Thanks for update, nasal breathing is the exact reason why I’m looking into mse, and I maybe have to do mma like u too, so looking forward to see what results u get. Stay well!
Thanks for the update and good to know about the turbinates… I didn’t expand a lot, have had a ton of nasal congestion however I am pregnant and that can cause nasal congestion so will have to wait and see if it continues to improve after I deliver.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 thanks! I don’t remember the total amount, we wanted to do more but had exhausted the expansion of the device and so the arms began to bend and push into the sides of my upper palate (big ouch). Just started Invisalign. Once this is all done will see how my breathing and bite is and decide if I want to do another round of expansion or sinus surgery or just be with the results. I’ll just have to wait and see how my breathing is! It’s been an interesting journey. Totally worth it so far to fix my open bite and to make room for my tongue to fit inside my upper palate.
Let's hope for the best bro. Just gotta hold out for MMA. But forced air from CPAP could and probably does causes irritation of the turbinates. Good luck with MMA man, im sure you will feel tons better!!! :)
all the best with your double jaw surgery! I visited a dentist that specializes in airway issues before MSE became available in australia and after looking in my mouth immediately said surgical expansion, but mse wasnt around and he explained whats required and i pretty much backed out. Prior to that i did have a deviated septum corrected and turbinates reduced but they simply grow back - plus u risk getting empty nose syndrome. GOt tested for allergies including foods and came back positive and have been getting treated for them ever since but only ever reached about 65% improvement. My friend went through same issues as me but recently got diagnosed with skin conditions that exacerbated his allergies (oral thrush and scabies) and once treated hes saying all allergy symptoms including nasal congestion went away. Just fucking weird how shit we dont imagine correlating to an issue can be the cause. I wanted to do MSE but after hearing this am really disappointed and apprehensive again. Might be worth looking up Patrick G McKeown, hes a pioneer in breathing issues.
Yeah that is odd. In my opinion, if you have a narrow nasal cavity, expand it. Even if it doesn't solve all your issues, it's a necessary component on your journey. Sometimes patients do need more than 1 intervention.
That's very kind ❤️ my MSE is still installed so it's blocking the tongue position. But still it's kinda better? My tongue just pushes up there as much as it can. Which is good!
Thanks so much for your videos and channel. I'm based in Buenos Aires Argentina and researching about MARPE/MSE here to improve my breathing and my teeth. In regards to your breathing, have you checked with an ENT specialist? I'd put energy into double checking you don't have any allergies that are causing your turbinates to swollen, and that you don't have a deviated septum. An allergy test and tomography can check your allergies and state of your septum and turbinates. If you don't have allergies and straight septum but swollen turbinates (which might be the case if your breathing is not well) then you can consider reducing your turbinates surgically. I think it is quite a straight forward surgery (but of course very important to do it with a great ENT). I mean, if the cause of your congestion is turbinate hypertrophy (unrelated to a deviated septum or allergies) then you could consider that route. I'm in the quest of a good breathing but it is quite difficult where I'm based as not much research is in here. all the best man, you have achieved so much yet. You'll get there!
Hello Toni, Thank you for your suggestion. I've had allergy studies and I've already had septoplasty and turbinate reduction. I've seen many ENTs. Thanks :)
Can you provide an update? It's been 2 months and no update. As far as the renewed nasal breathing difficulty, I bet it is because the invisalign is reducing your forward space. Also, where did you get your list of MSE/Marpe providers, I wonder if there is an updated list as I'm still hoping to do this. Thank you!
I hope to give an update soon. I got the list from some Discord server. No idea if the list is up to date anymore. Not sure about that Invisalign thing. Hard to imagine forward space effecting my nasal breathing especially because it's just less than half a mm.
I am in month 3 of MSE gearing up for a double jaw. This was my experience too. Its reassuring to see other people who are going through the same thing.
Evan I think I had extremely similar experience. Maybe your biretrsuion leads to high velocity air breathing which in turn stresses ur turbinates which causes them to enlarge. So maybe post mma ur turbs will shrink bc the environment will be less stressful. This is literally my situation. We are in the same boat.
haha Evan I was waiting for your update like for another episode of favourite series :D Why are you getting also surgery? I thought that you opted out of this, since MSE did huge part of it's job. I also think you should visit alergologist once again and try some general medicaments and/or nasal sprays with corticoides just to try if it helps. Where do you live? I think it would be also worth it to move to other place, where no allergens like dust etc. are, or even to other country with different climate and vegetation e.g. with a sea for a month to see some changes.
Haha I'm glad you enjoy them! :D No actually. I knew from the start that MMA surgery was the main thing I needed and MSE was a helpful side treatment that I chose to add on. I've tried all those sprays and medications. They help for only short periods of time. I don't love the idea of taking em for the rest of my life. Ive always thought about trying to move for an experiment. That's a great idea! Someday perhaps I will.
I had my MSE put in yesterday! I have UARS, sort of like sleep apnea, but with arousals instead of hypoxia's. I have a pretty narrow upper palate so I'm hoping to see a benefit. I also have a slightly recessed jaw so I'm not sure which one is contributing more to my sleep apnea. What made you decide on jaw surgery? Did you try the oral appliances that bring your jaw forward first? Thanks so much for posting about this topic. More awareness needs to be raised!
A DISE may help determine which is the bigger contributing factor. I have a narrow posterior airway so that's why I'm doing jaw surgery. Oral appliances to bring your jaw forward do not work. It's a scam. Thanks for the kind comments :)
@@zinahal-khateeb2952 MSDO is the only option to expand the lower skeletally. But there are options to expand the arch purely dentally. Usually this isn't a concern bc who need MSE have a smaller upper than lower.
I'm scheduled for MSE soon........my CT scan revealed that I have a deviated septum, and that my turbinates are enlarged. I was hoping to use MSE as an alternative to septoplasty and turbinate reduction. I have tested positive for allergens. Guess I won't rule out the fact that I may still need the procedures post MSE.
Was really excited to see your update Evan! I also started nasomaxillary expansion a few months back. At first, my sleep seemed to improve a little bit every week for about three months. At that point I was so happy, but then all of a sudden my sleep issues came back with a vengeance and have been terrible for the last week. My nasal breathing while awake is still excellent, but my sleep is back to horrendous. Really discouraging. Did you have cycles during your expansion like this?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I did EASE with Kasey Li. My expansion is complete now and braces going on soon. It felt like I was heading towards a miracle. The week before it went downhill was my best sleep in a decade. I'm baffled as to what has happened. Sorry to hear yours hasn't gone well from the jump. Did you have to raise your CPAP pressures?
@@tomrogers8071 so sorry to hear that. I wonder what happened there. Sounds similar to what happened to me. My Ortho warned me this happens. It's not uncommon. Have you had a DISE?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Thanks Evan. It really takes someone else struggling with this to understand. I gave up trying to explain this to other people years ago. Yes I've actually had two DISE's in the past and had two soft tissue surgeries following them. The first one improved me about 50%, the second one didn't help at all. I've been reading a lot about LPR and think this may have something to do with my constant arousals. Seems like there is a circular connection between OSA/UARS and GERD/LPR. I'm going to work on this for a few weeks and if it doesn't work I'll probably have to try PAP again. Do you do anything for reflux?
Watching this video, exact same symptoms with enlarged left turbinate, except inferior turbinate is missing on right so slightly diff circumstance. I think removing the device will definitely help along with tongue position after that. Few more months, I count the days everyday myself, but it will happen. One piece of the puzzle at a time.
Had my MSE removed few days ago, makes a world of difference. The turbinates will still swell and shrink at times, but its easier to breathe because you dont have four 2mm tads in your face
Have you tried Nasalcromm? It’s a mast cell stabilizer that you have to use a few times a day. Between that and generic xyzal, it’s decreased my allergy and asthma. I went from being realllly ill to feeling pretty good.
I also have enlarged turbinates, dr is having me treat it with a budesonide rinse. I think it helps but we still have no idea what the root cause is. He suspects it could be simply from breathing in irritants or could be from clenching my jaw while sleeping (no idea how that's related), but not likely from allergies as all allergy tests I've taken have been negative. Some of us just aren't meant to breathe well it seems.
@@jbf537 it’s extremely possible that I misunderstood him 😂 apparently bruxism can be caused by the some of the same things that causes enlarged turbinates.
Hey Evan. I just had a quick question I was hoping you could answer. My upper and lower teeth align but I'd still like to expand my upper jaw as my intermolar width is quite narrow, and I can't properly fit my tongue on the roof of my mouth. If I solely expand the upper jaw with MSE, will that leave my lower jaw much narrower than the upper and if so what can I do to fix this? Cheers
Hi Fasir. I am in the same case. The two avenues are to fix it skeletally or orthodontically. Skeletal fix would be MSDO (Mandibular Symphyseal Distraction Osteogenesis). It's an MSE but for the lower. It has a higher rate of complications than MSE. To fix it orthodontically, you could just expand the lower arch with braces/invisalign and tip the upper teeth inward. That is what I am doing. If you are limited on bone support for the lower arch, some patients get SFOT to allow them to expand the lower arch orthodontically even more.
Hey! Glad I found your channel. I'm curious about what you mentioned about expanding while you have invisalign. I'm surprised this is possible. If you can do this, could you wear invisalign from the start to prevent a diastema?
Good question and yes! It's not usually done this way but sometimes it is. Some providers are more okay with it than others. I think it reduces your chance of successful expansion but I have heard of patients who did it no prob. As for face pull mask, no. Definitely doesn't work on adults. Not sure if it really works on kids either.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Yes, I have a hunch that may be the case, too. But I often wonder if a cortical puncture on the zygomatic arch would help move the mid face forward (cortical puncture on the suture between the zygomatic process and the temporal process).
Have you tried sleeping without the cpap machine now that you're pallat is expanded? ANy updated sleep studies now that you're expanded? I'm considering getting MSE :-( but I fear I may end up like you where you consider Jaw surgery
I've never heard of this. Swollen Terbinites... i would imagine they are being inflammes by some sort of aggravating factor like you said. Would MMA irritate them too? Wait for all these procedures to finish, let your skull "calm down", then perhaps have them surgically removed or reduced? Ik that sounds dumb but may be a last resort if necessary
MMA might initially irritate them. Maybe, maybe not. But im sure when everything heals, it should be fine. I agree with you. That's a good thing to consider.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 ok so i looked into it, and there are a ton of both non-invasive and invasive methods of dealing with the inflammation. You should be good
I am planning to have MARPE done to increase my tongue space as a treatment for sleep apnea, I don't have much problem in nasal breathing, other than slight nasal congestion overnight, since I already have turbinate reduction surgery done about 10 years ago. Do you have any sugggestions ?
Hello Buddy, big Tx for the feed back. I have a question: after all the efforts, once the whole devices is taken out are there any danger to get the issue back again, I mean is there a risk to have the upper jaw taking back it's original state overtime ? Take care.
Yes there is a risk. The longer you keep the device in after expansion during the bone remodeling stage, the lower the chance of relapse. My ortho recommends at least 6 months. Many providers do less than that, so beware.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 thanks bro...22 years ago I declined the proposed surgery...now it’s back on the table in form of SARPE treatment and I am about to sign...God bless
If you did turbinate reduction before MSE your nasal breathing may have been improved drastically, but still there would be a bottleneck in the posterior area. MSE will help with this (as well as MMA), so in my opinion it is still a good thing you had it done. You can always come back to the turbinates later. Also you may be underestimating the effectiveness of MMA for improving nasal breathing.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Sounds like you really need to find out why your turbinates are still swelling up! That will contribute to poor breathing in the day time, which translates to poor breathing in the night time as well. For some reason that's my hunch is that your turbinates are irritated and you need to get to the root cause of that from watching your videos.
@@publicname515 I totally agree. I've had the same hunch for a long time now. I am gonna start an elimination diet and get a mold poisoning test. Because they're clearly irritated and they're growing too.
@@publicname515 i have tried some breathing exercises I read in that James Nestor book which were nice but didn't really improve my situation. I haven't heard of that score though
I would say positive I enjoy my wider smile I had before pics I took but I accidentally deleted them. I will bring some before after pics from my orthodontist after treatment.
Hey man just curious did you ever turn the device after you had the arms cut off and finished expanding? Did you ever worry you’d accidentally reverse turn it while chewing or mewing?
Hey Evan. I’m supposed to get the MSE in July. I’m feeling like I want to get a DISE with dr zaghi before hand - but damn is it ever expensive. Did you feel the DISE was worth it?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 shoot. I had a tonsillectomy that did nothing and I’m just terrified to do the MSE and not see any results either. You didn’t get much info from your DISE?
@@coyotestarastrology it's possible. Have you watched my video on how to tell if you need MSE? How many of those criteria do you fit? As for dise, it told me what I already knew. Wasn't worth the money.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 thanks so much for the info on your experience. I’ve been fully evaluated by many ents, orthos, and a full CT done at the breath institute - all report narrow palate / scalloped tongue etc. and think this is one of my only remaining options. I had a UPP so I don’t qualify for MAS, which is kind of terrifying considering that leaves on MSE for the most part. I’m so desperate for sleep I’d do anything at this point, I’m barely clinging to my sanity
Hey, Ive been wanting to get an opinion on what my needs are exactly for my mouth and jaw. How do find a professional with expertise in this? What are they called?
Have you ever considered acid reflux as a cause of the inflammation? It is the reason I get inflammation, so could it be an underlying problem for you as well?
I used to have really bad acid reflux but I changed my diet dramatically and I no longer have it. That was life changing though, it cured my depression.
You were trying to figure out why you still have some nasal congestion…do you think it may just be restricted airway due to “external” reasons? The skin/cartilage of your nose collapsing?? It’s the reason your Breathe-right strips work. As our face grows down and back (in cases of vertical growth), it drags the tip of the nose and skin downward, following the chin. The bony top part of the nose remains anchored to the skull, thus causing the characteristic bony “bump” in the middle of the nose. The nose is thinner in most vertical skeletal growers. Maybe it’s the nose itself that can use enlargement..?? Opening the actual entrance/start of the nasal airway. I think they do this by adding cartilage rings to support the nostril openings. I mean, if our facial growth is narrow, the entire airway/tube needs to be addressed/enlarged. From beginning to end.
For my case, my opinion is it's about 20% due to nasal valve collapse, 30% due to narrow nasal cavity (even after expansion), and 50% turbinate hypertrophy. These things also effect eachother so these percentages don't really make sense but it's just what I believe is most important to tackle.
Turbinate swelling is either allergy to airborne irritant OR a hidden food intolerance causing digestive tract inflammation. Both the digestive tract, the sinuses and the lungs are all made from the same mesenchymal tissue as an embryo. The best way to determine if it’s diet is to fast water only. If the swelling goes away then you can bet you are eating foods unfit for humans. An elimination diet needs to be commenced. The only true elimination diet is carnivore diet as animal protein and fat is all that’s biologically needed to sustain human life. Carnivore followed by introduction of one food at a time for 1 week at a time listening and recording your body reaction. Hope this helps it’s hard to digest for many because changing diet is the hardest thing to change in an individual.
It's funny you say that bc I'm slowly transitioning to a carnivore diet to try exactly that. But I tried keto once before and it was hard and it sucked... But eh I'll try carnivore, fine
@@evanlavizadeh4032 excellent move. Red meat and salt and water only for the elimination style approach wins. Dairy and eggs can be problematic for many and are hard to remove for many. They can be added later if tolerated but the second you have two or three other food groups it’s impossible to tell what is doing what.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 most people of normal body weight without known or hidden chronic digestive tract disease (like IBD) who are not overweight or obese will notice changes in nasal airway breathing within the first two months. But if falling back into old habit often the nasal inflammation will return. It’s about finding out what works for the individual with a well planed elimination diet. Then once you know what you can and can’t eat your more likely not to touch the things that don’t serve you.
Hi im new to your channel and i was wondering if at the end you could rest the tongue in the roof with no problem and when ur sleeping if theres no obstruction also thanks for telling this
I have to wait until I get MSE removed to tell. I am sure i will be able to rest my tongue on the roof (because I was able to before with training) but I dont think it will be enough to cure OSA.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I forgot to tell you that i can sleep with no problem but before i had a severe sleep apnea but now i have slight problems but i cant rest the tongue on the roof so basically kind of the opposite of your case D:
I have kind of but I would like to explore those more. I met a dietition who didn't have much to say. I wanna consult with more. Would hate to commit to a diet without knowing more.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Nutrition is a very complex world and can be highly individual. But there are some red lines I would suggest that could bring big improvements. No seed oils, grains or highly processed foods. Agree somewhat that you should know your stuff before committing fully but you could always try something for a week and it might work. If you haven't already I recommend looking into the top tier health experts like Brian Sanders. Paul Saladino, Mark Sisson and Rob Wolfe. Hope it goes well for you!
If the issues started wen u put invisalign in id say they are retracting your maxilla and hence changing the angle of of entry for air. But then again u have so many things going not 100% what would cause the issue. Be great to see the outcome soon evan. Goodluck
Deviated septum itself is a symptom of compromised palate/maxila development. With underdeveloped maxilla, you have much smaller volume to fit all the nasal organs and structure. Septum itself needs adequate room to stand straight, and if the maxilla is pushed back, then septum will have to buckle to one side to adapt. Also, high arched palate can push up the septum from its base, making it buckle.
Hi evan I've been watching your videos for a while now and it seems we have very similar symptoms, I'm suffering very badly and I would really appreciate contacting you to discuss what I should do, please reply to this comment with a way I can contact you
email me at elavizadeh@gmail.com and we can have a conversation over email or over the phone after that :) If you haven't already, get a sleep study (that scores RERA's and uses the 3% desat index). That's the first step.
How is your overall ortho experience? Do you stop Invisalign and do your surgery and then start Invisalign over again? Do you do Ipr with your Invisalign? So because your doing surgery and have done mse does that mean that your ortho journey will longer than around 2 years which I know is a general estimate of what others usually get told?
My ortho experience is good. All I've done so far is: MSE (twice) and now invisalign. I will be going into MMA surgery in Dec and I will keep my invisalign (or possibly switch to traditional braces) and continue treatment throughout the surgery process. Whats LPR? Idk what my total ortho treatment is actually.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 why switch to traditional braces? I mean is the decisions up to your is one or the other recommended.. IPR is where they sand down space in between your teeth. with a snapper disc or something to create space. It seems they do it a lot with Invisalign.
@@maddylam9455 oh I've seen that. No I didn't do lpr. Some surgeons just find braces easier to work with. I think your jaws will be too sensitive to take out and clean the Invisalign and then put them back in for a while. Some patients do Invisalign with MMA but not all. There's a trade-off.
I had turbinate reduction surgery and was told it was normal to need surgery again in ten years. It gave me improvement, but swelling really didn't disappear until removing gluten from my diet after we ditched it from our kitchen for our son. If you haven't tried this, you should for a month. Results were apparent in two weeks for me. I had been tested for allergies and wheat wasn't on the list. Intolerance in the gut is not measured with allergy tests. You have an immune response on fire. Figure out what the underlying irritant is. Just try gluten free and dairy free. If you don't want to experiment, fork out the money for food intolerance testing; it is different than allergy testing and it does work.
Could this negation be due to the fact that you were still on PAP at this point in time? In my case it might be different since Im no longer on PAP, but rather inspire.
@@jawley Yes after 6 months off of PAP I can tell you my nasal breathing improved. I'm happy I'm on inspire, I'm getting the relief I could never get from PAP.
I've been expanding for about a month now I believe, my expansion is going well, but now I'm having nasal valve collapse, so my nasal breathing hasn't really improved.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 honestly I think I was having it before, but my nasal passages were constricted enough I didn’t notice. My deviated septum seems to have sorted itself out though!
@@bigdino475 your nose sucks shut on one or both sides when you inhale through it. There is a maneuver doctors have you do, where you put your finger next to your nostril, and pull it away from the midpoint of your face. If your breathing improves you may have nasal valve collapse.
In general, yes. But sometimes people's two front teeth start moving or angling in weird ways immediately and gaps appear in other places. But you've got the right idea. Any gap between the two front teeth immediately is connected to a wider nasal cavity and thus better nasal breathing.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Thank you for the reply. I had a SARPE 2 months ago with a 0.6cm gap between my front teeth, I have a noticable positive change in my nasal breathing, however I cant stop wondering about the idea that it could be even greater, am I right? I'll be starting an Invisalign treatment in the next few months. Hope it wont relapse.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Yes, Angular SARPE with a butterfly expander. I got out of turns so quickly. The surgeon did a tradition SARPE except one bone that he didnt cut intentionally, so it wont ruin my molar's bite that badly. (my lower jaw is quite narrow sadly) What're your thoughts of it?
This might sound crazy, but cutting out fruits, vegetables and grains will greatly reduce your inflammation. It's called the carnivore diet. There's so many videos on TH-cam of people who have gone on this diet and cured their chronic illnesses. The reason being that most of the foods we eat cause inflammation. Best of luck!!!
I've thought about giving that a try and seeing how I feel and what I can introduce but my god that is so hard I don't know if I can honestly. I tried keto for a week and that was brutal. I felt awful. Have you tried it?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I have tried carnivore, but not keto. Been on again off again since October, but still mostly animal based. The longest I've gone eating strictly animal based is a month, and even though I'm not 100%, I've seen major improvements in my health (scalp itchiness, acne, tonsil stones). I'm a 17 years old and haven't undergone any treatment yet, but I'm banking on carnivore to help keep inflammation down for whenever I do get treatment, whatever that will look like. I'm glad to hear that you've at least heard of it before! I hope you give it another go.
I don't know if this is really "the truth about MSE".....it's more about other factors that lead to you seeing less than ideal improvements to your symptoms after doing MSE expansion (which seems like it was somewhat successful).
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Hi, maybe if you are still experiencing some nasal congestion, you should have a look into Alaxo Lito Plus or Alax Lito Extreme Nasal stents. There nitonol stents which prevent the inflammation of the nasal passage of actually causing obstruction?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 That's still better than nothing... speaking for myself at least, that sounds like progress. I see from your post-op MMA video that the surgery helped somewhat too. Thank you for this information, it's very helpful.
@@grzegorz16100 the success rate is much higher in adult women. He's probably talking about that. Technically, it can work. But be aware that it is likely to fail and you'd have to move to SARPE
Thanks for update, nasal breathing is the exact reason why I’m looking into mse, and I maybe have to do mma like u too, so looking forward to see what results u get. Stay well!
Good luck James!
Thanks for the update and good to know about the turbinates… I didn’t expand a lot, have had a ton of nasal congestion however I am pregnant and that can cause nasal congestion so will have to wait and see if it continues to improve after I deliver.
Well congrats on your pregnancy! How exciting. How much did you expand, do you remember? I hope your congestion improves.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 thanks! I don’t remember the total amount, we wanted to do more but had exhausted the expansion of the device and so the arms began to bend and push into the sides of my upper palate (big ouch). Just started Invisalign. Once this is all done will see how my breathing and bite is and decide if I want to do another round of expansion or sinus surgery or just be with the results. I’ll just have to wait and see how my breathing is! It’s been an interesting journey. Totally worth it so far to fix my open bite and to make room for my tongue to fit inside my upper palate.
Let's hope for the best bro. Just gotta hold out for MMA. But forced air from CPAP could and probably does causes irritation of the turbinates. Good luck with MMA man, im sure you will feel tons better!!! :)
Thanks Mike :)
Thanks for the update. MARPE failed two times on me so I pulled the trigger on SARPE last week. Hoping it cures my TMJ, Sinusitis and Apnea.
I was almost in the same boat. Good luck!!
How’s the expansion going so far? Are you able to breathe better
Hey, did you get the sarpe? How is your nasal breathing now?
all the best with your double jaw surgery! I visited a dentist that specializes in airway issues before MSE became available in australia and after looking in my mouth immediately said surgical expansion, but mse wasnt around and he explained whats required and i pretty much backed out. Prior to that i did have a deviated septum corrected and turbinates reduced but they simply grow back - plus u risk getting empty nose syndrome. GOt tested for allergies including foods and came back positive and have been getting treated for them ever since but only ever reached about 65% improvement. My friend went through same issues as me but recently got diagnosed with skin conditions that exacerbated his allergies (oral thrush and scabies) and once treated hes saying all allergy symptoms including nasal congestion went away. Just fucking weird how shit we dont imagine correlating to an issue can be the cause. I wanted to do MSE but after hearing this am really disappointed and apprehensive again. Might be worth looking up Patrick G McKeown, hes a pioneer in breathing issues.
Yeah that is odd. In my opinion, if you have a narrow nasal cavity, expand it. Even if it doesn't solve all your issues, it's a necessary component on your journey. Sometimes patients do need more than 1 intervention.
Thanks for the update! Good to know. Best wishes going forward! Also i think your cheekbones seem more pronounced.
Thank you Roshan :)
You're a warrior and an inspiration my man. How's the resting tongue position these days?
That's very kind ❤️ my MSE is still installed so it's blocking the tongue position. But still it's kinda better? My tongue just pushes up there as much as it can. Which is good!
@@evanlavizadeh4032 please do a follow up video to update us. I’m considering en expander. Not sure which one just yet
Thanks so much for your videos and channel. I'm based in Buenos Aires Argentina and researching about MARPE/MSE here to improve my breathing and my teeth.
In regards to your breathing, have you checked with an ENT specialist?
I'd put energy into double checking you don't have any allergies that are causing your turbinates to swollen, and that you don't have a deviated septum. An allergy test and tomography can check your allergies and state of your septum and turbinates. If you don't have allergies and straight septum but swollen turbinates (which might be the case if your breathing is not well) then you can consider reducing your turbinates surgically. I think it is quite a straight forward surgery (but of course very important to do it with a great ENT). I mean, if the cause of your congestion is turbinate hypertrophy (unrelated to a deviated septum or allergies) then you could consider that route.
I'm in the quest of a good breathing but it is quite difficult where I'm based as not much research is in here.
all the best man, you have achieved so much yet. You'll get there!
Hello Toni,
Thank you for your suggestion. I've had allergy studies and I've already had septoplasty and turbinate reduction. I've seen many ENTs. Thanks :)
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Thank you Evan. Sorry I missed that info, still catching up with your videos. Thanks again
@@tonato17 no prob, good luck :)
You should look into dry fasting to address the inflammation and turbinate problem.
Can you provide an update? It's been 2 months and no update. As far as the renewed nasal breathing difficulty, I bet it is because the invisalign is reducing your forward space. Also, where did you get your list of MSE/Marpe providers, I wonder if there is an updated list as I'm still hoping to do this. Thank you!
I hope to give an update soon. I got the list from some Discord server. No idea if the list is up to date anymore. Not sure about that Invisalign thing. Hard to imagine forward space effecting my nasal breathing especially because it's just less than half a mm.
I am in month 3 of MSE gearing up for a double jaw. This was my experience too. Its reassuring to see other people who are going through the same thing.
How old are you ? How did it go ?
update us please
Hey y’all ! 👋🏻 Has anyone been treated with biobloc orthotropics ?? Did it work for you? 😞
Hi , u mentioned maxillary expansion, can you explain about its cost and is it affordable
As part of my MARPE, I’m also seeing an ENT for a turbinate reduction. Might be something worth looking into.
I've already had turbinate reduction. Didn't do anything for me.
I’m probably too late, but DO NOT get turbinate reduction!! It can lead to empty nose syndrome (ENS)!
@@henrykwieniawski7233 It's honestly been a godsend. I can breath at night and sleep much better since having it done. Didn't get MARPE though.
Hi!
Love 💕 your content! So chilling!
Would love to know the full meaning of MMA you mentioned...
Thanks for the kind words 🥰. MMA means Maxillomandibular Advancement. It's double jaw surgery but specifically advancement (bring the jaws forward).
Evan I think I had extremely similar experience. Maybe your biretrsuion leads to high velocity air breathing which in turn stresses ur turbinates which causes them to enlarge. So maybe post mma ur turbs will shrink bc the environment will be less stressful. This is literally my situation. We are in the same boat.
Wow that would make sense. I believe that. PAP would also increase the velocity no?
haha Evan I was waiting for your update like for another episode of favourite series :D Why are you getting also surgery? I thought that you opted out of this, since MSE did huge part of it's job. I also think you should visit alergologist once again and try some general medicaments and/or nasal sprays with corticoides just to try if it helps. Where do you live? I think it would be also worth it to move to other place, where no allergens like dust etc. are, or even to other country with different climate and vegetation e.g. with a sea for a month to see some changes.
Haha I'm glad you enjoy them! :D No actually. I knew from the start that MMA surgery was the main thing I needed and MSE was a helpful side treatment that I chose to add on. I've tried all those sprays and medications. They help for only short periods of time. I don't love the idea of taking em for the rest of my life. Ive always thought about trying to move for an experiment. That's a great idea! Someday perhaps I will.
I had my MSE put in yesterday! I have UARS, sort of like sleep apnea, but with arousals instead of hypoxia's. I have a pretty narrow upper palate so I'm hoping to see a benefit. I also have a slightly recessed jaw so I'm not sure which one is contributing more to my sleep apnea. What made you decide on jaw surgery? Did you try the oral appliances that bring your jaw forward first? Thanks so much for posting about this topic. More awareness needs to be raised!
A DISE may help determine which is the bigger contributing factor. I have a narrow posterior airway so that's why I'm doing jaw surgery. Oral appliances to bring your jaw forward do not work. It's a scam. Thanks for the kind comments :)
Thanks for all the updates! Also does MSE or SARPE only expand your upper jaw or can you expand your lower jaw as well to create a more cohesive look?
Only upper.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Do you know of any methods that can expand your lower jaw or is that not possible with these types of expanders
@@zinahal-khateeb2952 MSDO is the only option to expand the lower skeletally. But there are options to expand the arch purely dentally. Usually this isn't a concern bc who need MSE have a smaller upper than lower.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Thank you!
I'm scheduled for MSE soon........my CT scan revealed that I have a deviated septum, and that my turbinates are enlarged. I was hoping to use MSE as an alternative to septoplasty and turbinate reduction. I have tested positive for allergens. Guess I won't rule out the fact that I may still need the procedures post MSE.
Yep its entirely possible. But hey, now you have some great avenues to explore.
How’s it going?..
Was really excited to see your update Evan! I also started nasomaxillary expansion a few months back. At first, my sleep seemed to improve a little bit every week for about three months. At that point I was so happy, but then all of a sudden my sleep issues came back with a vengeance and have been terrible for the last week. My nasal breathing while awake is still excellent, but my sleep is back to horrendous. Really discouraging. Did you have cycles during your expansion like this?
Actually no this wasn't my experience. My sleep only got worse. But wow that's interesting. What form of expansion did you get?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I did EASE with Kasey Li. My expansion is complete now and braces going on soon. It felt like I was heading towards a miracle. The week before it went downhill was my best sleep in a decade. I'm baffled as to what has happened. Sorry to hear yours hasn't gone well from the jump. Did you have to raise your CPAP pressures?
@@tomrogers8071 so sorry to hear that. I wonder what happened there. Sounds similar to what happened to me. My Ortho warned me this happens. It's not uncommon. Have you had a DISE?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Thanks Evan. It really takes someone else struggling with this to understand. I gave up trying to explain this to other people years ago. Yes I've actually had two DISE's in the past and had two soft tissue surgeries following them. The first one improved me about 50%, the second one didn't help at all. I've been reading a lot about LPR and think this may have something to do with my constant arousals. Seems like there is a circular connection between OSA/UARS and GERD/LPR. I'm going to work on this for a few weeks and if it doesn't work I'll probably have to try PAP again. Do you do anything for reflux?
@@tomrogers8071 what’s the cost of EASE?
Watching this video, exact same symptoms with enlarged left turbinate, except inferior turbinate is missing on right so slightly diff circumstance.
I think removing the device will definitely help along with tongue position after that. Few more months, I count the days everyday myself, but it will happen. One piece of the puzzle at a time.
I'm hoping!
Had my MSE removed few days ago, makes a world of difference. The turbinates will still swell and shrink at times, but its easier to breathe because you dont have four 2mm tads in your face
@@Kbgoda1 wow no way?? I'm looking forward to it!! I get mine off at the end of the month. So excited!
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I actually booked to get mine off sooner (4 months total), since the healing felt done. No relapse for now.
@@Kbgoda1 wow glad to hear that. Hear so many different opinions on how long to let it heal
Have you tried Nasalcromm? It’s a mast cell stabilizer that you have to use a few times a day. Between that and generic xyzal, it’s decreased my allergy and asthma.
I went from being realllly ill to feeling pretty good.
Hmm interesting. I should give that a shot. Did you test positive for allergies?
I also have enlarged turbinates, dr is having me treat it with a budesonide rinse. I think it helps but we still have no idea what the root cause is. He suspects it could be simply from breathing in irritants or could be from clenching my jaw while sleeping (no idea how that's related), but not likely from allergies as all allergy tests I've taken have been negative. Some of us just aren't meant to breathe well it seems.
yep :/ same boat. But it could be narrow nasal cavity. it could be OSA? idk
clenching can enlarge the turbinates!?
@@jbf537 it’s extremely possible that I misunderstood him 😂 apparently bruxism can be caused by the some of the same things that causes enlarged turbinates.
Hey Evan. I just had a quick question I was hoping you could answer. My upper and lower teeth align but I'd still like to expand my upper jaw as my intermolar width is quite narrow, and I can't properly fit my tongue on the roof of my mouth. If I solely expand the upper jaw with MSE, will that leave my lower jaw much narrower than the upper and if so what can I do to fix this? Cheers
Hi Fasir. I am in the same case. The two avenues are to fix it skeletally or orthodontically. Skeletal fix would be MSDO (Mandibular Symphyseal Distraction Osteogenesis). It's an MSE but for the lower. It has a higher rate of complications than MSE. To fix it orthodontically, you could just expand the lower arch with braces/invisalign and tip the upper teeth inward. That is what I am doing. If you are limited on bone support for the lower arch, some patients get SFOT to allow them to expand the lower arch orthodontically even more.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Thank you
Hey! Glad I found your channel. I'm curious about what you mentioned about expanding while you have invisalign. I'm surprised this is possible. If you can do this, could you wear invisalign from the start to prevent a diastema?
Also, would you consider a face pulling mask instead of MMA?
Good question and yes! It's not usually done this way but sometimes it is. Some providers are more okay with it than others. I think it reduces your chance of successful expansion but I have heard of patients who did it no prob.
As for face pull mask, no. Definitely doesn't work on adults. Not sure if it really works on kids either.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Yes, I have a hunch that may be the case, too. But I often wonder if a cortical puncture on the zygomatic arch would help move the mid face forward (cortical puncture on the suture between the zygomatic process and the temporal process).
My nasal breathing benefits haven’t relapsed a few months after completing the turns, but I wonder if they could after my MSE is removed.
If I had to guess, you're in the clear 👍
How much have you expanded?
@@bigdino475 8mm or so
@@bigdino475 10mm
You could do an experiment and take over the counter allergy medication for a few weeks to see if it is allergies.
tried it :/ so I'm guessing its not? maybe its dietary allergies tho?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Have you tried eliminating dairy?
Have you tried sleeping without the cpap machine now that you're pallat is expanded? ANy updated sleep studies now that you're expanded? I'm considering getting MSE :-( but I fear I may end up like you where you consider Jaw surgery
I've never heard of this. Swollen Terbinites... i would imagine they are being inflammes by some sort of aggravating factor like you said.
Would MMA irritate them too?
Wait for all these procedures to finish, let your skull "calm down", then perhaps have them surgically removed or reduced? Ik that sounds dumb but may be a last resort if necessary
MMA might initially irritate them. Maybe, maybe not. But im sure when everything heals, it should be fine. I agree with you. That's a good thing to consider.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 ok so i looked into it, and there are a ton of both non-invasive and invasive methods of dealing with the inflammation. You should be good
I am planning to have MARPE done to increase my tongue space as a treatment for sleep apnea, I don't have much problem in nasal breathing, other than slight nasal congestion overnight, since I already have turbinate reduction surgery done about 10 years ago. Do you have any sugggestions ?
Hello Buddy, big Tx for the feed back. I have a question: after all the efforts, once the whole devices is taken out are there any danger to get the issue back again, I mean is there a risk to have the upper jaw taking back it's original state overtime ? Take care.
wear a retainer and do the correct position of the tongue
Yes there is a risk. The longer you keep the device in after expansion during the bone remodeling stage, the lower the chance of relapse. My ortho recommends at least 6 months. Many providers do less than that, so beware.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 thanks bro...22 years ago I declined the proposed surgery...now it’s back on the table in form of SARPE treatment and I am about to sign...God bless
If you did turbinate reduction before MSE your nasal breathing may have been improved drastically, but still there would be a bottleneck in the posterior area. MSE will help with this (as well as MMA), so in my opinion it is still a good thing you had it done. You can always come back to the turbinates later. Also you may be underestimating the effectiveness of MMA for improving nasal breathing.
I agree with all of that. Very good point. By the way, I actually did turbinate reduction + septoplasty 2 years ago. It did nothing for me.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Sounds like you really need to find out why your turbinates are still swelling up! That will contribute to poor breathing in the day time, which translates to poor breathing in the night time as well. For some reason that's my hunch is that your turbinates are irritated and you need to get to the root cause of that from watching your videos.
@@publicname515 I totally agree. I've had the same hunch for a long time now. I am gonna start an elimination diet and get a mold poisoning test. Because they're clearly irritated and they're growing too.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 are you doing breathing exercises? Have you checked out Buteyko? What is your BOLT score?
@@publicname515 i have tried some breathing exercises I read in that James Nestor book which were nice but didn't really improve my situation. I haven't heard of that score though
Did MSE have a negative effect on your looks? Or positive effect or neutral? Was there noticeable asymmetrical expansion?
I would love to see before after pics from the very same angle distance lighting lens.
I would say positive I enjoy my wider smile I had before pics I took but I accidentally deleted them. I will bring some before after pics from my orthodontist after treatment.
Great vids 😍♥️♥️♥️
Hey man just curious did you ever turn the device after you had the arms cut off and finished expanding? Did you ever worry you’d accidentally reverse turn it while chewing or mewing?
Yes to the first question and no to the second
Congratulations on your MSE. May I ask how old you are?.. I heard for men over 30 it’s not recommended.. where did you get it done?..
I'm 26. Yeah the success rate of MSE starts really dropping off for men over 25. I got it done with Dr.Audrey Yoon.
Hey Evan. I’m supposed to get the MSE in July. I’m feeling like I want to get a DISE with dr zaghi before hand - but damn is it ever expensive. Did you feel the DISE was worth it?
Different docs have different opinions on how useful DISE is. I think it's probably not necessary in most cases
@@evanlavizadeh4032 shoot. I had a tonsillectomy that did nothing and I’m just terrified to do the MSE and not see any results either. You didn’t get much info from your DISE?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 thank you for responding by the way. I hope you’re seeing results from DJS. Sending support your way!
@@coyotestarastrology it's possible. Have you watched my video on how to tell if you need MSE? How many of those criteria do you fit?
As for dise, it told me what I already knew. Wasn't worth the money.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 thanks so much for the info on your experience.
I’ve been fully evaluated by many ents, orthos, and a full CT done at the breath institute - all report narrow palate / scalloped tongue etc. and think this is one of my only remaining options. I had a UPP so I don’t qualify for MAS, which is kind of terrifying considering that leaves on MSE for the most part. I’m so desperate for sleep I’d do anything at this point, I’m barely clinging to my sanity
Hey, Ive been wanting to get an opinion on what my needs are exactly for my mouth and jaw. How do find a professional with expertise in this? What are they called?
Oromaxillofacial surgeon
Have you ever considered acid reflux as a cause of the inflammation? It is the reason I get inflammation, so could it be an underlying problem for you as well?
I used to have really bad acid reflux but I changed my diet dramatically and I no longer have it. That was life changing though, it cured my depression.
You were trying to figure out why you still have some nasal congestion…do you think it may just be restricted airway due to “external” reasons? The skin/cartilage of your nose collapsing?? It’s the reason your Breathe-right strips work.
As our face grows down and back (in cases of vertical growth), it drags the tip of the nose and skin downward, following the chin. The bony top part of the nose remains anchored to the skull, thus causing the characteristic bony “bump” in the middle of the nose. The nose is thinner in most vertical skeletal growers. Maybe it’s the nose itself that can use enlargement..?? Opening the actual entrance/start of the nasal airway. I think they do this by adding cartilage rings to support the nostril openings. I mean, if our facial growth is narrow, the entire airway/tube needs to be addressed/enlarged. From beginning to end.
For my case, my opinion is it's about 20% due to nasal valve collapse, 30% due to narrow nasal cavity (even after expansion), and 50% turbinate hypertrophy. These things also effect eachother so these percentages don't really make sense but it's just what I believe is most important to tackle.
Did mma expand your nasal cavity? Did you see any improvement after 6month?
Turbinate swelling is either allergy to airborne irritant OR a hidden food intolerance causing digestive tract inflammation. Both the digestive tract, the sinuses and the lungs are all made from the same mesenchymal tissue as an embryo. The best way to determine if it’s diet is to fast water only. If the swelling goes away then you can bet you are eating foods unfit for humans. An elimination diet needs to be commenced. The only true elimination diet is carnivore diet as animal protein and fat is all that’s biologically needed to sustain human life. Carnivore followed by introduction of one food at a time for 1 week at a time listening and recording your body reaction. Hope this helps it’s hard to digest for many because changing diet is the hardest thing to change in an individual.
It's funny you say that bc I'm slowly transitioning to a carnivore diet to try exactly that. But I tried keto once before and it was hard and it sucked... But eh I'll try carnivore, fine
@@evanlavizadeh4032 excellent move. Red meat and salt and water only for the elimination style approach wins. Dairy and eggs can be problematic for many and are hard to remove for many. They can be added later if tolerated but the second you have two or three other food groups it’s impossible to tell what is doing what.
@@matthewprice4107 damn. Sigh. Ok. Any suggestions for how long this experiment should be?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 most people of normal body weight without known or hidden chronic digestive tract disease (like IBD) who are not overweight or obese will notice changes in nasal airway breathing within the first two months. But if falling back into old habit often the nasal inflammation will return. It’s about finding out what works for the individual with a well planed elimination diet. Then once you know what you can and can’t eat your more likely not to touch the things that don’t serve you.
@@matthewprice4107 2 months, wow that's brutal. I'll prob do a week
Hi im new to your channel and i was wondering if at the end you could rest the tongue in the roof with no problem and when ur sleeping if theres no obstruction also thanks for telling this
I have to wait until I get MSE removed to tell. I am sure i will be able to rest my tongue on the roof (because I was able to before with training) but I dont think it will be enough to cure OSA.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Thanks for replying me also keep the good work!!
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I forgot to tell you that i can sleep with no problem but before i had a severe sleep apnea but now i have slight problems but i cant rest the tongue on the roof so basically kind of the opposite of your case D:
the inflammation sounds like it could be diet related. have you tried an elimination protocol like carnviore, keto, low histamine etc?
I have kind of but I would like to explore those more. I met a dietition who didn't have much to say. I wanna consult with more. Would hate to commit to a diet without knowing more.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Nutrition is a very complex world and can be highly individual. But there are some red lines I would suggest that could bring big improvements. No seed oils, grains or highly processed foods. Agree somewhat that you should know your stuff before committing fully but you could always try something for a week and it might work. If you haven't already I recommend looking into the top tier health experts like Brian Sanders. Paul Saladino, Mark Sisson and Rob Wolfe. Hope it goes well for you!
You expanded 8mm with the MSE? Also, how much did the other people expand with the MSE?
Yeah. I think 10+ is considered large expansion
@@evanlavizadeh4032 have you tried Nedipot for the enlarged turbunates? Also, how are you going to expand the teeth on your lower jaw?
@@bigdino475 yup I use them almost every day. I'm expanding the teeth in my lower jaw with Invisalign.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 was your expansion symmetrical or asymmetrical?
@@bigdino475 symmetrical
If the issues started wen u put invisalign in id say they are retracting your maxilla and hence changing the angle of of entry for air. But then again u have so many things going not 100% what would cause the issue. Be great to see the outcome soon evan. Goodluck
hmm thats an interesting point to consider. Hopefully thats all corrected during MMA.
Invisalign is just a scam
Quick question bro, does Deviated septum cause heart palpitations while sleeping, brain fog and anxiety?
Well deviated septum can exacerbate sleep apnea. So if you have sleep apnea, then yes. Get tested for sleep apnea.
Deviated septum itself is a symptom of compromised palate/maxila development. With underdeveloped maxilla, you have much smaller volume to fit all the nasal organs and structure. Septum itself needs adequate room to stand straight, and if the maxilla is pushed back, then septum will have to buckle to one side to adapt. Also, high arched palate can push up the septum from its base, making it buckle.
@@hassanjamal4212 i don't know much about it. But what can i do? I wake up sometimes with racing heart and sweats like i had a nightmare
Also, have you considered the inspire implant?
It doesn't help with lateral pharyngeal wall collapse which my DISE showed. So it wouldn't cure me.
Were you using your nasal cpap after you finished expanding?
I did for a short time but the expander made my tongue posture bad which caused me to have CPAP mouth leaks. So I am now on Full face CPAP mask.
Hi evan I've been watching your videos for a while now and it seems we have very similar symptoms, I'm suffering very badly and I would really appreciate contacting you to discuss what I should do, please reply to this comment with a way I can contact you
email me at elavizadeh@gmail.com and we can have a conversation over email or over the phone after that :) If you haven't already, get a sleep study (that scores RERA's and uses the 3% desat index). That's the first step.
Can you shomehow measure nasal breathing efficiency? Not many knowledgeable docs in my country about all this stuff
How is your overall ortho experience? Do you stop Invisalign and do your surgery and then start Invisalign over again? Do you do Ipr with your Invisalign? So because your doing surgery and have done mse does that mean that your ortho journey will longer than around 2 years which I know is a general estimate of what others usually get told?
My ortho experience is good. All I've done so far is: MSE (twice) and now invisalign. I will be going into MMA surgery in Dec and I will keep my invisalign (or possibly switch to traditional braces) and continue treatment throughout the surgery process. Whats LPR? Idk what my total ortho treatment is actually.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 why switch to traditional braces? I mean is the decisions up to your is one or the other recommended..
IPR is where they sand down space in between your teeth. with a snapper disc or something to create space. It seems they do it a lot with Invisalign.
@@maddylam9455 oh I've seen that. No I didn't do lpr.
Some surgeons just find braces easier to work with. I think your jaws will be too sensitive to take out and clean the Invisalign and then put them back in for a while. Some patients do Invisalign with MMA but not all. There's a trade-off.
I had turbinate reduction surgery and was told it was normal to need surgery again in ten years. It gave me improvement, but swelling really didn't disappear until removing gluten from my diet after we ditched it from our kitchen for our son. If you haven't tried this, you should for a month. Results were apparent in two weeks for me. I had been tested for allergies and wheat wasn't on the list. Intolerance in the gut is not measured with allergy tests. You have an immune response on fire. Figure out what the underlying irritant is. Just try gluten free and dairy free. If you don't want to experiment, fork out the money for food intolerance testing; it is different than allergy testing and it does work.
Could this negation be due to the fact that you were still on PAP at this point in time? In my case it might be different since Im no longer on PAP, but rather inspire.
Great point
@@jawley Yes after 6 months off of PAP I can tell you my nasal breathing improved. I'm happy I'm on inspire, I'm getting the relief I could never get from PAP.
Have you ever just gotten Allergies or asthma treated since that can cause UARs and causes enlarged turbinates get immunotherapy
I tested negative for any allergies
I've been expanding for about a month now I believe, my expansion is going well, but now I'm having nasal valve collapse, so my nasal breathing hasn't really improved.
you're having nasal valve collapse after expansion but not before? That's odd.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 honestly I think I was having it before, but my nasal passages were constricted enough I didn’t notice. My deviated septum seems to have sorted itself out though!
@@nariseconnor7775 ahh I see. Bummer. But there is more that can be done! And this was a necessary component
How do you know if you have a nasal valve collapse?
@@bigdino475 your nose sucks shut on one or both sides when you inhale through it. There is a maneuver doctors have you do, where you put your finger next to your nostril, and pull it away from the midpoint of your face. If your breathing improves you may have nasal valve collapse.
Is this statement correct regarding MSE/MARPSE/SARPE:
The bigger the gap between the two front teeth- the bigger the nasal airway benefit?
In general, yes. But sometimes people's two front teeth start moving or angling in weird ways immediately and gaps appear in other places. But you've got the right idea. Any gap between the two front teeth immediately is connected to a wider nasal cavity and thus better nasal breathing.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Thank you for the reply.
I had a SARPE 2 months ago with a 0.6cm gap between my front teeth, I have a noticable positive change in my nasal breathing, however I cant stop wondering about the idea that it could be even greater, am I right?
I'll be starting an Invisalign treatment in the next few months. Hope it wont relapse.
@@ThisIsMyRoad do you know what form of SARPE you had? What cuts were made?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Yes, Angular SARPE with a butterfly expander. I got out of turns so quickly.
The surgeon did a tradition SARPE except one bone that he didnt cut intentionally, so it wont ruin my molar's bite that badly. (my lower jaw is quite narrow sadly)
What're your thoughts of it?
@@ThisIsMyRoad any nerve damage?
This might sound crazy, but cutting out fruits, vegetables and grains will greatly reduce your inflammation. It's called the carnivore diet. There's so many videos on TH-cam of people who have gone on this diet and cured their chronic illnesses. The reason being that most of the foods we eat cause inflammation.
Best of luck!!!
I've thought about giving that a try and seeing how I feel and what I can introduce but my god that is so hard I don't know if I can honestly. I tried keto for a week and that was brutal. I felt awful. Have you tried it?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I have tried carnivore, but not keto. Been on again off again since October, but still mostly animal based. The longest I've gone eating strictly animal based is a month, and even though I'm not 100%, I've seen major improvements in my health (scalp itchiness, acne, tonsil stones).
I'm a 17 years old and haven't undergone any treatment yet, but I'm banking on carnivore to help keep inflammation down for whenever I do get treatment, whatever that will look like.
I'm glad to hear that you've at least heard of it before! I hope you give it another go.
@@toplobster1040 that's fantastic. Glad to hear it helped. That definitely is encouraging. gosh how do you do it though?
Are you considering turbinate reduction?
Already had it. Did nothing
Looks like your midface got a bit wider, did you notice any asymmetry in your jaw improve?
I didn't notice a change in my symmetry. I don't notice much in my face either but I havent really been looking honestly. Could be a tiny change?
I don't know if this is really "the truth about MSE".....it's more about other factors that lead to you seeing less than ideal improvements to your symptoms after doing MSE expansion (which seems like it was somewhat successful).
Maybe, its the way you are breathing? Have you had a look at the buteyko method?
Yes I have. I liked those exercises but didn't effect my sleep
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Hi, maybe if you are still experiencing some nasal congestion, you should have a look into Alaxo Lito Plus or Alax Lito Extreme Nasal stents. There nitonol stents which prevent the inflammation of the nasal passage of actually causing obstruction?
You said in this video that your nasal breathing ability went from 70-80% to 50%... is 50% still better than how you started?
Yeah sorry, the scale I made up is confusing. 0% = perfect breathing. 100% = no improvement. So 50% is halfway to perfect from where I started.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 That's still better than nothing... speaking for myself at least, that sounds like progress. I see from your post-op MMA video that the surgery helped somewhat too. Thank you for this information, it's very helpful.
@@MWood-tf7zd yep and it's improved a lot since
GERD?
How old are you? I'm 37 and was told that I'm too old for MSE by the only MSE provider in UK. He seems to do it only up to early twenties...
I'm 26 and your provider is probably right.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 The inventor of MSE said it can be done at almost any age. Apparently he did 38 years old and 54 years old.
@@grzegorz16100 the success rate is much higher in adult women. He's probably talking about that. Technically, it can work. But be aware that it is likely to fail and you'd have to move to SARPE
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I'm pretty sure it was about male. If I start identifying as a woman will that help?
@@grzegorz16100 ok well it certainly isn't a bad idea to try. And no it won't help.
At what point do you start eating normal food and not just smoothies 😭😭
You have to do a food test
im suprised you are not talkiong about how it will improve your looks
Updateeeee
I'll try soon haha.
Did your nose get wider?
I can't quite tell, to be honest.
Is this the balloon face that mse gives some people or did you look like this initially?
I've never heard of the balloon face but mse doesn't change the look of your face. Only the smile/teeth. There are exceptions but it's extremely rare.
Way too early to tell man. Wait a few months.
You're right. :)