole purpose the show is bound to fail.
and if we are being honest. viewers were already getting fed up with the format they were telling stories leading up to those two episodes anyways.
the decline of this show honestly needs to be studied because there was so much great and so much bad and so many times they could’ve repaired what the damaged but instead they made it worse.
even though i will say it got better after scott dickle stopped being showrunner but even the ending was annoying because of everything that happened before.
Watching Negan break Rick was sooo hard. Rick was always larger than life.
Having originally quit the show during the prison infection arc, i started watching the show again purely because of Negan. I knew Glenn was going to die, but i was shocked to see Abraham die. Abraham is definitely in my top 3 favourite characters, and a character i still miss
Abraham definitely one of the funniest characters in the show, the way he said words made him likeable and memorable.
@@jermainehaslam5634 Absolutely. Especially how he adapted to the way Eugene was talking. I have ASD myself and the interactions between Eugene and Abraham were just so fun
I am a ride or die fan of TWD. I stop watching when the show is finished, no matter what angles it takes. Seeing this episode tore my heart right open and I can empathize with those who quit on it. I just wish it didn't have to happen this way because if these episodes were handled so much better, I do believe the fan base would be twice the size it is today and we'd probably get more seasons. RIP Walking Dead
It wasn’t that they killed one or the other, it felt like they killed both (at the time) for nothing more than shock factor. It was cheap, I didn’t like it
@@belowaverage4721 Glenn was always going to happen because of the comics and Abraham should’ve died before that point so he needed to die. His death furthered Sasha and Rosita’s storylines
@@BoogSReviews it made sense to kill each of them in that time period but glenn's death was a shot in the heart after literally seeing Abe get his head smashed in. HORRIBLE turn of events that couldve been handled much better
@@rhadpenguin For me thats what is making TWD so intense and good
@@BoogSReviews I agree but Kirkman's comics are altogether different. TV adaptations differ in consumption and narrative needs, Abraham could've died later in the season standing up to Negan and it would've felt deserved since he had his own 'death episode.'
the line up and whistling still gives me fricking chills..... dang. I can't watch it without a heavy heartbeat.
Abe was such a badass truly one of the best characters. His last moments showed how proud and brave he was even the way he was just sitting on his knees before he died showed what he was about
Just rewatched the ep. First time round I missed that - right before Negan kills him - he does his little ✌ to the group. Man accepts his death and has faith in the others to keep going 😭
Damn right! Abraham was/is the kind of man that I’ve known and loved in my family and from growing up in the south. He was funny, willful, passionate, driven, confident, prideful, and loyal to his people. He was inherently masculine in the ways that many people find comforting, reassuring, and yes, sometimes frustrating. I loved Abe. Not as much as Glenn, but that’s mostly because I had years longer to know and love Glenn. We didn’t get enough time with Abe.
The way he faced Negan with such bravery and indignation- it was poignant, and he went out throwing a peace sign to Sasha. 💔
omg yes i feel the same way @@iamcasihart
I rewatched on Netflix. The show found its way after season 7. People who stopped watching really missed out. The whisperers especially is a great arch in the story
For future reference it's spelled arc sorry to be this kinda person I just wanna help
Eh, once they lost their way, i lost interest, i bet the show became better, but without carl im not watching it, they mutilated the story killing him off like that imo
@@ness1278They killed him off since the actor wanted to go to college. You should give the show another shot
i agree, before i watched i heard it was the worst show ever. I watch s1-6 I’m like how’s this bad and this episode comes up and i can see why but i wanted to see rick absolutely destroy negan so i kept binge watching going. the first half ofseason 7 was kinda boring to me until they go to war the other half finale. it got me hyped for season 8 and I love that season. (yeah ik i like season 8 so what) and i kept going to the series finale and after all that i’m like HOW IS THIS A TERRIBLE SHOW, It’s fucking good.
I feel 7 and 8 and the beginning of 9 are all actually good, not amazing, especially compared to the likes of 3-5 but they were solid and enjoyable and had some good plot points (besides carl)
strange as it is. Glenn is the reason I still am watching. I remember his talk with Enid saying how the people you lose are never gone they'll always be with you and remembering who they are and what they stood for. After he died I was upset but him and Abe are never truly gone they are still there and so is their spirit.
Aaaaaaand Enid is dead
@@MrLachapell literally
Idk why they never had any stuff between her and Gamma, Enid and her boyfriend and Gamma all could’ve had some really cool stuff, little group of defectors
I love how you stay positive on TWD. No matter how much it declined, it was a massive phenomenon and truly one of the best Series in this world. It is a top tier show. Cant wait to see Rick again. Also S6E16 is absolutely phenomenal, never was so invested in a show as with this one.
As someone who watched the show later on and so didn't have to wait months to find out who died I really loved these episodes honestly. I can understand why people were mad about the cliffhanger and the leaks definitely would've made things worse but I was shocked to find out that this was one of the biggest reasons why the show declined in viewers
Someone that is watching episode for episode can say that the wait killed the hype for me. The episode with the cliffhanger was sooooo good and for me they just should've killed Abraham and keep Glen for the next season.... but how they did it took all the suspense because the shock was gone and the leaks have been the nail in the coffin. Only after I heard Season 9 was good I started to get back into Walking Dead.
Same here. I binged the show late too. I honestly loved these episodes so much, they were some of the most emotional moments in the whole show. I was really surprised when I found out that a lot of people didn’t like them.
I loved this. Shows are supposed to make you feel things. How boring would a show be if nothing bad ever happened
Yeah but there's earned feelings and cheap feelings. If I say, "look at this cute puppy." And then kick the puppy. You're probably not interested in anything else I have to say. Now if I build a character and a plot that envelopes your imagination you'll want to see what happens.
The reality is this plot and these characters just stopped being interesting to people because it had become formulaic. Negan was just the next governor, hunter, terminus, claimer etc.
@@josephmatthews7698 it wasn’t like that at all. Rick and the group was getting progressively more arrogant about their ability, Negan was a reminder that there’s always bigger fish and it works because it’s overall been 5 seasons of W’s against other groups, but Negan was the first genuine threat that was unbeatable until Eugene came in clutch
right 😭
I cried like a baby when Glenn was murdered. He was and still is my favorite character from the entire show and years later i still cannot get over his gruesome death.
people aare shiping negan and maggie now LOL
those two episodes were the main reason why i even got into the show, personally I LOVE the episodes of Negans introduction as well as season 7 as a whole. cause as you put it it shows the harsh realities of an apocalyptic world.
Honestly, rewatching the show, Abe's death made me FAR MORE SAD. I felt like Glenn, by that point, had basically finished his arc. But I wanted more Abe.
At the same time season 6 (and a little bit of season 4) is when he started becoming badass and grew some balls a little yknow? Would of been interesting to see him in the war with the saviors
Same here. 🥹
Yeah tbh they might as well have made the Fake out one the true one if they’re gonna keep him alive for less than 10 episodes.
he finished his arc? he was literally fixing to become a father.
Won tickets to see the premiere in the Hollywood forever cemetery with a bunch of fans. You could hear a pin drop when neegan came out and nothing but silence until Maggie spoke. We literally cheered at her notion of fighting. So there was that glimmer of hope for a second.But yeah the mood was heavy.
I think the people who still watch are the real shooters for pulling through the darkest days of TWD. Things never go fully how we want them to go but moving forward is the only way we can try to continue finding balance in what once was and what still can be.
I only continued watching due to sunk cost fallacy and being a fan of the comics. The show has been garbage since season 7 and am so glad it’s finally over.
Dosent take much effort to consume television slop
First off, lemme say that I really liked everything you had to say in this video. You made so many great points, and it is refreshing to see someone make these type of TWD analysis videos talking about why the episodes are so good, and also what could have been better. But I especially enjoyed your take on the "two-death" problem. I completely agree that Abraham being Negan's chosen victim should have been revealed at the end of the season. Definitely would have solved a lot of the issues that followed, and the fans would have been able to morn both Abe and Glenn's characters properly.
LOVE these two episodes. This is when TWD showed that shit could get very real.
I just realized soemthing about this show,Judith is the comic book version of Carl. She lives on and I wouldn’t be surprised if after all the spin off shows it will show her as a mother and reading to her kid about the past.
The sound of a deep drum beat when Rick drops to his knees is also such a good detail.
Honestly this is the best episode of the series you see the group cornered and the road blocks get bigger and bigger until they are trapped and seeing how scared and peerless Rick was. Honestly I love when shows and movies show our protagonists in a losing fight and honestly no hope for them, yeah I’m still bummed about Abraham’s and glens death
I never stopped watching, Glens death was a scene I'd wanted to see since I read it in the books, I wanted to see how it happened, and the effects were pretty spot on
this is actually my favourite cliffhanger, it was extreme and brought out such strong emotions that a show has never done or even come close since, that's what I personally want if I'm investing my time 😅 I didn't have it spoiled either because I stayed away from everything walking dead related until it came back on
I remember when I watched S06E16 with my father, we spent almost a month talking about who was going to die and we were super impress about it, not even close to be disappointed
When S07 premiered, I knew about Glen and my father knew about Abe, we were both blown away when not one, but character died.
one of the most powerful episodes that we watched
I don’t know why but I always found Hershel’s death more harrowing than Glenn’s. Don’t get me wrong, I definitely think Glenn was a more important character, but for some reason his death just didn’t stick with me like Hershel’s. Maybe I need to rewatch the season though, I think I was a hit harsh on the introduction of Negan
It's because Hershel became the groups moral compass. He was always there tell tell Rick what was right, and Rick would end up having to weigh out between what will help them the most/be most beneficial for them vs what was *morally* right, because they don't tend to line up most of the time. Usually you can do something pretty messed up to further your own goal, but it will come at a cost to someone else. Hershel dying was kind of one of the nails in the coffin for Rick because he takes to heart what the group has to say and without the moral compass that Hershel provided he lost one person who would play devil's advocate even when it was unpopular to do so. Shane never cared what the group thought. He did what would benefit him - rick actually listened to everyone.
@dudeman5303
Far, far, far away, way, people heard him say, say...
the governor doing herschel like that,taking 3 or 4 shots to do what michonne can do in 1? it was a botched beheading and prolly on purpose to really make it hurt for rick and company.ive always said if you stuck around after herschels beheading by the governor than you shouldnt be pussing out about negan glenn and abe.
I actually really liked season 7 and wasn’t upset about the whole Negan introduction where I feel the show took a turn was Carl dying. I still can’t help but feel like it should’ve been Morgan. Also, a small little fun fact I notice nobody ever points out. If you go back and rewatch that whole introduction, it kinda gives itself away who Negan’s gonna choose to kill. Most the saviors in the background stare at Abraham even before the eenie meanie miney moe. It seems to me when I went back and rewatched it that Negan made up his mind right around the time he made a comment about Abraham’s beard. RIP Glenn and Abe
Honestly this was the point where the show regained its lustre for me. I can't praise enough how much Negan brought to the show, how captivating he was to watch. After several seasons of the 'same old villain of the year', Negan brought something new, he brought a real sense of anxiety; the good guys can lose after all. These two episodes were, in my eyes, the two best in the show that got me hooked on the show again, but I do agree the cliffhanger was handled badly - they should've ended the episode with Abe's death, and started the new season with Glenn's, otherwise done all of it in one big episode at the end of S6 and cut a lot of the filler out of the episode in the meantime.
feel the same way😭i can’t believe it make people that made during it was emitted, i stopped watching twd when i stop watching television but started watching again recently, and Negan is one of my fav characters and more interesting arc in the twd. i could easily say s6 and s7 are my favorite bc of it
I actually think Glenn and Abraham’s deaths were just symptoms of a larger issue with this kind of show and it just made alot of people decide they were done with tuning in each week just to potentially have their emotional investments in certain characters UTTERLY RAKED OVER THE COALS when their favorite characters end up meeting their untimely demises.
Funny enough that's exactly why I love twd never understood why others felt the opposite
I mean, I kinda did, too. It was refreshing for a time to watch a show where characters DIDN’T feel like they had “plot armor” and could go at any moment.
But then they started to do character deaths that felt more like they were meant for “shock value” than serving a greater plot or thematic purpose (like Beth and Noah’s deaths, for example).
@@jaythomas468im so glad you brought up noahs death! I found that death especially baseless after nick killed himself, which of course led to glenns death fake out, the dumbest shit the show had pulled to up until that point.
@@ness1278
To give some credit, Noah’s death was one of the ONLY deaths that truly SHOCKED ME; not because of the character himself or because I wasn’t expecting it but because it GENUINELY UNSETTLED ME when I watched it.
I think the rv part is absolutely necessary and not about just action and tension like you said. This allows us to learn about Negan, and I think that's the main point of this part of the episode. Negan isn't scared at all of doing the dirty job by himself. Negan doens't need the protection of his army to check mate Rick like many people could have thought without this part. Negan is just brilliant and is the anti Rick at this precise moment. I think this was a necessity to have this moment where Rick and Negan are facing somewhere else, without any abstacle between them
9:43 that was smooth holy sheesh...
I randomly met Michael Cudlitz (Abraham) one night. He was super cool and it took some self control not to fan boy out about it, but I managed a, "I love your work!" and kept it moving. Made my trip.
15:56 "Able to mourn Abrahams death" .. So fcking true. It being a show, doesn't mean we don't care about the characters that are almost like our family.
We relate to them, like them, even love them for who they are, and how much we relate to them
6X16 and 7X1 were amazing episodes and makes you feel so many emotions (no joke) sadness, anger and fear . The part of last day on earth when they get surrounded by the saviors was so intense my heart hasnt pounded that fast since Breaking Bad season 4 episode 11
Never caught on to the title of season 7 episode 1 being a call back to what Dr Jenner says to Rick at the end of the season 1 finale. Rick : “I’m grateful” Dr Jenner : “The day will come when you won’t be”
I never stopped watching but I was heartbroken when Glenn and Carl died, I thought it was ridiculous and shouldn’t have happened. I hated when Rick left too, but the whisperers season was actually very good and got me excited again. I can’t wait to see Rick!
When the Walking Dead first premiered I was only 7 years old. But my dad, who is a huge fan of the comics, made me and my 4-year-old sister stay up and watch it with him while our mom was out. Needless to say, seeing a horse getting eaten alive by zombies did wonders for my nightmares at that age, but from then on the show was a constant thrum in the background of my life. I also remember being scarred seeing Hershel's leg get chopped off when I was 9 or 10. I didn't fully get into the show until I was 13, when I started watching some of the season 6 episodes with my parents on Sunday nights. In fact, it was the cliff hanger at the end of season 6 that finally made me go back and watch the show in full. I became absolutely obsessed, it quickly became my favorite show of all-time and still holds that title to this day. After watching the show repeatedly the summer of 2016, and being eaten up with anxiety anticipating the season 7 premiere, I was utterly broken watching Glenn get killed. But this didn't stop me from watching the show. Glenn was probably my favorite character, but I loved so many of the others that not only would giving up on the show mean saying goodbye to everyone else I loved, but it would also mean saying goodbye to any semblance of Glenn that still remained within the other characters and their memories. Giving up on the show didn't even cross my mind, even though it became painful to watch for a time after because I was so upset about his death.
To this day, only a few days after the 6 year mark since the season 7 premiere, I still watch new episodes of the Walking Dead every Sunday night with my dad and we will keep watching any spin-offs that come out of this show. As much as I just genuinely love this series on its own, it holds a special place in my heart because it's something me and my dad seriously bond over. I don't live at home anymore. I'm 20-years-old, I have an apartment in a different city while I'm at college, but every Sunday night my dad and I facetime each other to watch the new Walking Dead episode as well as the Talking Dead afterwards. It's probably the highlight of my week. So this show means more to me than I ever thought it could. And that's why I keep watching the show and any spin-off shows that come after it. It's not just my undying loyalty. I'd watch thousands more painful episodes of bad writing choices just to spend as many Sunday nights with my dad as possible.
And to be fair, season 10 and season 11 (especially) are actually really good. So I think the show has bounced back a little right at the end.
I got into The Walking Dead when Season 2 began releasing. I was 13 then. I've been off & on again with the show. Going seasons without coming back to it. Mainly after the end of the war with the Saviors.
A few months ago, I rewatched the ENTIRE series up to Season 11 after hearing it's on it's final season. At this point I'm of the "well I've come this far," mindset. It's been a great run, but BOY am I ready to see this fucker end lmao.
Tbh I feel like Carl was the smartest in this show. He was taught how to kill at a young age and was even willing to sacrifice his own arm to save his friends. He wasn’t even in denial when he knew he would die, he just accepted it and made as much memories as he could.
I kept watching cause even though they took out two great characters they gave us one Amazing character
I'm glad to see I was not the only one basically grieving Glenn's death in the show. He was my favorite character - he had a great character development and truly felt like he was the one bringing them together in some ways. I even stopped watching the show for a few years after that episode.
After seeing Glenn die my Dad couldn’t keep watching because it was too painful. That scene was so brutal and horrifying and everything leading to that point caused my dad too much anxiety. Years after it aired he was able to continue watching, but after what happened to Carl my Dad threw in the towel. It was too much for him emotionally at that point.
I remember Watching Season 7 for the first time and hating the first half of it but I think the real reason why I kept on watching is because I truly believed in Rick’s group after seeing all they’ve done up to that point I knew I couldn’t give up on the show so I let it play out believing that Rick was faking being submissive to Negan and had a plan up his sleeve I was wrong but when I got to the midseason finale I was like hell yeah!!! its's kick ass time!!!
Honestly, killing off Carl and placing Judith in a role as this wise sage-like character, who is loved by all and never wrong really turned me off.
I hesitate to use the term because of it has been kind of ruined, but she's absolutely a Mary-Sue. Like, definitionally. She's beloved by everyone, even the villains. She's way more proficient and capable than any 10 year old child should or could be be (even with growing up in the zombie apocalypse), on par with our battle-hardened, experienced heroes. She's smarter than everyone. Has no flaws. And gives all of our already established characters life advice and guidance that is not only unearned(in-universe and out), but that the established characters treat as gospel. She's an immensely frustrating character.
She's no Carl, that's for damn sure.
Eh, i both agree and disagree with you. Judith is set up to be the end goal to protect from as early as season 1. Lots of undertones about how she is the 'next generation' and will be able to fix the world. I dont like how unflawed she is, but she is undoubtedly the most important character in the show, even before she had an actual role.
@@sumpyori I didn't mention anything about her "importance". I do agree, she is important to the show as the symbolism of the future. It's the writing. She's an awful character from the standpoint of a viewer. I hate how they write her and how they write characters to interact with her.
I love these 2 episodes, watching them a month or so ago for the first time the cliffhanger didnt detract from the tension since I didnt have to wait
As someone who stopped watching around that time, my take would be that it just felt like things *could not* get better. At least, not in a satisfying way.
It's important to write challenges that your characters need to overcome, but it really just felt like there wasn't any solid, tangible way for that to happen. And, the show remained in that state for so long that I just peaced out.
So you wanted another cliché group of bad guys that Rick and the gang would easily take down with a couple of losses from his side, who would probably be newer characters that we didn’t even care about, got it.
Things need to get a lot worse before they get better. The common complaint about the show was how safe and predictable it had become.
The thing about television/streaming networks is a lot of its viewers want to turn their brain off and be entertained, so they'll go along with whatever the show suggests. For example, after Negan's development in the post-Rick seasons, more people defend Negan and think Rick's group is just as bad because they killed his people, when the Saviors were portrayed as blatantly more evil during their run. So while I think it's silly to drop the show over Glenn, with the surviving cast still strong, I agree with when you talked about how portrayal and management of the show affects viewership. People still want to feel good and be entertained. Yes, people stopped watching after Glenn's death, but it was the delivery around it. And for that reason, I actually dropped the show during the season 4 finale, after Rick's "They're fucking with the wrong people." line, contrary to other people who stuck around for season 5. By that point, I was tired of AMC introducing a new season and taking mid-season "breaks" just to stretch it out, and it felt like there was always petty character drama that ramped up to some zombie killing, and finally some kind of war with another group. I was definitely a fan, reading the comics and even watching Talking Dead, but the pacing wasn't satisfying, especially compared to the comics.
That said, I've come back to the show from time to time because I think it's a special piece of America, and there's nothing else like it. A lot of the cast seemed to have fun working on it too, the behind the scenes episodes are worth a watch for episode summaries and insights. Cheers Thrifty, cool vid, I'd like to see more as long as they don't get too political.
I knew it was Abe who got clubbed from the shot the second I saw it. I mean who else could take a Barbed bat to the head and still be conscious enough to look back up and let out a coherent groan. Dude is built like a damn tank.
DUUDE I don't care what ANYONE says, this episode was FANTASTIC. I can honestly say I have never felt fear more for my favourite characters ever than in this episode. I remember watching this with my family, we were all literally glued to the screen. Shaking in every action and every line said, absolute brilliance in filmmaking here.
I love the show. The Covid section of the last season brought it back to season two vibes. Never gave up on it
I never really stopped watching the show, it's still one of my favorite tv shows out there. I mean the first 5 seasons are just pure gold. I didnt mind season 6 or 7 but it took me like 2 years to finally sit down and watch season 8 idk but it was just too boring to me like it was a piss poor war in my opinion, and killing off Carl was the dumbest thing they could have done. When I finally did watch it I think season 10 was already out and I knew Andrew Lincoln left the show in season 9 so I was bummed about that since Rick and Carl are 2 big characters in the comics, but I thought season 9 and 10 were good even without Rick. Angela Kang did a good job of bringing back somewhat of the same feeling from the first 5 seasons while also giving it a western feeling.
Angela has done an amazing job. Season 9, 10 and 11 feel fresh but familiar imo. Season 11 has had some really great straight up horror episodes like Acheron 1&2 and on the inside.
I still remember how massive this episode was when it first came out and the amount of spoilers and backlash it got. Glenn was my fav so it was brutal to see him go out like that, also I agree that his death overshadowed Abraham who was also an amazing character. I tried to suck it up and watch through the rest of the season but it was just so hard to see our cast so hopeless, it felt at points the show was dangling a carrot over our heads to make us keep watching but snatching it away last minute with a glimmer of hope or a cliffhanger. Eventually I just gave up on the show entirely, but enjoyed the hype and amazing acting of the show while it was in its prime, I’ll never forget it!
sincerely, these two episodes are are probably in my top 5 episodes, I can't say much about how bad the cliffhanger was, because I started seeing in season 10, but in my experience with these two are amazing episodes with great acting, writing and direction. And I think people thrashing over characters deaths doesn't make sense, if the show never kills the favorite characters of the public, you would never be invested because you would know that they won't die.
The transtion was so good that I have no choice but to watch the sponsored segment. I've gotta commend you for that
Abraham was one of my favorites, and his death was absolutely overshadowed by Glenn's, rather unfairly for his character. Esp considering the way he went out. Glenn was unforgivable for me (shoulda been Daryl imo), but I kept watching. Then Carl. That was the real sin. I'm talking blasphemy levels of writing off hope for me. The whole show was supposed to be about finding and building a future for him- children and future generations. Rick's exit was perfect for his character, don't get me wrong, but without him, there's absolutely nothing left of the original reason I started to watch the show. I literally don't care about any of the other characters, even the originals at this point.
Back during season 4-7 people hated Carl so much and every week people would comment that they hoped he got killed off. They needed a big mid season death so they listened to the viewers and the viewers got pissed. Literally no one liked his character or actor when he was on the show but so many got mad when he was written off. I found him insufferable in the comics and show so I didn’t care about him either way. Carl should’ve been piked in the comics at alphas border because he caused the whole whisperer conflict.
Why Daryl he's the most bad ass
The walking dead if they kept Carl: 📈
The walking dead if Daryl didn't punch Negan: 📈📈📈
I didn't experience this show as a "story" that can have good or bad writing. It felt real to me. Yeah, we lost two amazing people in a senseless and brutal way. Sometimes in life, that happens.
Seeing these people at their very lowest point gave me a deep need to see them overcome their situation and someday reach a brighter future.
For anyone who was going insane in the comment with almost 300 replies,
Carl (Chandler Riggs) left the show because he wanted to go to college. He had stated this in an interview and many times on his gaming streams.
Rick (Andrew Lincoln) after many years staying almost full time in the united states [he is british] he wanted to go home, enjoy his wealth, and spend time with his real family.
Please, no reason to just make stuff up when you don't know what's going on.
This show brought so many people together, and was so well made for a Zombie show, can't we just appreciate the impact it had in our lives and celebrate the craft and everyone who worked on it?
The big night season 7 started when my mom and I rewatched season 6 finale I already guessed it was abraham first cause when negan said taking it like a champ I figured he was the only tough strong one to do so.
Beautiful content as always. I'm one of the few who actually enjoyed the cliffhanger and season 7 in general, season 6 being my favorite of the series. Without the internet and social media, this idea could have worked but as you said it was something the creators weren't prepared to deal with.
I actually drew out a massive chart using construction papers to plot out the 'eenie meenie miney mo' outcomes, as I decided to avoid online TWD content for that interim. Being a 90's guy, it was easy to do and was quite nostalgic to be honest. The outcomes were Michonne twice and Abe once, by the way, though the editing was done in it's way intentionally to mess with you head considering Negan told Rick later on that Abe was his choice from the jump.
As for the roadtrip Negan took Rick on, I have a different opinion on why it was relevant. To me personally it was Negan testing Rick's limits, knowing that the man who perpetrated and lead the outpost massacre could at least survive retrieving the Axe. Honestly, I believe Negan's crew were aware of the events in No Way Out long before the incident. He saw Rick as the "A" that he is and used the trip to break him down, making his submission easier.
Sorry for the rant. Love your content as always
I binged the whole show in 2 weeks so I personally wouldn't understand the pain every weekly watcher of the show went through at that cliffhanger. I felt like it was a really really good series of events that showed our main characters who'd been through thick and thin had finally hit a wall that was unbearably hard to push through which was shown through pretty much the whole season. Finally when Daryl breaks out and hands Rick his gun, we see that glimmer of hope that made all suffering worth it. I mean that's the point right. No one is at their best all the time (even this show) but it picked itself up and I got heavily invested in the savior war as if I was fighting along side them. Negan made it all the more better. The way the writers handled Negan is probably the best in the show (maybe after Daryl but I digress).
that scene unfortunately is the only good scene in that season other than those in 7x01.
the whistling was one of my favorite things ever in a show, it was so terrifying. i also never noticed the little peace sign abraham gave sasha before he died :(
seeing negan’s face for the first time reminds me of seeing ozai’s face in ATLA. the buildup of this horrible villain turns out to be just a regular looking guy, who could be any of us. that makes him even scarier.
I loved Negan as a villain and as a good guy. He’s my favorite character.
watching these episodes for the first time in 2022, literally one of the only things i knew about twd going in was that glenn died in 7x01, my mind was blown when abe was killed and i feel like it might have had a better effect than if i didn’t know glenn would die.
I keep watching the show till this very day. I kept watching it because no matter who died, Rick was still there and that was all that matters, but when Rick left I started to let myself miss some new episodes until I remembered that he didn’t die and that he could be back in any episode, so here I am, season 11, episode 19, waiting for Rick to say "Pamela Milton who?"
I tried to carry on after Lincoln left but it just was not possiblr
Glen died, and I was sad. But Abraham died, and I was big big sad. I loved him to pieces.
Didn't even notice Abraham threw a peace sign to Sasha 😭
Just found your videos and love it dude. Gonna miss this show so much.
Appreciate that brother ✊🏻
I actually like this episode because it was suspenseful and you really think what could have been, like if rick took on Simon's group of saviors right off the bat...
I don't hate these episodes, but the reason the comics negan intro was so effective is how fast and matter of fact it was. He says he's going to kill someone, he does, he leaves. The show drags it out unnecessarily.
I'm glad I got to experience this years after the Seasons had aired. Because you could just pop Season 7 Episode 1 up right after as the companion piece. It made me really enjoy the episodes. But yes, framed as it was in their premiere state, it's a bad call in hindsight.
I personally think this episode gave Rick and his group hopelessness because of the situation they were in. Not because he feared Negan, but because he feared what he might do. He clearly had no remorse or honor in killing Abraham and Glenn. There was no way to fight or run in this situation because the Saviors were big. Rick could have easily killed Negan in the RV, but there would be no way to save the others. If he returned with Negan’s head, Simon would order to execute them all. If he tried to take him as hostage, it would be absolutely pointless because of how many Saviors there were. If he tried to to drive back to Alexandria for help, it would take too long and the saviors would be into him, and there was a good chance they had scouts in the forests. Rick breaks down because he knows he cannot win in this situation, so he has no choice to beg and submit. What’s equally interesting is that the countdown scene is based off a story from the Bible where God tells a man named Abraham to kill one of his sons to prove his loyalty, and stopped him at the last second to confirm.
I stuck though, season to season and still love it. Never left, never got mad, only got sad, and I will tell you, me and my dad did NOT know Glenn and Abraham were going to get killed
Me too. Me and my family have watched it since the beginning and we still do. It’s always been our weekly ritual when it airs.
@@BoogSReviews Oh my gosh, it's been me and my dad's weekly ritual too! Awesome!
A good cliffhanger leaves you asking new questions while a bad one leaves old questions unanswered.
I read the comics back in 5th grade and then around 6th grade the show came out on amc and remember watching it on premier, it was amazing to watch the characters I read come to life, there was a few characters I was hyped to see in screen, Rick, Glenn, Abraham, The Governor, Michonne and Negan. The casting was fantastic for all these characters, looking like they got ripped out of the comics, Negan was probably the only one that was a bit off to me but Jeffrey Dean is just such an amazing actor that he plays the part so well… that is definitely Negan in my eyes, especially when he shaved completely he looked even better as his comic self, anyway I’m surprised no one talks about the comics, I understand Glenn rumors were insane back then, and I remember them well, but did no one read the comics?? Glenn was supposed to die in that scene, if anything the part that surprised me the most was Abraham dying… I remember being genuinely confused… as I was 1000% sure that Glenn was supposed to die there, I remember being sad but happy that the change happened because we as the fans could see Glenn keep going… and then Daryl punched Negan and my happiness became anger… and Glenn dying in front of my eyes became pain.. there’s been good changes in twd and certainly a lot of bad ones, but these episodes were very much like the comics and I wasn’t surprised they decided to keep his death. But anyone that’s read the comics? Were you guys also expecting Glenn because of it? Or am I the only one? Because I’m genuinely curious as to why everyone was freaking out at who it could have possibly been that got hit
Thank you for making content for people who love the show, seasons 1-11
I had just finished reading the comics at that point and to see Negans intro adapted to tv, was perfection. Ya the shows definitely not what it used to be. it doesn't have that "grounded gritty realism" of earlier seasons but I've been watching it since the very beginning. I'm in it until the end now.
It's interesting how the episodes A and No Sanctuary are regarded some of the best episodes despite also ending on a cliffhanger that also stops short of giving us the payoff to what's been built up. All of 4B was about all the characters finding their way to Terminus, and in the end they find themselves boxed into a train car, completely hopeless and defeated, basically marked for death, but they're all reunited and confident they can beat them, with Rick saying "they're screwing/fucking with the wrong people" and then we had to wait til season 5 to see them fight and escape Terminus, and the trailer was very misleading making out that they would team up. Now No Sanctuary is definitely a more bombastic and triumphant episode that blew fans away and ended on a happy note with Daryl and Rick reuniting with Carol and Rick and Carl finding Judith alive, but the way the two episodes are split like a part 1 and 2 is exactly the same, and many shows end on a cliffhanger where you have to tune in next season to see what happens. So why are the s6 finale and s7 premiere so universally hated for doing the same thing? Is it because it ended on a cliffhanger of a death, and the premiere was just so wrecking and demoralising?
I stopped watching at this point as well but I came back after about 1-2 years just to see what happened. Here's how I see it and why I am fascinated with these two episodes. In seasons prior the crew always seemed like they had a way out, rise above the odds, and win. In these two episodes it took away their power and you can tell that by the way Daryl reacted to this power shift and that's when it all became futile, they lost, they've hit rock bottom. The episodes were heartbreaking and gut wrenching to watch because the group we saw power through everyone and everything are now broken and unsure of their next moves. I saw this as a comeback story. Killing Negan and bringing down his army for what they've done, what they've put them through made the rise of the group worth it.
Exactly. Throughout the whole show up until that point, we’ve seen Rick and his group come out of every situation on top. So having an entire arc where they’re the ones on the losing side is a really interesting change in dynamic. It makes the show more realistic.
The acting in this episode of the walking dead is amazing, especially Andrew who plays Rick (the legend)
Season 7 episode 1 is the best premier for the whole show aside from 4x01. It was incredible. The actors always do good but the cast *really* knocked it out of the park in this episode in particular. I didn’t see any of the leaks but as a comic reader I knew Glenn for sure would go. Abraham died Denise’s death in the comics so he needed to go. His death furthered Rosita’s and Sasha’s character development so that’s another reason he needed to go. Honestly, I think the whole RV thing was just a mind game and psychological torture with Negan. He broke the group and wanted to make sure of it. That’s why I love season 8 so much. After being broken and struggling to get back together it was nice seeing non stop balls to the wall action every week in season 8.
I have never stopped watching..... Had the advantage of having read the comics, so neither Glenn's death nor the brutal way it happened was a surprise..... I cried like a baby watching the opening episode of season 7..... Thought it was remarkable that they veered from the source material with Abraham..... I agree with you that both deaths so close together was a mistake and really liked your idea of letting people know it was gonna be Abe but not showing what happened yet..... Yea the season dragged a bit, yet they were faithful to Kirkman's writing..... I agree with others in that killing Carl was a far worse mistake..... Never saw the rational in that..... Will always be Thankful for all that they have done with the show ..... Love it all and will continue to watch everything they come up with.....
Ach, seeing glenn get hit still hurts a lot, even when you know its coming
You bring up a lot of fanastic points about the cliffhanger tbh and I'm now also convinced that the audacity of THAT cliffhanger also significantly contributed to TWD's decline.
I always felt like TWD died because it became a terribly-paced show at the worst possible time. The writers decimated it (specifically Scott Gimple) and to this day I don't think the show's popularity fully recovered. People used to speak on TWD with the same levels of hype as Breaking Bad & Game of Thrones.
I've watched TWD since S1 was airing and 100% stopped caring shortly after Negan's introduction because of the PUTRID pacing the show had after the fact. If I remember correctly:
8 episodes (2 months) for Rick and Co. to "find themselves" and gain the courage to fight >
Mid-season break (2 months) >
Another 8 episodes of them gathering allies and planning the fight >
SEASON BREAK (several months) >
All Out War (which was VERY disappointing in comparison to the comics) with another mid-season finale mixed in.
I don't think this is as-painful if binging but all of the filler 100% killed ALL of the show's momentum as it was airing week to week and the big payoff everyone was waiting for wasn't executed well. Killing off Carl was also icing on the cake. Negan's introduction itself was fantastic, it's the entire reason I bought the comics in the first place. So ironic how the show fell off immediately after its highest point.
I think the show got much better from the Whisperers onwards but honestly it was just too late for me and all of my friends. We used to have virtual watch parties every Sunday for TWD. Crazy to think about.
i kept watching cause im a true walking dead fan unlike other people who just leave cause of them episode fake fans
Thanks for not spoiling severance
Hi! 1 month later here, I'm mid season 10 atm and honestly I LOVED the saviors arc and the development Carl got, yeah they killed off 2 big characters but Carl's development made it pay off in my opinion, killing Carl however...oop no that's where it went down in my opinion