This video documents my rollercoaster ride of a first week with MSE (Maxillary Skeletal Expander). Basically it was painful up until the point that the suture split. Then the pain went away.
And thank you for the kind words. It makes me very happy to know that so many people have benefited from everything I have gone through these past several years.
Doing MSE currently, 42 yr old female. For anyone considering, not painful in my experience, no drilling to start just the expander. I split in one week, 4 turns a day. I actually felt my skull absorbing the tension so easily that I thought the device was broken. Variety of experiences to be had I suppose.
I am a 41 yr old female and getting my MSE next week. Sounds like there can be a big difference in experience between male and female. Hoping I am lucky like you.
my understanding is men tend to need the puncture, not so much women. im 43, doing mse, finally split after 32 days of single turns. my experience has been similar to his.
The doctor recommended avoiding taking anti-inflammatory medications. (inflammation in these cases, actually assists in the MSE therapy. Inflammation works to help trigger the bone cells (osteoclasts/osteoblasts) in suture disruption/formation. You mention taking a medication which causes vasoconstriction. But you taking vasoconstrictors, it’s actually like taking an anti-inflammatory drug. You are lessening the blood flow to the area. Which is exactly what anti inflammatory drugs will do as well. Also, you want to be careful when breathing in pure oxygen. Pure oxygen can throw off the acid base balance in your blood relatively quickly. (This is the exact reason why “breathing into a paper bag” when hyperventilating works. It allows you to breathe back in CO2, elevating the CO2 levels in blood. Which also directly affects blood acid : base ratio.
Interesting and informative comment thanks! I'm looking into starting oxygen therapy for my chronic migraines since meds don't cut it for me (Tried too much and side effects are never worth).
I’m only about 4 years late to this video and your channel. As soon as I saw one of your videos I had to subscribe. I had to dig .. A LOT … to find someone (YOU) talking about MSE pain (which I am currently experiencing) AND MSE, in general, in adults. Crazy that you mention at the end of your video that you googled and then ended up making this video - it DEFINITELY HELPS! Mine has literally been installed today, less than 12 hours ago, and I cried for a good hour once the anaesthetic wore off. I started thinking I made a mistake, your channel, these videos are encouraging. Some of the comments on here also helped, as I’m older than this guy here (31 Female) so pinch of salt and all that. Finally to say, I was half heartedly planning on documenting my journey to Make some BS short form content but after this (and my own struggle to find info) I’m very inspired to document in depth. I hope it takes and THANK YOU!
I love our smart guy of the orthotropics world. It's great to see great documentation on this! Usually it's a desert out there for mse! You've really hot the mark! Thanks mate 😊😂👍
Man I can't thank you enough. I had a immense pain today after turning mse 5 times, I was just crying for 2-3 hours straight and I didn't wanted to disturb my doctor since it's sunday. Also wanted to know if this much intense pain was abnormal then immediately searched for it and came across this video of urs. Literally brother tyssssssm ❤❤❤. Just an hour later I heard a crack sound and got a small crack between my front teeth but the pain was still a late for me to handle Immediately called my dr. She prescribed tramadol and adviced liquid diet ,also scolded me for not calling earlier 😜. Anyways KUDOS TO YOU MAN, THANKS A LOT 🌹❤
Everything he said here is true. Haven't gotten a split yet, but I had an MSE appliance installed with two expanders and it was pretty insane. three cortico punctures and 6 screws. Could literally hear my bones cracking as they put the 17mm screws in. When the novacaine wore off it was wild, much sooner than I was expecting too. I have to turn both expanders and I've been doing about 3-4 turns a day. Headaches are real, but luckily I haven't been turning as many times as he did.
@@healthychelsea7919 don’t worry about the pain, the reason I was whining in this comment was cause I had just gotten it installed. The pain is gone within like 4 hours, the main thing u gotta do tho is have painkillers on standby for right after it gets installed. I didn’t, so I had to deal with the full brunt of it for like 2 hours
@@ew5770 I have had absolutely wild results, about 7 mm expanded so far, but I’ve got nearly equivalent expansion at the top of my maxilla that I’ve gotten at the bottom, which I’ve never seen before in any other appliance
hey ronald , you seem to have a pretty good knowledge of these things so i have a question . How long does the sutures needs to remain separated for the bone depositing process to start. And how long it takes to become permanent ? specifically maxilla Thanks
For the promotion of inflammation part of the video - you are correct, but think also about building muscle and tissue when you are working out. A pro-inflammatory response is what builds muscle and drives muscle-protein synthesis post-workout, when muscle fibers are broken down so they can be rebuild. This is a good analogy for what is happening when using MSE, and indeed anything that will blunt inflammation is counter-intuitive. Just speculating here, but maybe a pro-inflammatory diet (more so a caloric surplus) could be beneficial towards a successful MSE procedure - not just from a 'get all your minerals and vitamins' aspect, but also from a pro-inflammatory perspective.
Hi how are you So I have a question So my question is so on the first 3 days did you molars hurt because I put mse expeders on Thursday so my molars is hurting a lot i hope that's normal and I am having pressure but the pressure go out in 5 minutes after each turn
I imagine that the dental implant is perfectly OK for MSE treatment. MSE doesn't move teeth through the alveolar bone. It moves skeletal bone, and teeth just go along for the ride. You should be OK.
Wow, bro, just had mine put in, and they used EIGHT screws, lol. I suppose that'll help with an assured split though, even though I didn't get the puncturing.
Same @NJShadow. I got 8 screws too with no corticopuncture. Instead, I was advised to swipe a credit card in between my front teeth to speed up the initial sutural split.
Currently the plan is to complete MSE treatment and see how I feel. But I am keeping MMS (double jaw surgery) on the backburner as a potential last resort for achieving my goal of sufficient oral volume.
@@JawHacks thanks for the reply. I believe you will reach sufficient oral volume without surgery and with mewing. I wonder how effective mewing is after jaw surgery, as your maxilla would be held back by the screws.
@@Jamesk11178 Yes. I've been eating just fine since then (I only had trouble eating the first week- and this week but that's only because I got braces put in). If you don't mind my asking, do you have or are considering getting an mse?
Caroline B Just considering. It looks painful lol but worth it I can see. Glad you’re adjusting to it finally bro. I was worried that if I got it I’d just be drinking shakes forever lol
@@Jamesk11178 I had major oral surgery along with my mse getting installed (wisdom teeth along with a lot of other stuff), and even then I was back to eating normal food in a week or two. The hardest part for me was just figuring out how to eat because even though we don't realize it, we depend on the roof of our mouth a lot when it comes to eating. It was definitely awkward at first haha. You just learn to eat on the side of your mouth lol
he has a website with everything documented... There is definitely a difference, even his eyes look better after. Highly considering this thing. I use palatal expanders but broke my last one.
I did the MSE 1h30mins ago, the anaesthetic is wearing off and I am holding my head in pain the exact same way as you. Holy shit. I took in 800 mg of ibuprofen with tons of water.
@@howdidigethere41 not at all, I'm doing it slowly and got a split in about 10 days. I dont know when exactly because I didnt feel it, and only after I went back for a checkup with my doctor that i knew. Its painless as long as you do punctures.
@@howdidigethere41 oh yeah, pain wears off in like a week or two completely. Split also happens in about a week or two but you barely notice it happened.
@@habababa1312 turned out great, worked exactly as anticipated, improved nose breathing, wider palate. The bottom arch is a bit of a problem, as well as my bite. But imo it’s all worth it.
So the skull gap it won't close because if it closes again you need to start the procedure all over again the only gap that will be close is the one in you teeth that gap you close with metal braces or Invisaligns
@@weltonleal8301 Yes it does lol. After the MSE procedure your maxilla starts healing and the split will be filled with bone. Why are you spreading misinformation?
Fuck that shit. I'm getting the homeoblock. Looks like a much easier and more natural way of widening your maxilla. I don't believe it's just tooth borne. James Nestor did get CTs of his skull and it showed an increase in the bone volume in his mouth + his nose cavity became larger allowing him to breathe easier through the nose. Also the way that you sound when talking and breathing do not seem healthy to me.
What do you expect you’re having your bones expanded you gonna expect you to be comfortable wait for the braces that’s going to get hurt more stop your whining suck it up and your teeth caramelized?
I must say you are documenting the hell out of this process. Well done.
seriously
Thanks guys. I appreciate your support.
Thanks for being a pioneer on this stuff so that we can learn from your experiences, Ronald.
And thank you for the kind words. It makes me very happy to know that so many people have benefited from everything I have gone through these past several years.
Doing MSE currently, 42 yr old female. For anyone considering, not painful in my experience, no drilling to start just the expander. I split in one week, 4 turns a day. I actually felt my skull absorbing the tension so easily that I thought the device was broken. Variety of experiences to be had I suppose.
so not as painful youre suggesting?
I am a 41 yr old female and getting my MSE next week. Sounds like there can be a big difference in experience between male and female. Hoping I am lucky like you.
my understanding is men tend to need the puncture, not so much women. im 43, doing mse, finally split after 32 days of single turns. my experience has been similar to his.
Thank you for all your time and effort in documenting your experience (and the experience of others) on your channel! 🙏
Yo that was an epic story I appreciate you so much for laying down the guidelines for us
Love it….”Wisdom is the ability to sacrifice short term happiness for long-term happiness”
The doctor recommended avoiding taking anti-inflammatory medications.
(inflammation in these cases, actually assists in the MSE therapy. Inflammation works to help trigger the bone cells (osteoclasts/osteoblasts) in suture disruption/formation.
You mention taking a medication which causes vasoconstriction.
But you taking vasoconstrictors, it’s actually like taking an anti-inflammatory drug.
You are lessening the blood flow to the area. Which is exactly what anti inflammatory drugs will do as well.
Also, you want to be careful when breathing in pure oxygen. Pure oxygen can throw off the acid base balance in your blood relatively quickly.
(This is the exact reason why “breathing into a paper bag” when hyperventilating works. It allows you to breathe back in CO2, elevating the CO2 levels in blood. Which also directly affects blood acid : base ratio.
Interesting and informative comment thanks! I'm looking into starting oxygen therapy for my chronic migraines since meds don't cut it for me (Tried too much and side effects are never worth).
I’m only about 4 years late to this video and your channel. As soon as I saw one of your videos I had to subscribe.
I had to dig .. A LOT … to find someone (YOU) talking about MSE pain (which I am currently experiencing) AND MSE, in general, in adults.
Crazy that you mention at the end of your video that you googled and then ended up making this video - it DEFINITELY HELPS!
Mine has literally been installed today, less than 12 hours ago, and I cried for a good hour once the anaesthetic wore off. I started thinking I made a mistake, your channel, these videos are encouraging.
Some of the comments on here also helped, as I’m older than this guy here (31 Female) so pinch of salt and all that.
Finally to say, I was half heartedly planning on documenting my journey to
Make some BS short form content but after this (and my own struggle to find info) I’m very inspired to document in depth.
I hope it takes and THANK
YOU!
You're a god for uploading this video paving the way for us man, it helps during this hard phase
Good luck, it will pass. Be strong. You're sacrificing some present happiness for more future happiness.
The content u r providing is gem I still regret why I don't get ur channel recomdation about 2 3 yrs ago
I love our smart guy of the orthotropics world. It's great to see great documentation on this! Usually it's a desert out there for mse! You've really hot the mark! Thanks mate 😊😂👍
Incredible video
thank you
Man I can't thank you enough.
I had a immense pain today after turning mse 5 times, I was just crying for 2-3 hours straight and I didn't wanted to disturb my doctor since it's sunday.
Also wanted to know if this much intense pain was abnormal then immediately searched for it and came across this video of urs. Literally brother tyssssssm ❤❤❤.
Just an hour later I heard a crack sound and got a small crack between my front teeth but the pain was still a late for me to handle
Immediately called my dr. She prescribed tramadol and adviced liquid diet ,also scolded me for not calling earlier 😜.
Anyways KUDOS TO YOU MAN, THANKS A LOT 🌹❤
Everything he said here is true. Haven't gotten a split yet, but I had an MSE appliance installed with two expanders and it was pretty insane. three cortico punctures and 6 screws. Could literally hear my bones cracking as they put the 17mm screws in. When the novacaine wore off it was wild, much sooner than I was expecting too. I have to turn both expanders and I've been doing about 3-4 turns a day. Headaches are real, but luckily I haven't been turning as many times as he did.
any updates?
i was counting on pain kilers but it sounds like they wont help....its making me not want to do MSE
@@healthychelsea7919 don’t worry about the pain, the reason I was whining in this comment was cause I had just gotten it installed. The pain is gone within like 4 hours, the main thing u gotta do tho is have painkillers on standby for right after it gets installed. I didn’t, so I had to deal with the full brunt of it for like 2 hours
@@ew5770 I have had absolutely wild results, about 7 mm expanded so far, but I’ve got nearly equivalent expansion at the top of my maxilla that I’ve gotten at the bottom, which I’ve never seen before in any other appliance
Thanks for the videos. Did you have a unilateral or bilateral posterior crossbite before MSE?
hey ronald , you seem to have a pretty good knowledge of these things so i have a question . How long does the sutures needs to remain separated for the bone depositing process to start. And how long it takes to become permanent ? specifically maxilla
Thanks
In my experience, the mse has to stay on for 9-12 months after installation for the bone to fuse in it's new placement.
@@carolineb829 How long does it take to split the maxilla? As in, how many months of turning?
For the promotion of inflammation part of the video - you are correct, but think also about building muscle and tissue when you are working out. A pro-inflammatory response is what builds muscle and drives muscle-protein synthesis post-workout, when muscle fibers are broken down so they can be rebuild.
This is a good analogy for what is happening when using MSE, and indeed anything that will blunt inflammation is counter-intuitive.
Just speculating here, but maybe a pro-inflammatory diet (more so a caloric surplus) could be beneficial towards a successful MSE procedure - not just from a 'get all your minerals and vitamins' aspect, but also from a pro-inflammatory perspective.
How much did this cost?
Hey Ronald, question:
If I have TMJ would doing the MSE procedure make it better or worse?
Better
I'm going to attempt to do what you are doing.
Nice video ! Yeah sounds painful
Thanks Astro Sky, as always I appreciate you popping into my channel. I've got your back man.
heyyyy
Hi how are you
So I have a question
So my question is so on the first 3 days did you molars hurt because I put mse expeders on Thursday so my molars is hurting a lot i hope that's normal and I am having pressure but the pressure go out in 5 minutes after each turn
Do you just get width expansion or do you get depth expansion too?
How did it change your facial features?
Did you have MSE before or after invisalign?
How old are you buddy? I'm older, not sure if this will work.
If you have a dental implant “front incisors” could you expand your palate with out messing it up?
Well tooth #7 should I say
I imagine that the dental implant is perfectly OK for MSE treatment. MSE doesn't move teeth through the alveolar bone. It moves skeletal bone, and teeth just go along for the ride. You should be OK.
I asked Newaz this the other day and he said it should mostly be fine
how old are you? and why you used MSE?
Were you given the oxygen tank from the hospital?
Wow, bro, just had mine put in, and they used EIGHT screws, lol. I suppose that'll help with an assured split though, even though I didn't get the puncturing.
Same @NJShadow. I got 8 screws too with no corticopuncture.
Instead, I was advised to swipe a credit card in between my front teeth to speed up the initial sutural split.
Do you plan on having jaw surgery after mse?
Currently the plan is to complete MSE treatment and see how I feel. But I am keeping MMS (double jaw surgery) on the backburner as a potential last resort for achieving my goal of sufficient oral volume.
@@JawHacks thanks for the reply. I believe you will reach sufficient oral volume without surgery and with mewing. I wonder how effective mewing is after jaw surgery, as your maxilla would be held back by the screws.
Does anyone have any advice for eating? I got mine put in today and I'm having trouble eating.
Are you still able to chew even after the skull is basically split?
@@Jamesk11178 Yes. I've been eating just fine since then (I only had trouble eating the first week- and this week but that's only because I got braces put in). If you don't mind my asking, do you have or are considering getting an mse?
Caroline B Just considering. It looks painful lol but worth it I can see. Glad you’re adjusting to it finally bro. I was worried that if I got it I’d just be drinking shakes forever lol
@@Jamesk11178 I had major oral surgery along with my mse getting installed (wisdom teeth along with a lot of other stuff), and even then I was back to eating normal food in a week or two. The hardest part for me was just figuring out how to eat because even though we don't realize it, we depend on the roof of our mouth a lot when it comes to eating. It was definitely awkward at first haha. You just learn to eat on the side of your mouth lol
Caroline B That’s great! So glad you’re feeling better.
The TB12!
Real recognize real!
@@JawHacks haha, nice.
Did u finally do a surgery or not
Shouldn't be there blood like after tooth removal after such manipulations?
I wish you would show before and after photos
he has a website with everything documented... There is definitely a difference, even his eyes look better after. Highly considering this thing. I use palatal expanders but broke my last one.
vito corleone I would do this but I don’t know how to get one or what the price is etc
vito corleone is it worth investing in a palate expander? I really am considering getting on to expand my palate
@@andrewgarfield9898 you can install it yourself
I did the MSE 1h30mins ago, the anaesthetic is wearing off and I am holding my head in pain the exact same way as you. Holy shit. I took in 800 mg of ibuprofen with tons of water.
How did it turn out for you? Did it take long to split and for some relief of the pain?
@@howdidigethere41 not at all, I'm doing it slowly and got a split in about 10 days. I dont know when exactly because I didnt feel it, and only after I went back for a checkup with my doctor that i knew. Its painless as long as you do punctures.
How did it turn out?
@@howdidigethere41 oh yeah, pain wears off in like a week or two completely. Split also happens in about a week or two but you barely notice it happened.
@@habababa1312 turned out great, worked exactly as anticipated, improved nose breathing, wider palate. The bottom arch is a bit of a problem, as well as my bite. But imo it’s all worth it.
The pain is fucking real. AHHHHH!
What did you eat?/Diet with it in?
I get an mse tomorrow :( I’m nervous 😬/scaredddd
good luck, hang in there. you'll get through it.
What happened??
What about gag reflx?
You didnt have?
Weed & Codeine should do the trick.
It might affect the healing process
Why are u doing this to yourself
What about a 14 year old.
So does ur skull gap close ?
So the skull gap it won't close because if it closes again you need to start the procedure all over again the only gap that will be close is the one in you teeth that gap you close with metal braces or Invisaligns
@@weltonleal8301 I mean is there bone growing in the gap
@@Chris-lq8zk no it has not
@@weltonleal8301 Yes it does lol. After the MSE procedure your maxilla starts healing and the split will be filled with bone. Why are you spreading misinformation?
@@Michael-xm3gq Sorry i really don't know much about it i was just saying lol. You know more than me.
Fuck that shit. I'm getting the homeoblock. Looks like a much easier and more natural way of widening your maxilla. I don't believe it's just tooth borne. James Nestor did get CTs of his skull and it showed an increase in the bone volume in his mouth + his nose cavity became larger allowing him to breathe easier through the nose.
Also the way that you sound when talking and breathing do not seem healthy to me.
how’d it go?
Good luck started with homeo now scheduled for mse way more effective expander
What do you expect you’re having your bones expanded you gonna expect you to be comfortable wait for the braces that’s going to get hurt more stop your whining suck it up and your teeth caramelized?