47:29 "hey abbey, what do you think your strengths are?" was such a refreshing moment-- adin addressing abbey specifically and not her mom, and bringing the conversation back to how abbey herself interprets her autism (and not how her mom tells her to interpret it) was such a relief, and such a clear moment of compassion and empathy on adin's part.
that was so wonderful! I love Abby but her mom is a classic "Autism Mom" that will never let Abby be herfelf, only her Autism and accomplishments at masking
i was looking for a comment that mentioned the mom. she kept talking over Abby which was honestly pretty irritating. she also mentioned "her kind of autism" a lot as if there are clear different "types". i understand if abby wanted to have her mom with her because she was nervous but i really wished that the mom wouldnt have played that big of a part in the video and let abby express herself more freely.
@@CornythecaptainI disagreed with almost all of her takes and how she treats Abby. She gives me weird vibes and seems almost gatekeepy of autism when it's not hers to begin with.
@@mizzkittenttvi agree and i really wasnt a fan of how discrediting she was about how wide the spectrum has become. I get what shes saying and there definitely are people who just have autistic traits but not necessarily autism. BUT it is also kinda disheartening because I’ve always felt like im stuck between not being “normal enough” to be considered neurotypical, but not “autistic enough” to be considered autistic. And theres a lot of self hatred i had to deal with before i was able to have a therapist actually affirm my thoughts and help me through my diagnosis. I think the ideology of not being low functioning meaning you arent really autistic is really harmful and causes a lot of self hatred.
Yes! There were multiple times where it seemed abbey didn’t agree/disagree yet still went following her mom. I was really happy to see him create a safe space for Abbey to share her own thoughts and so gracefully as well
@@pollon4277 yeah sorry lol I don't know why I just got the urge to say it lol so I did I'm not the grammar police I swear I just couldn't help myself 😂
I wish Adin had more friends. He seems so genuine and funny. He also kinda stuck up for Abby at the end there when her mom was going on about negative things and he asked Abby directly what her super powers were to give her a chance to speak positively about herself. Very considerate.
yeah! This was most of what my main comment was about. How Abby's mom seems so controlling and helicoptery. So glad Adin asked that, because it allowed Abby to actually answer the question for herself! And her answer was NOTHING like what her mom was saying for her, lmao. (honestly not even sure wtf the mom was trying to say during that)
i was going to comment the same thing! i was so happy someone asked what she CAN do. it seems like her mom only ever talks about the struggle and “deficits” as she called it. she needs to let Abby speak more too
The moms a narcissist for sure. The way she launched into her bragging about meeting people on her trip to Europe was so random and unnecessary lol. Don’t like the way her daughter has to ask for permission to speak and he reaction was like “I guess” or something like that. Really creepy.
@@zy1232LS she also has a weird view on high masking autistic people, she keeps using the word aspergers for it as well. As someone whos late diagnosed and high masking I felt offended by her saying that autism is trendy. No its not. People are now finding out what autism actually is. There havent been many studies especially for high masking autistic women like me who have been taken advantage of. We didnt know it was the autism that was making myself very vurnerable that way. And these neurotypicals like the mom dont see our internal struggles at all.
@@purpleplanet888 yes! It was such a weird take when she kept talking about how she doesn't like that the spectrum is broadening and that she wants there to only be like three "types" of autism as if that's a thing. That's literally why it's called a spectrum.
Abby's mom has been in it for 25 years. She probably learned to be that way at the beginning. It is going to be so hard for her and Abby in the coming years.
"The difference between (...) her is... Stark." It's almost like they are different individuals in different situations, talking about different individuals in different situations...
Abby needs her mom to talk FOR her often because Abby has difficult communicating verbally, as they explained. She needs a bit of help and her mom is wonderful.
@@kitsune-c8j her mom doesn't ever ask her what she wants or how she feels, and constantly steamrolls her when she is trying to speak. I've watched this happen, this sort of overprotective parenting will only hurt her confidence and independence in the future. She could easily have used an AAC device to communicate, which would have also been useful and interesting to see. There are so many ways to communicate.
I noticed that underneath their names some people had "autistic" and others had "has autism" and I just really appreciate that those people on the show were able to choose what language they'd prefer for themselves as opposed to the show assuming what they'd be more comfortable with :)
Noticed that too! As a speech therapist, I've been educated through the terms "autistic" or "person in asd". We preferably use the second one so we don't create stigma around a person who has autism to people who aren't really familiar with this.
@ellieworks the large preference of the autistic community is identity first language. We are autistic. Autism is not an accessory that we have. It is a description of the way our brains are wired. Always follow the individuals preference but "person in asd" is a hard pass that doesnt make sense linguistically and makes it sound like we are being afflicted by autism or autism is a temporary state we are in.
@@kelsey6061 considerate that I'm not working in English, linguistically my native language supports the term "people is spectrum". By saying "autistic" in my language sounds stigmatizing however we don't approach a person by saying it. We go with the individual's name regardless their pragmatic skills
Agreed. Although I can see why the difference is so big, because usually middle ground episodes are made of 2 opposing communities, viewpoints, opinion, etc. This episode is pretty different in that regard. People with or without autism aren't some religious or political opposition which what these episodes are usually about.
@@Tenseiken_ The difference it makes for the people involved to not be or be seen as socially pitted against each other is very refreshing and positive.
I think part of that is everyone had an understanding of autism/disabilities. Outside of Veronica, you had 2 parents with children with autism and a child whose parents work with children with different disabilities.
I didnt like how overbearing her mom felt. It’s seemed kinda strange, at the prompt of “can autism be a strength” the way the two of them looked at each other it made me feel…😢
When Adin asked Abbey what she thought her strengths were, it honestly made me emotional. It was such a beautiful moment of empathy and compassion, and you could tell how happy it made her to say so many positive things about herself. This is just my opinion, but I really think Abbey's mother needs to pay more attention to how Abbey feels in the moment, especially since communication has been a challenge for her. I just feel like there were times when Abbey had things she wanted to say but was struggling to find a way to do so. There were also a few times when it looked like Abbey was looking to her mother for what to do after a prompt was said, and it kind of rubbed me the wrong way, but I could have misread that. (also we need an Adin and Abbey collab duet immediately!!!!)
Yes! They both sing so beautifully and seemed to get along well! Maybe it could even be the start of a friendship that includes their shared love of creating music.
Or a conversation about people being over-diagnosed, and how it affects the current culture of " special" tik tok" olympics. I got diagnosed at 5-ish. I am married, have kids, a job, friends. I function just fine, don't have identity issues or trouble regulating my emotions, I'm conservative, don't stim ( in public) don't have depression. I would love to hear a voice like mine, as there are plenty of people like me who function just fine. It is not a label to "express" yourself like a walking talking billboard for political activism. And that is what is happening currently. Most of the older generation ( I'm mid 30's) just wants to live their life in peace.
@cyano741 This is what I aspire to be. I'm 22 and was diagnosed at 15. It is challenging to fit in to society the way I would like due to, well, autism obviously. But I hope over time, I can continue to overcome the obstacles that my diagnosis presents and live as nuerotylical of a life as possible.
Why is no one talking about Chris? It’s heartwarming to see someone being so sensitive, well spoken, and caring at such a young age. The world would definitely be a better place if there were more young adults like him
very true. i'm autistic and i see it in a similar way, when they were talking about disability. it needs to be recognized to be accepted. if it gets accepted, people can learn from the process it took to get there, just like sensitizing people to physcial disability
His parents raised him well it seems and of course I think his exposure to those with autism at that camp, albeit not a common thing, granted him a new perspective
@@nucle4rpenguins534 For sure! The way he turned out to be just reinforces how important it is to expose children to different perspectives since the beginning. At first, it may seem like he’s not doing much (‘cause being respectful is the bare minimum), but in a world where autistic people are still called the ‘r’ word, teens like Chris are a breath of fresh air. My most profound respect to him and to his parents! ❤
Yes I waa blown away by his maturity...far more mature and well-spoken and emotionally intelligent than many or most adults. It is hard for me to imagine him finding his level of conversation from many fellow teens. I can easily imagine him being a counselor, teacher, public speaker, leader, etc.
Abbey articulates herself beautifully, and it’s clear that she’s worked hard in her therapies to be able to do so. Abbey having to ask Christine if it was okay to share the “Ariel story” and the response was almost hesitant like “well, you can” and then what she said really resonated with the other guests- I wish Christine would let her speak for herself more.
I agree. I feel like it was unfair to Abbey for Christine to participate in this video at all, let alone sit beside Abbey the entire time. As an autistic girl, I definitely understand the feeling of needing your mom nearby, but she could’ve been behind the camera. I visibly cringed over some of the things she said. When she was talking about the boy that taught her all about astronomy and refused to refer to him as autistic, would only refer to him as having “Asperger’s,” all I could think about was the fact that (from what I’ve seen on TikTok) Abbey can do that, too. Hers would just be about lions, not astronomy.
I got diagnosed at 28, and it was revelatory to learn about the root cause of so many of my issues. Abbey's mom calling late diagnosis a "trend" is extremely upsetting. We are valid, too.
It really pissed me off. Like who is she to invalidate someone's relation to autism and deem it as attention seeking just because they got diagnosed later in life?
I'm 40 and would like to be assessed, just not sure how to go about it? I've never had friends, no relationship with family and have been unemployed and underemployed my whole life. I've been trying to get a full time job but can't get past the interview stage because of the way I come across.
I'm working to get a diagnosis at 26. I always had signs as a child, but they were ignored and often seen as "normal" by my other family members that are also most likely autistic.
I haven't been able to afford a diagnosis but my doctor and my OT both agree it's likely I'm on the spectrum. I relate so hard to the autie people in this video and Abbey's Mum has really frustrated me so much. So many people are being diagnosed late because the understanding of autism has evolved in the medical field. It's definitely not a trend and I can only imagine how affirming it was for you to be diagnosed.
As a high masking autistic woman, I was pretty disappointed to see Abbey’s mom invalidate the experiences of high masking autistics as a grab for attention. Getting a diagnosis as an adult helped me finally have some compassion for everything I went through as a child, and it has helped me advocate for myself in all aspects of my life. High masking autistics aren’t a threat to others on the spectrum, and we still benefit from the diagnosis, even if it looks different.
I was disgusted to see this from a mother of an autistic child. There is still such ableism within the autistic community and it is because of people like her that it’s so common. Glad to see others picked up on this.
She might not have understood completely why they needed the diagnosis, but she highlighted a great point, which is seemingly well-rounded, excelling people show off their diagnoses making the public believe that maybe they have autism bc they are sensitive to light. It is crazy how many people did not understand the point of the woman's speech. 😢
I really appreciate Ian's honesty during the "I have looked down on someone for being autistic" segment. Recognizing and addressing your own biases (which we all have at some point or another) is important for breaking down those barriers between people. ❤
I know this is barely an equivalent, but it reminded me of the differences my family had to other families and how much it embarrassed me... beautiful differences and of course flaws! and how when I got older I realised that it's ok for my family to be different but it did take some recognizing
Late diagnosed here; I'm really trying to get better with internalized ableism. I feel repelled by more "visibly autistic" people, but I know that isn't fair, and I want to get better.
I did the same thing for a long time, especially to my brother. I think it's because i hate that part about myself, i do everything in my power to suppress and hide it, and seeing him not doing the same (or not being able to) reminds me of my own deficiencies. One thing you should know about masking and suppressing though, is that it makes you a booring person: You become emotionally constipated, afraid to be yourself and to open up to people and be authentic. When you focus your entire being into trying to be normal, you become like that NPC meme - mediocre. Generic. The kind of person that is hard to connect with. It might just mean you will spend your life alone. So practice on being yourself too, once in a while.
Being a late diagnosed autistic person with heavy masking I have also looked down on more visibly autistic people and I’ve come to realize with my therapist that it was because I was in denial. I looked down on them because of the similarities I saw between diagnosed autistic people and myself because i wasn’t ready to accept that I was seeing those similarities because I was also on the spectrum.
i really liked this episode but i do wish abbey's mom wasn't present, i felt like it was doing abbey a disservice to have her mother as one of the participants in the discussion instead of just being a support
I don’t get why they wouldn’t just have her mum at abbeys side as support and to break down the prompts without giving her answers as it leads so much to a bias of opinions because she’ll choose based on her mother’s opinion instead of choosing her own
Literally, she hardly even lets her speak. It's so frustrating to watch. The fact that she feels like she needs permission from her mother to say certain things?!
Thats a thing with autism moms, they often cant comprehend that theire constant interference does theire children a disservice. I think its because they are used to do everything for them and see autism as sort of an inability to grow up. Its hard to let go when you are used to work under the assumption you need to take everything off theire hands and they cant learn. They make that assumption true by acting accordingly.
Abbeys mom really irked my whole nerves around the 29 minute mark. Because honestly how dare she say we should or shouldn’t get diagnosed because we grew up without knowing we were on the spectrum. I got diagnosed at 21 and I finally got some of the answers I’ve looked for my whole life. I always wondered why I wasn’t accepted or why I felt so different than everybody else. Tried to harm myself many different times etc. My diagnosis let me know I’m not completely alone in this world and others actually can relate to me in some way shape or form. Shame on her honestly. And I don’t think it’s a trend to be autistic. I don’t know really any other autistic people in real life tbh but I find others videos on it actually really helpful and informative. It’s nice to relate to someone. If they want to spread awareness let them! I bet she has no problem with neurotypicals spreading misinformation yet she’s got this big issue with us being diagnosed later in life and other people on the spectrum trying to help fellow autistic people navigate through life.
I’m glad you’ve found out so you can have clarity and understanding about yourself. Yes that lady(mom) was pretty annoying. She probably thinks she’s an expert with no training. Also, she holds her daughter back a lot by interjecting so much, but I am also sure it’s unintentionally rude and she loves her daughter. I have 2 autistic children. I too love these videos because it gives me hope for the future for them.
People also forget back then a lot of parents would blame their children for being “bad” and did not believe or know about autism . Those people suffer through their life alone and deserve validation .
She's a gatekeeper basing it off of her experience and hers alone. I also feel like she's a little munchausen by proxy making Abbys autism more involved than it is to stop her from developing mentally. She's always with Abby - I've never seen a video where her mum isn't around.
Abbey's mom defs has the vibe of a martyr for having an autistic kid. Just because someone needs assistance, even to the level Abbey may need, does NOT mean they are incapable of answering and thinking for themselves in safe situations, like this forum here.
She also needs to recognize that not everyone like Abby has access to caretakers like herself. Plenty of disabled people are struggling to survive because they cannot access the care they need without the caretaker which they do not have.
I felt it to my core. I felt so lonely in school, i was bullied for 10 years non stop, i barely ever had any friends until my 20s, im not someone people would ask on a date. I have a boyfriend for 10 months now but before that i felt so lonely still and im in my 40s.
Christine made lovely point about representation, and then immediately said if you didnt struggle the same way my daughter did your not autistic. It is a SPECTRUM. Not every person with austism looks like the autism in your own life.
THANK YOU! I literally just paused the video here in frustration. Like, folks who are struggling as she described and are looking for those diagnoses because they can related to being autistic (like I did last year) are going to be lower support needs, sure, but we're still autistic. We're just higher masking. That was so demoralizing and offensive.
@iKit306 and to think that we all need speech therapy?... This is not always a thing, not everyone is language delayed. The fact that she feels a neurotypical person can't be aware enough to cover her daughter's ears from a loud noise is crazy.
Abbys mom should not have been allowed in this discussion. It should have been Abby alone with the other participants. She wasnt allowed to voice her own opinion! Why the h*** did you pay for speech therapy if you weren't going to let her talk? Shame on you lady. Furthermore, she caused such a problem that the other great things from this discussion aren't being talked about. So I want to add, this has been the most useful discussion on here that I've watched. I am so grateful y'all did this. I was not diagnosed with my ADHD until my mid 20s and really given no info about it. I'm 51 and just now really becoming educated about it. The last couple of years I've also become sure I'm on the spectrum and have discalculia as well but masked well enough I fell through the cracks. In part, I think because I grew up in the 70s and 80s and am female. I relate strongly to this conversation without going into a lot of detail because I'll give way too much. But it was such a relief hearing others that felt like me.
I think the "finding a job is harder with autism" prompt should not have been patreon exclusive. Idk how they go in depth about it on patreon but it is such an important and frightening statistic how hard it is for us to get jobs, even if we are fully educated and trained, the unemployment rate of autistic individuals is *so high*
yeah it's kinda ironic to put the "people might have a harder time finding jobs" behind a paywall where "people who have a harder time finding jobs" are unable to see it.
They pick the prompt everyone was here for the most to put behind a paywall, because you know, the disabled want to know how to find an job easier from people who had and why would a company give that info out for free when they could scalp you for it?
Abbie’s situation is difficult. watch how she watches her mom on how to respond. It’s not clear whether she has developed self governance based off of what her mom says because she’s been infantilized, or if as a part of her learning disability she doesn’t know how to respond based on what her opinions are and is relying on her mother to help her do that. in many ways that may also be the product of 20 years of her mom being that same support system and necessary guidance that got her to where she is today. It’s important to note that crashes and meltdowns for grade 2+ can result in digression of speech patterns, habit formation, masking and etc, so it’s not as simple as just set Abbie free to the wind and let her explore on her own. In cases where they aren’t able to be fully independent or self-sufficient, you have to develop very strategic contingency plans with small incremental goals towards that. Her mom clearly has given her life to her and has a strong sense of protection for her daughter, but its unclear whether it has contributed to Abbie being able to express her own feelings when she does feel fit..
Well in fairness she acts exactly the same on Love on the Spectrum. And on episodes are just based around Abbey, her mom isn’t in the picture at all (as it should be) .
One of my issues with Abby's mom is how invalidating she was. I wasnt diagnosed autistic until this year (31 Hispanic male) I didnt need therapy to speak but that doesn't mean my life has been without struggle. Ive struggled with clinical depression all my life probably from my needs not being met and because I went diagnosed all my life I dont even know who I am. I dont know where my mask ends and where I begin. If there is 50 different ways to he autistic or 100 or 1000 it doesn't take away anything from what Abby has achieved. We all struggle differently.
I'm a woman diagnosed at 28. People role their eyes when I say that thinking I'm trying to be trendy. I've been told my entire life I'm autistic by teachers, doctors, etc. I just wasn't allowed to be tested because my religious parents. So I grew up being othered and bullied and I always was alone. I was punished for stimming, for not being like everyone else. Being diagnosed was so powerful because it allowed me to forgive myself.
Yes! This is why i found it so harmful when Christine said that "being autistic is trendy" on TikTok. When that sentiment is pushed, it makes it hard for late diagnosed/high masking folks to be believed and as a result it makes it harder to get support.
yes, people seem to think they are being helpful by talking about how autism is trendy and that it hurts “real” autistic people, but instead they are hurting autistic people by spreading the idea that it’s trendy, because people who are high masking or low support needs will be invalidated by being seen as just following a trend. just because it’s being talked about and becoming more normalised doesn’t mean that it’s trendy.
I am sorry you got punished for stimming, I can relate a little. I was frequently told not to rock back and forth and didn't know I was doing it and felt like I was creepy or strange because of it.
Personally I agree. I don't know for certain but I have seen their content before and found myself feeling unsettled. They seem so focused on Abby being "functional" and "talking normally". She mimics her mum and in their other content might say something and her mum corrects her.I mean she's in ABA which I also found hard to hear but she said she liked it. I'm not saying anything for definite! Just explaining my feelings and discomfort which means nothing.
@@myribunt5261 parents of children with Autism often have to dedicate and sacrifice a lot more of themselves to help their children than parents of neurotypical children. Her mum is probably there for emotional support and helping her to communicate her thoughts in a way that others would understand. Parent like this needs to be praised and appreciated.
I think this discussion needed the voice of a late diagnosed autistic person. Christine seemed to put down late diagnosed people she asked why a person aged 35 would seek an autism assessment due to the fact that they had children and a successful career. Many people need to be educated on autism and it saddens me that a mother of an autistic daughter is so uneducated and also so firm on keeping autism an exclusive term to people with medium to high support needs. I hope people dont take her opinion too seriously because i believe that when people say these things it encourages ableism and sets our society backwards keeping us further from progression.
I fully agree! She said something like “They’re 35, trying to get a diagnosis with a college degree and two kids. Did you have speech therapy? Why do you need the diagnosis?” And that actually really upset me. If this person is neurodivergent, imagine what their college experience would have been like if they were afforded the accommodations they needed! Maybe they would have benefited from speech therapy. I think Christine has a very narrow view of something that is literally a spectrum.
I clicked because I follow Abby on instagram and wanted to see her speak without her mom asking her questions and leading the conversation. So disappointed when she was in the seat next to her.
It made me really sad that abby was not going to ageee with the prompt that its better for autistic people to date within the community but walked forward when her mom did. Her mom just totally spoke for her and also then abbys reaction to her mom saying she wouldnt be comfortable with abby dating someone nerotypical and abbys reaction to that. Honeslty it felt like her mom was implying someone who is nurotypical dating her would be almost taking advantage of her felt really gross. Someone does not need to be autistic to be able to relate, understand, care for and love someone who is austistic. I would have loved to hear what abbys actual feelings about it were.
THIS. All of it. Believing it’s better for autistic people to date other autistics is damaging to both those with autism and those who are neurotypical; it widens the gap between autistics and NT which contradicts the hope of aiming for acceptance that many, if most, people with autism want. I’m not trying to downplay the care Abbey’s mom has for her, but Abbey deserves better.
Well how do you know she doesn't feel the same as her mother? Maybe they've discussed this privately before. Maybe she wants her mother to speak for her like this. There are a few things that you are assuming
@@Scooterbeerrun Maybe because that attitude is very common in parents of autistic people and you can see her mom literally controlling the narrative on the video on multiple occasions and making it about herself when she is not, as she herself said, neurodivergent. There's this tendency for parents of autistic kids to appropriate their children's diagnosis as a personality trait and to make a flaming torch that they wave everywhere about how much THEY have suffered because of their kids diagnosis and how much they know about it while actually never experiencing it, taking attention away from the actual person with the diagnosis and speaking in behalf of or over them, a fundamental reason why the term "autism mom" has such a bad reputation. Yes, we cannot 100% know what the situation actually is behind the scenes and what these people's lives have been like but we have enough examples and personal experiences to notice the patterns, and that woman is certainly sounding red alarms for most people on the spectrum who watched the video.
props to Adin for subtly calling out Abbey's mom, and for directing the question about strengths to her. he was the highlight of the video for me, as a fellow autistic person -- incredibly intelligent, thoughtful, and compassionate.
@@wht-pny I didn't see it that way, to me it seems like she was pointing to people seeing autism on such a wide spectrum as detrimental to those who have a significant disability as their form of autism because it groups such a large variety of people under one definition. Some people have crippling disabilities as a result of their autism and some do not. I think Abbey's mom advocates well for her and it seems like Abbey needs that level of assistance and advocating for. Nobody is disabled unless they are being asked to do something they can not do and society asks a lot of people.
49:30 No Abbey's mom, your "biggest problem" isn't that the terms for the levels of autism aren't differentiated enough, your biggest problem is that you seem to be building your whole sense of identity around savioring your daughter and being the biggest victim. If a level 1 autistic person's life and mental health improve as a result of being diagnosed at a late age, and that BOTHERS you, then you need to do some serious self reflection. Every person's struggle is relative. Your struggle and Abbey's struggle isn't any less valid because other people have struggled with less. I hope you can understand that one day and learn to have peace and not need to compare yourself to others in order to find validation.
I'm sure the mom means well, but jfc her talking over Abbey and just generally not understanding autism as a spectrum was so hard to watch. LET ABBEY TALK SHE WORKED SO HARD FOR IT 😭
Literally, she worked 20+ years for this moment! I understood what Abby's mom said about Autism and ADHD becoming trendy on social media and the concerns about that. However I think it was misguided and she didn't actually think there was a spectrum and if you don't fit the mold you're pandering for clout.
@@circular_enigmai think she's more talking about people who specifically only have sensory issues maybe shouldn't be clumped into autism because it just makes the spectrum way too wide. like they can just have sensory issues and it have nothing to do with autism
There is a point to this. Even as treatment professionals, there is disagreement with the criteria list being so wide. We are still in an understanding infancy stage in learning, understanding and supporting those who have a neurodivergent diagnosis.
@@circular_enigmaI think people should probably stay in their lane and avoid projecting onto others. We can’t possibly know if these people do or don’t have asd or adhd.
Abbey's mom has turned her daughter into her career. There's a reason why so many actually autistic people are so turned off by her. It's painful to see how treats and talks about her daughter. All while thinking she's a hero for being an Austism Mom
Abbey’s mom has always been her biggest aid in helping Abbey be a part of the neurotypical world, and thus gain independence and being able to express herself (and understand orhers) in a way that is going to be percieved accurately by the mainstream. Abbey does not have the skills and tools to do this independently yet, which is why she is looking to her mom to confirm that the way Abbey is interpeting the questions and interactions is correct.
@@amandablomquist5678 I think it would be nice if Abbey was able to just sit in a safe space and give her opinions without her mom. Her mother could be there on the sidelines. She might still struggle socially but this was a completely safe space for her to practice using her voice on her own. Abbey is very insightful and intelligent. I think her mom is extremely overprotective, which I understand but she needs to cut the apron strings.
@@amberx0xo I completely agree with you. Abbey is an adult and she should be allowed to share her voice freely. She is insightful and intelligent. She does need support but is also an adult who deserves to explore her independence. Abbey's voice is important to help people understand how autistic minds process life. Her mom treats her like a child. And in my opinion her views of being an autistic person are antiquated and she keeps trying to pathologize autistic people. Even the guy who brought his mom to his audition didn't have her sitting next to him.
Wow, Abby stepping forward because she agrees that she finds the term 'disabled' offensive and her mom telling her "I think you should go back there." And Abby does it. I feel so sorry for Abby to have such a controlling mother that doesn't let her think and speak for herself, undermines her agency and disregards her boundaries. Abby obviously finds the term 'disabled' offensive and her mother keeps calling her that. I wish Abby the strength to emancipate herself from her mother and find other people to rely on who treat her with respect.
I disagree here. It seemed as though Abby changed her mind and then got confused about where to stand. Her mom was just telling her where they were supposed to stand
@@laurelfscientist That is possible, we don't know from watching. I actually ended up glad my parents are not involved in my life when I met and became very close friends with a mother daughter duo where the daughter has autism and the mother "is her person." It broke my heart and I had to cut the friendship because the mother forces the daughter to live how she thinks she should even when the daughter very clearly expresses that doing the thing will harm her. Mom makes her do the thing to blend in, it is so hard to watch an adult be kept under the thumb of their parent under the guise of support.
I think she wanted to step forward, but was confused because her mom didn't come, so started to go back. But she was going back to the neurotypical side, so that's where her mom told her to go back to the other side, to the neurodivergent group.
I’m glad the moderator is within the conversation now because it helps to prevent people from being attacked and spoken over like it happened for example with the trans episode
I think the reason she talks a lot for abby is because she knows the depth of what she can understand. She isn't being negative, she is just really trying to get people to understand that abby does have a different form of autism, and abby herself can not explain it in a way we would quite understand. It was super sweet of him to do that tho!
@@jessamcintyre2954 She can't possibly know more than Abbey herself and your assertion that a neurotypical person would understand autistic people better than the actual autistic person and the rest of the community is incredibly ableist. If you mean well please educate yourself better and don't defend non autistic people talking over autistic people.
@@debbieparnell7582as someone with autism I'm very aware that the way I try to explain thing can miss when speaking to neurotypical ppl. And while I wouldnt want most people to try to explain something as if they know better then me theres one exception. My closest family. The ones who advocated for me when I couldn't figure it out when i was young. Who listened to every explanation i gave and tried to make sense of it. My mother can explain things in ways I'd never think too that doesnt mean my mom knows what's wrong better then me but it does mean shes better at communicating with neurotypical and "translating" what I want to say.
One of my biggest issues was how she knew using the term Aspergers is upsetting to a lot of people, even if it isn't to others, and kept rolling with it multiple times over. I think Abbey can speak for herself more than her mom let her but it can become habit if she's the neurotypical translator more often than not. I commend Abbey for all the work she's done and all of her strengths and weeknesses. I wish I could've heard it from her, whether I would have completely understood or not.
Abbey’s mom irritated me this entire video. As someone who was diagnosed at 18, she made me feel extremely invalidated and her comment about how 35 year olds shouldn’t seek out a diagnosis because they’re successful is so damaging and disheartening. Autistic people deserve to know that they’re autistic and deserve help and accommodations at any age.
I've been trying to seek an autism evaluation and yeah I was thinking the same thing. It feels awful. I'm not trying to seek an evaluation because it's "trendy" I'm doing it because I've struggled all of my life
yeah abbey's mum is fucked up, the way she's turned her daughter into content to begin with is fucked up. but then she also addresses abbey as if she's a child
as someone who was diagnosed between 16 it also made me feel shitty. she's the type of person to think that if someone was not diagnosed when they were 5 its not a real diagnosis.
I hope Abbeys mom reads these comments and learns from this. She really doesn’t seem to understand her daughter or anyone on the spectrum; as well as not understanding high masking neurodivergent people. She seems to have a self centred and close minded mindset as well as a bit of a victim mentality.
The fact that the job question is put behind a paywall for this topic is appalling. A lot of autistic people myself included need help with getting a job it’s terribly hard. No job means no extra money for things like patreon. This question should have been free for the help it could have brought to other autistic individuals who desperately need need help in this area.
this is for adin specifically: you are an absolutely charming individual, sincere and kind and please don't take this lightly because it's not a feeling I get often but I really wish you were my friend. I'm autistic too and I understand that feeling of unbearable loneliness and I understand how hard it can be to make friends, but just know that if you managed to captivate a complete stranger on the internet (me!) then I'm sure there are people in your life who are dying to be your friend! (edit: spelling)
I felt this way too! Idk if it makes a difference but I’m not currently using an autism label, but I am still neurodivergent. I was just really impressed by his level of observation, compassion, self-reflection, patience and kindness. Not to mention how well he was able to articulate those insights, even if that’s not his typical behavior 24/7. He had such a grasp on nuances of topics and obviously thought about them carefully and sincerely, which is just such an amazing trait to have.
@@GamerGirl2347 you said it better than I could. that is exactly it! I'm sure he's not like that 24/7 and I hope he doesn't take it as a sign he needs to _always_ be like that to be liked, but damn I just really liked him lol. just a really cool guy!
I feel you, it’s thanks to people like him that I keep faith in humanity. And that it’s not just being naive to think there are genuine people trying their best to act with kindness.
Same here! His charm instantly resonated with me. Its very rare that I see someone and wish to be their friend so badly I would be willing to initiate conversation. But thats how I felt listening to Adin talk.
I appreciate Ian's honesty when he said he has looked down on people with autism and it's honestly it's disappointing that no one else came forward. I'm autistic and I definitely have looked down on others with autism. "Looking down on" doesnt have to be something as outwardly discrimatory as exclusion but can be as simple as a negative thought or irritation directly related to someone's autism like Ian had mentioned. I think most if not all of them have been there at least once. We live in an ableist society.. we've been conditioned by an ableist society. A lot of us who do have autism have internalized this and as bad as it sounds, ableism seems to be the norm for most neuorotypicals.
Yup, cant agree more. Being an undiagnosed autistic kid i was almost completely taught to look down on autistic people, so of course i not only internalized it but externalized it and made others feel worse to make sure i fit in. Its not something im proud of but its something i like to share to show that people can unlearn these ableist stereotypes.
I have absolutely looked down on people for being autistic, as a late diagnosed autistic who masks heavily, people who don't mask tend to get on my nerves, and I know that's not their fault, that's on me to deal with lol It's like, I've spent my whole life trying to figure out how to act in every situation, what script to follow and how to make everyone around me comfortable, and when non masking autistic people just do whatever they want it disrupts my whole system I mean, I wish I could unmask like them but I'm too much of a people pleaser for that lol
Adin is such a light! Austin as well, In fact, everyone really is so beautiful and kind. Honestly... except Christine. I know she loves Abby very much, she's probably been in her corner and helped her become more communicative throughout the years. I know Christine loves Abby and is probably her biggest supporter and cheerleader but she's literally cutting her off at the knees by not allowing Abby to just be. Christine didn't need to be there. Abby can advocate for herself. Abby needs to be able to learn and grow away from her mom. It's imperative for her to be whole. Her independence contributes to her wholeness. She's deserving of a full life, not just because of her Autism but simply because she exists.
I hope Abbey's mum reads some of these comments!! Imagine thinking autism has only deficits and saying it about her own daughter - props to Adin for being so empathetic and asking Abbey her strengths. I'm 35 and was diagnosed two years ago, I have a job, a house, I'm married so I guess I'm just doing it because it's trendy, not because support needs change over time /s
I agree. She seems to be gatekeeping diagnostic criteria. Having a diagnosis as an adult can help you understand yourself better, learn to relate to others, etc. "Did they have years of speech therapy?" is a really asinine question. Some "obviously" autistic people never had speech therapy. She's wrapped up in how Abbey and others she knows manifest their autism. I hope she can open her mind to the fact that the spectrum truly is vast.
Also wtf was that about how beautiful Asperger's is?? Does she think her daughter got the wrong kind of autism? It's just weird and gross because by saying successful individuals can't be disabled, you're directly implying your own daughter can never be successful
After describing her brother’s sensory struggles, and seeing her black and white thinking, I would not be surprised if Abbey’s mom is also autistic. So many autism moms have undiagnosed autism, and could never consider themselves autistic because they have a very narrow view of what autism is.
I really loved this episode, but I hope Abbey's mom re-thinks Abbey's autism as just a "deficit". The way that Abbey seemed to hesitate to agree that autism is a strength just made me think maybe she's internalized some negative stuff about her autism. As someone on the spectrum, I may have less support needs than Abbey, but I know we both have experienced autistic joy. It's truly unique being able to get so much happiness from your special interest, and to be able to present yourself with pure authenticity. Autism is not a deficit, it is simply experiencing a world we were not made to thrive in. I hope she is able to treasure both the differences we have and the challenges.
It's labelled "high" and "low" support needs now. ❤ But Abbey's mom has a LOT of ableism when regarding anyone with abilities beyond that of her own daughter and seems to disparage/ignore how capable Abbey really is.
For sure! This could affect Abbey and probably already is. I think Abbey seems so sweet, and she needs to know she is special, and her being autistic is not a bad thing.
Yeah, I totally agree. I used to really like her mum and wasn’t really understanding why people are so critical of her, but after watching this, I kind of agree. I wish Abbey had done this alone without her mum butting in so much
@@gabriellabermanAbbey autism is a deficit regardless of what anyone thinks. Her life is limited because of it and she lives in a world not designed for her. It’s just a fact.
@@cameronhowe1110 the autism is not a decifit. Some of the symptoms she has from her autism are decifits, but not her autism as a whole. Autism is a part of who we are. Calling our autism a decifit is calling us decifits
I'm really concerned about Abbey's mom. Since the Love On The Spectrum show she seems like has been speaking for Abbey even tho Abbey at some points has shown being capable of speaking for herself and has shown it over and over. It would be totally fine if she was in the backstage aiding her since Abbey needs a bigger support and at the moment is so dependent of her, but being at her side speaking on things that Abbey could have expressed her opinion really frustrated me. I come from overly protective parents who also spoke for me sometimes and I had to break che cycle at some point because it can become ridiculously frustrating. But IT SEEMS like Abbey's mom never had let her be by herself, not even in a Jubilee video, this concerns me A LOT about Abbey's health in the long term.
i used to think the same way. but now I have kids and I can see why some parents can becomes "control freak"..is because this kind of situation changes people, when you worry about someone 24/7 for many many years... it's such a weight for so many parents that they are the one who can't let it go.
Tbh I have mixed feelings about this because I feel like both the parents spoke on behalf of their kids and it's not like Abbey never got a chance to speak. They can have different opinions/see things differently.
We spectators cannot know how far Abbey has come because of her mom. Though we see her mom act like a coach, none of us can know whether Abbey has all the lifeskills to continue her progress without her mom yet. So- maybe let them be
❤ I am 69 and I believe I have always been autistic, they diagnosed me as major depression, and bipolar, as a teen I also used alcohol and smoked pot to clam me down,to be able to communicate with others . The world was cruel in my times , you was labeled different , so thankful things have changed
you obviously haven’t seen many people in your life lmfao🥱🥱 can we stop saying that people who are speaking regularly just because they are on the spectrum are the MOST well spoken and calm people you’ve EVER met. he spoke and acted how every person in the world is expected to act. are we supposed to give him a medal?
@@alexad7592 Actually, Chris is not even on the spectrum. You must be living under a rock if you believe that most teenagers are as mature, empathetic and well spoken as he is.
Admin describing his loneliness made me genuinely cry. I’m not autistic but I feel his pain deeply, emotions are universal even if we experience them differently. I feel for you Adin, you’re not alone even if it feels that way!
I don't like how Abbey's mom told her where to go. First question she got up but her mom told her to go back and then she waited for her moms decision the rest of the video. I love Abbey so much and think she would be much more independent without her mom lurking and policing her every move.
the mum didnt want abbey moving or being anywhere without her. maybe its a fear response, thinking abbey is so dependent. at the end, abbey sits apart from her mum and the NT(?) tries to swap seats seemingly at the mums behest, but abbey stays the course. it ends up being critical in the end since adin is able to ask abbey directly and abbey doesnt look to her mum for advice.
She went to the wrong side. She initially went to walk up and changed her mind but went back to the neurotypical side so her mom said go to the other side
Yes, I think her mom saying to go to the other side was completely fine. However, it seemed to me that she changed her mind on going forward because her mom wasn't going forward. When she saw her mom was staying back she stared at her mom, unsure of what to do, and her mom beckoned to come to her. I think she's used to just following her mom's opinions and doing what she says like an obedient child instead of thinking for herself like the adult she is. @@pinkmoonbaby
Idk their day to day life but I got that same feeling. You can see how much she looks to her mom for validation and to explain for her. While it looks like a bit much we also just don't know where Abby would be without the resources her ma has helped her with. I can't also imagine being a mom and the constant worry you'd have for your baby who you know doesn't see the world in the NT way. Doesn't want her to be taken advantage of, etc.
agee her mom has always rubbed me the wrong way. just because abbey had learning deficits doesn’t mean she’s not capable of being mature. it seems like her mom treats her like a child
Agree! I noticed her tapping her leg a lot too basically telling her to stop what she was doing and every time there was a prompt, Abbey would wait for her mum to step forward before also doing so.
@tayamcm7046 I noticed the 2nd thing, but I didn't notice the 1st. She is literally there to speak on her own experience. I hope she gets independent enough one day to get away.
I can totally relate to Abbey when she said her brain won't do what she tells it to do. As someone with ADHD, I constantly struggle with getting my brain to cooperate as well. It's so frustrating, but it's nice to know that I'm not alone in this experience. Thank you for this video, Jubilee!
Fr that's my exact experience. Like on the inside I'm 'normal' and can think coherently but somewhere there's a loose connection and I can't always express it the way I want to.
Abbey’s mom’s take on the “trend” of autism bothered me a little bit. You don’t need speech, occupational, etc. therapy to be valid in your autism diagnosis. The diagnosis in itself can be purely necessary for someone’s mental state. I know growing up with adhd, getting that diagnosis at the age of 12 made me feel so much better. I thought I was a failure and couldn’t focus because I was lazy. Learning it was neurodivergence allowed me to accommodate myself more than anything. I don’t have an IEP & I never did. I made it through school with no accommodations from the district. Just knowing that my issues were not based on a lack of will power allowed me to go so much further & believe in myself so much more.
I’m so happy I’m not the only one who had a problem with that. I noticed things different about me as early as grade 3 but never considered myself to be autistic because I didn’t ’fit the bill’ in my eyes because I didn’t act like other autistic kids (the very little who were around me) or go to speech therapy for a long time. But lo and behold years later at the age of 16 about to turn 17 last year figured out I am indeed autistic. It helped me figure out so many things about myself and why I am the way I am
@@miik7064I second this. Not to mention… getting a diagnosis is so so so difficult. It’s so damn expensive. At the age of 18 most people are on their own, most being university students who come from a poor background trying to be financially independent. That’s my story, I’m sure there are plenty others out there who know somethings up and who are experiencing the raw weight of autism or any other neurodivergent “problem”, but they can’t access help unless they get diagnosed. That should really be studied.
She definitely seemed a bit entitled about her daughter being early diagnosed… which saddens me because in Love on the Spectrum they got to work with a late diagnosed coach 🥲 I’m late diagnosed and it’s really frustrating to hear her say things like that… we aren’t lost causes just because it took us longer to get recognized, we deserve to understand ourselves too.
Abby’s mom reminds me of my mom, and that’s not a compliment… I wish she had more faith in her daughter instead of just looking at her like a project to be fixed
Abbey is autistic but also has an intellectual disability. Her mother doesn't seem to realize those are separate diagnoses. You do not need to have an ID in order to be autistic. ASD is a neurotype that impacts the way we perceive and experience the world and society. I sailed through my academics without trying before college. I didn't need more than a year of speech. I had no iep. At the same time, the world has always been too bright, smelly, and loud. I didn't understand social hierarchy. I never maintained more than one friend at a time. I spent most of my time inside my own head. Some of my earliest memories are of not understanding humans because my brain is neurodivergent and I have always thought differently. If you listen to any of Abbey's mum's videoes she talks proudly about training autistic traits out of Abbey.
I also reacted when Abby’s mom said that she didn’t like the idea of people who sort of seemed to manage through life were looking for a diagnosis.. Autism is not always visible for other people, it’s a lot of draining masking and getting a diagnosis can really help with understanding oneself.
I know this isn't the point of your comment, nor that you are saying this. However, I just want to add, you don't need to have ID to have disability supports or an IEP. There are people with moderate or severe support needs with normal to high intelligence as well.
as someone who is autistic (diagnosed late), i think many people look down on others who have autism, and dont admit it. i admire the dude for saying he did!
same, before I was diagnosed I thought I could never be autistic because I had this made up image in my head of what autism was-like people with autism should be pitied. Obviously that isn’t true and I don’t believe it anymore, but that’s what was ingrained in me.
I mean, I think everyone else just wasnt aware of the times in which they have been judgemental. I'd say it's impossible to not be judgemental when "autistic" is treated as an insult or when stimming is seen as childish and weird behaviour...etc. And I'd say it's extremely important to be aware of those times in which society catches us in its web of prejudiced beliefs, because that's when we start to untangle that web.
@@tedddybear I was diagnosed late and this was my exact experience. I'm ashamed that I looked down on them cos I had this stereotype of what autistic people were like
i think that looking down on autistic people is built into our social structures and hierarchies. i remember as a child, and growing up high masking and undiagnosed, i just understood that there were "weird kids" and "cool kids." i knew that i wasn't really supposed to like the "weird kids", and i was supposed to be more like the "cool kids." it's deeply embedded in our culture and in others, even down to our ideas of "cringe," of what's considered cool and uncool. finding out i'm autistic and deconstructing my masks has been very intertwined with deconstructing how i view society and social hierarchy, and how society categorizes people by their personality expression.
I was on a mixed gender mental health ward and no one looked down on autistic patients. If anything we had our little friend groups consisting of people with straight up autism and those with Asperger’s which is now under Autism. It was unique as we were all 20-30s aged.
Completely started crying when Adin was talking during the "I have trouble making friends" prompt. He completely summed up how I have always felt, (but the opposite, I am a girl) where girls had bullied me more than boys at my school, and still to this day I have trouble finding female friends but tend to gravitate more towards male friends. Such an interesting realization and I really connected with his words, even the music part.
Christine, “They don’t use the term Asperger’s any more.” Then repeatedly uses the term Asperger’s. Christine then gets annoyed that there are, according to her, 50 levels of autism. No, Christine. There are 3 levels of autism. You’re just annoyed that Abbey is at level 2. All it means is that Abbey requires substantial support, which Christine knows. She’s just annoyed because she is still operating under the outdated idea that Abbey isn’t “high functioning”, which she probably takes to mean that Abbey isn’t very smart. I am level 1. That doesn’t mean I am better than Abbey I just require less support. I still require support. In fact, Abbey makes more money than me, due to things like this video.
@@jordanjohnson6229Those levels are still not super telling, outside of clinical indicators that are more often than not used for medical and billing paperwork than to describe autists (because, as described, it's a spectrum and not one autist is the same or has the same needs).
this is the most grounded and respectful episode of middle ground i think i've seen. everyone is so empathetic and respectful. i want to give all of these people a hug
I feel like most of us on the spectrum are highly empathetic because the masking necessitates constant putting ourselves in other people’s shoes to figure out what they want
I understand that Abbey needs an aide, and I can see how her mom is probably overprotective because of Abbey’s needs; however, I didn’t like how Abbey’s mom told her to go back on the first question, how she said she thought autism was not a strength, her weird take on autism being a trend, and how she seemed to control Abbey’s behavior. Having grown up with a very controlling parent, I can see some clear signs that something is off in their dynamic. Does Abbey need a lot of support? Yes, but her and her mom’s body language showed that Abbey’s mother dictates what she should say or do. Abbey looks at her before saying or doing anything. Coming from someone who used to have similar behaviors because I was scared of my parent, that is very concerning.
I believe at the beginning when her mom told her to go back, it’s because Abbey went the wrong way; she was walking to where the neurotypical people stood rather than to the chairs. Interestingly, I perceived much of what you observed differently. I think it can become very hard to interpret situations, especially when autism is involved, as it is a spectrum and each individual’s social profile is unique. Abbey and her mom both explain how she struggles with expressive communication and thinking in categories, so I interpreted Abbey looking to her mom as getting confirmation that what she is adding to the conversation is relevant and understandable. Of course, I could be wrong!
Personally I agree. I don't know for certain but I have seen their content before and found myself feeling unsettled. They seem so focused on Abby being "functional" and "talking normally". She mimics her mum and in their other content might say something and her mum collects her.I mean she's in ABA which I also found hard to hear but she said she liked it. I'm not saying anything for definite! Just explaining my feelings and discomfort which means nothing.
I see what you are talking about. However, she didn't give me the impression of someone on a power trip, but someone who deeply loves her daughter. No parent is going to be perfect. She is still going to have biases. At the end of the day though she seems to understand her daughter extremely well and advocates for her. Look for the things she is trying to control. She is trying to control things to make her daughters life easier. My mom was very controlling, but also didn't pick up on signs that I was struggling. Creating a stable environment for someone can look controlling. You have to look to see if that person's individual needs are being met. The only thing I would push back on is being so skeptical of people getting diagnoses as adults. Not all of us had parents who had the foresight to look after their child's mental health. Not all of us had robust support systems. Getting diagnoses as an adult could help many understand their past experiences from a different lens.
She is not controlling like someone on a power trip she is redirecting and often you have do do this a few times within one minute.. My daughter has severe autism. She can talk a little but not sentences and she's still in diapers. She's 20. People often misunderstand this type of relationship. I don't know if you are familiar with the expression refrigerator mother. People often call the mom of a child with autism this because they seem cold torwards the child. They don't see them hug or kiss the kid and assume it's cause we don't want them or resent them but we do it for a reason. A lot of autistic kids will freak out and have an episode or scream if you hold them tight or kiss them. It's a sensory issue that they have and it's out if respect and love for them that we don't hug them.
I agree with you somewhat, as someone who also has autism. There were a few minutes where I wanted to say “let Abbey talk for herself!” I can tell that her mother cares for her deeply and has had to help her a lot. That is amazing. Though, I think as Abbey continues to get older, they will need to reassess what is actually working in their relationship and what level of autonomy or dependency Abbey feels comfortable with.
The fact that abbeys mom views people who can get a degree, have a family, etc as “not autistic” shows she views autism as debilitating and a block to success/an independent future. And it’s clear she has this mindset about abbey since 1) she identifies her as autistic/“accepts” her autism 2) infantilizes her 3) acts as if abbey can’t speak for herself. This behavior has always been evident on their tiktok. So incredibly sad that it isn’t more noticeable, her behavior is very restricting
I’m sure these comments will be a learning experience for her but I don’t think she had bad intentions with that remark. I think she just meant that because neurodiversity is “trending” and cool now, if you have never needed any help in life, what exactly are you searching for in your desire to be grouped into the label of autism. Maybe there is something else going on like simply a want/need to be different and be seen as different. I see both sides.
YES. she also continuously talked about asperger’s even though she acknowledged we don’t use that term anymore??? there’s a reason why it’s no longer diagnostically relevant and her thinking is so backwards and ignorant.
Did you not watch the show? She talks about that specifically on it. She’s had to take care of her her whole life, that’s a lot for someone to do. And she is excited that she’s finally found a guy that she can start a new way of life with because of it.
Ugh. That's awful. I have a degree and a job and a family, but I am completely overwhelmed by things other people find normal, it's not often for me to cry when a sudden schedule change happens. I've learned to operate in a neurotypical world, often at great discomfort, but that doesn't mean I'm not autistic. Abbey's mom seems like she's done a hard job for a long time but she's definitely exploiting it a bit.
She really seems like that parent who is using her own daughter's neurological differences as a way to gain fame rather than promoting her daughter's independence.
Aww I wish Abbey’a mom wasn’t there so she could have been herself the whole time without being policed. She was so included at the very end and she was happy to sing for everyone and make her side comments. I see you, girl. Don’t let you mom tell you who and what you are.
@14:59 my heart melted 🥲 Abbey was so touched that Adin could relate. That was very deep to hear and truly a beautiful explanation from Abbey. I myself never thought of it that way, just wow ❤
"i can mask, why can't you?" Perspective as a kid... Really nice to hear someone else talk about. When you're a kid being forced to act/behave a certain way (or else you get in trouble) it can be really confusing and frustrating to see others "get away" with being themselves. It's something that I had a really hard time understanding like why do I have to force a mask but others dont? Obviously as an adult my perspective has changed and i understand a lot more now that theres different spectrums and different expectations depending on family/etc. but overall- first time ive heard someone else share these struggles, really nice to not feel so alone
Yes, I had this exact problem! It was always so difficult for me to understand how someone else could just be completely themselves and not be embarrassed about it. My family was always so quick to point out and make fun of all my autistic traits so I had a deep urge to always hide them and it’s been so hard for me to unlearn that now that I’m an adult.
Abbey wanting to walk forward but the mom giving the eye to not made me feel like she was more controlled than anything she’s more capable then she’s given credit for that made me sad for her honestly.
abbey's mom frustrated me a lot as an autistic. absolutely horrible, and I hope abbey can see who she is without this infantilizing, ignorant person. I SO wish I could be there. lots of harm done by that person, and this is exactly who we speak of when we say "autism moms". the dad however, was really really cool. props to him.
I think she has just faught for help for so long she doesn't know how to let go. She's made it HER identity and purpose. A lot of parents feel this way. She just needs support to let go.
@liandajane3207 while this may be a factor in the way why the mother is like this, the question you should actually be asking is how can Abbey see this behavior, understand what it means, and develop a healthy relationship with the fact that she's autistic? that is a much more important question than the mom letting go of the fact that her child isn't a child anymore, and she cannot therefore have the same approach to Abbey as sue did when Abbey was a kid.
yeah i’m sad she implied that people who have gone a long time without a diagnosis are invalid for trying to get one late in life :( that IS Autism for some people!!
Wait did Abbey's mom just ironically stereotyped asd and say someone who is a funny comedian with a college degree, a wife and kids cant be autistic and seeks diagnosis for tiktok attention then ask "Did you even get speech therapy or anything? Why do you seek a diagnosis?" as if every autistic person needs to be like her daughter/need intensive intervention?? And no, people smart enough dont call themselves autistic only because of sensory processing disorder as there is an autism criteria beyond just that smh... Why did noone say anything? Its sad to see that she is pretty outdated. If a late diagnosed autistic person was there im pretty sure they wouldve said something. Its not cool to invalidate other people and accuse them of seeking attention or being trendy...
But what she said is true? People all over are treating autism like it's trendy and trying to be diagnosed or lying and labling themselves just for little quirk they have. Same thing with ADHD. It's ridiculous.
@@sjb5169you have absolutely no proof of that being definitively true or false, as you don’t know any of them individually. So don’t make a claim about something you don’t know
@shelly9 Do you live under a rock? It's obvious that it's become trendy. It's everywhere. There's articles about it. There is a huge increase in people wanting to be diagnosed with stuff or self diagnosing themselves. And multiple people being outted for pretending to have things like tourettes and autism for likes and views. Or People want attention or the need to be special so bad. So don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.
@@kissmyaxe9 I guess my comment got deleted? But just read an article about the uptick in self diagnosis and people faking disorders. It's a huge problem. It's going to make it harder for those adults who really do have disorders and want to get a late in life diagnosis without being dismissed by their doctors that they're just hoping on the trend of it being cool now.
@sjb5169 of course it is a problem, but you can't be sure of that about the comedian or anyone else that you don't know personally. The point of the comment is that the mother based off her experience with autistic individuals on someone else she doesn't know personally.
I think Abbey's mom might want to read Jennifer Cooke O'Toole's book Autism in Heels which highlights late-diagnosed individuals, including the author herself, and the important differences about women on the spectrum from men. I understand why she might make that comment about autism being "trendy", but there is a lot to learn about why so many people are getting diagnosed more. Getting a diagnosis at 38 was pretty huge for me, and yes, I was able to get occupational therapy after that and also make peace with some of my deficits from childhood and feel seen for years of masking.
100% agree. It really frustrated me when people say autism is trendy and people are just doing it for the trend. It's not fair. It hurts those struggling and self diagnosed to feel valid.
It really upsets me hearing this kind of thing. It’s the same for us ADHDers. Without the internet, I would never have been diagnosed. I think over diagnosing people is way less harmful than people being under diagnosed.
literally upsetted me because people keep saying i couldnt have autism because i mask so well and i also am seen as a pretty girl. meanwhile i literally got taken advantage of and bullied in school for the reason of me being quiet and not being able to make friends even when i tried.
When abbey is by herself she has wonderful thoughtful responses, able to take her time and hold her own, then her mum sat next to her, she speaks for her a lot, talks over her etc
I really loved this middle ground. But I especially loved the way Adin interacted with Abbey. He found ways to engage with her on the topic in a way that was more approachable to her rather than having her just sit it out!
YES I was also going to write an Adin appreciation comment. When he asked her to talk about her strengths at the end in that context it was really kind and powerful. They should do a duet 😤😤😤
Can I just say Chris is so respectful and knowledgeable!! He honestly seems like such a great guy, super well spoken and open. You can tell he was really paying attention to everyone’s words when speaking! I wish him well 😌
His parents are both special educators so he grew up in a household where acceptance and understanding and truly "listening" to other people was modeled and encouraged. I feel like whatever he decides to do with his life goals he's going to really positively impact those around him. I'm a high school counselor and I'd be so proud of him if he were my student for how he interacts with people.
@@HouseMDaddict Agree completely. I can only imagine how great his parents must be to raise such a well rounded young person like himself :) They should be so proud 🥲 I can see him thriving in any environment he finds himself in in the future!
@@leahcarnevale7340 exposure to different people and life experiences is such a valuable thing. He said he and his sister were in a preschool or something where they were the only neurotypical kids and those early interactions really do play a role on how your handle your interactions with people later in life. That's why I like that schools have allowed inclusive classrooms in the last decade or so. When I was in school prior to a decade ago kids who were neurotypical were often only allowed to interact with general education kids during specials (PE, art, music, etc) and lunch and then we had no way to get to know them outside of those situations which was really odd to me even as a student. When I worked in elementary schools in the last decade there were inclusive classrooms and there were no stigmas or anything and kids were all playing together like kids! Academically there might've been differences but at the end of the day they were kids getting to know each other as kids and it was amazing to see.
19:07 Wish they had had one late-diagnosed person. As someone diagnosed at age 30, I would have answered the "looked down on autistic people" VERY differently... Because I used to. A lot. And I learned it was a defensive coping mechanism because I saw parts of myself in them and I hated those parts of myself... Thus that hatred subconsciously came out at other autistic people. :/
i felt the same way about my autistic peers. i had a guy in my class who was diagnosed autistic and one of the accomodations he had was a guy who came with him to school to help with understanding the questions and stuff (i'm not a native english speaker so i dont know the word for that kind of person rn). i remember feeling jealous because he had all these accomodations (he still had a hard time though!) while i was struggling alone with similar issues (that i couldn't exactly pinpoint at the time). sometimes i also talked badly about him to fit in with the other peers because they did so as well. one time when i was doing this i realized that he was in hearing distance and i had very little control over my voice volume so i talked a bit too loudly so there was no way he didnt hear it. i felt so bad because i didn't actually want to hurt him, i just wanted to fit in. But I never apologized. Not even when we became friends for a while years later. I've thinking about reaching out to him to apologize.
I have the exact same story just change the age to 28. And yeah, I looked down on autistic people too as a defensive mechanism. I knew something was different about me, but the adults in my life disregarded that, and I also saw parts of myself in those kids so when I would see other children talk badly about them I was so afraid they were saying the same things about me, and to be real they probably were. I never bullied anyone but I did think horrible things. You couldn't pay me to go back to being that confused lost teenager again 🤣
Christine's behavior in this video was pretty wildly problematic. Someone can have a different take than me, as many people did but they all still contributed to an enriching conversation sans Christine. It was maddening to hear her speak for and over her daughter. Her insistance on "Abby's type of Autism" as if others could not understand given this setting speaks volumes. She clearly has a lot of ableism that she has yet to combat. Honestly, there were many points in the video that were hard to get through because of her voice. Conversely, I appreciated the inclusion of James. I think it was powerful to have a parent's point of view that was sharing his perspective without trying to talk on his son's experience. I also appreciated how candid and honest he was about the ableism he worked through to be a better parent to his son. Lastly, one thing in particular that kept gnawing at me about Christine was not only her repeated use of Asperger's, but causing a divide between different sects of Autism. I find this especially repulsive because of my experience as an Autistic person. I do not struggle from a communication aspect so others may not presume that Autism still profoundly affects my life. Previously, I was working at a job where I was incredibly successful in regards to my work ethic and efficiency. However, this came at an incredible cost. I was not able to balance any life outside of work and could only maintain for my job. I would have many internal shutdowns and dissociative episodes. I often would not be able to speak or care for my house. I had skill regression that I am still struggling to get back. By Christine's standards because I was employed, had a degree, was married, with a child that I would not be in the same category as Abbey though my Autism greatly affects me just in different ways than Abbey. My social communication level is a level 1, but my restricted, repetitive behavior level is a level 2 meaning I do in fact need substantial supports regardless of which category she would wish to place me in according to ableist rhetoric.
So glad im not the only one that found her really off putting, especially when she started talking about aspergers as if its just autism with “higher intelligence” like… ew.
Oh ok.. I really agree with you until you started throwing shade at people who identify with Aspergers. Yikes, autism, spectrum it’s a very broad umbrella diagnosis. For people are very different needs, skills , strengths, etc. But I’m tired of all you people invalidating people like me who use Asperger because that’s what we were told or diagnosed with. Like wow. 😂 High functioning was what they called it less than 7 years ago as well.
I agree with your assessment and feelings about Christine’s viewpoints and how she interacted with the group, including Abbey. I think it’s very unfortunate that the education and support regarding autism has only very recently taken actually autistic individuals’ experiences and insights into account, because Christine’s perspective is absolutely a product of nearly two decades of widespread ableist miseducation. I genuinely believe that Christine loves Abbey very much, and has done what she believes to be best for her daughter. She obviously cares intensely about Abbey getting as much support as possible, and navigating an autism diagnosis and everything that comes with that as a single parent must have been very overwhelming, especially in the early 2000s. While I wish she would be more open-minded and willing to accept the newer, more inclusive and accurate understanding of autism and take accountability for her internalized ableism, I do have compassion for her. Christine likely grew up in a time when high-support-needs autistic people were often sent away and hidden from society. She raised her daughter to adulthood in a time that autism was still almost universally misunderstood and highly stigmatized, even among support service professionals. I think her dismissiveness of folks with lower or different support needs (or high masking ability) is rooted in her personal experience of her very real struggles raising Abbey, and that should be taken into account. It seems that her exposure to the more recent education has been a direct result of being on the show, and with that likely came an onslaught of abuse and shaming her for her ideas and choices. Understanding, accountability and growth are generally incompatible with shame. I don’t condone or excuse her attitudes or behaviors, but I do understand and have compassion for her.
Abbey's mom is giving such autism mom vibes. I have a non verbal 8yo stepson, and the way some parents center themselves as if they are victims or warriors just because their kid is autistic is frankly gross. And it makes me worry about the guilt these kids end up carrying because they end up with such self centered guardians.
Unfortunately you don't sound unbiased. You sound like you have a competitive relationship with his mother. Sorry in advance if you have sole care of him with his mother not involved. But depending on the challenges, it can be a life mission getting an autistic child through the system.
Hei, you seem to be reading a lot of things in my comment I am not actually saying at all. He's my stepson, the three of us coparent. But that doesn't matter, there's never any reason to center your own struggles as a parent, be it of a neurotypical, allistic child or otherwise. We bring them into the world, we take on the burden of raising them. Everyone knows that having a child means you might have a child that has additional needs. If you talk to autistic adults and other parents of autistic children you'll see this is a reoccuring problem and a damaging thing. @@nica900
I was late diagnosed in 2022 at the age of 27. I was diagnosed with ASD level 1 which is akin to aspergers if it was still a diagnosis, i think Jubilee really missed out on not featuring someone who was late diagnosed and more autistic women. Late diagnosed autistic women are very important for this discussion as well. I really hated how infantilizing Abbey's mom was in this also..
Yup as great as it is to see autism being represented again the media fails to show proper representation which of course is difficult when the spectrum is so diverse but we do need to include more late diagnosed individuals now a days because our voices aren’t being heard and we need to educate people that ASD is much more than a stereotype and it was very upsetting to hear abbeys moms opinion on it becoming trendy. That’s so offensive
same with me, diagnosed last year at 25 and i’m also level 1 :) and being a girl is most definitely one of the reasons no one ever picked up on me being autistic as a child. would’ve been interesting to see this perspective on the show!
Same! I was 28 when I received the same diagnosis and would have loved to see some representation and also someone to stick up for Abbey more... and all autistic people. The way her mom speaks, it's as if she thinks she's more of a person or better than the rest of us.
Same! I have medium support needs, but am not even able to access a diagnosis or care because I slipped through the cracks and have no family or friends who are both able and willing to act as my caretaker, even temporarily to set me up with the services I need to access government & medical support. Would've loved someone like myself to be included in this discussion, especially when discussing flaws in our current system.
25 mins. It is becoming more common here in NSW Australia to see autistic/ disability accomodations… our big theatres have “sensory break” spaces where you can to get away and recalibrate. We are seeing “quiet hour” in big grocery stores where they turn light, beeps, music and announcements off for the hour and some primary schools have caves/ teepees in the corner of the classroom for kids who need less sensory input. My daughter has special permissions to have noise reduction, fidgets and movement breaks and her school offer the ADHD kids the opportunity to run messages from the classroom to the office etc. they also help with getting things started and keeping them focussed. Some of the kids have wiggle cushions or chairs and one classroom has mini basketball hoops on the back wall and the teacher has the kids jump up and throw hoops for a short burst of things are getting too hard for focus. So much is happening now that wasn’t when I was a kid 😊
The difference between the way James speaks about his son and the way that Christine talks about (or rather for) Abbey is so telling. Also, Christines insistence on using the term aspergers and referring to intelligence or 'functioning' is very uncomfortable, given that the term aspergers was first coined to determine who was and was not fit to live in a n-zi german society.
@@edenoliver2005there is nothing “wrong” with using the term aspergers. It was a legit diagnosis for years and many were diagnosed with it and have chose to continue to use that diagnosis. My son is one and I know MANY others who have chose to keep the term. To belittle them isn’t fair either. It’s what they know and what they are familiar with. Because someone doesn’t like the name shouldn’t take the ability from those who chose to keep it from continuing to use the diagnosis they were given. It’s familiar to them. If they changed the word autism tomorrow, I’m sure many would a have a hard time changing that term in their lives as well.
abbey's mom gatekeeping autism from lower/moderate support needs autistics is so shitty. mindsets like that is why as a low to moderate support needs autistic person myself, i had so much trouble getting accommodations. because i was able to mask and make myself appear put together screwed me over. i hate this idea that because you can travel, have a job, drive, go to school that you can not be autistic or you don't need accommodations.
But people like you are the people who typically dominate conversations about autism these days. People with higher support beads have less ability to advocate for themselves in a way that makes sense to other people.
Ok …. So if u can drive, travel, hold a job. Live independently. What accommodations do u need exactly? It’s like showing up to a hospital with a minor knee bruise while doctors are busy doing life or death surgeries and complaining abt having to wait.
These people have hearts of gold. Put a smile to my face several times. Growing up with a cousin with Asperger’s and naturally running across a few people in my schooling through my life who had autism, it really has always intrigued me. Because it is a spectrum, I acknowledge that severity of it plays a big role in how a person is able to operate in life/integrate with society. I understand that for some it certainly may not be seen as a gift, but I do mean it when I say that being able to see the world differently, to think differently about things, to react differently to things, it all is a gift to us as a species. If we all fixate on being the same, and thinking the same way, we never grow.
so disappointing to not only hear the way abbeys mom speaks about autism/late diagnoses/“deficits”, but i also hated the fact that abbey felt like she had to wait for her mom to agree / disagree.
I agree with you that in a typical communication setting, this could absolutely be interpreted as Abbey's communication being limited/requiring approval, but this is not a typical setting. Abbey's Mum has played a significant role in Abbey developing and understanding communication over the years, and developing communication skills doesn't stop at becoming verbal. I have ASD level 2 and you've actually identified autism therapy tools, which include modelling, peer training, self-management techniques and social skills training. These tools help with burnout, processing, interpretation, structure and context. Abbey is looking to her mum for verbal and non-verbal social cues, this is recognized as peer training in the context of autism therapy tools, but more specifically it is a helpful self-management technique for people with autism. Second to this, 85% of people with autism also have some form of comorbid medical diagnosis, 35% require psychotropic medication. It's really important to validate the deficits associated with autism, and also autism in the context of dual diagnosis. Without recognition we cannot foster equity in participation, and if we are expected to participate like a neurotypical person, we find it difficult to showcase our strengths. I hope this is helpful :)
It’s a privilege to have the parents and access to care that Abby and her mom had. Abby’s mom was downright offensive in her overlooking of the women who were girls in the 70s-90s when “girls don’t have ADHD or autism”. A lot of them had to make life just work. The lucky ones have had the opportunity to be diagnosed later in adulthood and finally get some understanding of themselves. Shame on her for diminishing their experience.
Let’s be real here. A lot of young white women especially feel the need to “other” themselves whether it’s being queer or neurodivergent, it’s a legit thing. Does it mean all or most behave that way ? No @@MauiGirl276
@@CurlyHostile While I agree with you, I also disagree a bit. Abbey's mom tends to interject a lot and speak for Abbey. Now even if it is hard, I think Abbey should get a chance to explain it herself. But we can never know how Abbey feels about it and maybe she prefers her mom to do that. I know there are times when I turn to my mom to speak for me. But at the times when Abbey's mom does it, it would be very frustrating to me. That is my own biases though. My parents also thought there was nothing wrong with me and forced me into doing things I did not want to do. So my view is definitely going to be different.
9:00 OMG, that "I'm lonely!" Had so much passion behind it. My heart aches for him. I don't know who you are, but you are valuable and thank you for existing.
Abbey's mom scoffing at "50 levels of functioning" like it's impossible for 50 different autistic people to have 50 different levels of functioning is so frustrating. Why is she against the idea of a literal spectrum not being "in three different [arbitrary] levels"? Every autistic person has different visible and invisible traits that are related to their autism, and personally I think that the community is wide enough for us all.
I think the point is that we need a boundary at some point. She said it herself, not everyone with a sensory issue is autistic. And who benefits from any government aid or healthcare services specifically for autistic people if everyone can claim some form of autism?
Yeah I really dislike this constant point being made in this discussion. Autism doesn’t look one way, that was already agreed upon. I think it’s contradictory to then turn around and insist that we only look at autism one way and try to limit other people’s experiences with it.
@@xGaijin504the boundary should be educated professionals who can help someone navigate getting a diagnosis or not. Unfortunately, there aren’t many of those. Also, they aren’t just handing out support and diagnoses. Specifically because most are uneducated and only looking for stereotypes. I feel there are already so many biases in terms of how autism looks, that comments like this and the ones abbeys mom was making are just harmful. I mean, they are literally part of the reason why so many people go undiagnosed.
I think it's because we still don't have names for a million different sensory disabilities. This is still so new to research when you look at the big picture. So autism will be compeltely different in 50 years than what we see it as now. It'll probably be divided and called many different things other than autism. I have adhd and they just started researching it in women when I was in high school!! So crazy. But I'm sure adhd will also split up and be many different things eventually.
I've been watching Abbeys journey from love on the spectrum and through her mother's social media (she shares her accomplishments regularly) and it's been amazing to see how much she's learned and how confident she is in being her authentic self 🥰❤
I think the round-up isn't diverse enough. There are only autistic people who were diagnosed early and neurotypical people with a lot of experience around neurodivergent people. I would have loved to see people who don't know as much on the subject or who were diagnosed more recently to have a wider perspective on the issue and a more interesting discussion (not that their discussion wasn't interesting)
I really appreciate having a live moderator in frame on this one. Seems more respectful and safer. Also, my partner is autistic, and sometimes I speak for him out of habbit. In those moments I must remind myself that even if I have his best interests at heart, I have to step back and give him space. I think Abbey's mum could learn something from that. Also, I love my partner with all of my heart and I wholeheartedly disagree with her about autistic and neurotypical people dating. Also, I wanted to reach through the screen and hug all of them during the "making friends" prompt.
She was clearly commenting on people at Abby’s level of disability dating neurotypical people. And frankly yeah , I agree with her. I would be concerned about a neurotypical person dating someone with a cognitive disability as well. There’s clear imbalance there.
@@kalinakowalska184 I would be concerned with an autistic individual dating her too. Being autistic and violent/a psycopath are not exclusive, there are awful autistic people out there too.
It seems like Abbey's mum is resistant to Abbey actually developing, she infantalises Abbey a lot by mentioning her "innocence" and inability to do things, when Abbey has ill. Abbey has a website (in which merch is sold, by her mum I'm assuming which I think is weird tbh even if they donate a "portion" to an autism organisation) and there's a note from her mum saying how ASD is used to describe so many people now before detailing Abbey's upbringing. It's a shame to see Abbey look to her mum before walking forward for the prompts, obviously a parent should be supportive and helpful but Abbey should be able to grow without having her mother to lean on.
Hey there! Although I see how someone may innacuractly interpret things this way, Id like to share more information with you so you understand the full picture! :) Abbey has a hat making business of her own. She learned how to sew by taking classes and once she asked the school to sign up for the advanced class, they said she would not be able to. Still, Abbey's mom got her an amazing teacher who taught her the remaining skills and Abbey makes all of the orders herself. Other items in the shop were created with Abbeys help as well. So it is really not her mom trying to sell stuff in her name. It is her mom embracing her daughter skills and helping her achieve a successful business by helping her set up a website for it, a skill that abbey lacks and is honestly not interested in learning. Also, Abbey is an adult now and you can tell how far she came and how much more independent she is, but she is still pretty innocent in the way she thinks and expresses herself. It is a disability; she has a much harder time interpreting things neurotypical individuals can do in second. So, it is not “innocent” as in a just born innocent, but as in a grown-up innocent adult, that has much more trouble seeing the world as it is than the average adult. A more innocent brain that has not developed the skills to identity mean, evil, and harmful things that everyone deals with from time to time, things neurotypical adults are able to do and do so unconsciously. If Abbey looked at her mom a few times when walking up, she just needed her mom's emotional support, she gets nervous sometimes in making decisions, something Abbey has talked about in the past. Thats what I got from the video. ❤
I think it's important to take into consideration the type of autism Abbey struggles with. She has had difficulties communicating her entire life so there is clearly developmental delay/impairment on that front. I think it's perfectly okay for someone who finds it hard to articulate their thoughts to rely on a caregiver, and realistically Abbey is not going to be able to be independent at all. And that's okay. Not all autistic people have to conform to neurotypical standards of independence, communication or success, and that does not mean that Abbey is being infantilised. They clearly have a unique relationship and I think it's unfair to judge since we don't actually know them. But I do disagree with a fair few of Abbey's mother's views.
@@danielleburke87it is. I feel she think they will take advantage of her, which isn’t the case. Abby is smarter than her mom think she is. I don’t like her mom
Christine came in with an agenda to disempower and invalidate late diagnosed and low support needs autistics. It makes me sad that rather than support and facilitate Abbey's communication and supporting her ideas, she spoke at length about how what we need is more division in the autism community and how mean everyone is to her. Like, im sure they are. There are bullies anytime someone is vocal with an opinion on the internet but it feels like shes gone "they're all assholes and they can arriculate too well so i get to decide they dont belong."
As a kid I would often blurt out thoughts whenever a conversation reminded me of them. I've stopped doing that since because people told me it wasn't the time for me to speak. Seeing abbey do the same and having the group be so accepting of that made me so happy, this group is great!
So happy to see abbey here, less so her mom. This episode reminds me why I love my ppl. We’re so open minded & opinionated ALL at once. If only the world could mirror that.
great episode but I hated how Abbey's mom talked about late-diagnosed autistics and high-functioning autistic people as if they weren't "really" autistic. Also those comments about autism being a trend? It really feels like her proyecting her perspective of her daughter's autism onto everyone else whilst at the same time infantilising her
I agreed with her that autism is becoming a trend on TikTok specifically. Similar to how people will call themselves OCD because they’re ‘tidy’ or have ADHD because they consider themselves to have a lower attention span. It takes away from those with an actual diagnosis and can benefit from aid. However, we as viewers can’t specifically judge whether or not someone is being authentic with their self diagnosis or claims. We don’t know their life or medical history. But still, I get her frustration.
@@veeee1584 if they are professionally diagnosed, they’re definitely autistic. non-autistic people won’t meet the criteria, which goes beyond sensory sensitivity. if they’re not, they can’t access resources anyway, so literally what is the problem with them using the label if it helps them understand themselves and find people who relate to their experiences? everyone seems to say more people claiming an autistic identity invalidates ´real’ autistic people, but no one explains how!
i agree. As a late diagnosed autistic person myself, people often don't know anything about "higher-functioning" autism or lower support needs at all because representation mainly is for medium to higher support needs. Of course we need that representation for autism awareness, but it pushes the narrative that those with lower support needs aren't struggling and are just "a little bit autistic". This whole idea really delayed my personal diagnose process and has made me have severe imposter symdrome. I know im 100% autistic but i still doubt my own diagnosis because of lack of knowledge of higher support needs and because i don't fit traditional sterotypes.
Fully agree. Those comments almost made me cry. It really brought out my own imposter syndrome, even though I was diagnosed at 26. I don't agree that it's trendy but I do agree that their are some who may misinterpret a single "sign" of autism and say, "Maybe I'm autistic?" However, I think other autistic people realize that it's not just one symptom.. it's a lot more than that. But anyways, fully agree. I couldn't stand how she spoke about Abby and late diagnosed people.
My father repeatedly used that word to describe things I did, which he didn't like. There were two situations I can recall where he said for me to stop being one. There is no nuance. That word is not acceptable. And before anyone mentions my username, it's not a comment on my mental state, it's a positive. "Crazy for," rather than "I'm crazy."
@@TheCrazydude17How do you feel about the use of the n word by black people? The reason I ask is because I got called a retard by my parents for my OCD and I still use the word in my speech because it conveys what I want it to. So because I am a target of this word I believe I can use it much the same as black people use their slur.
I saw abbey and her mom in love on the spectrum (I love abbey) and it was weird to see this side of her mom in this video... makes you think how much people can hide about their true nature. I really hope she gets more autonomy to make her own decisions and voice her own opinions.
I’ll preface this by saying that i love abbey and her mom but that comment abbey’s mom made about “trending autism” was really hurtful to those of us who found our autism diagnosis because it’s trending. The example she used of a guy who graduated college, has two degrees, is married and has kids and is somehow autistic (like she didn’t believe it) seemed…weird? There are plenty of people with autism who are like this. She also didnt know why he would want a late diagnosis at 35 and as someone with a late diagnosis i would say that it’s to help understand yourself better. It was amazing to find out why i have trouble making friends or why i repeat words (to stim) or why I always felt like an alien. I also don’t know why she kept referring to people with normal to higher intelligence as having Asperger’s (she mentioned this even in relation to people on love on the spectrum Australia). Anyways, I felt like she was weirdly protective and gatekeeping of the autism diagnosis and even the way people are labelled within the community. I get that there are some people who think the autism label is trendy but there are also people who would have never know they had autism is it wasn’t trendy! I’m ranting now but last thought is, I wonder how she feels about the therapist hired on love on the spectrum because my autism presents like her and you could say neither of us seem autistic at all to an outsider.
I agree with you completely!! That’s why I wish there was a late or more recently diagnosed person on the panel! I felt like it needed to be explained to her. I was sad no one explained this! I also wished there was a nonverbal person on the panel with speech aid equipment. I feel like this needs to be de stigmatized not everyone needs to use their voice to have something to say. I would have very much so liked to hear what they had to say.
Thank you so much for putting this into words! I very much agree, that part was making me uncomfortable, & you described the feelings about that so well.
Unreleased prompt andthe extended cut is up on our Patreon 👉 www.patreon.com/jubileemedia “It’s harder for autistic people to get a job”
First
2nd
Can you do atheists vs religous (include Christians, Muslims, Jewish)
You include a very narrow range of the spectrum here.
I feel like due diligence should have been done for a late-diagnosed autistic to be represented on this panel.
47:29 "hey abbey, what do you think your strengths are?" was such a refreshing moment-- adin addressing abbey specifically and not her mom, and bringing the conversation back to how abbey herself interprets her autism (and not how her mom tells her to interpret it) was such a relief, and such a clear moment of compassion and empathy on adin's part.
that was so wonderful! I love Abby but her mom is a classic "Autism Mom" that will never let Abby be herfelf, only her Autism and accomplishments at masking
i was looking for a comment that mentioned the mom. she kept talking over Abby which was honestly pretty irritating. she also mentioned "her kind of autism" a lot as if there are clear different "types". i understand if abby wanted to have her mom with her because she was nervous but i really wished that the mom wouldnt have played that big of a part in the video and let abby express herself more freely.
@@CornythecaptainI disagreed with almost all of her takes and how she treats Abby. She gives me weird vibes and seems almost gatekeepy of autism when it's not hers to begin with.
@@mizzkittenttvi agree and i really wasnt a fan of how discrediting she was about how wide the spectrum has become. I get what shes saying and there definitely are people who just have autistic traits but not necessarily autism. BUT it is also kinda disheartening because I’ve always felt like im stuck between not being “normal enough” to be considered neurotypical, but not “autistic enough” to be considered autistic. And theres a lot of self hatred i had to deal with before i was able to have a therapist actually affirm my thoughts and help me through my diagnosis. I think the ideology of not being low functioning meaning you arent really autistic is really harmful and causes a lot of self hatred.
Yes! There were multiple times where it seemed abbey didn’t agree/disagree yet still went following her mom. I was really happy to see him create a safe space for Abbey to share her own thoughts and so gracefully as well
“i wanted to be with the neurotypical people but like Ariel i couldn’t talk” i like verbally gasped that was such a beautiful metaphor
😢❤️
Elsa too!
It's a simile not a metaphor. 🙈 sorry lol I couldn't help myself 😂
@@journeybravely2458 sorry lol my bad. I guess i meant it in the sense that the entire film was a metaphor for an autistic experience
@@pollon4277 yeah sorry lol I don't know why I just got the urge to say it lol so I did I'm not the grammar police I swear I just couldn't help myself 😂
I wish Adin had more friends. He seems so genuine and funny. He also kinda stuck up for Abby at the end there when her mom was going on about negative things and he asked Abby directly what her super powers were to give her a chance to speak positively about herself. Very considerate.
yeah! This was most of what my main comment was about. How Abby's mom seems so controlling and helicoptery. So glad Adin asked that, because it allowed Abby to actually answer the question for herself! And her answer was NOTHING like what her mom was saying for her, lmao. (honestly not even sure wtf the mom was trying to say during that)
i was going to comment the same thing! i was so happy someone asked what she CAN do. it seems like her mom only ever talks about the struggle and “deficits” as she called it. she needs to let Abby speak more too
The moms a narcissist for sure. The way she launched into her bragging about meeting people on her trip to Europe was so random and unnecessary lol. Don’t like the way her daughter has to ask for permission to speak and he reaction was like “I guess” or something like that. Really creepy.
@@zy1232LS she also has a weird view on high masking autistic people, she keeps using the word aspergers for it as well. As someone whos late diagnosed and high masking I felt offended by her saying that autism is trendy. No its not. People are now finding out what autism actually is. There havent been many studies especially for high masking autistic women like me who have been taken advantage of. We didnt know it was the autism that was making myself very vurnerable that way. And these neurotypicals like the mom dont see our internal struggles at all.
@@purpleplanet888 yes! It was such a weird take when she kept talking about how she doesn't like that the spectrum is broadening and that she wants there to only be like three "types" of autism as if that's a thing. That's literally why it's called a spectrum.
The difference between the way James talks about his son and the way Abby's mom talks about her is... Stark.
Talking for vs talking about which is crazy considering he has the non verbal son
Abby's mom has been in it for 25 years. She probably learned to be that way at the beginning. It is going to be so hard for her and Abby in the coming years.
"The difference between (...) her is... Stark."
It's almost like they are different individuals in different situations, talking about different individuals in different situations...
Abby needs her mom to talk FOR her often because Abby has difficult communicating verbally, as they explained. She needs a bit of help and her mom is wonderful.
@@kitsune-c8j her mom doesn't ever ask her what she wants or how she feels, and constantly steamrolls her when she is trying to speak. I've watched this happen, this sort of overprotective parenting will only hurt her confidence and independence in the future.
She could easily have used an AAC device to communicate, which would have also been useful and interesting to see. There are so many ways to communicate.
I noticed that underneath their names some people had "autistic" and others had "has autism" and I just really appreciate that those people on the show were able to choose what language they'd prefer for themselves as opposed to the show assuming what they'd be more comfortable with :)
i saw this too it is just a little touch that really shows that jubilee cares abt the people they have on their show
I didn’t notice until you mentioned this. That is very thoughtful!
Noticed that too! As a speech therapist, I've been educated through the terms "autistic" or "person in asd". We preferably use the second one so we don't create stigma around a person who has autism to people who aren't really familiar with this.
@ellieworks the large preference of the autistic community is identity first language. We are autistic. Autism is not an accessory that we have. It is a description of the way our brains are wired. Always follow the individuals preference but "person in asd" is a hard pass that doesnt make sense linguistically and makes it sound like we are being afflicted by autism or autism is a temporary state we are in.
@@kelsey6061 considerate that I'm not working in English, linguistically my native language supports the term "people is spectrum". By saying "autistic" in my language sounds stigmatizing however we don't approach a person by saying it. We go with the individual's name regardless their pragmatic skills
If only all middle ground episodes were so grounded and respectful
Agreed. Although I can see why the difference is so big, because usually middle ground episodes are made of 2 opposing communities, viewpoints, opinion, etc. This episode is pretty different in that regard. People with or without autism aren't some religious or political opposition which what these episodes are usually about.
@@Tenseiken_ The difference it makes for the people involved to not be or be seen as socially pitted against each other is very refreshing and positive.
Yall say this every episode
Exactly, these discussions are mostly very respectful and civil @@alastair9835
I think part of that is everyone had an understanding of autism/disabilities. Outside of Veronica, you had 2 parents with children with autism and a child whose parents work with children with different disabilities.
I love Abbey explaining her autism through the little mermaid, she articulated that so well
yeah, ariel also collects things that were her interest, in her case humans, plus her friends were animales vs other mermaids.
I love their tiktok page it's so great.
Have see on love on the Spectrum?
I didnt like how overbearing her mom felt. It’s seemed kinda strange, at the prompt of “can autism be a strength” the way the two of them looked at each other it made me feel…😢
@@julians6620 she was belittling her so much.
When Adin asked Abbey what she thought her strengths were, it honestly made me emotional. It was such a beautiful moment of empathy and compassion, and you could tell how happy it made her to say so many positive things about herself. This is just my opinion, but I really think Abbey's mother needs to pay more attention to how Abbey feels in the moment, especially since communication has been a challenge for her. I just feel like there were times when Abbey had things she wanted to say but was struggling to find a way to do so. There were also a few times when it looked like Abbey was looking to her mother for what to do after a prompt was said, and it kind of rubbed me the wrong way, but I could have misread that.
(also we need an Adin and Abbey collab duet immediately!!!!)
Yes I would love an Adin and Abbey collab so much!!!
Yes! They both sing so beautifully and seemed to get along well! Maybe it could even be the start of a friendship that includes their shared love of creating music.
he was so sweet
As an autistic person who was diagnosed later, I would be so interested in a middle ground between early and late/later diagnosed.😊
As someone diagnosed at 15, I would too.
I had non verbal autism and didn’t speak until around 7 years of age. No words just weird noises and in my own world.
fr it kinda feels like a whole perspective was out of the conversation
Or a conversation about people being over-diagnosed, and how it affects the current culture of " special" tik tok" olympics. I got diagnosed at 5-ish. I am married, have kids, a job, friends. I function just fine, don't have identity issues or trouble regulating my emotions, I'm conservative, don't stim ( in public) don't have depression. I would love to hear a voice like mine, as there are plenty of people like me who function just fine. It is not a label to "express" yourself like a walking talking billboard for political activism. And that is what is happening currently. Most of the older generation ( I'm mid 30's) just wants to live their life in peace.
@cyano741 This is what I aspire to be. I'm 22 and was diagnosed at 15. It is challenging to fit in to society the way I would like due to, well, autism obviously. But I hope over time, I can continue to overcome the obstacles that my diagnosis presents and live as nuerotylical of a life as possible.
Why is no one talking about Chris? It’s heartwarming to see someone being so sensitive, well spoken, and caring at such a young age. The world would definitely be a better place if there were more young adults like him
very true. i'm autistic and i see it in a similar way, when they were talking about disability. it needs to be recognized to be accepted. if it gets accepted, people can learn from the process it took to get there, just like sensitizing people to physcial disability
His parents raised him well it seems and of course I think his exposure to those with autism at that camp, albeit not a common thing, granted him a new perspective
@@nucle4rpenguins534 For sure! The way he turned out to be just reinforces how important it is to expose children to different perspectives since the beginning. At first, it may seem like he’s not doing much (‘cause being respectful is the bare minimum), but in a world where autistic people are still called the ‘r’ word, teens like Chris are a breath of fresh air. My most profound respect to him and to his parents! ❤
LITERALLY KEPT THINKING THIS THE ENTIRE TIME
Yes I waa blown away by his maturity...far more mature and well-spoken and emotionally intelligent than many or most adults. It is hard for me to imagine him finding his level of conversation from many fellow teens. I can easily imagine him being a counselor, teacher, public speaker, leader, etc.
Abbey articulates herself beautifully, and it’s clear that she’s worked hard in her therapies to be able to do so. Abbey having to ask Christine if it was okay to share the “Ariel story” and the response was almost hesitant like “well, you can” and then what she said really resonated with the other guests- I wish Christine would let her speak for herself more.
❤yes❤
I agree. I feel like it was unfair to Abbey for Christine to participate in this video at all, let alone sit beside Abbey the entire time. As an autistic girl, I definitely understand the feeling of needing your mom nearby, but she could’ve been behind the camera. I visibly cringed over some of the things she said. When she was talking about the boy that taught her all about astronomy and refused to refer to him as autistic, would only refer to him as having “Asperger’s,” all I could think about was the fact that (from what I’ve seen on TikTok) Abbey can do that, too. Hers would just be about lions, not astronomy.
I also noticed she would want to go forward or stay back multiple times but since her mom did or didn't she always sided with wherever she was.
@@elizabethalysse5438 Yes I do agree, I'd love to see Abbey voicing her truth independentlly even if still close to her mom.
Ha, but according to her mom, she doesn’t have the “gift of intelligence”, like someone “with Asbergers”
I got diagnosed at 28, and it was revelatory to learn about the root cause of so many of my issues. Abbey's mom calling late diagnosis a "trend" is extremely upsetting. We are valid, too.
It really pissed me off. Like who is she to invalidate someone's relation to autism and deem it as attention seeking just because they got diagnosed later in life?
I'm 40 and would like to be assessed, just not sure how to go about it? I've never had friends, no relationship with family and have been unemployed and underemployed my whole life. I've been trying to get a full time job but can't get past the interview stage because of the way I come across.
I'm working to get a diagnosis at 26. I always had signs as a child, but they were ignored and often seen as "normal" by my other family members that are also most likely autistic.
She's a bit narrowminded of what autism can look like in other people, but she's NT so, it's hard for them to relate.
I haven't been able to afford a diagnosis but my doctor and my OT both agree it's likely I'm on the spectrum. I relate so hard to the autie people in this video and Abbey's Mum has really frustrated me so much. So many people are being diagnosed late because the understanding of autism has evolved in the medical field. It's definitely not a trend and I can only imagine how affirming it was for you to be diagnosed.
As a high masking autistic woman, I was pretty disappointed to see Abbey’s mom invalidate the experiences of high masking autistics as a grab for attention. Getting a diagnosis as an adult helped me finally have some compassion for everything I went through as a child, and it has helped me advocate for myself in all aspects of my life. High masking autistics aren’t a threat to others on the spectrum, and we still benefit from the diagnosis, even if it looks different.
Exactly
I was VERY disappointed too. Invalidating others experiences is NOT okay.
I was disgusted to see this from a mother of an autistic child. There is still such ableism within the autistic community and it is because of people like her that it’s so common. Glad to see others picked up on this.
She might not have understood completely why they needed the diagnosis, but she highlighted a great point, which is seemingly well-rounded, excelling people show off their diagnoses making the public believe that maybe they have autism bc they are sensitive to light. It is crazy how many people did not understand the point of the woman's speech. 😢
im so glad other people had this thought. have low needs doesnt suddenly mean not autistic
I really appreciate Ian's honesty during the "I have looked down on someone for being autistic" segment. Recognizing and addressing your own biases (which we all have at some point or another) is important for breaking down those barriers between people. ❤
I know this is barely an equivalent, but it reminded me of the differences my family had to other families and how much it embarrassed me... beautiful differences and of course flaws! and how when I got older I realised that it's ok for my family to be different but it did take some recognizing
i completely agree!
Late diagnosed here; I'm really trying to get better with internalized ableism. I feel repelled by more "visibly autistic" people, but I know that isn't fair, and I want to get better.
I did the same thing for a long time, especially to my brother.
I think it's because i hate that part about myself, i do everything in my power to suppress and hide it, and seeing him not doing the same (or not being able to) reminds me of my own deficiencies.
One thing you should know about masking and suppressing though, is that it makes you a booring person: You become emotionally constipated, afraid to be yourself and to open up to people and be authentic. When you focus your entire being into trying to be normal, you become like that NPC meme - mediocre. Generic. The kind of person that is hard to connect with. It might just mean you will spend your life alone.
So practice on being yourself too, once in a while.
Being a late diagnosed autistic person with heavy masking I have also looked down on more visibly autistic people and I’ve come to realize with my therapist that it was because I was in denial. I looked down on them because of the similarities I saw between diagnosed autistic people and myself because i wasn’t ready to accept that I was seeing those similarities because I was also on the spectrum.
i really liked this episode but i do wish abbey's mom wasn't present, i felt like it was doing abbey a disservice to have her mother as one of the participants in the discussion instead of just being a support
Absolutely agree
Without her it would have been an amazing conversation.
I don’t get why they wouldn’t just have her mum at abbeys side as support and to break down the prompts without giving her answers as it leads so much to a bias of opinions because she’ll choose based on her mother’s opinion instead of choosing her own
Literally, she hardly even lets her speak. It's so frustrating to watch. The fact that she feels like she needs permission from her mother to say certain things?!
Thats a thing with autism moms, they often cant comprehend that theire constant interference does theire children a disservice.
I think its because they are used to do everything for them and see autism as sort of an inability to grow up. Its hard to let go when you are used to work under the assumption you need to take everything off theire hands and they cant learn. They make that assumption true by acting accordingly.
Abbeys mom really irked my whole nerves around the 29 minute mark. Because honestly how dare she say we should or shouldn’t get diagnosed because we grew up without knowing we were on the spectrum. I got diagnosed at 21 and I finally got some of the answers I’ve looked for my whole life. I always wondered why I wasn’t accepted or why I felt so different than everybody else. Tried to harm myself many different times etc. My diagnosis let me know I’m not completely alone in this world and others actually can relate to me in some way shape or form. Shame on her honestly. And I don’t think it’s a trend to be autistic. I don’t know really any other autistic people in real life tbh but I find others videos on it actually really helpful and informative. It’s nice to relate to someone. If they want to spread awareness let them! I bet she has no problem with neurotypicals spreading misinformation yet she’s got this big issue with us being diagnosed later in life and other people on the spectrum trying to help fellow autistic people navigate through life.
I’m glad you’ve found out so you can have clarity and understanding about yourself. Yes that lady(mom) was pretty annoying. She probably thinks she’s an expert with no training. Also, she holds her daughter back a lot by interjecting so much, but I am also sure it’s unintentionally rude and she loves her daughter.
I have 2 autistic children. I too love these videos because it gives me hope for the future for them.
People also forget back then a lot of parents would blame their children for being “bad” and did not believe or know about autism . Those people suffer through their life alone and deserve validation .
She's a gatekeeper basing it off of her experience and hers alone.
I also feel like she's a little munchausen by proxy making Abbys autism more involved than it is to stop her from developing mentally. She's always with Abby - I've never seen a video where her mum isn't around.
relax
Abbey's mom defs has the vibe of a martyr for having an autistic kid. Just because someone needs assistance, even to the level Abbey may need, does NOT mean they are incapable of answering and thinking for themselves in safe situations, like this forum here.
She also needs to recognize that not everyone like Abby has access to caretakers like herself. Plenty of disabled people are struggling to survive because they cannot access the care they need without the caretaker which they do not have.
9:20 “I am so lonely”…this was a devastating prompt. Wish people could have more humanity
Yeah I felt so bad for him, but remember not all people are bad
He sounds so lovely and I’d love to be his friend!
I felt it to my core. I felt so lonely in school, i was bullied for 10 years non stop, i barely ever had any friends until my 20s, im not someone people would ask on a date. I have a boyfriend for 10 months now but before that i felt so lonely still and im in my 40s.
That hit me to my core, unfortunately. Especially when it pertains to my childhood and adolescense.
That broke my heart. I’m autistic & it hit me to my core 😢
Christine made lovely point about representation, and then immediately said if you didnt struggle the same way my daughter did your not autistic. It is a SPECTRUM. Not every person with austism looks like the autism in your own life.
yeh that was super offputting.
She is unsufferable
THANK YOU! I literally just paused the video here in frustration. Like, folks who are struggling as she described and are looking for those diagnoses because they can related to being autistic (like I did last year) are going to be lower support needs, sure, but we're still autistic. We're just higher masking. That was so demoralizing and offensive.
@iKit306 and to think that we all need speech therapy?... This is not always a thing, not everyone is language delayed.
The fact that she feels a neurotypical person can't be aware enough to cover her daughter's ears from a loud noise is crazy.
Abbys mom should not have been allowed in this discussion. It should have been Abby alone with the other participants. She wasnt allowed to voice her own opinion! Why the h*** did you pay for speech therapy if you weren't going to let her talk? Shame on you lady. Furthermore, she caused such a problem that the other great things from this discussion aren't being talked about. So I want to add, this has been the most useful discussion on here that I've watched. I am so grateful y'all did this. I was not diagnosed with my ADHD until my mid 20s and really given no info about it. I'm 51 and just now really becoming educated about it. The last couple of years I've also become sure I'm on the spectrum and have discalculia as well but masked well enough I fell through the cracks. In part, I think because I grew up in the 70s and 80s and am female. I relate strongly to this conversation without going into a lot of detail because I'll give way too much. But it was such a relief hearing others that felt like me.
I think the "finding a job is harder with autism" prompt should not have been patreon exclusive. Idk how they go in depth about it on patreon but it is such an important and frightening statistic how hard it is for us to get jobs, even if we are fully educated and trained, the unemployment rate of autistic individuals is *so high*
big agree. the moment i mention a disability, radio silence
Especially because people who don't have money to see the Patreon prompt may be the people who relate to that prompt most!
fr its shocking that they would make that patreon exclusive
my exact thought
yeah it's kinda ironic to put the "people might have a harder time finding jobs" behind a paywall where "people who have a harder time finding jobs" are unable to see it.
I'm sorry, cutting the part about their barriers to employment and sending people to Patreon to pay and see that part is crraazzyyy 😂
I always forget they do that and I'm like 'oh I look forward to this prompt' and then they're like 'ya gotta pay for it' lol
They pick the prompt everyone was here for the most to put behind a paywall, because you know, the disabled want to know how to find an job easier from people who had and why would a company give that info out for free when they could scalp you for it?
So rude, ofc they would make you pay for the prompt that people would benefit from seeing 🤦♀️
That’s very funny I’m sorry
Especially cause I’m interested in listening, but as an autistic person myself… I don’t have the money!
Abbie’s situation is difficult.
watch how she watches her mom on how to respond. It’s not clear whether she has developed self governance based off of what her mom says because she’s been infantilized, or if as a part of her learning disability she doesn’t know how to respond based on what her opinions are and is relying on her mother to help her do that.
in many ways that may also be the product of 20 years of her mom being that same support system and necessary guidance that got her to where she is today. It’s important to note that crashes and meltdowns for grade 2+ can result in digression of speech patterns, habit formation, masking and etc, so it’s not as simple as just set Abbie free to the wind and let her explore on her own. In cases where they aren’t able to be fully independent or self-sufficient, you have to develop very strategic contingency plans with small incremental goals towards that. Her mom clearly has given her life to her and has a strong sense of protection for her daughter, but its unclear whether it has contributed to Abbie being able to express her own feelings when she does feel fit..
Well in fairness she acts exactly the same on Love on the Spectrum. And on episodes are just based around Abbey, her mom isn’t in the picture at all (as it should be) .
One of my issues with Abby's mom is how invalidating she was. I wasnt diagnosed autistic until this year (31 Hispanic male) I didnt need therapy to speak but that doesn't mean my life has been without struggle. Ive struggled with clinical depression all my life probably from my needs not being met and because I went diagnosed all my life I dont even know who I am. I dont know where my mask ends and where I begin. If there is 50 different ways to he autistic or 100 or 1000 it doesn't take away anything from what Abby has achieved. We all struggle differently.
I'm a woman diagnosed at 28. People role their eyes when I say that thinking I'm trying to be trendy. I've been told my entire life I'm autistic by teachers, doctors, etc. I just wasn't allowed to be tested because my religious parents. So I grew up being othered and bullied and I always was alone. I was punished for stimming, for not being like everyone else. Being diagnosed was so powerful because it allowed me to forgive myself.
That is amazing to hear and shows how much of a personal matter it is 🖤
Yes! This is why i found it so harmful when Christine said that "being autistic is trendy" on TikTok. When that sentiment is pushed, it makes it hard for late diagnosed/high masking folks to be believed and as a result it makes it harder to get support.
Very much relate to this! ❤
yes, people seem to think they are being helpful by talking about how autism is trendy and that it hurts “real” autistic people, but instead they are hurting autistic people by spreading the idea that it’s trendy, because people who are high masking or low support needs will be invalidated by being seen as just following a trend. just because it’s being talked about and becoming more normalised doesn’t mean that it’s trendy.
I am sorry you got punished for stimming, I can relate a little. I was frequently told not to rock back and forth and didn't know I was doing it and felt like I was creepy or strange because of it.
I can’t believe a random participant had to redirect and ask Abbey her strengths after her literal mom pointed out her “deficits”😭
Personally I agree. I don't know for certain but I have seen their content before and found myself feeling unsettled. They seem so focused on Abby being "functional" and "talking normally". She mimics her mum and in their other content might say something and her mum corrects her.I mean she's in ABA which I also found hard to hear but she said she liked it. I'm not saying anything for definite! Just explaining my feelings and discomfort which means nothing.
Yeah, it felt weird the way she was constantly speaking for Abby as well
@@user-vg6cx5de9cshe genuinely doesn’t know any different, her mother is extremely controlling and is your typical puzzle piece autism mom
@@myribunt5261 parents of children with Autism often have to dedicate and sacrifice a lot more of themselves to help their children than parents of neurotypical children. Her mum is probably there for emotional support and helping her to communicate her thoughts in a way that others would understand. Parent like this needs to be praised and appreciated.
@@meowgirlcowshe (abbeys mom) has explicitly stated that she is not autistic herself
I think this discussion needed the voice of a late diagnosed autistic person. Christine seemed to put down late diagnosed people she asked why a person aged 35 would seek an autism assessment due to the fact that they had children and a successful career. Many people need to be educated on autism and it saddens me that a mother of an autistic daughter is so uneducated and also so firm on keeping autism an exclusive term to people with medium to high support needs. I hope people dont take her opinion too seriously because i believe that when people say these things it encourages ableism and sets our society backwards keeping us further from progression.
Well said!
Also non verbal representation, so many people are still able to communicate with things like AAC
preach!
I fully agree! She said something like “They’re 35, trying to get a diagnosis with a college degree and two kids. Did you have speech therapy? Why do you need the diagnosis?” And that actually really upset me. If this person is neurodivergent, imagine what their college experience would have been like if they were afforded the accommodations they needed! Maybe they would have benefited from speech therapy. I think Christine has a very narrow view of something that is literally a spectrum.
Exactly!
I clicked because I follow Abby on instagram and wanted to see her speak without her mom asking her questions and leading the conversation. So disappointed when she was in the seat next to her.
Me too, it was really disappointing
I really appreciate the mediator sitting with the people, it made them more active and less just someone shouting behind the camera.
i so agree
GEN is awesome. He's been a moderator before (he also has his own youtube channel). Hope they make him come back
Thank you! It was a pleasure hosting
@@sselemaNrMappreciate the support - thanks for watching
It made me really sad that abby was not going to ageee with the prompt that its better for autistic people to date within the community but walked forward when her mom did. Her mom just totally spoke for her and also then abbys reaction to her mom saying she wouldnt be comfortable with abby dating someone nerotypical and abbys reaction to that. Honeslty it felt like her mom was implying someone who is nurotypical dating her would be almost taking advantage of her felt really gross. Someone does not need to be autistic to be able to relate, understand, care for and love someone who is austistic. I would have loved to hear what abbys actual feelings about it were.
THIS. All of it.
Believing it’s better for autistic people to date other autistics is damaging to both those with autism and those who are neurotypical; it widens the gap between autistics and NT which contradicts the hope of aiming for acceptance that many, if most, people with autism want.
I’m not trying to downplay the care Abbey’s mom has for her, but Abbey deserves better.
Well how do you know she doesn't feel the same as her mother? Maybe they've discussed this privately before. Maybe she wants her mother to speak for her like this. There are a few things that you are assuming
@@Scooterbeerrun Maybe because that attitude is very common in parents of autistic people and you can see her mom literally controlling the narrative on the video on multiple occasions and making it about herself when she is not, as she herself said, neurodivergent. There's this tendency for parents of autistic kids to appropriate their children's diagnosis as a personality trait and to make a flaming torch that they wave everywhere about how much THEY have suffered because of their kids diagnosis and how much they know about it while actually never experiencing it, taking attention away from the actual person with the diagnosis and speaking in behalf of or over them, a fundamental reason why the term "autism mom" has such a bad reputation. Yes, we cannot 100% know what the situation actually is behind the scenes and what these people's lives have been like but we have enough examples and personal experiences to notice the patterns, and that woman is certainly sounding red alarms for most people on the spectrum who watched the video.
You said exactly what I was thinking.
@@exhaustedpunk1477without knowing then you'd be doing the same thing which is assuming you have their experience and trying to speak for them
props to Adin for subtly calling out Abbey's mom, and for directing the question about strengths to her. he was the highlight of the video for me, as a fellow autistic person -- incredibly intelligent, thoughtful, and compassionate.
Yes literally king move from him
@@marxistyogamom2982 I remember catching that but I don’t remember what it was(I have very short memory span sometimes)time stamp?
@@Riley.-sJoy47:30
@@wht-pny I didn't see it that way, to me it seems like she was pointing to people seeing autism on such a wide spectrum as detrimental to those who have a significant disability as their form of autism because it groups such a large variety of people under one definition. Some people have crippling disabilities as a result of their autism and some do not. I think Abbey's mom advocates well for her and it seems like Abbey needs that level of assistance and advocating for.
Nobody is disabled unless they are being asked to do something they can not do and society asks a lot of people.
49:30 No Abbey's mom, your "biggest problem" isn't that the terms for the levels of autism aren't differentiated enough, your biggest problem is that you seem to be building your whole sense of identity around savioring your daughter and being the biggest victim. If a level 1 autistic person's life and mental health improve as a result of being diagnosed at a late age, and that BOTHERS you, then you need to do some serious self reflection. Every person's struggle is relative. Your struggle and Abbey's struggle isn't any less valid because other people have struggled with less. I hope you can understand that one day and learn to have peace and not need to compare yourself to others in order to find validation.
As a late diagnosis autistic I would love to see a middle ground on early intervention vs late diagnosis
Totally agree!
As a late diagnosis ADHDer I fully agree
this
Yes! I was going to say this.
I LOVE THIS IDEA!
I'm sure the mom means well, but jfc her talking over Abbey and just generally not understanding autism as a spectrum was so hard to watch. LET ABBEY TALK SHE WORKED SO HARD FOR IT 😭
Literally, she worked 20+ years for this moment! I understood what Abby's mom said about Autism and ADHD becoming trendy on social media and the concerns about that. However I think it was misguided and she didn't actually think there was a spectrum and if you don't fit the mold you're pandering for clout.
@@circular_enigmai think she's more talking about people who specifically only have sensory issues maybe shouldn't be clumped into autism because it just makes the spectrum way too wide. like they can just have sensory issues and it have nothing to do with autism
There is a point to this. Even as treatment professionals, there is disagreement with the criteria list being so wide.
We are still in an understanding infancy stage in learning, understanding and supporting those who have a neurodivergent diagnosis.
@@lexir7504sensory issues are the most disabling part!
@@circular_enigmaI think people should probably stay in their lane and avoid projecting onto others. We can’t possibly know if these people do or don’t have asd or adhd.
I'm a little concerned how Abbey always looked to her mom to decide which prompt she agrees with
For real she seemed quite overbearing and her hate towards social media while still continuing to create a platform is kinda funny
Abbey's mom has turned her daughter into her career. There's a reason why so many actually autistic people are so turned off by her. It's painful to see how treats and talks about her daughter. All while thinking she's a hero for being an Austism Mom
Abbey’s mom has always been her biggest aid in helping Abbey be a part of the neurotypical world, and thus gain independence and being able to express herself (and understand orhers) in a way that is going to be percieved accurately by the mainstream. Abbey does not have the skills and tools to do this independently yet, which is why she is looking to her mom to confirm that the way Abbey is interpeting the questions and interactions is correct.
@@amandablomquist5678 I think it would be nice if Abbey was able to just sit in a safe space and give her opinions without her mom. Her mother could be there on the sidelines. She might still struggle socially but this was a completely safe space for her to practice using her voice on her own. Abbey is very insightful and intelligent.
I think her mom is extremely overprotective, which I understand but she needs to cut the apron strings.
@@amberx0xo I completely agree with you. Abbey is an adult and she should be allowed to share her voice freely. She is insightful and intelligent. She does need support but is also an adult who deserves to explore her independence. Abbey's voice is important to help people understand how autistic minds process life. Her mom treats her like a child. And in my opinion her views of being an autistic person are antiquated and she keeps trying to pathologize autistic people. Even the guy who brought his mom to his audition didn't have her sitting next to him.
Wow, Abby stepping forward because she agrees that she finds the term 'disabled' offensive and her mom telling her "I think you should go back there." And Abby does it. I feel so sorry for Abby to have such a controlling mother that doesn't let her think and speak for herself, undermines her agency and disregards her boundaries. Abby obviously finds the term 'disabled' offensive and her mother keeps calling her that. I wish Abby the strength to emancipate herself from her mother and find other people to rely on who treat her with respect.
I see a lot of people making excuses for her mom in the comments but there's genuinely no excuse for this specific moment. Genuinely a control freak.
yeah, i was looking for this comment. not even a minute into a video and it starts like that? wow. that's really awful
I disagree here. It seemed as though Abby changed her mind and then got confused about where to stand. Her mom was just telling her where they were supposed to stand
@@laurelfscientist That is possible, we don't know from watching. I actually ended up glad my parents are not involved in my life when I met and became very close friends with a mother daughter duo where the daughter has autism and the mother "is her person." It broke my heart and I had to cut the friendship because the mother forces the daughter to live how she thinks she should even when the daughter very clearly expresses that doing the thing will harm her. Mom makes her do the thing to blend in, it is so hard to watch an adult be kept under the thumb of their parent under the guise of support.
I think she wanted to step forward, but was confused because her mom didn't come, so started to go back. But she was going back to the neurotypical side, so that's where her mom told her to go back to the other side, to the neurodivergent group.
I’m glad the moderator is within the conversation now because it helps to prevent people from being attacked and spoken over like it happened for example with the trans episode
Soooo true, and the person asking the questions on the trans episode was super bias
I like this too, and I am glad that the moderator is asking additional questions to allow people to clarify their points and elaborate.
Gen has a youtube channel. He is a great guy.
Y'all bring that up every episode it's so tiring
@@taylorrhoades6660 womp womp
Adin asking Abbey what her strengths are was such a boss move. It seems like her mom only wants to talk about the negatives.
Yeah, i'm glad he asked her directly instead of the mom talking for her
I think the reason she talks a lot for abby is because she knows the depth of what she can understand. She isn't being negative, she is just really trying to get people to understand that abby does have a different form of autism, and abby herself can not explain it in a way we would quite understand. It was super sweet of him to do that tho!
@@jessamcintyre2954 She can't possibly know more than Abbey herself and your assertion that a neurotypical person would understand autistic people better than the actual autistic person and the rest of the community is incredibly ableist. If you mean well please educate yourself better and don't defend non autistic people talking over autistic people.
@@debbieparnell7582as someone with autism I'm very aware that the way I try to explain thing can miss when speaking to neurotypical ppl. And while I wouldnt want most people to try to explain something as if they know better then me theres one exception. My closest family. The ones who advocated for me when I couldn't figure it out when i was young. Who listened to every explanation i gave and tried to make sense of it. My mother can explain things in ways I'd never think too that doesnt mean my mom knows what's wrong better then me but it does mean shes better at communicating with neurotypical and "translating" what I want to say.
One of my biggest issues was how she knew using the term Aspergers is upsetting to a lot of people, even if it isn't to others, and kept rolling with it multiple times over. I think Abbey can speak for herself more than her mom let her but it can become habit if she's the neurotypical translator more often than not. I commend Abbey for all the work she's done and all of her strengths and weeknesses. I wish I could've heard it from her, whether I would have completely understood or not.
Abbey’s mom irritated me this entire video. As someone who was diagnosed at 18, she made me feel extremely invalidated and her comment about how 35 year olds shouldn’t seek out a diagnosis because they’re successful is so damaging and disheartening. Autistic people deserve to know that they’re autistic and deserve help and accommodations at any age.
Also I hate that she addressed the fact that Asperger’s is no longer a term that should be used and then USED IT???? Blows my mind.
I've been trying to seek an autism evaluation and yeah I was thinking the same thing. It feels awful. I'm not trying to seek an evaluation because it's "trendy" I'm doing it because I've struggled all of my life
yeah abbey's mum is fucked up, the way she's turned her daughter into content to begin with is fucked up. but then she also addresses abbey as if she's a child
Thank you!
as someone who was diagnosed between 16 it also made me feel shitty. she's the type of person to think that if someone was not diagnosed when they were 5 its not a real diagnosis.
I hope Abbeys mom reads these comments and learns from this. She really doesn’t seem to understand her daughter or anyone on the spectrum; as well as not understanding high masking neurodivergent people. She seems to have a self centred and close minded mindset as well as a bit of a victim mentality.
The fact that the job question is put behind a paywall for this topic is appalling. A lot of autistic people myself included need help with getting a job it’s terribly hard. No job means no extra money for things like patreon. This question should have been free for the help it could have brought to other autistic individuals who desperately need need help in this area.
They pulled a Logan Paul
the irony
You expect answers for really crucial questions from jubilee?
for real!
@@kayhaichthere are not so many panels of autistic people talking about their experiences. We take what we can
this is for adin specifically: you are an absolutely charming individual, sincere and kind and please don't take this lightly because it's not a feeling I get often but I really wish you were my friend. I'm autistic too and I understand that feeling of unbearable loneliness and I understand how hard it can be to make friends, but just know that if you managed to captivate a complete stranger on the internet (me!) then I'm sure there are people in your life who are dying to be your friend! (edit: spelling)
I felt this way too! Idk if it makes a difference but I’m not currently using an autism label, but I am still neurodivergent. I was just really impressed by his level of observation, compassion, self-reflection, patience and kindness. Not to mention how well he was able to articulate those insights, even if that’s not his typical behavior 24/7. He had such a grasp on nuances of topics and obviously thought about them carefully and sincerely, which is just such an amazing trait to have.
@@GamerGirl2347 you said it better than I could. that is exactly it! I'm sure he's not like that 24/7 and I hope he doesn't take it as a sign he needs to _always_ be like that to be liked, but damn I just really liked him lol. just a really cool guy!
I feel you, it’s thanks to people like him that I keep faith in humanity.
And that it’s not just being naive to think there are genuine people trying their best to act with kindness.
waw this makes my heart melt, you give me faith in humans. Thank you for taking the time to highlight someone's journey
Same here! His charm instantly resonated with me. Its very rare that I see someone and wish to be their friend so badly I would be willing to initiate conversation. But thats how I felt listening to Adin talk.
I appreciate Ian's honesty when he said he has looked down on people with autism and it's honestly it's disappointing that no one else came forward. I'm autistic and I definitely have looked down on others with autism. "Looking down on" doesnt have to be something as outwardly discrimatory as exclusion but can be as simple as a negative thought or irritation directly related to someone's autism like Ian had mentioned. I think most if not all of them have been there at least once. We live in an ableist society.. we've been conditioned by an ableist society. A lot of us who do have autism have internalized this and as bad as it sounds, ableism seems to be the norm for most neuorotypicals.
agree 🫂
Yup, cant agree more. Being an undiagnosed autistic kid i was almost completely taught to look down on autistic people, so of course i not only internalized it but externalized it and made others feel worse to make sure i fit in. Its not something im proud of but its something i like to share to show that people can unlearn these ableist stereotypes.
i even ended up looking down upon my autistic peers in an attempt to fit in and seem more likeable to my friends.
I agree he was the most honest
I have absolutely looked down on people for being autistic, as a late diagnosed autistic who masks heavily, people who don't mask tend to get on my nerves, and I know that's not their fault, that's on me to deal with lol
It's like, I've spent my whole life trying to figure out how to act in every situation, what script to follow and how to make everyone around me comfortable, and when non masking autistic people just do whatever they want it disrupts my whole system
I mean, I wish I could unmask like them but I'm too much of a people pleaser for that lol
Adin is such a light! Austin as well, In fact, everyone really is so beautiful and kind. Honestly...
except Christine. I know she loves Abby very much, she's probably been in her corner and helped her become more communicative throughout the years. I know Christine loves Abby and is probably her biggest supporter and cheerleader but she's literally cutting her off at the knees by not allowing Abby to just be. Christine didn't need to be there. Abby can advocate for herself. Abby needs to be able to learn and grow away from her mom. It's imperative for her to be whole. Her independence contributes to her wholeness. She's deserving of a full life, not just because of her Autism but simply because she exists.
I hope Abbey's mum reads some of these comments!! Imagine thinking autism has only deficits and saying it about her own daughter - props to Adin for being so empathetic and asking Abbey her strengths. I'm 35 and was diagnosed two years ago, I have a job, a house, I'm married so I guess I'm just doing it because it's trendy, not because support needs change over time /s
Idk, Adin doesn't have to take care of someone who isn't highly functioning.
so how exactly did your life change before and after sonejnd told you that you’re on the spectrum?
I agree. She seems to be gatekeeping diagnostic criteria. Having a diagnosis as an adult can help you understand yourself better, learn to relate to others, etc. "Did they have years of speech therapy?" is a really asinine question. Some "obviously" autistic people never had speech therapy. She's wrapped up in how Abbey and others she knows manifest their autism. I hope she can open her mind to the fact that the spectrum truly is vast.
Also wtf was that about how beautiful Asperger's is?? Does she think her daughter got the wrong kind of autism? It's just weird and gross because by saying successful individuals can't be disabled, you're directly implying your own daughter can never be successful
After describing her brother’s sensory struggles, and seeing her black and white thinking, I would not be surprised if Abbey’s mom is also autistic. So many autism moms have undiagnosed autism, and could never consider themselves autistic because they have a very narrow view of what autism is.
I really loved this episode, but I hope Abbey's mom re-thinks Abbey's autism as just a "deficit". The way that Abbey seemed to hesitate to agree that autism is a strength just made me think maybe she's internalized some negative stuff about her autism. As someone on the spectrum, I may have less support needs than Abbey, but I know we both have experienced autistic joy. It's truly unique being able to get so much happiness from your special interest, and to be able to present yourself with pure authenticity. Autism is not a deficit, it is simply experiencing a world we were not made to thrive in. I hope she is able to treasure both the differences we have and the challenges.
It's labelled "high" and "low" support needs now. ❤
But Abbey's mom has a LOT of ableism when regarding anyone with abilities beyond that of her own daughter and seems to disparage/ignore how capable Abbey really is.
For sure! This could affect Abbey and probably already is. I think Abbey seems so sweet, and she needs to know she is special, and her being autistic is not a bad thing.
Yeah, I totally agree. I used to really like her mum and wasn’t really understanding why people are so critical of her, but after watching this, I kind of agree. I wish Abbey had done this alone without her mum butting in so much
@@gabriellabermanAbbey autism is a deficit regardless of what anyone thinks. Her life is limited because of it and she lives in a world not designed for her. It’s just a fact.
@@cameronhowe1110 the autism is not a decifit. Some of the symptoms she has from her autism are decifits, but not her autism as a whole. Autism is a part of who we are. Calling our autism a decifit is calling us decifits
I'm really concerned about Abbey's mom. Since the Love On The Spectrum show she seems like has been speaking for Abbey even tho Abbey at some points has shown being capable of speaking for herself and has shown it over and over. It would be totally fine if she was in the backstage aiding her since Abbey needs a bigger support and at the moment is so dependent of her, but being at her side speaking on things that Abbey could have expressed her opinion really frustrated me. I come from overly protective parents who also spoke for me sometimes and I had to break che cycle at some point because it can become ridiculously frustrating. But IT SEEMS like Abbey's mom never had let her be by herself, not even in a Jubilee video, this concerns me A LOT about Abbey's health in the long term.
Totally, I have been there too. I do wonder if Abbey just wants her Mum to sit with her and Mum just can't keep out of it?
i used to think the same way. but now I have kids and I can see why some parents can becomes "control freak"..is because this kind of situation changes people, when you worry about someone 24/7 for many many years... it's such a weight for so many parents that they are the one who can't let it go.
Agreed!
Tbh I have mixed feelings about this because I feel like both the parents spoke on behalf of their kids and it's not like Abbey never got a chance to speak. They can have different opinions/see things differently.
We spectators cannot know how far Abbey has come because of her mom. Though we see her mom act like a coach, none of us can know whether Abbey has all the lifeskills to continue her progress without her mom yet. So- maybe let them be
❤ I am 69 and I believe I have always been autistic, they diagnosed me as major depression, and bipolar, as a teen I also used alcohol and smoked pot to clam me down,to be able to communicate with others . The world was cruel in my times , you was labeled different , so thankful things have changed
I think Chris is one of the most well spoken and calm people I have ever seen. I was very very surprised when he said he was 16
Omg I was surprised too
you obviously haven’t seen many people in your life lmfao🥱🥱 can we stop saying that people who are speaking regularly just because they are on the spectrum are the MOST well spoken and calm people you’ve EVER met. he spoke and acted how every person in the world is expected to act. are we supposed to give him a medal?
@@alexad7592 chris is neurotypical...? he's a 16 yo, that's the impressive part lmao. let the ableism rest for a moment, hon
@@alexad7592 Actually, Chris is not even on the spectrum. You must be living under a rock if you believe that most teenagers are as mature, empathetic and well spoken as he is.
Me too
Admin describing his loneliness made me genuinely cry.
I’m not autistic but I feel his pain deeply, emotions are universal even if we experience them differently.
I feel for you Adin, you’re not alone even if it feels that way!
I don't like how Abbey's mom told her where to go. First question she got up but her mom told her to go back and then she waited for her moms decision the rest of the video. I love Abbey so much and think she would be much more independent without her mom lurking and policing her every move.
the mum didnt want abbey moving or being anywhere without her. maybe its a fear response, thinking abbey is so dependent. at the end, abbey sits apart from her mum and the NT(?) tries to swap seats seemingly at the mums behest, but abbey stays the course. it ends up being critical in the end since adin is able to ask abbey directly and abbey doesnt look to her mum for advice.
Omg thanks for pointing that out I just noticed that with the first question, that's disturbing.
She went to the wrong side. She initially went to walk up and changed her mind but went back to the neurotypical side so her mom said go to the other side
Yes, I think her mom saying to go to the other side was completely fine. However, it seemed to me that she changed her mind on going forward because her mom wasn't going forward. When she saw her mom was staying back she stared at her mom, unsure of what to do, and her mom beckoned to come to her. I think she's used to just following her mom's opinions and doing what she says like an obedient child instead of thinking for herself like the adult she is. @@pinkmoonbaby
@@chessmanwriter12you should watch love on the spectrum, you’ll see her mom is very supportive .
I feel like Abbey's mom infantilizes her and Abbey is so used to it that she sometimes infantilizes herself. It's sad to watch.
Bit late, but I'm glad to see this comment.
Idk their day to day life but I got that same feeling. You can see how much she looks to her mom for validation and to explain for her.
While it looks like a bit much we also just don't know where Abby would be without the resources her ma has helped her with.
I can't also imagine being a mom and the constant worry you'd have for your baby who you know doesn't see the world in the NT way. Doesn't want her to be taken advantage of, etc.
i got the same thing
Abbey is so much more capable than her mom gives her credit for.
Yes her Mom was talking over her a lot. Would have been more interesting not to have Mom here.
@@gogogadgetabbyyes, you can even hear her cutting her off to speak over her at one point
agee her mom has always rubbed me the wrong way. just because abbey had learning deficits doesn’t mean she’s not capable of being mature. it seems like her mom treats her like a child
Agree! I noticed her tapping her leg a lot too basically telling her to stop what she was doing and every time there was a prompt, Abbey would wait for her mum to step forward before also doing so.
@tayamcm7046 I noticed the 2nd thing, but I didn't notice the 1st. She is literally there to speak on her own experience. I hope she gets independent enough one day to get away.
I can totally relate to Abbey when she said her brain won't do what she tells it to do. As someone with ADHD, I constantly struggle with getting my brain to cooperate as well. It's so frustrating, but it's nice to know that I'm not alone in this experience. Thank you for this video, Jubilee!
ME TOOO
SAME😭
Same, and I also think in categories like Abbey, but I have ADHD and not autism
Fr that's my exact experience. Like on the inside I'm 'normal' and can think coherently but somewhere there's a loose connection and I can't always express it the way I want to.
@@emmacurtis2270 Autism and ADHD and Anxiety all can have overlapping symptoms. Neurodivergence is neurodivergence
Abbey’s mom’s take on the “trend” of autism bothered me a little bit. You don’t need speech, occupational, etc. therapy to be valid in your autism diagnosis. The diagnosis in itself can be purely necessary for someone’s mental state. I know growing up with adhd, getting that diagnosis at the age of 12 made me feel so much better. I thought I was a failure and couldn’t focus because I was lazy. Learning it was neurodivergence allowed me to accommodate myself more than anything. I don’t have an IEP & I never did. I made it through school with no accommodations from the district. Just knowing that my issues were not based on a lack of will power allowed me to go so much further & believe in myself so much more.
I’m so happy I’m not the only one who had a problem with that. I noticed things different about me as early as grade 3 but never considered myself to be autistic because I didn’t ’fit the bill’ in my eyes because I didn’t act like other autistic kids (the very little who were around me) or go to speech therapy for a long time. But lo and behold years later at the age of 16 about to turn 17 last year figured out I am indeed autistic. It helped me figure out so many things about myself and why I am the way I am
Yeah that mom is such sn Autism Mom. She probably loves Autism Speaks and whines on the Autism Mom reddit subs about how her life is hard.
She is insufferable
@@miik7064I second this.
Not to mention… getting a diagnosis is so so so difficult. It’s so damn expensive. At the age of 18 most people are on their own, most being university students who come from a poor background trying to be financially independent. That’s my story, I’m sure there are plenty others out there who know somethings up and who are experiencing the raw weight of autism or any other neurodivergent “problem”, but they can’t access help unless they get diagnosed.
That should really be studied.
She definitely seemed a bit entitled about her daughter being early diagnosed… which saddens me because in Love on the Spectrum they got to work with a late diagnosed coach 🥲 I’m late diagnosed and it’s really frustrating to hear her say things like that… we aren’t lost causes just because it took us longer to get recognized, we deserve to understand ourselves too.
Abby’s mom reminds me of my mom, and that’s not a compliment… I wish she had more faith in her daughter instead of just looking at her like a project to be fixed
Exactly yes 💯 esp the part of her daughter having a deficit while others with autism just have a difference
@@MBTIologyyeah that part was CRAZY. Although there were a lot of moments like that 😬
Abbey is autistic but also has an intellectual disability. Her mother doesn't seem to realize those are separate diagnoses. You do not need to have an ID in order to be autistic. ASD is a neurotype that impacts the way we perceive and experience the world and society. I sailed through my academics without trying before college. I didn't need more than a year of speech. I had no iep. At the same time, the world has always been too bright, smelly, and loud. I didn't understand social hierarchy. I never maintained more than one friend at a time. I spent most of my time inside my own head. Some of my earliest memories are of not understanding humans because my brain is neurodivergent and I have always thought differently.
If you listen to any of Abbey's mum's videoes she talks proudly about training autistic traits out of Abbey.
What is her channel? That's concerning
Damn... That sucks
How do you know she has an intellectual disability?
I also reacted when Abby’s mom said that she didn’t like the idea of people who sort of seemed to manage through life were looking for a diagnosis.. Autism is not always visible for other people, it’s a lot of draining masking and getting a diagnosis can really help with understanding oneself.
I know this isn't the point of your comment, nor that you are saying this. However, I just want to add, you don't need to have ID to have disability supports or an IEP. There are people with moderate or severe support needs with normal to high intelligence as well.
as someone who is autistic (diagnosed late), i think many people look down on others who have autism, and dont admit it. i admire the dude for saying he did!
same, before I was diagnosed I thought I could never be autistic because I had this made up image in my head of what autism was-like people with autism should be pitied. Obviously that isn’t true and I don’t believe it anymore, but that’s what was ingrained in me.
I mean, I think everyone else just wasnt aware of the times in which they have been judgemental. I'd say it's impossible to not be judgemental when "autistic" is treated as an insult or when stimming is seen as childish and weird behaviour...etc. And I'd say it's extremely important to be aware of those times in which society catches us in its web of prejudiced beliefs, because that's when we start to untangle that web.
@@tedddybear I was diagnosed late and this was my exact experience. I'm ashamed that I looked down on them cos I had this stereotype of what autistic people were like
i think that looking down on autistic people is built into our social structures and hierarchies. i remember as a child, and growing up high masking and undiagnosed, i just understood that there were "weird kids" and "cool kids." i knew that i wasn't really supposed to like the "weird kids", and i was supposed to be more like the "cool kids." it's deeply embedded in our culture and in others, even down to our ideas of "cringe," of what's considered cool and uncool. finding out i'm autistic and deconstructing my masks has been very intertwined with deconstructing how i view society and social hierarchy, and how society categorizes people by their personality expression.
I was on a mixed gender mental health ward and no one looked down on autistic patients. If anything we had our little friend groups consisting of people with straight up autism and those with Asperger’s which is now under Autism. It was unique as we were all 20-30s aged.
Completely started crying when Adin was talking during the "I have trouble making friends" prompt. He completely summed up how I have always felt, (but the opposite, I am a girl) where girls had bullied me more than boys at my school, and still to this day I have trouble finding female friends but tend to gravitate more towards male friends. Such an interesting realization and I really connected with his words, even the music part.
I relate to you a lot ❤
That was heartbreaking, the emotion in his voice :( I hope he finds the friend group he’s looking for and deserves
I'm the same as you but with drawing instead of music
Christine, “They don’t use the term Asperger’s any more.”
Then repeatedly uses the term Asperger’s.
Christine then gets annoyed that there are, according to her, 50 levels of autism.
No, Christine. There are 3 levels of autism.
You’re just annoyed that Abbey is at level 2.
All it means is that Abbey requires substantial support, which Christine knows.
She’s just annoyed because she is still operating under the outdated idea that Abbey isn’t “high functioning”, which she probably takes to mean that Abbey isn’t very smart.
I am level 1. That doesn’t mean I am better than Abbey
I just require less support. I still require support.
In fact, Abbey makes more money than me, due to things like this video.
I didn't know about the levels of autism! Just read a paper about it. Thanks for sharing
@@jordanjohnson6229Those levels are still not super telling, outside of clinical indicators that are more often than not used for medical and billing paperwork than to describe autists (because, as described, it's a spectrum and not one autist is the same or has the same needs).
this is the most grounded and respectful episode of middle ground i think i've seen. everyone is so empathetic and respectful. i want to give all of these people a hug
for real
Me too!!❤
I feel like most of us on the spectrum are highly empathetic because the masking necessitates constant putting ourselves in other people’s shoes to figure out what they want
That's because they're touching on neuro conditions they're born with, whether its ND or NT. Its not a debate where people can really take sides
If they brought on an offensive neurotypical person, I don't think this episode would have been nearly as grounded and respectful
I understand that Abbey needs an aide, and I can see how her mom is probably overprotective because of Abbey’s needs; however, I didn’t like how Abbey’s mom told her to go back on the first question, how she said she thought autism was not a strength, her weird take on autism being a trend, and how she seemed to control Abbey’s behavior. Having grown up with a very controlling parent, I can see some clear signs that something is off in their dynamic. Does Abbey need a lot of support? Yes, but her and her mom’s body language showed that Abbey’s mother dictates what she should say or do. Abbey looks at her before saying or doing anything. Coming from someone who used to have similar behaviors because I was scared of my parent, that is very concerning.
I believe at the beginning when her mom told her to go back, it’s because Abbey went the wrong way; she was walking to where the neurotypical people stood rather than to the chairs. Interestingly, I perceived much of what you observed differently. I think it can become very hard to interpret situations, especially when autism is involved, as it is a spectrum and each individual’s social profile is unique. Abbey and her mom both explain how she struggles with expressive communication and thinking in categories, so I interpreted Abbey looking to her mom as getting confirmation that what she is adding to the conversation is relevant and understandable. Of course, I could be wrong!
Personally I agree. I don't know for certain but I have seen their content before and found myself feeling unsettled. They seem so focused on Abby being "functional" and "talking normally". She mimics her mum and in their other content might say something and her mum collects her.I mean she's in ABA which I also found hard to hear but she said she liked it. I'm not saying anything for definite! Just explaining my feelings and discomfort which means nothing.
I see what you are talking about. However, she didn't give me the impression of someone on a power trip, but someone who deeply loves her daughter. No parent is going to be perfect. She is still going to have biases. At the end of the day though she seems to understand her daughter extremely well and advocates for her. Look for the things she is trying to control. She is trying to control things to make her daughters life easier. My mom was very controlling, but also didn't pick up on signs that I was struggling. Creating a stable environment for someone can look controlling. You have to look to see if that person's individual needs are being met. The only thing I would push back on is being so skeptical of people getting diagnoses as adults. Not all of us had parents who had the foresight to look after their child's mental health. Not all of us had robust support systems. Getting diagnoses as an adult could help many understand their past experiences from a different lens.
She is not controlling like someone on a power trip she is redirecting and often you have do do this a few times within one minute.. My daughter has severe autism. She can talk a little but not sentences and she's still in diapers. She's 20.
People often misunderstand this type of relationship. I don't know if you are familiar with the expression refrigerator mother. People often call the mom of a child with autism this because they seem cold torwards the child. They don't see them hug or kiss the kid and assume it's cause we don't want them or resent them but we do it for a reason. A lot of autistic kids will freak out and have an episode or scream if you hold them tight or kiss them. It's a sensory issue that they have and it's out if respect and love for them that we don't hug them.
I agree with you somewhat, as someone who also has autism. There were a few minutes where I wanted to say “let Abbey talk for herself!” I can tell that her mother cares for her deeply and has had to help her a lot. That is amazing. Though, I think as Abbey continues to get older, they will need to reassess what is actually working in their relationship and what level of autonomy or dependency Abbey feels comfortable with.
The fact that abbeys mom views people who can get a degree, have a family, etc as “not autistic” shows she views autism as debilitating and a block to success/an independent future. And it’s clear she has this mindset about abbey since 1) she identifies her as autistic/“accepts” her autism 2) infantilizes her 3) acts as if abbey can’t speak for herself. This behavior has always been evident on their tiktok. So incredibly sad that it isn’t more noticeable, her behavior is very restricting
I’m sure these comments will be a learning experience for her but I don’t think she had bad intentions with that remark. I think she just meant that because neurodiversity is “trending” and cool now, if you have never needed any help in life, what exactly are you searching for in your desire to be grouped into the label of autism. Maybe there is something else going on like simply a want/need to be different and be seen as different. I see both sides.
YES. she also continuously talked about asperger’s even though she acknowledged we don’t use that term anymore??? there’s a reason why it’s no longer diagnostically relevant and her thinking is so backwards and ignorant.
Did you not watch the show? She talks about that specifically on it. She’s had to take care of her her whole life, that’s a lot for someone to do. And she is excited that she’s finally found a guy that she can start a new way of life with because of it.
Ugh. That's awful. I have a degree and a job and a family, but I am completely overwhelmed by things other people find normal, it's not often for me to cry when a sudden schedule change happens. I've learned to operate in a neurotypical world, often at great discomfort, but that doesn't mean I'm not autistic.
Abbey's mom seems like she's done a hard job for a long time but she's definitely exploiting it a bit.
She really seems like that parent who is using her own daughter's neurological differences as a way to gain fame rather than promoting her daughter's independence.
Aww I wish Abbey’a mom wasn’t there so she could have been herself the whole time without being policed. She was so included at the very end and she was happy to sing for everyone and make her side comments. I see you, girl. Don’t let you mom tell you who and what you are.
She's a helicopter parent
@14:59 my heart melted 🥲 Abbey was so touched that Adin could relate. That was very deep to hear and truly a beautiful explanation from Abbey. I myself never thought of it that way, just wow ❤
She is just cute beyond measure
I really hope they kept in touch and became friends afterwards. They seem like they have a lot on common!
"i can mask, why can't you?" Perspective as a kid... Really nice to hear someone else talk about. When you're a kid being forced to act/behave a certain way (or else you get in trouble) it can be really confusing and frustrating to see others "get away" with being themselves. It's something that I had a really hard time understanding like why do I have to force a mask but others dont? Obviously as an adult my perspective has changed and i understand a lot more now that theres different spectrums and different expectations depending on family/etc. but overall- first time ive heard someone else share these struggles, really nice to not feel so alone
Yes, I had this exact problem! It was always so difficult for me to understand how someone else could just be completely themselves and not be embarrassed about it. My family was always so quick to point out and make fun of all my autistic traits so I had a deep urge to always hide them and it’s been so hard for me to unlearn that now that I’m an adult.
Abbey wanting to walk forward but the mom giving the eye to not made me feel like she was more controlled than anything she’s more capable then she’s given credit for that made me sad for her honestly.
Do you think Abey's mom could be emotionally exhausted from having someone lean on her like that for so long?
@@diepiriyei feel like thats the case
SAME
I immediately noticed this & didn't know the woman correcting her was her mom.
Austin gently touching James' shoulder when he talked about his health issues was very considerate... Some lovely people on this panel
abbey's mom frustrated me a lot as an autistic. absolutely horrible, and I hope abbey can see who she is without this infantilizing, ignorant person. I SO wish I could be there. lots of harm done by that person, and this is exactly who we speak of when we say "autism moms". the dad however, was really really cool. props to him.
I think she has just faught for help for so long she doesn't know how to let go. She's made it HER identity and purpose. A lot of parents feel this way. She just needs support to let go.
@liandajane3207 while this may be a factor in the way why the mother is like this, the question you should actually be asking is how can Abbey see this behavior, understand what it means, and develop a healthy relationship with the fact that she's autistic? that is a much more important question than the mom letting go of the fact that her child isn't a child anymore, and she cannot therefore have the same approach to Abbey as sue did when Abbey was a kid.
yeah i’m sad she implied that people who have gone a long time without a diagnosis are invalid for trying to get one late in life :( that IS Autism for some people!!
Yepppp! totally agree with you about Abbey's mom. I'm autistic too.
I have an autistic son and cringe whenever I see these moms whose whole identity is their child's diagnosis.
Wait did Abbey's mom just ironically stereotyped asd and say someone who is a funny comedian with a college degree, a wife and kids cant be autistic and seeks diagnosis for tiktok attention then ask "Did you even get speech therapy or anything? Why do you seek a diagnosis?" as if every autistic person needs to be like her daughter/need intensive intervention?? And no, people smart enough dont call themselves autistic only because of sensory processing disorder as there is an autism criteria beyond just that smh... Why did noone say anything? Its sad to see that she is pretty outdated. If a late diagnosed autistic person was there im pretty sure they wouldve said something. Its not cool to invalidate other people and accuse them of seeking attention or being trendy...
But what she said is true? People all over are treating autism like it's trendy and trying to be diagnosed or lying and labling themselves just for little quirk they have. Same thing with ADHD. It's ridiculous.
@@sjb5169you have absolutely no proof of that being definitively true or false, as you don’t know any of them individually. So don’t make a claim about something you don’t know
@shelly9 Do you live under a rock? It's obvious that it's become trendy. It's everywhere. There's articles about it. There is a huge increase in people wanting to be diagnosed with stuff or self diagnosing themselves. And multiple people being outted for pretending to have things like tourettes and autism for likes and views. Or People want attention or the need to be special so bad. So don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.
@@kissmyaxe9 I guess my comment got deleted? But just read an article about the uptick in self diagnosis and people faking disorders. It's a huge problem. It's going to make it harder for those adults who really do have disorders and want to get a late in life diagnosis without being dismissed by their doctors that they're just hoping on the trend of it being cool now.
@sjb5169 of course it is a problem, but you can't be sure of that about the comedian or anyone else that you don't know personally. The point of the comment is that the mother based off her experience with autistic individuals on someone else she doesn't know personally.
I think Abbey's mom might want to read Jennifer Cooke O'Toole's book Autism in Heels which highlights late-diagnosed individuals, including the author herself, and the important differences about women on the spectrum from men. I understand why she might make that comment about autism being "trendy", but there is a lot to learn about why so many people are getting diagnosed more. Getting a diagnosis at 38 was pretty huge for me, and yes, I was able to get occupational therapy after that and also make peace with some of my deficits from childhood and feel seen for years of masking.
100% agree. It really frustrated me when people say autism is trendy and people are just doing it for the trend. It's not fair. It hurts those struggling and self diagnosed to feel valid.
It really upsets me hearing this kind of thing. It’s the same for us ADHDers. Without the internet, I would never have been diagnosed. I think over diagnosing people is way less harmful than people being under diagnosed.
Some of us never had the chance to access mental health resources as adolescents, whether due to finances, culture, or accessibility.
Thanks for mentioning the book, I'll check it out.
literally upsetted me because people keep saying i couldnt have autism because i mask so well and i also am seen as a pretty girl. meanwhile i literally got taken advantage of and bullied in school for the reason of me being quiet and not being able to make friends even when i tried.
When abbey is by herself she has wonderful thoughtful responses, able to take her time and hold her own, then her mum sat next to her, she speaks for her a lot, talks over her etc
I really loved this middle ground. But I especially loved the way Adin interacted with Abbey. He found ways to engage with her on the topic in a way that was more approachable to her rather than having her just sit it out!
I agree, it was so lovely. I especially loved the ernding segment where they both sang!
YES I was also going to write an Adin appreciation comment. When he asked her to talk about her strengths at the end in that context it was really kind and powerful. They should do a duet 😤😤😤
Yeah this was great him asking her directly when her mum kept jumping in and answering for her
@@Whirlbee her mom was pissing me off a lot lol
Adin was just trying to get it wet…
Same reason he thinks neurotypical and austitics should date… more opportunity for ole Adin to get it wet.
Can I just say Chris is so respectful and knowledgeable!! He honestly seems like such a great guy, super well spoken and open. You can tell he was really paying attention to everyone’s words when speaking! I wish him well 😌
I can't believe he's only 16. Wow, just wow. He gives me hope for the next generation.
His parents are both special educators so he grew up in a household where acceptance and understanding and truly "listening" to other people was modeled and encouraged. I feel like whatever he decides to do with his life goals he's going to really positively impact those around him. I'm a high school counselor and I'd be so proud of him if he were my student for how he interacts with people.
@@HouseMDaddictwow what a unique family situation ! If only everyone could find similar support within their family unit, what a blessing!
@@HouseMDaddict Agree completely. I can only imagine how great his parents must be to raise such a well rounded young person like himself :) They should be so proud 🥲 I can see him thriving in any environment he finds himself in in the future!
@@leahcarnevale7340 exposure to different people and life experiences is such a valuable thing. He said he and his sister were in a preschool or something where they were the only neurotypical kids and those early interactions really do play a role on how your handle your interactions with people later in life. That's why I like that schools have allowed inclusive classrooms in the last decade or so. When I was in school prior to a decade ago kids who were neurotypical were often only allowed to interact with general education kids during specials (PE, art, music, etc) and lunch and then we had no way to get to know them outside of those situations which was really odd to me even as a student. When I worked in elementary schools in the last decade there were inclusive classrooms and there were no stigmas or anything and kids were all playing together like kids! Academically there might've been differences but at the end of the day they were kids getting to know each other as kids and it was amazing to see.
19:07 Wish they had had one late-diagnosed person. As someone diagnosed at age 30, I would have answered the "looked down on autistic people" VERY differently... Because I used to. A lot. And I learned it was a defensive coping mechanism because I saw parts of myself in them and I hated those parts of myself... Thus that hatred subconsciously came out at other autistic people. :/
i felt the same way about my autistic peers. i had a guy in my class who was diagnosed autistic and one of the accomodations he had was a guy who came with him to school to help with understanding the questions and stuff (i'm not a native english speaker so i dont know the word for that kind of person rn). i remember feeling jealous because he had all these accomodations (he still had a hard time though!) while i was struggling alone with similar issues (that i couldn't exactly pinpoint at the time). sometimes i also talked badly about him to fit in with the other peers because they did so as well. one time when i was doing this i realized that he was in hearing distance and i had very little control over my voice volume so i talked a bit too loudly so there was no way he didnt hear it. i felt so bad because i didn't actually want to hurt him, i just wanted to fit in. But I never apologized. Not even when we became friends for a while years later. I've thinking about reaching out to him to apologize.
I have the exact same story just change the age to 28. And yeah, I looked down on autistic people too as a defensive mechanism. I knew something was different about me, but the adults in my life disregarded that, and I also saw parts of myself in those kids so when I would see other children talk badly about them I was so afraid they were saying the same things about me, and to be real they probably were. I never bullied anyone but I did think horrible things. You couldn't pay me to go back to being that confused lost teenager again 🤣
@@allyowl amen to that!!!
Not a random neurotypical mom gatekeeping autism🙃 Just because women especially get late diagnosed doesn’t mean they don’t deserve a diagnosis.
Lol, I would go as far to say that she is also neurodivergent, as she clearly has narcissistic personality disorder with the way she controls Abbey
Christine's behavior in this video was pretty wildly problematic. Someone can have a different take than me, as many people did but they all still contributed to an enriching conversation sans Christine. It was maddening to hear her speak for and over her daughter. Her insistance on "Abby's type of Autism" as if others could not understand given this setting speaks volumes. She clearly has a lot of ableism that she has yet to combat. Honestly, there were many points in the video that were hard to get through because of her voice. Conversely, I appreciated the inclusion of James. I think it was powerful to have a parent's point of view that was sharing his perspective without trying to talk on his son's experience. I also appreciated how candid and honest he was about the ableism he worked through to be a better parent to his son. Lastly, one thing in particular that kept gnawing at me about Christine was not only her repeated use of Asperger's, but causing a divide between different sects of Autism. I find this especially repulsive because of my experience as an Autistic person. I do not struggle from a communication aspect so others may not presume that Autism still profoundly affects my life. Previously, I was working at a job where I was incredibly successful in regards to my work ethic and efficiency. However, this came at an incredible cost. I was not able to balance any life outside of work and could only maintain for my job. I would have many internal shutdowns and dissociative episodes. I often would not be able to speak or care for my house. I had skill regression that I am still struggling to get back. By Christine's standards because I was employed, had a degree, was married, with a child that I would not be in the same category as Abbey though my Autism greatly affects me just in different ways than Abbey. My social communication level is a level 1, but my restricted, repetitive behavior level is a level 2 meaning I do in fact need substantial supports regardless of which category she would wish to place me in according to ableist rhetoric.
THIS. You explained how I feel so well about Christine. Thank you!!!
So glad im not the only one that found her really off putting, especially when she started talking about aspergers as if its just autism with “higher intelligence” like… ew.
Oh ok.. I really agree with you until you started throwing shade at people who identify with Aspergers. Yikes, autism, spectrum it’s a very broad umbrella diagnosis. For people are very different needs, skills , strengths, etc. But I’m tired of all you people invalidating people like me who use Asperger because that’s what we were told or diagnosed with. Like wow. 😂
High functioning was what they called it less than 7 years ago as well.
As an autistic person, I couldn't have put this better. She was nothing short of infantilising.
I agree with your assessment and feelings about Christine’s viewpoints and how she interacted with the group, including Abbey. I think it’s very unfortunate that the education and support regarding autism has only very recently taken actually autistic individuals’ experiences and insights into account, because Christine’s perspective is absolutely a product of nearly two decades of widespread ableist miseducation. I genuinely believe that Christine loves Abbey very much, and has done what she believes to be best for her daughter. She obviously cares intensely about Abbey getting as much support as possible, and navigating an autism diagnosis and everything that comes with that as a single parent must have been very overwhelming, especially in the early 2000s. While I wish she would be more open-minded and willing to accept the newer, more inclusive and accurate understanding of autism and take accountability for her internalized ableism, I do have compassion for her. Christine likely grew up in a time when high-support-needs autistic people were often sent away and hidden from society. She raised her daughter to adulthood in a time that autism was still almost universally misunderstood and highly stigmatized, even among support service professionals. I think her dismissiveness of folks with lower or different support needs (or high masking ability) is rooted in her personal experience of her very real struggles raising Abbey, and that should be taken into account. It seems that her exposure to the more recent education has been a direct result of being on the show, and with that likely came an onslaught of abuse and shaming her for her ideas and choices. Understanding, accountability and growth are generally incompatible with shame. I don’t condone or excuse her attitudes or behaviors, but I do understand and have compassion for her.
Abbey's mom is giving such autism mom vibes.
I have a non verbal 8yo stepson, and the way some parents center themselves as if they are victims or warriors just because their kid is autistic is frankly gross. And it makes me worry about the guilt these kids end up carrying because they end up with such self centered guardians.
I am so glad to see this comment/perspective. This is unfortunately so true and common.
Stepson. Ok
Unfortunately you don't sound unbiased. You sound like you have a competitive relationship with his mother. Sorry in advance if you have sole care of him with his mother not involved. But depending on the challenges, it can be a life mission getting an autistic child through the system.
@@nica900weird comment lol.
Hei, you seem to be reading a lot of things in my comment I am not actually saying at all. He's my stepson, the three of us coparent. But that doesn't matter, there's never any reason to center your own struggles as a parent, be it of a neurotypical, allistic child or otherwise. We bring them into the world, we take on the burden of raising them. Everyone knows that having a child means you might have a child that has additional needs. If you talk to autistic adults and other parents of autistic children you'll see this is a reoccuring problem and a damaging thing. @@nica900
I was late diagnosed in 2022 at the age of 27. I was diagnosed with ASD level 1 which is akin to aspergers if it was still a diagnosis, i think Jubilee really missed out on not featuring someone who was late diagnosed and more autistic women. Late diagnosed autistic women are very important for this discussion as well. I really hated how infantilizing Abbey's mom was in this also..
Yup as great as it is to see autism being represented again the media fails to show proper representation which of course is difficult when the spectrum is so diverse but we do need to include more late diagnosed individuals now a days because our voices aren’t being heard and we need to educate people that ASD is much more than a stereotype and it was very upsetting to hear abbeys moms opinion on it becoming trendy. That’s so offensive
Yes, this spoke to me too, especially at 17:14
same with me, diagnosed last year at 25 and i’m also level 1 :) and being a girl is most definitely one of the reasons no one ever picked up on me being autistic as a child. would’ve been interesting to see this perspective on the show!
Same! I was 28 when I received the same diagnosis and would have loved to see some representation and also someone to stick up for Abbey more... and all autistic people. The way her mom speaks, it's as if she thinks she's more of a person or better than the rest of us.
Same! I have medium support needs, but am not even able to access a diagnosis or care because I slipped through the cracks and have no family or friends who are both able and willing to act as my caretaker, even temporarily to set me up with the services I need to access government & medical support. Would've loved someone like myself to be included in this discussion, especially when discussing flaws in our current system.
25 mins.
It is becoming more common here in NSW Australia to see autistic/ disability accomodations… our big theatres have “sensory break” spaces where you can to get away and recalibrate. We are seeing “quiet hour” in big grocery stores where they turn light, beeps, music and announcements off for the hour and some primary schools have caves/ teepees in the corner of the classroom for kids who need less sensory input. My daughter has special permissions to have noise reduction, fidgets and movement breaks and her school offer the ADHD kids the opportunity to run messages from the classroom to the office etc. they also help with getting things started and keeping them focussed. Some of the kids have wiggle cushions or chairs and one classroom has mini basketball hoops on the back wall and the teacher has the kids jump up and throw hoops for a short burst of things are getting too hard for focus.
So much is happening now that wasn’t when I was a kid 😊
The difference between the way James speaks about his son and the way that Christine talks about (or rather for) Abbey is so telling.
Also, Christines insistence on using the term aspergers and referring to intelligence or 'functioning' is very uncomfortable, given that the term aspergers was first coined to determine who was and was not fit to live in a n-zi german society.
I think it has a lot to do with generational differences. I think older people have more difficulties keeping up with changes in society.
@@brukernavn3409but the dad is around the same age as her
@@brukernavn3409she acknowledged that she shouldn't use that term though
@@edenoliver2005there is nothing “wrong” with using the term aspergers. It was a legit diagnosis for years and many were diagnosed with it and have chose to continue to use that diagnosis. My son is one and I know MANY others who have chose to keep the term. To belittle them isn’t fair either. It’s what they know and what they are familiar with. Because someone doesn’t like the name shouldn’t take the ability from those who chose to keep it from continuing to use the diagnosis they were given. It’s familiar to them. If they changed the word autism tomorrow, I’m sure many would a have a hard time changing that term in their lives as well.
Thank you for this yes!
Abbey is so sweet and honest I love her personality. She seems genuinely happy and kind.
I’m not sure anyone can tell how happy someone is just by watching a video.
Maybe she is happy. Then again, who’s happy these days?
She's on the TV show 'Love on the Spectrum' (US)
abbey's mom gatekeeping autism from lower/moderate support needs autistics is so shitty. mindsets like that is why as a low to moderate support needs autistic person myself, i had so much trouble getting accommodations. because i was able to mask and make myself appear put together screwed me over. i hate this idea that because you can travel, have a job, drive, go to school that you can not be autistic or you don't need accommodations.
Me too
But people like you are the people who typically dominate conversations about autism these days. People with higher support beads have less ability to advocate for themselves in a way that makes sense to other people.
Ok …. So if u can drive, travel, hold a job. Live independently. What accommodations do u need exactly? It’s like showing up to a hospital with a minor knee bruise while doctors are busy doing life or death surgeries and complaining abt having to wait.
I am curious about what accommodations you might need??? Can you let me know?
I do agree with you I just want some more perspective on your story
These people have hearts of gold. Put a smile to my face several times. Growing up with a cousin with Asperger’s and naturally running across a few people in my schooling through my life who had autism, it really has always intrigued me. Because it is a spectrum, I acknowledge that severity of it plays a big role in how a person is able to operate in life/integrate with society. I understand that for some it certainly may not be seen as a gift, but I do mean it when I say that being able to see the world differently, to think differently about things, to react differently to things, it all is a gift to us as a species. If we all fixate on being the same, and thinking the same way, we never grow.
so disappointing to not only hear the way abbeys mom speaks about autism/late diagnoses/“deficits”, but i also hated the fact that abbey felt like she had to wait for her mom to agree / disagree.
I agree with you that in a typical communication setting, this could absolutely be interpreted as Abbey's communication being limited/requiring approval, but this is not a typical setting.
Abbey's Mum has played a significant role in Abbey developing and understanding communication over the years, and developing communication skills doesn't stop at becoming verbal.
I have ASD level 2 and you've actually identified autism therapy tools, which include modelling, peer training, self-management techniques and social skills training.
These tools help with burnout, processing, interpretation, structure and context. Abbey is looking to her mum for verbal and non-verbal social cues, this is recognized as peer training in the context of autism therapy tools, but more specifically it is a helpful self-management technique for people with autism.
Second to this, 85% of people with autism also have some form of comorbid medical diagnosis, 35% require psychotropic medication. It's really important to validate the deficits associated with autism, and also autism in the context of dual diagnosis. Without recognition we cannot foster equity in participation, and if we are expected to participate like a neurotypical person, we find it difficult to showcase our strengths. I hope this is helpful :)
Mic drop@@CurlyHostile
It’s a privilege to have the parents and access to care that Abby and her mom had. Abby’s mom was downright offensive in her overlooking of the women who were girls in the 70s-90s when “girls don’t have ADHD or autism”. A lot of them had to make life just work. The lucky ones have had the opportunity to be diagnosed later in adulthood and finally get some understanding of themselves. Shame on her for diminishing their experience.
Let’s be real here. A lot of young white women especially feel the need to “other” themselves whether it’s being queer or neurodivergent, it’s a legit thing. Does it mean all or most behave that way ? No @@MauiGirl276
@@CurlyHostile While I agree with you, I also disagree a bit. Abbey's mom tends to interject a lot and speak for Abbey. Now even if it is hard, I think Abbey should get a chance to explain it herself. But we can never know how Abbey feels about it and maybe she prefers her mom to do that. I know there are times when I turn to my mom to speak for me. But at the times when Abbey's mom does it, it would be very frustrating to me. That is my own biases though. My parents also thought there was nothing wrong with me and forced me into doing things I did not want to do. So my view is definitely going to be different.
9:00 OMG, that "I'm lonely!" Had so much passion behind it. My heart aches for him.
I don't know who you are, but you are valuable and thank you for existing.
Ikr
❤❤❤
Abbey's mom scoffing at "50 levels of functioning" like it's impossible for 50 different autistic people to have 50 different levels of functioning is so frustrating. Why is she against the idea of a literal spectrum not being "in three different [arbitrary] levels"?
Every autistic person has different visible and invisible traits that are related to their autism, and personally I think that the community is wide enough for us all.
She is just being hyperbolic because she doesn't have an argument without saying things that aren't true.
I think the point is that we need a boundary at some point. She said it herself, not everyone with a sensory issue is autistic. And who benefits from any government aid or healthcare services specifically for autistic people if everyone can claim some form of autism?
Yeah I really dislike this constant point being made in this discussion. Autism doesn’t look one way, that was already agreed upon. I think it’s contradictory to then turn around and insist that we only look at autism one way and try to limit other people’s experiences with it.
@@xGaijin504the boundary should be educated professionals who can help someone navigate getting a diagnosis or not. Unfortunately, there aren’t many of those. Also, they aren’t just handing out support and diagnoses. Specifically because most are uneducated and only looking for stereotypes. I feel there are already so many biases in terms of how autism looks, that comments like this and the ones abbeys mom was making are just harmful. I mean, they are literally part of the reason why so many people go undiagnosed.
I think it's because we still don't have names for a million different sensory disabilities. This is still so new to research when you look at the big picture. So autism will be compeltely different in 50 years than what we see it as now. It'll probably be divided and called many different things other than autism. I have adhd and they just started researching it in women when I was in high school!! So crazy. But I'm sure adhd will also split up and be many different things eventually.
I've been watching Abbeys journey from love on the spectrum and through her mother's social media (she shares her accomplishments regularly) and it's been amazing to see how much she's learned and how confident she is in being her authentic self 🥰❤
I think the round-up isn't diverse enough. There are only autistic people who were diagnosed early and neurotypical people with a lot of experience around neurodivergent people. I would have loved to see people who don't know as much on the subject or who were diagnosed more recently to have a wider perspective on the issue and a more interesting discussion (not that their discussion wasn't interesting)
I really appreciate having a live moderator in frame on this one. Seems more respectful and safer. Also, my partner is autistic, and sometimes I speak for him out of habbit. In those moments I must remind myself that even if I have his best interests at heart, I have to step back and give him space. I think Abbey's mum could learn something from that. Also, I love my partner with all of my heart and I wholeheartedly disagree with her about autistic and neurotypical people dating. Also, I wanted to reach through the screen and hug all of them during the "making friends" prompt.
I wonder if this is an adjustment to accomodate sensory issues. Hopefully this means the moderator gets taken more seriously now.
She was clearly commenting on people at Abby’s level of disability dating neurotypical people. And frankly yeah , I agree with her. I would be concerned about a neurotypical person dating someone with a cognitive disability as well. There’s clear imbalance there.
@@kalinakowalska184 I would be concerned with an autistic individual dating her too. Being autistic and violent/a psycopath are not exclusive, there are awful autistic people out there too.
It seems like Abbey's mum is resistant to Abbey actually developing, she infantalises Abbey a lot by mentioning her "innocence" and inability to do things, when Abbey has ill. Abbey has a website (in which merch is sold, by her mum I'm assuming which I think is weird tbh even if they donate a "portion" to an autism organisation) and there's a note from her mum saying how ASD is used to describe so many people now before detailing Abbey's upbringing. It's a shame to see Abbey look to her mum before walking forward for the prompts, obviously a parent should be supportive and helpful but Abbey should be able to grow without having her mother to lean on.
Hey there! Although I see how someone may innacuractly interpret things this way, Id like to share more information with you so you understand the full picture! :) Abbey has a hat making business of her own. She learned how to sew by taking classes and once she asked the school to sign up for the advanced class, they said she would not be able to. Still, Abbey's mom got her an amazing teacher who taught her the remaining skills and Abbey makes all of the orders herself. Other items in the shop were created with Abbeys help as well. So it is really not her mom trying to sell stuff in her name. It is her mom embracing her daughter skills and helping her achieve a successful business by helping her set up a website for it, a skill that abbey lacks and is honestly not interested in learning. Also, Abbey is an adult now and you can tell how far she came and how much more independent she is, but she is still pretty innocent in the way she thinks and expresses herself. It is a disability; she has a much harder time interpreting things neurotypical individuals can do in second. So, it is not “innocent” as in a just born innocent, but as in a grown-up innocent adult, that has much more trouble seeing the world as it is than the average adult. A more innocent brain that has not developed the skills to identity mean, evil, and harmful things that everyone deals with from time to time, things neurotypical adults are able to do and do so unconsciously. If Abbey looked at her mom a few times when walking up, she just needed her mom's emotional support, she gets nervous sometimes in making decisions, something Abbey has talked about in the past. Thats what I got from the video. ❤
I think it's important to take into consideration the type of autism Abbey struggles with. She has had difficulties communicating her entire life so there is clearly developmental delay/impairment on that front. I think it's perfectly okay for someone who finds it hard to articulate their thoughts to rely on a caregiver, and realistically Abbey is not going to be able to be independent at all. And that's okay. Not all autistic people have to conform to neurotypical standards of independence, communication or success, and that does not mean that Abbey is being infantilised. They clearly have a unique relationship and I think it's unfair to judge since we don't actually know them. But I do disagree with a fair few of Abbey's mother's views.
She basically said Abbey can't date Nero typical people which is so wrong.
@@danielleburke87it is. I feel she think they will take advantage of her, which isn’t the case. Abby is smarter than her mom think she is. I don’t like her mom
christie is narcissitic and I can see that because my parents are also like them. Narcissitics never want to lose control of their children or spouse
Christine came in with an agenda to disempower and invalidate late diagnosed and low support needs autistics. It makes me sad that rather than support and facilitate Abbey's communication and supporting her ideas, she spoke at length about how what we need is more division in the autism community and how mean everyone is to her.
Like, im sure they are. There are bullies anytime someone is vocal with an opinion on the internet but it feels like shes gone "they're all assholes and they can arriculate too well so i get to decide they dont belong."
As a kid I would often blurt out thoughts whenever a conversation reminded me of them. I've stopped doing that since because people told me it wasn't the time for me to speak. Seeing abbey do the same and having the group be so accepting of that made me so happy, this group is great!
So happy to see abbey here, less so her mom. This episode reminds me why I love my ppl. We’re so open minded & opinionated ALL at once. If only the world could mirror that.
Yes, with every prompt I anticipated the nuance to every answer and I was just geekin, I love these people
great episode but I hated how Abbey's mom talked about late-diagnosed autistics and high-functioning autistic people as if they weren't "really" autistic. Also those comments about autism being a trend? It really feels like her proyecting her perspective of her daughter's autism onto everyone else whilst at the same time infantilising her
I agreed with her that autism is becoming a trend on TikTok specifically. Similar to how people will call themselves OCD because they’re ‘tidy’ or have ADHD because they consider themselves to have a lower attention span. It takes away from those with an actual diagnosis and can benefit from aid. However, we as viewers can’t specifically judge whether or not someone is being authentic with their self diagnosis or claims. We don’t know their life or medical history. But still, I get her frustration.
@@veeee1584or it creates more dialog and people learn more about the spectrums. This is just full out gatekeeping and gaslighting.
@@veeee1584 if they are professionally diagnosed, they’re definitely autistic. non-autistic people won’t meet the criteria, which goes beyond sensory sensitivity. if they’re not, they can’t access resources anyway, so literally what is the problem with them using the label if it helps them understand themselves and find people who relate to their experiences? everyone seems to say more people claiming an autistic identity invalidates ´real’ autistic people, but no one explains how!
i agree. As a late diagnosed autistic person myself, people often don't know anything about "higher-functioning" autism or lower support needs at all because representation mainly is for medium to higher support needs. Of course we need that representation for autism awareness, but it pushes the narrative that those with lower support needs aren't struggling and are just "a little bit autistic". This whole idea really delayed my personal diagnose process and has made me have severe imposter symdrome. I know im 100% autistic but i still doubt my own diagnosis because of lack of knowledge of higher support needs and because i don't fit traditional sterotypes.
Fully agree. Those comments almost made me cry. It really brought out my own imposter syndrome, even though I was diagnosed at 26. I don't agree that it's trendy but I do agree that their are some who may misinterpret a single "sign" of autism and say, "Maybe I'm autistic?" However, I think other autistic people realize that it's not just one symptom.. it's a lot more than that. But anyways, fully agree. I couldn't stand how she spoke about Abby and late diagnosed people.
Both of their singing voices were BEAUTIFUL!!! you go Abbey never let ANYONE not even your mom hold you back!❤
When they asked about nuance an the r-word, and Ian immediately said "no!" I felt that in my soul.
My father repeatedly used that word to describe things I did, which he didn't like. There were two situations I can recall where he said for me to stop being one. There is no nuance. That word is not acceptable.
And before anyone mentions my username, it's not a comment on my mental state, it's a positive. "Crazy for," rather than "I'm crazy."
@@TheCrazydude17How do you feel about the use of the n word by black people? The reason I ask is because I got called a retard by my parents for my OCD and I still use the word in my speech because it conveys what I want it to. So because I am a target of this word I believe I can use it much the same as black people use their slur.
I saw abbey and her mom in love on the spectrum (I love abbey) and it was weird to see this side of her mom in this video... makes you think how much people can hide about their true nature. I really hope she gets more autonomy to make her own decisions and voice her own opinions.
@@stefanib1040 I rewatched a bit of the first season and I do see what you mean now, there is a vibe of that. I really wish the best for Abbbey.
Yeah, I was surprised to see the dynamic they had in this video. They seemed to have a healthy relationship in the show
I’ll preface this by saying that i love abbey and her mom but that comment abbey’s mom made about “trending autism” was really hurtful to those of us who found our autism diagnosis because it’s trending. The example she used of a guy who graduated college, has two degrees, is married and has kids and is somehow autistic (like she didn’t believe it) seemed…weird? There are plenty of people with autism who are like this. She also didnt know why he would want a late diagnosis at 35 and as someone with a late diagnosis i would say that it’s to help understand yourself better. It was amazing to find out why i have trouble making friends or why i repeat words (to stim) or why I always felt like an alien. I also don’t know why she kept referring to people with normal to higher intelligence as having Asperger’s (she mentioned this even in relation to people on love on the spectrum Australia). Anyways, I felt like she was weirdly protective and gatekeeping of the autism diagnosis and even the way people are labelled within the community. I get that there are some people who think the autism label is trendy but there are also people who would have never know they had autism is it wasn’t trendy! I’m ranting now but last thought is, I wonder how she feels about the therapist hired on love on the spectrum because my autism presents like her and you could say neither of us seem autistic at all to an outsider.
I agree with you completely!! That’s why I wish there was a late or more recently diagnosed person on the panel! I felt like it needed to be explained to her. I was sad no one explained this! I also wished there was a nonverbal person on the panel with speech aid equipment. I feel like this needs to be de stigmatized not everyone needs to use their voice to have something to say. I would have very much so liked to hear what they had to say.
You worded this so well, hearing what she said made me very uncomfortable :/
Yeah for someone who claims to advocate she has some interesting views. I guess people’s thoughts of autism is also a spectrum haha
Thank you so much for putting this into words! I very much agree, that part was making me uncomfortable, & you described the feelings about that so well.
yess i was liking her mom until that comment.