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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2024
- The Supreme Court on Tuesday allowed the Centre to provide reservation in promotions for Scheduled Caste or Scheduled Tribe employees. The order is effective until the constitution bench disposes of the matter. On this edition of ‘The Big Picture’ we analyse if there should be reservation in promotion.
Guests - B.K. Chaturvedi, Former Cabinet Secretary,
Prof. S. S. Jodhka, Department of Sociology, JNU,
Piyush Singh, Advocate, Supreme Court,
Ashok Kumar Bharti, Chairman, National Confederation of Dalit Organisations
Anchor: Frank Rausan Pereira
I think Mr. Bharti should talk factual for it is not Republic channel but RS TV.
Many like me visit here to grasp some knowledge. This not a platform to show your evident grudge against bureaucracy by giving wron facts.
Vibhuti Kumar Lloyd
Ashok Kumar Bharti is very biased .
Such people only want to pit higher caste and dalit people .
I'm also come from so called scheduledd class.
It was the first time I had to lower the volume for this programme. Not only does Mr. Bharti has no cogent remarks, he is also unnecessarily loud. :/
Aditi Bhatnagar ,it's also warm the air of my vicinity( himachal pradesh )..
Mr bharti nothing said wrong if u ignore the the the words taj mahal or minar.plz don't guess i am sc/st.
Frank is a good and balanced anchor. Doing good job 👍
Frank is also laughing from inside but not showing it....hats off Frank is the best anchor.
JNU Professor Jodhka's one argument is significant that is to make policy through empirical data. Scientific method is important in policy making.
Regular surveys and maintenance of proper data should be mandated by law.
If efficiency is so high that you built tajmahal, qutub minar etc. then why need reservation Mr Bharti? You are talking complete nonsense in this debate!
oh u are also doubting their ability(They work there or not). then also u won't give credit to Dr. Ambedkar and his contribution. Then u would say ..no! no!no!he was not belong to SC...he was a buddhist
Dharmender D he gave an instance because of some "चूतिया" like you, who do not understand the meaning of equality and just keep claming their superiority in development of the Nation.
App L History..... Keep living on crumbs you inefficient idiot ! No more response to you. You lost right to debate the moment you used abusive language in the first place. You are not worth responding to. END OF CONVERSATION.
Dharmender D आरक्षण केवल "संवैधानिक अधिकार" ही नही अपितु यह सवर्णों के हजारों सालों के पापों का प्रयश्चित भी है । और धर्मेंद्र बेटा मैं तुम्हारे बाप की उम्र का हूं और तुम मुझे मूर्ख बोल रहे ? ठीक है मैं तो नीच जाती का हूँ इसलिए तुमको बुरा बोला मगर तुम तो तथाकथित श्रेष्ठ जाती के विद्वान व्यक्ति हो न ।
Dharmender D मूर्ख तो तुम्हारे जन्मदाता होगें जो ऐसी स्वार्थी, निरर्थक और कायर संतान पैदा की है ।
bharti is sick... he doesn't deserve to be a part of this panel
and You are Chutiya!!
rishabh chaubey damn right
Frank is a great anchor. Hats off to him.
ashok kumar bharti ruined the whole debate...rstv should not call such persons on the show
I'm not from SC/ST category. But from a very remote village. I know from close distance, situation of the people of this category. It's still worst even after 70 years.
Guys, tell me one thing, if proper implementation of laws had been done by so called bureaucracy and politicians, things would have been different today.
And one more thing, if someone knows there is better place, better salary and better world altogether then why would anyone resist to go and grab it. If SC/ST people are properly educated and if our system has treated them equally and provided equal representation, definitely their condition been different today.
I agree with one point tat, reservation must be abolished altogether. But on one condition 'STARTING POINT MUST BE SAME for everyone.
Those communities crushed by ur(our) father, his father, his grand father, and his grand father from centuries. So, once the starting point is same, it's ok to remove reservations. Untill that fight for rights continues....
Anil Babu M J very well understood and said by someone from upper caste.people like you is required to take forward India
what you said was so right..i totally agree with you !!! And caste system was in fact created by none other than the Brahmins only. I guess karma is now doing its work.
Does Tina Dabi required reservation ?
Piyush Gour I can't answer exactly for this. If she has not gone through SC/ST quota, then definitely tat seat shud have been filled by another SC/ST quota student. It has no impact on general category.
I agree there exists 1% ppl who really wonderful and talented and not required any reservation, but just cuz of those 1% ppl, we can't punish 99% of SC/ST students.
Krishna Yadav krishna. Pls dnt use bad words. Try to be decent.
Thanks
Should 85% reservation 😵😵 seriously !!! 🤔🤔 ... R u joking Mr Bharti...
Politeness and gentleman behaviour is not expected from Dalits.
I think Mr Bharti wants any no. Of sc st fill civil service form they should be made IAS....hahaha
You give them job and then eventually they'll be promoted why do they need reservations in promotion. SC has become an agent of NDA and all this is due to elections.
prejudice in office is also a problem in getting equal promotion as pointed out by professor.
SURYA PRATAP I believe merit should be the first criterion and then anything shall come . Secondly as Sharad Pandey pointed out this is just propaganda to wine 2019 elections
SURYA PRATAP i also discriminated because m an ugly man ...so my boss never promotes me......i also want reservation for ugly man.....we r also suffering from discrimination........now what u will say surya pratap
Vish Singh I'm dying 😂😂😂😂😂
shaarad pandey जनरल हटाओ क्यूंकि उन्होंने 15000 सालों में देश को बर्बाद कर दिया। मूर्ख लड़की इस देश मे योग्यता को नही केवल बाप-भैया को नौकरी और प्रमोशन में प्राथमिकता मिलती है, अतः प्रमोशन में sc, st आरक्षण जरूरी ही नही अति-आवश्यक भी है।
special thanx to Piyush singh for explaining it so perfectly
thank you
I completely agree with dr. Ashok Bharti, and jodhka sir,
Mr. Bharti, sorry but you didn't put forward even a single logical and acceptable argument. RSTV should invite only well mannered and expert panelist for tge discussion. This is not Republic TV or Aaj Tak for debates for the sake of propaganda and TRP, most of us are here for learning purpose!
The word *category* is the real cause of discrimination in 21st century in India.
In Manmohan Singh government, scholars had convinced the commerce chamber to get the point of affirmative action policy in private sector but what is going on right now no one knows.
I HAVE A BRAHMIN VILLAGE NEARBY THEY DO NOT REMIND WHO WAS LAST GOVT SERVANT THERE.WHAT IS THEIR FAULT??????
DOES ANY DALIT GOVT SERVANT READY TO ANSWER ?????
I think general category should also need reservation, cut off marks for government exams are too high for general category.
SC+ST+OBC = 85% OF POPULATION.
Each speaker's way of speaking is telling about their credentials...Make reservation 100% for them and we should move to bangladesh ,dats free of such leechers.
This comment is for Mr. Frank who happens to be an absolutely great anchor. Thank you so much Sir for your patience and presence of mind. You deserve to be appreciated for conducting this show the way that you did today.
Samridhi Rana ranaji where r u frm nd do u love to talk to strangers if ya than whatsapp me 9461036320
Thank you Mr Frank Peireira. You are my favourite anchor. You are polite and patient.
Biggest mockery in the world is in Indian Constitution article 14,15,&16. It's time to chng this Constitution. From this programme I came to know one funny facts that tajmahl, qutub minar was built by by SC
Mr. Piyush made the most sound and logical arguments, Mr. Bharti, on the other hand, was just puking all over the show with his illogical and rude comments
Bloody bharti...... Disgrace on rstv by bringing him there n spoiling the mood......
most people r misinterpreting the statement of A.K BHARTI.....by which he mean that, if govt is dividing people on cast line ... religious lines only for vote bank ...how people will develop and it's nonsense to talk of efficiency. .....
..... what ever we will say, but plzz see the ground level. . .. ... SC,s st,s .... have suffered and r still suffering ....
Mera Bharat Mahan. Thanks now I will stop preparing for Govt jobs and prepare for some better alternative.
Mr. Bharti made silly mistake while he talking about 85 % reservation, but he had pointed out well. It was just a mistake during conversation which no one corrected I think
people were smiling but as the time was not enough so no one spoke but their smiles were enough to defy his ignorance
Thank you RSTv
This promotion would again forced the talented SC & ST candidate to live under the stigma of promotion.
Cast system mistranslation by British still people think,it add related birth, totally wrong misinterpreted by british.indian historian still playing on foreign hand....I born in baishya after getting PhD I become brahmin.this is the real meaning.as Kalidas, Valmiki, Tulsi and so on
Perfect
Destroy this country.
Compromise with merit.
Obsessed with appeasement politics.
3rd Class country
There should be reservations to be continued.But the merit should be respected.🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳
When things are sensitive, should be touched and maintained carefully. Reservation is one of them.must try to strike a balance between sensitiveness and suggestions . Since chain is as strong as it's weakest point, I do respect rstv for continuously maintaining professionalism.
If you have any doubt over productivity of Dalits in workforce, then please read Ashwini Deshpande's "does affirmative action policy affect productivity?" On the contrary sc and St employees are more efficient than UR candidates because they have stigma that you came through the reservation.
I am from Tripura, serving under Department of Agriculture, Tripura since 2007. In Tripura, reservation categories are UR:52%, SC:17%, ST:33%. As a part of reservation system & 100 point roster, Govt of Tripura may converts General category seats to UN-RESERVED. This results in my Dept. STs jumped 2 steped promotion to Additional and Joint Director depriving a lot of General & SC category candidates. There is no quality / efficiency judgement and experience counting system in Govt. of Tripura. Govt. stick on 1 point - 100 point roster.
If u see in my Dept. Director(1 post) - 1 SC; Additional Director(9 post) - 9 ST, Joint Director (17 post) - 10+ ST; Deputy Director (43 post) - 20+ ST and ......
PRESENTLY ROOMMATES / CLASSMATES (join in service in SAME DATE & considering merit as constant) ARE CONVERTED TO DOUBLED / TRIPLED HIERARCHY DIFFERENCE.
Now my questions:-
1. Is this not violation of right to equality?
2. In the name of uplifting SC/ST, are they not grabbing the allotted seats of General?
3. What should be the proper way of judging the quality / efficiency of Govt employees?
4. In the name of reservation how a SENIOR General Govt. Officer got less salary than his JUNIOR ST category Officer?
5. Is reservation give proper socialism to India?
6. Why off-springs of SC/ST Govt. employees got both financial, marks and categorical benefit of SC/ST? Are they not occupying the benefits of their own category candidates?
7. If 85% people are under reservation, then what is the utility of this term?
Reservation at the time of selection put the sc st candidates on equal level of general candidates, then after they are equal it depends on their work who will get promotion. If the promotion is given on basis of quota then system will not work with its higher efficiency.
The most responsible one should get promoted either he is general or other categories. There should be no prejudice.
Mr. Ashok kumar bharti people like you misleading the sc/st people..
You have done गुड़ गोबर of the show..
Ashok Bharti, don't make RSTV debate an AAJ TAK or INDIA TV debate.
Read the constiution,
As the panelists rightly said, "It's not a right to redressal but a right to access"
If a SC ST person is worthy enough to get into services (that too with reservation), then he is already on the equal platform with other bureaucracy. Then why give reservation again ??
Mr chutarwedi ji that was political reservation which was for 10 years, there is discrimination in the society, and the rights were denied historically, therefore reservation was implemented it is a remedial tool, it is an affirmative action policy, not a distribution policy.
I belong to bramin family, My concerns to eliminate caste discrimination more effective points than reservation ...
(1) Intercaste marriage . . like government could implement policy like whoever will marry with SC/ST then the other person will be provided with all the benifits of reservation.
(2) Municipality shall design residential and commercial areas like random allocation of occupancy . . Like we go to colony where we can see bramins, dalit, rajput are living in neighbouring.👍
(3) Representation of SC/ST in religious places like in temple committee, Pujaris and other religious activities etc
These are factory, which will completely eliminate sections in society and unite all castes together.
Reservation it self has not benifitd poor among the sc/st till now. They are facing most form of discrimination rather than upper level of SC/ST like government employees and educated people.
I AM EXPECTING NOTHING BUT HORRIBLE CIVIL WAR HERE IN THE COMMENT SECTION.
😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I GONNA GRAB POPCORN HERE I GO.
www.thehindu.com/news/national/24-years-on-obc-workforce-in-centre-still-short-of-mandal-mark/article21382491.ece
If there are reservation at entry level then there must be reservation in promotion not only for SC/STs but also OBCs. Today in all the govt services seniority is based on merit and promotions are based on seniority. If there will no reservation in promotions then there will no reversed categories will present at top level. There are more the 50% of population consists of OBCs in India which have just 14% group A post in GoI and have 4% secretary level post in GOI. Ex. in AAI there are 26 GM(comm) post of which 16 are general and 10 are SC/STs but no OBCs.
If It comes to efficiency, then yes reservation may be downgrades efficiency at certain level but It also upgrades more to social justice and representation. Reservation is not a poverty eradication program but for social backwardness.
In constitution of India, there are special provisions for socially and economically backwardness.Till now socialism is to much criteria for backwardness rather than economic like OBC have creamy layer criteria but SC/STs have not. All the categories must the some creamy layer criteria to get the reservation effectively. Even economically backward general candidates should have few qouta. Reservation have a limit so that representation and merit have a balance.
Tina Dabi, I respect her for her 1st rank. But, her parents were well paid govt. employees. Should she not suffer the pain of missing the pre qualification marks, no doubt she scored top marks in UPSC mains.
In words of ashok kumar bharti ,,,,"SC/ST community never demanded reservation it was thrusted upon them by mahatma gandhi ".
he should go and study NCERT first and read about Poona pact properly
is he high or what ,,,
my knowledge of spectrum and B.L. grover just got squattered.
lolz
Not going into the questions if there should be promotion based on caste or not . But what I feel is this gentleman MR. BHARTI lacks substance and quality in his debate and I found his arguments substandard . Nothing against SCs and STs coz I don't think m capable enough to put my verdict here . Just didn't enjoyed his piece of arguments. There should have been a more intellectual Dalit representative.
This will eradicate Hindustan from grass root and of course will lock the growth for india as dependency will never end. Pls anyone ask from BSP how they won UP2007 without any bollywood or forced social picture interference adoption in mind assuming money comes by losing everything.
Piyush Sigh put a very relevant point that merit cant be considered as obscure.
Decreasing cut offs eg: 45 for general and 35 for SC/ST was never intended. It is political game.
Same merit is necessary for efficiency.
Some points i can draw.
1)I think reservation should be their but only for weaker section of society (economically weaker also), their should be provision of creamy layer for every type of reservation.
2) no need to give reservation on promotion but we should fix time bound system for promotion for every person. (Specially for weaker saction but without any discrimination).
3) because if you don't think their is anything like efficiency than close all exams like upsc, ssc, ibps and start a lottery system for all.
(All will be happy no need to study and mug up these books😋)
4)all reserve cast officers want reservation in promotion as they say they represents all. I have a question who give them this position and what they do. Is any dalit ias officers wants to marry with real dalit girl (not another ias). Is their any referendum happened in our County that all dalit officers represents another dalit. Is so called 85% dalit give their vote for them. Than how they represents all dalit. Is they give their salary for dalit welfare.
5) at last i have no problem, do what you want to do, everyone has the right to life.
Though I m from general category ,I support mr bharati and mr jodhka ....We don't talk about cast discrimination but talk about reservation.. my uncle used say that there r many sc st candidate in burecracy which brilliant , always feel guilty how cast system destroyed country
Quota shud be reversed india!!!.... some might think i m foool but i have a research friends....
There shud be reservation of elites with income more than 20 lakh per year...
Eg. 100 posts. Not more than 30 posts to elites..... 70 to rest of india.... nd if rest scores more than 30th elite he ll move in 30s....
Willl work like charm
how can we trust a dalit if he is so antagonistic yet he want reservation in the higher posts of govt..... how can we middle class general category people be assured of our fundamental rights not to be violated by those top officers belongs to SC or ST category ..... that is why we should take consideration of merit whose mind is free from all such kind of poisonous ideas of division , castesim.....atleast for the top positions.....there are constitutional bodies for taking care of the grievances of STs and SCs, even for the backward classes .... but nothing for General Category which are not enjoying any kind of special status..... whole issue of reservation has become like SC,ST demanding constitutional oppression of the General Category means identity less classes....
Basically ashok kumar bharti saying is, fuck meritocracy , we'll show you what efficiency is all about !
Ashok Kumar Bharti show that From which caste he came from
Don't have patience to listen the arguments ,trying to force his words , atlast he is saying that country should get 85% reservation hahaha dimag thek hai kya ?? Kuch bhi boldiya
The argument of merit , efficiency etc has vanished suddenly with the advent of EWS Quota .
Promotion of SC/ST is okay, but exelerating seniority and protecting it in the higher cadre is ridiculous.
why do SC/ST people not leaving their castes, if it is pulling them back? Instead they are being provided bheekh of reservation.
lol...did the labour involved in taj mahal and qutab minar built these monumnets by themselves?they must be doing it under upper caste supervision.instead of harping on such useless arguments mr bharti must suggest a kind of via media where dalit representation can be increased in posts(but not abv their proportionate population) without sacrificing efficiency and merit.civil services are too important posts to be played with.
This is the shit of the reservation how much reservation they need
They need reservations for getting study
They need reservations for getting job
And now for promotion....why only about sc /St quota not on the basis of talent and efficiency of work abilities
No doubt sc and st had faced gravest problem but it's 2%who are getting benefit rest all in same situation.
But when it's time to show those 98% shown
And in taking advantage only those 2% came
As chaturvedi sir told there are schedule caste officers who excell in their career. more over today also in our society there is caste system which suppress political and economic growth of dalits. Dalits deserve reservation until India has caste system. At present in rural area no dalit has lands, our major portion of land and political power is in the hands of touchables. Supreme court verdict has encouraged caste system in bureaucracy. why there is no demand for swacchata karmachari works? why dont these savarniya ask give representation in drainage work?
Should not call people like Ashok Kumar Bharti for this debate. He is degrading the discussion to the level of nonsense.
Mr. Bharti saas-bahu ki ladhai type argument de rahe hain. I am no one to question sc/st merit but the arguments given by mr. Bharti surely showcase his merit :D :D
Frank himself is diverting the topic from reservation in promotion to reservation itself ....
Anyways this debate needs more clarification but one point i can make here is weather it is parliament or SC ... they must take consideration n representation of all stakeholders while deciding policy and while hearing in courts as well
Remove such a political instrument of bed political men.how long it will continue?
Unearned promotions will only result in increased prejudice, how is that ignored.
We want representation at all levels. As mr Mohan das karam Chand Gandhi thrust upon us this reservation on us. We want seperate electorate in India. We means SC and St.
Reservation never eliminate social and economic disparities due to their very motion to spread further discrimination based on economic and social condition. Equal opportunity instead is a very noble notion which create a better society free from inequality. When both rich and poor students go school and college together then society can be free from discrimination and the other social evils.
Mr. Ashok Kumar One question for u . Who is the President of the Country?
भारती सर आपने जोरदार टक्कर दिया है बाकी दोनों शोषक व्यक्तियो को । तथाकथित सवर्ण ( ब्राह्मण धर्म के अनुसार ) आपके वक्त्यव्य से आग बबूला हो गए है । इससे साफ पता चलता है की इनको इस बार मिर्ची कहा लगी है.
जय मोदीजी । जय भारत माता । जय हिंद । जय आरएसएस ।
Ashoka Kumar Bharati may have his point or experience, but his temper or the way he expresses would make his points unworthy. Very respectable of Frank to strike a balance.
Why do SC/ST populate this country? What is their population?
U Jzz shut up Ashok Kumar Bharti....itne salo se khud reservation leke tu Buddha yha betha hai...fr bhi logo ki sympathy lera hai...tu gatar saaf karta h to bol???.... Jo karte h vo bole to chalega.....sirf financial backward sc St should be promoted
Ashok kumar bharti next comedian....kuch bhi bolega matlab......khan se ye aagya is debate me
Reservations are to get benifits and not to develop or improve society.
reservasn in promosn for obc. obc share in gvt is less than sc in gvt. c data
Very nice Questions made by Bharati
Do u want all sc ,st candidates should be appointed in higher post..
Why did you not call dr. Sukhdeo thorat in the debate??
PiYush singH is smilinG on bhArti cloSing comment
REPRESENTATION NAHI HAI TO INHE BHEEKH DE DO BALKI YE NAHI KEHTE HAI INHE MAJBOOT BANAYE AURO KE MUKABLE
And mr. Roshan parera you are biased....
70 SAAL HUE HAI JALDI PHIR GULAMI KI TARAF JA RAHE HAI HUD HAI TALENT MUTLAB KUCH NAHI HAI
There must be reservation in promotion for OBC as well.
Rare scene of personal attack on panelist in RSTV.
Anker as well Mr. Chturvedi do' t understand the principals of reservation backlog etc and talking irrevalently it was for 10years beside unccessarily interfering with Mr bharti in fact it is representation towards demand of separate nation. They in open debate clearly are casteist what to say of guy who are responsible to implement the provisions. Reservation shall continue till casteism /hindusm
Bharti is a Republic TV stuff, Why is he here?
पदोन्नती मधील सर्व जागा बिंदुनामावली नुसार भरा😡😡
bharti needs to clean the drain ,that is in his brain ...
Mr. Bharti was an embarrassment for this show
Prof Jodhka has valid points...
I think Mr Ashok Bharti just proved the point that why we should not disregard merit and promote people solely on reservation along caste lines.
I really liked hearing to Piyush Singh though, He puts across his point in a lucid manner.
RSTV please dont bring persons like ashok kumar bharati to this show, who make personl attacks on panleists and the system itself
bhaisab for to Jo dalito pe attack karte h unko bhi is des me rahne ka haq h kya
Knowledgeable discourse
Mr Bharti might have lost track of whatsoever comments he made throughout the discussion. Most of the comments he made, makes no sense.
Reservation was not demanded rather thrusted upon. Wow! why would one do that?
history pad le bhai