You've confirmed some of my suspicions with the calculations! You're spot on with the analysis. Warlord are dropping the ball big time on the expansions.
Have the same kind of journals and dream book. Lol lots of notes, ideas and paint schemes. Great to keep projects ideas. My project on these is basically a parallel to what you're doing too. Lol
You definitely hit the nail on the head with the 13.5mm scale comment. Warlord Workshop probably weren’t aware the Kalistra 12mm figures were a perfect match.
Great video and a good insight into both your approach to a project and the problem with Warlords pricing. Personally I would wait a few months for all the failed projects to appear on eBay!
Superb rant sir. Love the hobby plan. You were exactly right about the whole Warlord game pricing policy. If you think about limbers it’s even more bizarre!!
Your army plans look the same as mine. The only expansion I might get is the Zouaves, just so all my lined up infantry looks the same. I won't be getting them from Warlord direct but from a 3rd party with 20% off. Still expensive even then. Great video Frank
I'm alright with the Zouaves being slightly different. Being light infantry they mostly would've marched into battle in loose formation anyway. The figures are nice, though, I'll give em that :D
@@habsburgerdonkey5342 Thank you for the analysis. Seems like Warlord is using the "first ones free" or in this case cheap, that other industries use in their gateway sales pitch. I don't believe Zouaves fought differently than regular units whether they were designated as "light" infantry on not - same formations, battlefield assignments, etc. The one Confederate Zouave unit (Wheat's Louisiana Tigers - straw hats, striped trousers) was a small unit. After 1861, when their fancy informs had worn out, they re-equipped with "standard" CSA uniforms and would look no different than any other Confederate, small unit. Leaving CSA Zouaves out of your southern force would be both cheaper and more accurate.
Thanks! I recommend it. It's very helpful. It also really helps to write down what paints and techniques you used for a project. Makes coming back to them much easier =)
Great video bud! Showing the math makes you realise how mad the new warlord pricing is! Lucky we have kalisrta to expand with. I can only assume that the expansions are so pricey because they took the opinion people don’t need many of the zouaves for example so they can charge more
Thanks! =) Regardless of what they were thinking, I believe they've shot themselves in the foot a little. With more competitive pricing I really believe the whole range would have been an enormous success and not just the starter box.
I have almost the same exact plans as you. Since I have so much infantry, I am thinking of making my own zouaves by trimming the kepis to look like fez's, and using the western hats as straw hats.
Just totting up what i have to hand and wanted to add a thought on command stands and using the kallistra packs. The basic idea is to replace one strip of the Warlord infantry and replace it with a kallistra line to create new command strips, before cutting anything up. kallistra models are a little bulkier than warlord and so packing 10 to a line can be done but looks crowded, by the same token 7 looks a bit sparse but is possible, 8 or 9 figures seems to be the best fit. So....... If we use one pack of infantry (32 figures) and one command pack (six infantry command groups, for each side cost £24 (go on you know you need two packs of something else to get the offer...) then that is 12 extra command strips comparing to warlords 10 for £24 in wave 3.
I'll be looking into mixing them. I cut up a few of the strips for the command base I did and that went swimmingly so I'm thinking I'll combine Kallistra with shortened strips for command bases.
Excellent Analysis! I went all in on the Big Bundle (received last week): excellent value for the money. My decision was based on the fact that I could get additional metal figures from Kallistra, Peter Pig, etc., - if needed. I figured if Warlord dropped the ball and or the range stalled I could fall back. Now, it's not a question of falling back on Kallistra as its the only viable monetary solution. I was shocked by the 2nd / 3rd Wave prices! I understand that resin casting is a more labor intensive process but the prices are ridiculous! I find it difficult to believe that Warlord did not know that their product line would be compatible with Kallistra and - what - they simply believed that the consumer would pay these prices because it's a 'Warlord' product - ? The feeling of being 'ripped off' is certainly there and I cannot wrap my head around Warlord's marketing strategy for this range.
Yeah it's a headscratcher for sure. In one of my videos on the Epic ACW figures I made a scale comparison with some peter pigs. It's very noticably a different scale. Might work on skirmishers or command stands but they definitely don't mix.
Great video A++ Saw this pricing coming I agree it's crazy how $$$$ these new boxes are. I thought it might happen after seeing how good the price was on the starter. I'm glad I have a 3D printer and Kalistra ACW
I had grand plans too,then I saw the prices of wave two and three. Add postage and exchange rates and its crazy down under. Local stores list the cavalry for example at the equivalent of £50. I have moaned on the Warlord forum. Looks like Kallistra will reap the rewards of Warlords folly!
What's so tragic is that I can see them expanding into other conflicts... but will they still do that if their stupid prices turn people off the test run immediately? Very frustrating.
Thought I saw on the Warlord site third wave would have different cast command strips. A lot of people are going 3 stands per unit and the need for Command units is rather stiff. If using the Black powder rules plan on small units being 2 stands, normal is 3, and large is 4. Extra small could be a single stand.
Your planning everything out on paper makes things very clear and I commend you on doing so. I am puzzled by the fact that everyone who has posted seems to be using 3 regiments/battalions per brigade. Is this something that the rules are suggesting? Virtually all brigades in the US Civil War were comprised of 4 and sometimes 5 regiments/battalions. Your rant and reasoning is excellent and makes 100% sense. Also using 3 stands instead of the recommended 5 is great as well.
No my decision is more one of convenience and possibility. It's an "in my head" organisation rather than an on field one. I would adjust the brigade sizes as required by OOB or mix them up in "what if" games. Chunks of 3 Regiments are also easier to paint :D
I'm glad I'm not the only one who suspected that Wargames workshop would try this. Lure them in and then bump up the prices on the rest of the range thinking that the odd scale locked them in. This kind of sneaky practice leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Luckily Kalistra has put quite a hole in their plans. Now they have shown their colours we will be wary of any other 'epic' ranges.
You are absolutely right. A further note to your comments. The new Wave 2 Bundles they offer also make little sense the way they put them together. I decided now not to buy all I planned, no Zouaves, no Iron Brigade, no unmounted Cavalry, no Wagon or Limber. I probably just get 2 Command Strips & 2 Sets of Cavalry (found them at about 30% preorder discount at a FLGS...) and done. Skirmishers I might use Kalistra, for unmounted Cavalry I ll use markers for the time being ...
It's a shame. It really is. I think they had a winning formula on their hands here. I hope they don't just abandon it and come to their senses because this could have seen similar success to Flames of War... Could've opened historical up for a whole new market. And they bungled it before the first people even received their starters -.-
@@habsburgerdonkey5342 I will wait Until I see the final prices my FLGS is going to make for unmounted Cavalry and the Skirmishers. If they are allowed to sell them too and if he can make 30% discount, I might reconsider
Another well thought out video, that seems to echo the feeling of many people - at least on YT. Your planning seems a very close match to mine, going with kallistra models to fill in the gaps. Consider transferring the Confederate command strips over to the union, to give an extra 12 double flag commands, exchanging for infantry strips. This gives you more bang for your buck with the kallistra commands as you really only need one flag One thing i am doing to save a bit of cash is combining my cavalry bases as mounted and dismounted and use a marker or token to show their status. I do more "western theatre" games so this is a sort of nod towards bedford forrest. You might want to look at pendraken miniatures 10mm range for some variety in your zouaves - fez, turbans, straw hats and kepi all feature. The figures are smaller but slimmer than kallistra but is they are based together and if you use an additional shim/base under them on a wargames table they do not really stand out (Have a look at kallistra's antietam blog, which has them used with their minis. Cost wise much as kallistra, but might take a little longer to arrive. Look forward to watching your progess
I know they dropped that through the war but I really love the look of the confederate units with battle flag and state flag.... so even if it's not totally historical I think I'll add them in at least some units. I'll probably hand convert some of the extra strips I'll end up with to command strips. I'll see how that goes and post a video when I do. I have some pendraken and I find the difference a bit too jarring. I might use some of the figures as skirmishers if I'm short after my Kallistra order.
I would be more sold on the Epic battles if I could have easily have spit the infantry strips into five figures so as to give 30mm bases instead of the fiXed 60mm base
Great analysis, nothing beats actually doing the math to compare costs. Warlord definitely seems to be trying to position themselves as the GW of historical wargaming. Their bolt-action plastic infantry seem overpriced to me also. Love your notebook and army planing sketches!
I think their Bolt Action stuff is still fine. 25 figures for 30ish $? That's ok considering how wide the range is. But this... it's really hard to argue this doesn't smell like early 2000s GW. I've seen very very little defense of it, even from the stoutest fans.
@@habsburgerdonkey5342 US prices you got 30 dudes for $48 with plastics, which is pretty high IMHO. You can find the sets for way cheaper on eBay and amazon, which is what I did for the armies I just started.
What's really weird is that the supplemental command strips are listed as being in metal, as are the limbers and wagons. I just don't understand how Warlord thinks their new resin is a better value for the customer than metal. All of the SPQR stuff that was recast in resin sells for more than the metal models they replaced, or in some cases still sell. The prices for the resin Dredd stuff are crazy, even with a license being involved. It's like they forgot to pass the savings from cheaper moulds and materials on to the customer. Warlord really should have done a single extra plastic sprue with one regiment of cav and one regiment of dismounted right off the bat. They would sell loads of them and all the extra little bits like Zouaves, Iron, etc would not be that big of a deal pay a little extra for.
Exactly! Or even have a few Warmaster style short strips of skirmishers hidden away on a cavalry and infantry sprue. By the time you have enough of those you'd have enough skirmishers too. They could have sold the starter for a higher price, still would have been a hugely competitive bargain and it would have sold so much better. Maybe even bring in Kallistra on a licensing deal, pack their figures into epic ACW boxes for extras... but no. Whatever this is. -.-
Have they got themselves stuck with the 3rd party pricing? I got the starter set for £65 posted from Zatu games. Are Warlord priced on the basis that you'd actually be buying them for 20-30% less from a 3rd party? Kallistra only selling direct so you just get their actual price straight away. I'm new to ACW and this scale so wanted full units rather than chopping things around. I got a code for 10% off and pre-ordered this weekend for double points, so it does come out a bit cheaper, but it still feels bad for some of the stuff. However, I've gone Kallistra for my limbers which don't need to be mixed with other bases, and will be checking every new release against Kallistra alternatives.
Totally agree with your comments and I am disappointed with Warlords pricing strategy with this. So for that reason 'I am out'...and shall continue to play ACW with Richard Borgs Battle Cry ha ha!
Fair. Sadly I think a lot of potential customers will be turned away by this decision. It's a shame really... I wish they had realised the potential of this type of product and started it off with an incredible value, then expand into other conflicts and grow it immensely from there. This way I feel we might get robbed of some of that...
Buy your army in small packs make each purchase just the 6 packs. I have found so far that smaller parcels do not attract duties. Great video. I have made the same conclusion. And all the Warlord waves 2 and 3 are just resin and the cast I have seen are not as good as metal castings.
I’ve really stopped shopping directly from warlord as their conversion rates and their pricing on their sets don’t make sense. I remember when spqr came out and I saw , for example , 20 Gauls for a similar price as 40 from the hail caesar boxing. Couple that and with the higher prices after converting to Canadian or American dollars (which are jacked up from the gbp） nothing on the site is worth it. I end up buying from eBay sellers who properly convert the GBP. Perhaps the weird prices this way make more sense with the acw stuff if it’s in gbp? Probably not!
No it's a mess I agree... It's also been a very long time since I looked at one of their sales and thought "ooooh yes! That's a good deal!" :D It's usually now "eeeeeh... I don't need half this trash I need to put in my basket to get the bonus"
I go through Amazon Being in the US, eBay causes me concerns with fake postings of crap for sale... I too play SPQR, Hail Caesar and Black Powder, so have to watch what I spend money on and where... Warlord Game's pricing is frankly just stupid esp. for outside of the UK...
@@mako2350 yeah I don’t like how warlord upped prices and put some expensive shipping on things . I buy from eBay these days which still ships relatively decently to Canada if you find the right seller. Amazon’s a bit too high for me.
Warlord wouldn't be Warlord if they didn't screw up somewhere. I'm trying to place myself in their strategy meeting for this game and figure out how they could come up with such ridiculous prices.
They are probably banking on that "complete product line" market I mentioned in my first video on this subject. A lot of converts from GW these days really enjoy being able to get a complete experience from one company... I'm just not convinced that works in the historical market YET.
You really have to wonder what Warlord were thinking for the 3rd wave figs. I don't mind spending extra on unique looking troops, especially since they'll have rules that make them "better" to begin with in-game. But to price things that are TOTALLY OPTIONAL at the price point they did makes literally no sense.
I already have a substantial investment in ACW 15mm but I keep toying with the idea of moving down to 10mm. If the original boxes had been 10mm, and had been designed to work with the basing for existing rulesets then I'd have been having a big think - I suspect that if they had done groups of 5 men rather than 10 men per strip you could fit each strip on a 1" /25mm (as it looks like they are doing with the Zouaves) base which is pretty much the "standard". This would have allowed gamers to use existing rules such as Fire n Fury, Johnny Reb, Guns at Gettysburg and Pickett's Charge and would have boosted sales of the basic figures, if not their rules. I can't really see how Warlord can call the game "epic" when you're going to be severely limited in the number of regiments that you can deploy on the table with the rules as written - if you are using a six foot by four foot table you'd be lucky to fit two historical brigades per side on the board with the rules as written. So frankly, even if I was coming in to the period cold the package just doesn't appeal. As it is, the whole thing looks kind of half assed to me.
Sadly I think that's exactly what they're doing and it's really annoying. Cause I don't hate their products... but I dropped GW, I'll definitely drop wargaming if they keep this crap up :D
I agree with you warlord Are doing a Games workshop sneaky move with the prices. When I finally left the GW Obsession I went back to ww2 and the prices are great but like all companies That get bigger they do start to think of the £ before people.
I don't even mind companies minding profits. But this, much like early 2000s GW, is not even smart business. :D Wargaming is just not an average market. Some people are fanatical about brand loyalty but at least as many are not and will drop you like a squirming rat if you annoy them with price gouging and such.
I so agree with you warlord are going to lose out big time they might as well stand and give profit to their competitors because they will lose people who have followed warlord just because they were and I say we're good value simply because how many other ranges are they considering hiking the prices do they not understand you keep your customers sweet or you risk your business as you said games workshop lost a lot of customers their only saving grace is that they cornered the market on fantasy and have no real competition , I sorry warlord but you have a lot of competition be careful. Take care my friend Terry
I think what saved GW is that they appeared to "reform" for a while there... they're now falling back into their old shitty ways but they garnered a whole new generation of customers to dissapoint :D
Kallistra in metal and Warlord games is plastic, call me old school, I will take metal over plastic any day and at less than half the cost!!! Kallistra it is... Warlord Games is getting almost as bad as 40k and AOS pricing, I stopped buying and playing 40K etc due to their pricing. I remember when you could get 3 metal figs in AK(USA) for under $4 USD now those same 3 figs are close to or over $40 buck for plastic... Count me out. If Warlord Games isn't careful they will loose a lot of paying customers due to pricing, I don't care how good the fluff is!!!
You've confirmed some of my suspicions with the calculations! You're spot on with the analysis. Warlord are dropping the ball big time on the expansions.
Have the same kind of journals and dream book. Lol lots of notes, ideas and paint schemes. Great to keep projects ideas. My project on these is basically a parallel to what you're doing too. Lol
You definitely hit the nail on the head with the 13.5mm scale comment. Warlord Workshop probably weren’t aware the Kalistra 12mm figures were a perfect match.
That is certainly a possibility and I'm being very charitable in assuming they did know... ;)
@@habsburgerdonkey5342 - I just hope WG doesn't try and buy out Kallistra....
Great video and a good insight into both your approach to a project and the problem with Warlords pricing. Personally I would wait a few months for all the failed projects to appear on eBay!
Haha! Yeah that's a good way of doing it, too.
Superb rant sir. Love the hobby plan.
You were exactly right about the whole Warlord game pricing policy.
If you think about limbers it’s even more bizarre!!
Yeah I forgot to mention them. 15€ for one limber... just crazy... 45 for a battery of 3... just for what's essentially tokens... I'm not Rockefeller.
I am going to use 3 bases to a brigades, and had the idea of putting one row on a base to use a skirmishers or dismounted cavalry.
Interesting! I suppose if you shorten the muskets a bit they can definitely stand in for dismounted cavalry!
Your army plans look the same as mine. The only expansion I might get is the Zouaves, just so all my lined up infantry looks the same. I won't be getting them from Warlord direct but from a 3rd party with 20% off. Still expensive even then. Great video Frank
I'm alright with the Zouaves being slightly different. Being light infantry they mostly would've marched into battle in loose formation anyway. The figures are nice, though, I'll give em that :D
@@habsburgerdonkey5342 Thank you for the analysis. Seems like Warlord is using the "first ones free" or in this case cheap, that other industries use in their gateway sales pitch.
I don't believe Zouaves fought differently than regular units whether they were designated as "light" infantry on not - same formations, battlefield assignments, etc.
The one Confederate Zouave unit (Wheat's Louisiana Tigers - straw hats, striped trousers) was a small unit. After 1861, when their fancy informs had worn out, they re-equipped with "standard" CSA uniforms and would look no different than any other Confederate, small unit. Leaving CSA Zouaves out of your southern force would be both cheaper and more accurate.
I like the journal planning method.
Thanks! I recommend it. It's very helpful. It also really helps to write down what paints and techniques you used for a project. Makes coming back to them much easier =)
Great video bud! Showing the math makes you realise how mad the new warlord pricing is! Lucky we have kalisrta to expand with. I can only assume that the expansions are so pricey because they took the opinion people don’t need many of the zouaves for example so they can charge more
Thanks! =) Regardless of what they were thinking, I believe they've shot themselves in the foot a little. With more competitive pricing I really believe the whole range would have been an enormous success and not just the starter box.
I have almost the same exact plans as you. Since I have so much infantry, I am thinking of making my own zouaves by trimming the kepis to look like fez's, and using the western hats as straw hats.
Mhm that's a good idea. Could definitely work! I'll have to give that a try on one of my leftover strips =)
Just totting up what i have to hand and wanted to add a thought on command stands and using the kallistra packs.
The basic idea is to replace one strip of the Warlord infantry and replace it with a kallistra line to create new command strips, before cutting anything up. kallistra models are a little bulkier than warlord and so packing 10 to a line can be done but looks crowded, by the same token 7 looks a bit sparse but is possible, 8 or 9 figures seems to be the best fit. So.......
If we use one pack of infantry (32 figures) and one command pack (six infantry command groups, for each side cost £24 (go on you know you need two packs of something else to get the offer...) then that is 12 extra command strips comparing to warlords 10 for £24 in wave 3.
I'll be looking into mixing them. I cut up a few of the strips for the command base I did and that went swimmingly so I'm thinking I'll combine Kallistra with shortened strips for command bases.
I think they'll sell a lot of starter boxes and not much else. Kallistra will do very nicely!
Makes good sence to draw what you have/need.
Excellent Analysis! I went all in on the Big Bundle (received last week): excellent value for the money.
My decision was based on the fact that I could get additional metal figures from Kallistra, Peter Pig, etc., - if needed.
I figured if Warlord dropped the ball and or the range stalled I could fall back. Now, it's not a question of falling back on Kallistra as its the only viable monetary solution.
I was shocked by the 2nd / 3rd Wave prices!
I understand that resin casting is a more labor intensive process but the prices are ridiculous!
I find it difficult to believe that Warlord did not know that their product line would be compatible with Kallistra and - what - they simply believed that the consumer would pay these prices because it's a 'Warlord' product - ?
The feeling of being 'ripped off' is certainly there and I cannot wrap my head around Warlord's marketing strategy for this range.
Yeah it's a headscratcher for sure. In one of my videos on the Epic ACW figures I made a scale comparison with some peter pigs. It's very noticably a different scale. Might work on skirmishers or command stands but they definitely don't mix.
Ugh Math makes My head hurt! 🤕😮💨@@habsburgerdonkey5342
Great video A++ Saw this pricing coming I agree it's crazy how $$$$ these new boxes are. I thought it might happen after seeing how good the price was on the starter. I'm glad I have a 3D printer and Kalistra ACW
I do sometimes wish I had a 3d printer ^^; But I'll be happy with the Kallistra additions I think. And it will make for massive battles.
I had grand plans too,then I saw the prices of wave two and three. Add postage and exchange rates and its crazy down under. Local stores list the cavalry for example at the equivalent of £50. I have moaned on the Warlord forum. Looks like Kallistra will reap the rewards of Warlords folly!
Interesting video, i like your journal. I'm not fan of ACW but the 2nd wave prices make me think I wouldn't even look at other sets.
What's so tragic is that I can see them expanding into other conflicts... but will they still do that if their stupid prices turn people off the test run immediately? Very frustrating.
Thought I saw on the Warlord site third wave would have different cast command strips. A lot of people are going 3 stands per unit and the need for Command units is rather stiff. If using the Black powder rules plan on small units being 2 stands, normal is 3, and large is 4. Extra small could be a single stand.
At 5 command stands for 15€ they're almost twice as expensive as command figures from Kallistra, sadly =/
I agree, Have packs of Kallistra officers already and could just cut out a few figs and replace with officers, may be cheaper to do that.
Your planning everything out on paper makes things very clear and I commend you on doing so. I am puzzled by the fact that everyone who has posted seems to be using 3 regiments/battalions per brigade. Is this something that the rules are suggesting? Virtually all brigades in the US Civil War were comprised of 4 and sometimes 5 regiments/battalions. Your rant and reasoning is excellent and makes 100% sense. Also using 3 stands instead of the recommended 5 is great as well.
No my decision is more one of convenience and possibility. It's an "in my head" organisation rather than an on field one. I would adjust the brigade sizes as required by OOB or mix them up in "what if" games. Chunks of 3 Regiments are also easier to paint :D
I'm glad I'm not the only one who suspected that Wargames workshop would try this. Lure them in and then bump up the prices on the rest of the range thinking that the odd scale locked them in. This kind of sneaky practice leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
Luckily Kalistra has put quite a hole in their plans. Now they have shown their colours we will be wary of any other 'epic' ranges.
Yeah... A shame though, I really thought it had a lot of potential as a range.
You are absolutely right. A further note to your comments. The new Wave 2 Bundles they offer also make little sense the way they put them together. I decided now not to buy all I planned, no Zouaves, no Iron Brigade, no unmounted Cavalry, no Wagon or Limber. I probably just get 2 Command Strips & 2 Sets of Cavalry (found them at about 30% preorder discount at a FLGS...) and done. Skirmishers I might use Kalistra, for unmounted Cavalry I ll use markers for the time being ...
It's a shame. It really is. I think they had a winning formula on their hands here. I hope they don't just abandon it and come to their senses because this could have seen similar success to Flames of War... Could've opened historical up for a whole new market. And they bungled it before the first people even received their starters -.-
@@habsburgerdonkey5342 I will wait
Until I see the final prices my FLGS is going to make for unmounted Cavalry and the Skirmishers. If they are allowed to sell them too and if he can make 30% discount, I might reconsider
Another well thought out video, that seems to echo the feeling of many people - at least on YT. Your planning seems a very close match to mine, going with kallistra models to fill in the gaps.
Consider transferring the Confederate command strips over to the union, to give an extra 12 double flag commands, exchanging for infantry strips. This gives you more bang for your buck with the kallistra commands as you really only need one flag
One thing i am doing to save a bit of cash is combining my cavalry bases as mounted and dismounted and use a marker or token to show their status. I do more "western theatre" games so this is a sort of nod towards bedford forrest.
You might want to look at pendraken miniatures 10mm range for some variety in your zouaves - fez, turbans, straw hats and kepi all feature. The figures are smaller but slimmer than kallistra but is they are based together and if you use an additional shim/base under them on a wargames table they do not really stand out (Have a look at kallistra's antietam blog, which has them used with their minis. Cost wise much as kallistra, but might take a little longer to arrive.
Look forward to watching your progess
I know they dropped that through the war but I really love the look of the confederate units with battle flag and state flag.... so even if it's not totally historical I think I'll add them in at least some units.
I'll probably hand convert some of the extra strips I'll end up with to command strips. I'll see how that goes and post a video when I do.
I have some pendraken and I find the difference a bit too jarring. I might use some of the figures as skirmishers if I'm short after my Kallistra order.
I would be more sold on the Epic battles if I could have easily have spit the infantry strips into five figures so as to give 30mm bases instead of the fiXed 60mm base
a lot of great info. You are a very educated to speak English so well
Great analysis, nothing beats actually doing the math to compare costs. Warlord definitely seems to be trying to position themselves as the GW of historical wargaming. Their bolt-action plastic infantry seem overpriced to me also. Love your notebook and army planing sketches!
I think their Bolt Action stuff is still fine. 25 figures for 30ish $? That's ok considering how wide the range is. But this... it's really hard to argue this doesn't smell like early 2000s GW. I've seen very very little defense of it, even from the stoutest fans.
@@habsburgerdonkey5342 US prices you got 30 dudes for $48 with plastics, which is pretty high IMHO. You can find the sets for way cheaper on eBay and amazon, which is what I did for the armies I just started.
What's really weird is that the supplemental command strips are listed as being in metal, as are the limbers and wagons.
I just don't understand how Warlord thinks their new resin is a better value for the customer than metal. All of the SPQR stuff that was recast in resin sells for more than the metal models they replaced, or in some cases still sell. The prices for the resin Dredd stuff are crazy, even with a license being involved. It's like they forgot to pass the savings from cheaper moulds and materials on to the customer.
Warlord really should have done a single extra plastic sprue with one regiment of cav and one regiment of dismounted right off the bat. They would sell loads of them and all the extra little bits like Zouaves, Iron, etc would not be that big of a deal pay a little extra for.
Exactly! Or even have a few Warmaster style short strips of skirmishers hidden away on a cavalry and infantry sprue. By the time you have enough of those you'd have enough skirmishers too. They could have sold the starter for a higher price, still would have been a hugely competitive bargain and it would have sold so much better. Maybe even bring in Kallistra on a licensing deal, pack their figures into epic ACW boxes for extras... but no. Whatever this is. -.-
Have they got themselves stuck with the 3rd party pricing? I got the starter set for £65 posted from Zatu games. Are Warlord priced on the basis that you'd actually be buying them for 20-30% less from a 3rd party? Kallistra only selling direct so you just get their actual price straight away.
I'm new to ACW and this scale so wanted full units rather than chopping things around. I got a code for 10% off and pre-ordered this weekend for double points, so it does come out a bit cheaper, but it still feels bad for some of the stuff.
However, I've gone Kallistra for my limbers which don't need to be mixed with other bases, and will be checking every new release against Kallistra alternatives.
Totally agree with your comments and I am disappointed with Warlords pricing strategy with this. So for that reason 'I am out'...and shall continue to play ACW with Richard Borgs Battle Cry ha ha!
Fair.
Sadly I think a lot of potential customers will be turned away by this decision. It's a shame really... I wish they had realised the potential of this type of product and started it off with an incredible value, then expand into other conflicts and grow it immensely from there. This way I feel we might get robbed of some of that...
Buy your army in small packs make each purchase just the 6 packs. I have found so far that smaller parcels do not attract duties.
Great video. I have made the same conclusion. And all the Warlord waves 2 and 3 are just resin and the cast I have seen are not as good as metal castings.
Thanks I'll give that a shot! Although the question is how much I'd save due to repeated shipping costs.
I’ve really stopped shopping directly from warlord as their conversion rates and their pricing on their sets don’t make sense. I remember when spqr came out and I saw , for example , 20 Gauls for a similar price as 40 from the hail caesar boxing. Couple that and with the higher prices after converting to Canadian or American dollars (which are jacked up from the gbp） nothing on the site is worth it. I end up buying from eBay sellers who properly convert the GBP. Perhaps the weird prices this way make more sense with the acw stuff if it’s in gbp? Probably not!
No it's a mess I agree... It's also been a very long time since I looked at one of their sales and thought "ooooh yes! That's a good deal!" :D It's usually now "eeeeeh... I don't need half this trash I need to put in my basket to get the bonus"
I go through Amazon Being in the US, eBay causes me concerns with fake postings of crap for sale... I too play SPQR, Hail Caesar and Black Powder, so have to watch what I spend money on and where... Warlord Game's pricing is frankly just stupid esp. for outside of the UK...
@@mako2350 yeah I don’t like how warlord upped prices and put some expensive shipping on things . I buy from eBay these days which still ships relatively decently to Canada if you find the right seller. Amazon’s a bit too high for me.
Nice vid, couldn't agree more. Crazy prices, weird scale, no thanks.
Warlord wouldn't be Warlord if they didn't screw up somewhere. I'm trying to place myself in their strategy meeting for this game and figure out how they could come up with such ridiculous prices.
They are probably banking on that "complete product line" market I mentioned in my first video on this subject. A lot of converts from GW these days really enjoy being able to get a complete experience from one company... I'm just not convinced that works in the historical market YET.
You really have to wonder what Warlord were thinking for the 3rd wave figs. I don't mind spending extra on unique looking troops, especially since they'll have rules that make them "better" to begin with in-game. But to price things that are TOTALLY OPTIONAL at the price point they did makes literally no sense.
I already have a substantial investment in ACW 15mm but I keep toying with the idea of moving down to 10mm. If the original boxes had been 10mm, and had been designed to work with the basing for existing rulesets then I'd have been having a big think - I suspect that if they had done groups of 5 men rather than 10 men per strip you could fit each strip on a 1" /25mm (as it looks like they are doing with the Zouaves) base which is pretty much the "standard". This would have allowed gamers to use existing rules such as Fire n Fury, Johnny Reb, Guns at Gettysburg and Pickett's Charge and would have boosted sales of the basic figures, if not their rules. I can't really see how Warlord can call the game "epic" when you're going to be severely limited in the number of regiments that you can deploy on the table with the rules as written - if you are using a six foot by four foot table you'd be lucky to fit two historical brigades per side on the board with the rules as written. So frankly, even if I was coming in to the period cold the package just doesn't appeal. As it is, the whole thing looks kind of half assed to me.
Yes this was entertaining 😀 hmm could Warlord be falling into the same trap early 2000 GW did. Guess all we can do is watch this space
Sadly I think that's exactly what they're doing and it's really annoying. Cause I don't hate their products... but I dropped GW, I'll definitely drop wargaming if they keep this crap up :D
I agree with you warlord Are doing a Games workshop sneaky move with the prices. When I finally left the GW
Obsession I went back to ww2 and the prices are great but like all companies
That get bigger they do start to think of the £ before people.
I don't even mind companies minding profits. But this, much like early 2000s GW, is not even smart business. :D
Wargaming is just not an average market. Some people are fanatical about brand loyalty but at least as many are not and will drop you like a squirming rat if you annoy them with price gouging and such.
I so agree with you warlord are going to lose out big time they might as well stand and give profit to their competitors because they will lose people who have followed warlord just because they were and I say we're good value simply because how many other ranges are they considering hiking the prices do they not understand you keep your customers sweet or you risk your business as you said games workshop lost a lot of customers their only saving grace is that they cornered the market on fantasy and have no real competition , I sorry warlord but you have a lot of competition be careful. Take care my friend Terry
I think what saved GW is that they appeared to "reform" for a while there... they're now falling back into their old shitty ways but they garnered a whole new generation of customers to dissapoint :D
Kallistra in metal and Warlord games is plastic, call me old school, I will take metal over plastic any day and at less than half the cost!!! Kallistra it is... Warlord Games is getting almost as bad as 40k and AOS pricing, I stopped buying and playing 40K etc due to their pricing. I remember when you could get 3 metal figs in AK(USA) for under $4 USD now those same 3 figs are close to or over $40 buck for plastic... Count me out. If Warlord Games isn't careful they will loose a lot of paying customers due to pricing, I don't care how good the fluff is!!!