The fear green goblin displayed when he heard Spider-Man crack a joke is such an iconic panel to me. Realizing that Peter is back and that he is so fucked.
@@yoursonisold8743 I think there's a hint of fear in there as well: he can control Otto, he knows how he acts and that he always tries to do the most logical thing, so he can one-up him. But Peter? True, he can try to control Peter by using a loved one or an innocent bystander, but he doesn't know how his mind and his emotive side work as well as Otto's
My biggest issue with Superior Spider-man was how Peter’s life was completely screwed up after he got his body back. And the fact that literally nobody else figured out something was going on with him is ridiculous. They all just assumed he chose to become an arrogant jerk who talks like Octavius. I know the Avengers ran some tests (and still missed the fact Otto was in control), but they seriously couldn’t have called a telepath to take a quick look. And then there’s everyone else in Peter’s life not even questioning the sudden personality shift and just going along with it
Yeah, you right. In a world of body-snatchers, clones, dopplegangers and alien sleeper agent replacements, they were a little tooooo quick to acceptance.
I mean Peter tried to explain it later on, but it just sounded incredibly ridiculous to everyone. Which… you have to admit they’re not wrong to believe that.
A few people suspected something was off during the run itself (Deadpool though he was less funny and agent venom probably figured there was a problem due to him being burned alive)
My only problem with Superior Spider-Man is that every supporting character suffered from Plot Induced Stupidity. Like you said, Mary Jane somehow couldn't figure out that the love of her life was suddenly acting like a massive jackass to everyone. I still love this story tho.
They could have used that to up the tension to 11 and have a Death Note style cat-and-mouse thing where Mary Jane is trying to convince people but Otto manages to stay one step ahead thanks to Pete's memories. Instead he was basically just Otto in a Peter suit and everyone bought it, essentially no questions asked
To be completely fair. If your wife or other loved one started being an absolute asshole to everyone and you thought she was brain swapped by a villain, youd be the crazy/stupid one
God damn, the idea that a MARVEL writer would, in good conscience, recreate the circumstances of one of the most despised moments in comic history only makes sense with the theory Alex provided. It’s insane.
@@thomasneal9291 Hey what the hell, it goes without saying that death threats sent to writers because of fiction is just garbage human behaviour. I was already aware of the shit the writers for for One more day it’s pretty common knowledge if your a spider-man reader. I was just surprised to hear something so despised as one more day basically happened again, I didn’t follow the Otto spin-off.
@@thomasneal9291 yknow this shit is actually global right? They even did this to Honkai Impact creator (an anime game) when there was an event that made all the girls wear bunny suits lol and there was a legit fucking assassination attempt
@@spacecookiez5045 I think something similar happened with a Lady Thor writer no? I read something like assault or stalking on a blog post. Regardless, you’d think they were tampering with fissile material instead of comic material from the reactions some people have to them. I don’t think much of Lady Thor, but I still respect it and it’s creators. Fans can be crazy.
Man, superior Spider-Man was a really good comic run. I love how Otto grew major respect for Peter after taking over his body. You get to see the subtle character growth that Otto has and it also makes you think if Otto is the better Spider-Man. The moment where Peter makes Otto hesitate during the girl’s surgery makes you second guess peters moral. The end where Otto even gives up his body to stop Norman shows the immense amount of character development that he went through in this run.
@@Hellyeahray21 comic books in a nutshell. Or more specifically, the Big Two in a nutshell. We're pretty much never gonna get a satisfying conclusion to anything in marvel or DC
@@chaddaddywarden4349 My theory is that this is one of the reasons to why mangas are starting to surpass comics in sales (west), besides most new writters sucking and stories trying to be relatable to younger audience, but failing and being just cringe.
@@Another_Hibiki this is why I greatly prefer self-contained stories that have nothing to do with multiverse BS or crossovers or anything else, just a story that focuses on one single hero. Imo marvel/DC's elseworlds stories are often their best works by far, plus when's the last time we had a proper self-contained solo MCU movie? Bc I can't recall the last time we had anything that didn't contain other characters or reminding the audience that its a cinematic universe. 10 years from now nobody will remember Black Widow 2020 or Shang-Chi or Eternals but u bet ppl will still remember TDK and Spider-Man 2002
I love this sort of "Walk a mile in their shoes" kind of character development. Force a character to realize just how and why a certain person behaves by shoving them in their body and they can learn a lot.
Alex, if you're a huge fan of Superior Spider-Man, I highly recommend reading Superior Four, which focuses on Otto teaming up with various versions of himself, and he goes through a journey where he learns to move on from being Spider-Man, but also a villain, and decides to try helping others as Otto Octavius, for me it's basically an epilogue to last Superior Spider-Man run
I absolutely adore the original Superior Spider-Man run. It was the first comic run I ever fully collected. Gonna be honest: I knew that Otto ended up coming back eventually but had no idea they One More Day'd him.... That really really sucks :'(
Spidey's editorial staff be like: "Wow, that's a pretty cool status quo change you've got there. Be a real shame if someone were to retroactively undo it in the shittiest way possible"
@@halfmettlealchemist8076 Tbh a lot of these "interesting changes" were screw-ups done by someone who only thinks of playing with a big character, a cool idea and terrible execution that damages a lot of the characters' stories in favor of a bizarre new fantasy, so someone would come up later and undo that as a way to fix everything. That's what happened with Ben Reilly, with One More Day, with Miles Morales, with Dark Reign, and so on. It's not a matter of "oh but this was a good run and that was a bad run", there's no such thing when you're working with this stuff. If it exists, it can be undone and redone, that's what made a lot of fanfavorite characters to come back and stories to exist, so it's really difficult to tell what was a good or a bad decision by an editor. What really matters is "oh here's a new thing, do you like it? Maybe it will come back later and you'll get more of it. Oh you don't like it? Well don't worry, it's only gonna last for a while, and you won't have to read it if you want to keep up with the main universe", so everybody can have their cake and eat it too at some point. In terms of 'Superior Spider-Man', at the same time there were pros, there were also a lot of cons. Peter Parker is highly beloved so any attempts at trying to tarnish his character by making him seem 'evil' is a terrible idea, with the only salvation being that he's only seen as the better character because Otto will always be a villain, which might seem interesting, but it's actually dumb when you realize you're literally just trying to make the hero look bad when the villain will obviously always be the worst. At the end, the only thing that saved these crazy ideas was the multiverse, because that's where the writers are not limited by the main timeline, they can just write whatever they want and give as much as readers want. I certainly would read a story where Otto Octavius had spider powers and that's it, just him, no Peter except for being a background character.
@@radrno7 Main timeline is fucking boring, you marvel fanboy, nothing ever changes, the status quo is always the same, what a fucking boring story, this is why less and less people buy comics from the west.
The Superior run was one of my favorites. My only problem with it was that I disliked Marvel killing off Otto, then bringing him back as a villain like if none of this mattered.
Yeah one of the worst things about the comic book medium is that they’re almost always forced to return to the status quo somehow and it just makes certain phenomenal storylines feel pointless
You’ve done this storyline a huge justice; I never get tired hearing about this arc. Not only the metamorphosis Doc Ock goes through but also the lasting changes that occur in Peter Parker’s life and relationships. Great work as always Alex
Two things I hated about the initial run of Superior. #1. The Green Goblin didn't turn out to be little Normie Osborn in some kind of adult exosuit or something. I thought that's where Slott was headed, what with Otto's soft spot for children continuously being established. And then his final baddie is a child- the dramatic irony! But nope, it's Norman AGAIN, with some weird backwards twist that he just had a different face under his mask. #2. Peter wasn't more passionately ticked off about the whole thing and gave Otto a pass after he encountered him again. I feel like the Peter I grew up reading would have lunged for Otto the second he saw him again in Spider-Verse, then grudgingly been talked down and forced to work with him. But nope, he's so damned meek about the whole thing and even praises and forgives Otto eventually. This was an aspect of Peter (his temper) that Slott never really understood or got right.
I returned to reading the comics when Peter was back in control, and I kinda enjoyed how he went around to mend his broken relationships with The Avengers, Black Cat, Mary Jane and his other super hero friends. I think was an enjoyable experience, if I could say myself, see how of a peacemaker Peter Parker is, and how his humanity drew people back to him.
Did "mending his broken relationships" include any of those people apologizing to Peter for never even suspecting that he'd been bodyjacked and replaced by an imposter? Because I feel like the entire superhuman community kind of dropped the ball hard during this story arc, you'd think they'd all be on guard about this kind of thing happening after the Secret Invasion.
@@AlteredNova04 Honestly the fact that MJ and Aunt May especially didn't realize anything was wrong, and that Slott had MJ get mad at Peter at the end of it still pisses me off
@@mikemorro140 consider that some got so pissed off they wrote literal death threats to the author. if you are THAT pissed off about a damn COMIC? you have issues to deal with. serious issues.
Superior Spiderman is one of my FAVORITE Spiderman stories, EVER; tied with Kraven's Last Hunt. It was such a nice take on Spidey, and it is incredibly amusing to see how Octo's ego and distorted notion of heroism plays through the series. Even during his "Superior Octopus" phase he was still a very interesting character. A real shame the writers had to undo everything he did just for a cheap "Return of Doctor Octopus".
i'm fucking crying this is the first time I'm hearing about otto making a deal with Mephisto. I could only imagine reading the comic day one and realize THEY'RE FUCKING DOING IT AGAIN.
Favorite alternate Spiderman, such an interesting development for Spiderman and Otto. I think it would've been so great if they followed through with Otto staying Spiderman with Peter being completely dead. It was enough that he already implanted his memories into Otto that nearly combined the two.
@@gloriousporpoise9731 of course, but it's still a lil breath of fresh air for the character, I think it's like in the 90s when they used to have so many twists to the mainline. Just a lil fun imo.
It might be ironic, but Superior Spiderman was what got me into spiderman. It might have been because I was a stupid teen and thought this run was cool because of the blood and violence, but I also remembering crying at issue no. 30, when Otto begged Peter to save Anna Maria. And this was also what got me into spider verse. God I have so much nostalgia for this run.
Me too. I remember I was just a kid when I found out that Spider-Man swapped minds with Octavius and was brutally killed by him. The violence shocked my little kid brain.
Good stuff bro. I'm really glad you talked about the fact that Marvel completely erased all that character development that Otto had. Spencer tried to restore as much of that as possible, but as usual, Spider-Man editorial stepped and decided, "no, no I don't think I will."
This Saga along with the Sam Rami films and Spectacular Spiderman made me truly love Otto as a character. If put in the right situation, he really is capable of change
I know it’s a bit rough around the edges at times but it’s still one of my favorite comic runs of all time. The premise is just so great, and the twists and events are genuinely shocking upon a first read. Great read.
You've summed up my love and thoughts on this series, and my frustrations with Otto's growth being undone. Far better than how I could've worded it. I wish Superior Spider-Man would get another chance, whether it be through a comic set in an alternate universe, or a video game adaptation. I don't want Superior Spider-Man to be remembered as 'that time where dock ock took over Spidey's body for a brief period of time' that gets barley referenced, I want it to be remembered as Otto's redemption arc, and for him to become as much a beloved anti-hero as Eddie Brock. If enough people show support for him, maybe Superior Spider-Man might return, and get the respect it needs. Or, perhaps with No Way Home's success, we'll see Otto continue his redemption arc, even without being a Spider-Man.
Funny you should say that last part. Because it turns out there is an epilouge arc where he meets other versions of himself and learns rest maybe he can help people as who he is.
If you already don't read Spider-Man comics, you are very lucky Ever since Superior ended, every run up to Spencer was legit ass, and after Spencer left its ass again If you do actively read Spider-Man comics, Superior is your last chance to enjoy the character 🤣
This reminds me a lot of the Azreal Arc. They both use the most popular character of the publishers, they both have the main hero get sidelined for a more brutal replacement complete with a new more advanced and deadly suit, they both end with the replacement realizing they aren’t cut out for the role. I mean they even both somehow spawned a short lived solo series of their respective “replacement” characters. They both definitely have their own qualities. The Azreal arc is a critique on the hyper-violent heroes of the 90s and why replacing batman or changing him to be more alike them is a terrible idea. The superior Spider-Man arc is more so a character study of doc oc.
Man, I really liked the first Superior Spider-Man run. After reading the second volume where he goes back to full-on Doc Ock, that was honestly a big part in my decision to just stop reading new comics. I've never seen any genre or medium more hell-bent on being as stagnant as possible.
That's why Manga is way better than comics. No matter how good character development happens on comics, everything will eventually be rebooted and nothing really matters at all.
the original superior spiderman run has a special place in my heart cause i read it when i was new to comics and had to wait for my mom to finish work after school before going home. it really did move me and made me love spiderman so much more and thats why hearing what happened in the follow up run is so bitter. marvel and dc really struggle with character development.
I loved the Superior Spider-Man. Otto's fall in the original run was done great. He was getting the comeuppance he deserved, but as readers, we had seen how much he had grown. His sacrifice was tragic because we knew he wasn't the same psychopath as before. His return was done poorly, and his second fall was done even worse. The idea that the status quo is god really hurt, since Otto had really changed as a character. It reminds me of Marvel's utter horror of letting someone other than Eddie be Venom
This run is so underrated. Probably my favorite Spider-man moment of all time is when Peter is finally back in control and runs into Green Goblin, hits him with a quip and Norman, who could tell that it wasn't really Peter before, makes a face like the Wicked Witch and just screams "It's You!"
it's always a good day when Alex uploads and we really appreciate your work man. I also really enjoyed "Superior Spider-Man" preferably vol 2 from 2019.
This is one of my favorite channels currently. It's so obvious how much you love spiderman and it shows in your work. My opinion on the character has genuinely changed because of you.
I've never really read many comic books, but this is one of the rare channels that can cover a story in a compelling way while letting someone like me in on all of the small details and nudges that I would otherwise miss. Thanks for making it, and subscribed!
I loved this story. Met Dan Slott at a con years ago and I remember talking about the idea with him and it was nice cause he seemed excited to tell this story.
I’ve always loved Superior Spider-Man. It was very a creative and interesting way to create an alternate Spider-Man and explore the character of Otto Octavius. I’ve always wanted to see this adapted in media (I know that it was adapted in Marvel’s Spider-Man 2017 but it was so short and I despise that show) like maybe a Spiderverse sequel? Before I forget, I loved your video. I learned things about The Superior Spider-Man I didn’t know before like how he returned but then got the ONE MORE DAY treatment. So sad 😞
it seems incredibly likely that one of the Insomniac games will adapt it. Otto's situation at the end of that game, his mind sharp but his body decaying in the raft, while Peter runs around in a suit that otto helped design, feels very much like the setup for superior
I'm glad you uploaded alex. I've been having a rough week. Me my parents are tested positive for covid so I'm stuck home for awhile, so I'm glad I have your video for a comfort watch.
Holy crap the premise of getting Freaky Friday'd, dying in the other person's body, only to wake up years later after the other person has been joyriding around in your body for decades and has completely changed your life is terrifying.
The first volume of superior spider man had two of the best side books written. The first the Superior foes of spider man and the second superior spider man team up which really did a great job of showing off ock as spider man and how his past life and his time as a villian really effected the hero role like chilling through an issue with the also now good guy magneto or having to work the man that had killed him in the past. The book also ended with a much better send off to ock's time on the pages if there ever was a chance for permanence to it
Great video! Though I want to note that whenever you say "this isn't groundbreaking" I get confused because there's no reason for it to be groundbreaking. The same stories have been told hundreds of times, comics or otherwise, and I think what makes stories like this one special is how well they write them. This storyline forces you to watch Peter Parker die in a battle of wills and has you sit with that for multiple arcs, just so it can hit you with "No, good will CAN and DOES prevail! This is Spider Man we're talking about!" I personally really enjoy when a story is just a powerful version of an idea that's been done, because refinement allows for good ideas to be expanded upon.
I'm so happy you made a vid highlighting one of the best and underrated Spiderman stories. I always found the concept for Superior Spiderman so fascinating and was hooked. Tho I never knew how it ended... what a pleasant slap to the face ._. Great vid btw 👌👌👌
My first comic run ever and to this date still one of my favourites! The conclusion to the massacre-storyline is still giving me chills when I think about it
I love that "Printing their hate mail with no comments" thing, it's genuinely really funny to me. Love that, really does give a "We do not care lol" vibe
It's so annoying whenever comics end up reverting back to a status quo. You'd think that, with the FUCKING MULTIVERSE being such a big theme in comics (especially nowadays), that you could just let a comic run go the way the writers intended from day 1 without any outside forces trying to change them. There's millions of Spider-people in different runs and it's cool when you can explore vastly different concepts, always remembering that the originals will ALWAYS be there when you want to see/read them again. Excellent video dude you got a subscriber out of me!
This is pretty much the best way to explain about Superior Spider-Man. A story with mixed bag start later became really amazing. Then later got flushed down into the drain after its great end.
When I was younger I didn't understand that conflict is what makes stories great. I used to hate episodes where super powers would be taken away, or random stuff would happen that would prevent a character from operating at peak efficiency. It wasn't until I saw the same stories being told over and over again that I grew bored and craved something new. That newness came from conflicts that shake up the usual flow of the story. Justice League Action understands this, and some of the clips they have push characters in really funny ways, even if they are simple. We have super heroes losing their powers or getting their memories wiped, in one hilarious instance Superman and Batman had to interrogate someone and Superman wanted to try playing bad cop while Batman played good cop. Then there was a time where the big three got trapped in the phantom zone and they had to haunt booster gold to clue him in on what to do to save them. All these situations got in the way of good classic super heroism, but they also turned out to be some of my favorite stories. Comics are unfortunately a very static medium. Long lasting character development is rare, death is impermanent, and the same super heroes are going to be recycled forever rather than new ones being made. With all that said I like it when writers find a way to put a twist on something old, even if its only for a moment, and I don't think these twists would be as impactful if it wasn't in such a non-changing story world.
Tbh, I adore how Oc keeps calling himself Superior Spider-Man after learning his lesson, to me it kinda feels kinda like while it's still his pride, it's now more a promise to strive after.
Can always count on you to upload at 10:14 PM. On a side note, I finished Ultimate Spider and am now on issue #19 of the regular earth-616 1962 Amazing Spider-Man comics.
I’m surprised that people initially hated Superior Spider-Man. I loved the idea and the parallel between the two characters are striking. That Mephisto ending was such a cop out though.
people hate the idea because we want to read about Peter Parker. they also marketed it like it was going to be permanent (at least as permanent as these things get). if I wanted to read an Ock focused story I'd read an Ock story. also Slott has a history of being an enormous twat when it comes to any criticism so that brings down expectations quite a bit.
@@TGPDrunknHick nobody hated it because they wanted to read Peter Parker. Miles Morales is a good example of this. They hated it because Peter Parker died in a brutal way, and insult to injury one of his most evil enemies stole his body, which is the most evil and destructive thing a villain could realistically do to their nemesis. Dan Slott got a lot of flack because of One More Day, and the fact that he himself openly disliked Peter Parker and constantly wanted to make him an irresponsible failure. That being said, Superior was 100% a passion project of Dan Slott's. It was imo the best thing he has ever written, and he immediately lost that good mojo once it ended. I feel like he genuinely enjoyed writing Superior Spider-Man, and when he came back to a new run of Amazing Spider-Man he just lost interest. Atleast that's how it reads.
God if I'm reading a comic book and Mephisto shows up I'm dropping it immediately. I will jump out the window before Mephisto can mind wipe my character development.
Really loved the original series. Really loved the following series where peter wasn't freaking poor for no reason and could actually help people on a larger scale...until it also had to return to "normal". Honestly, this character growth would have resulted in a very awesome character if the writers weren't forced to sitcom everything once their run was over.
Surperior Spider Man is still, to this day, my favorite comic. i used to be super into comics when I was a kid- since hten, i've moved on to become a based weabboo, but when I was actually capable of keeping track of thousands of comic plotlines, i adored Superior Spider-Man. I even went out and bought the whole series in the paperback collection because I adored it so much. I find myself relating to Otto's character arc a lot, and it's still one of my favorite stories in all of fiction. I've never heard of the second run before (probably happened after I dropped comics) but damn, I wish i didn't. Hearing that their excuse was to just... bring back Doc Ock is painful, as Superior Spider-Man is one of, if not my favorite incarnations of Spider-Man, and having him beat the green goblin on his own and coming into his own person instead of being a mimick of spider man would've been great. But alas, actually competent writing is no where to be found in Pedowood. Also, why do all the goblins in the first run of Superior look so fucking weird?
Marvel comic writers arent Hollywood writers, the actual writer of the comic was a good writer and just forced to end it badly due to editorial decision... and it is mighty weird of a weeb to point fingers at pedos, when that is literally half of all Japanese media lol
I REALLY need to read Slott's Spider-Man. I mostly read the J. Michael Strazynski run as a kid, but that was because a family friend was reading it and gave me the issues when he was done. Awesome work, Alex!
Earlier this year I re-read/caught up to all the 21st century Amazing Spider-Man comics (starting back from JMS's run). As much as there is stuff in the later Dan Slott era I heavily dislike (Slotts distain and lack of understanding of Peter Parker during the Parker Industries years is ROUGH and part of the reason I had to catch up with the last 5 years), Superior Spider-Man is the greatest addition to Spider-Man cannon, period. Having a character, who was the villain that was the perfect reflection of Peter for almost 50 years, go through the greatest face turn in comics history, is extremely satisfying and well earned. I mean just the balls to not just do a limited series, but REPLACE Amazing with that first Superior run for well over a year was completely unexpected. To go through all those Clone Conspiracy and Secret Empire shenanigans, to then get rid of Superior Spider-Man AGAIN (seemingly for reals this time) is the worst removal of a character from Spider-Man cannon, period. It makes no damn sense, after the end of Big Time and the first Superior run, no new Otto story is ever going to feel interesting ever again. It would be like if right now they reversed the last 10 years of stories with Harley Quinn and made her go back to acting the same as she was in Batman TAS. New characters can easily fill the role of "guy whose early life is similar to the hero, except they had bad parents, and is now a villain with a shared aspect of their motif". But no other character can fill the role of "guy whose early life is similar to the hero, except they had bad parents, and is now a villain with a shared aspect of their motif, was a core member of the hero's Rogues Gallery for 50 years of stories, then over the course of a 2 year story arc, became the most unique take of villain turned hero (in main continuity) in comics history". Every single time I see Otto on page again, no matter how fun it might be (like his inclusion in Devil's Reign), all I will be thinking is "okay, how is THIS going to lead into Superior coming back permanently?". Then when it inevitably doesn't happen, it leaves a impression so negative that I wish they stopped using the character entirely. Ironically the creation and masterful execution of Superior Spider-Man has ultimately ruined Doc Ock as the best Spider-Man villain, making me wait for the day corporate let's writers use the superior version of the character again. (Btw, if the issue is too many regularly used characters with Spider branding, literally just have Otto be a hero version of Superior Octopus. The Spider-Man powers are the least relevant thing about the character at this point. Plus the Spider-Man like suit, but with Ock arms is super neat!)
God, I loved Superior Spider-Man so much, especially the second run that delves even deeper into Otto's insecurities and it's a crime how it all ended. I think it'd have been possible to have Otto organically move back to villainy while still retaining a lot of what he learned as Superior Spider-Man, perhaps landing more in the anti-hero territory as an extremist who wants to protect but has ultimately given up on "everybody lives" because he doesn't have Peter's iron will. Perhaps this is superficial, but the main thing I miss about the "Superior" era of Otto is the proto-clone body that he ended up with and his stint as Superior Octopus. I think the dynamic between him and Peter was so much more interesting when Otto could bring a physical edge to it as well. I think they could've gone with something akin to the Sonic/Metal Sonic dichotomy in that series, where the faker is a statistically superior version of the original, but lacks that spark and je ne sais quoi that is needed to prevail, in this case being Peter's indomitable willpower. ... I just want Otto back, guys. I want *my* Otto back.
Superior Spider-Man (or more specifically Superior Octopus) is what got me back into comics. You can not underestimate how livid I was with how Superior Spider-Man (2019) ended.
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
The fear green goblin displayed when he heard Spider-Man crack a joke is such an iconic panel to me. Realizing that Peter is back and that he is so fucked.
Goblin: **gives a whole dramatic monologue about how he’s already won and the city is his**
Spider-Man: lol. lmao.
Goblin: 😱😡
@@halfmettlealchemist8076 hahaha
I'm not sure I interpreted that panel as a "afraid" face, but rather a mix of shock and anger.
Definitely one of my favorite comic book panels ever. Just shows how well Goblin really knows Spider-Man after all this time.
@@yoursonisold8743 I think there's a hint of fear in there as well: he can control Otto, he knows how he acts and that he always tries to do the most logical thing, so he can one-up him. But Peter? True, he can try to control Peter by using a loved one or an innocent bystander, but he doesn't know how his mind and his emotive side work as well as Otto's
My biggest issue with Superior Spider-man was how Peter’s life was completely screwed up after he got his body back. And the fact that literally nobody else figured out something was going on with him is ridiculous. They all just assumed he chose to become an arrogant jerk who talks like Octavius. I know the Avengers ran some tests (and still missed the fact Otto was in control), but they seriously couldn’t have called a telepath to take a quick look. And then there’s everyone else in Peter’s life not even questioning the sudden personality shift and just going along with it
Hahaha right... Dr Strange could had easily saw that
Good point. Superior Spiderman was a fun run, but now that you mention, it woulda been nice to have one or two people recognise it.
Yeah, you right.
In a world of body-snatchers, clones, dopplegangers and alien sleeper agent replacements, they were a little tooooo quick to acceptance.
Didn’t his exe Carly figure it out?
It's just goes on for too long for the number of people to not look into it
This gotta be the most anticipated comicbook video sequel of 2022 hands down
that is such a specific category so I have to agree with you
@@alexlennen you know, let's bump it up to 'most anticipated video sequel of the 21st century'
@@alexlennen bro, i love your videos. I started reading comics because of you. Its helping a lot with my english. Thank you bro
@@Onihimak I got you bro
@@FeeshUnofficial most anticipated sequel
My biggest issue with this arc is that not a single soul in the Marvel universe knew something was off.
I mean Peter tried to explain it later on, but it just sounded incredibly ridiculous to everyone. Which… you have to admit they’re not wrong to believe that.
Yeah man like professor X is literally an active member of this universe
@@benwasserman8223 Mind controllers and shapeshifters are everywhere
A few people suspected something was off during the run itself (Deadpool though he was less funny and agent venom probably figured there was a problem due to him being burned alive)
There literally had two people actively search for why Peter was acting weird.
My only problem with Superior Spider-Man is that every supporting character suffered from Plot Induced Stupidity. Like you said, Mary Jane somehow couldn't figure out that the love of her life was suddenly acting like a massive jackass to everyone. I still love this story tho.
Also the avengers for not realising how oddly he acted.
Even Peter called out how it seemed like the avengers were taking “stupid pills”.
Or Aunt May, who could figure out the Chameleon was pretending to be Peter. The kicker Chameleon actually acted like Peter unlike Otto.
Dan slott writing is like that.
They could have used that to up the tension to 11 and have a Death Note style cat-and-mouse thing where Mary Jane is trying to convince people but Otto manages to stay one step ahead thanks to Pete's memories. Instead he was basically just Otto in a Peter suit and everyone bought it, essentially no questions asked
To be completely fair. If your wife or other loved one started being an absolute asshole to everyone and you thought she was brain swapped by a villain, youd be the crazy/stupid one
I love how Mephisto has just become the ultimate herald of the writers rolling back spider-man's character development for no reason
Couldn’t have said it better myself. And now they did this to Peter and Otto both! They just won’t let them grow, won’t they?😂
Mephisto is the definitive "Reboot Spider-Man" button at this point
This must be why Spiderman is "An emissary from hell"
@@Boltscrap😂😂😂
At this rate, it's marvel's answer to DC's CRISIS rebooting events. oyvey
I think that Mephisto needs to get a life. Stalking and manipulating people into forgetting things and not having a kid is not a life.
Nah Big Red is clearly projecting, he can't get away from his ex wife and he hates his kids so he lives vicariously through other people
It ain’t much, but it’s honest work
He did get a life.
Specifically Peter's and Otto's.
@@TupocalypseShakur Mephisto is just Black Doom from the Shadow the Hedgehog Real-Time Fandub
He's a marriage counselor
God damn, the idea that a MARVEL writer would, in good conscience, recreate the circumstances of one of the most despised moments in comic history only makes sense with the theory Alex provided. It’s insane.
it's sad that this is your takeaway... instead of the literal and real death threats that the author had to deal with.
@@thomasneal9291 Hey what the hell, it goes without saying that death threats sent to writers because of fiction is just garbage human behaviour.
I was already aware of the shit the writers for for One more day it’s pretty common knowledge if your a spider-man reader.
I was just surprised to hear something so despised as one more day basically happened again, I didn’t follow the Otto spin-off.
@@tomjames9681 there is an epilouge where he meets other versions of himself.
@@thomasneal9291 yknow this shit is actually global right? They even did this to Honkai Impact creator (an anime game) when there was an event that made all the girls wear bunny suits lol and there was a legit fucking assassination attempt
@@spacecookiez5045 I think something similar happened with a Lady Thor writer no? I read something like assault or stalking on a blog post. Regardless, you’d think they were tampering with fissile material instead of comic material from the reactions some people have to them. I don’t think much of Lady Thor, but I still respect it and it’s creators. Fans can be crazy.
Man, superior Spider-Man was a really good comic run. I love how Otto grew major respect for Peter after taking over his body. You get to see the subtle character growth that Otto has and it also makes you think if Otto is the better Spider-Man. The moment where Peter makes Otto hesitate during the girl’s surgery makes you second guess peters moral. The end where Otto even gives up his body to stop Norman shows the immense amount of character development that he went through in this run.
But then they proceed to revive him and delete all that development from existence..
@@Hellyeahray21 regression if you ask me
@@Hellyeahray21 comic books in a nutshell. Or more specifically, the Big Two in a nutshell. We're pretty much never gonna get a satisfying conclusion to anything in marvel or DC
@@chaddaddywarden4349 My theory is that this is one of the reasons to why mangas are starting to surpass comics in sales (west), besides most new writters sucking and stories trying to be relatable to younger audience, but failing and being just cringe.
@@Another_Hibiki this is why I greatly prefer self-contained stories that have nothing to do with multiverse BS or crossovers or anything else, just a story that focuses on one single hero. Imo marvel/DC's elseworlds stories are often their best works by far, plus when's the last time we had a proper self-contained solo MCU movie? Bc I can't recall the last time we had anything that didn't contain other characters or reminding the audience that its a cinematic universe. 10 years from now nobody will remember Black Widow 2020 or Shang-Chi or Eternals but u bet ppl will still remember TDK and Spider-Man 2002
I love this sort of "Walk a mile in their shoes" kind of character development. Force a character to realize just how and why a certain person behaves by shoving them in their body and they can learn a lot.
Alex, if you're a huge fan of Superior Spider-Man, I highly recommend reading Superior Four, which focuses on Otto teaming up with various versions of himself, and he goes through a journey where he learns to move on from being Spider-Man, but also a villain, and decides to try helping others as Otto Octavius, for me it's basically an epilogue to last Superior Spider-Man run
Is this the devil's reign tie in or was there a full series of it?
@@apersonwhomayormaynotexist9868 The Devil's Reign one
A yeah the were he becomes a villain again again and repeat the plot of Loki
The superior Spiderman comment made me so mad tho
It has a 2.7 on goodreads so...
you gotta love that when true spidey cracks a joke at goblin, he immediately knows who he's actually facing
I absolutely adore the original Superior Spider-Man run. It was the first comic run I ever fully collected. Gonna be honest: I knew that Otto ended up coming back eventually but had no idea they One More Day'd him.... That really really sucks :'(
Spidey's editorial staff be like: "Wow, that's a pretty cool status quo change you've got there. Be a real shame if someone were to retroactively undo it in the shittiest way possible"
@@halfmettlealchemist8076
Tbh a lot of these "interesting changes" were screw-ups done by someone who only thinks of playing with a big character, a cool idea and terrible execution that damages a lot of the characters' stories in favor of a bizarre new fantasy, so someone would come up later and undo that as a way to fix everything. That's what happened with Ben Reilly, with One More Day, with Miles Morales, with Dark Reign, and so on.
It's not a matter of "oh but this was a good run and that was a bad run", there's no such thing when you're working with this stuff. If it exists, it can be undone and redone, that's what made a lot of fanfavorite characters to come back and stories to exist, so it's really difficult to tell what was a good or a bad decision by an editor. What really matters is "oh here's a new thing, do you like it? Maybe it will come back later and you'll get more of it. Oh you don't like it? Well don't worry, it's only gonna last for a while, and you won't have to read it if you want to keep up with the main universe", so everybody can have their cake and eat it too at some point.
In terms of 'Superior Spider-Man', at the same time there were pros, there were also a lot of cons. Peter Parker is highly beloved so any attempts at trying to tarnish his character by making him seem 'evil' is a terrible idea, with the only salvation being that he's only seen as the better character because Otto will always be a villain, which might seem interesting, but it's actually dumb when you realize you're literally just trying to make the hero look bad when the villain will obviously always be the worst.
At the end, the only thing that saved these crazy ideas was the multiverse, because that's where the writers are not limited by the main timeline, they can just write whatever they want and give as much as readers want. I certainly would read a story where Otto Octavius had spider powers and that's it, just him, no Peter except for being a background character.
You do know that there is an epilouge story where he meets other versions of himself.
@@radrno7 funny you should say mulitverse..... there's a story that serves as an epilouge to the run where he meets other versions of himself.
@@radrno7
Main timeline is fucking boring, you marvel fanboy, nothing ever changes, the status quo is always the same, what a fucking boring story, this is why less and less people buy comics from the west.
16:36 this is one of my favorite comicbook moments of all time, just the joke, reaction and realization with the "It's you." is so good.
I want it on film so bad
Spider-Man’s original comic was the first comic book I ever read. I’m loving how your videos are introducing me to these modern Spidey storylines
The Superior run was one of my favorites. My only problem with it was that I disliked Marvel killing off Otto, then bringing him back as a villain like if none of this mattered.
Yeah one of the worst things about the comic book medium is that they’re almost always forced to return to the status quo somehow and it just makes certain phenomenal storylines feel pointless
You’ve done this storyline a huge justice; I never get tired hearing about this arc. Not only the metamorphosis Doc Ock goes through but also the lasting changes that occur in Peter Parker’s life and relationships.
Great work as always Alex
I hope more videos on this run happen thanks to Alex. Lets show marvel how much we love this character arc
Two things I hated about the initial run of Superior.
#1. The Green Goblin didn't turn out to be little Normie Osborn in some kind of adult exosuit or something. I thought that's where Slott was headed, what with Otto's soft spot for children continuously being established. And then his final baddie is a child- the dramatic irony! But nope, it's Norman AGAIN, with some weird backwards twist that he just had a different face under his mask.
#2. Peter wasn't more passionately ticked off about the whole thing and gave Otto a pass after he encountered him again. I feel like the Peter I grew up reading would have lunged for Otto the second he saw him again in Spider-Verse, then grudgingly been talked down and forced to work with him. But nope, he's so damned meek about the whole thing and even praises and forgives Otto eventually. This was an aspect of Peter (his temper) that Slott never really understood or got right.
2 is valid but why would you think 1 would be a thing that happened ever???? Is norman being a kid like something that’s happened before
@@cashmoneykal I was referring to Norman's grandson Normie. Harry's son.
I returned to reading the comics when Peter was back in control, and I kinda enjoyed how he went around to mend his broken relationships with The Avengers, Black Cat, Mary Jane and his other super hero friends.
I think was an enjoyable experience, if I could say myself, see how of a peacemaker Peter Parker is, and how his humanity drew people back to him.
Did "mending his broken relationships" include any of those people apologizing to Peter for never even suspecting that he'd been bodyjacked and replaced by an imposter? Because I feel like the entire superhuman community kind of dropped the ball hard during this story arc, you'd think they'd all be on guard about this kind of thing happening after the Secret Invasion.
@@AlteredNova04 Well they didn't. And I'm still salty about it.
@@AlteredNova04
Honestly the fact that MJ and Aunt May especially didn't realize anything was wrong, and that Slott had MJ get mad at Peter at the end of it still pisses me off
@@mikemorro140 consider that some got so pissed off they wrote literal death threats to the author. if you are THAT pissed off about a damn COMIC? you have issues to deal with. serious issues.
@@thomasneal9291
Ok
Superior Spiderman is one of my FAVORITE Spiderman stories, EVER; tied with Kraven's Last Hunt. It was such a nice take on Spidey, and it is incredibly amusing to see how Octo's ego and distorted notion of heroism plays through the series. Even during his "Superior Octopus" phase he was still a very interesting character. A real shame the writers had to undo everything he did just for a cheap "Return of Doctor Octopus".
Fully agree, it was actually one of the first few comics I read in middle school from the public library near my home. Completely blew me away
i'm fucking crying this is the first time I'm hearing about otto making a deal with Mephisto. I could only imagine reading the comic day one and realize THEY'RE FUCKING DOING IT AGAIN.
There is an epilouge comic where he meets other versions od himself and does learn another lesson and possible way to help people.
Every time comics gives me something to love, they remind me that we can't keep nice things.
Favorite alternate Spiderman, such an interesting development for Spiderman and Otto. I think it would've been so great if they followed through with Otto staying Spiderman with Peter being completely dead. It was enough that he already implanted his memories into Otto that nearly combined the two.
It's mainline tho
In an alternate world that would be awesome but permakilling Peter would suck in the main comics
@@gloriousporpoise9731 It shouldn't have taken place in the canon 616 universe to begin with. It just makes it obvious that Peter will come back.
@@tremel7336 that Is true but I think if marvel didn't hate development then it being in 616 would be awesome because lf the effects it has on Peter.
@@gloriousporpoise9731 of course, but it's still a lil breath of fresh air for the character, I think it's like in the 90s when they used to have so many twists to the mainline. Just a lil fun imo.
It might be ironic, but Superior Spiderman was what got me into spiderman. It might have been because I was a stupid teen and thought this run was cool because of the blood and violence, but I also remembering crying at issue no. 30, when Otto begged Peter to save Anna Maria. And this was also what got me into spider verse. God I have so much nostalgia for this run.
Me too. I remember I was just a kid when I found out that Spider-Man swapped minds with Octavius and was brutally killed by him. The violence shocked my little kid brain.
Good stuff bro. I'm really glad you talked about the fact that Marvel completely erased all that character development that Otto had. Spencer tried to restore as much of that as possible, but as usual, Spider-Man editorial stepped and decided, "no, no I don't think I will."
That part is just a theory. Also there is a story that does serves as an epilouge to it where meets other versions of himself.
?
This Saga along with the Sam Rami films and Spectacular Spiderman made me truly love Otto as a character. If put in the right situation, he really is capable of change
I love this arc so much, i appreciate it taking a new approach as a character study of Otto and Peter individually.
I know it’s a bit rough around the edges at times but it’s still one of my favorite comic runs of all time. The premise is just so great, and the twists and events are genuinely shocking upon a first read. Great read.
I can't wait until we switch brains and I become the Superior Lennen.
W
Damn
You've summed up my love and thoughts on this series, and my frustrations with Otto's growth being undone. Far better than how I could've worded it. I wish Superior Spider-Man would get another chance, whether it be through a comic set in an alternate universe, or a video game adaptation. I don't want Superior Spider-Man to be remembered as 'that time where dock ock took over Spidey's body for a brief period of time' that gets barley referenced, I want it to be remembered as Otto's redemption arc, and for him to become as much a beloved anti-hero as Eddie Brock. If enough people show support for him, maybe Superior Spider-Man might return, and get the respect it needs. Or, perhaps with No Way Home's success, we'll see Otto continue his redemption arc, even without being a Spider-Man.
Funny you should say that last part. Because it turns out there is an epilouge arc where he meets other versions of himself and learns rest maybe he can help people as who he is.
@@disneyboy3030 Oh please let that stick. Give Otto the Venom treatment and have him turn into a hero/anti hero.
Yeah I've learned that no change is ever permanent in comics
Used to not mind it, but it's one of the reasons that I switched to manga
I’ve never read a single issue of superior Spider-Man and even I’m upset at that ending. Great video as always.
Honestly
If it makes you feel better there is an epilouge where he learns one more lesson after meeting other versions of himself.
@@disneyboy3030 link pls
If you already don't read Spider-Man comics, you are very lucky
Ever since Superior ended, every run up to Spencer was legit ass, and after Spencer left its ass again
If you do actively read Spider-Man comics, Superior is your last chance to enjoy the character 🤣
This reminds me a lot of the Azreal Arc. They both use the most popular character of the publishers, they both have the main hero get sidelined for a more brutal replacement complete with a new more advanced and deadly suit, they both end with the replacement realizing they aren’t cut out for the role. I mean they even both somehow spawned a short lived solo series of their respective “replacement” characters.
They both definitely have their own qualities. The Azreal arc is a critique on the hyper-violent heroes of the 90s and why replacing batman or changing him to be more alike them is a terrible idea. The superior Spider-Man arc is more so a character study of doc oc.
- Oh shit, we wrote ourselves into an amazing situation.
- I know a guy that can fix it
- Wait no ...
*Calls Mephisto*
Points to multverse epilouge.
@@disneyboy3030
Stop doing that as if it exsuses all the garbage they did, you f$cking marvel fanboy.
Man, I really liked the first Superior Spider-Man run. After reading the second volume where he goes back to full-on Doc Ock, that was honestly a big part in my decision to just stop reading new comics. I've never seen any genre or medium more hell-bent on being as stagnant as possible.
especially spider-man out of all of them. it's the fucking executives at marvel who think peter always needs to be relatable and stuff.
I swear, the entire comics industry is on a suicide course with the power of idiotic ideas alone.
That's why Manga is way better than comics. No matter how good character development happens on comics, everything will eventually be rebooted and nothing really matters at all.
the original superior spiderman run has a special place in my heart cause i read it when i was new to comics and had to wait for my mom to finish work after school before going home. it really did move me and made me love spiderman so much more and thats why hearing what happened in the follow up run is so bitter. marvel and dc really struggle with character development.
Otto flipped the Batman saying. He was either gonna die a villain but he loved long enough to see himself become a hero
This was one of my first spider man arcs getting into the comics for the first time. loved the costume and the story
I loved the Superior Spider-Man. Otto's fall in the original run was done great. He was getting the comeuppance he deserved, but as readers, we had seen how much he had grown. His sacrifice was tragic because we knew he wasn't the same psychopath as before.
His return was done poorly, and his second fall was done even worse. The idea that the status quo is god really hurt, since Otto had really changed as a character.
It reminds me of Marvel's utter horror of letting someone other than Eddie be Venom
Thank goodness! I've been missing some good Alex Lennen content.
This run is so underrated. Probably my favorite Spider-man moment of all time is when Peter is finally back in control and runs into Green Goblin, hits him with a quip and Norman, who could tell that it wasn't really Peter before, makes a face like the Wicked Witch and just screams "It's You!"
it's always a good day when Alex uploads and we really appreciate your work man.
I also really enjoyed "Superior Spider-Man" preferably vol 2 from 2019.
This is one of my favorite channels currently. It's so obvious how much you love spiderman and it shows in your work. My opinion on the character has genuinely changed because of you.
Everytime you post I pray it's over an hour long because I love your discussions. Doesn't make this video any worse. I just always want more!
I've never really read many comic books, but this is one of the rare channels that can cover a story in a compelling way while letting someone like me in on all of the small details and nudges that I would otherwise miss. Thanks for making it, and subscribed!
They could’ve easily let this version of Otto live on and just have a clone or something resume his villany
Someone should write a letter about that. But I should mention there is an epilouge mini series.
Of course they can't do that, it would make too much sense!
I loved this story. Met Dan Slott at a con years ago and I remember talking about the idea with him and it was nice cause he seemed excited to tell this story.
I’ve always loved Superior Spider-Man. It was very a creative and interesting way to create an alternate Spider-Man and explore the character of Otto Octavius. I’ve always wanted to see this adapted in media (I know that it was adapted in Marvel’s Spider-Man 2017 but it was so short and I despise that show) like maybe a Spiderverse sequel? Before I forget, I loved your video. I learned things about The Superior Spider-Man I didn’t know before like how he returned but then got the ONE MORE DAY treatment. So sad 😞
There is an epilouge where he meets multiple versions of himself and dies learn one more lesson.
@@disneyboy3030 intriguing 🧐
@@Zekrel that is that he could help people as Otto Octavious.
@@disneyboy3030 😳
it seems incredibly likely that one of the Insomniac games will adapt it. Otto's situation at the end of that game, his mind sharp but his body decaying in the raft, while Peter runs around in a suit that otto helped design, feels very much like the setup for superior
This is my favorite Spide-Man comic. Slott gets WAY too much hate
Facts!!! It gets a lot of Flack but it’s personally one of my favorite stories.
Slott is very good at certain characters. Not so much with some others. But that's totally fair.
Never heard of this Spide-Man, is it the new spiderman?
I'm glad you uploaded alex. I've been having a rough week. Me my parents are tested positive for covid so I'm stuck home for awhile, so I'm glad I have your video for a comfort watch.
Holy crap the premise of getting Freaky Friday'd, dying in the other person's body, only to wake up years later after the other person has been joyriding around in your body for decades and has completely changed your life is terrifying.
Mr. Bean vs Superman might be on hold, but this essay is truly amazing and honestly, any alex lennen video is a great one
The first volume of superior spider man had two of the best side books written. The first the Superior foes of spider man and the second superior spider man team up which really did a great job of showing off ock as spider man and how his past life and his time as a villian really effected the hero role like chilling through an issue with the also now good guy magneto or having to work the man that had killed him in the past. The book also ended with a much better send off to ock's time on the pages if there ever was a chance for permanence to it
Superior Spiderman, Hell yeah.
Great video! Though I want to note that whenever you say "this isn't groundbreaking" I get confused because there's no reason for it to be groundbreaking. The same stories have been told hundreds of times, comics or otherwise, and I think what makes stories like this one special is how well they write them. This storyline forces you to watch Peter Parker die in a battle of wills and has you sit with that for multiple arcs, just so it can hit you with "No, good will CAN and DOES prevail! This is Spider Man we're talking about!" I personally really enjoy when a story is just a powerful version of an idea that's been done, because refinement allows for good ideas to be expanded upon.
I'm so happy you made a vid highlighting one of the best and underrated Spiderman stories. I always found the concept for Superior Spiderman so fascinating and was hooked. Tho I never knew how it ended... what a pleasant slap to the face ._. Great vid btw 👌👌👌
My first comic run ever and to this date still one of my favourites!
The conclusion to the massacre-storyline is still giving me chills when I think about it
Awesome video as always. That scene when Green Gobin sees that Peter Parker is back is great.
Surprising that none noticed the extreme change in Peter's character from the closest of his.
I love that "Printing their hate mail with no comments" thing, it's genuinely really funny to me. Love that, really does give a "We do not care lol" vibe
I wonder how you would feel if YOU got death threats every day? trust me. you have no clue.
@@thomasneal9291 ???
Ok but printing the hate mail you're getting has gotta be one of the biggest gigachad moves I've seen lol
Keep up the amazing work! Quality over quality! I love it!
IDK, I think it might have more quality than quality
“The rise, the fall, and the trip down the stairs”
I love this story so much, can't wait to see your perspective on it.
It's so annoying whenever comics end up reverting back to a status quo. You'd think that, with the FUCKING MULTIVERSE being such a big theme in comics (especially nowadays), that you could just let a comic run go the way the writers intended from day 1 without any outside forces trying to change them. There's millions of Spider-people in different runs and it's cool when you can explore vastly different concepts, always remembering that the originals will ALWAYS be there when you want to see/read them again.
Excellent video dude you got a subscriber out of me!
It's been worth the wait! Great video man.
This is pretty much the best way to explain about Superior Spider-Man. A story with mixed bag start later became really amazing. Then later got flushed down into the drain after its great end.
I’ve been waiting for this vid superior Spider-Man is such a cool character
When I was younger I didn't understand that conflict is what makes stories great. I used to hate episodes where super powers would be taken away, or random stuff would happen that would prevent a character from operating at peak efficiency.
It wasn't until I saw the same stories being told over and over again that I grew bored and craved something new. That newness came from conflicts that shake up the usual flow of the story.
Justice League Action understands this, and some of the clips they have push characters in really funny ways, even if they are simple. We have super heroes losing their powers or getting their memories wiped, in one hilarious instance Superman and Batman had to interrogate someone and Superman wanted to try playing bad cop while Batman played good cop. Then there was a time where the big three got trapped in the phantom zone and they had to haunt booster gold to clue him in on what to do to save them. All these situations got in the way of good classic super heroism, but they also turned out to be some of my favorite stories.
Comics are unfortunately a very static medium. Long lasting character development is rare, death is impermanent, and the same super heroes are going to be recycled forever rather than new ones being made. With all that said I like it when writers find a way to put a twist on something old, even if its only for a moment, and I don't think these twists would be as impactful if it wasn't in such a non-changing story world.
I'm so excited for the Spiderverse video and the future of your career as a spider-man analyst and historian
Tbh, I adore how Oc keeps calling himself Superior Spider-Man after learning his lesson, to me it kinda feels kinda like while it's still his pride, it's now more a promise to strive after.
u the reason i got back into comic vids thx man
This is such a cool concept that actually shakes up the main Spider-Man run and I can’t believe they undid it by making Otto a bad guy again.
This video slapped me way harder then my dad ever did.
Can tell you how many times I checked your channel for this, I absolutely love your videos :D
Can always count on you to upload at 10:14 PM. On a side note, I finished Ultimate Spider and am now on issue #19 of the regular earth-616 1962 Amazing Spider-Man comics.
Amazing how each video has more and more quality behind it. You might even say each is superior to the last.
I love the spider-man related videos, even though Ik the stories of these stories I still love revisiting them in your videos keep it up😁
Your recaps are really good, its easy to get lost in these when you haven’t read them, but you do a good job
I’m surprised that people initially hated Superior Spider-Man. I loved the idea and the parallel between the two characters are striking.
That Mephisto ending was such a cop out though.
I really wish he had at least stayed as AntiHero or even AntiVillain but nah, not doing anything interesting with him atm
people hate the idea because we want to read about Peter Parker. they also marketed it like it was going to be permanent (at least as permanent as these things get). if I wanted to read an Ock focused story I'd read an Ock story. also Slott has a history of being an enormous twat when it comes to any criticism so that brings down expectations quite a bit.
@@TGPDrunknHick nobody hated it because they wanted to read Peter Parker. Miles Morales is a good example of this. They hated it because Peter Parker died in a brutal way, and insult to injury one of his most evil enemies stole his body, which is the most evil and destructive thing a villain could realistically do to their nemesis.
Dan Slott got a lot of flack because of One More Day, and the fact that he himself openly disliked Peter Parker and constantly wanted to make him an irresponsible failure.
That being said, Superior was 100% a passion project of Dan Slott's. It was imo the best thing he has ever written, and he immediately lost that good mojo once it ended. I feel like he genuinely enjoyed writing Superior Spider-Man, and when he came back to a new run of Amazing Spider-Man he just lost interest. Atleast that's how it reads.
Finding your youtube channel during my spider-man obsession era was a blessing honestly
This truly is when Otto became Spider-Man. Bravo Slatt!
I could hear you talk about anything spiderman related all day.
God if I'm reading a comic book and Mephisto shows up I'm dropping it immediately. I will jump out the window before Mephisto can mind wipe my character development.
Really loved the original series. Really loved the following series where peter wasn't freaking poor for no reason and could actually help people on a larger scale...until it also had to return to "normal". Honestly, this character growth would have resulted in a very awesome character if the writers weren't forced to sitcom everything once their run was over.
i've been waiting for this one, i already know it's gonna be great!
Your Spider-Man videos are consistently top notch
Fun fact - Superior Spider-Man is the favourite Superhero comic of My Hero Academia author Kohei Horikoshi.
No wonder MHA has a terrible ending
alright, i wasn’t planning to subscribe but the fade in with the definition of “manipulation” made me laugh, you’ve earned my sub 😂
Surperior Spider Man is still, to this day, my favorite comic. i used to be super into comics when I was a kid- since hten, i've moved on to become a based weabboo, but when I was actually capable of keeping track of thousands of comic plotlines, i adored Superior Spider-Man. I even went out and bought the whole series in the paperback collection because I adored it so much. I find myself relating to Otto's character arc a lot, and it's still one of my favorite stories in all of fiction. I've never heard of the second run before (probably happened after I dropped comics) but damn, I wish i didn't. Hearing that their excuse was to just... bring back Doc Ock is painful, as Superior Spider-Man is one of, if not my favorite incarnations of Spider-Man, and having him beat the green goblin on his own and coming into his own person instead of being a mimick of spider man would've been great. But alas, actually competent writing is no where to be found in Pedowood.
Also, why do all the goblins in the first run of Superior look so fucking weird?
The second run didn't happen in my eyes.
"Based weeaboo" lol.
@@IR-Fan yes, what about it
Marvel comic writers arent Hollywood writers, the actual writer of the comic was a good writer and just forced to end it badly due to editorial decision... and it is mighty weird of a weeb to point fingers at pedos, when that is literally half of all Japanese media lol
“based weaboo” 🤓🤓
I REALLY need to read Slott's Spider-Man. I mostly read the J. Michael Strazynski run as a kid, but that was because a family friend was reading it and gave me the issues when he was done.
Awesome work, Alex!
This is my favorite Spider-Man of all time. And the that they got rid of him hurts me to my core
Earlier this year I re-read/caught up to all the 21st century Amazing Spider-Man comics (starting back from JMS's run). As much as there is stuff in the later Dan Slott era I heavily dislike (Slotts distain and lack of understanding of Peter Parker during the Parker Industries years is ROUGH and part of the reason I had to catch up with the last 5 years), Superior Spider-Man is the greatest addition to Spider-Man cannon, period.
Having a character, who was the villain that was the perfect reflection of Peter for almost 50 years, go through the greatest face turn in comics history, is extremely satisfying and well earned. I mean just the balls to not just do a limited series, but REPLACE Amazing with that first Superior run for well over a year was completely unexpected.
To go through all those Clone Conspiracy and Secret Empire shenanigans, to then get rid of Superior Spider-Man AGAIN (seemingly for reals this time) is the worst removal of a character from Spider-Man cannon, period.
It makes no damn sense, after the end of Big Time and the first Superior run, no new Otto story is ever going to feel interesting ever again. It would be like if right now they reversed the last 10 years of stories with Harley Quinn and made her go back to acting the same as she was in Batman TAS.
New characters can easily fill the role of "guy whose early life is similar to the hero, except they had bad parents, and is now a villain with a shared aspect of their motif". But no other character can fill the role of "guy whose early life is similar to the hero, except they had bad parents, and is now a villain with a shared aspect of their motif, was a core member of the hero's Rogues Gallery for 50 years of stories, then over the course of a 2 year story arc, became the most unique take of villain turned hero (in main continuity) in comics history".
Every single time I see Otto on page again, no matter how fun it might be (like his inclusion in Devil's Reign), all I will be thinking is "okay, how is THIS going to lead into Superior coming back permanently?". Then when it inevitably doesn't happen, it leaves a impression so negative that I wish they stopped using the character entirely. Ironically the creation and masterful execution of Superior Spider-Man has ultimately ruined Doc Ock as the best Spider-Man villain, making me wait for the day corporate let's writers use the superior version of the character again.
(Btw, if the issue is too many regularly used characters with Spider branding, literally just have Otto be a hero version of Superior Octopus. The Spider-Man powers are the least relevant thing about the character at this point. Plus the Spider-Man like suit, but with Ock arms is super neat!)
Alex I'm drunk as fuck, this is what I need right now
God, I loved Superior Spider-Man so much, especially the second run that delves even deeper into Otto's insecurities and it's a crime how it all ended. I think it'd have been possible to have Otto organically move back to villainy while still retaining a lot of what he learned as Superior Spider-Man, perhaps landing more in the anti-hero territory as an extremist who wants to protect but has ultimately given up on "everybody lives" because he doesn't have Peter's iron will.
Perhaps this is superficial, but the main thing I miss about the "Superior" era of Otto is the proto-clone body that he ended up with and his stint as Superior Octopus. I think the dynamic between him and Peter was so much more interesting when Otto could bring a physical edge to it as well. I think they could've gone with something akin to the Sonic/Metal Sonic dichotomy in that series, where the faker is a statistically superior version of the original, but lacks that spark and je ne sais quoi that is needed to prevail, in this case being Peter's indomitable willpower.
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I just want Otto back, guys. I want *my* Otto back.
Hey Alex, thank you for another great video, and another great day
Bro, super solid content. Better analysis has not been had. I love what your doing. Keep it up. Gonna share the crap out of this.
Superior Spider-Man (or more specifically Superior Octopus) is what got me back into comics. You can not underestimate how livid I was with how Superior Spider-Man (2019) ended.
I honestly would've loved it if Doc Ock wound up becoming Spider-man's frenemy in the same way that Venom did.
Goblin realizing that it’s Peter, not Otto, is one of the best moments
holy shit it's goro akechi
Superior Spider Man Is One Of The Most Darkest Spider Man Comics Of All Time 💀🔥