I have every single one of those signs. High arched palate, scalloping, narrow intermolar distance, sleep apnea and teeth dont fill my smile. Glad I got my MSE yesterday!
Evan, thank you for the educational videos about your experience with MSE. I have to install the extender in a couple of weeks. Your videos help me stay confident that this is the right thing and not get nervous.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I finally installed it! And it was not as scary and painful as it seemed. I did it yesterday and feel great today. The only problem that is uncomfortable is that the tongue hurts. Guys, if you need to install MSE, don’t hesitate, go for it. Evan, thanks for your videos! Stay Safe! Take care of yourself!
I have been growing fascinated with this for years. I have pretty much ALL the signs that you listed in this video. Very crowded teeth, receded chin, flat cheekbones, very long, narrow face, gaunt undereyes, high palate, deviated septum, chronic mouth breathing, lots of shadow on either side of my very narrow smile, and I simply cannot maintain breathing through my nose. I love the information you provided, thank you. Unfortunately it's quite depressing as I've been sitting on this information for years, but not sure how to go about it. I'm in England, and when I Google anything about maxillary expansion here, the results are so scant.
It consistently surprises me how sparsely available these treatments are in England. Hope this helps docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Dkf8f3a6P_87KGneFEiFoLrreGb3K6gb6XXpulL4Ju4/edit?usp=drivesdk
Hi Brianna, I'm looking into MSE as well, and I have lots of the same issues (starting from childhood). Just wanted to say that it's still highly possible to become a nasal breather and improve posture of the jaw, neck and chin. It won't expand your skull, but even just practicing nose breathing and lightly taping your mouth shut at night makes a huge difference! I never thought I'd be able to nose breathe before, and it wasn't easy or pretty at first but I don't mouth breathe at all now, and I don't tape my mouth anymore. Really is a life-changer. If you're interested in this I found out about it from James Nestor and Patrick McKeown (who has great simple advice and practices). I also want the MSE of course cuz you simply can't replicate what it does! Anyway, just wanted to share a lil of my story since it seems similar to yours. All the best.
thank you so much! my adult daugher is getting some wisdom teeth removed next week and then we'll look at palatel expansion. She has a high arched palate and will need braces as well as an expander in the future. I was anxious, as she is very, about the need for jaw surgery, but i believe that an expander should be of great help. Your words have comforted and reassured me.
Glad this has helped. just so you know, if you get expansion, it's possible to keep the wisdom teeth instead of remove it since there will be more space now for the teeth. Still, it can be a good idea to remove it, but it's an option.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 we've been sitting on extractions for a while, and it's already paid up. She not only has high arched palate and an open bite, but teeth are a bit crowded as well, so this will indeed help for future shifting ease...hopefully! braces will come later as well. oooh boy! thanks again.
Getting mine done and can't wait! I wish I would have known sooner. I'm in the Seattle area, so if anyone is interested I can give you my contacts who I'm going to be working with. She's amazing! :)
Thank you so much for these videos! So helpful! I’m wondering if anyone here has a team of airway-focused providers on the east coast? Thank you, ya’ll!
I had my wisdom teeth pulled out because they were irritating and would be uncomfortable, I have a high palate, sleep apnea, ugly crooked teeth, a strange long ugly face, narrow nasty palate and I feel once I got my wisdom teeth out my mouth is more narrow even tho I feel good without them in there but I would’ve kept it in there if I knew this ahead of time. I hope this will still work for me.
I have been really struggling with sleep last 4 years late 20's onwards to 30's. I ticked all these boxes. I had deviated septum and turbinate reduction over the last 2 years, didn't fix my sleeping. Had a sleep study and was diagnosed with moderate sleep apnea and put on cpap. I have had braces when I was young, teeth pulled, wisdoms out. Teeth are now crooked again. My upper palette is very narrow and my tounge hurts every day. I am very worn out and it's because of sleep, I couldn't care less with my appearance. It's all tying together with needing this done.
Ive been trying to get help with this for years but nobody listens to me, my deep, upper narrow palate is about an inch deep and at the front i cant even fit 1 finger between it because its so narrow, i have breathing issues and severe sleep apnea, CPAP does nothing to help me. When i went to see a maxillofacial surgeon he told me my palate was normal lol, this is what we get on the NHS in England!
Great video, yes high bolted palate is highly correlated with a deviated septum. Check out the book breathe by James Nestor great book, except where he calls homeoblock a fix for a transverse deficient maxilla. Good luck with MMA!!
Hi Evan, thanks so much for another great video. I have a question: why did you opt for MSE and not for SARPE. What are the benefits of MSE vs SARPE in your opinion? And how did you talk to the surgeon who most likely tried to convince you to have SARPE? (this is awaiting me very soon so I would hugely appreciate your answer). Thank so much for sharing your story - it is extremely helpful and appreciated :) PS. Yay Max ;D
Oops so sorry for the delay! MSE is less invasive and has better breathing benefits (although the degree is debated). I'm going to make a video soon talking about this but I thought it was worth $3k to try MSE. My surgeon is referral only, but luckily I selected an orthodontist who is my surgeon's colleague so that's how I got the consultation.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I've had 2 consults in Atlanta, GA, and a consult with Dr. Ting in California. All 3 said that I would need surgery assisted MSE so it's not as simple as opting for MSE and not expecting to have surgery.
I have a very narrow and high palate, and to make the matter even worse, i have one extra front tooth, and on top of that, my teeth are bigger than average. So basically my orthodontist told me the only way I can fix my crooked teeth is to have that extra tooth extracted along with two additional teeth on either side. When i brought up this expander she said it is too late for non-invasive palatal expansion and the only way i could maybe achieve this is to have my palate surgically cut in half and then expanded (also my lower jaw is the size it should be, so much bigger than my upper jaw, and because of that my ortho told me there is risk involved that i will have underbite after braces treatment)
I think my biggest question is whether or not my tongue is enlarged or my maxilla too narrow. I had orthodontia for cross bite, over bite, and palate expansion (was a thumb sucker). I think they didn't correct enough as my tongue still doesn't fit, but I also wonder if I just have an enlarged tongue, my jaw and smile already being quite wide. I don't have sleep apnea diagnosis, but find that a cpap helps me sleep better, so I'm digging deep into UARS.
The only common way a tongue can become enlarged is excessive weight gain. The tongue stores a surprising amount of fat. How's your weight? Could be a contributor. Regardless, if you needed all that treatment, it's also possible you just couldn't correct your deficiencies sufficiently.
Amazing video! So happy I just found your channel, such great content! So if I understand you correctly, MSE/MARPE can fix a deviated septum? Or does one still need to straighten the septum after expanding the maxilla? Also, how has your breathing improved since you expanded yourself? I assume it is better, since you are not wearing any nasal strips in this video, no?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 So you are going to straighten yours after finishing the expansion? Also, do you know if this is preferable, as opposed to straighten the septum before expanding with MSE/MARPE? Otherwise, nice to hear you are feeling better! Looking forward to the next video! :)
will the high arched pallat go down with MARPE? very informitive video, i need to do this stuff, have troubles with breathing and sleep all of my life.
My problems: 1. Wisdom tooth removal 2. Overcrowding 3. Wide buccal corrdors 4. Recently developed difficulty in breathing nasally (enlarged turbinates) 5. Overbite 6. High arched palate 7. narrow lower+upper palate I really think I am a best candidate for this
Hey Evan ! Did you notice some changes of your nose from outside in regards to how it looks ? Is it aesthetically wider ? And how is the teeth straightening and gap closing going ?
I haven't noticed anything with my nose. Funny you ask about the teeth. They were closing on their own before I got Invisalign but it turns out my ortho forgot to give me this temporary retainer to prevent my gap from closing because then the Invisalign was a really tight fit. So now the Invisalign kinda separated my teeth back again by a bit and it's gonna continue closing again. lol
Nice vid man! So after expansion you need braces/Invisalign to close the gap. Do you NEED extra surgery after this or is it just you? and would the bottom part of your jaw need to be tampered with also? Thanks!
Yes, I'm getting double jaw surgery in December. The MARPE won't be enough. That's my prediction, but I will get a Drug induced sleep endoscopy exam after I get my MARPE removed to verify.
I've noticed this, when you go under surgery to get your sutures opened, and expander. After, many people have a lisp? what causes this. I'm highly interested in this Maxillary Expansion due to my incisor overlapping another. since my childhood and I believe I have a high arching palate. I haven't seen any orthodontic/dental professional in 6 years and I'm currently 18. I talked to my mom about seeing an Orthodontist and we're gonna see the dentist first she said in 2 weeks. I also really want to avoid having to take out my wisdom teeth because I also understand teeth can help structure the face a little bit. Do you have any advice for when I meet the Dentist because I want to also see an Orthodontist.
Can the mse appliance recreate the space from having 1st premolars extracted for braces? I feel like I'm a candidate for mse but haven't heard anything about it being useful for those who wish to correct extractions.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I've called practically every orthodontist in my city mse isn't popular enough, are there any offices in Chicago or Detroit areas that you know of?
Hey Evan, thanks for these videos, all these vids are very informative and encouraging. I am hoping to get an mse put in by Dr Yoon as well and was hoping to ask you a few questions about the process with her. Would you mind if I emailed you?
I’m 16, I have all of these problems even after braces and I have to wear retainers every night. I asked my orthodontist about MSE expansion and she said that it’s “too much hastle to alter bone structure and too much pain.” I would do mse even if it’s at the cost of a few weeks of pain for a permanent wide smile for life. What should I do?
@@LewisWin I can't tell you whether or not MSE would be a good idea in your case without more information but MSE is not painful generally. But yes you would have to do MSE and then braces all over again. You may be able to save some money if you are diagnosed with obstructive sleep apnea because then insurance should cover it.
If I open my mouth and relax my tongue, then bite I would bite 4mm of the top of my tongue off. Doesn’t mean that side MSE expansion alone won’t get my tongue out of my airways? Doesn’t this mean I have to have forward expansion?
Hi Evan, Thank you for the informations. Very helpful. Just out of curiosity, how many mm did you widen your maxilla? Who did you get the MSE from and how much did it cost you?
Not decrease the settings but My nasal congestion is a bit better, so I don't wake up super annoyed with CPAP and nasal congestion which is so uncomfortable. I'd often wake up at 5:00 a.m. and not be able to go back to sleep due to nasal congestion which doesn't happen anymore.
i do think that i need an expander since i had my teeth removed because there wasnt enough space and my palate is too narrow but my dentist would not allow me to have expander because it will break my mouth. I have an ugly smile and i think im gonna wear mask forever💀💀💀. This video is helpful thank u
I can’t breathe! The video hasn’t even started yet but o can’t breathe. I had lefort 1 osteotomy five years ago but palate relapsed since i had already developed bones fully and did medical palate expansion
how high should a palate be? where does it get measured from? I havent found any information regarding how high a vaulted one is, only that more than 2 cm or so but it wasnt accurate
Evan Lavizadeh you should do another video explaining these types of surgeries. Like explaining their names, what the surgeon does, what it fixes, etc.. you seem to be very knowledgeable and I can understand what you’re saying.
@@junior17medval i only listed those cus they are what I'm somewhat familiat with. I know there are different types of Lefort 1, and i guess L2 and 3 are for very extreme cases
Evan, hello:) Did you look at MRNA and DNA appliances? Has anyone here? Are they better than ALF? Functional in amyone's experience to avoid double jaw surgery?
There's no evidence suggesting one way or the other. This is not a well studied topic but my orthodontist feels it doesn't really make much of a difference. Just listen to your Ortho. If you're experiencing pain and excessive pressure, your Ortho may instruct you to pause for a day or two and resume at a slower pace.
Hello Evan and everyone here Here is my case and i want anyone to help me with this thing The main reason of getting an Mse for me is to get my maxilla more forward for my jaw (mandible) to come forward Basically aesthetic purposes and mainly to get my face more forward My maxilla is a lil bit below (Optimal) width and forwardness My palate is wide in the beginning (back of the tongue place) but a tad bit tight in the end (behind uppear teeth I dont have dental crowding/crooking Just normal teeth (not straight though) So this is my palate/face/teeth case My question is. Is MSE worth it? And how much expansion is needed? And also for how long? Thanks
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Thanks for the response man, I hope you keep this channel going I think you'll end up being the first person to vlog about having both MSE and jaw surgery. Good luck and all the best.
Hey Evan! Quick question. How soon after you completed expansion did you start the corrective orthodontics? I’m doing invisiline trays, and my understanding is that after expansion stops and the arms come off the device, the teeth will naturally begin to shift a bit on their own. My concern is considering invisiline trays take a couple weeks to come in, that the trays may not fit due to the teeth naturally shifting in between scanning and their arrival. How did it work with yours?
Very very good question. That's exactly right. Your orthodontist office should give you a temporary retainer to wear once the arms come off. They should have a machine to make it in house. My orthodontist's office forgot and once the Invisalign got delivered it didn't fit. So then they had to rescan and fabricate a new set of trays which delayed my treatment. So definitely make sure you get a retainer the very day they scan for Invisalign
@@evanlavizadeh4032you’re the best! Thank you for your speedy reply. I’m so glad I asked. My ortho looked at me with glazed eyes when I asked this question but that makes perfect sense. Thank you so much.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 sorry one more question- how long did you wait before starting the ortho? My surgeon said 2-4 weeks “it doesn’t really matter”, my ortho said 5, but tbh my ortho has been wrong about a bunch of things. Thoughts?
@@coyotestarastrology I actually am a bit of a special case. The arms were starting to push on my teeth a little bit towards the end of expansion but I wanted to keep going. So my orthodontist cut off the arms, and then gave me Invisalign. And I proceeded to still expand super slowly with with the Invisalign in and the arms off. I did have a special expander which did allow me to do this a bit better
What do you think of distraction osteogenesis for adults ?I mean lower jaw surgery does damage to the nerves and i have been hearing that distraction osteogenesis is a gradual process in which they make a small fracture of the mandible and each day you have to turn a the distractor thereby lengthening your jaw ever so slightly .
Do you know if there are any cons of getting a MSE? Im 16 and I have overcrowding on the top and a cross bite, affecting my face. I have a good jaw line but my lips are uneven. One slants down and the other is good. I also have a high canine. I only have 2 months to really decide whether to do it or not since turn 17 in September. Im just wondering what will my health draw backs? But from what you're saying if we are supposed to have a wider maxilla, than that makes sense. As the orthodontist has said my arch is narrow, and I also have an uneven center line. I might have to do an MSE, as I don't want to do an tooth extraction. i don't have any sleep problems or anything but just I don't have a good bite, not good teeth, have a high canine, my lower canines actually turn in too so they're kinda not that used too. My center line is off my lips are completely off and one side of my jaw is larger than the other. I want to fix these problems but like teeth extractions I thought MSE would have negative effects later in life but really it seems as your mouth/jaw is actually supposed to be wider.
Thanks alot for this video! So, I'm having a hard time finding any providers who do this kind of work. I've visited a bunch of ENTs for nasal problems and other docs (and even have had nasal surgeries), but no one ever mentions treatments like this, max expansion, etc. And it seems like everyone else finds doctors who do these kinds of things mentioned here, but I can't find anyone who seems to know anything like this, its so discouraging. 😔 Should I look for orthodontists, maxillofacial surgeons, sleep doctors, specific types? I'm having no luck, struggling for a long time. Im in Dallas, Texas. Thanks in advance!
I understand the feeling. Here is a list of MSE providers. There are a bunch in TX. Ask your providers who they can recommend in the area for consultations about your treatment as a whole. Not all of these providers will be necessarily sleep focused so you may have to manage your case on your own. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Dkf8f3a6P_87KGneFEiFoLrreGb3K6gb6XXpulL4Ju4/edit?ouid=105116528173900516629&usp=sheets_home&ths=true
I've had multiple teeth extractions, I have a narrow buccal corridor and a very high arched palate. I don't have any breathing problems or sleep apnea, though sleep apnea runs in my family. I'm 19 years old. Do you think MSE is worth it?
Have you had a sleep study? Either way, if you're going to get braces anyway then maybe it's worth exploring. If you are negative for sleep apnea and have no plans to get braces anytime soon, maybe wait?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I get it now. I need a proper surgery SARPE and have to get a surgeon to do it. Found one Orthodontist in Germany who can do mse but quite expensive and covid restrictions are quite bad in this country...
I have a narrow buccal corridor and a crooked wisdom tooth that sits on the ramus. Do i have a narrow palate or is my poor forward jaw growth the problem?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I already installed MARPE device, but due to a lot of infections (swelling around the device), I had to remove it without getting any expansion noticed. I don't know if it was the doctor's mistake or my age (26 years) I'm so confused, should I try with MARPE again or maybe it is better to do SARPE.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I have watched so many videos for many TH-camrs about this matter, I only enjoyed yours because it was very helpful and insightful.
@@abdulrazzakshebli3174 thank you for the kind words. I'm not sure whose fault it is that you got an infection. Make sure to clean the area very well next time. You can also use chlorohexidine mouthwash to fight infections. But it will stay in your teeth so make sure you get teeth cleaning after. I think it's okay to try again with MARPE if you like. SARPE is not gonna be better in terms of infection. Hopefully, your provider can replace the expander for free.
I live in nyc and currently saving up for MSE treatment with invasalign. I have multiple reasons of the things you said that are signs of you may need MSE treatment. I had extractions(premolars) for braces now their is crowding on my bottom teeth and well one wisdom tooth may need to extracted and also I have congestion. Only problem now is how can find providers in my area for MSE treatment? And possible jaw surgery? As I do have asymmetric teeth and jaw.
awesome! your Invisalign looks great. Does your ortho do the clin check herself? and show you ect. and is experienced on how to expand with Invisalign,in this case expanding your mandible as much as is safe ect? I know it can be hard to find an ortho whois truly experienced with aligners and implementing tads. I am looking for an ortho who is experienced with tads and Invisalign for treatment, any tips on finding one? anything helps! thank you so much for these videos. I am also in Southern California.
Yes my ortho is experienced in all of this stuff. She's amazing. I don't really know how to say whether one provider is better than another. I do believe my provider is one of the best but I don't really know how to judge other providers. My provider publishes research in this field, which is important to me. So if that's important to you, you could look through the literature and find who's pushing this field?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 you had multiple consultations right? what made you choose your orthodontist ultimately? thanks! so you were looking for an ortho knowledgeable in sleep apnea, that was top on your list. how is Invisalign treatment going post expansion. will you make a video about that? thank you!
Also! I have a question. Does your ortho make you have cavity clearance checks? and dental visits ect. I am aware any decay or big things need to get taken care of of course. But I am talking about very small areas where dentist is recommending fillings. Things that don't really show up on X-rays. I know some offices treat you differently, while others let you take care of those tiny things throughout treatment. I am trying to know ahead of time before I go places
@@maddylam9455 yes! Also, my Ortho works with my surgeon who is under my insurance. And my Ortho is close. And she publishes research in the field which I like. Invisalign is going well :) pretty standard. I will mention it in a video all though there's really not much to mention.
Patients typically need tooth extractions because they're jaws are not wide enough to support all their incoming teeth. so if you expand the jaw, you make more room for the teeth, and are thus able to possibly avoid extractions
I'm an engineer. Which I'm very thankful pays enough for these treatments. But I was able to get insurance to pay a portion too, but it took a long time. I also got tax deductibles from it, which I made a video on.
I have TMJ issues and my dentist want me to put on expander like WTF??? asking $6100 for it! I do not have sleep apnea. I had braces 9yrs ago and took 4 healthy teeth, but I do not think my palate is narrow.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 they want removable for the upper and they want fixed on the lower. I do not have narrow palate, my smile as as wide as Julia Roberts with no spacing lol. They did not show me what it looks like. But I am declining it. I am sure you having a narrow palate wont cause you to have TMJ issues. It's unrelated. He just wants money.
One question please, if i dont have crossbite and i expand my maxilla, would that make my bite off because you cant expand the mandible (except ur under 12)?
Yes that will limit your expansion. My case is the same. I compensated by expanding orthodontically. You can expand the mandible with MSDO (but it can be risky) and you can expand orthodontically even further with SFOT.
@@danielamadalina6266 Yes that is possible, but extractions will not change the size of your jaw. So that will be an issue whether your do MSE before or after extractions. I have the same issue. My upper jaw is now much larger. My ortho is correcting this with braces but it isn't a perfect solution. It may have adverse consequences years down the line, but nobody knows yet.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 oh sorry i meant to say that orthos most of the time recommend extractions for crowded teeth . And bcs a lot of ppl are saying that extractions ruined their faces i looked into other solutions ( like MSE). I dont wanna get the extractions but it seems like MSE wouldnt be the best for me. Because then my lower jaw would be to small and this would cause more problems i think . Sorry for my language, english isnt my first language
@@danielamadalina6266 ohh I see your concern! Hmm that's a tricky one. I would get multiple opinions. And I would specifically see an airway focused orthodontist as well. They particularly know about the damaging effects of extractions. Fortunately, I think you're old enough that extractions wouldn't cause the most damage. But still, it's good to get multiple opinions.
It's highly dependent on the patient. some patients find that the gap never even appears because the teeth just start to move on their own. But for me.... I think 5-6 months total? I forgot haha
my palate is like a wide V and high arched, at its widest its 56mm but narrow in the front. Im dealing with one nostril getting blocked a lot while sleeping. do you think MSE or sarpe would be something for me?
Very similar to my palate Aegis. It depends on how old you are also. With Sarpe a lot of providors modify it now so its not like traditional sarpe and even better. What country are you from?
@@RB621337 Im swedish, i have decided to go with surgically assisted MARPE+MSDO for lower instead since its newer and bone anchored will yield superior results.
@@hauptmanngilbertoduber9953 Nice, I'm going with surgically assisted Sarpe with TPD and PMD 9mm expansion, should be some sweet nasal breathing benefits!
Orthodontist told me that I was not a candidate for MSE. I have a deviated septum and enlarged turbinates which contributes to OSA. Also I experience TMJ issues and a large tongue. Should I get a second opinion?
my jaws are recessed. So I needed marpe to expand my maxilla (make it wider) and i need DJS to move both jaws forward. My airways are small in multiple dimensions.
I need your help. I want to expanded my upper plate naturally plzzz help me😓😓 plzz tell me the quickly answering a method. I need ur help. I do not like to live in this world
If by naturally, you mean without expanders like MARPE or MSE, it's not possible. That's just my opinion. There are doctors who disagree and think it's possible. But there are plenty of proven ways to do it with medical intervention. I did it.
Hello, I'm good! Thank you for asking, my friend. That's very thoughtful of you. I haven't been making as many videos because this darn expander is making me feel so sleepy.
I don't think the mandible neccesarily expands sideways, but instead it repositions itself more forward. Check out this vid for more info: th-cam.com/video/0I1Jw7Wm9uQ/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=JawHacks
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Ronald Ead on Jawhacks talks about expanding the mandible using a bone graft so that there is room to expand the teeth. Have you considered doing that? I can’t recall the name of the procedure.
Check out the guy from angola with "the world's biggest mouth" he has a really wide palate and has all his wisdom teeth, That's pretty much how everyone should be,
@@thinkgrowhealthy2137 look up "world's widest mouth", (Guinness world records), He can fit a coke can sideways between his cheeks, that's mainly why he won the record, Anyways like i said earlier, he's got a wide palate, wide dental-arches, All teeth including wisdom teeth, (he's got a pretty wide nose too!, not being racist), He's a black guy from angola, (a country in west africa)
Facemask has little to no evidence that it's effective for my age and sex. SFOT only assists dental movement and has no way of opening the airways to resolve sleep apnea. My jaws are very recessed and the only solution to widen my airways with any evidence is MMA. Also, MMA is certainly more invasive than Facemask but that doesn't mean Facemask is safer. I think facemask is just gonna damage my teeth and also limit my MMA potential due to excessive tooth tipping.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Face Mask applies orthopedic forces to the bone when used with MSE. Won Moon talked about this in his MSE presentation in december 2020. That obviously doesn't mean MMA is not needed.
I've heard facemask had little to no effect after a certain age. But Dr. Ting says he has used it with mse to get a very slight effect. We don't seem to have a device yet to move the maxilla in that direction
@@SecretMountainTroll Ting also said to one of his patients that i talked to that adult patientsthat ask for Face mask typically don't comply and only wear it for a limited amount of hours, whereas ideally you want orthopedic force applied 24/7. Also the ting protocol is effective to produce a mid-palatal split but bad at disrupting the pterygo maxillary process, so it is logical that it isn't that effective.
@@SecretMountainTroll there was the case of an adult male patient on TGW that was treated with FM at almost 40 years of age that obtained 5 mms of A point movement with the ALT-RAMEC protocol
Hey another question if you don't mind mate, at what point is the invisalign put on during/after MSE? Is it just the first ortho appointment you have once the expansion is finished or is there a small wait while things settle into place?
There's no need to wait once the expansion is finished. You can get invisalign right after you finish expanding :) However, its two appointments for invisalign. The first is to scan the teeth and give a temporary retainer (because the two front teeth will shift quickly). and second is once the Invisalign gets delivered, pick it up and apply the invisalign "buttons"
@@evanlavizadeh4032 hey man, I have narrow palate at 25 yes old. Need to go in for a 3rd round of braces never had a palate expander done prior. Should I ask my orthodontist for mse? I also have somewhat tmj and grinding at night. And my new ortho also didn’t put on a palate expander. He just put braces on top and 6 weeks later will put on bottom. Let me know! Thanks.
4:21 - 1. dental crowding/crooked teeth
2. malocclusion
3. problems with breathing or nasal congestion as your nasal width is also lower
5:45 - 1. Narrow Buccal Corridor
2. Mouth breather/Rest tongue posture is downward
6:13 - 1. High Arched Palate - Causes deviated septum
I want to ask you 1st shall I correct the crooked teeth and nasal congestion first before the expanders ??
@@yahyaelmi8435 no. After
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I want to do turbinate reduction and MSE expander , I want to ask you is spiriting of the sutures a must ?
@@yahyaelmi8435 yes, it's a must.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 did the MSE expander help with insomnia and sleep disturbances
I have every single one of those signs. High arched palate, scalloping, narrow intermolar distance, sleep apnea and teeth dont fill my smile. Glad I got my MSE yesterday!
Ahh congrats! How exciting!
How has your experience been with the MSE so far?
How are you feeling now ?
please give me update because i am suffering very much, and i also want to do that,, was it successfull or not??
update?
Evan, thank you for the educational videos about your experience with MSE. I have to install the extender in a couple of weeks. Your videos help me stay confident that this is the right thing and not get nervous.
Please update us how things are going, and good luck :)
No way! That's so exciting. Have you gotten it installed yet?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I finally installed it! And it was not as scary and painful as it seemed. I did it yesterday and feel great today. The only problem that is uncomfortable is that the tongue hurts. Guys, if you need to install MSE, don’t hesitate, go for it. Evan, thanks for your videos! Stay Safe! Take care of yourself!
@@vadimgladovskiy6987 no way! I'm so happy for you. Keep me updated!
@@vadimgladovskiy6987 Did your orthodontist puncture the sutre in the maxilla to aid expansion?
I have been growing fascinated with this for years. I have pretty much ALL the signs that you listed in this video. Very crowded teeth, receded chin, flat cheekbones, very long, narrow face, gaunt undereyes, high palate, deviated septum, chronic mouth breathing, lots of shadow on either side of my very narrow smile, and I simply cannot maintain breathing through my nose.
I love the information you provided, thank you.
Unfortunately it's quite depressing as I've been sitting on this information for years, but not sure how to go about it. I'm in England, and when I Google anything about maxillary expansion here, the results are so scant.
It consistently surprises me how sparsely available these treatments are in England. Hope this helps docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Dkf8f3a6P_87KGneFEiFoLrreGb3K6gb6XXpulL4Ju4/edit?usp=drivesdk
@@evanlavizadeh4032 - Thank you, Evan. You're so helpful. I will check these orthodontists out.
Hi Brianna, I'm looking into MSE as well, and I have lots of the same issues (starting from childhood). Just wanted to say that it's still highly possible to become a nasal breather and improve posture of the jaw, neck and chin. It won't expand your skull, but even just practicing nose breathing and lightly taping your mouth shut at night makes a huge difference! I never thought I'd be able to nose breathe before, and it wasn't easy or pretty at first but I don't mouth breathe at all now, and I don't tape my mouth anymore. Really is a life-changer. If you're interested in this I found out about it from James Nestor and Patrick McKeown (who has great simple advice and practices). I also want the MSE of course cuz you simply can't replicate what it does! Anyway, just wanted to share a lil of my story since it seems similar to yours. All the best.
Wow, you are in England and never heard of Drs. Mew? Just goes to show they really want to "erase" those guys...
hey, what does shadow on a smile mean?
Wow! Thank you. I have all the signs and know I need expansion.
I'm happy it was helpful!
thank you so much! my adult daugher is getting some wisdom teeth removed next week and then we'll look at palatel expansion. She has a high arched palate and will need braces as well as an expander in the future. I was anxious, as she is very, about the need for jaw surgery, but i believe that an expander should be of great help. Your words have comforted and reassured me.
Glad this has helped. just so you know, if you get expansion, it's possible to keep the wisdom teeth instead of remove it since there will be more space now for the teeth. Still, it can be a good idea to remove it, but it's an option.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 we've been sitting on extractions for a while, and it's already paid up. She not only has high arched palate and an open bite, but teeth are a bit crowded as well, so this will indeed help for future shifting ease...hopefully! braces will come later as well. oooh boy! thanks again.
Getting mine done and can't wait! I wish I would have known sooner. I'm in the Seattle area, so if anyone is interested I can give you my contacts who I'm going to be working with. She's amazing! :)
How exciting! Good luck! Better late than never.
Im in the seattle area too, lmk if you find anyone
I also am being treated by Dr. Bockow atm, couldn’t agree more
Hi I'm also near the Seattle area and am starting this journey! I'm interested in who your contacts are if you can share 🙂
Hi @carly, I’m also in the Seattle area, and just getting started on the journey. I would love to connect if you’re open to it. :)
Thank you so much for these videos! So helpful!
I’m wondering if anyone here has a team of airway-focused providers on the east coast? Thank you, ya’ll!
I'm wondering the same!
pterry totally can be a middle name imo
I had my wisdom teeth pulled out because they were irritating and would be uncomfortable, I have a high palate, sleep apnea, ugly crooked teeth, a strange long ugly face, narrow nasty palate and I feel once I got my wisdom teeth out my mouth is more narrow even tho I feel good without them in there but I would’ve kept it in there if I knew this ahead of time. I hope this will still work for me.
I have been really struggling with sleep last 4 years late 20's onwards to 30's. I ticked all these boxes. I had deviated septum and turbinate reduction over the last 2 years, didn't fix my sleeping. Had a sleep study and was diagnosed with moderate sleep apnea and put on cpap. I have had braces when I was young, teeth pulled, wisdoms out. Teeth are now crooked again. My upper palette is very narrow and my tounge hurts every day. I am very worn out and it's because of sleep, I couldn't care less with my appearance. It's all tying together with needing this done.
i also got my 4 premolars retracted and also have dns can you share me your contact details so that we can share some info?
Did you see an ortho about it ?
Ive been trying to get help with this for years but nobody listens to me, my deep, upper narrow palate is about an inch deep and at the front i cant even fit 1 finger between it because its so narrow, i have breathing issues and severe sleep apnea, CPAP does nothing to help me. When i went to see a maxillofacial surgeon he told me my palate was normal lol, this is what we get on the NHS in England!
That sucks, sorry to hear that :(
Great video, yes high bolted palate is highly correlated with a deviated septum. Check out the book breathe by James Nestor great book, except where he calls homeoblock a fix for a transverse deficient maxilla. Good luck with MMA!!
I read that book, interesting read. Thank you for the support :)
@@evanlavizadeh4032will your insurance cover double jaw surgery?
@@bigdino475 yes
@@evanlavizadeh4032 how do you get them to cover it?
@@bigdino475 sleep study plus failed CPAP.
Thanks Brother, very valuable info right here.💪🏾
Very helpful video, thanks!
You're welcome :)
Well explained. Thankyou.xx
Hi Evan, thanks so much for another great video. I have a question: why did you opt for MSE and not for SARPE. What are the benefits of MSE vs SARPE in your opinion? And how did you talk to the surgeon who most likely tried to convince you to have SARPE? (this is awaiting me very soon so I would hugely appreciate your answer). Thank so much for sharing your story - it is extremely helpful and appreciated :)
PS. Yay Max ;D
Oops so sorry for the delay! MSE is less invasive and has better breathing benefits (although the degree is debated). I'm going to make a video soon talking about this but I thought it was worth $3k to try MSE. My surgeon is referral only, but luckily I selected an orthodontist who is my surgeon's colleague so that's how I got the consultation.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 thank you so much for replying! :) that is very helpful and hugely appreciated!
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I've had 2 consults in Atlanta, GA, and a consult with Dr. Ting in California. All 3 said that I would need surgery assisted MSE so it's not as simple as opting for MSE and not expecting to have surgery.
@@nmjabour yep of course.
I have a very narrow and high palate, and to make the matter even worse, i have one extra front tooth, and on top of that, my teeth are bigger than average. So basically my orthodontist told me the only way I can fix my crooked teeth is to have that extra tooth extracted along with two additional teeth on either side. When i brought up this expander she said it is too late for non-invasive palatal expansion and the only way i could maybe achieve this is to have my palate surgically cut in half and then expanded (also my lower jaw is the size it should be, so much bigger than my upper jaw, and because of that my ortho told me there is risk involved that i will have underbite after braces treatment)
side not bur ur facial features r really attractive
Thank you very much for this video.
I think my biggest question is whether or not my tongue is enlarged or my maxilla too narrow. I had orthodontia for cross bite, over bite, and palate expansion (was a thumb sucker). I think they didn't correct enough as my tongue still doesn't fit, but I also wonder if I just have an enlarged tongue, my jaw and smile already being quite wide. I don't have sleep apnea diagnosis, but find that a cpap helps me sleep better, so I'm digging deep into UARS.
The only common way a tongue can become enlarged is excessive weight gain. The tongue stores a surprising amount of fat. How's your weight? Could be a contributor. Regardless, if you needed all that treatment, it's also possible you just couldn't correct your deficiencies sufficiently.
I don’t have many of these signs except the last one. My nose got injured due to a basketball and which probably caused the last one.
Great explanation, ty
Amazing video! So happy I just found your channel, such great content! So if I understand you correctly, MSE/MARPE can fix a deviated septum? Or does one still need to straighten the septum after expanding the maxilla? Also, how has your breathing improved since you expanded yourself? I assume it is better, since you are not wearing any nasal strips in this video, no?
Yeah the septum might take time after to straighten
@@onekingaj1004 Sorry, do you mean it may straighten out or not?
I don't know if MSE/MARPE can fix a deviated septum, sorry. Great question though. And i feel better, more details in a vid releasing tonight.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 So you are going to straighten yours after finishing the expansion? Also, do you know if this is preferable, as opposed to straighten the septum before expanding with MSE/MARPE? Otherwise, nice to hear you are feeling better! Looking forward to the next video! :)
@@LittleHarryBrother1 thanks for the kind words! And I've already had septoplasty. I'd imagine it's better to do septoplasty after expansion.
will the high arched pallat go down with MARPE? very informitive video, i need to do this stuff, have troubles with breathing and sleep all of my life.
No it won't. It will be wider but not lower. Good luck :)
My problems:
1. Wisdom tooth removal
2. Overcrowding
3. Wide buccal corrdors
4. Recently developed difficulty in breathing nasally (enlarged turbinates)
5. Overbite
6. High arched palate
7. narrow lower+upper palate
I really think I am a best candidate for this
Haha wow I believe it
Hey Evan ! Did you notice some changes of your nose from outside in regards to how it looks ? Is it aesthetically wider ? And how is the teeth straightening and gap closing going ?
I haven't noticed anything with my nose. Funny you ask about the teeth. They were closing on their own before I got Invisalign but it turns out my ortho forgot to give me this temporary retainer to prevent my gap from closing because then the Invisalign was a really tight fit. So now the Invisalign kinda separated my teeth back again by a bit and it's gonna continue closing again. lol
@@aaronkirsten8079 dr.Audrey Yoon is super super busy. I am really happy with her as my provider but yeah mistakes have been made.
Nice vid man! So after expansion you need braces/Invisalign to close the gap. Do you NEED extra surgery after this or is it just you? and would the bottom part of your jaw need to be tampered with also? Thanks!
Yes, I'm getting double jaw surgery in December. The MARPE won't be enough. That's my prediction, but I will get a Drug induced sleep endoscopy exam after I get my MARPE removed to verify.
I've noticed this, when you go under surgery to get your sutures opened, and expander. After, many people have a lisp? what causes this. I'm highly interested in this Maxillary Expansion due to my incisor overlapping another. since my childhood and I believe I have a high arching palate. I haven't seen any orthodontic/dental professional in 6 years and I'm currently 18. I talked to my mom about seeing an Orthodontist and we're gonna see the dentist first she said in 2 weeks. I also really want to avoid having to take out my wisdom teeth because I also understand teeth can help structure the face a little bit. Do you have any advice for when I meet the Dentist because I want to also see an Orthodontist.
@@chickenoodle3397 the lisp is just because the expander is in the mouth. The lisp goes away when the expander is removed.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Ohhh that makes sense
Thank you very helpful.
Can the mse appliance recreate the space from having 1st premolars extracted for braces? I feel like I'm a candidate for mse but haven't heard anything about it being useful for those who wish to correct extractions.
Yeah it can bring back lost space in your upper arch. You want implants where those teeth were? It can do that.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I've called practically every orthodontist in my city mse isn't popular enough, are there any offices in Chicago or Detroit areas that you know of?
@@mikec1393 docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Dkf8f3a6P_87KGneFEiFoLrreGb3K6gb6XXpulL4Ju4/edit?usp=drivesdk
Hey Evan, thanks for these videos, all these vids are very informative and encouraging. I am hoping to get an mse put in by Dr Yoon as well and was hoping to ask you a few questions about the process with her. Would you mind if I emailed you?
Sorry for the late reply, feel free to email me
I’m 16, I have all of these problems even after braces and I have to wear retainers every night. I asked my orthodontist about MSE expansion and she said that it’s “too much hastle to alter bone structure and too much pain.” I would do mse even if it’s at the cost of a few weeks of pain for a permanent wide smile for life. What should I do?
Would this mean paying a fortune to get mse done and braces on again. Since I live in the UK (Northern Ireland) would I have to pay for all of this?
@@LewisWin I can't tell you whether or not MSE would be a good idea in your case without more information but MSE is not painful generally. But yes you would have to do MSE and then braces all over again. You may be able to save some money if you are diagnosed with obstructive sleep apnea because then insurance should cover it.
so upset that my orthodontist extracted 4 of my premolars. could've gotten a maxilla expansion and not lose my healthy teeth.
Yep :/
If I open my mouth and relax my tongue, then bite I would bite 4mm of the top of my tongue off. Doesn’t mean that side MSE expansion alone won’t get my tongue out of my airways? Doesn’t this mean I have to have forward expansion?
Hi Evan, Thank you for the informations. Very helpful.
Just out of curiosity, how many mm did you widen your maxilla? Who did you get the MSE from and how much did it cost you?
I don't remember but I have a video on it. Has "let's check the scans" in the title. Dr.Audrey Yoon. $3k
entertaining and informative!!
Thanks Evan for another great video! Have you been able to decrease your CPAP setting due to the expansion?
Not decrease the settings but My nasal congestion is a bit better, so I don't wake up super annoyed with CPAP and nasal congestion which is so uncomfortable. I'd often wake up at 5:00 a.m. and not be able to go back to sleep due to nasal congestion which doesn't happen anymore.
i do think that i need an expander since i had my teeth removed because there wasnt enough space and my palate is too narrow but my dentist would not allow me to have expander because it will break my mouth. I have an ugly smile and i think im gonna wear mask forever💀💀💀. This video is helpful thank u
Has anyone heard of face pulling? What is it? Efficacy?
Is a 10 tooth smile broad? (Talking about top row only)
Sorry I'm not sure. How are your buckle corridors? Have you had tooth extractions? Do you have malocclusion? What's your IMW?
bro but there is no proof that upper maxillary growth can lead t deviated nasal septum
I think you're right, it's just a hypothesis. There might be some correlational studies? Not sure though.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 how are you feeling now how is the sleep?
@@kartikchahal4433 good but I'm having insomnia now haha. It will pass, I'm just going through a transitional period in my life.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 bro has you average heart rate dropped after mma?
@@kartikchahal4433 no idea
Great video
I tried using mse but my palatine bone is very thin and it was not recommended as it could fail to open, can sarpe improve nasal breathing?
I can’t breathe! The video hasn’t even started yet but o can’t breathe. I had lefort 1 osteotomy five years ago but palate relapsed since i had already developed bones fully and did medical palate expansion
how high should a palate be? where does it get measured from? I havent found any information regarding how high a vaulted one is, only that more than 2 cm or so but it wasnt accurate
Sorry, I don't know :(
Nice vid again, good luck with the jaw surgery. Do you plan on Lefort 1, 2, or 3?
LeFort 1. I don't think they do LeFort 2 or 3 during MMA. And thanks! :)
LFII is almost never performed and IIIis for Crouzon syndrome
@@vassilistzaferis4277 oh didn't know that
Evan Lavizadeh you should do another video explaining these types of surgeries. Like explaining their names, what the surgeon does, what it fixes, etc.. you seem to be very knowledgeable and I can understand what you’re saying.
@@junior17medval i only listed those cus they are what I'm somewhat familiat with. I know there are different types of Lefort 1, and i guess L2 and 3 are for very extreme cases
Evan, hello:) Did you look at MRNA and DNA appliances? Has anyone here? Are they better than ALF? Functional in amyone's experience to avoid double jaw surgery?
I have looked into those and they are dangerous and ineffective. No they won't prevent jaw surgery.
Hi Evan. How often should someone over 30 adjust their expander per week? I know the older you are the slower the process.
There's no evidence suggesting one way or the other. This is not a well studied topic but my orthodontist feels it doesn't really make much of a difference. Just listen to your Ortho. If you're experiencing pain and excessive pressure, your Ortho may instruct you to pause for a day or two and resume at a slower pace.
Hello Evan and everyone here
Here is my case and i want anyone to help me with this thing
The main reason of getting an Mse for me is to get my maxilla more forward for my jaw (mandible) to come forward
Basically aesthetic purposes and mainly to get my face more forward
My maxilla is a lil bit below (Optimal) width and forwardness
My palate is wide in the beginning (back of the tongue place) but a tad bit tight in the end (behind uppear teeth
I dont have dental crowding/crooking
Just normal teeth (not straight though)
So this is my palate/face/teeth case
My question is. Is MSE worth it? And how much expansion is needed? And also for how long? Thanks
Hello Evan. I wanted to ask you: Did you notice your nasal bone getting bigger because of the MSE expansion? Thx
No I didn't notice anything like that :)
Hey man, has your ortho told you how long the wait between finishing MSE expansion to MMA surgery will be?
9 months or so for me. Depends on how long braces take
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Thanks for the response man, I hope you keep this channel going I think you'll end up being the first person to vlog about having both MSE and jaw surgery. Good luck and all the best.
@@stray4445 huh....that might be true!! Thanks for the encouragement
Hey Evan! Quick question. How soon after you completed expansion did you start the corrective orthodontics? I’m doing invisiline trays, and my understanding is that after expansion stops and the arms come off the device, the teeth will naturally begin to shift a bit on their own. My concern is considering invisiline trays take a couple weeks to come in, that the trays may not fit due to the teeth naturally shifting in between scanning and their arrival. How did it work with yours?
Very very good question. That's exactly right. Your orthodontist office should give you a temporary retainer to wear once the arms come off. They should have a machine to make it in house. My orthodontist's office forgot and once the Invisalign got delivered it didn't fit. So then they had to rescan and fabricate a new set of trays which delayed my treatment. So definitely make sure you get a retainer the very day they scan for Invisalign
@@evanlavizadeh4032you’re the best! Thank you for your speedy reply. I’m so glad I asked. My ortho looked at me with glazed eyes when I asked this question but that makes perfect sense. Thank you so much.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 sorry one more question- how long did you wait before starting the ortho? My surgeon said 2-4 weeks “it doesn’t really matter”, my ortho said 5, but tbh my ortho has been wrong about a bunch of things. Thoughts?
@@coyotestarastrology I actually am a bit of a special case. The arms were starting to push on my teeth a little bit towards the end of expansion but I wanted to keep going. So my orthodontist cut off the arms, and then gave me Invisalign. And I proceeded to still expand super slowly with with the Invisalign in and the arms off. I did have a special expander which did allow me to do this a bit better
Thanks buddy
You're welcome Suvo!
What do you think of distraction osteogenesis for adults ?I mean lower jaw surgery does damage to the nerves and i have been hearing that distraction osteogenesis is a gradual process in which they make a small fracture of the mandible and each day you have to turn a the distractor thereby lengthening your jaw ever so slightly .
I'm not quite sure what you're referring to. Are you referring to the MSDO procedure?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 yes .
Do you know if there are any cons of getting a MSE? Im 16 and I have overcrowding on the top and a cross bite, affecting my face. I have a good jaw line but my lips are uneven. One slants down and the other is good. I also have a high canine. I only have 2 months to really decide whether to do it or not since turn 17 in September. Im just wondering what will my health draw backs? But from what you're saying if we are supposed to have a wider maxilla, than that makes sense. As the orthodontist has said my arch is narrow, and I also have an uneven center line. I might have to do an MSE, as I don't want to do an tooth extraction. i don't have any sleep problems or anything but just I don't have a good bite, not good teeth, have a high canine, my lower canines actually turn in too so they're kinda not that used too. My center line is off my lips are completely off and one side of my jaw is larger than the other. I want to fix these problems but like teeth extractions I thought MSE would have negative effects later in life but really it seems as your mouth/jaw is actually supposed to be wider.
Thanks alot for this video! So, I'm having a hard time finding any providers who do this kind of work. I've visited a bunch of ENTs for nasal problems and other docs (and even have had nasal surgeries), but no one ever mentions treatments like this, max expansion, etc. And it seems like everyone else finds doctors who do these kinds of things mentioned here, but I can't find anyone who seems to know anything like this, its so discouraging. 😔 Should I look for orthodontists, maxillofacial surgeons, sleep doctors, specific types? I'm having no luck, struggling for a long time. Im in Dallas, Texas. Thanks in advance!
I understand the feeling. Here is a list of MSE providers. There are a bunch in TX. Ask your providers who they can recommend in the area for consultations about your treatment as a whole. Not all of these providers will be necessarily sleep focused so you may have to manage your case on your own. docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Dkf8f3a6P_87KGneFEiFoLrreGb3K6gb6XXpulL4Ju4/edit?ouid=105116528173900516629&usp=sheets_home&ths=true
@@evanlavizadeh4032 hey man, I really appreciate your response/help. Keep up the great content. Thanks!
@@nathan4350 no prob! Thanks for the kind words 🥰
Does this make me look good
I've had multiple teeth extractions, I have a narrow buccal corridor and a very high arched palate. I don't have any breathing problems or sleep apnea, though sleep apnea runs in my family. I'm 19 years old. Do you think MSE is worth it?
Have you had a sleep study? Either way, if you're going to get braces anyway then maybe it's worth exploring. If you are negative for sleep apnea and have no plans to get braces anytime soon, maybe wait?
Important question. Did you get your maxillary expansion BEFORE you started your orthodontic treatment?
Yes.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Was the orthodontist involved in the process? Did they have to overlook the process?
@@grzegorz16100 my orthodontist was the only person involved in my expansion
@@evanlavizadeh4032 I get it now. I need a proper surgery SARPE and have to get a surgeon to do it. Found one Orthodontist in Germany who can do mse but quite expensive and covid restrictions are quite bad in this country...
always go to a doctor and explore all options
Yes :)
I have a narrow buccal corridor and a crooked wisdom tooth that sits on the ramus. Do i have a narrow palate or is my poor forward jaw growth the problem?
Narrow palate it seems but perhaps both. I would have to see a scan or photos.
Thank you for your videos, just one question, have you got any breathing benefits after expanding was done?
Yes, absolutely. Big difference.
@@evanlavizadeh4032
I already installed MARPE device, but due to a lot of infections (swelling around the device), I had to remove it without getting any expansion noticed.
I don't know if it was the doctor's mistake
or my age (26 years)
I'm so confused, should I try with MARPE again or maybe it is better to do SARPE.
@@evanlavizadeh4032
I have watched so many videos for many TH-camrs about this matter, I only enjoyed yours because it was very helpful and insightful.
@@abdulrazzakshebli3174 thank you for the kind words. I'm not sure whose fault it is that you got an infection. Make sure to clean the area very well next time. You can also use chlorohexidine mouthwash to fight infections. But it will stay in your teeth so make sure you get teeth cleaning after.
I think it's okay to try again with MARPE if you like. SARPE is not gonna be better in terms of infection. Hopefully, your provider can replace the expander for free.
I live in nyc and currently saving up for MSE treatment with invasalign. I have multiple reasons of the things you said that are signs of you may need MSE treatment.
I had extractions(premolars) for braces now their is crowding on my bottom teeth and well one wisdom tooth may need to extracted and also I have congestion.
Only problem now is how can find providers in my area for MSE treatment? And possible jaw surgery? As I do have asymmetric teeth and jaw.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Dkf8f3a6P_87KGneFEiFoLrreGb3K6gb6XXpulL4Ju4/edit#gid=0 There's a section on NY :)
Thank you so much
Sir does palate expander widen nose to breathe more oxygen
Yes it does. See my other video on how palatal expansion improves OSA. But not if it is a tooth-borne expander.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 👍👍
awesome! your Invisalign looks great. Does your ortho do the clin check herself? and show you ect. and is experienced on how to expand with Invisalign,in this case expanding your mandible as much as is safe ect? I know it can be hard to find an ortho whois truly experienced with aligners and implementing tads. I am looking for an ortho who is experienced with tads and Invisalign for treatment, any tips on finding one? anything helps! thank you so much for these videos. I am also in Southern California.
Yes my ortho is experienced in all of this stuff. She's amazing. I don't really know how to say whether one provider is better than another. I do believe my provider is one of the best but I don't really know how to judge other providers.
My provider publishes research in this field, which is important to me. So if that's important to you, you could look through the literature and find who's pushing this field?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 you had multiple consultations right? what made you choose your orthodontist ultimately? thanks! so you were looking for an ortho knowledgeable in sleep apnea, that was top on your list. how is Invisalign treatment going post expansion. will you make a video about that? thank you!
Also! I have a question. Does your ortho make you have cavity clearance checks? and dental visits ect. I am aware any decay or big things need to get taken care of of course. But I am talking about very small areas where dentist is recommending fillings. Things that don't really show up on X-rays. I know some offices treat you differently, while others let you take care of those tiny things throughout treatment. I am trying to know ahead of time before I go places
@@maddylam9455 yes! Also, my Ortho works with my surgeon who is under my insurance. And my Ortho is close. And she publishes research in the field which I like. Invisalign is going well :) pretty standard. I will mention it in a video all though there's really not much to mention.
@@maddylam9455 hmm I never thought to ask. That's a great question. I should probably have a check up.
Hi! why did not you use EASE but MSE?
How does MSE help with tooth extractions?
Patients typically need tooth extractions because they're jaws are not wide enough to support all their incoming teeth. so if you expand the jaw, you make more room for the teeth, and are thus able to possibly avoid extractions
Did you break your nose or is your crooked septum due to improper maxillofacial growth as is my case?
Improper growth.
hi what do you do for a living or what is your job today that you can afford enough to have those appliance?
I'm an engineer. Which I'm very thankful pays enough for these treatments. But I was able to get insurance to pay a portion too, but it took a long time. I also got tax deductibles from it, which I made a video on.
Why are you willing to go through double jaw surgery when it seems that your teeth have a correct occlusion?
Because I have sleep apnea due to jaw recession.
Hello, first of all Is need to consult an ortodontist or a maxillo surgeon?
Either as long as they're sufficiently qualified. But if you're not sure, I'd choose surgeon first.
I have TMJ issues and my dentist want me to put on expander like WTF??? asking $6100 for it! I do not have sleep apnea. I had braces 9yrs ago and took 4 healthy teeth, but I do not think my palate is narrow.
Wow that's alot of money. What kind of expander do they want to use?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 they want removable for the upper and they want fixed on the lower. I do not have narrow palate, my smile as as wide as Julia Roberts with no spacing lol. They did not show me what it looks like. But I am declining it. I am sure you having a narrow palate wont cause you to have TMJ issues. It's unrelated. He just wants money.
hi, i'm wondering something; Have you had a sharpening in your cheekbones after maxillary enlargement?
Nope!
@@evanlavizadeh4032 what visual change has occured? Better looking midface?
One question please, if i dont have crossbite and i expand my maxilla, would that make my bite off because you cant expand the mandible (except ur under 12)?
Yes that will limit your expansion. My case is the same. I compensated by expanding orthodontically. You can expand the mandible with MSDO (but it can be risky) and you can expand orthodontically even further with SFOT.
So its better to get this then extract teeth if u have crowded teeth? I heard a lot of negative opinions about teeth extractions (im 16 btw)
Yes, that is 100% correct.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 but what about my lower jaw then ? My upper is not smaller than bottom so after MSE the upper isnt gonna be to big?
@@danielamadalina6266 Yes that is possible, but extractions will not change the size of your jaw. So that will be an issue whether your do MSE before or after extractions. I have the same issue. My upper jaw is now much larger. My ortho is correcting this with braces but it isn't a perfect solution. It may have adverse consequences years down the line, but nobody knows yet.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 oh sorry i meant to say that orthos most of the time recommend extractions for crowded teeth . And bcs a lot of ppl are saying that extractions ruined their faces i looked into other solutions ( like MSE). I dont wanna get the extractions but it seems like MSE wouldnt be the best for me. Because then my lower jaw would be to small and this would cause more problems i think . Sorry for my language, english isnt my first language
@@danielamadalina6266 ohh I see your concern! Hmm that's a tricky one. I would get multiple opinions. And I would specifically see an airway focused orthodontist as well. They particularly know about the damaging effects of extractions. Fortunately, I think you're old enough that extractions wouldn't cause the most damage. But still, it's good to get multiple opinions.
can you expand on why will you undergoo double jaw surgery?
See my video titled how exactly I'm fixing sleep apnea.
Can you get maxillary expansion for the bottom row??
That would be called mandibular expansion, and yes. MSDO is one option.
Did they tell you how long it would take for your gap to close? I thought it was quick?
It's highly dependent on the patient. some patients find that the gap never even appears because the teeth just start to move on their own. But for me.... I think 5-6 months total? I forgot haha
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Great to know. Thanks, Evan.
Why are you getting double jaw surgery if you’re on a MARPE?
Those two things address totally different issues.
my palate is like a wide V and high arched, at its widest its 56mm but narrow in the front. Im dealing with one nostril getting blocked a lot while sleeping. do you think MSE or sarpe would be something for me?
Hmm that's a tough one. I can't answer that one. It might be worth getting a consultation
Very similar to my palate Aegis. It depends on how old you are also. With Sarpe a lot of providors modify it now so its not like traditional sarpe and even better. What country are you from?
@@RB621337 Im swedish, i have decided to go with surgically assisted MARPE+MSDO for lower instead since its newer and bone anchored will yield superior results.
@@hauptmanngilbertoduber9953 Nice, I'm going with surgically assisted Sarpe with TPD and PMD 9mm expansion, should be some sweet nasal breathing benefits!
@@RB621337 Whats TPD and PMD?
Orthodontist told me that I was not a candidate for MSE. I have a deviated septum and enlarged turbinates which contributes to OSA. Also I experience TMJ issues and a large tongue. Should I get a second opinion?
Well why did your ortho say you aren't a candidate for MSE? What was the reasoning?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 she said it wouldn't make much difference. I don't believe her though. I'm already getting a second opinion.
@@w.townsend3477 always good to get a second opinion
@@evanlavizadeh4032 UPDATE: I saw a different ortho yesterday, and he assures me that I would greatly benefit from MSE.
How to measure width of maxilla??detail please???
Sorry I don't know. What I do know is that there are multiple ways. Probably need to ask a doctor.
Can MSE be done as alternative to jaw surgery?
No. They aim to accomplish totally different things.
Why do you need double jaw surgery after marpe? I
my jaws are recessed. So I needed marpe to expand my maxilla (make it wider) and i need DJS to move both jaws forward. My airways are small in multiple dimensions.
ah dam my nose is completely blocked most of the time. but occasionally completely clear. not sure to get mse or sarpe.
Age and sex?
@@evanlavizadeh4032 male 38yo
@@benh4222 SARPE
@@evanlavizadeh4032 my upper jaw is also recessed a lot, i wonder if it effects nasal breathing too
My mouth is small and i had remove two teen and got braces. My smile is very small and it looks sooooo ugly. Is it ok to get expander??
It's worth looking into
Hello what did you do because I'm in the same boat
I need your help. I want to expanded my upper plate naturally plzzz help me😓😓 plzz tell me the quickly answering a method. I need ur help. I do not like to live in this world
If by naturally, you mean without expanders like MARPE or MSE, it's not possible. That's just my opinion. There are doctors who disagree and think it's possible. But there are plenty of proven ways to do it with medical intervention. I did it.
Hey what happened to you? Sry to ask this, just wanna know,Are u okay? Just concerned, is everything okay?
Hello, I'm good! Thank you for asking, my friend. That's very thoughtful of you. I haven't been making as many videos because this darn expander is making me feel so sleepy.
I really needed this treatment but don't have money😔😔
I half of it covered by insurance. But not the braces unfortunately.
I am from india and sadly, our health insurance didn't cover this kind of things😔
@@momo92051 I'm very sorry to hear that :( that is very unfortunate
Yea, it is, but i hope someday i will be able to do it when I've earn enough money🙂
Does anyone know if there’s a doctor in ny who does adult expansion?
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Dkf8f3a6P_87KGneFEiFoLrreGb3K6gb6XXpulL4Ju4/edit?usp=drivesdk
Is there any MSE provider in the UK?
not many but yes docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Dkf8f3a6P_87KGneFEiFoLrreGb3K6gb6XXpulL4Ju4/edit#gid=0
Bro, help me find an MSE dentist please! Is there a list that is reliable.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Dkf8f3a6P_87KGneFEiFoLrreGb3K6gb6XXpulL4Ju4/edit?usp=drivesdk
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Is this list updated? Also, have you met any patient who did MSE in Romania or around that area?
@@thinkgrowhealthy2137 I don't manage the list so idk. And sorry I don't know of anyone in Romania :/
Do you have any plans for any kind of expansion for the mandible?
I don't think the mandible neccesarily expands sideways, but instead it repositions itself more forward. Check out this vid for more info: th-cam.com/video/0I1Jw7Wm9uQ/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=JawHacks
Nope. I would but there's no safe way of doing that.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Ronald Ead on Jawhacks talks about expanding the mandible using a bone graft so that there is room to expand the teeth. Have you considered doing that? I can’t recall the name of the procedure.
@@mariep612 It's SFOT.
@@danielschroder4525 right, is that something you'd consider? If so, I'd love to see that process documented as I'm considering it.
Check out the guy from angola with
"the world's biggest mouth" he has a really wide palate and has all his wisdom teeth,
That's pretty much how everyone should be,
GOALS!!!
Where is that guy? I wanna see his jaw.
@@thinkgrowhealthy2137 look up "world's widest mouth", (Guinness world records),
He can fit a coke can sideways between his cheeks, that's mainly why he won the record,
Anyways like i said earlier, he's got a wide palate, wide dental-arches,
All teeth including wisdom teeth,
(he's got a pretty wide nose too!, not being racist),
He's a black guy from angola, (a country in west africa)
@@thinkgrowhealthy2137 his name is *domingo joaquim chiquinho* had to look up his name, not the easiest to remember!
I need to take mse i have all signs I an from india where should I go to take MSE can you plz plz tell me
I don't know providers in India sorry :/
@@evanlavizadeh4032 oke I'm your country where did you go
@@15.sujalrewadikar48 USA
@@evanlavizadeh4032 i mean where did you went to take mse did you went to an orthodontist or somewhere else
@@15.sujalrewadikar48 yes orthodontist. Dr.Audrey Yoon
I think I suffer from that .. can I communicate with u by any social platform like Instagram ?
Facebook is best bc I don't have Instagram notifications but yeah you can search me on either
@@evanlavizadeh4032 ok I sent u on Facebook
👍🏻
why dont you try a facemask ? and maybe SFOT to get you some forward movment ? you still can do MMA after .
MMA seems too invasive .
Facemask has little to no evidence that it's effective for my age and sex. SFOT only assists dental movement and has no way of opening the airways to resolve sleep apnea. My jaws are very recessed and the only solution to widen my airways with any evidence is MMA. Also, MMA is certainly more invasive than Facemask but that doesn't mean Facemask is safer. I think facemask is just gonna damage my teeth and also limit my MMA potential due to excessive tooth tipping.
@@evanlavizadeh4032 Face Mask applies orthopedic forces to the bone when used with MSE. Won Moon talked about this in his MSE presentation in december 2020. That obviously doesn't mean MMA is not needed.
I've heard facemask had little to no effect after a certain age. But Dr. Ting says he has used it with mse to get a very slight effect.
We don't seem to have a device yet to move the maxilla in that direction
@@SecretMountainTroll Ting also said to one of his patients that i talked to that adult patientsthat ask for Face mask typically don't comply and only wear it for a limited amount of hours, whereas ideally you want orthopedic force applied 24/7. Also the ting protocol is effective to produce a mid-palatal split but bad at disrupting the pterygo maxillary process, so it is logical that it isn't that effective.
@@SecretMountainTroll there was the case of an adult male patient on TGW that was treated with FM at almost 40 years of age that obtained 5 mms of A point movement with the ALT-RAMEC protocol
Hey another question if you don't mind mate, at what point is the invisalign put on during/after MSE? Is it just the first ortho appointment you have once the expansion is finished or is there a small wait while things settle into place?
There's no need to wait once the expansion is finished. You can get invisalign right after you finish expanding :) However, its two appointments for invisalign. The first is to scan the teeth and give a temporary retainer (because the two front teeth will shift quickly). and second is once the Invisalign gets delivered, pick it up and apply the invisalign "buttons"
@@evanlavizadeh4032 hey man, I have narrow palate at 25 yes old. Need to go in for a 3rd round of braces never had a palate expander done prior. Should I ask my orthodontist for mse? I also have somewhat tmj and grinding at night.
And my new ortho also didn’t put on a palate expander. He just put braces on top and 6 weeks later will put on bottom. Let me know! Thanks.
@@todamoon8832 sounds like you should ask about it, yea
@@evanlavizadeh4032 thanks appreciate it!