My biggest issue is they charge you the price of a painting for a blank canvas. If they were cheaper I wouldn't mind having to upgrade everything but I feel for the price they charge everything should already be upgraded. How do you call yourself a premium motorcycle without any of the premium parts??? As far as dealer costs I never took any of my bikes to the dealer for service or parts installation. Do-it-yourself and save a ton of money
I'm with you on the service, I take my bike in for oil changes as I have "free" oil changes for life but every second one costs me something because they do more than an oil change and they find things wrong with it. I just take the bike back and try to figure out how to fix it myself. Right now, as long as it's not an internal motor issue I'll definitely try it myself. I don't mind the blank canvas as a lot of things would make them even more expensive than they already are, but I do agree that they do need to step it up a bit if they want to be known as a premium bike (although they do seem a bit better than the Indians I've tried in terms of fit and finish.)
I don't think Harley is scamming anyone. Part of the allure of owning a Harley is the option of adding accessories/upgrades to make it yours. I chuckle when folks mention the high cost of HD service. I own both a Harley and a Triumph, and maintenance costs on the Triumph are more expensive.
I love the fact I never see the same harley when you're out and about. Everyone changes something. As for cost of maintenance, I don't have a frame of reference. I service my Harley at the dealership and the Royal Enfield seems to want you to do your own maintenance so that's what I do. I would think they'd all be relatively close though
I agree, I don't think there is a "scam" going on. It's pretty much accepted that people are going to change their bike in some way. I look at the Road King Special as an example of what HD did to meet the customer's needs. It took what many Road King owners did to their bike and made a "stock" version of it. My Indian Springfield Dark Horse is mostly stock because it had everything I wanted. My only "mod" was a LED headlight and that is more of a "safety" mod versus a "let me make it 'mine'" mod.
Yeah, LED lights are a must for me...I thought the Indians came with a stock LED headlight? I think Harley did the same thing with the Low rider ST. Someone made a good point that they can't do everything or else it would end up being a custom bike...can't mass produce custom bikes.
No, not a scam but rather to keep the price down and each person has their own ideas of what they want to change on the bike. I bought a 2023 Street Bob and I wish it came standard with LED turn signals and ABS brakes.
Love the street bob, that's the bike I was originally going to get (why my channel is called streetsean) but sitting on the bike I didn't feel comfortable with the ape handlebars....I was too new of a rider to realize that those can be changed easily 😀 💯 it is to keep the cost down as the bikes cost enough as they are. My SG came with LED rear turn signals but I had to put the front ones on, as for ABS that's a lot harder to add.
I purchased a 2022 Heritage September 2022. I have always liked the bike since road testing an early 2018 during fall of 2017. I did not purchase a Heritage then because I had recently purchased a 2016 Kawasaki Versys 1000 summer of 2016 for all cash. Besides, I too don’t like spoked wheels, well spoked wheels for a street bike. So why did I finally purchase a 2022 Heritage in 2022? I found out that Harley was offering the 2022 model Heritage with two different wheel options, spoked wheels or cast wheels. Yup, purchased my 2022 Heritage with cast wheels. Speaking of “stock” bikes. My Heritage is still in stock form as purchased other than some functional add ons. I’m running stock handle bars, stock seat, stock exhaust (I hate noise…cough…straight or semi straight pipes), stock rear shock/spring assembly. I like the bike as it comes after I road testing the first year model. The 2022 in basic form hadn’t changed as I road tested a 2022 before I decided to purchase mine. These are the “functional” mods or add ons I have added to my bike. I added an engine crash guard, replaced all incandescent turn signals and the tail/stop light assembly with L.E.D. bulbs. I have also added a King Tour pack trunk that includes an L.E.D. wrap around combo lamp assembly (tail, turn, stop lamp). I prefer my bikes to have a trunk. Oh, I just added a set of highway pegs to my engine guard. Now, if I were to purchase another Harley, be it new or used, my preference is stock configuration.
I found him...the one guy that likes the stock harley exhaust...🤣🤣. Kidding, to be honest I don't mind the stock exhaust as it still has some rumble. Mine I like because it's not obnoxious when you're at idle or just cruising but I'd you give it the beans it gets louder. I've been looking at used bikes for about a month, and it is really rare to find a stock bike, but when you do, they tend to be more expensive. Which I find weird, but I guess it's because people would have to change a lot of mods to suit their needs where a stock bike a clean slate. For example, a bike I'm looking at has all the Willie G parts already added, I don't mind them, but not all over the bike...I would have to change some if not all of them.
My opinion of features is things like stereo systems, usb ports or cruise control and abs. Maybe seats and handlebars but really I think they fall under the mod or custom categories myself. Putting things on bikes for comfort and safety feel like features. Maybe I'm being to technical though. Anyway first time seeing your channel, I enjoyed it.
Hey thanks, appreciate it! I think you're right about those being features, I was going with what the guy in the other video that I watched was calling them. They would be mods in my books as well. Another person commented that they would fall under custom bike stuff and you can't mass produce custom bikes...then they wouldn't be custom.
Considering how many stock parts break and fall off I’d say so. 😂 I’m in 2 groups for one specific model (low rider st) and the amount of failures is eye opening. If you extrapolate that over all the models it surely must be staggering.
Wow!!! I haven't heard a lot of issues with the low rider st. Most of the issues on new Harleys that I've heard about is with the new electronics. They must be covered under warranty though, right?
I bought a brand new sportster iron 883. I knew what I was buying. That’s a beauty of a sportster you designed the way you want it it’s an open canvas. I don’t want Harley Davidson putting on high performance exhaust. I don’t like the screaming eagles exhaust I got Vance and Hynes. I don’t like the Vance and Hynes Shorty. There’s so many exhaust you could choose from , there’s so many air cleaners so many different parts to upgrade your bike are picking up. That’s why it’s bad to buy a bike that somebody else already had their hands on because it may not all be your taste but you’re paying for all your accessories.
I lucked out, I actually really liked the exhaust my bike came with, the Rinehart has the rumble when idling (not obnoxiously loud) but when you open it up it gets loud...the way I like it. The Iron 883 is the perfect example of why you have a stock bike... you'll never find 2 sportsters that loom the same unless they are brand new sitting on the showroom floor. You'd be surprised, though. I've been looking for a new (used) bike, and the closer to stock, the more expensive they seem to be, at least in my area anyway.
That's crazy. I'd prefer just a stock bike as I never really liked the Chrome look... Now I don't mind a little Chrome, though. Here they may do up one bike, but it's more to show what the dealership can do...and products they sell.
I'm realizing that dealerships in Canada (southern Ontario anyway) seem to do things differently than in the US. I was just at a dealership today and all the bikes were stock...however they do mention all the stuff you can do to the bike "to make it your own".
Harley-Davidson dealerships are franchises, the motor company doesn’t own any. There are good and bad dealerships which is no difference than automotive industry. How many car dealers try and “scam” new cars and jack up the price with nitrogen, overpriced window tint, door guards, window etching, the list goes on. My wife and I ride stock Road King Specials. We are not wanting to add thousands of dollars in options for several reason, we like the bikes the way they are, upgrades are expensive and we would rather have the bikes paid off and enjoy debt free riding, an insurance claim will only pay base price in a loss, and on trade you won’t get anything. Harley-Davidsons in most cases are a luxury purchase and not a motorcycle that is bought for basic transportation, you don’t like it don’t buy it.
Yes they are luxury motorcycles...thats why we never finance them ourselves. We're lucky that they dealerships here don't add anything to the bikes on the showroom floor, but they do offer to put everything on the bike at point of sale. Road kings are great bikes, I can't get my wife to want to ride, she prefers to be a passenger so she can just enjoy the ride!
I think this was a good video and what your seeing here is Marketing overlaping with production. The Highball was a great idea the only problem is when you mass produce "Custom bikes" they are no longer custom.. in 2023 Harley was the #1 in market share at 21% (Honda was 2nd at 17.5) . If Harley made a bike like that so many would be sold and, they would be so common no one would buy them because they would look like everyone else. (Harley People call it a "Me Too" aka Black Harley) Changing your bike, to make it yours, is huge part of what Harley Davidson culture is. Makeing it different is what everyone does no matter what the bike is. That is the huge swing to 2024 Bikes they are all sold as a Base model and you customize it after the fact. They no longer come in Trims (like ST, Special) you pick you bike and add your packages after the fact.
Yes, I agree. It would be really hard to mass produce a "custom" bike. And like I said even if you did get a bike with all those features you'd end up changing some or even all of them. We're actually looking at used bikes right now and it is pretty cool to see all the different things people have done to different bikes. A local dealer actually had 2 used Sport Glides and they are completely different than one another and of mine, but they are both black. That is something that I do notice, you can change a bunch of things on a bike but the hardest part(most expensive) is changing the colourway.
Harley's original business plan was selling bikes someone could personalize. They kind of invented the whole accessory idea. That is what I like about Harley. Not everyone wants whitewalls, ape hangers, and spoked wheels. The best part about owning a Harley is you can make it what you want and the aftermarket is limitless with ideas. You don't get that with any other motorcycle manufacture.
Exactly!!! You never see any two Harleys the same once they leave the dealership. Everyone does something different. It's great to see the different things you can do to a Harley even when it's something I wouldn't do myself, it's pretty awesome.
I will, for some yes I suppose these are the ones parked.outside the bar or in the driveway. If you don't want a Harley BUY SOMETHING ELSE. Why are you so damn obsessed with why anyone rides or wait buys a Harley. Motorcycling is a culture.
It’s become a fad to bag on HD. I don’t understand it. I love bikes no matter the brand like real enthusiasts do. I can say not all are my style or what I’d buy but I can still appreciate it. The arguing over brands is childish.
Yeah, there's a lot of small TH-cam channels I watch that were doing Harley videos and then switched to harley Bashing, and that's all they do. I don't bash harley, but I have done videos questioning some of the things that I see, and those always get more views than a regular video of mine. Case in point is this video, I'm actually defending Harley, but the title may seem like I'm bashing them, and this is my most watched video. I can't really blame those channels. I have been putting off doing a video about that topic of people switching to negativity towards harley, but maybe it's time to put it out. And I like all kinds of bikes as well, just the type of riding I do is more cruiser/touring so I stick with Harleys.
@@streetsean Right, no I agree with you. I got that you were defending them in most ways. I agree that there are some things they’ve done to make me raise an eyebrow as well. I just don’t understand why it’s become cool for people to hate them.
@adammorgan7874 I think its to gain views and followers. It's like the news, always lead with bad news as that's what brings in the viewers....shouldn't be that way but it is what it is I guess.
My biggest issue is they charge you the price of a painting for a blank canvas.
If they were cheaper I wouldn't mind having to upgrade everything but I feel for the price they charge everything should already be upgraded. How do you call yourself a premium motorcycle without any of the premium parts???
As far as dealer costs I never took any of my bikes to the dealer for service or parts installation. Do-it-yourself and save a ton of money
I'm with you on the service, I take my bike in for oil changes as I have "free" oil changes for life but every second one costs me something because they do more than an oil change and they find things wrong with it. I just take the bike back and try to figure out how to fix it myself. Right now, as long as it's not an internal motor issue I'll definitely try it myself.
I don't mind the blank canvas as a lot of things would make them even more expensive than they already are, but I do agree that they do need to step it up a bit if they want to be known as a premium bike (although they do seem a bit better than the Indians I've tried in terms of fit and finish.)
I don't think Harley is scamming anyone. Part of the allure of owning a Harley is the option of adding accessories/upgrades to make it yours. I chuckle when folks mention the high cost of HD service. I own both a Harley and a Triumph, and maintenance costs on the Triumph are more expensive.
I love the fact I never see the same harley when you're out and about. Everyone changes something. As for cost of maintenance, I don't have a frame of reference. I service my Harley at the dealership and the Royal Enfield seems to want you to do your own maintenance so that's what I do. I would think they'd all be relatively close though
I agree, I don't think there is a "scam" going on. It's pretty much accepted that people are going to change their bike in some way. I look at the Road King Special as an example of what HD did to meet the customer's needs. It took what many Road King owners did to their bike and made a "stock" version of it. My Indian Springfield Dark Horse is mostly stock because it had everything I wanted. My only "mod" was a LED headlight and that is more of a "safety" mod versus a "let me make it 'mine'" mod.
Yeah, LED lights are a must for me...I thought the Indians came with a stock LED headlight? I think Harley did the same thing with the Low rider ST. Someone made a good point that they can't do everything or else it would end up being a custom bike...can't mass produce custom bikes.
That Victory is similar to the Scout Bobber Twenty or Scout Rogue. Stock pipes do suck because of GOVT regs.
I do like what Indian is doing with the Scout. Yeah, it would be great if government got out of the way of cool bikes!
No, not a scam but rather to keep the price down and each person has their own ideas of what they want to change on the bike. I bought a 2023 Street Bob and I wish it came standard with LED turn signals and ABS brakes.
Love the street bob, that's the bike I was originally going to get (why my channel is called streetsean) but sitting on the bike I didn't feel comfortable with the ape handlebars....I was too new of a rider to realize that those can be changed easily 😀
💯 it is to keep the cost down as the bikes cost enough as they are. My SG came with LED rear turn signals but I had to put the front ones on, as for ABS that's a lot harder to add.
I purchased a 2022 Heritage September 2022. I have always liked the bike since road testing an early 2018 during fall of 2017. I did not purchase a Heritage then because I had recently purchased a 2016 Kawasaki Versys 1000 summer of 2016 for all cash. Besides, I too don’t like spoked wheels, well spoked wheels for a street bike.
So why did I finally purchase a 2022 Heritage in 2022? I found out that Harley was offering the 2022 model Heritage with two different wheel options, spoked wheels or cast wheels. Yup, purchased my 2022 Heritage with cast wheels.
Speaking of “stock” bikes. My Heritage is still in stock form as purchased other than some functional add ons. I’m running stock handle bars, stock seat, stock exhaust (I hate noise…cough…straight or semi straight pipes), stock rear shock/spring assembly. I like the bike as it comes after I road testing the first year model. The 2022 in basic form hadn’t changed as I road tested a 2022 before I decided to purchase mine.
These are the “functional” mods or add ons I have added to my bike. I added an engine crash guard, replaced all incandescent turn signals and the tail/stop light assembly with L.E.D. bulbs. I have also added a King Tour pack trunk that includes an L.E.D. wrap around combo lamp assembly (tail, turn, stop lamp). I prefer my bikes to have a trunk. Oh, I just added a set of highway pegs to my engine guard.
Now, if I were to purchase another Harley, be it new or used, my preference is stock configuration.
I found him...the one guy that likes the stock harley exhaust...🤣🤣. Kidding, to be honest I don't mind the stock exhaust as it still has some rumble. Mine I like because it's not obnoxious when you're at idle or just cruising but I'd you give it the beans it gets louder.
I've been looking at used bikes for about a month, and it is really rare to find a stock bike, but when you do, they tend to be more expensive. Which I find weird, but I guess it's because people would have to change a lot of mods to suit their needs where a stock bike a clean slate. For example, a bike I'm looking at has all the Willie G parts already added, I don't mind them, but not all over the bike...I would have to change some if not all of them.
Very good and imformative video. thank you for posting.
Thanks!
My opinion of features is things like stereo systems, usb ports or cruise control and abs. Maybe seats and handlebars but really I think they fall under the mod or custom categories myself. Putting things on bikes for comfort and safety feel like features. Maybe I'm being to technical though. Anyway first time seeing your channel, I enjoyed it.
Hey thanks, appreciate it! I think you're right about those being features, I was going with what the guy in the other video that I watched was calling them. They would be mods in my books as well. Another person commented that they would fall under custom bike stuff and you can't mass produce custom bikes...then they wouldn't be custom.
Considering how many stock parts break and fall off I’d say so. 😂 I’m in 2 groups for one specific model (low rider st) and the amount of failures is eye opening. If you extrapolate that over all the models it surely must be staggering.
Wow!!! I haven't heard a lot of issues with the low rider st. Most of the issues on new Harleys that I've heard about is with the new electronics. They must be covered under warranty though, right?
I bought a brand new sportster iron 883. I knew what I was buying. That’s a beauty of a sportster you designed the way you want it it’s an open canvas. I don’t want Harley Davidson putting on high performance exhaust. I don’t like the screaming eagles exhaust I got Vance and Hynes. I don’t like the Vance and Hynes Shorty. There’s so many exhaust you could choose from , there’s so many air cleaners so many different parts to upgrade your bike are picking up. That’s why it’s bad to buy a bike that somebody else already had their hands on because it may not all be your taste but you’re paying for all your accessories.
I lucked out, I actually really liked the exhaust my bike came with, the Rinehart has the rumble when idling (not obnoxiously loud) but when you open it up it gets loud...the way I like it. The Iron 883 is the perfect example of why you have a stock bike... you'll never find 2 sportsters that loom the same unless they are brand new sitting on the showroom floor. You'd be surprised, though. I've been looking for a new (used) bike, and the closer to stock, the more expensive they seem to be, at least in my area anyway.
For the price, every CVO should come with north of 150hp/tq and all of the bells and whistles.
They are pretty expensive that's for sure!!!
@@streetseanI’m sure you have heard of the epa that’s why
My experience has been the opposite, dealers locally have no stock bikes , they're all outfitted with every chrome clone option the HD catalog offers.
That's crazy. I'd prefer just a stock bike as I never really liked the Chrome look... Now I don't mind a little Chrome, though. Here they may do up one bike, but it's more to show what the dealership can do...and products they sell.
That is very odd. Most dealerships take a couple of each model and go into the catalog. Be interested to know what dealership.
I'm realizing that dealerships in Canada (southern Ontario anyway) seem to do things differently than in the US. I was just at a dealership today and all the bikes were stock...however they do mention all the stuff you can do to the bike "to make it your own".
they've all got us , don't know anybody who left they're bike stock of any brand 😂
So true, looking at used bikes I haven't found many of any brand that is stock.
Harley-Davidson dealerships are franchises, the motor company doesn’t own any. There are good and bad dealerships which is no difference than automotive industry. How many car dealers try and “scam” new cars and jack up the price with nitrogen, overpriced window tint, door guards, window etching, the list goes on. My wife and I ride stock Road King Specials. We are not wanting to add thousands of dollars in options for several reason, we like the bikes the way they are, upgrades are expensive and we would rather have the bikes paid off and enjoy debt free riding, an insurance claim will only pay base price in a loss, and on trade you won’t get anything. Harley-Davidsons in most cases are a luxury purchase and not a motorcycle that is bought for basic transportation, you don’t like it don’t buy it.
Yes they are luxury motorcycles...thats why we never finance them ourselves. We're lucky that they dealerships here don't add anything to the bikes on the showroom floor, but they do offer to put everything on the bike at point of sale. Road kings are great bikes, I can't get my wife to want to ride, she prefers to be a passenger so she can just enjoy the ride!
I think half the fun of owning a bike is customizing it to fit you and your comfort I truly enjoyed personalize my road king special
I like that after the bike leaves the showroom, you won't find 2 Harleys exactly the same. And your right it is fun to change them up.
I think this was a good video and what your seeing here is Marketing overlaping with production. The Highball was a great idea the only problem is when you mass produce "Custom bikes" they are no longer custom.. in 2023 Harley was the #1 in market share at 21% (Honda was 2nd at 17.5) . If Harley made a bike like that so many would be sold and, they would be so common no one would buy them because they would look like everyone else. (Harley People call it a "Me Too" aka Black Harley) Changing your bike, to make it yours, is huge part of what Harley Davidson culture is. Makeing it different is what everyone does no matter what the bike is. That is the huge swing to 2024 Bikes they are all sold as a Base model and you customize it after the fact. They no longer come in Trims (like ST, Special) you pick you bike and add your packages after the fact.
Yes, I agree. It would be really hard to mass produce a "custom" bike. And like I said even if you did get a bike with all those features you'd end up changing some or even all of them. We're actually looking at used bikes right now and it is pretty cool to see all the different things people have done to different bikes. A local dealer actually had 2 used Sport Glides and they are completely different than one another and of mine, but they are both black. That is something that I do notice, you can change a bunch of things on a bike but the hardest part(most expensive) is changing the colourway.
Harley's original business plan was selling bikes someone could personalize. They kind of invented the whole accessory idea. That is what I like about Harley. Not everyone wants whitewalls, ape hangers, and spoked wheels. The best part about owning a Harley is you can make it what you want and the aftermarket is limitless with ideas. You don't get that with any other motorcycle manufacture.
Exactly!!! You never see any two Harleys the same once they leave the dealership. Everyone does something different. It's great to see the different things you can do to a Harley even when it's something I wouldn't do myself, it's pretty awesome.
HD is a culture.
Nothing more
Hard to argue against that!!!
I will, for some yes I suppose these are the ones parked.outside the bar or in the driveway. If you don't want a Harley BUY SOMETHING ELSE. Why are you so damn obsessed with why anyone rides or wait buys a Harley. Motorcycling is a culture.
@@geo.037 I'm not obsessed, I own a Harley and love the "culture" of harley and motorcycling.
Always wondered what Ben roethlisberger was doing after he retired from the Steelers
Same weight....heights way different 🤣🤣🤣
It’s become a fad to bag on HD. I don’t understand it. I love bikes no matter the brand like real enthusiasts do. I can say not all are my style or what I’d buy but I can still appreciate it. The arguing over brands is childish.
Yeah, there's a lot of small TH-cam channels I watch that were doing Harley videos and then switched to harley Bashing, and that's all they do. I don't bash harley, but I have done videos questioning some of the things that I see, and those always get more views than a regular video of mine. Case in point is this video, I'm actually defending Harley, but the title may seem like I'm bashing them, and this is my most watched video. I can't really blame those channels.
I have been putting off doing a video about that topic of people switching to negativity towards harley, but maybe it's time to put it out.
And I like all kinds of bikes as well, just the type of riding I do is more cruiser/touring so I stick with Harleys.
@@streetsean Right, no I agree with you. I got that you were defending them in most ways. I agree that there are some things they’ve done to make me raise an eyebrow as well. I just don’t understand why it’s become cool for people to hate them.
@adammorgan7874 I think its to gain views and followers. It's like the news, always lead with bad news as that's what brings in the viewers....shouldn't be that way but it is what it is I guess.
@@streetsean I reckon that makes some kind of sense unfortunately.
World we live in now, but I'm going to make that video now...thanks!👍
Buy a HARLEY and you change everything for it to perform and sound good!
Depends what you want I guess, I think a few are ok with a stick bike... performance wise I was good but for sound...yeah gotta change that
Why yes, yes they are.
Can feel that way sometimes.