Battle of Flodden and James IV of Scotland: The King who Never Died
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 พ.ค. 2024
- In Battle of Flodden and James IV of Scotland: The King who Never Died, Scottish history tour guide, Bruce Fummey tells one of the saddest tales from Scotlands History of one of Scotland's greatest kings. Did King James IV of Scotland really die at the Battle of Flodden?
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Scotland History Tours is here for people who want to learn about Scottish history and get ideas for Scottish history tours. I try to make videos which tell you tales from Scotland's past and give you information about key dates in Scottish history and historical places to visit in Scotland. Not all videos are tales from Scotland's history, some of them are about men from Scotland's past or women from Scotland's past. Basically the people who made Scotland. From April 2020 onward I've tried to give ideas for historic days out in Scotland. Essentially these are days out in Scotland for adults who are interested in historical places to visit in Scotland.
As one of Scotland history tour guides people ask: Help me plan a Scottish holiday, or help me plan a Scottish vacation of your from the US. So from April 2020 I've tried to give a bit of history, but some places of interest in Scotland as well.
I'm convince that the only way to hear the convoluted history of Scotland is through your videos. Your appreciation for the absurd knows no bounds!
😂
I didn't know the Pope threatened to excommunicate James if he invaded England! That's serious!
All I'd heard about his body was that Catherine of Aragon wanted to send it to Henry VIII in France as a battle prize, but the Englishmen wouldn't allow it, so she sent his bloody surcoat instead, to make a banner out of. I don't know how that connects up with this story; I didn't realise there were questions about the identity of the body, but the iron belt is interesting.
Considering what would happen later after Henry tried to get his marriage to Catherine annulled, it's ironic that the Pope had Henry's back. But at the time, he and the Catholic Church were very tight. In fact, the title "Defender of the Faith" which all of Henry VIII's successors have borne was originally given to him by the Pope.
Beautiful story about James IV waiting and watching in the heavens to come and fight when Scotland needs him! Thank you for sharing!
Our pleasure!
I love sardonic Scottish humor.
Secrets 🤫
Dae ye ? Aye
@@duncanglen3452 lol😁
You do now 😉
I can't bring to mind
any other kind.☺️
Found you today Subscribed! You have a real gift in telling a story. I'll most likely never make it myself but I appreciate you & how you do this. I love my heritage/history. Thank you for your efforts :)
Thank you for a completely engaging historical tale. I am an American always fascinated by my Scottish ancestry. DNA genealogy proven 25% Cherokee Indian and 75% Scottish - part of my Scottish lineage descends from James 4th and his line. Thoroughly enjoy a well told historical story. You have done that Sir. My compliments.
I also descend from James IV, so I suppose this makes us distant cousins.
And your family settled in Appalachia? Welcome to the family. I'm from NC but moved to England.
@@elizabethkindred6806 --that portion of the family started out in Virginia (via the Crawford line) and eventually moved to Kentucky and then to Texas.
Watch Bruce's video entitled "Why Scottish and American People See History Differently?" It's very interesting.
That makes us distant cousins as well.
I'm descended from James 4ths youngest brother John Stewart. Though I'm kiwi.
Hi Bruce as commented in your D.N.A video I had an ancestor that fell at Flodden Field on 09/09/1513 His name was Sir John Moncrieff and was a direct ancestor of 19 generations I love your tour of Scottish history and it makes me proud to say that I am Scottish and that our spirit won't be broken I have always found that no mater which country I visited as soon as they know where I am from I am made welcome.
My family (Lyon) lost 3 sons at Flodden and their father had a heart attack and died upon news of their fate
I absolutely love your videos. I had no idea about Scotlands history and you bring the times alive. Thank you 🏴
Cheers
Fascinating. Thank you :)
Thanks for sharing!
The monuments are very beautiful and a another good video.
Another wonderful video. Thank you.
Great commentary, great story telling, great history of a great people.
Another great one, Bruce!
I loved this. Thank you.🌹🦋❤️☮️🇺🇸
Just came across your channel, thanks for the video. I've been doing my partners family history recently, I noticed that a fair few of her Scottish male ancestors died on the 9th of september 1513... Turns out they were among the dead of Flodden. We are going to the UK in a couple of years time (big europe trip, my ancestors are dutch/german), a long way away from little New Zealand. We will definitely be stopping at Flodden.
Again thanks for the video, I'll be checking out the rest of yours.
This may be of interest th-cam.com/video/0ugr6E--3Oo/w-d-xo.html
Brilliant!!!!!
outstanding presentation! I loved the whole video and want more please. Thank you for the story.
There are quite a few on the channel about James IV
Would he possibly removed the belt, to better fight and maneuver in battle, especially if he was leading from the front like a warrior king?
Enjoying and binging your content. Thank you
No
I like seeing the subbed number growing, keep up the great content lad!
This time next year...
I love your videos so much! They're educational and entertaining! You make me laugh! 🤣😎
I'm so glad!
I had zero interest in the history of Scotland and then one day you popped up on my feed and now I enjoy the history of Scotland thank you very much
😂😂
Wonderful narration! Great stories!!!
Thank you kindly!
Brilliant!
Thanks Rick
Great thanks
I just subscribed. This is awesome.
Thanks man
7th cousin 19x removed.. Thank you SO much for having this channel!!
Happy to help!
Any possibility you can revisit any locations after covid restrictions pass? I would be so fascinated to see them!!
Love your history telling!
😂😂There'll be other stories to tell
Brilliant, didn’t know the tale about his body
Stick with me, the school days keep coming
I've watched quite a lot of your videos, very well put together and presented, you should have your own TV series, good work keep it up.
Ah thank you
Great as always 👍
Thanks Scott
Excellent presentation 👍
Thanks
I had thought that the Battle of the Boyne and the subsequent Treaty of Limerick put an end to Jacobean aspirations. Obviously not, as on the basis of your talk, it simmered on for another 50 years or so. Alba Abu!
Just became a patreon, c’mon guys, coupla quid, his contents well worth, and his teaching of history is top notch,
You're ma man Alan
Hi Bruce ,I had ancestors that fought at flodden. Thanks for another brilliant story!
Many of my direct ancestors died in the battle at Flodden as well.
Me to. Commanders on both sides are related.
Very engaging presentation ! 'Dodgy' Dacre made me laugh 😂 I tend to think of Alexander Gordon as a smooth operator who was a bit full of himself, but he did have a good relationship with James IV and seems to have been loyal to the end...as well as also surviving the battle.
I think another comment mentioned Sir James 'the Good' Douglas as a possible future topic for a video and I'd second that, including a bit of a focus on the heroic attempt to take Robert the Bruce's heart to Jerusalem.
Was James 1V not rash in deciding to invade England because of an Alliance with France, which always seemed to do more for France than Scotland?
My 14th ggf through Robert Stewart 1st Earl of Orkney and James V 🏴 ♥
I walk the dog (not a euphemism) at the palace every now and then (through the grounds and round the water) - if you are someone who has an interest in the supernatural - then Linlithgow Palace is a must visit for you. Thanks again Bruce for another great vid.
My 15x great grandfather died in this battle.
His grandson died 34 years later, nearly to the day, in the battle of Pinkie.
Excellent presention. I never heard those aspects of the yarn.
Thank you!
Great story
Glad you enjoyed it
Great channel my friend
Thanks
Whaat? The 4 horsemen of the apocalypse came for him personally, we thought you sent them!! Nearly spit out my $5.00 glass of IPA from laughing!!
Another brilliant video, fascinating story! I'd like to think that he was seen looking hale and hearty on the road to Kelso, however I think that very unlikely. ,
Stop with the negative waves Moriarty
@@ScotlandHistoryTours Whoa! Was that a reference to Kelly's Heroes?
A truly GREAT Scot....
Brilliant presentation! (to what reason why would he live)?
Very interesting
I think so too!
Hi Bruce the your history telling is fantastic, are you planning to do video of James "the black" Douglas?
Thanks again for the fantastic videos
Of course
My maternal 15th great grandfather John Muirhead, third laird of Lauchope fought and died at Flodden on the side of King James
YAY, STORY TIME!!!
He was my 12 th great grandfather,
“Double hmmm” … 😂
I have no way of confirming how much of what you say is true, but you tell a great, believable story. I’m hooked on you channel. Please keep it up!
It's AAAAALL made up 😎
Another good video. I've visited Flooden field a few times. The castle of Etal which featured in the Flodden campaign has an interesting display of arms, armour and banners. By the way, I think "Home" is pronounced "Hume" (I know, daft like "Milngavie" etc.). Before you were born(?), Bruce, there was a British Prime Minister in the sixties called Alec Douglas-Home. It was pronounced "Douglas-Hume" and, later when his father died, he became the 14th Earl of Home ("Hume").
Alex Douglas. Was he no oor MP?
@@ScotlandHistoryTours Good chance.
[Edit: I've since been told he was Earl of Home but disclaimed the title to become PM]
@@ScotlandHistoryTours As John Lennon wrote, "Alex Doubtless Whom."
Family legend (Hume) tells us that James was taken from the field by the Humes and was thrown down the well at Hume Castle (near Greenlaw). It is said that James wore a large belt and kids used to look down the well to see if it would float up to the surface. Now the belt story makes more sense to me.
I can't imagine anyone is going to throw a body down their own well at a time when people depended on it for drinking water. Especially considering they would have had no shortage of land to bury it on.
@@nlwilson4892 Hume castle had long been unoccupied by that time. In the 19th century a body was found in the well with a chain around its waist.
@@brettschoolofpiping1339 Ah, well that is significant.
@@brettschoolofpiping1339 Wow!
Another great content video Bruce.
I thank you sir
What a mystery of the past that probably be solved after the dig the battlefield or a northern isle of scottland. love to learn more of the Callender house for a video idea
Aye, good point
Hey Bruce. Just recieved my mug and I'm over the moon with it. I have looked up the phrases on some Scottish Gaelic translation sites and I'm not getting a full translation. Could you tell me what it stands for completely in English? Another question, do you have merchandise that actually has your Scottish history tours logo on it? I would love to be able to promote and help your business over here in the states.
I hope you have a good day. Bye now. I don't' really have a logo for the channel. That's maybe something I need to think about
That boots on/boots off quip could have come oot aw a Monty Python film.
My adopted family are Scottish, Ive always wanted to know there country's history for so long. You're videos are amazing mate
You might be the only person that can unravel this.
I remember reading this decades at in one of the oldest periodicals in the world, The Scots Magazine.
I cannot remember all the details but it said that a skeleton with a chain round it's waist had been found in a castle in the East coast of Scotland. I would I could remember which one. It was a big and famous one.
James IV's wife, Queen Margaret and sister to Henry VIII did not marry for some time after James IV's death.
It said in the article that James IV entered battle as you describe in your video at the front, but it added that they had others dressed as the king at the front of the battle to avoid him being too obvious a target.
All dressed as the king, including the real king had knights on horseback around them.
The article said to distinguish the king the knights around the real king had feathers on top of their lances.
The article went on to say that the real king escaped the battlefield after the inevitable massacre and met a Scottish contingent sitting idle and had not been committed to battle.
James IV confronted them and they told him they are awaiting the outcome before investing in battle.
According to the article James IV accused them of cowardice and a rude servant of the commander of this contingent smashed James IV on his head with a heavy weapon. Thereafter that individual regularly gave an account to others along the lines of having taught the King of Scots a 'good lesson'.
The article said he survived the assault physically but not mentally. He was thereafter retarded and became a recluse in a castle until he died. His body then secreted behind bricks. His wife Queen Margaret unable to marry until he died.
As said, I read this article decades ago in the 1980s or early 1990's.
If you were able to persuade The Scots Magazine to look through their records it might provide a truly new insight if the second is found.
It could be problematic for a number of reasons including James V becoming King of his father was still alive. But I doubt it can damage the course of our history now.
I remember that article quite clearly. It also said the body of what was meant to be King James IV taken down to England was of no interest to Henry VIII and never given a burial as the to a king and his brother in law was because he knew it was one of the duplicates on the battlefield.
His sister Queen Margaret may have told him. I
Hope the above is useful and does not prove fruitless.
Please keep up your brilliant inspirational work!!!!!
Gordon
A few 'automatic 'spell corrects' kicked in above that I missed.
Sincere apologies.
I read the Queen Margaret married a year later, but it was in secret.
Another great video! Definitely my favourite King of Scotland, heard he sent a gypsy to the King of Denmark telling him he was an actual Prince of Egypt lol. May I ask what you're saying in Gaelic at the end my friend? :)
Haha! That's how I lure people into my shop. If you click through there's a translation. Don't worry you get the translation before any purchase www.scotlandhistorytours.co.uk/shop/
@@ScotlandHistoryTours lol, thank you!!
Well considering 'the Scots' are said to be descended from Queen Scotia buried in Ireland who herself was an Egyptian Princess , there is no reason to suggest that what James told the Gypsy to say to the King of Denmark is untrue... Remarkable ! That's the first time I have come across this , fascinating , thanks Jordan .
For more info on the Pharoah's Daughter , you can start here;
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotia%27s_Grave
Another Wow in the Prince of Egypt connection . The Mother of King James IV of Scotland was Margaret of Denmark - the daughter of Christian I, King of Denmark, Norway and Sweden . I wonder which side of the family James IV was talking about ? Possibly both !
@@johnjiv5790 SUPER interesting my friend!
OK, I like you! I was raised to believe I was Irish but after DNA I find I am about 60% + Scottish. Just now learning my real roots:-) Sorry II am really old. so not sure how much I can learn but I will try. Thank you for your channel and I am happy I found you.
We never stop learning😁
I'm from Linlithgow and aware of the story of the figure appearing to James in the kirk (chapel then). I wonder if he did adhere to the legend and didn't go and someone died in his place and he faded into exile?
👻
I would like to hear about “Ramsay of Islay”
My family (Lyon) lost 3 sons at Flodden
😥
“That’s how karma works” LOL!
😜
I'm not surprised that he tried to raise Scotlands profile in Europe as his mother was Danish and of his grandparents only one of them was Scottish.
If everything hinges on the iron belt, then one can ask, how can we be certain that belt was really always worn? And what if James put it aside on campaign or for the day of battle? (Possibly so his body, should he fall, would NOT be identified?) This all seems nebulous and beyond our ability to winkle out at this distance. Reminds me of the mystery of Constantine XI's body at the fall of Constantinople in 1453.
Then,too, perhaps it's possible that in the midst of the heated battle, the iron belt may have gotten dislodged from the king's waist and he wasn't able to retrieve it from the battlefield before his own death.
Is that: sir James Stewart of Preston?
There are other possible explanations for the belt not being there- maybe it didn't fit over James' armour. Maybe the soldiers who found him didn't realise the significance of it and threw it away because it was heavy and didn't look valuable. Maybe someone snuck it away to give to his family, as it was obviously very personal to him and intrinsically linked to his faith, but died before they could hand it over. All the same, it's a really interesting 'what if...' moment in history.
It's a mysteryyyyy...........👻
@@ScotlandHistoryTours Thanks again for making these videos. Always informative and entertaining. I've learned a lot already and have subscribed.
I visited Flodden whilst doing O Level History and stayed at Ford Castle.
On the land route vs. sea, could it be a requirement/privilege to allow subjects to observe the remains and pay final respects?
Either way, could it also be a way solidify his death in the minds of the masses?
True enough
Someone probably already corrected you since this was posted, but the Earls of Home pronounce their surname Hume (not Home). Likewise Home Castle, is Hume Castle etc. The former Prime Minister Alex Douglas-Home is a descendent.
Aye, there's always someone to correct me and you need to get in at launch to be first
@@ScotlandHistoryTours I'm working my way through your older gems, being first was never my forte 😂 To make it worse, there's streets in Coldstream named after them but pronounced Home not Hume. Go figure. Contrary bunch Coldstreamers.
My significant other is a Hume, she can be a bit sneaky at times.
This is just my musings on the belt missing..... If he emotionally felt that strong about to the belt.... Is it possible someone took it off while he was still in the process of dying to emotionally torment him? As to what they would have done with it afterwards I have no idea.
Not very likely, it was a personal penance and as such would not have been common knowledge.
More likely his corpse was robbed of anything valuable and the iron belt discarded, leaving nothing to identify him 🤔
Love the idea here, but where did James end up if he survived? I'd imagine just the body of a king fallen in battle would be worth a lot - maybe more than his jewelery and armour. An iron belt, though, would be pretty worthless, so may well have been discarded. Still, I do prefer your theory.
So was he rounding the turn, then ?
Ah, so now we know where one of Tolkein's blue wizards went!
I'm glad lord Hume lived I'm a desendent..
The good old days when you really could be carried off by the Four Horsemen.
I had 2 ancestors (a son and father) who died in this battle.
me too (Lyon family)
Henry the Eighth clearly was doing PR when he had James the fourth interred on his family's plot
👍
Twas a sad day for the clan of Muirhead. Many a good man died that day.
😪
@@ScotlandHistoryTours well many of the clan died as well as our clan chief.
And I do like your content.
Yes. He's waiting.
Okay. So James IV dies in the battle but for various reasons no one will or can identify the body. Someone finds a likely body and gets two people, who are now fearing for their lives, to identify a man they may never have met. They, obviously, say yes that is the body of James IV. And as soon as they can they are off back across the border on account of this urge they have not to be found when the truth is known.
Back in England someone who does know James IV sees the body and realising it is not that of James cut the head off so that no one else will find out. Meanwhile the real James IV's body is dumped in a pit dug to get the dead out of the way.
It's a damned shame that kings CONSIDERABLY worse than James IV received much better funerals and at LEAST got a grave. And the worst you can say about James was that he was not prudent in battle, but it's clear that he made a decision that he would much rather die in battle than for anybody else to THINK that he was a coward, as he heard many years from others that his father was. Has anybody at least given him a proper memorial?
Wow - fascinating. What happened to the body in Richmond? the whole story is so dodgy it must be real. He was a pretty good king otherwise and did not deserve such a grisly end. They play hard those boys from the Borders.
Aye, ye want tae see a local rugby Derby 😂🤣😂
James iv was into his alchemy and occult stuff … so he mastered how to become a force ghost. Mystery solved
Many years ago I read that on the day of the battle there were 3 others dressed exactly like the King in order to confuse the English making it more difficult for them to target him directly. After the battle the English didn't know which body was the king and chose the most likely one. Apparently James survived the battle and on the homeward journey came across the Homes . James is said have cast doubts on the homes courage, at this insult the head of the Homes is said to have struck the king a blow to which he never recovered. The story told that James was left in a vegative state and eventually died some 7 years later. It was considered more fitting that the people should believe he died in battle rather than was rendered paralysed by his own countrymen . The story went on that that was the reason the body was never interred in St Pauls because by this time the English Had heard the rumours that James had survived. Over a 140 years later it is said that Oliver Cromwell ordered a grave in Dunfermline Abbey exhumed, the skeletal remains were said to contain a long chain belt. Like I said it was many years ago that I read this story and unfortunately I can't remember the name of the book for reference purpose's
Sounds like Nigel Tranter, the original conspiracy theorist.
Excellent story teller though! 👍🏴
The reason we lossed at Flodden, is because it was an away game.
Described as the greatest Stuart monarch
They invaded , they died
Outnumbered the English.
Best artillery train in Europe
Good position .
Lost
billhooks better and that field unknown to both sides turned out to be a quagmire
Estimated that something like 2% of population of Scotland died in the hour or so of the battle, (not sure of figure }
@Gerald Freeman I smell a traitor!
Would these people have descendants today in America?
Very very interesting...
As I do my geneaology I holler.
Definitely
JFK addressed the Royal Scothish Black Watch as a fallen race then they became a part of his honor guard. By agreement with Jackie and Elizabeth II
He knew the writing was on the wall for the Stewart's. Since the death of his Brother John who had helped him against the treachery of his brother David who murdered John, and in turn executed David. Johns sons he had taken in under his care and lived with him.
Tell us about William the lion
th-cam.com/video/DE6TKkNyXQc/w-d-xo.html
I thought that he had been blown apart by a cannon.
Maybe it wasn't the bronze kind.
Are you thinking about James II?
@@ScotlandHistoryTours No, I had been thinking about James IV, but then, I wasn't there ar the time so I will not argue without knowledge.
Thanks for the correction.
An arrow wound to the jaw and two blows from a Bill did for James one partially severing his left hand and another to the throat .
Isn't a clue to what happened to James found on the coat of arms of the hereditary dukes of Norfolk? They include a miniature shield, yellow background with the red lion of Scotland, pierced in the throat by an arrow. Henry VIII's queen Catherine also sent him James' blood soaked tabard as proof of his death.
I am always a bit sus about stories of garments of penance being worn all the time. I wonder if James took it off to fight the battle? I think I’d object if I was Margaret Tudor if my husband came to bed in an iron belt.
I’m descended from James IV and Margaret Tudor
@Israel Hands no they’re dead ☠️