A Candid Conversation about Autism with Jill Escher & Christina Buttons
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ค. 2024
- Peter Boghossian, Christina Buttons, and Jill Escher have a candid conversation about autism. They explore key issues in autism research and community support, limited genetic findings despite extensive study, the potential of AI in risk detection and support automation, and the impact of prenatal hormone exposure on autism and gender development.
Jill notes that transgender identification is possibly linked to these factors. She stresses the need for nuanced understanding and empathy in autism discussions, emphasizing the field's complexity and unanswered questions.
Jill Escher is an autism research philanthropist though the Escher Fund for Autism.
Jill on X: x.com/JillEscher
Chapters
00:26 What is autism?
03:52 Autism prevalence
12:01 Severity of autism
19:20 Moral duty to support individuals with autism
24:55 Neurodiversity movement
29:42 Autism & diet, other manifestations
40:46 Asperger's
48:43 Risks as an autistic person
01:12:42 Spark Study
01:18:51 Autism and gender identity
01:28:04 Approaching autism with kindness
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#autism #aspergerssyndrome #neurodiversity #peterboghossian
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Hi Peter
I’m an autistic psychiatrist. Since my daughter was diagnosed with autism in 2020 I’ve pivoted my practice from predominantly substance abuse to diagnosis of autism in adults and treatment of co-occurring mental health conditions.
I was not identified as autistic until 2020 at age 50.
I’d like to respond to some of the questions you asked here.
@drpeterboghossian, seems you have added the wrong 'chapters' in the description.
It would have been good if you'd let Christina speak more, especially regarding her food issues. She did get talked over (as is often the case for autistics), and you asked the non-autistic person about an autistic person's experiences. More insights from Christina's first hand experience would have been the most interesting and valid. I also have food issues, partly because of GI problems, but it's not just because some foods feel safer, or that it's not being able to get off the same rigid routine, it's very much a sensory thing - probably just as much to do with texture as taste. Also, food is interconnected with emotions, and like many other autistics I find it difficult to identify and express emotions. Often I can identify if there's some underlying emotion by how much I'm eating and what I'm eating.
Also, although I'm no radical neurodiversity advocate, I do find it a bit disturbing that you laugh that anyone might not think that curing autism is something everyone would want. It's far more nuanced than that. For people who are not severly disabled, like Jill's son, it can come with some very positive attributes, such extreme focus (which has led to some amazing accomplishments by autistic people), attention to detail, passionate special interests, directness, and honesty. I definitely wouldn't want my autism to be cured, but I would like to live in a world with more understanding and support. (And where autistic people are asked about autistic experiences)
Food is critical. They should look into US's glyphosate use as a correlate with the autism rates (together with cancers, ADHD, other things)
Yes it would have been nice to hear more from Christina. Lived experience of Aspergers/ HFA would have been more valuable to the audience, some of who are probably unidentified as autistic, than descriptions of severe autism.
"I'm not radical neurodiversity advocate."
Uses "neurodivergent" unironically
Complains about a non autist having an opinion or knowledge about autistism. (Gatekeeping)
Can't take a joke
"Autists need to be seen!"
Doesn't want to be cured; because (admit it) it would take away a weird kind of tribalism high functioning autists have reguarding themselves amd their condition.
I think the autist doth protest too much.
It would be nice to hear more from Christina but I think she has a problem with commanding a social presence .. probably due to her anxiety and well autism
Abnormal brain development invitro? Low Fat Diets....lack of fat/cholesterol from the mother during gestation. For 40+ years, we have been pushed the "Food Pyramid". It's one thing, in how this "diet" affects the individual eating this way (over-weight/obese/morbidly obese rates increasing).....but then how does this diet affect a baby growing inside the mother eating this way. The brain is composed of 20% fat/cholesterol....but we've been waging a War on Fat/cholesterol. As Autism is increasing in Children, Alzheimer's/Dementia is also increasing. Fat....animal fat.....is NOT the enemy.
This may be a very important clue. I don't know. Pregnant mothers trying to maintain thinness?
You'd have to do a survey of all mother's diets to ascertain cause and effect. Without having that data, this is absolute conjecture and seems pretty unlikely since it seems to be genetic from Jill's stats.
Another issue is the increasingly universal consumption of a diet of grain-based foods which are heavy in traces of glyphosate. Glyphosate causes the tight junctions in the gut to be breached and can cross into the bloodstream. Glyphosate has been shown to substitute for the amino acid, glycine in protein synthesis. This causes misfolding of the protein - faulty functionality in enzymes, hormones and neurotransmitters as well as structural elements in cells and tissues. Glyphosate also kills beneficial bacteria in the gut microbiome, which will impact the gut-brain axis and availability of neurotransmitters in the brain.
The increase in the use of glyphosate maps exactly to the graph of the increase in autism. Stephanie Seneff talks about this.
@@Itsstuff7328Jill relies on correlation. Carnivores lose brain fog. Do the math
And all the vaccines they put into new born babies it's disgusting
This conversation was like going to a dinner party starving and being served only crudite. How disappointing to see people brought on claiming to be experts in autism and then at no point did they offer any scientific studies to prove their points. They kept saying “how scientific do you want me to be?” I’ll take anything because you’ve offered nothing. Why not bring on actual experts in autism? People like Dr. Adams at ASU university who has completed 3 MTT trials on autism and shown that in a subset of autism treating the gut treats the brain. Literally 50% of the severe autism cases in the study were shown after a year to not be on the spectrum. He also has an adult daughter with autism. Why not bring on Dr. Richard frye? An actual expert in Autism, cerebral folate deficiency and mitochondria, and the connection of the three. Oh, the RFK portion was the most hilarious. Claiming to have “debunked“ vaccination theories as a possible, cause is laughable. Please point to the studies where they did neurological exam on babies prevaccination and also post vaccination showing the results. We’ll wait. How do these individuals explain the fact that there are zero cases of autism in the Amish? It’s the only true control group. Again, we’ll wait. How do you explain the fact that post 1989 (when Reagan signed in an order for vaccine manufacturers to not be held responsible for any adverse reactions) the vaccination schedule exploded and in conjunction so has autism?Less than 10 vaccines for children in 1984 and now its 72, but of course there can be no connection in certain subsets of autism 😂. This conversation can only be summed up as incredibly San Francisco. Disappointed Peter. Bring in some meat and potatoes experts when discussing autism please.
You are on the money
you are at the wrong party...
I have Autism. I am on early retirement at 50. I was diagnosed at 46. I have two children. One has Autism. I am divorced. A lady comes by twice a week to help me learn to organize my life, win back the memory, that I lost from stress, fight my anxiety and live my life. When she starts talking about neurodiversity, I get annoyed (though I do not much show it, as I am very avers to conflict). It is not about norms or inclusion. It is about a large issue that my daughter and I have, for whatever reason. That cannot be solved by wokeism or normalisation. We need practical solutions and sometimes help. We are not normal.
Great talk. I am a fulltime carer/father of a severely autistic son (23). He has Kanner's and very similar to Jill's boy, although he is slightly verbal. His IQ cant be measured and he has the cognitive age of a 4 year old. I can totally relate to her frustration with the language police and the radicals trying to hijack autism.
Regarding the fascination with trains. My son also loves Thomas the Tank Engine and The Wiggles. Simon Baron-Coen (Cambridge University) has a theory that trains run on very ordered routes (cant deviate of the tracks) and timetables. Also, the Thomas characters have very stationary facial gestures which makes it easier for autistic people to pick up on social cues. My son hates chaos. (Chaos enables anxiety) I think this is a universal for autism. Karl Friston has some great theories here. The Free Energy Principle and predictive coding could greatly explain why people with underdeveloped pre frontal cortex's have so much trouble with planning and chaos minimisation.
Cheers
Eloquent and informative. Thank you.🙏
I think you're spot on , order and predictability are calming for everyone but more evident in people with autism , I don't know if you saw this with foods having to be one texture or consistency, also clothing ( removing tags from clothes )
@@gravitheist5431 "removing tags from clothes" Yes! Also colour. He is obsessed by colours. Cheers ;)
This discussion was too disorganised. There is a lot that would benefit from greater exploration but I think it needs to be more separated and structured
To be fair to RFK Jr., he was approached by mothers of autistic children about this issue -- these mothers were convinced their children suffered vaccine injuries. He wants research into the cause/s of the autism upsurge, but research isn't being funded. He traces several things back to the beginning of the upsurge in a certain year, one of them being the herbicide RoundUp. He lists other possible causes, vaccine use only being one (its holding power is anecdotal). But what IS certain -- we desperately NEED proper unbiased (especially the money bias of Big Pharma) research.
Have you ever read the book "healing the symptoms known as autism" by Kerri Rivera?
Yes to RoundUp - active ingredient Glyphosate. Stephanie Seneff has done extensive reasoning on this too.
Vaccine injuries are a thing that most likely are connected to glyphosate and not the vaccine mechanism in itself.
Yes to RoundUp - active ingredient Glyphosate. Stephanie Seneff has done extensive reasoning on this too.
Vaccine injuries are a thing that most likely are connected to glyphosate and not the vaccine mechanism in itself.
Im sure studies have been done studying fully vaccinated children and completely unvaccinated children...
Autism IS a culture war issue. Not a huge one, like women or race or islam, but there is plenty of SJWism going around autism.
Autism IS the epidemic of our lifetime. At one point in the conversation, they speak about how much it costs to care for an individual on the spectrum. It’s a conversation that needs to be had. Because rates are rising so quickly and people only care about money so that might be the thing that wakes people up. When 1:2 people are diagnosed with autism, how are we going to pay for it? It’s absolutely unsustainable to continue this way.
@@snowbunny783
When I said it is not a huge culture war issue, I meant to express that the current woke zeitgeist does talk about it often, but it is not one of the main scourges, like the topic of LGBTQIAP+ or women or is/am.
@@snowbunny783 I don't think the rate is ever going to get to 1:2 and people who self identify as autistic on social media don't need the kind of full time caretaking that Jill's kids need. I think a large portion of the people who self identify as autistic in that way have merely had their brains rewired by excessive technology use. People aren't online all day because they have autism; it's _because_ they're online all day that they never developed healthy interpersonal skills, which results in them identifying with certain autistic traits.
@@Viral9 well with the rate going from 1:10,000 in the 80's to now 1:22 boys I most definitely believe it will hit 1:2 quicker than you think. not sure where you live, but CA is flooded with quite severe ASD cases and is only getting worse.
@@snowbunny783I just read a stat that said only 20% of people with autism are able to work a full time job.. is this accurate in your opinion?
My son is autistic and nonverbal. We had a very hard time with food when he was younger. He would only eat a few thing like hotdogs or peanut butter and jelly. He would he throw giant fits and empty everything out of the he fridge if we didn’t give it to him.
What I did get rid of all the food in the house except for a few things. Eggs and cereal for breakfast, chicken and rice for supper. Things like that. He didn’t eat at all for a day. Then he started eating. Over the next couple of months I slowly introduced new foods showed him how I prepared them.
He’s 17 now and he’ll eat just about anything.
In other words, your son was born chemically addicted to sugar.
Jusy think about the foods you listed and his reaction to not getting them.
Almost everything you listed is packed with concentrated sugar - hot dog buns, bread, jelly, rice cereal.
And, if you steo back and really think about it, didn't he behave exactly like an addict when he wasn't able to "get his hit"?
Sounds exactly like my brother who is an alcoholic. He loses his sh•t if he isn't able to get a drink when he feels like he "needs" it.
Sounds like my uncle who is a chain-smoker. If he doesn't get his nicotine fix when he wants it, he basically starts throwing a low-key fit.
Consider the possibility that your son's condition is essentially the sugar versions of "fetal alcohol syndrome" and "Neonatal Abstinence Syndrome" (NAS).
Many people don't truly realize that sugar is highly addictive. We have a sense that it is very attractive based on oir own experience, but we rarely make the connection that itvis addictive because the marketing around sugar is so effective.
Get him off the sugar.
In other words, get him off the dietary carbohydrates.
Look into Dr. Chris Palmer's work on this. He does research out of Harvard.
My psychiatrist keeps telling me I am a very high functioning person with autism. I cannot get her to explain what she means.
You’re not intellectually disabled alongside it.
Assume she isn't right and go from there.
And probably go to another psychiatrist, because if she can't explain that, what can she explain?
She went to a university that says genocide is good, men are women, that society deserves to be destroyed.. and they've dumbed everything down.
If she can't tell you, she's probably just parroting something she's heard and doesn't know what she is talking about...so.. she can't explain.
Look into Dr. Chris Palmer.
He has lots of content that will explain that you are probably mostly experiencing "low power" to your brain based on what you are eating.
In other words, you might not even be autistic.
@@etniesalpha I agree with the other comment find a psychiatrist who knows more about autism. Or a clinical psychologist who is trained to diagnose adults. Functioning labels are misleading. I’m a psychiatrist so I have “ functioned “ well enough to do all the training, but with very high levels of anxiety and needing to manage depression and burnout. I always knew I could not manage the patient numbers or the busy type of practice my colleagues do. I spent many years feeling inferior and internally judging myself. Getting a diagnosis at age 50, after my child’s diagnosis helped me to understand my limited capacity and let go of the comparisons. I see 9-12 people, between Tuesday and Thursday and have a 4 day weekend. It’s great! I don’t need to spend my down time just recovering from work. I have enough time to rest and recover and to do things I enjoy and spend some time on admin.
Get on an OCD expert! I loved the guest you had on recently who worked with people with OCD and mentioned how they were having intrusive thoughts worrying about being canceled. That was so cool, would love to have more OCD experts on!
For the past 50 yrs, the West has seen a sharp increase in not just autism, but also dementia, Alzheimers, cancer, diabetes, obesity and a host of other murky metabolic issues. BigPharma, the media, and the medical establishment refuse to address the one central issue that ALL of us deal with on a daily basis: WHAT WE EAT (ultra-processed foods, processed carbs, seed oils, and sugar). Until we return to a proper human diet, things are only going to get worse.
I assess for autism as a soon-to-be doctorate level psychologist. This discussion is overly focused on in-utero/prebirth autism. There are a distinct class of autism syndromes that occur around ages 1.5-3 in which children suddenly regress in terrible ways, which looks a lot more like potential damage from an environmental toxin. This can look like children who have attained language, control of urination and defecation, motor complexity etc. suddenly becoming losing those gains and resembling the “profoundly” autistic children that are described in this discussion. That area has NOT been “debunked” when it comes to vaccines, and people who argue that it has likely haven’t investigated the horrid quality of the studies and flagrant conflicts of interest within research teams that purport to have “debunked” the vaccine hypothesis. I think these women are fantastic, and I’m so glad they were on. There needs to be an extended “part 2” on regression-pattern autism.
Re clumsiness etc - there are a lot of crossovers in neurodiversities so dyspraxia is very common in autism. Also propioperception (the sense of where your body is in space) is one of the senses so can be afffected re sensory difficulties, either hypo or hyper
If this interview doesn't ONCE mention Glyphosate, I am surprised 👀
Please Peter, bring on Stephanie Seneff on your show 🔥
Former MIT and sharp as nails
Dr. Seneff is one the world's most intelligent people.
And also bring on Dr. Chris Palmer.
He is on the cutting-edge of research into how high blood sugar and insulin *_DIRECTLY_* causes neurological development and dysfunction.
Some of his case studies will absolutely blow your mind - remission of all kinds of phychiatric conditions.
And! I think it's much more likely that we should be looking for endocrine disrupters in relation to causation.
Interesting discussion, I didn’t realise our environment was such a big risk factor. I really enjoyed hearing Christina’s thoughts and experiences. It did seem like she was often talked over though, and sometimes I felt like there was more she wanted to say, but she wasn’t always given the time to do that. I hope you have Christina on again soon 🙂
Elevated blood glucose and insulin associated with carb-centric eating causes developmental derangement:
• Reduces sperm quality and motility
• Reduces egg quality
• Directly impairs fetal neurological development
• Impaired mitochondrial function
In other words, low-fat, carb-centric diets:
1) create nutritional (cholesterol) deficiencies
2) create glucose and insulin toxicity (hyperglycemia, hyperinsulinemia)
This is a *_MAJOR_* contributing factor in the development of autism.
If it happens in utero how is regression explained.
It is pretty much impossible to test the IQ of extreme outliers - be they very smart or the other way around.
37 IQ is around the 0.001334603th percentile.
32 IQ is around the 0.0002902834th percentile.
Once you are above 130 IQ or below 70 IQ psychometric testing rapidly becomes less and less reliable. In the 30s it is pretty much just a ballpark.
The most reliable psychometric testing also generally relies on progressive matrices (take the Raven test for example). I don't think that you can administer such a test to someone so low performing. In fact, giving it a quick thought, I can't even fathom what kind of test you would administer to such a person, especially because you would also need to administer this special test to a huge number of other people from the general population to be able to grade the test and see where the test taker is. I am inclined to think that no such test exists, and anyone you classify to be in the 30s you at best do it as an educated ballpark guess.
I wonder if IQ that low even allows understanding the idea of a test and participation?
Interesting conversation.
Women in the UK have not, as far as I am aware, been injected with synthetic hormones during pregnancy (I certainly wasn’t 32 and 28 years ago and nobody has since) yet the trans “thing” has increased here in recent years - it does seem to affect the middle classes / university going individuals more than other socioeconomic groups which is most interesting.
My autistic sister is somewhat the opposite of Jill’s kids. Not only verbal, but conversational, capable of complex thought (though her interests are very narrow and often age-inappropriate). Can go places independently and even work a menial job (sort of). However, she does have those motor challenges, especially fine motor, and sensory issues too. The most debilitating thing for my sister is in my opinion the complete emotional dysregulation that makes social interaction borderline impossible. That and no executive function to speak of are the biggest obstacles in her life. I also worry for her because she can superficially seem more functional than she actually is.
I have a moral duty to provide for myself while society takes and takes from me so much I can’t make a “living”. 48 years old. Civil engineer. Never been anywhere. No kids. How much longer do I have to do this for? Death will be a welcome relief. Living is hard.
Hang on in there mate, I'm a 45yr old autistic male struggling with substance use disorder, I'm homeless and unemployed and following a recent overdose my whole family (bar my amazing mum and dad) have disowned and are embarrassed of me.
I still refuse to give up, I just will not and the fact that my sisters and brothers despise me just gives me more fuel to keep on fighting for life worth living.
You do matter mate and people do care I promise you, I have never met you but I care about you and I urge you to keep on fighting for the life you deserve mate, please hang on in there things will get better I promise ❤
@@nickbeaucage4711 why have you never been anywhere? Can you take a trip?
34:35 stomach upsets, bad guts are common with autistics. Yes the shock of an unusual flavour and especially textures puts many off varied foods, my body tells me what I can eat and not have bad guts. They sre linking autism to gut microbiome now, remember 90% of serotonin is produced in the gut and the vagus nerve is 'significant'.
Yeah. I've seen a lot of people misdiagnosed with autism because they behaved in a very autistic way about food - even though they had no other reason for the diagnosis. I know people like this that have a very, pretty much unbeatable feeling of disgust towards most types of food, such as all plant based food (except potato and wheat, lol).
I have OCD and have heard the vagus nerve/microbiome thing as well, which would make sense because i also have gastro issues
Very important subjects raised, including prenatal exposures!! Thank you!!
excellent questions from peter, questions everyone wants to ask but is afraid. (financial burden of autism, worth of life)
Such a fascinating topic. Over the shutdowns of 2020 I took up speed solving Rubik’s cubes as a hobby and learned about Max Park - a severely autistic individual whose mother introduced him to cubing as a child. Max is now a world record holder who consistently solves under 5 seconds. Incredible. I can see how the assumption that all persons with autism have some kind of savant ability can be counterproductive, but I find his case particularly fascinating.
I did a lot of clubbing in the 90s, learnt to talk more normally to people... 1:07:10
Yeah same here mate, for me mdma played a massive part in increasing my sociability, paired with being in a club with upbeat music and ecstaticly happy people.
Happy days and fond memories 🎉
Jill must have the patience of a saint.
52:37 I just found that one of my oldest friends is actually a sadist who was enjoying torturing me the entire time. I studied psychology to learn about people.
Did you study psychology to better predict peoples behaviour ?
@@gravitheist5431 yes I did, but then I found in certain ways I could consciously observe people better than many because it wasn't instinctual. I think a lot of ASD "super powers" are this form of over compensation.
@@nicoledickens2366 I think people have a lot of nonsense and virtue signal and put up a front and lie etc by studying psychology it's simplifies interacting with people by cutting out a lot of the bull and see ideological possession and predictable patterns of behaviour , plus it's very interesting how brains work
@@gravitheist5431 totally true, I have a tin hat theory of leadership, they're either psychopaths, narcissists, or autistic. The first two seek leadership, the third gets things done so they get given more work-and like it. I see the third also in the playgrounds, my kids will play with an object in a weird way then all the other kids copy it because it's also cool.
Very interesting, and very important topic. Let's dig in.
The 'trans' social contagion explosion correlates perfectly with the rise in social media.
I have OCD and pretty much all my friends have Asperger’s, and I am absolutely loving this video!
I had no idea woke people were trying to cancel Asperger’s? One of my friends was diagnosed with it and strongly identifies with it, so when it got lumped together with autism, she felt like she was being erased.
Yeah they hate the terminology because of some of the activities and associations of the Hans Asperger fella
How does one “strongly identify” with bad neuro wiring all lumped together as “not syndrome” It’s a defect, not an exclusive club. I think it’s an excuse for being weird. Maybe try not being weird.
@@kitkakitteh Yeah she can get into a lot of woke identity stuff. I think it’s pretty weird too, but thought it was pretty crazy that something she of all people feels strongly about would be something woke people are trying to cancel
I didn't know it was Asperger's in particular , about 10 years ago they decided to call the whole thing ASD , I have more than one child with Autism , they were both diagnosed as " on the spectrum " with "ASD" and they are very different , one is non verbal and the other multiplies 3 digit numbers in his head for fun
@@kitkakitteh I think in this context it was meant as " presented strongly " but yeah woke ideology has focked up the word identify forever .Autism isn't something you decide to have . Elon Musk has Aspergers , should he stop being " weird " or " defective " ?
We do very much want to hear medicine and biology, science. That’s the tools we have to find answers.
Great and very interesting podcast, but would love more science on the topic!
Jill says there are two possibilities as to why the rates of autism are increasing - one, the rates are truly increasing, or two, we're just changing the diagnostic criteria to encompass a greater number of children. What about the fact that so many children, especially girls, were previously not identified, due to lack of awareness? I was diagnosed at 64 - it would have been glaringly obvious I would have thought, in a modern educational setting, that I should at least have had a formal assessment, but in the 60s, when I was at primary school, no-one was sent for assessment or diagnosed (in the UK), because there was absolutely no awareness among teachers and parents. Wouldn't raising awareness contribute significantly to the increasing rates of diagnosis?
This. I never see Jill differentiate between the comorbid presentations like intellectual disability just because her son is good looking. Meanwhile we have a history of people who were simply diagnosed as “retarded”, who now we know are autistic (there’s your increase). She assumes a level of awareness in the 60’s - 80’s that meant most kids at the low functioning end even got a decent assessment.
Meanwhile our whole family are ND of some type. Both kids ASD. I’ve never experienced anything like Jill described behaviourally with either of them. It’s simply not ubiquitous in ASD.
@@mumtrader I think Jill talks as if there is an assumption that learning disability is a feature of autism, whereas my understanding is that autism is not a learning disability, and that learning disability is seperate from autism, but is more common in autistic people. I also think the increase in overall rates of autism in children and adults would be magnified (maybe temporarily) by the number of people missed in childhood and diagnosed late, in addition to the increased number of children being picked up due to a greater understanding and awareness.
Maybe you're just an individual seeking to be medicalized, or youre entering a medicalized arena and their throwing sloppy tools at you.
Seems like you put words together just fine.
Everyone is different and special.
Here’s my “superpower.” I call it geoception or magnetoception.
I can sense magnetic north.
Nick Fury might knock on your door any moment to beg you to join the Avengers.
Are there online spaces where people go to affirm their own identifying into neurodivergence? I'm curious to observe and know what that looks like.
Yes, people identify as ASD or ADHD on twitter and to a lesser extent instagram. Reddit has communities of these people, too. I would guess tik tok as well but I don’t use that platform so I’m not sure how common it is. But trans and DID definitely trends on tik tok. Often self diagnosed. In fact to suggest they get formal diagnosis to confirm before immersing themselves in the idea that they have a disorder is considered taboo. In my opinion they use these spaces to play act their disordered fantasy.
It's classically described as caused by quackcines. Read the inserts to those poisons.
The Amish have no autism and have amazing raw milk.
Can someone explain to the difference between "severe autism" and "autism with intellectual disability"? Coz I don't think this conversation recognises that LOTS of autistic people don't have ID co-occuring. Just look at the huge numbers of women 30yo+ being diagnosed autistic later in life.
Autism is broken down into 3 levels, literally 1, 2 and 3. Level 1 would include Asperger's diagnoses such as Christina's and is (presumably) where you would fit. Level 3 would by all accounts be "severe" as it would encompass things such as nonverbal communication and the inability to complete everyday tasks. Jill noted that it was helpful when Asperger's was its own diagnosis because no one cites their "level" of autism, lumping so called "high-functioning" (low needs) and "low-functioning" (high needs) diagnoses together as if they are equivalent, which is what you are doing. You appear to be "owning" the label of "autistic" as if it represents your personal experience. It is not at all incorrect for Jill to associate intellectual disabilities with autism because it's true.
You might be better served by disassociating from communities and identity groups that require you to identify as an "autistic person" and instead view yourself as "a person who happens to have autism".
In fairness to Peter Singer, he believes animals should be treated extremely well, probably better than we treat low IQ humans in some cases.
He also advocates for post-birth abortion if I’m not mistaken. At the very least, my Uni bioethics textbook, which was edited by him, has articles which do advocate for infanticide.
Regarding Singer’s position on the severely disabled, I think it makes it clear how pernicious that “we” is. “We” should treat…no. This mother’s presumption that she should treat her child as her child is enough. No one else’s input is required.
Abilify helped my son SO MUCH! He became more focussed and present. It was great. I was terrified when he started it, but he is doing well on the Abilify combined with Metformin (to guard against weight gain/insulin resistance). My son also ate only buttered noodles when he was a child, and the smell of tuna fish or mustard made him burst into tears. he is much better about food now, though.
I've heard several times about acetaminophen use during pregnancy playing a causative role.
I remember when people attempted to cancel her about her son and her car. I’m the parent of a severely autistic adult son. I even live in San Jose but we’ve never met Jill. I am thankful for her work though.
How much of autism is bad parenting responsible for? The academy swept this under the rug several decades ago.
Bad parenting DOESNT produce Autism. Bad and greedy medical industrial complex attributes Autism where it is actually cognative behavioural
America has always been WAY BEHIND because they love labels and drugs. You dont even look at retained primitive reflexes because it does serve the medical industrial complex. Go check that out!!!! Eg Sally Goddard
Americans love Labels and Drugs. I cant watch anymore of this. Bet you wont talk about vaccinations either
I think not autism itself, but how well it is managed. An autistic kid who has a meltdown vs. an autistic kid who gets upset but has learned self control - both are more sensitive and emotionally reactive than the average human bean, but one has learned to manage it better, and probably due to the parent's help.
@@amyb.6368
There are almost certainly many levers parents can pull during gestation or early childhood in the child's environment that will affect neurological development.
Be it nutrition, essential micronutrients, such as beta-carotene or folic acid, or iodine, or the amount of sleep or noise the pregnant mother or the fetus gets, or contaminants, such lead or something, diseases mom gets during pregnancy, etc. etc.
I'm not intimately familiar with autism related research, but I'm sure there are politically correct roadblocks. Some of the relevant research will be haram, forbidden, taboo, because reasonable people will use it to minimize the chances of giving birth to autistic children.
Autistic adult here. Please recognise that autism and intellectual disability, whilst sometimes co-exist, are 2 separate conditions. Let's not conflate them.
Peter how do you still not know the difference between the symbols for euros and pounds 😂😂😂
anyone have crossover with EDS?
Christina is such a cool addition to your videos, I hope to see her again with you! 🖖
Thank you!
She says almost nothing. My partner was confused about why she was there.
I don’t think she was given enough space to talk, the other lady kept talking over her.
@@DylanYoung She's autistic. Her viewpoint was more valid and interesting than anyone elses. She should have been allowed to talk more - she was talked over a lot. If she's like me, and many other autistic people, she would have found it difficult to know where it was appropriate to speak up. Peter could have made it easier for her. I hope he does so if he has her on again.
@@DylanYoungTrue. But I've seen them in a previous video together, where it was a lot more engagement with Christina.
I'd be curious to know if there is a correlation between the rise of autism among the countries who follow the US vaccination schedules and those who don't. RFK Jr has piqued my curiosity in this.
"Do you have any thoughts on the term 'weaponized autism'?"
I give props.
34:55 every ASD person should at least try B6 holy crap- behavior chilled.
Great guest! Really liked how she didn't mind any question. I'd have liked though to hear whether Jill looked at those drugs her mother got as possible cause for her kids autism? She only brings it up all the way at the end and only in connection to that trans trend. Btw I don't think there really is a rise in trans people..only in those cloaking themselves in the latest " fashion".
Also..." autism started in the sixties?...Didn't Bettelheim run a clinic long before that..doing research into it?
I've noticed at my workplace that some of the young 20somethings are quite nonverbal (and I don't think they're actually autistic). They're on headphones all day, not big on greetings like "good morning", etc.
thats called ignorant back in the day and still is lol
How can there possibly be studies absolving vaccines from being the cause of autism when they add new ones to the schedule every year and new technology vaccines, like covid? Which vaccines don't cause autism or which vaccine combinations don't cause autism?
You can't say they don't cause X or they do cause X when this use of vaccines is going on.
Peter, I think I may have a very mild form of autism. I was lucky that my sensory overload came from the texture of certain foods in my mouth. I do seem to have highly sensitive bitter taste buds, but that texture thing was a deal breaker for food with me. The feeling of that texture would make me feel like vomiting even before the food could reach my stomach. So, I learned at a young age to avoid that stuff.
TH-cam censored my comment regarding the discussion you're having around the one hour mark.
Thank You so much, Ms Escher! My son is autistic (high functioning) but his struggles are very real. Like you, I am angry about the trivialization of autism. And you know what? This is linked with the trivialization of sex dysphoria (by the same "woke" people).
My son is a trans man, and an autistic female. I am convinced there is a neurological link between sex dysphoria and autism, but because both disorders are so trivialized by woke activists, none of this is being thoroughly researched.
There is no shame in having a disorder of any kind. But it is shameful that autistic disorder and the disorder of sex/gender dysphoria disorders are treated as "identities" instead of very real and painful disorders that make life more difficult for millions of people.
I'm surprised by how surprised Jill is that "science" hasn't come up with any ideas about the cause(s). I hear too many people dismissing hypothetical links between vaccination and autism based on "study outcomes" without ever addressing the hypotheses. There's also too common a tacit belief that corruption begins with corrupt intention and looks like corruption throughout the process. If you replace the word "corruption" with "mistakenness" or "closemindedness" or "stubbornness" and play out the conversation, you might get some valuable insight.
1:02:15 - Jill goes over this. There are no connections with vaccines. From the transcript: "It fails on every level. It fails on the level of epidemiological studies which find no connection. It fails on a developmental biology level and that you really don't have a mechanism of action that can connect postnatal vaccination with abnormal development of a fetal brain."
I agree with you in general, but I do believe, in this case, that corruption was the intent.
Brain inflammation / neuro-inflammation shows up in a lot of research.
Could be caused by anything: foods, airpollution, etc.
A lot of ND mums will get angry at any advice or idea where they have to actually parent. I'm on so many pages for parents of kids with any kind of NF issues and they get so offended if you don't excuse them to just do nothing.
So nothing about fragile X, no reference to Baron-Cohen's work.
I'm often wondering at this point if we're seeing environmental insults that manifest similar developmental impairments as the symptoms of severe autism.
$1M/year for one person 😶 at what point do you triage before the state budget is used up.
1:00:06 I think you'll see, like in my family, much clearer signs of genetics at play. It's about adaptability and intelligence being combined with ASD.
You can be ASD and be brilliant and this combination is where you'll see evolutionary markers of autism as a survival enhancement.
In my family those people in each generation were the breeders and the rest support and are supported.
This is also why a tin hat theory of mine is that most hill folk are more likely to breed ASD.
Last, assortative mating, I think, is still a factor in the increase of ASD. My husband and I did breed true likely because we're mutants.
The issue with this hypothesis is that it's spread much more rapidly than evolutionary traits do, and is popping up in populations that have not mixed bloodlines with the populations that have autistic individuals.
I would place my bet on environmental, like a toxin or lack of a nutrient. Genetics may play a role in making one more susceptible to that environmental factor, as it does with mold sensitivity.
@@amyb.6368
People underestimate and misunderstand evolution and genetics.
Some traits can become ubiquitous in just a few generations.
Especially since not all traits present themselves until they are inherited from both parents, or until the environment makes them present themselves.
@@amyb.6368 In my three kids, who are ASD, there is a correlation between my weight, blood sugar, and severity. My oldest is more affected by the disorder and I was my heaviest then and my youngest, I was in the best shape I'd been in since I was a teen, and he's a little professor, while my middle is the middlest.
I personally blame sugar and the obesity epidemic and once we understand more about our "second brain" we will understand the increase in ASD.
Also take B6 and magnesium, all ASD people should at least try it for two weeks. It has some amazing effects on mood and maladaptive behaviors.
@@txdmsk exactly, I also think ASD is more like sickle cell anemia and offers a lot of evolutionary advantage in small amounts and greatly beneficial for the spices at large.
Also this study on homosexuality seems to have similar implications. There's likely a whole range of disorders that are beneficial as a whole but detrimental to an individual.
Evidence for maternally inherited factors favouring male homosexuality and promoting female fecundity" (2004)
Authors: Andrea Camperio Ciani, Francesca Cermelli, and Giovanni Zanzotto
@@nicoledickens2366
Oh yeah. Homosexuality is often completely cultural too. While it is taboo to say so, studies offer clear evidence that culture plays a huge role in the prevalence of homosexuality in society.
For example:
Some 7% of Americans are lesbian, gay or bisexual, according to a Pew Research Center survey of 12,147 U.S. adults conducted in summer 2022. Some 17% of adults younger than 30 identify as lesbian, gay or bisexual, compared with 8% of those ages 30 to 49, 5% of those 50 to 64 and 2% of those 65 and older
In just 2 generations the prevalence rose to 850%.
This is obviously tempered by immigration, otherwise it would be even more prevalent.
I read a recent study conducted on the women on some nordic county (Finns? Swedes?) and its finding was that around 40% of young women (below 24, I think), had lesbian sexual encounters. By the time they grow old, I imagine that generation will be at around 60% as opposed to their grandmother's 2% generation, so a 3000% difference!
The environmental (probably largely cultural) effect on sexuality is just colossal.
My 4 yr old kid has mild autism, so far.. I maybe have some mild stuff going on. But I'm not sure why she's so very certain vaccination has zero connection to autism when there are studies that show some adjuvants like mercury do in fact cross the blood brain barrier? Idk if it is or isn't in part from vaccination and another part pesticides or flame retardant or what but her and that other woman laughing and talking about it as a conspiracy that won't die was troubling to watch.
Yeah she's talking complete shit, my son developed autism within hours of having his vaccinations, if you research the subject as I have we all describe the exact same symptoms after the vaccination and the same chamges, ie regression etc.
It pisses me off that big pharma has successfully convinced the sheeple that their injections are safe, if they where that safe then why do the vaccination courts exist?
Have we ever researched the effects of ultrasound on developing fetuses? Just a thought.
40:25 incorrect, there are some. It's about learning the underlining structure of language then applying it.
40:57 yeah but I'm high functioning but my kids are not as high functioning. How do we can divide the two? I was much more low functioning when I was a kid.
28:44 thank you so much for speaking out on this ... I hope you bring up ableism it's another term that has me very concerned....
I HATED the show "Love on the Spectrum"! As a parent of 2 daughters with Autism, I couldn't watch more than 3 episodes. These parents were laughing at and mocking their own children! And they were probably paid! Disgusting.
Great job interviewing people Peter, and I love the quests you have on!
However, you really need to stop with the continuous reservations and hangups when asking questions, they stop your momentum and appears to prevent you from making a more coherent exchange.
I am a DES baby too yes the men were warned not to touch it it made them grow breasts..
I would have been happier if the topic of the mysterious de@ths of at least 2 of the doctors involved in researching the jibby-jab connection had been addressed!
54:00 Peter, when you speak of 'socially naive' i think part of it is that we jist don't expect lying, we think people sre genuine like we are. Often it takes many lessons to learn otherwise.
This is part of a response I wrote to a friend about this:
I think that this is a common problem with humans, they wear a persona, a mask.
I'm autistic, I have seen this all my life, I remember as a teen in floods of tears because I didn't understand why everyone was lying all the time, pretending to be friends when they aren't, pretending to be whom they aren't, saying things which they don't believe and feigning interest in thing which they care not for.
I hate it.
My open forthright honesty bothers some people, but it does mean that fakes don't hang about, and that I don't have to worry if my friends don't really like me. I don't have any 😭😭 but really, my few friends are GOLD ❤️ my life is free from all the complications of pretending to be what I am not, trying to appeal to others for monetary or egotistical gain.
I'm free. I like that, worth it according to the cost/benefit analysis.
That’s not “autism” that’s just lack of Machiavellian tendencies. No explanations needed; most humans suck.
To be fair, I think this is true of all trustworthy and conscientious people. Or really all people - we assume others are like us until we learn (sometimes rudely) otherwise.
It seems autism just learns that much more slowly, which I guess is what the socially naive part could be.
Autists have a huge problem understanding what others are thinking, what are their motivations, and what they actually feel, why they have rituals, smalltalk, lies, etc.
I call it simulating another person. They are really bad at that.
Normies are awful at it too, it's just autists are much worse in that department.
@@amyb.6368 sure
40:15 'savants'?
Has anyone seen the movie Julien Donkey Boy?
38:52 autism has a fundamental issue with the Yerkes Dodson Law.
So we are seeing an increased prevalence of something more than a tad ill defined. Interesting.
❤🇬🇧
A parents ignorance of what goes into their childrens arms is no excuse for their behavior. They do more research into what coffee maker to buy than what goes into poisoning humanity.
How we treat people is as much about who we are as who they are, imo. I would go further and say that other people make us who we are.
Over diagnosed and trendy, just like ADD in the 80's and 90's - with every mom wanting a special child and every psychologist wanting a case study to write about... also with all the other crap going on in the world, I don't think it's possible for me to care less about this subject right now.
You think moms want to have a child who struggles in life and can’t speak?
@@central_scrutinizr You think moms wants to have 5yo boys that identifies as girls? YES! :DDD
I totally agree.
Clearly another "fashion" like T-genderism and such...
@@central_scrutinizr ... autism is supposedly a spectrum, there are more diagnoses of "Asperger's" than non verbal autism, and yes many moms love the attention.
@@dimercamparini 100%. I'm not saying there aren't any real cases of autism, but my mother shopped around to get a diagnosis she wanted, so she could medicate me and tell all her friends. My household was the problem. Emotional @bus3 created my developmental delays and behavioral issues.
20:35 do you have any idea how MUCH my autistic family PAYS in taxes. We put in far more than the paltry amount regional center actually gives us.
I am an artist. I work in home care for developmental adults. I also work in music/art entertainment. I make a joke about people who are somewhat difficult by saying they have the "Artism" 😅
My youngest has level 2 autism, dx at 2 and re-evaluated at 4, and a rare chromosomal duplication. He is 10 but is developmentally more like 5-6 and is a former tubie. Born with dx. My oldest is not autistic but also ND and born with dx, as am I. I was told by geneticists there's a strong possibility for all further children to have some sort of dx plus being high risk, so no more kiddos for us. Ive also been asked the why did you have kids question. As if Im psychic and knew all my dx back then and what my kids would have.
All these HF online activists being lumped in together make me angry. My 10 year old still can't get dressed by himself, drink from an open cup, jump or run, etc, due to hypotonia. He can't write. He stims for hours a day. Both of my kids are in 4 or more therapies since babies and stupid activists got the DoD autism program decreased services.
We got better school services PCSing from NC to IA, where my kids are 50% self contained with paras and a reading program. My kids and I have disorders and disabilities, not quirks, and not all these "neutral" terms. The new neuro affirming stuff being pushed into therapies is infuriating. They are infantalizing teens. I told OT, NO I am not taking out steps for a teen. (Adhd, LD, arfid).
We are planning for the future or trying to. If we could ever move further down the road to a little bigger yard, we are thinking about getting a tiny home to put on our yard.
There is also an increase in what could be described as autisim in pets. Yes, i have an autistic dog who is very sweet and is getting better with diet and less Vetrinary "care"
Anoyed Christina has not been asked to speak yet. Poor managment😡
He has an intelligent face and eyes. Never have I heard such stupidity when trying to describe an appearance
Almost 20 minutes in a I just want to activate an off button for "Jill". What a domineering person, and I cannot continue to listen. I was interested to learn more about the topic because it connects to some of the kids I work with but cannot continue to listen to her. I wonder if the other guest will ever get a word in.
A great conversation that was both informative and depressing. If I was a child today I probably would have been slapped with an Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) label. Fortunately I was born in the 60s so I avoided the drawbacks of becoming attached to a label (I am also gay and I have seen how people being attached to a label can distort their lives). I don’t think it is a coincidence that once the meaning of the word gender was changed and the concept of gender identity was created, people with ASD would be over represented. Although I was “gender-conforming” (I prefer behaviour typical of my sex), I never could relate to my male peers obsession with masculinity. To be honest I still don’t know what people mean by masculinity and femininity.
I was diagnosed aged 64, thank goodness, and I wish I'd had a diagnosis much earlier in my life, for all sorts of reasons, not least of which would be a greater understanding of myself, better life chances (with better support in work and education), and perhaps more tolerance from those around me. What makes you think you'd have been "slapped with an ASD label"?
@@skeovkp48598 i had all the classic symptoms. Stimming (body rocking), significant delays in speech, hyper sensitivity to loud noises (I was terrified of foghorns, and would stay away from balloons), dyspraxia (poor physical coordination and difficulty with gross motor skills eg. learning how to tie my shoelaces), obsessive special interests (e.g. maps, airplanes), mild savantism when it comes to numbers (e.g. I enjoy estimating the US debt interest costs in my head), trouble with empathy (theory of mind), long bouts of asexuality (supposedly common with ASD). The lowest score I have achieved on the Baron-Cohen Autism Quotient questionnaire is 35/50 (33 is considered very high). I scored only 12/80 on his Empathy Quotient questionnaire (a score below 30 can be indicative of autism).
@@jonathanedwards984 You don't mention your social communication and social interaction abilities (one of the criteria for diagnosis). I think this is the most debilitating aspect of autism, and can severely affect people's lives, in terms of relationships, mental health, education and employment. There are many for whom a diagnosis and support (although it's sadly lacking for adults) would have made a significant difference to their lives. Stats show that autism can severely reduce employment prospects, affect people's ability to form relationships, cause poor mental health and loneliness, and shorten life expectancy. I get that you don't think it would have helped you, but I don't think it's fair to assume that acquiring some sort of label is the reason people seek diagnosis, or that a diagnosis would negatively impact their lives. They often have real problems that need addressing.
@@skeovkp48598 I didn’t start talking until I was three and my social anxiety was very high (eg. I never joined a social group in high school or university and did not go to a house party until I was in my late 20s). I made a few close friends in my childhood but no new close friends until my early 30s. I agree that early diagnosis could help along with intensive early intervention (the journalist Aaron Sibarium is a good example of this). My concern is ASD becoming a core to one’s identity.
@@skeovkp48598 I agree with jonathan. There is a difference between finding supports for issues you want to address vs allowing a label to put up barriers or reframe your perspective. A simple example would be people who say things like "I'm bad at technology". I've found people who view themselves in that way tend to put in less effort, be less patient, and then use this excuse as a valid explanation for their failings in this area. Labels that come with predefined parameters, expectations, and a ton of baggage can be used by people in the same way to excuse their behavior or limit their potential.
So someone with autism might have dyspraxia, as noted. But some people who are told "you have dyspraxia" won't try to improve their physical coordination because they think "I have dyspraxia" and use that to avoid trying. Whereas if they merely recognize they had a coordination issue and committed themselves to overcoming it, they can and will improve with time. In both cases there is a problem, but sometimes labelling the problem causes people to become helpless rather than embolden them to act.
Jonathan is choosing to find solutions to individual challenges rather than viewing those challenges as a fundamental part of one's identity, which is not only healthy but quite admirable.
WOW a 6 fold increase in 20 years! Stunning...increase in childhood jabs? perhaps? Pesticides? Drug use?
That Escher woman is terrifying. Overselling science’s understanding of the brain, and ignoring the obvious problems with this diagnosis, such as the broad heterogeneity, because she has built a career around her “philanthropy “. Putting earphones on kids makes them more sensitive. People like this are making kids worse by pathologizing every unusual behavior.
you don't get youtube at all.. youtube wants some combination of watch time/clickthrough if and when they recommend your vid(s).. i.e if they recommend one of your videos and fewer than anticipated clicked through, or if those clicking through didn't watch for enough time, then you will cease to be recommended.
Assumedly, you want to boost your viewtime. The accepted wisdom is that you need to stick to a single, clear, idea to achieve this. I don't know what you consider to be the channel's raison d'etre: personally, I tune in because I believe you are an evidence based and philosophically literate current affairs reporter. However, if you continue to veer, your domain of discourse being topics you find interesting, then your channel will die.
Hi Peter great show. JLUK You put u the unspeakeasy time marks INSTEAD of this podcast -- so you need to change them thx @drpeterboghossian
thank you
40:25 incorrect, there are some. It's about learning the underlining structure of language then applying it.
40:57 yeah but I'm high functioning but my kids are not as high functioning. How do we can divide the two? I was much more low functioning when I was a kid.
I'm moderate functioning autistic, and it's very frustrating that everyone, including professionals, expect me to be either Sheldon Cooper or Rainman, when I'm a mix of both. Once I've been pigeonholed as high or low functioning, when I deviate from their expectations, they think I either am being difficult for no reason or not really autistic and don't need any help. Funny, as I'm supposed to be the one with black and white thinking. That said, I don't oppose functioning labels as a general term, as even high med and low are very non-specific but general terms can be helpful as long as people don't treat them as highly specific pictures of what that's supposed to look like.
@@decyattysyachpchyol the black and white thinking is a hilarious projection from neurotypical people. They're the ones who can't crosstabulate multiple variables in their heads. Our thinking seems black and white because we is usually don't share unless we've come to a crossroads and need outside feedback. Additionally, we have a pretty strong sense of justice and often a deeply thought moral structure, while NTs are happy to adopt whatever they're told.