I like this dark-Spidey story a lot, feels organic and not overly edgy. Also, the fact that Peter programmed the same gesture+pressure tech from his web shooters to make literal "finger guns" is the most accurate thing that an unethical Peter Parker would implement into his suit. That right there was *chef's kiss*
@@12MRJERSEY I prefer this rendition. They're not bulky and he does a literal finger gun gesture; which feels much more in line with Peter's tech and personality.
This dark-hero Spiderman is what I hoped Ben Reilly would become. "Scarlet Spider isn't just 'scarlet' because of a choice in fabric dye." But right now, he's just straight-up evil.
@@BaconNuke That's not really a feat worth mentioning. Alfred beat up Superman one time, so do you think Alfred is stronger than Superman? No he isn't. There have been many instances in fiction where the obviously weaker character gets some kind of anger amp (combined with another amp too probably) and gets the upper hand on the obviously stronger opponent that just happens to be caught off guard by their weaker opponent's sudden surge in ferocity.
I think this one was one of the only edgy "Spider that kills" story lines I actually was semi-okay with. He more just hardened in this world, didn't go straight out evil or crazy, just more intense and... proactive in problem solving.
Honestly, it's more like Spider-man as a spy or solider in the real world. Most of the time, soldiers don't get the "non-lethal" option in a fire fight. That's a luxury for superhumans.
@@certifiednobody true, after all spider-man noir did come back a while after Spider-Geddon(where he “supposedly” died) But the reason he came back was because of his spider-god, making his bite more mystical than scientific. Unfortunately, Assassin Spidey has origins similar to his 616 counterpart(prior to the divergence) so no spider-god for him
@@creativestudios5562 there’s like 2 or 3 different Spider-Man Unlimited variants in these comics, so I guess sometimes the multiverse just makes a few mirrors of the original
My favorite thing about this storyline is that the transition is gradual and in-character. It's not like he accidentally kills someone and then goes into an edgy streak where now he's just okay with killing because he's done it before. He's torn with grief over the accidental killing, and still remains resolved not to let it happen again. Even in self defense, he continues to enforce his no-kill policy on himself. It's only when he's forced to take more lives that his killing inhibitions wear off, and yet still he doesn't suddenly become some edgy psycho murderer, he's still trying to do the right thing, just with killing the bad guys being a thing he's not afraid to do anymore. It's a refreshing change of pace from the usually black and white views comics tend to have on the topic. Comics about characters who refuse to kill tend to require the character to become edgy and evil to start killing. This comic takes a step back and says "Spider-Man Peter Parker doesn't need to become an edgy bad guy to kill, he just has to become more morally grey." and as such it feels like the most genuine version of the character who kills. He hasn't become an entirely different person, he's just changed his mind about some things.
@@KiraSlith It's not about subversion, it's about realism. The entire point I was making was in regards to the more realistic, morally grey tone the story has in contrast to the more black and white messaging of other similar stories.
@@Crow_Rising It's not even remotely "realistic". People don't just drop their moral convictions with just a few unwitting violations, not even a constant stream of violations will do that. If that were the case, the political left IRL would've collaped after they compared black people to fictional monkeys for the 3rd time back in 2018 (Seriously, even the thought to compare the two is plainly racist). Convictions are a hell of a lot harder to shake than that, in a Super's case it'd take a personal apocalypse (Like say, your city being turned into a nuclear crater) to overturn them otherwise they would've folded far earlier. Parker in particular has been through far worse in all his iterations.
@@KiraSlith He didn't drop his moral convictions. He just became more flexible with his methods. The point OP seems to be making isn't so much about realism, because sometimes realism is worse than believability. Just because people can violate their self-professed morals and attempt to uphold them over and over (badly) doesn't mean it makes for good entertainment. Even IRL, that sort of thing is the source of endless jokes at the expense of the wannabe moralists. As for the political examples, collective hypocrisy =/= individual hypocrisy. Collective hypocrisy doesn't really exist unless the entire collective agrees on something (meaning never). Groups don't have shared, consistent morals like individuals, they have shared, sometimes consistent interests. How could any sane person possibly accept an _individual,_ for example, who compares a group of people to apes unironically and repeatedly with their own mouth while _simultaneously_ professing to be anti-racist or whatever. Any person doing that by themselves would be seen (rightly) as worse than someone who just admitted they were racist. Hell, people who uphold a standard in the present that they didn't in the past, will still have their past actions judged and get their careers ruined in most places if they get enough attention. The problem with most fictional pop-culture heroes is that when they don't seek 'redemption' for wrongs they think they did, they just go full psycho, like there's an alter-ego that comes out or something (even when there isn't). People usually have end goals and instrumental goals in service of the former. Spidey wants to make the world a safer place and protect the innocent, or something to that effect, are his primary goals. Redeeming and rehabilitating criminals, and using the minimum amount of force possible to detain them, are his secondary goals. Lots of (though not all) depictions of him that abandon his secondary goals are treated as having abandoned his primary goals as well. Which is fine sometimes for a good story, but a little variety is nice. You don't even need any kind of (immediate) personal trauma to trigger this. Sometimes people just decide to be more ruthless without anything bad happening to them or because of them, like Rorschach from Watchmen snapping twice, both times after strangers were murdered. His motivations still make enough sense that it doesn't mess with his entertainment value. Granted, that was sort of tied to his own childhood trauma. That's my ramble quota filled for today.
@@KiraSlith How hard convictions are to shake depends on a number of factors, it's not simply a matter of magnitude, but rather more importantly a matter of context. Humans are inconsistent creatures like that. The same person who's more than willing to fight a snake might be too terrified to deal with a spider. In particular, taking a life is a very different thing from failing to save one. Parker may have been through "worse", but that doesn't mean that he won't be impacted more severely by being the one directly responsible for the death. It's specifically the breaking of his most important rule, the very thing that mentally holds him together. The very fact that he is Peter Parker and is normally so adamantly against killing is what makes the transition here feel more real and genuine. It's not a switch that gets flipped, but rather a transition that he has to undergo mentally, coming to grips with a change in mindset that wears away at his strongest inhibition.
Refreshing how when a character breaks their “No killing” motto instead of becoming a bloodthirsty nutcase, they become a peace keeper. Controlling their abilities and not killing when it isn’t necessary
@@LukeAtmey-s2vCare to explain why? Logically speaking, it's unrealistic for someone to suddenly become a "bloodthirsty nutcase" after breaking a no-kill rule.
Ironically the one reason spider man couldn’t lift Thors hammer in 616 was because he wouldn’t kill for the greater good. Wonder if this spider man could lift it
I appreciate that this didn’t just turn into another “Superhero kills the Marvel Universe” situation It felt a bit more organic, with Peter still being Peter, doing what he thinks is the right thing to do, but with the removal of the no-kill rule.
Spiderman: Hey Deadpool, I was hired to kill some Russian assassin. You in? Deadpool: .....you have no idea how long I have waited for you to ask me that! HELL YEAH I'M IN!
It’s moment like this reminds me of how insanely strong Spiderman is. My man is literally one step away from being an avenger level threat with his mind and strength
He already is in here; His spider sense is so well trained that it basically becomes a limited future sight. He knows danger is coming for him hours before it happens, and where it's going to come from.
This was actually WAAAAY better then I thoight by just reading the title. Most of these "Samarian hero starts killing" is just so bad and edgy and over done a million times you get sick of it but this was actually well made and really unique. I could ACTUALLY see this working as a hero of his own y'know?
Ikr. Finally not another "Oh, I got a taste of blood, and I want more, guilty or not, I don't care!" Here, I feel like we got a perfect Spiderman, he'll try his best to be non-lethal, but he also won't pussyfoot around if the situation calls for quick and swift elimination, like the guy at 4:01. Wanted to hit Spidey with "I counter your webs lol", and Peter just showed him that he can adapt and evolve too xD
There's something utterly horrifying about the spider picking YOUR limbs off, and they usually do a good job of showcasing how scary spiderman actually is when he goes off the rails
This by far one of my favorite iterations of Spider-Man. He still has his quips and his moral ethics, but he’s much more refined as both alter ego and person
No. More like. Spiderman is broken and rebuilds himself into a killer. He can only be this by giving up his life and everyone he cares about. Otherwise, he would eventually get everyone killed.
@@popeye697 you know if you subtract the killer part it's every Spider-Man story ever, Spider-Man is broken, must give up everything in order to save everyone.
@@popeye697 What do you mean "giving up everyone he cares about"? He sends checks to Aunt May and wrote a letter to MJ. Dude still gives a damn, he's just a soldier now.
@@leminer4049 if I were Spidey I wouldn't kill people, I'd just turn JJJ into a superman and have his glorious moustached face be the literal shield of Earth
Wow I totally love this story. The big issue with the whole "killing is bad" is that it completely contradicts our whole culture of calling soldiers heroes. I feel like this is a much more mature take on it. What would happen if an honorable soldier got super powers? Would he stop killing? Probably not, but it would give him the power to fight enemies that are too dangerous to take on before.
The thing is that if you have the power to end a fight non-lethally and you take the easy way out. Was it the right call? If a kid attacked you during a tantrum the easiest way to end the tantrum is to beat the hell out of them till they can no longer tantrum. But its clearly not the right answer.
@@youtubestudiosucks978 after blackest night the no killing rule got removed, dunnoh if it was ever replaced again. And as Green Lantern evil Batman has show, you can break the rule, it just requires great willpower
I love these stories where writers remove the "limiters" off Peter. His super-strength is on par with big hitters like The Thing, Thor and maybe even Colossus. The fact he is _always_ holding back to _not_ kill people is remarkable.
So you're telling me if Spiderman has become a train killing machine. He gets to be happy while our Spiderman, who has a kindness cant catch a break to the writers?
Pretty much It's as though Marvel writers have only one storyline for Pete: Make him suffer in every conceivable way Are we sure Marvel isn't sponsored by Osborn?
I mean, it's because he's cut himself off. Is it really that happy that he's separated himself from everyone he used to care about? What happens when the jobs slow down?
I just had a cool idea. What if Peter trained this universe's Miles Morales to be a covert assassin as well? A cloaking stealth Spider-Man would be awesome!
I think it might make more sense if this Peter does the reverse, so there is a "clean" Spider-Man to be a super-hero in the light, while he works in the shadows
That would be a real sight to behold, and I like the idea that he would also take inspiration from his uncle. Especially if it's a reformed version, handing off the suit and tech for miles to make a spider/prowler hybrid would be great. Something mostly black with red and purple highlights.
The only time where writers were like "Lets make spidermans an actual hero instead of a teenage hero and torturing him". Ironically this must be the only time where spiderman doesn't hold back and everything goes well for him.
Not many know that Spider-man is nearly always holding back. That's why he's one of the most fierce Marvel heroes. He even caught Bucky's metal punch like a soft ball which could send Captain America flying even after blocking with his shield. If you think about it, it's why Spidey can crack corny jokes while in any situation. He's THAT calm and confident.
He is way beyond human but more super humans are above him. His classified as Class 10, meaning he can comfortably lift 10 tons. Able to lift higher only with strain and great effort. Someone like She-Hulk was at class 50 for decades meaning she could casually and comfortably lift 50 tons. Then her limit went to 75. Spider-Man is still class 10.
@@TheLastSane1 That's cool. I wasn't saying Spider-man is THE best, I was saying how he's ONE OF the best with an explanation of how he's so easily underestimated.
@@TheLastSane1 The crazy thing is that he's even that high, he's primarily an agility style hero with some tech use baked in, so super strength is technically part of the outlier powers of his kit. He's got mad utility.
You know it is kinda crazy how strong spider would be with some training he's already super strong and flexible so if he became a marital arts master combined with spider sense he would be unbeatable
Shang-Chi and Madame Webb already trained hin Spider-fu uses Spider-Man physical traits to its fullest; He can even anticipate attacks from someone who has future sight. Way of the Spider has Peter fully rely on his Spider sense. Psylocke tried reading Peter's mind to anticipate his moves; But even with a telepath his movement is unpredictable.
Spidey developed the Way of the Spider martial art, which made his moves unpredictable even to mind-readers, and upped his Spider-Sense to the point of pretty much precognition Of course that got reset tho
This really felt like something Spider-Man would do. Not to mention his intelligence and gadget making. He’d have to be one the best hero’s undoubtedly.
Assassin Spidey has one of my favorite interactions in Spider-Verse "Why do your web-shooters fire bullets?" "I think a better question is...why don't yours?"
One of my favorite Spiderman stories, he develops his potential and unlike other stories he didn't turn into a murderer for abandoning his no kill rule.
I actually love this. Every story where a hero kills they do a complete 180 personality wise and become this massive threat to the world. It always felt to me like the author's giving a middle finger to all the people who make the very reasonable point that if super villains are just going to walk out of jail in a month or two, why not just kill them and prevent hundreds or thousands of deaths? Especially villains like the Joker, who would realistically be hunted down and killed by the government anyway.
Because then escaping is not realistic. Superheroes could build super-prisons and be done with that. Good luck for Joker to escaping from another dimension or a prison 10 trillion light years from Earth. People seem to forget that supervillains re-appear/escape simply because authors had success with them and want to milk them more for cash. If all superheroes were to kill, authors would just introduce more and more one-off villains instead. It would not change the fundamental problem with these kind of stories. Permanent solution in superhero genre is de-facto unachievable since people crave struggle and controversy. If all people wanted to read in comics were happy endings and slice of life stories, yes, eventually hero’s win and world peace would be more common. But people read comics because they want one character to smash another, more often than not. Readers don’t WANT peace and meaningful conclusion. They want entertainment and action/high stakes every Tuesday/gore etc.
@@kingol4801 Have they ever done a story of The Joker being tossed into the Phantom Zone? Also technically, if this was the real world they could build an underwater prison facility, but since this is a comic book that is hardly a deterrent.
@@Reddotzebra They did! It wasn't the focus of the story per-sey, though: Joker didn't actually escape on his own merit, Superman was convinced to release him to Arkham by Batman after Amanda Wallers played on his sense of morality to manipulate him. It's been DC canon for a while that the villains rarely actually *escape*, and the times they do the ones we see, with for example Batman or Superman coming to stop them - after all, why wouldn't they call the JLA if Joker just broke out When villains conveniently escape off camera and the JLA only learns after the fact, what's REALLY happening is they did some Suicide Squad work and were let out in secret.
The biggest flaw of spiderverse was how it killed spider people for the dumbest reasons especially the ones that deserved to have comic runs (this one and noir spiderman).
I've never read the Doc Oc story... but I read about it, and the amount of...dare we call it HUMILITY that Octavius develops in those few moments... "He was always holding back when he fought us... ALWAYS..."
It infuriated me, and it made no sense. He has perfect precognition, he could see literally everything that could possibly happen. SpiderVerse was retarded anyway, but that was the worst part. He at least came back to life and was seen in one of the web worriors issues though.
Absolutely love these! If you haven't already, you should talk about the war of jokes and riddles and about how Batman almost broke his rule before a certain person stopped him 😁
Assassin Spider is of my favorite variant; gritty, deadly, cold and isnt afraid to hold back. Combining his spidy combat skills but also switches his web to bullets. But thats just me of course.
@@lightborn9071This is surprisingly tame for a "no-kill rule being taken off" story. Spider-Man doesn't go "off rails". He's not out killing innocents, or doing shit like what Injustice Superman would do. He's still got his morals. If _this_ is off the rails to you, then you're gonna _absolutely despise_ Deadpool.
A hero that isnt afraid to kill is an anti-hero. Per definition anti-heroes have to kill, and if they dont kill their enemies then their not anti-heroes.
There is also the one where Spider-Man snaps as his aunt gets shot by a hitman sent by Kingpin. This because he had revealed his own identiy to the world earlier. And then he goes on a hunt to find he hitman as well as figuring out who sent him. Then one of the greatest beatdowns ensues where he breaks into a high security prison, and proceeds to beat the ever living shit out of Kingpin. Not as Spider-Man, but as Peter Parker. Leaving Kingpins life hanging on a thread (no pun intended) and letting Kingpin know that as soon as he gets a notification that his aunt is dead. He will kill him.
I'm guessing the russian responsible for designing Crimson Dynamo's armor with power cables that stick out from his back like butterfly wings was quickly promoted to the gulag.
The dude literally basically has precognition and complete total awareness of his environment in like a very ridiculously wide range around him and spider webs on depending on the version he might even have a whole shit ton of different types even all made from actual spider silk whether it's natural or artificial which is ridiculously strong even if villains tend to break out of it pretty easy, that's more so just a testament to the fact that they tend to have super strength strong enough to break even steel wires which spidersilk at the thickness of spider webs would at least be tantamount to. Beyond all that he can also stick to walls which also is really more so he can stick to anything and there's a lot more interesting ways that someone could use this lifesafer example sticking his feet to someone's chest and sticking his hand for their head and then using his ridiculous super strength to literally rip their spine from their body
I agree with a lot of the comments, this a very in-character and non-edgy way to make Spider-Man kill. One thing that always icks me about Spider-Man killing is when he kills anyone with no exceptions, but in this story he goes after corrupt officials, not going on the street and beating someone to death because they jay-walked. Also another superhero trope I hate is one kill is enough to make a character spiral into more killing. It wouldn't be hard at all to kill someone like Joker and stop there, if there's someone that dangerous then they need to get the death penalty, anyone else can just go to prison.
@@connorscanlan2167 Yeah, that didnt go over my head. Your example is just not relevant. Explain to me what you think "black ops" are? A secret way for the goverment to kill people without reprecussions?
I've always had this feeling of something's missing with Spidey... And as in this version of Spiderman, it's training, gruel and brutal training that hones his superhuman agility, strength, reflexes and senses to it's maximum potential. Like training his spider sense to have true precognitive function, detecting danger even before anything happened. Wolverine is basically a regular man with regular beast-like senses with super regeneration. Combat ability wise, he should not be able to rival Spiderman in terms of strength, speed and reaction time but he did... and he's able to because of the inhuman training he went through thanks to his super regeneration. If Spidey gets the training that suits him the best, a finger flick could put Wolverine at bay in a fight. In conclusion, the cannon Spidey is the one that held back almost all of his potential combat prowess, simply with no specialized training whatsoever and his policy of no killing.
Hot Take: remember that moment in No Way Home when Andrew Garfield’s Spider-Man said he stopped “ pulling his punches”? My head canon is a version of this happened
I always like that Spider Man is always holding back. He can dismantle most of his foes easy. He has a very good power and skill set. Combined with his intelligence he's very dangerous. His good and friendly nature keeps him from causing some monster movie horrors.
I feel a lot of people missed the real meaning when in no way home, Andrew Garfield’s Spider-Man stopped pulling his punches after Gwen Stacey meant he started killing every villain he came across
Wow, Spider-Man has a stable job, a stable love life, is involved in making the world a better place directly instead of indirectly. Maybe we need Assassin Spider-Man to return.
spiderman starts killing...and i kind of like it, this raw comic spiderman is wearing a spidersuit but also a polo and kakhi pants and socks and two eyebrow and a hair.
alot of people dont know that normal spidey can lift hundreds of thousands on tones, can be smarter than iron man, and can kill most villains with his wall climbing alone. with all of that, is senses are basically a get out of death free card. he has also defeated all of the avengers at the same time, humiliating them. that isnt even one of the over powered variations.
I like this dark-Spidey story a lot, feels organic and not overly edgy. Also, the fact that Peter programmed the same gesture+pressure tech from his web shooters to make literal "finger guns" is the most accurate thing that an unethical Peter Parker would implement into his suit. That right there was *chef's kiss*
He did as the Punisher too.
@@12MRJERSEY I prefer this rendition. They're not bulky and he does a literal finger gun gesture; which feels much more in line with Peter's tech and personality.
Bully Maguire's got some competition lol
I like dark spiderman stories that actually make sense, not the writers fucking peter’s life every 0.0010939202 milliseconds (I do like this one)
616 Peter solos lmao
I like how his "dark path" led to him getting a brighter future than he normally does.
It just goes to show, sometimes Spider-Man should get a gun
This dark-hero Spiderman is what I hoped Ben Reilly would become. "Scarlet Spider isn't just 'scarlet' because of a choice in fabric dye."
But right now, he's just straight-up evil.
@@tantalus_complex he will return good and this spider-man is an anti-hero/dark hero
@@beywheelzhater8930 spider-man noir,is an example
@@beywheelzhater8930 Instead he got a buggy.
Everyone in the marvel universe forgets that Spiderman has super strength. Not on like the Hulks level obviously, but he could arm wrestle the Thing.
In the comics one time Spidey decked Hulk in the face and knocked him out..
@@BaconNuke Didn't he punch a T-Rex and knock it out too?
@@BaconNuke That's not really a feat worth mentioning. Alfred beat up Superman one time, so do you think Alfred is stronger than Superman? No he isn't. There have been many instances in fiction where the obviously weaker character gets some kind of anger amp (combined with another amp too probably) and gets the upper hand on the obviously stronger opponent that just happens to be caught off guard by their weaker opponent's sudden surge in ferocity.
@@RossLemon Didn't Alfred take some super pills to defeat Superman? Also that was Injustice storyline.
@@The_Mad_Titan_420 Yeah, alfred took super pills which make any human have the strength and durability comparable to that of a kryptonian
I think this one was one of the only edgy "Spider that kills" story lines I actually was semi-okay with. He more just hardened in this world, didn't go straight out evil or crazy, just more intense and... proactive in problem solving.
Honestly, it's more like Spider-man as a spy or solider in the real world. Most of the time, soldiers don't get the "non-lethal" option in a fire fight. That's a luxury for superhumans.
'Spider's Shadow' is also pretty good imo
He even donates to charity and sends his Aunt a check every month. He's a good guy.
Yea he feels a damn lot like Jason Todd which is my favourite Robin
Yeah really tired of those "you're either a saint or a complete psycho there's no in between"
I wish we saw more of this Spider-Man.
Too bad he died in Spider-Geddon
@@creativestudios5562 Damn shame 😔
@@creativestudios5562 I don't take any of those Spiderverse deaths as canon since there's often several identical variants.
@@certifiednobody true, after all spider-man noir did come back a while after Spider-Geddon(where he “supposedly” died)
But the reason he came back was because of his spider-god, making his bite more mystical than scientific.
Unfortunately, Assassin Spidey has origins similar to his 616 counterpart(prior to the divergence) so no spider-god for him
@@creativestudios5562 there’s like 2 or 3 different Spider-Man Unlimited variants in these comics, so I guess sometimes the multiverse just makes a few mirrors of the original
My favorite thing about this storyline is that the transition is gradual and in-character. It's not like he accidentally kills someone and then goes into an edgy streak where now he's just okay with killing because he's done it before. He's torn with grief over the accidental killing, and still remains resolved not to let it happen again. Even in self defense, he continues to enforce his no-kill policy on himself. It's only when he's forced to take more lives that his killing inhibitions wear off, and yet still he doesn't suddenly become some edgy psycho murderer, he's still trying to do the right thing, just with killing the bad guys being a thing he's not afraid to do anymore.
It's a refreshing change of pace from the usually black and white views comics tend to have on the topic. Comics about characters who refuse to kill tend to require the character to become edgy and evil to start killing. This comic takes a step back and says "Spider-Man Peter Parker doesn't need to become an edgy bad guy to kill, he just has to become more morally grey." and as such it feels like the most genuine version of the character who kills. He hasn't become an entirely different person, he's just changed his mind about some things.
Adding a second "oops" before before the "guess I'm edgy now" part doesn't really subvert the fact it's still an "oops, guess I'm edgy now" story. 😬
@@KiraSlith It's not about subversion, it's about realism. The entire point I was making was in regards to the more realistic, morally grey tone the story has in contrast to the more black and white messaging of other similar stories.
@@Crow_Rising It's not even remotely "realistic". People don't just drop their moral convictions with just a few unwitting violations, not even a constant stream of violations will do that. If that were the case, the political left IRL would've collaped after they compared black people to fictional monkeys for the 3rd time back in 2018 (Seriously, even the thought to compare the two is plainly racist). Convictions are a hell of a lot harder to shake than that, in a Super's case it'd take a personal apocalypse (Like say, your city being turned into a nuclear crater) to overturn them otherwise they would've folded far earlier. Parker in particular has been through far worse in all his iterations.
@@KiraSlith He didn't drop his moral convictions. He just became more flexible with his methods. The point OP seems to be making isn't so much about realism, because sometimes realism is worse than believability. Just because people can violate their self-professed morals and attempt to uphold them over and over (badly) doesn't mean it makes for good entertainment.
Even IRL, that sort of thing is the source of endless jokes at the expense of the wannabe moralists.
As for the political examples, collective hypocrisy =/= individual hypocrisy. Collective hypocrisy doesn't really exist unless the entire collective agrees on something (meaning never).
Groups don't have shared, consistent morals like individuals, they have shared, sometimes consistent interests.
How could any sane person possibly accept an _individual,_ for example, who compares a group of people to apes unironically and repeatedly with their own mouth while _simultaneously_ professing to be anti-racist or whatever.
Any person doing that by themselves would be seen (rightly) as worse than someone who just admitted they were racist.
Hell, people who uphold a standard in the present that they didn't in the past, will still have their past actions judged and get their careers ruined in most places if they get enough attention.
The problem with most fictional pop-culture heroes is that when they don't seek 'redemption' for wrongs they think they did, they just go full psycho, like there's an alter-ego that comes out or something (even when there isn't).
People usually have end goals and instrumental goals in service of the former.
Spidey wants to make the world a safer place and protect the innocent, or something to that effect, are his primary goals.
Redeeming and rehabilitating criminals, and using the minimum amount of force possible to detain them, are his secondary goals.
Lots of (though not all) depictions of him that abandon his secondary goals are treated as having abandoned his primary goals as well.
Which is fine sometimes for a good story, but a little variety is nice.
You don't even need any kind of (immediate) personal trauma to trigger this.
Sometimes people just decide to be more ruthless without anything bad happening to them or because of them, like Rorschach from Watchmen snapping twice, both times after strangers were murdered.
His motivations still make enough sense that it doesn't mess with his entertainment value.
Granted, that was sort of tied to his own childhood trauma.
That's my ramble quota filled for today.
@@KiraSlith How hard convictions are to shake depends on a number of factors, it's not simply a matter of magnitude, but rather more importantly a matter of context. Humans are inconsistent creatures like that. The same person who's more than willing to fight a snake might be too terrified to deal with a spider.
In particular, taking a life is a very different thing from failing to save one. Parker may have been through "worse", but that doesn't mean that he won't be impacted more severely by being the one directly responsible for the death. It's specifically the breaking of his most important rule, the very thing that mentally holds him together. The very fact that he is Peter Parker and is normally so adamantly against killing is what makes the transition here feel more real and genuine. It's not a switch that gets flipped, but rather a transition that he has to undergo mentally, coming to grips with a change in mindset that wears away at his strongest inhibition.
Refreshing how when a character breaks their “No killing” motto instead of becoming a bloodthirsty nutcase, they become a peace keeper. Controlling their abilities and not killing when it isn’t necessary
lol "peace keeper" americans are psychos
They have a better life then there original counterpart
It’s refreshing because it’s unrealistic
@@LukeAtmey-s2vCare to explain why? Logically speaking, it's unrealistic for someone to suddenly become a "bloodthirsty nutcase" after breaking a no-kill rule.
@@LukeAtmey-s2v and how is it unrealistic?
Ironically the one reason spider man couldn’t lift Thors hammer in 616 was because he wouldn’t kill for the greater good. Wonder if this spider man could lift it
*he wouldn't kill and prolly
@@nkemnoraulmanfredini7286 What are you correcting??
It is immoral not to kill those who are killing or will kill others.
@@chrisbera7952 not exactly
@@TheGreatBackUpVIDEOS A spelling mistake that the author fixed after it was pointed out.
4:05 Spidey really said "Parry this, filthy casual"
Spiderman is such a good guy that the writers need to make multiple comics, where he’s evil
He wasn't really evil in this one he just went from stopping crime to stopping corruption
@@Remyzxn true, but im just talking about the overall amount of comics where spiderman is some how evil
the brighter the light
the bigger the shadow
@@fredz91 oh ok
Even in the zombie comics, Spiderman tries to be a hero….by choosing to eat villains but ended up infecting another universe
I appreciate that this didn’t just turn into another “Superhero kills the Marvel Universe” situation
It felt a bit more organic, with Peter still being Peter, doing what he thinks is the right thing to do, but with the removal of the no-kill rule.
This version of Spiderman would make Deadpool proud.
No he wouldn’t, he’d probably just say he’s no fun anymore
Disagree.
Edgy Spiderman would be a boner killer.
Spiderman: Hey Deadpool, I was hired to kill some Russian assassin. You in?
Deadpool: .....you have no idea how long I have waited for you to ask me that! HELL YEAH I'M IN!
I feel like deadpool would at least admire the literal finger guns if he saw them
@@Josuh Deadpool: Now that's what I call a finger bang!
It’s moment like this reminds me of how insanely strong Spiderman is. My man is literally one step away from being an avenger level threat with his mind and strength
He already is in here; His spider sense is so well trained that it basically becomes a limited future sight.
He knows danger is coming for him hours before it happens, and where it's going to come from.
@@boxtupos7718 not only that, but Peter is a genius with technology. He could create some very powerful weapons if needed.
not rly spiderman was never able to kill people like hulk if they werent nerfed a lot
@@stlvnabags1803 my guy pretty much no one(even thanos) can really hurt a lore accurate hulk. Bro beats up planets as a hobby
@@stlvnabags1803 notice how the only people out classing spiderman are either gods or the hulk whos been said to be the personification of gods wrath
This was actually WAAAAY better then I thoight by just reading the title. Most of these "Samarian hero starts killing" is just so bad and edgy and over done a million times you get sick of it but this was actually well made and really unique. I could ACTUALLY see this working as a hero of his own y'know?
Ikr. Finally not another "Oh, I got a taste of blood, and I want more, guilty or not, I don't care!" Here, I feel like we got a perfect Spiderman, he'll try his best to be non-lethal, but he also won't pussyfoot around if the situation calls for quick and swift elimination, like the guy at 4:01. Wanted to hit Spidey with "I counter your webs lol", and Peter just showed him that he can adapt and evolve too xD
1-1😊
What is there beside punisher or deadpool?
Another alternate universe where Spider-Man has a better life then the default.
turns out getting rid of some of your problems will make you feel a little better
I just wish some of these what if stories got expanded and maybe even a full run
He’s in a Spiderverse run and goes by Spider Assassin I believe in Spidergeddon
@@Mulletman_Comicssadly he dies in spidergeton
@@Mulletman_Comics I desperately need a recap of spidergeddon
They would be more popular than the main run. That’s why they won’t be done. 😂
@@JuanSanchez-wv4qy Wouldn't that be more reason to do it?
There's something utterly horrifying about the spider picking YOUR limbs off, and they usually do a good job of showcasing how scary spiderman actually is when he goes off the rails
This by far one of my favorite iterations of Spider-Man. He still has his quips and his moral ethics, but he’s much more refined as both alter ego and person
Alternative title: Spider-Man grows a brain, and a spine.
No. More like. Spiderman is broken and rebuilds himself into a killer. He can only be this by giving up his life and everyone he cares about. Otherwise, he would eventually get everyone killed.
@@popeye697 you know if you subtract the killer part it's every Spider-Man story ever, Spider-Man is broken, must give up everything in order to save everyone.
@@popeye697 What do you mean "giving up everyone he cares about"? He sends checks to Aunt May and wrote a letter to MJ. Dude still gives a damn, he's just a soldier now.
Everyone talks like this unless it's them on the chopping block
@@leminer4049 if I were Spidey I wouldn't kill people, I'd just turn JJJ into a superman and have his glorious moustached face be the literal shield of Earth
Wow I totally love this story. The big issue with the whole "killing is bad" is that it completely contradicts our whole culture of calling soldiers heroes. I feel like this is a much more mature take on it. What would happen if an honorable soldier got super powers? Would he stop killing? Probably not, but it would give him the power to fight enemies that are too dangerous to take on before.
John Stuart Ergo Green Lantern was a former but he still doesn't kill
The thing is that if you have the power to end a fight non-lethally and you take the easy way out. Was it the right call? If a kid attacked you during a tantrum the easiest way to end the tantrum is to beat the hell out of them till they can no longer tantrum. But its clearly not the right answer.
All soldiers are heroes but not all heroes are. War is different
@@Nick-Terakidan doesnt his lantern ring prevent him from killing?
He needs to have a choice to make it his own personal decision
@@youtubestudiosucks978 after blackest night the no killing rule got removed, dunnoh if it was ever replaced again. And as Green Lantern evil Batman has show, you can break the rule, it just requires great willpower
This is what happens when the villains ACTUALLY run out of plot armour
Japanese Spiderman be like: Eh, you only start killing now?
I love these stories where writers remove the "limiters" off Peter. His super-strength is on par with big hitters like The Thing, Thor and maybe even Colossus. The fact he is _always_ holding back to _not_ kill people is remarkable.
Not thor, thor blows up planets when he hits them
So you're telling me if Spiderman has become a train killing machine. He gets to be happy while our Spiderman, who has a kindness cant catch a break to the writers?
Pretty much
It's as though Marvel writers have only one storyline for Pete: Make him suffer in every conceivable way
Are we sure Marvel isn't sponsored by Osborn?
@@samuelhunter4631 wait you got a point 🤔
You know what they say about good deeds and punishment. The whole theme of Spider-Man is that he does what's right, rather than what's easy.
Welcome to the real world. Lmao
I mean, it's because he's cut himself off. Is it really that happy that he's separated himself from everyone he used to care about? What happens when the jobs slow down?
I just had a cool idea. What if Peter trained this universe's Miles Morales to be a covert assassin as well? A cloaking stealth Spider-Man would be awesome!
probably the successor of this spider-man is in fact assassin spider-man(miles morales)
I think it might make more sense if this Peter does the reverse, so there is a "clean" Spider-Man to be a super-hero in the light, while he works in the shadows
I'm imaging this miles would pr9sblly have claws on his suit and the prowler color scheme
That would be a real sight to behold, and I like the idea that he would also take inspiration from his uncle. Especially if it's a reformed version, handing off the suit and tech for miles to make a spider/prowler hybrid would be great. Something mostly black with red and purple highlights.
spiderman when he is not in the right place (mentally) just kills people in comics all the time
The only time where writers were like "Lets make spidermans an actual hero instead of a teenage hero and torturing him". Ironically this must be the only time where spiderman doesn't hold back and everything goes well for him.
My brain : "*gasp, nooo why would he do that, spider man is a good guy, he must never kill."
My heart : "F*cking finally..."
I like how he stays level headed and doesn't go too far like Injustice Superman.
Not many know that Spider-man is nearly always holding back. That's why he's one of the most fierce Marvel heroes. He even caught Bucky's metal punch like a soft ball which could send Captain America flying even after blocking with his shield. If you think about it, it's why Spidey can crack corny jokes while in any situation. He's THAT calm and confident.
He is way beyond human but more super humans are above him. His classified as Class 10, meaning he can comfortably lift 10 tons. Able to lift higher only with strain and great effort. Someone like She-Hulk was at class 50 for decades meaning she could casually and comfortably lift 50 tons. Then her limit went to 75. Spider-Man is still class 10.
@@TheLastSane1 That's cool. I wasn't saying Spider-man is THE best, I was saying how he's ONE OF the best with an explanation of how he's so easily underestimated.
@@TheLastSane1 The crazy thing is that he's even that high, he's primarily an agility style hero with some tech use baked in, so super strength is technically part of the outlier powers of his kit. He's got mad utility.
i think hes even higher actually, he lifted up the entire daily bugle with immense effort
@@TheLastSane1 he canonically lifts over 100's of tons he isn't class 10
This spiderman deserves his own series
His suit looks pretty great.
You know it is kinda crazy how strong spider would be with some training he's already super strong and flexible so if he became a marital arts master combined with spider sense he would be unbeatable
He already has extensive combat and martial arts training, developed “spider-fu” to work best with his superhuman abilities and spider-sense
@@Junya01 imagine if he trained to kill
Shang-Chi and Madame Webb already trained hin
Spider-fu uses Spider-Man physical traits to its fullest; He can even anticipate attacks from someone who has future sight.
Way of the Spider has Peter fully rely on his Spider sense.
Psylocke tried reading Peter's mind to anticipate his moves; But even with a telepath his movement is unpredictable.
Spider-Man also learned defensive magic from Dr. Strange once, so he has magical potential. But, he had his memories of that wiped.
Spidey developed the Way of the Spider martial art, which made his moves unpredictable even to mind-readers, and upped his Spider-Sense to the point of pretty much precognition
Of course that got reset tho
This is one of my favourite alternate takes of Spider-man. Wish we could've seen more of him
This really felt like something Spider-Man would do. Not to mention his intelligence and gadget making. He’d have to be one the best hero’s undoubtedly.
Spider-Man and Wolverine are always a fun team.
Assassin Spidey has one of my favorite interactions in Spider-Verse
"Why do your web-shooters fire bullets?"
"I think a better question is...why don't yours?"
One of my favorite Spiderman stories, he develops his potential and unlike other stories he didn't turn into a murderer for abandoning his no kill rule.
I actually love this. Every story where a hero kills they do a complete 180 personality wise and become this massive threat to the world. It always felt to me like the author's giving a middle finger to all the people who make the very reasonable point that if super villains are just going to walk out of jail in a month or two, why not just kill them and prevent hundreds or thousands of deaths? Especially villains like the Joker, who would realistically be hunted down and killed by the government anyway.
I agree with this so tremendously.
Because then escaping is not realistic. Superheroes could build super-prisons and be done with that. Good luck for Joker to escaping from another dimension or a prison 10 trillion light years from Earth.
People seem to forget that supervillains re-appear/escape simply because authors had success with them and want to milk them more for cash.
If all superheroes were to kill, authors would just introduce more and more one-off villains instead.
It would not change the fundamental problem with these kind of stories.
Permanent solution in superhero genre is de-facto unachievable since people crave struggle and controversy.
If all people wanted to read in comics were happy endings and slice of life stories, yes, eventually hero’s win and world peace would be more common.
But people read comics because they want one character to smash another, more often than not.
Readers don’t WANT peace and meaningful conclusion. They want entertainment and action/high stakes every Tuesday/gore etc.
@@kingol4801 With the way they write Joker, I think he probably would escape from prison in another dimension or light years away lol
@@kingol4801 Have they ever done a story of The Joker being tossed into the Phantom Zone?
Also technically, if this was the real world they could build an underwater prison facility, but since this is a comic book that is hardly a deterrent.
@@Reddotzebra They did! It wasn't the focus of the story per-sey, though: Joker didn't actually escape on his own merit, Superman was convinced to release him to Arkham by Batman after Amanda Wallers played on his sense of morality to manipulate him.
It's been DC canon for a while that the villains rarely actually *escape*, and the times they do the ones we see, with for example Batman or Superman coming to stop them - after all, why wouldn't they call the JLA if Joker just broke out When villains conveniently escape off camera and the JLA only learns after the fact, what's REALLY happening is they did some Suicide Squad work and were let out in secret.
Wolverine and Spiderman together are a n unstoppable duo
The biggest flaw of spiderverse was how it killed spider people for the dumbest reasons especially the ones that deserved to have comic runs (this one and noir spiderman).
noir got revived lol
the wiki says he was revived.
I've never read the Doc Oc story... but I read about it, and the amount of...dare we call it HUMILITY that Octavius develops in those few moments...
"He was always holding back when he fought us... ALWAYS..."
I'll be honest but I love this version of Spider-Man he will kill if necessary.
"Ditched Mary Jane"
Best fucking decision ever
This is my favourite Spider-Man. It really shows how broke Spidey can actually be
I think this version of Spider-Man was killed by Morlun in SpiderVerse which pissed me off.
dang it
It infuriated me, and it made no sense. He has perfect precognition, he could see literally everything that could possibly happen. SpiderVerse was retarded anyway, but that was the worst part.
He at least came back to life and was seen in one of the web worriors issues though.
It's pretty stupid that the Spider-Man who trained his spider sense to the point of turning into a pseudo future sense; Is the one to die early.
@@boxtupos7718 I mean to be fair he has immunity to spider sense just like venom
I guess he was too cool for the writers and they needed a journeyman
"webs, hah"
"you're right"
**random gun from his wrist**
This is why when heroes go evil they seem more powerful, their not holding back
This is why I love Wolverine. He's a very good guy who knows you NEED to kill sometimes. He doesn't cry or complain about it, he just gets it done.
Even when he’s killing he still ends up being somehow somewhat good
That doc ock realization is priceless. One hell of a way to be humbled after being enemies with spider man for that long
Absolutely love these!
If you haven't already, you should talk about the war of jokes and riddles and about how Batman almost broke his rule before a certain person stopped him 😁
it's ironic who stopped him
Spider man is a guy who always hold back even at worst time
Assassin Spider is of my favorite variant; gritty, deadly, cold and isnt afraid to hold back. Combining his spidy combat skills but also switches his web to bullets. But thats just me of course.
Spidey going down this route makes Frank Castle really proud one way or the other
The fact that he could have killed whoever he wanted all this time.... that's super crazy man...
Why everytime spiderman dicides to ignore his uncle's advice his life get way less miserable?
Because he becomes a worse person and as a bad person in comics you don't realize how everything goes off rails.
@@lightborn9071 合理性に欠ける この合理性の意味を理解することはないだろう。 ピーターを過小評価している
He didn’t ignore his advice. The advice was with great power comes great responsibility. And that responsibility was kicking ass and taking names!! 😂
@@lightborn9071This is surprisingly tame for a "no-kill rule being taken off" story. Spider-Man doesn't go "off rails". He's not out killing innocents, or doing shit like what Injustice Superman would do. He's still got his morals.
If _this_ is off the rails to you, then you're gonna _absolutely despise_ Deadpool.
@@axain7784 Deadpool IS off the rails, man.
Pete straight went Redhood with Batman smarts
2:52
^ One of my favorite Spider-Man variants🕷️🕸️
A hero that isnt afraid to kill is an anti-hero.
Per definition anti-heroes have to kill, and if they dont kill their enemies then their not anti-heroes.
4:26 that has to be the ugliest gun I've ever seen in comics
Bro have you see this shid? 3:32
@@Nombrenooriginal although cursed, this is far more acceptable than that MP4-A1
That was sick. I wish him and the Symbiote would have bonded, he would be a real killer.
Thinking about it, spiderman is really an odd one out in marvel, being one of the few characters that doesn’t outright kill ppl.
Honestly, probably one of the happier Peters in the multiverse.
There is also the one where Spider-Man snaps as his aunt gets shot by a hitman sent by Kingpin. This because he had revealed his own identiy to the world earlier. And then he goes on a hunt to find he hitman as well as figuring out who sent him. Then one of the greatest beatdowns ensues where he breaks into a high security prison, and proceeds to beat the ever living shit out of Kingpin. Not as Spider-Man, but as Peter Parker. Leaving Kingpins life hanging on a thread (no pun intended) and letting Kingpin know that as soon as he gets a notification that his aunt is dead. He will kill him.
Always appreciate the minimalist setting when it pans to you.
I'm guessing the russian responsible for designing Crimson Dynamo's armor with power cables that stick out from his back like butterfly wings was quickly promoted to the gulag.
yep
lmao
I think this is now my favorite Spiderman. Also kinda funny how he has a longer lasting relationship than almost any other spiderman
Bruh wolverine olus spidey would be insane in covert ops. Wolverine with long range smell sense plus tracking, spidey short range danger sense.
Please do more dark/edgy Spider-Man stories! These are awesome
If Spider-Man had the mindset of the Punisher, crimerates would have dropped so much crimelords would be funding the Avengers to stop him.
I came across this character in the Spider-verse comics. I didn't realise this guy had an actual storyline in comic form before hand.
you have my respect bigger than any other channel on youtube
The dude literally basically has precognition and complete total awareness of his environment in like a very ridiculously wide range around him and spider webs on depending on the version he might even have a whole shit ton of different types even all made from actual spider silk whether it's natural or artificial which is ridiculously strong even if villains tend to break out of it pretty easy, that's more so just a testament to the fact that they tend to have super strength strong enough to break even steel wires which spidersilk at the thickness of spider webs would at least be tantamount to. Beyond all that he can also stick to walls which also is really more so he can stick to anything and there's a lot more interesting ways that someone could use this lifesafer example sticking his feet to someone's chest and sticking his hand for their head and then using his ridiculous super strength to literally rip their spine from their body
He left Mary Jane thank goodness 😂❤
I agree with a lot of the comments, this a very in-character and non-edgy way to make Spider-Man kill. One thing that always icks me about Spider-Man killing is when he kills anyone with no exceptions, but in this story he goes after corrupt officials, not going on the street and beating someone to death because they jay-walked.
Also another superhero trope I hate is one kill is enough to make a character spiral into more killing. It wouldn't be hard at all to kill someone like Joker and stop there, if there's someone that dangerous then they need to get the death penalty, anyone else can just go to prison.
"Peter cant catch a break" yeah he also couldnt catch gwen
Technically he did
"Going on black ops missions to make the world a better place."
Yeah I set my house on fire to prevent arsonists from getting it.
That makes absolutely no sense. How are "black ops" setting your own house on fire?
Why is spiderman hiding his identity? Same thing on another level.
@@MegaEssin Woooooooooooosh.
@@connorscanlan2167 Yeah, that didnt go over my head. Your example is just not relevant.
Explain to me what you think "black ops" are? A secret way for the goverment to kill people without reprecussions?
That storyline was actually really good. Spidy being more like Logan makes sense in this case, and he's not a villain.
I've always had this feeling of something's missing with Spidey... And as in this version of Spiderman, it's training, gruel and brutal training that hones his superhuman agility, strength, reflexes and senses to it's maximum potential. Like training his spider sense to have true precognitive function, detecting danger even before anything happened.
Wolverine is basically a regular man with regular beast-like senses with super regeneration. Combat ability wise, he should not be able to rival Spiderman in terms of strength, speed and reaction time but he did... and he's able to because of the inhuman training he went through thanks to his super regeneration.
If Spidey gets the training that suits him the best, a finger flick could put Wolverine at bay in a fight.
In conclusion, the cannon Spidey is the one that held back almost all of his potential combat prowess, simply with no specialized training whatsoever and his policy of no killing.
Spider-Man activated instant kill mode for sure
Wolverine really took bad influence to a whole other level
gun webshooter is fucking badass though. would love to see a parody spider-man like this
Hot Take: remember that moment in No Way Home when Andrew Garfield’s Spider-Man said he stopped “ pulling his punches”? My head canon is a version of this happened
You should do a vid about Killer Croc
Bro look like Spider pool with that suit
I always like that Spider Man is always holding back. He can dismantle most of his foes easy. He has a very good power and skill set. Combined with his intelligence he's very dangerous. His good and friendly nature keeps him from causing some monster movie horrors.
I'm a Punisher fan, but you managed to get me interested in two Spider-Man stories that I discovered through your videos.
1:17 But Gwen caught one. :D
Yea a real pain in the neck she was tbh. Never liked her, he personality just didn't snap y'know?
The only time spider man gets more good than bad things happen to him is when he kills people
Now that I think about it if spiderman wanted to instantly end a fight all he would have to do is give a punch to the balls
keep in mind in most version of spider-man he literally is still not able to legally buy alcohol
I feel a lot of people missed the real meaning when in no way home, Andrew Garfield’s Spider-Man stopped pulling his punches after Gwen Stacey meant he started killing every villain he came across
I like how they used the Alex Ross concept art suit for this
This dude was so OP that Marvel writers had to kill him.
He actually came back apparently killing the leach totems revive everyone they absorb
the one time he isnt utterly miserable is when the writers make him a killer
Wow, Spider-Man has a stable job, a stable love life, is involved in making the world a better place directly instead of indirectly.
Maybe we need Assassin Spider-Man to return.
spiderman starts killing...and i kind of like it, this raw comic spiderman is wearing a spidersuit but also a polo and kakhi pants and socks and two eyebrow and a hair.
alot of people dont know that normal spidey can lift hundreds of thousands on tones, can be smarter than iron man, and can kill most villains with his wall climbing alone. with all of that, is senses are basically a get out of death free card. he has also defeated all of the avengers at the same time, humiliating them. that isnt even one of the over powered variations.
"All it takes is one bad day"...
ha webs, what a los- 💥 4:00