I find myself relating, crying, and wishing I could tell my story, as a 62 year old woman, out loud and uninterrupted. Thanks for providing this platform, Paul. 💖
Me too. I'm 69 and no one has ever listened to my story. I'm so tired of being the weirdo. Socially it seems that people constantly underestimate me. Men are still being obnoxious and pushy with me, not accepting that I just don't do that anymore. It is exhausting. I have lost years of life just lying in bed trying to regain equilibrium and energy.
@@katella I relate. I'm 49 and am also tired of being the weirdo, the one everyone can so easily dismiss with a phrase or a nod or even saying nothing at all. But so often my observations and assessments--of people, situations, places--are SO spot on. I mean, almost prescient. So good on you for saying No Thanks to all of that obnoxious talk. Be gentle with yourself and live the rest of your life in joy!
As a 50 year old diagnosed autistic, I was late diagnosed, I first self identified. We need more people in the over 40 bracket to come forward and speak their experiences, it might help others realise they have a place to call home instead of being the weirdo all the time and perhaps start healing some old wounds that a life time living in an allistic world can cause. I'm always so happy to find others of my age and above speak out as that helps me feel like I have a place to identify. 👽🖖🏻
One of the last points made about how they derived satisfaction from succeeding at participation in a social engagement, rather than the engagement itself, really spoke to me.
Me too. There’s an older video on Yo Samedy Sam’s channel where she interviews him and they talk about the gamification of social interactions. It’s very interesting and has helped me see a different way to approach masking and unmasking appropriately and to regain my power.
@@Cocoanutty0 I've kind of unknowingly approached social interactions this way for as long as I can remember. I'm still trying to figure out if I feel comfortable identifying as autistic but points like that just resonate so hard that I feel very heard and understood.
This stopped me dead in my tracks. That's a conscious thought I have when leaving a social situation! I'll be thinking "YESS I think I did a good job on that one. I think I made everyone happy and didn't make anyone mad. I think I made some good jokes and I think I listened to the other person. I did well!" And then I feel happy. I mean, very often I'll go home and think everything over and then find things to worry about, too lol. But what the fuck I never thought of it this way before. This is true for me.
I always reach a point of thinking, nah I'm not really autistic, but then I listen to one of your videos and intuitively know that I am. This is a remarkable segment, and I love these women. Thanks to all of you for sharing so openly and honestly.
I was diagnosed 7 years ago, but I still have moments when I think it’s a wrong diagnosis. Then something that would be totally trivial to most people will cause me to have a meltdown for example my back door wouldn’t lock during the really cold spell we had a couple of week ago. I was tired and ready for bed and just wasn’t prepared for this to happen and it momentarily broke me! Then I say to my self, yeah, you’re autistic
You’re not. Your parents were socially awkward, fearful and very much needing to be “right”. The autism label relieves you of your adult responsibility to improve yourself and also relieves you of realizing and accepting your faults which is uncomfortable but absolutely necessary in moving into motivation to build skills.
I am overwhelmed by the honesty and vulnerability that these women revealed. No one I know ever speaks like this, nor is it socially permissible for me to be this open with any of my "friends" or family members. The shallowness of masking is the only safe way I can put in the required time until it is acceptable to escape to solitude. It is beyond comforting to know that there are other women who feel as I do. I wish I knew other autistic people.
Hi. How are you doing? I am pretty sure I am autistic and just a few days realized it. Small talk has always been hard for me. The last years I have tried harder doing it because I wanted to offer even more support or help în some way someone. So, someone în the bus would feel like sharing stuff, so I listen and also talk more than I used to. I understand that its hard to find real friends, not just for autistic people unfortunately. Maybe you could start a blog, where maybe you dont even need to share your face. You could creat a channel where you just share with others daily moments. Its hard but maybe it can help. Keep a journal where you really write your daily stuff. I like being alone and prefer it instead of small talk. But as yourself, I wouldnt mind talking about and sharing with a similar mind. But I keep doing one day at a time and just trying to improve myself. I think time is really running out on us right now and there are some real important stuff we have to take care of. I wish you all the best and hopefully you will find all you need. And, please dont mind this, but if you havent, try establishing an relationship with God. Approaching Him will make you understand so much and help you în many ways. I am sending you a few hearts cause I love hearts and have many which are stones shaped like hearts.❤❤❤
I am going to a local little senior center that serves lunch for $2.00 to elderly. Since I don't want to be social everyday, I can call in if I feel like showing up for my plate. This is a piece of socialization I can moderate at my age. And they always want to do trips which being penned in a bus w ppl will be a no, gardening at my house w pets will win out I already now. But a lunch now and then I can handle.
You do know other autistic people now! This is a real community in its way. But I feel your statement. It's exhausting to deal with small talk and going along with norms that don't fit. If you're near a major metropolitan area there might be ND hangouts being organized on meetup... just one idea to try.
I've been a low masker and always interacted in this way and experienced social judgment as a result. But even before I got the autism diagnosis at 53, I used to say like Popeye, "I yam what I yam." This doesn't mean that I didn't experience the trauma of being autistic in an allistic world. However, masking is associated with poor mental health outcomes for autistic people. Meanwhile, I'm a joyful person... and I'm going to be me. I once had a pin that I'd wear that said, "Say it out loud, 'I'm odd and I'm proud!'".
I can relate to everything. Hating Girly stuff, not being able to advocate for myself in conflicts, putting on the smile, having to skip the networking/socialising and therefore limiting my career chances, not being able to be smart because it's interpreted as arrogant and blunt, and many more. Thanks for this talk!
"not being able to advocate for myself in conflicts" Ah yes, this hits home. In order to improve this I went to the gym, got strong, took up Krav Maga lessons which increased my overall confidence. I can deal with it better, but I still HATE conflict tho. Especially in relationships with overbearing women for the pettiest of reasons. I hate it so goddamn much. It's for the most part completely unnecessary and draining. Guess I will never cohabitate.
@@lovepeace2373 No I hate violence and always try to avoid it. I'm introvert and also autistic and recently found out I have an avoidant attachment style as well but going to the gym and taking krav lessons gave me the confidence to speak my mind more in general conflict situations, e.g. in conflicts with neighbours. Speaking up in relationship conflicts has more to do with confronting the avoidant attachment style instead of going along with it and not with getting strong.
Everything you said but ESPECIALLY the "not being able to be smart". I realized that I had literally both "dumbed myself down" and chose to stay quiet when I knew that I knew something because I learned that people did not respond well to my intellect. Yeah, and as a kid, I'd say whatever to whomever it needed to be said to until I learned that it got me in trouble constantly and BIG trouble.
Wish I had known I was autistic when I was younger. Being diagnosed at 69 is too late but at least I now understand my social anxiety. Masking, zone outs and anxiety put an end to too many relationships.
@@Catherine-cv1hj For me it was just great to understand why I was how I am and quite liberating. I just work on some mindfulness exercises to overcome the anxiety that sometimes paralyses me. Have a great Christmas
I hope this response isn't accidentally unempathic. I feel really sad for you, and I understand that many opportunities have passed. But there may still be time for people to chose to spend time with you as you truly are.
@@AlexLouiseWest All good thanks. I feel better for knowing and my wife feels better. I even have a better relationship with my first wife. Happy days. Have a Merry Christmas and/or Happy Holidays
An eye opener for me, in this video, was, recognizing that I watch/listen to people around me when they say they dislike a behaviour in a third person and I make a mental note to not do that. So my masking is mostly (I think) about my fear of being abandoned. This behaviour has eroded my inner self to the point of being almost like a blank slate for others project themselves. They get mirrored and feel stronger after being with me, but I never get that from them.
I resonate so much with what you said about how people get stronger from being with you but you don’t get that in return. I have lived my entire life being so exhausted, drained, and depleted by the myriad of people who’ve wanted to be in my life and even insisted and persisted to invade my space/ life. I’ve always been a magnet for people to come lay on all their problems to and help them and fix them, and especially for toxic people who ultimately were using, abusing, taking advantage of, and exploiting me… and giving absolutely nothing in return in the way of mutual respect, support, friendship, ect, and more often than not, leaving me/ abandoning me when they’re all better/ over their crisises/ taken everything from me/ ect. I’ve had to learn/ gain some very serious personal boundaries in recent years and then be despised because of my newfound usage of the word “NO”. But I had no choice to, because of how much my health was continually becoming worse and worse and developing multiple autoimmune diseases over the years. The struggle is real. For sure.
@@JuniperJenico Yep, that is exactly how it was! I have a long way left to go, but I'm working on it. Took me a whole year to kick a person out of my life and another year to 'unfollow' on social media. Toxic at it's core.
@@ninajansson5826 hugs 🤍 it does get better and easier the longer and more you go establishing healthy boundaries and maintaining them through daily practice. I’m not 100 percent there yet either, but boy, I sure have come a very long way in the past couple of years and especially the last 6 months. I’ve found that the healing I’ve gained throughout my journey has been phenomenal. Stick with it and you’ll see major rewards.
I just got out of prison. Being autistic in prison has worn me out totally. Even neurotypical people have to be on guard 24/7, but as someone who is on the spectrum it was a wild ride. A room filled with 200 women making all kinds of sounds at all hours of the day and night, no personal space, food texture and taste issues, blanket texture sucks. Man it was hard.
@@lindaclairesartori i am sober. But i am very depressed. Self isolating a lot and having a lot of passive suicidal ideations. But i have a good support from my family and even my parole officer is chill af and supportive. So i have resources. I just need to do some work on my self. Thanks
@@lindaclairesartori i really want to thank you for reaching out. I have felt so alone and abandoned lately. Like no motivation at all. But as of 2 weeks ago, i decided to make the active choice to just eat and bathe every day. Just by doing those 2 things, i have seen a great improvement in my mood.
That sounds like hell. I don't know if I could shower in prison. I have a hard time with the idea of showering where other people have showered. I know the food would be really hard for me too. I pretty much have 4 things I eat and can't stand the texture of most foods.
Wow. I felt moved to write to you after reading your comment. You’re one strong human. Just eating and sleeping enough, and showering can be really hard sometimes. You are not alone. When I have bad days I tend to be really hard on myself but I have to remind myself that other people struggle too and not get too self involved in my sadness. Sending you a big hug.
Holy shit the part about going out to parties and feeling good about “successfully ” doing it. That’s exactly how I feel. I despise most social situations and avoid them but when they go well I feel elated. It’s knowing that I can do this thing that I’m supposed to be able to.
I hate when people say, don’t put a label on yourself. I fairly recently realized I’m autistic. I took the Baren-Cohen autistic test and scored moderate to severe. I’ve masked all my life, have a very high IQ, but as I’ve aged my autism has become much more evident. Doctors have diagnosed me with depression, ADHD, anxiety, but never autism. It makes me angry. If I had known sooner, my whole life would have been different, I would have made different choices, better choices. My son is autistic, but unbeknownst to me his father (who raised him) didn’t want him “labeled “ so he’s gone through life with all these issues thinking he’s stupid when he’s not. It’s destroyed his whole self worth, something his father reinforced. Diagnosis is so important.
I just took that test... scored high for autism ... not a shock, lol. I'm 56 and always was different, or the outcast or bullied in school. i also have a genius IQ and now I'm basically a hermit as I cannot tolerate being in public or going to social gatherings. Been diagnosed with anxiety and depression before but I'm really not depressed. I just need two or three days to recover from any kind of social activity requiring me to "people"
"Where do you feel like you can be most yourself?" by myself.... was my answer before she said it. Masking takes up so much energy. So tired after being with people for any length of time. You mask because your real self scares other people.
So my daughter and I were both officially diagnosed with autism this year, she at 12 and myself at 40, and this is 5 years after my son received a diagnosis at age 5. I've shared with my daughter that I was raised by parents who thought they were raising a quirky but nuerotypical child as they did not have an understanding or tools to know better. Lifelong suffering ensued. I've since confronted the internalized ableism in myself, and acknowledged to my daughter I started the first 12 years of her life doing the same thing as my parents, even with a known asd diagnosed person in my household for the last 5 years. And now I know better, and in real time, we are going to learn about our brains together, and this time, there are tools to cope. I am unable to separate socializing and masking. I spent a lifetime feeling like a failed extrovert, now knowing the imposter syndrome was real. I am no such extrovert. I do have a series of scripts and a curated personality that emulates a manic pixie dream girl as that seems to be where I can camouflage what leaks out. But just like the trope, the character is fantasy. This was wonderful. Great content. Healing. It's most excellent to learn from your experience. Well said, everyone. You're very powerful.
Oh my God... Just reading this was shocking, it is as close to looking into a mirrored situation of not only my life but my kids. I am 43 and only just started to think, 2 months ago, that I may be autistic. I have a barely 18 year old daughter and a son who will soon be 14. I had felt my son might be autistic when he was 11/12 but pandemic happened and everything shut down. We couldn't get any appointments and trying to go through a school to diagnose your kid is ridiculous. When I started to really look at myself (what the hell is wrong with me) I started to read more and more. I came across articles about girls and women with autism and how under diagnosed they are. I found a list that was compiled by a woman diagnosed with autism later in life who had a son diagnosed first. The list she had was compiled not only from her own experiences but that of other girls and women diagnosed with autism. The list was shocking but overwhelmingly comforting, it's hard to explain. I saw myself and I saw my daughter. Some traits overlapped but some were distinctly our own. I was like.... Is it even possible to have that many autistic people in a family??? My little brother was diagnosed with Autism type 1 (Asperger's) when he was around 14 if I'm not mistaken. I think that growing up, I was overlooked. I was the only girl and middle child. I was just shy and nervous. My little brother is 9 years younger and his Autism was much more obvious I'm guessing. I've just gotten so good at masking that most people can't see that I'm trying so hard to look and be "normal."
Awesome for you and your daughter! What a blessing to make this discovery now, to recognize so many things, and to learn together with your daughter and also your son. Blessings to you!
@@lauraspicer6541 I have identified autism in most of my first-degree family, going back to my great-grandfather. I think since there are genes involved and people may be drawn to others like them this should not be unusual. Many are/were highly gifted, but the gifts were never properly actualized. Personality is a different dimension, so these people can look very different. (See ""big 5" traits). I can see different forms of masking in them, too. One family member is highly gifted with people, a primary special interest, so that would be missed. It's a lot to process when you first learn about it. No one but me knows it's autism, but there are a lot of other diagnoses, ADHD (everyone pretty much), OCD, borderline/bipolar, Tourettes, depression, etc. Some of these overlap, some are results of struggles with being undiagnosed autistic, but some are misdiagnoses. I can only hope these family members figure it out. I told a couple of them I was, but they didn't believe me, etc. It didn't go well. That's the hard part for me. Though people often don't like it being mentioned, the show Young Sheldon though not so much Big Bang I think showed a little of this in the family (kids). He's the one ID'ed as autistic/gifted. But his sister is highly gifted with people. And the older brother with mechanical things (see the show on him finding leaks in tires). This made me wonder about the show's creators either seeing or experiencing something in a family system. Of course, fictionalized and exaggerated.
As I'm watching this, I'm noticing how often everyone nods with understanding in the background, and it feels embracing. They get it. Everyone gets each other. It's wonderful.
It's trippy to watch them nodding as I'm nodding to myself... currently about to be 30.. and just realizing I'm relating with 90% of statements said by Autistic women diagnosed later in life. And then take all the tests and find out it's very likely... when I had no idea I could have potentially been masking to myself this entire time.
@@NashGnomers It's turning out to be a relief for me, akin to realizing that I've been wearing two left shoes this whole time. Now I can get a proper pair of shoes, learn to walk correctly, and feel right with myself.
I kept looking for the nods and appreciating them so much because they affirmed my definite shared sense that what was being said was so accurate and meaningful as someone living the autistic experience
Thank you SO MUCH! I grew up being told that I was just overly sensitive and highly intelligent and I got into so many toxic relationships because no one taught me how to avoid them (and my family’s treatment of me growing up primed me for them.) My children had all been diagnosed with ADHD or autism before I ever even considered it, and I remember telling my oldest that I thought maybe I should get assessed because I thought I might be autistic. When she, and all of her teenaged siblings, finally finished laughing hysterically they said “Mom! We thought you knew!” So yeah, at 48 diagnosed autistic and adhd. This explained a LOT.
Good job! I am convinced the road to success with Asperger’s is a devoted and understanding partner and to surround themselves with the same you raised yours very well! Some is luck though so remember to hug your lovely kids you raised! Aspies need to learn they don’t have to know or absorb everything! I told my producer I needed to have someone to follow me around and say “you are just fine, Carol!” all the time! Producer Tony Bill heard me and said “That’s what agents are for!” Hollywood is full of us!
Shannon did an excellent job describing the layers people of color have to handle with our Autism and how people of color were missing from the panel. I do hope I will be able to see more people of color on a panel about Autism as I am in the process of late diagnosis and now entering the world with how to be a cis gendered woman, a person of color and mid way in my thirties now discovering my Autism. I feel life is starting over again for me but I’m also excited to see my true self 🤗
Thank you for your kind comment. Make sure to check out work by Tiffany Hammond (Fidgets and Fries), Helen Hoang, Talia Hibbert, Danny Whitty, and Jude Afolake Olubodun if you aren't already familiar with them. There are some really amazing autistic POC activists and writers out there. As I was getting diagnosed, three of my friends who are Black women disclosed to me they were self-diagnosed or in the process of getting a formal diagnosis at the same time. I share your hope for the future. Good luck on your journey.
i hope to see way more black autistic people too, as i've recently heard a mother explain how she literally fears her autistic son will get shot by the police (in the usa) if he had a meltdown in public. this has opened my eyes so wide and has forever broken my heart. we all need to learn so much more about black autistic experiences, and everybody else's, because there is an emergency and lives need literally be saved. i wish you the best of luck on your personal journey as well.
@DarkLittlePeople- Thank you, yes this is a true concern and I hope more understanding of how people of color show signs of Autistic behavior may differ from others. Here’s to the future! 🤗
Thank you for saying this! This is exactly what I was thinking. I feel being a recently self-diagnosed Autistic Black Woman, I can relate to so much of what this panel discussed, but there was a layer missing. One of which is being brought up in the American South where my intelligence wasn't even acknowledged until middle school. Being separated from the "smart kids" just because of the color of my skin meant until the age of 12 meant "fitting in" and masking for what felt like survival . This was the 1980's and things are hopefully different now, but the trauma of those early years really made my need to mask, code-switch, and just "fit in" so important to me.
I really appreciated Liz's "I'm masking because they can't cope with it, not because I can't cope." (in relation to the small talk) I absolutely love that at the start this conversation was conducted in an orderly way (like all of Paul's bigger group conversations on this channel). It's not just easier to navigate for the participants, but it's so much easier for me to consume as an autistic person. The transition on the screen was really well done too. I'm grateful for how polished this is visually so it's not too overwhelming with a gazillion frames to have to focus on. It's wonderful to see everyone's different takes, experiences and reactions. The things that are important or relevant to each autistic woman are both varied and overlap. It's such a heartwarming experience to watch this. Thank you so much. I'm so glad Paul posted both the short version along with the full version for everyone's individual preference or need. I'm so alarmed and confuzzled that the participants didn't talk over each other accidentally. I just can't handle those cues well and I talk over people every 30 seconds. XDDD Please do more of these where possible with different types of groups to talk on various topics to do with Autism and neurodivergence. Someone mentioned late diagnosed autistic men, and I'd also like to hear from multicultural groups of autistic adults too (such as men/women of colour).
The audio was definitely edited to disallow multiple simultaneous speakers. There's a moment where Angie is asking Shannon a question at 57:10, but the question is inaudible.
Yep don’t talk so much especially about stuff I find interesting and quirky in the world. Everything from Roman lunch counters 2000 bc and woodpeckers filling an attic full of 600 lbs of acorns. I have to force myself to shut up and physically wait for my turn to talk. Very difficult. I hate working in teams and must do it often.
Not talking over each other because they were muted unless it was their turn, because otherwise it would be impossible, and he announced when he was going to take away the guardrails. It's absolutely necessary for me in this kind of set-up to be muted unless Im specifically supposed to be speaking, because my inability to differentiate someone's pause from them being finished, combined with the delay inherent in the set-up means that I bumble through the conversation like a verbal bull in a china shop, alternately talking over people and slapping my hand over my mouth. The usual conversational landmines times ten.
Also notice that there is NO BACKGROUND MUSIC, which I find annoying and distracting --like visiting someone' home and finding that they have TV sets blaring in all the rooms.
Oh ladies, you are singing my SONG!!! I've suspected I'm autistic for years. I was formally diagnosed with ADHD (impulisve) in the late '90s. Today, at 51, I'm self-diagnosed autistic. You are my people, NO DOUBT!!! The cost of the mask has hurt me. Pain to me. Now, I'm unmasking, and the cost is hurt to those around who thought they knew me (how could they when I DIDNT KNOW?). My husband is having a really hard time, and I just don't know what the cost will be. It scares me. A lot. But, I don't want to end up dead, so I have to unmask and just be me. I have to. I'm terrified I'll lose my husband. I'm terrified I'll lose friends. But, I have to do this. I'm exhausted, and I won't survive if I don't shed the mask. At least not wear it 24/7 like I've done my whole life
Will pray for you. I’ve done this and it’s been very very very hard…. People don’t like me now and there is more tension, but I sense it’ll be ok in the very long end. It is a trade off, unfortunately-
Similar, but I'm much older. I've dissociated away the years, staying alive somehow without skilled help for this and for trauma. But now I must stop masking.
These conversations have helped me a great deal to appreciate and understand both my husband and daughter. For years and years I felt rejected when he came home from work and literally slammed himself into his office...But now, I know he needed to unmask and unwind from having had an entire day of stress. Many times they both come home and are very angry, and there are melt downs and shut downs...This I took personally until a few years ago, now I am beginning to understand the level of suffering they must experience every day. (Thank you)
I appreciate you taking the time to learn about them. I personally find the outside world very intense and need a good amount of alone time without any expectation to put on airs for others to equalize myself.
Watch Mark Hutton Videos--its absolutely important cuz its NOT your fault to have d NEEDS. Trying to understand why he’s this or that does NOT make him wanting to understand your needs. Its not the “need” matters, its d “put own needs aside for partner/kids” matters. A strong partner will come home cozy up wife n kids for 20 min FIRST so they wont Inaverdently cause ppl to feel like they are invisiable (if the dude is all engaging n attentive to coworkers n customers ALL DAY) n comes home first thing passing u to “clean up”. Very soon a lot of wives will have d term-Casandra Syndrom(question self worth, feeling numb, depression, anxiety , hopeless, helpless--- often ppl with ASP thrive on Strict routine), it will slowly break u .
"who would want to be autistic if they're not autistic?" is something i've said to myself a lot the past few weeks, after self-identifying as autistic.
Some may argue that there are folks using that label disingenuously for "attention," but I don't think they actually want all that comes with autism. I wonder if my wanting to identify myself as autistic was a form of falsely trying to put myself into a category that doesn't accurately describe me, even if I have nothing to gain externally (from others) regardless of whether I consider myself autistic or not. Lots of imposter syndrome here, which I've also experienced with ADHD before I was professionally diagnosed earlier this year. Dipping my toes into the autistic community and letting myself think I am plausibly autistic gives me a sense of self-acceptance and compassion I could not gain through anywhere else. It feels right, in an indescribable way. And yet, I still wonder if I am mistaken or not. What if I'm just trying to run away from something else? What if it's not autism, and I am just a fundamentally broken allistic person? Possibly, the traits I have that are shared by autistic people are not true to me, and I've just picked up all of these tendencies because I'm just that good at copying others, because I am just a husk of emptiness without others. It often feels like I was not meant to be a person, or meant to exist at all. I think the day I can openly, without shame or doubt, call myself autistic would be like a warm, comforting hug. I don't know. I wish I can access a formal diagnosis, but seeing as it's not "medically necessary" (not because I don't struggle, because I do, but things like hypersensitivity can be treated without an expensive evaluation. I also fear that because I'm "too smart," and display hyperempathy as opposed to the stereotyped hypoempathy (which I think is misleading, but that's a separate convo I've already wrote a wall of text on somewhere else), and other non-stereotype behavior due to being ADHD too will hinder me from getting an accurate assessment
Yes!!!!! Somehow I keep dismissing the validity of me being "autistic" because I don't stereotypically present as per society's understanding and I need this reminder. :)
I think I am after learning about myself the past few weeks. I am unsure how I feel about it, but I feel negatively about it. At the same time, I have always been this way. But I think that learning about neurodiversity will help me in my job in Human Reaources. I am currently at an HR Conference, and they talked about emotional intelligence and the spectrum. Learning how to communicate based on different personalities. I let out a loud sentence during lunch and then felt ashamed. Maybe nobody noticed because I mask pretty well. I am pretty sure some knew. Last night we had a dinner and the newer guy next to me, and much younger, did zero to help me feel like a part of conversation. Today was mich more comfortable for me. 😊
The lady in Tasmania nailed it for me regarding masking. It's about "fitting in" as best we can, yet it comes at a great cost mentally, emotionally, and even physically, and requires probably 2-3 times the recovery time behind closed doors than normal people might need. Dx'd 20 years ago and I still struggle with it because I mask well enough(?) for friends/family to not understand why I must retreat so often, that it makes me wonder why, as well.
Thank you so much for this. And thank you Shannon " I cannot be trusted to be my own advocate in a conflict situation." Your words crystalized my life experience. Deeply grateful.
Me too, brings so much into perspective for me and takes a lot of the self hate I have about this part of who I am off my shoulders. I have always deeply thought about this and tried to work out why I can’t do this for myself effectively like other people can. What an amazingly insightful video so thankful for these women sharing their experiences.
I had no idea I was masking until I had a complete meltdown recently and took a good hard look back and realized I was forced to mask so young that I just automatically did it. In my teens, I had large meltdowns all the time. In fact I was misdiagnosed with a large list of mental health disorders and now I firmly believe they were meltdowns that came from the vast amounts of energy that my vain attempts at masking were costing me. The effects of being forced to mask (and not even knowing I was doing it) almost cost me my life. I went to vast extremes to let out the pain and excess energy I was experiencing. This video has been so amazingly helpful for me to hear so many women that I identify with, at a time that I am studying this for myself.
Absolutely. Because you endured a certain “social programming” if you will via your parents during your upbringing. You have to “unlearn” those to see who you actually are. At least that’s a part of it while discovering who the real you is.
Working on getting an official diagnosis now at the age of 40. I am almost certain that I am autistic as well as diagnosed ADHD. I feel this is the only thing that explains so much about me.
Yes, but it doesn’t have to be because of autism. Writing is very hard in a literary sense and that includes diary or autobiographical stuff. It’s actually an art form, just like singing or painting; not everyone has the gift for it.
40s and just figuring this out. What a relief. Ive always felt im from another planet and about 10-15 years behind average life milestones. SO GULLIBLE. I have been taken more times than I care to admit. Im finally catching onto people now.
Amazing panel. I have recently self-diagnosed. Everyone on the panel seems to reflect my own experiences. It's revelatory that there are other people like me. I need to find some sort of local autism society. Apparently that's where all the cool girls are 🥰
Very interesting, I felt identified when the person in a middle told she didn’t feel she was a good advocate for herself, when I’m talking to someone and open up, I’m so focusing on that person that I forget about my needs and not very good in setting my boundaries or defending my point at the moment of conversation and only after, when I overthink it in my head, I understand that I had to act different and set a boundary
Oh god I relate SO much to Shannon saying that people think she's being funny when it's literally how she thinks. People around me think I'm the funny, whimsical one and they think it's all sense of humour but its actually how I think and act. In a way it's good because good humour is received as a positive trait, but the downside is that I sometimes feel like I am appreciated only as a joke and fun entertainment instead of a whole, meaningful person.
I understand your feelings, but those people appreciate you for who you are and what you bring. The way you think, they way your are is quirky, fun and whimsical. You're different in a good way, and that's awesome! That doesn't mean you're not a meaningful person to them. Quite the opposite: they like the way you're different even when they don't fully understand you. When you think about it, that's how we live. Most of the people around us are neurotypical, and we like them for their weird, quirky ways even though we don't fully understand them and how they think.
I relate right back. I used to think of myself as a recurring guest star in friend groups who always hovered on the outside but was never part of the main cast. Some of the people in my life turned out to only want that and others turned out to love me even when I was weird in ways that weren't fun at all. I hope you figure out who the latter group are for you. It's sad when you lose people from the former group, but it feels so good to know the people who remain really love you. Good luck on your journey.
But with regard of being funny, most of the people think someone is funny because they can relate to the funny things . Because they recognize it in themselves.
I suspect many comedians are on the spectrum . We think differently. When we share our insight some people see that as being humorous. I think of Robin Williams playing Patch Adams. He nailed it. Mostly because it was a non-neurotypical playing another non-neurotypical.
@@cogit8able Definitely! A lot of authors are on the spectrum too, as well as artists of different types. Like you said, we see the world differently, and that's interesting/funny/enlightening to people. It's a shame that so many of us end up losing faith in ourselves while growing up.
I am autistic and have always loved shopping. But I have always preferred to go alone in shopping centers, because then I can walk as much as possible "in my own world" while looking at things. It's only been a year and a half since I found out I'm autistic (I'm now 49), and I've realized that one of my big interests has always been clothes, especially dresses. Which has probably made my attraction to shopping centers greater than for many other autistic women. But I now also understand why I have always been completely exhausted when I have come home from such shopping trips. Often very happy, but at the same time completely out of energy. And I also understand now why I have often walked away from clothes I was looking at, when other people suddenly have come too close to me. I have previously only felt that I have not been able to "concentrate", because I "feel" other people's "energy" when they are too close in such situations. But have been used to it ever since I was a small child, so have sort of just accepted it without thinking anything more about it. Now I understand that this is just one of many things I have simply "got used to" throughout my life, which I have now understood is about the fact that I am actually autistic. And I have often "held out" by dissociating in many situations. Which I didn't realize I was doing. No wonder I've ended up extremely burnt out over the years.
Oh my gosh that's the most relatable thing I've ever read. I love being in my own world and looking around in the store but I hate it because I have to look at everything and I love doing that but then I'm so exhausted. And my boyfriend now realizes this, and says "let's stay on track or you'll get tired" lol or "come on let's go to the __ isle now" which is funny lol. I have found out recently all my siblings are autistic. And I think I may be too. Listening to these women and comments like this makes me think maybe it's more than just ADHD for me.
Do any of you get tunnel vision while shopping because you have to look at everything when you're alone shopping? I can feel it coming on and know I've shopped too long because I've exhausted myself trying to look at everything. People kind of look at me like it's strange when I say that this happens to me when I shop.
@@imagebearer740 I wonder if it's -ADHD inability to prioritise (must look at everything - what did I come here for?) -compromised ability to filter out irrelevant information -I used to feel like all the items were screaming at me - especially in a place selling multiple small items like a sweet shop, makeup or homewares shop -autistic 'fairness' ? (which I have to research to see if is a valid concept) I have to give all items equal consideration and time and chance equally - fairness extends to inanimate objects - I would feel tremendous guilt for not buying the ugly items, I didn't want to discriminate, as a child I would hug the toys I didn't like as much as the ones I did. Easily abused because I will listen to criticism as intently as praise even if it's leveraged abuse!
I self diagnosed a few years ago but I was told by my church that I had to be diagnosed by a professional before I could be listened to. The questions I used to ask at church were ones they didn't want to talk about. I could never work out why. My Vicar secretly diagnosed me as having a dangerous personality type and got me into a lot of problems. My masking couldn't be maintained and I couldn't cope with the fears associated with the pretending that seems to happen in church culture. I got the silent treatment. It's given me time to look at what being autistic is about. I'm now aiming to stop the way our particular church environment became so harmful to me because I am autistic. Prejudice and discrimination is cruel. They honestly think what they did to me was necessary. I can laugh now, but it's great to have people writing testimonials against me at how difficult they've found my behaviour. My Vicar knew how to make my difficulties worse. I think the church saw me at my meltdown worst. I have to trust and have faith that I can show them what an autistic worldview is like. I remain convinced it's an enabling thing to be an autistic Christian. The amount of curiosity I have has opened up a lot wonderful knowledge and growing Christian faith. Seems sometimes that typical thinkers don't mind not knowing much at all. I'm 60 now. After being told I was evil, it's never felt so good to be me.
I just turned 71 and from time to time I have wondered if I could be somewhere on the spectrum…I’ve been a Christian for 40 years. I also have had experiences in church in which the many questions I have had and the struggle with church culture has seemed to be very problematic. I was constantly told not to be so intense and to lighten up. I learned many coping mechanisms to feel safe. I feel that only God can understand and have compassion on me, because He knows my inner being…but often I feel others wish to maintain a distance. I often feel abandoned. I am gifted in art and words but this does not help me to feel accepted. Your story means a lot to me. Thank you for shari g
I don't know the full details of your case, but l think this extreme stress you went through was "scapegoating" and as an artist, l would be so bold as to say l can see the effects in your habitual expression in your pic, and frankly you deserve so much better than being constantly wilfully misunderstood. You're need to "heal the group" may be your idealism and superior logic at work, do you really need to go up against "a mob" again, as just one person? I have a family member who has worked in a series of toxic workplaces over the last 20 years (all, like church, with prosocial mission statements!) People love her, groups do not, they of course use her high level skills shamelessly. I personally have a Church where l just go services, listen to one formal lecture a week, and then that's it, my low expectations have kept me safe, there is "a tribe" within that will never accept newcomers but always be polite, l call them "the janitors" in my head, because they are very diligent in their care for the fabric of the Church, but tight knit, have known each other for a lifetime. I have highly superior pattern recognition, (people sometimes even ask me into meetings to silently observe the subtext)😉 What you discribed seems like very focused bullying, very uncharitable, every healthy group would be wise to accommodate neuro divergent thinking, it is the bridge to success in the outer world l have noticed, Rather than being the closed group degenerating into a self regarding cult. Non neurotypicals always need more self care imo, that should come first
@@thestraightroad305 Jordan Peterson of all people is very clued up on the topic of "The suffering artist" (He is also an artist and a highly eclectic collector) He is quite scathing about how organisations that welcome "change agents" actually despise and exploit "creatives". I joke with the few that are chatty at Church that l'm an "Urban Hermit". Truth to tell l wouldn't mind being a contemplative and say an icon producer or somesuch, those of us who get to "go deep" are the blessed ones is my view tho. Vanity vanity all is vanity.
@fionapimperton3210 I am Christian too and a long time ago I was involved in a Church that got into some pretty deep stuff as far as living "the Christian life". Long story short...I and my 54 yr old son are still living w. the toxic after effects. Just want you to know the Christian community in general does not have a clue what to do w. any of us non- neurotypicals! I left church but I haven't left God, nor He, me!
@@daisydriver5877 I don't think the church knows how to respond to me choosing to stay. I'm so much more clued up on the Bible and, more annoying for the PCC, the church representation rules and the CofE canon laws. They are incredibly impressive and compelling. Being the thinker I am, I find it amusing to see their puzzled response to my choice to stay, even though they'd rather I go. Canon law A8 is fantastic. Just found out that E1 allows me to ask the wardens to represent my concerns. The diocese was forced to initiate an independent investigation. So now I have evidence of the huge amount of prejudice and discrimination I've gone through. I know it's not a good way to make friends but it's possibly the only way to bring things into the light. They've got a lot of learning to do about neurodiverse thinking. And I hope to persuade them to behave a bit more like we're told to by God. We might all be able to grow up a bit and laugh at how difficult it is to actually love one another. That's if they can stop feeling offended and insulted by the way I think and speak and see and hear 😁 I'm not perfect but I'm not ashamed to be me and to love God the way I do. I thank him for those canon laws that prevents the church asking me to leave!!!! 😅
I am listening to this in tears! I have such a hard time relating to people at a deep level. I can make a little small talk but really despise it because it feels so fake!! I masked (apparently) that I was normal and often tried so hard to relate but many times I offended people and it hurt soo bad that they would get angry with me. It felt like I was saying something I genuinely cared about but nobody got it! So I just gave up trying to have friends. I’m 52 years old and this video has helped me so much and I haven’t even heard the whole thing. God bless you all. Thank you, thank you for sharing this video!
18:51 ‘undermining & dismantling any sense of myself so I could rebuild it to be whatever it needed to be.’ Angie is so well spoken and able to put the feelings into words.
I really enjoy these conversations about masking. I believe it is because once you realize that you are actively doing it you also begin to realize how draining it is. It is also scary if you have been masking your whole life because you have to come to terms with not knowing who you are, at least for me, and learn to embrace the fact that you are different.
This is extraordinary! I'm male, and autistic, yet I identify with so much of what these women describe. I too spent years trying to figure out what was "wrong" with me. I recieved so many diagnosises my head spun. Generalized anxiety. Depression. ADHD. Panic disorder. Agoraphobia. Refractory major depressive disorder. PTSD. Oh, and I was tested and identifed as "Mentally gifted" (very high IQ) as a child. Talk about masking! My repeated failures in social, academic, and employment settings were attributed by my mother to "Boredom, lazyness or simply poor character. I was shamed by her and others constantly for being "brilliant but unmotivated" unless I was "interested in something." When "interested in something" I quickly became an expert in it, which created all sorts of social problems, and ultimately burn-outs, shut-downs, and withdrwal, depression, extreme anxiety, shame, withdrawl, and even suicidal thoughts. I took an online autism assessment about 10 years ago, and almost maxed it out, yet dismissed it, because back then, autism was "rare and disabling" A couple of years ago my girlfreind, who I suspect is also autistc suggested by way of love and acceptance that autism was central to my personality. It took over a year, but ultimately I was formally diagnosed by an autism diagnostic specialist earlier this year. Wow - what a revelation. It all makes sense now. The final thing I'll say to anyone suffering from anxiety, depression, and especially suicidal thoughts is that ketamine infusion theraphy stopped all of that for me in 2018. Stopped it almost immediately - within hours. One treatment - though most people need a series of them. It was an absolute miracle in my case, and there's mounting evidence that autistic people in particular benefit enormously from the treatment. Dont take my word for it. Google "ketamine infusion therapy for depression" and dive in to the massive amount of research supporting it. If you are suffering, I urge you to consider it. It's safe and it's the most effective treatment for anxiety, depression and sucidal thinking ever discovered. Huge thanks to Paul and the poarticipants here for sharing their experiences and insights into how autism and masking affect them. You are making a critical difference for people like me, who thought we were alone. Keep it up!
Sounds interesting to me. I have a lifetime of depression, anxiety, social anxiety/avoidance/inadequacy. I feel ive lost years of my life just lying on my bed trying recover from or prepare myself for behaving normally.
@@katella I dealt with something similar for decades. If your anxious and depressed, it's a medical emergency in my opinion. The fatality rate for recurring major depression is over 10%. That's similar to some forms of Malignant Meleanoma. The difference is, cancer is prefferable, because it doesn't directly cause severe emotional difficulties that inflict years of suffering before killing you. I suggest Checking out ketamine infusion therapy, and see if it makes sense for you. My anxiety took about a week to abate, but the depression was gone within hours. The anxiety was the worst thing though, and now it's gone completely. Ketamine alone isn't going to fix your autistic life though. Or at least it didn't fix mine. What it did was get me back on my feet so I could put my life back together. One person described it as being like power steering for life. Everything gets easier as you find inner peace. But I'm still trying to figure out how to actually be in the world without masking. I'm also slowly re-structuring my life and social circle so it honors and supports my autism rather than tries to shame and beat it out of me. You could say I'm leaning into my autism now. If only I'd known 30 years ealier! =)
@@TheWilliamHoganExperience as far as ketamine therapy goes, I doubt whether I will be able to access that. I live on a Mediterranean island and psychological services are limited.
Popeye pushed spinach in late 1930s after tests were done to show damage and death in mice fed spinach. Very high in oxalates. Can form crystals wherever you have a weak link. Apparently autism first diagnosed around 1945. The WHO supplied vitamin k3. .menadione. .free to Africa. The CDC added folic acid to prenatal vitamins in 1991. Food fortification initiatives are largely funded by gates foundation. Saw folic acid added to most grains in 1998. Definate correlation between rise in ASD aound this time. Folic acid is added to most contraceptive pills and other meds. High amounts in most body building formula and in some so-called health products. Some genes are folate sensitive and am wondering why cows have..4 stomachs. ..is it because they eat mostly folate? There are also snp genetic polymorphisms where certain medications .. like lidocaine. .amitriptyline. .and a bunch of others can cause major problems for slow methylators. Please look for oxalates on yt. There are some really good ones..like Dr Ken Berry. As an aside its interesting to see how veganism vegetarianism is being pushed by those growing synthetic meat in labs. Feel that transhumanist agenda is hurtling forward at such a rapid pace...maybe the minds of the very people who reject this agenda and have capacity to stand against it are compromised by unmetabolized folic acid.
@@katella that is how my teen daughter spends her life when not at school and its a big concern to me how much of her life she is going to waste doing that.
@Shannon, your explanation of "I don't understand how much I compensate" resonates SO strongly with me. I'm sorry that you had this experience, but I am so extremely grateful that you shared it.
It struck such a cord with me as well! I also had an experience with a medical professional and did not defend myself; up to that point she had been so kind and seemed so aware, and then on a dime she crossed so many lines and violated my HIPAA rights. All I can remember is just dissociating - I had my infant with me, and I was worried about him. I was worried about repercussions of speaking up because of her position and the paperwork I needed. I spoke to my sister afterwards who works in the medical field because I still somehow thought, “maybe I’m overreacting. Maybe this wasn’t that bad” and she was horrified and strongly recommended I report her. She pulled up her licensing and the medical board info and was so awesome and supportive, but even after the fact I couldn’t bring myself to do it. I was a few months postpartum, my job was draining all energy my newborn wasn’t, and I just… couldn’t. It still makes my blood boil two years later and I refuse to ever go back to the clinic I saw her at. But it was a moment that sticks out because I’m also normally outspoken and strong willed. Close friends were shocked I didn’t tell her off then and there. But I just couldn’t. I can be the fiercest defender of those I care about, but when it comes to myself I will take a lot of sh*t before I put my foot down. Boundaries have been so crucial and I’m lucky to have a partner that encourages me and supports me in that regard.
Hannah's advice (towards the end of the video) to consciously unmask to find out your baseline is really good, to practice "unmasking" sometimes, when we are safe to do so, to learn who you are and what you feel. The consequences Hannah talks about are really real too. We can't go back, but it's worth it. Journaling is quite good for this, as we can start to practice to be honest with ourselves there. We can start to practice to be honest with ourselves there (though I know it's difficult, as was also said). Living in dishonesty is a terribly place to be, even if we're doing it out of survival instincts, it seems to take a lifetime of practice to move out of. "Unmasking" is a spiritual practice in my opinion, and one every human being has to go through, it's just that, unlike neurotypical people, "masking" is so uncomfortable and undesirable for autistic people, we so want to be honest, and live in reality, and honesty is so natural for us. We are living in pain while we are masking. That's the conclusion I've come to in my lifetime so far...
@theelectricalengineer thank you for sharing your gentle, encouraging, compassionate, perspicacious thoughts and helping to make this a softer, kinder space to explore and reimagine, re-create, co-create (in an edgy, judgy, high pressure, performance-driven world) no matter where we are on our self-acceptance and self-actualization journeys... Your words and spirit reminded me of a Rumi quote about the garden, the field beyond conceptualizations of right and wrong doing, beyond prescriptive moralizing and one-up-ing pronouncements and power plays that lead to compliance and masking, and in this field of freedom and love, of disidentification with coping and survival mechanisms, here, Rumi says, our souls can meet, here nourishing communion is possible, where, because it is safe, we can dare to let our guards down, be our real selves and deeply share and connect.
@@susanbyron6499 that's so lovely Susan, thank you! I'd love to read that poem, if you wanted to share it or link to it? What you're expressing feels like a really good place to be :-)
After suffering Complexe PTSD after multiple natural disasters and abuse the masking seitch broke. I self diagnosed after doing all the online tests aa few months ago at age 58.and after my social worker recognized the symptoms after working in autism for 15 years it sent me on this path to self discovery. It explains sooooo much. I've lived in almost total isolation for 3 years since all the social norms and rules have changed. For the first time in my life, I can barely take care of my basic needs and avoid people and overstimulation. I am now learning to be more me and not be appologetic about it.
Oooh, boom! You just said a whole book right there in one sentence around 32:45 Shannon: "...men are evaluated on their potential, and women on their past success..." and now I'm crying. No wonder it has felt SO hard and toxic working in tech!
I think why most people dont get diagnosed or get diagnosed very late: 1) being uneasy around people- not going to appointments 2) financial barriers 3) fear of stigma/even self stigmatisation . Excuse my english.
I came to this video because I am self diagnosing as autistic these days, learning, re-framing my experiences with new understanding. I am struck by the depth of thought, the layers of masking, the layers of projecting what we think people want, creating ways to express "weirdness" by setting up an expectation of quirkiness or weirdness to both hide AND reveal our true autistic selves. I state facts. People think it's funny the way I do it, with humor. Ok, I guess I'm funny-in certain situations, in certain groups. I've been diagnosed with PMDD, Generalized depression, social anxiety, regular anxiety. I want to thank each person on this panel, you are helping me better understand my entire life, at 45, undiagnosed and starting to see myself in an entirely new light.
This is so recognisable for me, I masked my whole life, being really good in reading what the ‘room’ wants from me. Analysing what people want of me or expecting of me and doing it. Always exhausted and burned out. Taking over emotions of other people and mirroring their behaviour. But during my intense therapy for the last 3 years, I am learning who I am and to recognise when I am masking, so that I can have more control over my choices, my thoughts and emotions. Which is hard. But step by step, I am trying to stand more for who I am, and hopefully be closer to myself eventually.
Very interesting discussion. I have been masking to the point that I do not always know who I am and what I think, what I feel even. This has the effect that I allow some people speaking about me, defining wrongly my person, without being able to deny it, because a part of myself wonders whether this can be true. Like people saying: "you are a bad person because....", and wondering if this can be true, if my feeling of my being a good person could be a lie that I make to myself. I wished my English was better to explain it better, how devastating these life experiences are.
@@visionvixxen thanks Chloé, it is a relief when you notice you are not alone :) Actually, now that I know the existence of this mecanism, and stopped masking, I have a better, more stable opinion on myself
It's become obvious to me over the last several months that I'm an Autistic woman. I have not been diagnosed with anything. I think growing up it was very obvious that I have ADHD and at some point I started to become extremely anxious. As I've become more comfortable with knowing that it was ok to have something "wrong," with me; I've come to feel certain that I am an Autistic woman with ADHD and likely GAD. The part that was really hard was telling others, just close family and some trusted friends ( I have few of those). I kept getting met with weird looks and dismissals. You can't be autistic, you aren't what we expect Autism to look like. I'm working on visiting with a psychologist but when you've never seen any type of professional for any kind of mental help.... It's terrifying.
The dismissals are because you are lazily adopting a label to force people into accepting your ineptness instead of coming to terms with the fact that you are missing learnt social, emotional and self awareness skills and not willing to put in the time and effort to learn the damn skills. You are practicing a huge degree of laziness and it’s not healthy for the people around you.
@@elsagrace3893 you're making incredibly huge inferences about a person you don't even know based on a very small amount of information. Get a hobby besides trying to make people feel like shit about themselves.
Good on you for taking the steps to see a psychologist! I found it terrifying to look for help and to start the process of opening up about what I was experiencing. I've got ADHD and the number of people who tell me I can't possibly have ADHD because I was considered "gifted" growing up and I'm very good at masking my symptoms is staggering. You know you better than anyone else!
I identified with so much of this! First, Angie was just brilliant! She totally captured my experience and put it into words that I have not been able to find. Next, I really identified with the idea of "gendered" behaviors. Algorithms always seem to think I am a man, because my responses do not fit the "norm" for women. When I think back to childhood, I would have one bestie girlfriend; but, most of my friends growing up were boys. And, writing in my diary was always a fraught situation too, because I would judge and edit my thoughts, or look them later with disgust. Finally, at work, I can best be supported by employers who are willing to adjust their training to my learning style, instead of trying to make me fit their style; there is no right or wrong way to learn, only different approaches to it. I do not retain anything that is just spoken to me- I need to see it, write it, do it, and create a procedure for it. Employers should see that as a strength and an asset, rather than an irritation.
Thank you so very much for your work. Your videos are saving lives!!! I am a woman aged 62, self diagnosed with AuDHD a year ago. I can now see the patterns in my family as well. I am in the process of doing "parts work" to help evaluate my inner world to stop the internal battles between the parts of me that disagree. Alcohol stopped working as a masking aid for me years ago and since being sober I struggle with finding balance. Autism medications are not an option for me so I am trying to manage with diet, cannabis and exercise. Every time I watch a video about women with Autism it is like medication for me. I feel well for hours afterward. It would be FANTASTIC if an online Zoom meeting or some forum for older women with Autism could be developed. Like an AA meeting, we could share our experiences, tips and hope in a safe environment where everyone is learning from each other. Being around people with Autism online in the comfort of my home is the greatest mental health practice I have ever experienced.
So many "That's me!" moments. At 65 and self-diagnosed only a couple of years ago, I find revelations about myself and my life almost daily. Masking shielded me from some of the bullying. I'm seen by others as a chameleon, because I gained a talent for behaving according to my surroundings. Later in life, the ability made it possible for me to leave my personal problems at home and my work problems at work until I could lock myself away for a while to let the day's pressures go. Alone time has always been an essential way of maintaining my mental well-being. Whether with family, friends, or strangers, the inability to get off by myself will eventually result in a meltdown.
I love Liz so much… she deserves so much love and happiness 💚 Every one of these women do, but Liz has a special place in my heart just from watching her in this video
This was mostly helpful. I appreciate hearing from everyone’s perspectives. I was shocked and horrified how Shannon’s experience and insight were completely blown off by the moderator. TWICE! Even after she asked for clarification that she was heard and understood. She brought up a very good situation and also brought up the challenges of being neurodivergent and a person of color or another marganalized group within the realm and Paul blew both of these situations off. It was cringeworthy watching and listening.
I have sobbed my way through this realizing I have been in full-on denial of being autistic and I am 55 years old. With all the tell-tale evidence and relational damage but no real trusted emotional support, I just feel hopeless sometimes. Hannah's contributions here are particularly informative and convicting to me. Thank you.😢
and.... thank you for recognizing not-yet-diagnosed people. In the US today it is virtually impossible to get scheduled for a diagnosis if you are over 50. Some insurance companies will not cover it unless "accommodations" are needed for school or employment.
I identified with parts of what everyone said, but particularly with Shannon's experience with her therapist, where she just nodded and smiled. I know that experience well. It was brave of her to share
Yes, me, too...my mutism kicks in whenever someone says or does something that makes no sense or feels like it puts me in danger. I go silent, and just nod, and hope whatever it is ends soon. I cannot speak up to defend myself or tell someone to leave me alone. It's caused me untold pains over the decades (I am 65). I often blamed myself for assaults, even, because I didn't, couldn't, say anything to make it stop. It was very brave of her to bring that up, and I hope others supported her afterwards about it. It felt like the subject was changed too quickly. Maybe that was just editing. Thanks for bringing it up, Karin.
Thank you for your kind comment. Make sure to check out work by Tiffany Hammond (Fidgets and Fries), Helen Hoang, Talia Hibbert, Danny Whitty, and Jude Afolake Olubodun if you aren't already familiar with them. There are some really amazing autistic POC activists and writers out there.
Wow .. much kudos to your amazing panellists for being so honest and generous with their experiences. What really struck me is that the majority of the panel are so recently diagnosed (either self or otherwise is no matter: once you recognise something in yourself you can’t unsee it) even if they had a sense of being autistic before. This for many late diagnosed autistic women is an immense time of unpacking, self-reflexive thinking: it’s a process which can be affirming, grieving, tumultuous, to mention just a few possible descriptors. A new gaze when applied to yourself really does involve grappling with your identity and questioning past experiences and how you reasoned them to yourself versus how you may now in light of recognising your autism. And there’s literally decades of life lived to process. I wish these ladies all the best in their processing. It can take quite awhile… but it’s worthwhile. Paul, unmasking as you touched on at the end, is definitely a future panellist topic in itself.
Hannah's experiences as an "extrovert" with the hyper-social, very emotional, extremely empathetic person really resonated with my own narrative. I realize just how much I mask as a social person in order to fit in and stay under the radar. Thank you for sharing!
Holy cow! I was going to leave a big long comment about how I related to each one of these women, but there got to be too many instances to comment on ha ha. I am 42, not currently diagnosed as autistic, but have suspected it for about 10 years and now am considering going through the diagnostic process. However, I would like to say to Liz, you remind me of my dear old granny. She was always so bored with the other folks in the retirement community and was constantly reading and on the internet to entertain herself. I am so happy to hear that you are still learning new languages and using your ESL certification! Stay active and don't let other folks your age get you down!
I have spent so many years wondering how the heck is everyone doing this!?!? All the time!?!" (the full days with other people at work, on vacation with others, hanging out, constant communication, talking, noises, smells... how are they surviving? Why can't I do it!?? Why can't I be more like them and enjoy all of this?) But I've kept it a secret, because I thought I was just failing at being a human. To this day, no-one would ever suspect that I am melting down inside and am utterly exhausted most of the time. I am working on changing that now, though...
This is an amazing video of amazing brave women. I am so happy I found it, didn’t want it to end! I am 48 and just starting on this self discovery journey…it all makes incredible sense. My son has autism and I am starting to think I could have too. All my life I have been masking not sure I was masking…myself? But you pay a price, I don’t know if I will ever be so brave as you ladies but we need women like you leading the way ❤ I hope you can do more videos, you are all fab!
Wow! I can relate so much! I'm 52 & will be scheduling an appointment this week to see if this is all true for me too. Thank you all for sharing your experiences ❤
Shannon's experience really reverberated with me, especially when she talks about how losing the mask has the repercussion of losing one's skills in social situations, how the two are intertiged and the need for new ways of exisiting and self discovery.
What an absolute fabulous group of people. It remains me of AA. Where everyone knows EXACTLY what you mean. You don’t have to explain and the room is full of nodding heads. I would so love to meet you all. Well done! Yes, I shed a few tears coz it felt so real.
Sinéad Bloom That makes sense . Little girls are interested in being friend with other kids , older woman are not . This lack of interest must feel like being forced to do something we don’t want to do and leads to burnout.
These women are absolutely spectacular, courageous and lovable in their voluntary vulnerability and honesty. Such thoughtful answers. It is empowering to learn about autism and perhaps understand my own journey because of their willingness to be open. I appreciate you all so much
wow!! I am not sure why yt brought me here, but I am glad I stayed. I resonate with pretty much every woman on the panel... Claudia resonates the most with me. I too, can switch it on and off. until I get burned out, and then I can't. The house burning down allegory is spot on. I was in the gifted program growing up... and I am wondering what that criteria was. At the same time, I resonate very much with Shannon in that I was able to mask while being myself, saying weird things all the time and whatnot. Many of my past friends just kinda flittered away. As I am into my 40s now, I am ok being alone. With that being said, I also haven't had many romantic relationships... like fleeting ones, sure, but none that lasted. I get along pretty well by myself, although I do fall into PTSD/Anxiety/depression, and I would totally love to have people come check on me and force me outside in these times, just like Angie. HOLY MOLY... the whole fact stating/being blunt is something I have struggled with my entire life. I find it funny when people ask you for an opinion, and then get mad at you for giving what they asked for. I have never been one to sugar coat anything...
I relate so much to what Angie was describing... I learned to mask so early, I turned inwards and began to dismantle to the point of dissociation and in highschool for years I would mask all day, come home and cry myself to sleep. No one knew. My whole agenda to survive school was to make myself as uninteresting as possible... I feel like the scariest thing that I am feeling now about my self-diagnosis of autism is the work of unpacking the complexity of my masking now... I have really struggled with confidence my whole life, and the confidence that I have exhibited has most often come from a mask... I am looking for an authentic confidence, but I feel like I have no reference point.
The reference point goes so deep, how can I be honest about what's fun if I took what people call fun as fun and for me it was successful exhausting masking not experience of engagement and joy etc.. redefining what's me and what's survival behavior so complex . .. wishing u the best
It has been so meaningful to me to hear from other adult autistic women, particularly those who have also been or still are academics. I finished my Ph.D. in 2016, and now that I'm teaching at a regional public university, I'm really struggling. I'd love to know more what Shannon's experience with teaching has been.
Coming from one who taught high school and then 8th for 21 years, after Covid in 2021 I had to resign due to Burnout….it was hard because I’d been doing it for so long but there were so many ways that I was masking but failing miserably as it relates to social interactions with my students , being seen as cold and mean because of my bluntness and no desire to mingle and “clique up or suck up” to the powers that be…made it seem like I was negative or not a “team player”. Now I’m trying to navigate a new normal outside of a classroom and still looking for a more meaningful job.
As a retired teacher in Special Education I realize that as a autistic woman I had a sensitivity to energy and could sense a child's non verbal needs. Other teachers always thought my diagnosis were off base but what I sensed was always spot on after the child was professionally assessed. This was a gift that could not be hindered by other adult 3D thinking, my senses were stronger than what was happening around me in the 3D world. I am happy with who I am and the gift God gave me. I no longer mask. My idea of having fun does not match the extroverted 3D world and that is okay. Dancing to a different drummer is a gift to celebrate in my eyes.
I don't remember the last time I was able to watch an hour long segment (a panel on top of it) without switching to different websites or activities while also half listening to the video. Thank you for sharing your experiences 🙏
I am an NT in a relationship with an aspie. I really appreciate you all opening up and sharing your stories. It has helped me get closer to increased understanding. Life is challenging but I understand how much more challenging it must be if you are autistic
The diversity of experience, depth of understanding and self reflection displayed here, is so profound, it is unsettling. It will take me quite some time to process this privileged information into my life and relationships. Thank you to each of you for your genuine offering of yourself and your experience of life. It provides the kind of intimate knowledge that can be therapeutic and healing. After watching hundreds of Nero-diverse videos it is amazing to watch the evolution of material offered over the years. Each year bring new insights and areas of interest and awareness to what makes each of us a unique and special person. Thank you Paul for your significant contribution to that effort. On a somewhat trivial detail. The software used to highlight each speaker makes it much easier to focus on who’s speaking, thanks for that. I do not know the time constraints that limited this gathering, yet I would have watched this all the way through, even at 3-5 hours. Please do not restrict the length of the video unless necessary. I know there is so much more that could be offered by the magnificent women. I watch in segments because there is so much to absorb and I watch it multiple times. The information and awareness provided through this panel is priceless. It literally is like going to group therapy…I can not thank each of you enough!
I am so thankful that you have all opened yourselves up enough to be able to speak your own voices. I took a course in that once: "Finding Your Voice" or some such. I hear myself in your voices, so just know that you're not alone. And please know that this video is probably helping thousands of people understand what's going on with them. My whole life I've wondered if my presence on earth was really worth it to anyone. Now I know, at 64 years, that I'm just a late bloomer. Trying to live in a world of normal people who have no clue what it's like to be me has been torture. Now that I'm retired from the job hunt (one after another for decades because I was too odd for them), I've remembered that I like to paint, and write, and compose. I've learned so many things about so many topics, because I've always been a mental sponge and avid reader. I've also found a way to express my frustrations with the world. THANK GOD for the internet! I've learned to be able to forgive myself for being me, and to forgive others for not understanding. That in itself has been a life-changer. I've attempted to express what it's like to be me, with limited acceptance, but have learned to accept that when people don't accept me for some reason it's mostly because of something about them, and I no longer internalize every little thing that seems amiss in someone else's response to me. To be frank, I've learned to not really care what people think of me, but be the very best, nicest me I can be in any case. That way, I know it's not me if something goes awry with a conversation at some point. Yes. I DO overthink! LOL In any case, THANK YOU ALL. Your contribution is appreciated.
I'm only 16 minutes into this video, and I'm about to start ugly crying. THANK YOU for including self diagnosed women. I've suspected autism for myself since 2008, and pretty much self diagnosed last year. I'm trying to get an official dx, but my gosh, having these ladies on my screen saying what they're saying is so indescribably validating. Like, maybe just maybe everything about me isn't inherently wrong. OMG Journalling! This was amazing.
I find this wonderful….internalising my life in social situations I used to mask constantly but seemed to always get lost by what was ever going on past tense…I then got diagnosed five years ago with autism…..it was a great affirming moment..I started to unmask and I do what makes me comfortable and don’t people please, however I do feel constantly drained by people and most disappointing by human interaction, I can’t deal with personal relationships know in my 40s but love the quiet of been in my own space alone
I've just found this channel, and I want to thank the host and all panelists for sharing their stories. All of them echo my own experience; unfortunately I sought a diagnosis in 2019 and was basically told I'm not negatively impacted enough to be ASD on paper. My work and personal life are so difficult because people think the mask is really me -- thank God I have theater work to channel who I truly am.
I have my assesment in May. I have struggled all my life with functioning and coping in my life, and I have had a few diagnoses that were disputed and ultimately didn't stick. The more I learn about autism, the more I think that I was misdiagnosed entirely all along. The extreme sensitivity I have to tactile things, people's facial expressions and tone of voice, and also how I have had consistent meltdowns during moments of unexpected changes- it all adds up. I'm thankful for these examples of women, normal and wonderdul women, who are also dealing with this. I sometimes feel so alone, but I think I'm finally finding out that I'm not.
My daughter approached me about autism, and initially my reaction is "but that's all normal" - without realising that it was normal to me, because I have the same traits and so did both my parents. I couldn't understand my meltdowns, super sensentive to people, sounds, colours, temperature, noise. I found it astonishing in meetings, when data was presented and there were errors and statistical anomalies, that no one else could see it. I thought it was normal to read a novel in a day, o r knit 7 jumpers in a row. Normal for me was copying the behaviour of others to fit in, to feel proud of myself for going to a social occasion and "getting through it". I always put it down to a high IQ, and being an only child. It was when my daughter (22) started her path to diagnosis that I realised none of this was how most people experienced the world. Unmasking in my case is more about giving myself permission and forgiveness for being different, as I used to get angry with myself for not being able to be like the rest of the people around me or being "unsocial". I don't think it is something I will announce at work. My skills are advantageous in my job, apart from the social stuff. I get accused of "attitude" by one person, because of my facial expressions (when I am trying to solve a complex problem for her), or being "standoffish" with people I don't feel safe with (if I don't trust someone I actively avoid them - apart from professional courtesy).
I related SO strongly with Angie and her experience. I discovered I had Asperger's at least 3 years ago, but I have had this masking down since I was very young.. Like 5 or 6 years old young. I also am a twin so I think that has had a real impact in driving this heavy masking. To the point that I have a hard time recognizing that I am actually masking.I often am not certain what part of me is real and what part is a result of masking. My husband has Asperger's as well so he really knows me and understands. He and my 3 children are the only people I feel really myself around; without a need to mask. I try to use the me that is at home as a sort of reference in the presence of other people (anyone outside my immediate family) I feel uncomfortable or anxious around, so that I can better judge whether or not I'm masking.
This! Me and my twin checked each other to better mask, I just got diagnosed at 22 it's been a year and the untangling has been exhausting in itself and confusing , because of this early and extra start ...
If you do a male version I would love to be involved. I am a 40 year old who was diagnosed at 39. It's been a huge game changer now that I understand why I am who I am.
Your making is more taking away than adding. Oh goodness, I'm glad I was sitting down for that one. That one hit me hard. That's what I've been doing and now I understand a little bit more of where I lost myself. That was really helpful.
Loveeee this video. I resonate with the pretending to do alot of "womanly" things even though I'm screaming inside my head to hurrryyy this up and let me go home.
Liz, my mother is also self diagnosed, she encouraged me to get my diagnosis since in the US she had difficulty with her primary care giver willing to diagnose her at 73 years of age. I am the daughter that she sees herself in more than my sister, with coping, dealing with others socially, the sensitivity, hyperlexic, etc. She is 82 now. I got my diagnosis at 50 years of age in Denmark, and it was a struggle of a lot of different hoops to jump through of 5 year process. She was 79 when I got the diagnosis. My brother who died at 53, was never diagnosed officially until he was injured in a terrible hit and run, when he was 48 years of age.
Oh. my. gosh. Masking where you pretend your true self is a performance, masking where you focus on negative role models and erase rather than add..... I haven't heard anyone else talk about these forms but something in them really clicked for me. That's me, that's what I do. Thank you so so much for sharing your experiences, I'm only part-way through but I just had to stop and say !!
I find it funny (strange) that I’ve always clammed up around anyone who was the slightest bit different or strange when I myself am so incredibly different and strange. But I think I’ve just had a revelation. I’m realizing just at this moment the reason unusual people make me so uneasy is that they don’t fit the prescribed social norms I’ve worked so hard to learn. Interacting with them around “normal” people might unmask me because they may say or do something unexpected and I won’t know how to react. So I avoid the interaction altogether.
I’m a fellow Aussie autistic diagnosed at 38. My daughter is also diagnosed (7) and I feel so much more at peace with myself, letting my mask go, communicating in meeps and moops and we all understand! I wish I was understood as a child, I masked so freakin hard every day, living with extreme fatigue, severe depression, near constant burnout and suicidal tendencies, even my own mother still doesn’t believe me. But I will change that for my kids. They will be free to express their true selves and I am so happy for that.
Centring yourself into the discussion and that the quality time and just being there with no need for talk. I so resonate with all of this discussion. I self-diagnosed about 6 weeks ago and I'm trying to accept that diagnosis and to reduce this imposter syndrome (does that ever really go??) but this discussion has really, really helped me to better understand, accept and acknowledge me for me and to me. Thank you so much.
This was very helpful. I am recently diagnosed and have very little insight into when I am masking vs when I am being authentic. This conversation gave me a lot to think about. Thanks so much to all of you for being so genuine and honest.
Absolutely great video! Thank you to everyone for openly sharing their reflections and experiences, it’s deeply appreciated! I also really appreciate the gentle call in from Shannon on the “positives” of masking for women that includes being airheaded, childlike or otherwise, not taken seriously. That may be a benefit, a pass that feels affectionate if not enduring. But much of our societal and health barriers comes from not being taken seriously, or not truly being aware/knowledgable enough to understand our bodies, our needs, our boundaries, etc. I may have gotten a enduring pass one day for appearing airheaded, but the next it’s justification for not having more responsibility over myself and my direction.
Listening to these ladies - so relatable! I think what was most relatable though was their obvious discomfort and anxiety over how to articulate their thoughts. Often times, they would kind of drift off topic and then circle back around. And the end of their speaking just kind of trails off with an awkward laugh. That’s my whole life…
This has me in legit tears. I was misdiagnosed as bipolar at 15 and Zoloft almost took me out. I kept telling them I wasn’t bipolar. After having a double major in nursing and psychology that I didn’t complete due to illness. I thought, maybe it’s BPD. Then, I was like no! Thats not it. Maybe it’s ADHD/OCD/CPTSD… Now. I’m in awe.
@@theasianwitch Thank you! I’m in therapy now and seeing about an official diagnosis. Self diagnosis seems to be safest and then going to someone that specializes in it. It is so hard for POC. I’m thankful for a therapist that looks like me now.
Hi Paul, could you do a video on conflict resolution? I don't think you have touched on it before and I think it would be really helpful especially as conflict can be especially difficult with some aspects of autism like focusing on details over the bigger picture/black and white thinking/overload etc
I’m so on the autism spectrum at 50!! I have already gone through the stages of grief for my first 50 years. ❤ But getting officially tested is becoming a struggle 🤷🏼♀️…. I relate to all these women and I appreciate all of them taking time & speaking freely ❤
Thank you so much for focusing on this topic! I think the Autism conference this year is also focusing on women and autism, so I hope women with autism get more recognition medically.
Again, thank you all so much for sharing your story and being vulnerable in this space. I relate to so many of the experiences I heard. I know it's not easy to share all of those personal thoughts but you are greatly appreciated for doing so.
Paul, thank you for putting this together. Thank you to your guests that have been so open and honest. I watch this video often. It gives me hope. I know I’m not alone. I believe that these people,along with yourself are giving us a voice. ❤❤❤
I needed this so very much. I am 61. I have been showing the overwhelming signs of autism since about age 3, even had insightful teachers speak to my inability to properly read social cues, but have been living undiagnosed my entire life. I self diagnosed years ago, but I finally decided to take things in hand and try to get a proper medical diagnosis. I am in the process of attempting to do this now, but really need an advocate because doing this on my own has proven highly overwhelming. I have lost jobs and opportunities and relationships due to my inability to properly regulate. It had just become too much. My son is autistic as well and we live together so it’s very challenging at times to get anything done. We’re managing, but it’s been difficult as I just lost another job over this.
I find myself relating, crying, and wishing I could tell my story, as a 62 year old woman, out loud and uninterrupted. Thanks for providing this platform, Paul. 💖
Me too. I'm 69 and no one has ever listened to my story. I'm so tired of being the weirdo. Socially it seems that people constantly underestimate me. Men are still being obnoxious and pushy with me, not accepting that I just don't do that anymore. It is exhausting. I have lost years of life just lying in bed trying to regain equilibrium and energy.
@@katella I relate. I'm 49 and am also tired of being the weirdo, the one everyone can so easily dismiss with a phrase or a nod or even saying nothing at all. But so often my observations and assessments--of people, situations, places--are SO spot on. I mean, almost prescient. So good on you for saying No Thanks to all of that obnoxious talk. Be gentle with yourself and live the rest of your life in joy!
"wishing I could tell my story, out loud and uninterrupted," sounds like a great reason to start a youtube channel~
As a 50 year old diagnosed autistic, I was late diagnosed, I first self identified. We need more people in the over 40 bracket to come forward and speak their experiences, it might help others realise they have a place to call home instead of being the weirdo all the time and perhaps start healing some old wounds that a life time living in an allistic world can cause. I'm always so happy to find others of my age and above speak out as that helps me feel like I have a place to identify. 👽🖖🏻
I feel that so much.
One of the last points made about how they derived satisfaction from succeeding at participation in a social engagement, rather than the engagement itself, really spoke to me.
Me too. There’s an older video on Yo Samedy Sam’s channel where she interviews him and they talk about the gamification of social interactions. It’s very interesting and has helped me see a different way to approach masking and unmasking appropriately and to regain my power.
@@Cocoanutty0 I've kind of unknowingly approached social interactions this way for as long as I can remember. I'm still trying to figure out if I feel comfortable identifying as autistic but points like that just resonate so hard that I feel very heard and understood.
Yep...for me is the satisfaction of surviving larger social situations
This stopped me dead in my tracks. That's a conscious thought I have when leaving a social situation! I'll be thinking "YESS I think I did a good job on that one. I think I made everyone happy and didn't make anyone mad. I think I made some good jokes and I think I listened to the other person. I did well!" And then I feel happy.
I mean, very often I'll go home and think everything over and then find things to worry about, too lol.
But what the fuck I never thought of it this way before. This is true for me.
I literally don't try clothes on in the store. I grab what I like, buy and go home. Hopefully it fits 😂.
I always reach a point of thinking, nah I'm not really autistic, but then I listen to one of your videos and intuitively know that I am. This is a remarkable segment, and I love these women. Thanks to all of you for sharing so openly and honestly.
Internalised ableism sucks doesn’t it?! I do the absolute same.
I was diagnosed 7 years ago, but I still have moments when I think it’s a wrong diagnosis. Then something that would be totally trivial to most people will cause me to have a meltdown for example my back door wouldn’t lock during the really cold spell we had a couple of week ago. I was tired and ready for bed and just wasn’t prepared for this to happen and it momentarily broke me! Then I say to my self, yeah, you’re autistic
@@MsDamosmum bu r
@@TheKjoens4 pardon you 😁
You’re not. Your parents were socially awkward, fearful and very much needing to be “right”. The autism label relieves you of your adult responsibility to improve yourself and also relieves you of realizing and accepting your faults which is uncomfortable but absolutely necessary in moving into motivation to build skills.
I am overwhelmed by the honesty and vulnerability that these women revealed. No one I know ever speaks like this, nor is it socially permissible for me to be this open with any of my "friends" or family members. The shallowness of masking is the only safe way I can put in the required time until it is acceptable to escape to solitude. It is beyond comforting to know that there are other women who feel as I do. I wish I knew other autistic people.
Hi. How are you doing? I am pretty sure I am autistic and just a few days realized it. Small talk has always been hard for me. The last years I have tried harder doing it because I wanted to offer even more support or help în some way someone. So, someone în the bus would feel like sharing stuff, so I listen and also talk more than I used to. I understand that its hard to find real friends, not just for autistic people unfortunately. Maybe you could start a blog, where maybe you dont even need to share your face. You could creat a channel where you just share with others daily moments. Its hard but maybe it can help. Keep a journal where you really write your daily stuff. I like being alone and prefer it instead of small talk. But as yourself, I wouldnt mind talking about and sharing with a similar mind. But I keep doing one day at a time and just trying to improve myself. I think time is really running out on us right now and there are some real important stuff we have to take care of. I wish you all the best and hopefully you will find all you need. And, please dont mind this, but if you havent, try establishing an relationship with God. Approaching Him will make you understand so much and help you în many ways. I am sending you a few hearts cause I love hearts and have many which are stones shaped like hearts.❤❤❤
I am going to a local little senior center that serves lunch for $2.00 to elderly. Since I don't want to be social everyday, I can call in if I feel like showing up for my plate. This is a piece of socialization I can moderate at my age. And they always want to do trips which being penned in a bus w ppl will be a no, gardening at my house w pets will win out I already now. But a lunch now and then I can handle.
You do know other autistic people now! This is a real community in its way. But I feel your statement. It's exhausting to deal with small talk and going along with norms that don't fit. If you're near a major metropolitan area there might be ND hangouts being organized on meetup... just one idea to try.
I've been a low masker and always interacted in this way and experienced social judgment as a result. But even before I got the autism diagnosis at 53, I used to say like Popeye, "I yam what I yam." This doesn't mean that I didn't experience the trauma of being autistic in an allistic world. However, masking is associated with poor mental health outcomes for autistic people. Meanwhile, I'm a joyful person... and I'm going to be me. I once had a pin that I'd wear that said, "Say it out loud, 'I'm odd and I'm proud!'".
I wonder how many are masking around, each other?
I can relate to everything. Hating Girly stuff, not being able to advocate for myself in conflicts, putting on the smile, having to skip the networking/socialising and therefore limiting my career chances, not being able to be smart because it's interpreted as arrogant and blunt, and many more. Thanks for this talk!
"not being able to advocate for myself in conflicts"
Ah yes, this hits home. In order to improve this I went to the gym, got strong, took up Krav Maga lessons which increased my overall confidence. I can deal with it better, but I still HATE conflict tho. Especially in relationships with overbearing women for the pettiest of reasons. I hate it so goddamn much. It's for the most part completely unnecessary and draining. Guess I will never cohabitate.
@@zakzwijn8410 i dont understand. Did you go to the gym and learn krav maga so you would beat people as “standing up for yourself in conversations “ ?
@@lovepeace2373 No I hate violence and always try to avoid it. I'm introvert and also autistic and recently found out I have an avoidant attachment style as well but going to the gym and taking krav lessons gave me the confidence to speak my mind more in general conflict situations, e.g. in conflicts with neighbours.
Speaking up in relationship conflicts has more to do with confronting the avoidant attachment style instead of going along with it and not with getting strong.
@@zakzwijn8410 Thanks for the explanation, makes sense to me. Good that you found that for you.
Everything you said but ESPECIALLY the "not being able to be smart". I realized that I had literally both "dumbed myself down" and chose to stay quiet when I knew that I knew something because I learned that people did not respond well to my intellect. Yeah, and as a kid, I'd say whatever to whomever it needed to be said to until I learned that it got me in trouble constantly and BIG trouble.
Wish I had known I was autistic when I was younger. Being diagnosed at 69 is too late but at least I now understand my social anxiety. Masking, zone outs and anxiety put an end to too many relationships.
I am the same age as you and have my assessment after Christmas……
@@Catherine-cv1hj For me it was just great to understand why I was how I am and quite liberating. I just work on some mindfulness exercises to overcome the anxiety that sometimes paralyses me. Have a great Christmas
I hope this response isn't accidentally unempathic. I feel really sad for you, and I understand that many opportunities have passed. But there may still be time for people to chose to spend time with you as you truly are.
@@AlexLouiseWest All good thanks. I feel better for knowing and my wife feels better. I even have a better relationship with my first wife. Happy days. Have a Merry Christmas and/or Happy Holidays
@@johnsadler6441 Thank you.
An eye opener for me, in this video, was, recognizing that I watch/listen to people around me when they say they dislike a behaviour in a third person and I make a mental note to not do that. So my masking is mostly (I think) about my fear of being abandoned. This behaviour has eroded my inner self to the point of being almost like a blank slate for others project themselves. They get mirrored and feel stronger after being with me, but I never get that from them.
Nina, I could not agree with you more. Thank you. 😊
I want to thank everyone who showed that I am not alone.
That really means a lot to me!
I resonate so much with what you said about how people get stronger from being with you but you don’t get that in return.
I have lived my entire life being so exhausted, drained, and depleted by the myriad of people who’ve wanted to be in my life and even insisted and persisted to invade my space/ life.
I’ve always been a magnet for people to come lay on all their problems to and help them and fix them, and especially for toxic people who ultimately were using, abusing, taking advantage of, and exploiting me… and giving absolutely nothing in return in the way of mutual respect, support, friendship, ect, and more often than not, leaving me/ abandoning me when they’re all better/ over their crisises/ taken everything from me/ ect.
I’ve had to learn/ gain some very serious personal boundaries in recent years and then be despised because of my newfound usage of the word “NO”.
But I had no choice to, because of how much my health was continually becoming worse and worse and developing multiple autoimmune diseases over the years.
The struggle is real. For sure.
@@JuniperJenico Yep, that is exactly how it was! I have a long way left to go, but I'm working on it. Took me a whole year to kick a person out of my life and another year to 'unfollow' on social media. Toxic at it's core.
@@ninajansson5826 hugs 🤍 it does get better and easier the longer and more you go establishing healthy boundaries and maintaining them through daily practice. I’m not 100 percent there yet either, but boy, I sure have come a very long way in the past couple of years and especially the last 6 months. I’ve found that the healing I’ve gained throughout my journey has been phenomenal. Stick with it and you’ll see major rewards.
I just got out of prison. Being autistic in prison has worn me out totally. Even neurotypical people have to be on guard 24/7, but as someone who is on the spectrum it was a wild ride. A room filled with 200 women making all kinds of sounds at all hours of the day and night, no personal space, food texture and taste issues, blanket texture sucks. Man it was hard.
What are you doing now?
"Going straight", one hopes.
But you need peace. Are you finding it?
@@lindaclairesartori i am sober. But i am very depressed. Self isolating a lot and having a lot of passive suicidal ideations. But i have a good support from my family and even my parole officer is chill af and supportive. So i have resources. I just need to do some work on my self. Thanks
@@lindaclairesartori i really want to thank you for reaching out. I have felt so alone and abandoned lately. Like no motivation at all. But as of 2 weeks ago, i decided to make the active choice to just eat and bathe every day. Just by doing those 2 things, i have seen a great improvement in my mood.
That sounds like hell. I don't know if I could shower in prison. I have a hard time with the idea of showering where other people have showered. I know the food would be really hard for me too. I pretty much have 4 things I eat and can't stand the texture of most foods.
Wow. I felt moved to write to you after reading your comment. You’re one strong human. Just eating and sleeping enough, and showering can be really hard sometimes. You are not alone.
When I have bad days I tend to be really hard on myself but I have to remind myself that other people struggle too and not get too self involved in my sadness. Sending you a big hug.
Holy shit the part about going out to parties and feeling good about “successfully ” doing it. That’s exactly how I feel. I despise most social situations and avoid them but when they go well I feel elated. It’s knowing that I can do this thing that I’m supposed to be able to.
I hate when people say, don’t put a label on yourself. I fairly recently realized I’m autistic. I took the Baren-Cohen autistic test and scored moderate to severe. I’ve masked all my life, have a very high IQ, but as I’ve aged my autism has become much more evident. Doctors have diagnosed me with depression, ADHD, anxiety, but never autism. It makes me angry. If I had known sooner, my whole life would have been different, I would have made different choices, better choices. My son is autistic, but unbeknownst to me his father (who raised him) didn’t want him “labeled “ so he’s gone through life with all these issues thinking he’s stupid when he’s not. It’s destroyed his whole self worth, something his father reinforced. Diagnosis is so important.
I just took that test... scored high for autism ... not a shock, lol. I'm 56 and always was different, or the outcast or bullied in school. i also have a genius IQ and now I'm basically a hermit as I cannot tolerate being in public or going to social gatherings. Been diagnosed with anxiety and depression before but I'm really not depressed.
I just need two or three days to recover from any kind of social activity requiring me to "people"
Thank you so much for this comment.
🩵
"Where do you feel like you can be most yourself?" by myself.... was my answer before she said it. Masking takes up so much energy. So tired after being with people for any length of time. You mask because your real self scares other people.
THIS "You mask because your real self scares other people."
So my daughter and I were both officially diagnosed with autism this year, she at 12 and myself at 40, and this is 5 years after my son received a diagnosis at age 5.
I've shared with my daughter that I was raised by parents who thought they were raising a quirky but nuerotypical child as they did not have an understanding or tools to know better. Lifelong suffering ensued. I've since confronted the internalized ableism in myself, and acknowledged to my daughter I started the first 12 years of her life doing the same thing as my parents, even with a known asd diagnosed person in my household for the last 5 years.
And now I know better, and in real time, we are going to learn about our brains together, and this time, there are tools to cope.
I am unable to separate socializing and masking. I spent a lifetime feeling like a failed extrovert, now knowing the imposter syndrome was real. I am no such extrovert. I do have a series of scripts and a curated personality that emulates a manic pixie dream girl as that seems to be where I can camouflage what leaks out. But just like the trope, the character is fantasy.
This was wonderful.
Great content.
Healing.
It's most excellent to learn from your experience.
Well said, everyone. You're very powerful.
Oh my God... Just reading this was shocking, it is as close to looking into a mirrored situation of not only my life but my kids. I am 43 and only just started to think, 2 months ago, that I may be autistic. I have a barely 18 year old daughter and a son who will soon be 14. I had felt my son might be autistic when he was 11/12 but pandemic happened and everything shut down. We couldn't get any appointments and trying to go through a school to diagnose your kid is ridiculous. When I started to really look at myself (what the hell is wrong with me) I started to read more and more. I came across articles about girls and women with autism and how under diagnosed they are. I found a list that was compiled by a woman diagnosed with autism later in life who had a son diagnosed first. The list she had was compiled not only from her own experiences but that of other girls and women diagnosed with autism. The list was shocking but overwhelmingly comforting, it's hard to explain. I saw myself and I saw my daughter. Some traits overlapped but some were distinctly our own. I was like.... Is it even possible to have that many autistic people in a family??? My little brother was diagnosed with Autism type 1 (Asperger's) when he was around 14 if I'm not mistaken. I think that growing up, I was overlooked. I was the only girl and middle child. I was just shy and nervous. My little brother is 9 years younger and his Autism was much more obvious I'm guessing. I've just gotten so good at masking that most people can't see that I'm trying so hard to look and be "normal."
Awesome for you and your daughter! What a blessing to make this discovery now, to recognize so many things, and to learn together with your daughter and also your son. Blessings to you!
@@lauraspicer6541 I have identified autism in most of my first-degree family, going back to my great-grandfather. I think since there are genes involved and people may be drawn to others like them this should not be unusual. Many are/were highly gifted, but the gifts were never properly actualized. Personality is a different dimension, so these people can look very different. (See ""big 5" traits). I can see different forms of masking in them, too.
One family member is highly gifted with people, a primary special interest, so that would be missed. It's a lot to process when you first learn about it. No one but me knows it's autism, but there are a lot of other diagnoses, ADHD (everyone pretty much), OCD, borderline/bipolar, Tourettes, depression, etc. Some of these overlap, some are results of struggles with being undiagnosed autistic, but some are misdiagnoses. I can only hope these family members figure it out. I told a couple of them I was, but they didn't believe me, etc. It didn't go well. That's the hard part for me.
Though people often don't like it being mentioned, the show Young Sheldon though not so much Big Bang I think showed a little of this in the family (kids). He's the one ID'ed as autistic/gifted. But his sister is highly gifted with people. And the older brother with mechanical things (see the show on him finding leaks in tires). This made me wonder about the show's creators either seeing or experiencing something in a family system. Of course, fictionalized and exaggerated.
As I'm watching this, I'm noticing how often everyone nods with understanding in the background, and it feels embracing. They get it. Everyone gets each other. It's wonderful.
It's trippy to watch them nodding as I'm nodding to myself... currently about to be 30.. and just realizing I'm relating with 90% of statements said by Autistic women diagnosed later in life. And then take all the tests and find out it's very likely... when I had no idea I could have potentially been masking to myself this entire time.
@@NashGnomers It's turning out to be a relief for me, akin to realizing that I've been wearing two left shoes this whole time. Now I can get a proper pair of shoes, learn to walk correctly, and feel right with myself.
@@neonGawdzilla I can absolutely relate
I kept looking for the nods and appreciating them so much because they affirmed my definite shared sense that what was being said was so accurate and meaningful as someone living the autistic experience
@@neonGawdzillaGreat analogy!
Thank you SO MUCH! I grew up being told that I was just overly sensitive and highly intelligent and I got into so many toxic relationships because no one taught me how to avoid them (and my family’s treatment of me growing up primed me for them.) My children had all been diagnosed with ADHD or autism before I ever even considered it, and I remember telling my oldest that I thought maybe I should get assessed because I thought I might be autistic. When she, and all of her teenaged siblings, finally finished laughing hysterically they said “Mom! We thought you knew!” So yeah, at 48 diagnosed autistic and adhd. This explained a LOT.
Same; I was the "sensitive, gifted child".
Good job! I am convinced the road to success with Asperger’s is a devoted and understanding partner and to surround themselves with the same you raised yours very well!
Some is luck though so remember to hug your lovely kids you raised! Aspies need to learn they don’t have to know or absorb everything! I told my producer I needed to have someone to follow me around and say “you are just fine, Carol!” all the time! Producer Tony Bill heard me and said “That’s what agents are for!” Hollywood is full of us!
What great kids! ❤️
I’m autistic and have adhd too. Similar journey for me except I’m 54.
Me too, 57
Shannon did an excellent job describing the layers people of color have to handle with our Autism and how people of color were missing from the panel. I do hope I will be able to see more people of color on a panel about Autism as I am in the process of late diagnosis and now entering the world with how to be a cis gendered woman, a person of color and mid way in my thirties now discovering my Autism. I feel life is starting over again for me but I’m also excited to see my true self 🤗
Thank you for your kind comment. Make sure to check out work by Tiffany Hammond (Fidgets and Fries), Helen Hoang, Talia Hibbert, Danny Whitty, and Jude Afolake Olubodun if you aren't already familiar with them. There are some really amazing autistic POC activists and writers out there. As I was getting diagnosed, three of my friends who are Black women disclosed to me they were self-diagnosed or in the process of getting a formal diagnosis at the same time. I share your hope for the future. Good luck on your journey.
@Do Something Different- More than welcome, thank you 😊
i hope to see way more black autistic people too, as i've recently heard a mother explain how she literally fears her autistic son will get shot by the police (in the usa) if he had a meltdown in public. this has opened my eyes so wide and has forever broken my heart. we all need to learn so much more about black autistic experiences, and everybody else's, because there is an emergency and lives need literally be saved.
i wish you the best of luck on your personal journey as well.
@DarkLittlePeople- Thank you, yes this is a true concern and I hope more understanding of how people of color show signs of Autistic behavior may differ from others. Here’s to the future! 🤗
Thank you for saying this! This is exactly what I was thinking. I feel being a recently self-diagnosed Autistic Black Woman, I can relate to so much of what this panel discussed, but there was a layer missing. One of which is being brought up in the American South where my intelligence wasn't even acknowledged until middle school. Being separated from the "smart kids" just because of the color of my skin meant until the age of 12 meant "fitting in" and masking for what felt like survival . This was the 1980's and things are hopefully different now, but the trauma of those early years really made my need to mask, code-switch, and just "fit in" so important to me.
I really appreciated Liz's "I'm masking because they can't cope with it, not because I can't cope." (in relation to the small talk)
I absolutely love that at the start this conversation was conducted in an orderly way (like all of Paul's bigger group conversations on this channel). It's not just easier to navigate for the participants, but it's so much easier for me to consume as an autistic person.
The transition on the screen was really well done too. I'm grateful for how polished this is visually so it's not too overwhelming with a gazillion frames to have to focus on.
It's wonderful to see everyone's different takes, experiences and reactions. The things that are important or relevant to each autistic woman are both varied and overlap. It's such a heartwarming experience to watch this. Thank you so much. I'm so glad Paul posted both the short version along with the full version for everyone's individual preference or need.
I'm so alarmed and confuzzled that the participants didn't talk over each other accidentally. I just can't handle those cues well and I talk over people every 30 seconds. XDDD
Please do more of these where possible with different types of groups to talk on various topics to do with Autism and neurodivergence. Someone mentioned late diagnosed autistic men, and I'd also like to hear from multicultural groups of autistic adults too (such as men/women of colour).
The audio was definitely edited to disallow multiple simultaneous speakers. There's a moment where Angie is asking Shannon a question at 57:10, but the question is inaudible.
Yep don’t talk so much especially about stuff I find interesting and quirky in the world. Everything from Roman lunch counters 2000 bc and woodpeckers filling an attic full of 600 lbs of acorns. I have to force myself to shut up and physically wait for my turn to talk. Very difficult. I hate working in teams and must do it often.
@@martyknox4 that's alot of acorns! 🤣
Not talking over each other because they were muted unless it was their turn, because otherwise it would be impossible, and he announced when he was going to take away the guardrails. It's absolutely necessary for me in this kind of set-up to be muted unless Im specifically supposed to be speaking, because my inability to differentiate someone's pause from them being finished, combined with the delay inherent in the set-up means that I bumble through the conversation like a verbal bull in a china shop, alternately talking over people and slapping my hand over my mouth. The usual conversational landmines times ten.
Also notice that there is NO BACKGROUND MUSIC, which I find annoying and distracting --like visiting someone' home and finding that they have TV sets blaring in all the rooms.
Oh ladies, you are singing my SONG!!! I've suspected I'm autistic for years. I was formally diagnosed with ADHD (impulisve) in the late '90s. Today, at 51, I'm self-diagnosed autistic. You are my people, NO DOUBT!!! The cost of the mask has hurt me. Pain to me. Now, I'm unmasking, and the cost is hurt to those around who thought they knew me (how could they when I DIDNT KNOW?). My husband is having a really hard time, and I just don't know what the cost will be. It scares me. A lot. But, I don't want to end up dead, so I have to unmask and just be me. I have to. I'm terrified I'll lose my husband. I'm terrified I'll lose friends. But, I have to do this. I'm exhausted, and I won't survive if I don't shed the mask. At least not wear it 24/7 like I've done my whole life
Will pray for you. I’ve done this and it’s been very very very hard….
People don’t like me now and there is more tension, but I sense it’ll be ok in the very long end.
It is a trade off, unfortunately-
@Chloe S Thank you for your prayers!
I feel you. I share this fear.
@@bacchira1251 it ain't easy, is it.
Similar, but I'm much older. I've dissociated away the years, staying alive somehow without skilled help for this and for trauma. But now I must stop masking.
These conversations have helped me a great deal to appreciate and understand both my husband and daughter. For years and years I felt rejected when he came home from work and literally slammed himself into his office...But now, I know he needed to unmask and unwind from having had an entire day of stress. Many times they both come home and are very angry, and there are melt downs and shut downs...This I took personally until a few years ago, now I am beginning to understand the level of suffering they must experience every day. (Thank you)
Thank you, that's very good of you to express.
O yeah wow that must've been hard for you to understand, I can see why u would've been hurt by that
I appreciate you taking the time to learn about them. I personally find the outside world very intense and need a good amount of alone time without any expectation to put on airs for others to equalize myself.
Watch Mark Hutton Videos--its absolutely important cuz its NOT your fault to have d NEEDS. Trying to understand why he’s this or that does NOT make him wanting to understand your needs. Its not the “need” matters, its d “put own needs aside for partner/kids” matters. A strong partner will come home cozy up wife n kids for 20 min FIRST so they wont Inaverdently cause ppl to feel like they are invisiable (if the dude is all engaging n attentive to coworkers n customers ALL DAY) n comes home first thing passing u to “clean up”. Very soon a lot of wives will have d term-Casandra Syndrom(question self worth, feeling numb, depression, anxiety , hopeless, helpless--- often ppl with ASP thrive on Strict routine), it will slowly break u .
@@birdtj82 Mark Hutton has some interesting stuff
"who would want to be autistic if they're not autistic?" is something i've said to myself a lot the past few weeks, after self-identifying as autistic.
Same😊😊
Some may argue that there are folks using that label disingenuously for "attention," but I don't think they actually want all that comes with autism. I wonder if my wanting to identify myself as autistic was a form of falsely trying to put myself into a category that doesn't accurately describe me, even if I have nothing to gain externally (from others) regardless of whether I consider myself autistic or not. Lots of imposter syndrome here, which I've also experienced with ADHD before I was professionally diagnosed earlier this year.
Dipping my toes into the autistic community and letting myself think I am plausibly autistic gives me a sense of self-acceptance and compassion I could not gain through anywhere else. It feels right, in an indescribable way. And yet, I still wonder if I am mistaken or not. What if I'm just trying to run away from something else? What if it's not autism, and I am just a fundamentally broken allistic person? Possibly, the traits I have that are shared by autistic people are not true to me, and I've just picked up all of these tendencies because I'm just that good at copying others, because I am just a husk of emptiness without others. It often feels like I was not meant to be a person, or meant to exist at all.
I think the day I can openly, without shame or doubt, call myself autistic would be like a warm, comforting hug. I don't know. I wish I can access a formal diagnosis, but seeing as it's not "medically necessary" (not because I don't struggle, because I do, but things like hypersensitivity can be treated without an expensive evaluation. I also fear that because I'm "too smart," and display hyperempathy as opposed to the stereotyped hypoempathy (which I think is misleading, but that's a separate convo I've already wrote a wall of text on somewhere else), and other non-stereotype behavior due to being ADHD too will hinder me from getting an accurate assessment
Yes!!!!! Somehow I keep dismissing the validity of me being "autistic" because I don't stereotypically present as per society's understanding and I need this reminder. :)
@@cameronschyuder9034 this was very well said, I relate to all of it. thank you for sharing your experience.
I think I am after learning about myself the past few weeks. I am unsure how I feel about it, but I feel negatively about it. At the same time, I have always been this way. But I think that learning about neurodiversity will help me in my job in Human Reaources. I am currently at an HR Conference, and they talked about emotional intelligence and the spectrum. Learning how to communicate based on different personalities. I let out a loud sentence during lunch and then felt ashamed. Maybe nobody noticed because I mask pretty well. I am pretty sure some knew. Last night we had a dinner and the newer guy next to me, and much younger, did zero to help me feel like a part of conversation. Today was mich more comfortable for me. 😊
The lady in Tasmania nailed it for me regarding masking. It's about "fitting in" as best we can, yet it comes at a great cost mentally, emotionally, and even physically, and requires probably 2-3 times the recovery time behind closed doors than normal people might need. Dx'd 20 years ago and I still struggle with it because I mask well enough(?) for friends/family to not understand why I must retreat so often, that it makes me wonder why, as well.
Thank you so much for this.
And thank you Shannon " I cannot be trusted to be my own advocate in a conflict situation."
Your words crystalized my life experience. Deeply grateful.
Thank you for your kind comment.
This
Me too, brings so much into perspective for me and takes a lot of the self hate I have about this part of who I am off my shoulders. I have always deeply thought about this and tried to work out why I can’t do this for myself effectively like other people can. What an amazingly insightful video so thankful for these women sharing their experiences.
I had no idea I was masking until I had a complete meltdown recently and took a good hard look back and realized I was forced to mask so young that I just automatically did it. In my teens, I had large meltdowns all the time. In fact I was misdiagnosed with a large list of mental health disorders and now I firmly believe they were meltdowns that came from the vast amounts of energy that my vain attempts at masking were costing me. The effects of being forced to mask (and not even knowing I was doing it) almost cost me my life. I went to vast extremes to let out the pain and excess energy I was experiencing. This video has been so amazingly helpful for me to hear so many women that I identify with, at a time that I am studying this for myself.
Yes, even in writing we mask. Understanding ones self takes a lifetime.
Absolutely. Because you endured a certain “social programming” if you will via your parents during your upbringing. You have to “unlearn” those to see who you actually are.
At least that’s a part of it while discovering who the real you is.
Working on getting an official diagnosis now at the age of 40. I am almost certain that I am autistic as well as diagnosed ADHD. I feel this is the only thing that explains so much about me.
Yes, but it doesn’t have to be because of autism. Writing is very hard in a literary sense and that includes diary or autobiographical stuff. It’s actually an art form, just like singing or painting; not everyone has the gift for it.
40s and just figuring this out. What a relief. Ive always felt im from another planet and about 10-15 years behind average life milestones. SO GULLIBLE. I have been taken more times than I care to admit. Im finally catching onto people now.
I self diagnosed at 45 with Aspergers. I am now 55 and still learning. This was the most helpful video. I'm almost in tears over how much it's helped.
It's okay to say aspergers still. 💚
Amazing panel. I have recently self-diagnosed. Everyone on the panel seems to reflect my own experiences. It's revelatory that there are other people like me. I need to find some sort of local autism society. Apparently that's where all the cool girls are 🥰
haha yeah...me too! where are the local autistic cool girl clubs??
Very interesting, I felt identified when the person in a middle told she didn’t feel she was a good advocate for herself, when I’m talking to someone and open up, I’m so focusing on that person that I forget about my needs and not very good in setting my boundaries or defending my point at the moment of conversation and only after, when I overthink it in my head, I understand that I had to act different and set a boundary
Absolutely agree, this is me.
But, then, you are also altruistic and compassionate person, which has a huge moral value. That’s not to be disregarded.
Oh god I relate SO much to Shannon saying that people think she's being funny when it's literally how she thinks. People around me think I'm the funny, whimsical one and they think it's all sense of humour but its actually how I think and act. In a way it's good because good humour is received as a positive trait, but the downside is that I sometimes feel like I am appreciated only as a joke and fun entertainment instead of a whole, meaningful person.
I understand your feelings, but those people appreciate you for who you are and what you bring. The way you think, they way your are is quirky, fun and whimsical. You're different in a good way, and that's awesome! That doesn't mean you're not a meaningful person to them. Quite the opposite: they like the way you're different even when they don't fully understand you.
When you think about it, that's how we live. Most of the people around us are neurotypical, and we like them for their weird, quirky ways even though we don't fully understand them and how they think.
I relate right back. I used to think of myself as a recurring guest star in friend groups who always hovered on the outside but was never part of the main cast. Some of the people in my life turned out to only want that and others turned out to love me even when I was weird in ways that weren't fun at all. I hope you figure out who the latter group are for you. It's sad when you lose people from the former group, but it feels so good to know the people who remain really love you. Good luck on your journey.
But with regard of being funny, most of the people think someone is funny because they can relate to the funny things . Because they recognize it in themselves.
I suspect many comedians are on the spectrum . We think differently. When we share our insight some people see that as being humorous. I think of Robin Williams playing Patch Adams. He nailed it. Mostly because it was a non-neurotypical playing another non-neurotypical.
@@cogit8able Definitely! A lot of authors are on the spectrum too, as well as artists of different types. Like you said, we see the world differently, and that's interesting/funny/enlightening to people. It's a shame that so many of us end up losing faith in ourselves while growing up.
I am autistic and have always loved shopping. But I have always preferred to go alone in shopping centers, because then I can walk as much as possible "in my own world" while looking at things.
It's only been a year and a half since I found out I'm autistic (I'm now 49), and I've realized that one of my big interests has always been clothes, especially dresses. Which has probably made my attraction to shopping centers greater than for many other autistic women.
But I now also understand why I have always been completely exhausted when I have come home from such shopping trips. Often very happy, but at the same time completely out of energy. And I also understand now why I have often walked away from clothes I was looking at, when other people suddenly have come too close to me. I have previously only felt that I have not been able to "concentrate", because I "feel" other people's "energy" when they are too close in such situations. But have been used to it ever since I was a small child, so have sort of just accepted it without thinking anything more about it.
Now I understand that this is just one of many things I have simply "got used to" throughout my life, which I have now understood is about the fact that I am actually autistic.
And I have often "held out" by dissociating in many situations. Which I didn't realize I was doing.
No wonder I've ended up extremely burnt out over the years.
Oh my gosh that's the most relatable thing I've ever read. I love being in my own world and looking around in the store but I hate it because I have to look at everything and I love doing that but then I'm so exhausted. And my boyfriend now realizes this, and says "let's stay on track or you'll get tired" lol or "come on let's go to the __ isle now" which is funny lol. I have found out recently all my siblings are autistic. And I think I may be too. Listening to these women and comments like this makes me think maybe it's more than just ADHD for me.
So relatable!!
Wow. I thought that was just me!! Lol
Do any of you get tunnel vision while shopping because you have to look at everything when you're alone shopping? I can feel it coming on and know I've shopped too long because I've exhausted myself trying to look at everything. People kind of look at me like it's strange when I say that this happens to me when I shop.
@@imagebearer740
I wonder if it's
-ADHD inability to prioritise (must look at everything - what did I come here for?)
-compromised ability to filter out irrelevant information -I used to feel like all the items were screaming at me - especially in a place selling multiple small items like a sweet shop, makeup or homewares shop
-autistic 'fairness' ? (which I have to research to see if is a valid concept)
I have to give all items equal consideration and time and chance equally
- fairness extends to inanimate objects - I would feel tremendous guilt for not buying the ugly items, I didn't want to discriminate, as a child I would hug the toys I didn't like as much as the ones I did.
Easily abused because I will listen to criticism as intently as praise even if it's leveraged abuse!
I self diagnosed a few years ago but I was told by my church that I had to be diagnosed by a professional before I could be listened to. The questions I used to ask at church were ones they didn't want to talk about. I could never work out why. My Vicar secretly diagnosed me as having a dangerous personality type and got me into a lot of problems. My masking couldn't be maintained and I couldn't cope with the fears associated with the pretending that seems to happen in church culture. I got the silent treatment. It's given me time to look at what being autistic is about. I'm now aiming to stop the way our particular church environment became so harmful to me because I am autistic. Prejudice and discrimination is cruel. They honestly think what they did to me was necessary. I can laugh now, but it's great to have people writing testimonials against me at how difficult they've found my behaviour. My Vicar knew how to make my difficulties worse. I think the church saw me at my meltdown worst. I have to trust and have faith that I can show them what an autistic worldview is like.
I remain convinced it's an enabling thing to be an autistic Christian. The amount of curiosity I have has opened up a lot wonderful knowledge and growing Christian faith. Seems sometimes that typical thinkers don't mind not knowing much at all.
I'm 60 now. After being told I was evil, it's never felt so good to be me.
I just turned 71 and from time to time I have wondered if I could be somewhere on the spectrum…I’ve been a Christian for 40 years. I also have had experiences in church in which the many questions I have had and the struggle with church culture has seemed to be very problematic. I was constantly told not to be so intense and to lighten up. I learned many coping mechanisms to feel safe. I feel that only God can understand and have compassion on me, because He knows my inner being…but often I feel others wish to maintain a distance. I often feel abandoned. I am gifted in art and words but this does not help me to feel accepted. Your story means a lot to me. Thank you for shari g
I don't know the full details of your case, but l think this extreme stress you went through was "scapegoating" and as an artist, l would be so bold as to say l can see the effects in your habitual expression in your pic, and frankly you deserve so much better than being constantly wilfully misunderstood.
You're need to "heal the group" may be your idealism and superior logic at work, do you really need to go up against "a mob" again, as just one person?
I have a family member who has worked in a series of toxic workplaces over the last 20 years (all, like church, with prosocial mission statements!)
People love her, groups do not, they of course use her high level skills shamelessly.
I personally have a Church where l just go services, listen to one formal lecture a week, and then that's it, my low expectations have kept me safe, there is "a tribe" within that will never accept newcomers but always be polite, l call them "the janitors" in my head, because they are very diligent in their care for the fabric of the Church, but tight knit, have known each other for a lifetime.
I have highly superior pattern recognition, (people sometimes even ask me into meetings to silently observe the subtext)😉
What you discribed seems like very focused bullying, very uncharitable, every healthy group would be wise to accommodate neuro divergent thinking, it is the bridge to success in the outer world l have noticed, Rather than being the closed group degenerating into a self regarding cult.
Non neurotypicals always need more self care imo, that should come first
@@thestraightroad305 Jordan Peterson of all people is very clued up on the topic of
"The suffering artist" (He is also an artist and a highly eclectic collector)
He is quite scathing about how organisations that welcome "change agents" actually despise and exploit "creatives".
I joke with the few that are chatty at Church that l'm an "Urban Hermit".
Truth to tell l wouldn't mind being a contemplative and say an icon producer or somesuch, those of us who get to "go deep" are the blessed ones is my view tho.
Vanity vanity all is vanity.
@fionapimperton3210
I am Christian too and a long time ago I was involved in a Church that got into some pretty deep stuff as far as living "the Christian life".
Long story short...I and my 54 yr old son are still living w. the toxic after effects. Just want you to know the Christian community in general does not have a clue what to do w. any of us non- neurotypicals! I left church
but I haven't left God, nor He, me!
@@daisydriver5877 I don't think the church knows how to respond to me choosing to stay. I'm so much more clued up on the Bible and, more annoying for the PCC, the church representation rules and the CofE canon laws. They are incredibly impressive and compelling. Being the thinker I am, I find it amusing to see their puzzled response to my choice to stay, even though they'd rather I go. Canon law A8 is fantastic. Just found out that E1 allows me to ask the wardens to represent my concerns. The diocese was forced to initiate an independent investigation. So now I have evidence of the huge amount of prejudice and discrimination I've gone through. I know it's not a good way to make friends but it's possibly the only way to bring things into the light. They've got a lot of learning to do about neurodiverse thinking. And I hope to persuade them to behave a bit more like we're told to by God. We might all be able to grow up a bit and laugh at how difficult it is to actually love one another. That's if they can stop feeling offended and insulted by the way I think and speak and see and hear 😁 I'm not perfect but I'm not ashamed to be me and to love God the way I do. I thank him for those canon laws that prevents the church asking me to leave!!!! 😅
I am listening to this in tears! I have such a hard time relating to people at a deep level. I can make a little small talk but really despise it because it feels so fake!! I masked (apparently) that I was normal and often tried so hard to relate but many times I offended people and it hurt soo bad that they would get angry with me. It felt like I was saying something I genuinely cared about but nobody got it! So I just gave up trying to have friends. I’m 52 years old and this video has helped me so much and I haven’t even heard the whole thing. God bless you all. Thank you, thank you for sharing this video!
18:51 ‘undermining & dismantling any sense of myself so I could rebuild it to be whatever it needed to be.’ Angie is so well spoken and able to put the feelings into words.
I really enjoy these conversations about masking. I believe it is because once you realize that you are actively doing it you also begin to realize how draining it is. It is also scary if you have been masking your whole life because you have to come to terms with not knowing who you are, at least for me, and learn to embrace the fact that you are different.
This is extraordinary! I'm male, and autistic, yet I identify with so much of what these women describe. I too spent years trying to figure out what was "wrong" with me. I recieved so many diagnosises my head spun. Generalized anxiety. Depression. ADHD. Panic disorder. Agoraphobia. Refractory major depressive disorder. PTSD.
Oh, and I was tested and identifed as "Mentally gifted" (very high IQ) as a child. Talk about masking! My repeated failures in social, academic, and employment settings were attributed by my mother to "Boredom, lazyness or simply poor character. I was shamed by her and others constantly for being "brilliant but unmotivated" unless I was "interested in something." When "interested in something" I quickly became an expert in it, which created all sorts of social problems, and ultimately burn-outs, shut-downs, and withdrwal, depression, extreme anxiety, shame, withdrawl, and even suicidal thoughts.
I took an online autism assessment about 10 years ago, and almost maxed it out, yet dismissed it, because back then, autism was "rare and disabling" A couple of years ago my girlfreind, who I suspect is also autistc suggested by way of love and acceptance that autism was central to my personality. It took over a year, but ultimately I was formally diagnosed by an autism diagnostic specialist earlier this year.
Wow - what a revelation. It all makes sense now.
The final thing I'll say to anyone suffering from anxiety, depression, and especially suicidal thoughts is that ketamine infusion theraphy stopped all of that for me in 2018. Stopped it almost immediately - within hours. One treatment - though most people need a series of them. It was an absolute miracle in my case, and there's mounting evidence that autistic people in particular benefit enormously from the treatment. Dont take my word for it. Google "ketamine infusion therapy for depression" and dive in to the massive amount of research supporting it. If you are suffering, I urge you to consider it. It's safe and it's the most effective treatment for anxiety, depression and sucidal thinking ever discovered.
Huge thanks to Paul and the poarticipants here for sharing their experiences and insights into how autism and masking affect them. You are making a critical difference for people like me, who thought we were alone. Keep it up!
Sounds interesting to me. I have a lifetime of depression, anxiety, social anxiety/avoidance/inadequacy. I feel ive lost years of my life just lying on my bed trying recover from or prepare myself for behaving normally.
@@katella I dealt with something similar for decades. If your anxious and depressed, it's a medical emergency in my opinion. The fatality rate for recurring major depression is over 10%. That's similar to some forms of Malignant Meleanoma. The difference is, cancer is prefferable, because it doesn't directly cause severe emotional difficulties that inflict years of suffering before killing you.
I suggest Checking out ketamine infusion therapy, and see if it makes sense for you. My anxiety took about a week to abate, but the depression was gone within hours. The anxiety was the worst thing though, and now it's gone completely. Ketamine alone isn't going to fix your autistic life though. Or at least it didn't fix mine. What it did was get me back on my feet so I could put my life back together. One person described it as being like power steering for life. Everything gets easier as you find inner peace.
But I'm still trying to figure out how to actually be in the world without masking. I'm also slowly re-structuring my life and social circle so it honors and supports my autism rather than tries to shame and beat it out of me.
You could say I'm leaning into my autism now. If only I'd known 30 years ealier! =)
@@TheWilliamHoganExperience as far as ketamine therapy goes, I doubt whether I will be able to access that. I live on a Mediterranean island and psychological services are limited.
Popeye pushed spinach in late 1930s after tests were done to show damage and death in mice fed spinach. Very high in oxalates. Can form crystals wherever you have a weak link. Apparently autism first diagnosed around 1945. The WHO supplied vitamin k3. .menadione. .free to Africa. The CDC added folic acid to prenatal vitamins in 1991. Food fortification initiatives are largely funded by gates foundation. Saw folic acid added to most grains in 1998. Definate correlation between rise in ASD aound this time. Folic acid is added to most contraceptive pills and other meds. High amounts in most body building formula and in some so-called health products. Some genes are folate sensitive and am wondering why cows have..4 stomachs. ..is it because they eat mostly folate? There are also snp genetic polymorphisms where certain medications .. like lidocaine. .amitriptyline. .and a bunch of others can cause major problems for slow methylators. Please look for oxalates on yt. There are some really good ones..like Dr Ken Berry. As an aside its interesting to see how veganism vegetarianism is being pushed by those growing synthetic meat in labs. Feel that transhumanist agenda is hurtling forward at such a rapid pace...maybe the minds of the very people who reject this agenda and have capacity to stand against it are compromised by unmetabolized folic acid.
@@katella that is how my teen daughter spends her life when not at school and its a big concern to me how much of her life she is going to waste doing that.
@Shannon, your explanation of "I don't understand how much I compensate" resonates SO strongly with me. I'm sorry that you had this experience, but I am so extremely grateful that you shared it.
It struck such a cord with me as well! I also had an experience with a medical professional and did not defend myself; up to that point she had been so kind and seemed so aware, and then on a dime she crossed so many lines and violated my HIPAA rights. All I can remember is just dissociating - I had my infant with me, and I was worried about him. I was worried about repercussions of speaking up because of her position and the paperwork I needed.
I spoke to my sister afterwards who works in the medical field because I still somehow thought, “maybe I’m overreacting. Maybe this wasn’t that bad” and she was horrified and strongly recommended I report her. She pulled up her licensing and the medical board info and was so awesome and supportive, but even after the fact I couldn’t bring myself to do it. I was a few months postpartum, my job was draining all energy my newborn wasn’t, and I just… couldn’t.
It still makes my blood boil two years later and I refuse to ever go back to the clinic I saw her at. But it was a moment that sticks out because I’m also normally outspoken and strong willed. Close friends were shocked I didn’t tell her off then and there. But I just couldn’t.
I can be the fiercest defender of those I care about, but when it comes to myself I will take a lot of sh*t before I put my foot down. Boundaries have been so crucial and I’m lucky to have a partner that encourages me and supports me in that regard.
Hannah's advice (towards the end of the video) to consciously unmask to find out your baseline is really good, to practice "unmasking" sometimes, when we are safe to do so, to learn who you are and what you feel. The consequences Hannah talks about are really real too. We can't go back, but it's worth it. Journaling is quite good for this, as we can start to practice to be honest with ourselves there. We can start to practice to be honest with ourselves there (though I know it's difficult, as was also said). Living in dishonesty is a terribly place to be, even if we're doing it out of survival instincts, it seems to take a lifetime of practice to move out of. "Unmasking" is a spiritual practice in my opinion, and one every human being has to go through, it's just that, unlike neurotypical people, "masking" is so uncomfortable and undesirable for autistic people, we so want to be honest, and live in reality, and honesty is so natural for us. We are living in pain while we are masking. That's the conclusion I've come to in my lifetime so far...
@theelectricalengineer thank you for sharing your gentle, encouraging, compassionate, perspicacious thoughts and helping to make this a softer, kinder space to explore and reimagine, re-create, co-create (in an edgy, judgy, high pressure, performance-driven world) no matter where we are on our self-acceptance and self-actualization journeys... Your words and spirit reminded me of a Rumi quote about the garden, the field beyond conceptualizations of right and wrong doing, beyond prescriptive moralizing and one-up-ing pronouncements and power plays that lead to compliance and masking, and in this field of freedom and love, of disidentification with coping and survival mechanisms, here, Rumi says, our souls can meet, here nourishing communion is possible, where, because it is safe, we can dare to let our guards down, be our real selves and deeply share and connect.
@@susanbyron6499 that's so lovely Susan, thank you! I'd love to read that poem, if you wanted to share it or link to it? What you're expressing feels like a really good place to be :-)
After suffering Complexe PTSD after multiple natural disasters and abuse the masking seitch broke. I self diagnosed after doing all the online tests aa few months ago at age 58.and after my social worker recognized the symptoms after working in autism for 15 years it sent me on this path to self discovery. It explains sooooo much. I've lived in almost total isolation for 3 years since all the social norms and rules have changed. For the first time in my life, I can barely take care of my basic needs and avoid people and overstimulation. I am now learning to be more me and not be appologetic about it.
Oooh, boom! You just said a whole book right there in one sentence around 32:45 Shannon: "...men are evaluated on their potential, and women on their past success..." and now I'm crying. No wonder it has felt SO hard and toxic working in tech!
"It's not a bookstore, I'm not interested" I relate so so much! Thank you very much to everyone for sharing!
I think why most people dont get diagnosed or get diagnosed very late: 1) being uneasy around people- not going to appointments
2) financial barriers
3) fear of stigma/even self stigmatisation .
Excuse my english.
I'm diagnosed with ADHD, not diagnosed as autistic, but relate to and recognise a lot of what you talk about in your videos
I came to this video because I am self diagnosing as autistic these days, learning, re-framing my experiences with new understanding. I am struck by the depth of thought, the layers of masking, the layers of projecting what we think people want, creating ways to express "weirdness" by setting up an expectation of quirkiness or weirdness to both hide AND reveal our true autistic selves. I state facts. People think it's funny the way I do it, with humor. Ok, I guess I'm funny-in certain situations, in certain groups. I've been diagnosed with PMDD, Generalized depression, social anxiety, regular anxiety. I want to thank each person on this panel, you are helping me better understand my entire life, at 45, undiagnosed and starting to see myself in an entirely new light.
This is so recognisable for me, I masked my whole life, being really good in reading what the ‘room’ wants from me. Analysing what people want of me or expecting of me and doing it. Always exhausted and burned out. Taking over emotions of other people and mirroring their behaviour. But during my intense therapy for the last 3 years, I am learning who I am and to recognise when I am masking, so that I can have more control over my choices, my thoughts and emotions. Which is hard. But step by step, I am trying to stand more for who I am, and hopefully be closer to myself eventually.
Very interesting discussion. I have been masking to the point that I do not always know who I am and what I think, what I feel even. This has the effect that I allow some people speaking about me, defining wrongly my person, without being able to deny it, because a part of myself wonders whether this can be true. Like people saying: "you are a bad person because....", and wondering if this can be true, if my feeling of my being a good person could be a lie that I make to myself. I wished my English was better to explain it better, how devastating these life experiences are.
Ugh . Me too
@@visionvixxen thanks Chloé, it is a relief when you notice you are not alone :) Actually, now that I know the existence of this mecanism, and stopped masking, I have a better, more stable opinion on myself
It's become obvious to me over the last several months that I'm an Autistic woman. I have not been diagnosed with anything. I think growing up it was very obvious that I have ADHD and at some point I started to become extremely anxious. As I've become more comfortable with knowing that it was ok to have something "wrong," with me; I've come to feel certain that I am an Autistic woman with ADHD and likely GAD. The part that was really hard was telling others, just close family and some trusted friends ( I have few of those). I kept getting met with weird looks and dismissals. You can't be autistic, you aren't what we expect Autism to look like. I'm working on visiting with a psychologist but when you've never seen any type of professional for any kind of mental help.... It's terrifying.
The dismissals are because you are lazily adopting a label to force people into accepting your ineptness instead of coming to terms with the fact that you are missing learnt social, emotional and self awareness skills and not willing to put in the time and effort to learn the damn skills. You are practicing a huge degree of laziness and it’s not healthy for the people around you.
@@elsagrace3893 you're making incredibly huge inferences about a person you don't even know based on a very small amount of information. Get a hobby besides trying to make people feel like shit about themselves.
Good on you for taking the steps to see a psychologist! I found it terrifying to look for help and to start the process of opening up about what I was experiencing. I've got ADHD and the number of people who tell me I can't possibly have ADHD because I was considered "gifted" growing up and I'm very good at masking my symptoms is staggering. You know you better than anyone else!
What is GAD?
@@ClulssCrs3310 Generalized Anxiety Disorder
I identified with so much of this! First, Angie was just brilliant! She totally captured my experience and put it into words that I have not been able to find. Next, I really identified with the idea of "gendered" behaviors. Algorithms always seem to think I am a man, because my responses do not fit the "norm" for women. When I think back to childhood, I would have one bestie girlfriend; but, most of my friends growing up were boys. And, writing in my diary was always a fraught situation too, because I would judge and edit my thoughts, or look them later with disgust. Finally, at work, I can best be supported by employers who are willing to adjust their training to my learning style, instead of trying to make me fit their style; there is no right or wrong way to learn, only different approaches to it. I do not retain anything that is just spoken to me- I need to see it, write it, do it, and create a procedure for it. Employers should see that as a strength and an asset, rather than an irritation.
Wow, I never considered that my overly chatty thing is masking behaviour but it makes total sense.
Thank you so very much for your work. Your videos are saving lives!!! I am a woman aged 62, self diagnosed with AuDHD a year ago. I can now see the patterns in my family as well. I am in the process of doing "parts work" to help evaluate my inner world to stop the internal battles between the parts of me that disagree. Alcohol stopped working as a masking aid for me years ago and since being sober I struggle with finding balance. Autism medications are not an option for me so I am trying to manage with diet, cannabis and exercise. Every time I watch a video about women with Autism it is like medication for me. I feel well for hours afterward. It would be FANTASTIC if an online Zoom meeting or some forum for older women with Autism could be developed. Like an AA meeting, we could share our experiences, tips and hope in a safe environment where everyone is learning from each other. Being around people with Autism online in the comfort of my home is the greatest mental health practice I have ever experienced.
Amen 👏 great idea
Yes!!!
Yes!! I’d definitely participate!
So many "That's me!" moments. At 65 and self-diagnosed only a couple of years ago, I find revelations about myself and my life almost daily. Masking shielded me from some of the bullying. I'm seen by others as a chameleon, because I gained a talent for behaving according to my surroundings. Later in life, the ability made it possible for me to leave my personal problems at home and my work problems at work until I could lock myself away for a while to let the day's pressures go. Alone time has always been an essential way of maintaining my mental well-being. Whether with family, friends, or strangers, the inability to get off by myself will eventually result in a meltdown.
I love Liz so much… she deserves so much love and happiness 💚
Every one of these women do, but Liz has a special place in my heart just from watching her in this video
This was mostly helpful. I appreciate hearing from everyone’s perspectives.
I was shocked and horrified how Shannon’s experience and insight were completely blown off by the moderator. TWICE! Even after she asked for clarification that she was heard and understood. She brought up a very good situation and also brought up the challenges of being neurodivergent and a person of color or another marganalized group within the realm and Paul blew both of these situations off.
It was cringeworthy watching and listening.
I have sobbed my way through this realizing I have been in full-on denial of being autistic and I am 55 years old. With all the tell-tale evidence and relational damage but no real trusted emotional support, I just feel hopeless sometimes. Hannah's contributions here are particularly informative and convicting to me. Thank you.😢
and.... thank you for recognizing not-yet-diagnosed people. In the US today it is virtually impossible to get scheduled for a diagnosis if you are over 50. Some insurance companies will not cover it unless "accommodations" are needed for school or employment.
I identified with parts of what everyone said, but particularly with Shannon's experience with her therapist, where she just nodded and smiled. I know that experience well. It was brave of her to share
Yes, me, too...my mutism kicks in whenever someone says or does something that makes no sense or feels like it puts me in danger. I go silent, and just nod, and hope whatever it is ends soon. I cannot speak up to defend myself or tell someone to leave me alone. It's caused me untold pains over the decades (I am 65). I often blamed myself for assaults, even, because I didn't, couldn't, say anything to make it stop. It was very brave of her to bring that up, and I hope others supported her afterwards about it. It felt like the subject was changed too quickly. Maybe that was just editing. Thanks for bringing it up, Karin.
Thankyou for acknowledging the lack of POC in this panel. This is still a lovely and helpful video 🥰
Thank you for your kind comment. Make sure to check out work by Tiffany Hammond (Fidgets and Fries), Helen Hoang, Talia Hibbert, Danny Whitty, and Jude Afolake Olubodun if you aren't already familiar with them. There are some really amazing autistic POC activists and writers out there.
Wow .. much kudos to your amazing panellists for being so honest and generous with their experiences.
What really struck me is that the majority of the panel are so recently diagnosed (either self or otherwise is no matter: once you recognise something in yourself you can’t unsee it) even if they had a sense of being autistic before.
This for many late diagnosed autistic women is an immense time of unpacking, self-reflexive thinking: it’s a process which can be affirming, grieving, tumultuous, to mention just a few possible descriptors. A new gaze when applied to yourself really does involve grappling with your identity and questioning past experiences and how you reasoned them to yourself versus how you may now in light of recognising your autism. And there’s literally decades of life lived to process.
I wish these ladies all the best in their processing. It can take quite awhile… but it’s worthwhile.
Paul, unmasking as you touched on at the end, is definitely a future panellist topic in itself.
Hannah's experiences as an "extrovert" with the hyper-social, very emotional, extremely empathetic person really resonated with my own narrative. I realize just how much I mask as a social person in order to fit in and stay under the radar. Thank you for sharing!
Holy cow! I was going to leave a big long comment about how I related to each one of these women, but there got to be too many instances to comment on ha ha. I am 42, not currently diagnosed as autistic, but have suspected it for about 10 years and now am considering going through the diagnostic process.
However, I would like to say to Liz, you remind me of my dear old granny. She was always so bored with the other folks in the retirement community and was constantly reading and on the internet to entertain herself. I am so happy to hear that you are still learning new languages and using your ESL certification! Stay active and don't let other folks your age get you down!
I have spent so many years wondering how the heck is everyone doing this!?!? All the time!?!" (the full days with other people at work, on vacation with others, hanging out, constant communication, talking, noises, smells... how are they surviving? Why can't I do it!?? Why can't I be more like them and enjoy all of this?) But I've kept it a secret, because I thought I was just failing at being a human. To this day, no-one would ever suspect that I am melting down inside and am utterly exhausted most of the time. I am working on changing that now, though...
This is an amazing video of amazing brave women. I am so happy I found it, didn’t want it to end! I am 48 and just starting on this self discovery journey…it all makes incredible sense. My son has autism and I am starting to think I could have too. All my life I have been masking not sure I was masking…myself? But you pay a price, I don’t know if I will ever be so brave as you ladies but we need women like you leading the way ❤ I hope you can do more videos, you are all fab!
This was such an enriching conversation. Thank you so much to everyone who participated. 🙏💜
Wow! I can relate so much! I'm 52 & will be scheduling an appointment this week to see if this is all true for me too.
Thank you all for sharing your experiences ❤
Shannon's experience really reverberated with me, especially when she talks about how losing the mask has the repercussion of losing one's skills in social situations, how the two are intertiged and the need for new ways of exisiting and self discovery.
What an absolute fabulous group of people. It remains me of AA. Where everyone knows EXACTLY what you mean. You don’t have to explain and the room is full of nodding heads. I would so love to meet you all. Well done! Yes, I shed a few tears coz it felt so real.
Sinéad Bloom That makes sense . Little girls are interested in being friend with other kids , older woman are not . This lack of interest must feel like being forced to do something we don’t want to do and leads to burnout.
These women are absolutely spectacular, courageous and lovable in their voluntary vulnerability and honesty. Such thoughtful answers. It is empowering to learn about autism and perhaps understand my own journey because of their willingness to be open. I appreciate you all so much
wow!! I am not sure why yt brought me here, but I am glad I stayed. I resonate with pretty much every woman on the panel... Claudia resonates the most with me. I too, can switch it on and off. until I get burned out, and then I can't. The house burning down allegory is spot on. I was in the gifted program growing up... and I am wondering what that criteria was. At the same time, I resonate very much with Shannon in that I was able to mask while being myself, saying weird things all the time and whatnot. Many of my past friends just kinda flittered away. As I am into my 40s now, I am ok being alone. With that being said, I also haven't had many romantic relationships... like fleeting ones, sure, but none that lasted. I get along pretty well by myself, although I do fall into PTSD/Anxiety/depression, and I would totally love to have people come check on me and force me outside in these times, just like Angie. HOLY MOLY... the whole fact stating/being blunt is something I have struggled with my entire life. I find it funny when people ask you for an opinion, and then get mad at you for giving what they asked for. I have never been one to sugar coat anything...
I relate so much to what Angie was describing... I learned to mask so early, I turned inwards and began to dismantle to the point of dissociation and in highschool for years I would mask all day, come home and cry myself to sleep. No one knew. My whole agenda to survive school was to make myself as uninteresting as possible... I feel like the scariest thing that I am feeling now about my self-diagnosis of autism is the work of unpacking the complexity of my masking now... I have really struggled with confidence my whole life, and the confidence that I have exhibited has most often come from a mask... I am looking for an authentic confidence, but I feel like I have no reference point.
The reference point goes so deep, how can I be honest about what's fun if I took what people call fun as fun and for me it was successful exhausting masking not experience of engagement and joy etc.. redefining what's me and what's survival behavior so complex . .. wishing u the best
It has been so meaningful to me to hear from other adult autistic women, particularly those who have also been or still are academics. I finished my Ph.D. in 2016, and now that I'm teaching at a regional public university, I'm really struggling. I'd love to know more what Shannon's experience with teaching has been.
Coming from one who taught high school and then 8th for 21 years, after Covid in 2021 I had to resign due to Burnout….it was hard because I’d been doing it for so long but there were so many ways that I was masking but failing miserably as it relates to social interactions with my students , being seen as cold and mean because of my bluntness and no desire to mingle and “clique up or suck up” to the powers that be…made it seem like I was negative or not a “team player”. Now I’m trying to navigate a new normal outside of a classroom and still looking for a more meaningful job.
As a retired teacher in Special Education I realize that as a autistic woman I had a sensitivity to energy and could sense a child's non verbal needs. Other teachers always thought my diagnosis were off base but what I sensed was always spot on after the child was professionally assessed. This was a gift that could not be hindered by other adult 3D thinking, my senses were stronger than what was happening around me in the 3D world. I am happy with who I am and the gift God gave me. I no longer mask. My idea of having fun does not match the extroverted 3D world and that is okay. Dancing to a different drummer is a gift to celebrate in my eyes.
I don't remember the last time I was able to watch an hour long segment (a panel on top of it) without switching to different websites or activities while also half listening to the video.
Thank you for sharing your experiences 🙏
I am an NT in a relationship with an aspie. I really appreciate you all opening up and sharing your stories. It has helped me get closer to increased understanding. Life is challenging but I understand how much more challenging it must be if you are autistic
The diversity of experience, depth of understanding and self reflection displayed here, is so profound, it is unsettling. It will take me quite some time to process this privileged information into my life and relationships. Thank you to each of you for your genuine offering of yourself and your experience of life. It provides the kind of intimate knowledge that can be therapeutic and healing.
After watching hundreds of Nero-diverse videos it is amazing to watch the evolution of material offered over the years. Each year bring new insights and areas of interest and awareness to what makes each of us a unique and special person. Thank you Paul for your significant contribution to that effort.
On a somewhat trivial detail. The software used to highlight each speaker makes it much easier to focus on who’s speaking, thanks for that. I do not know the time constraints that limited this gathering, yet I would have watched this all the way through, even at 3-5 hours. Please do not restrict the length of the video unless necessary. I know there is so much more that could be offered by the magnificent women. I watch in segments because there is so much to absorb and I watch it multiple times.
The information and awareness provided through this panel is priceless. It literally is like going to group therapy…I can not thank each of you enough!
I am so thankful that you have all opened yourselves up enough to be able to speak your own voices. I took a course in that once: "Finding Your Voice" or some such. I hear myself in your voices, so just know that you're not alone. And please know that this video is probably helping thousands of people understand what's going on with them. My whole life I've wondered if my presence on earth was really worth it to anyone. Now I know, at 64 years, that I'm just a late bloomer. Trying to live in a world of normal people who have no clue what it's like to be me has been torture. Now that I'm retired from the job hunt (one after another for decades because I was too odd for them), I've remembered that I like to paint, and write, and compose. I've learned so many things about so many topics, because I've always been a mental sponge and avid reader. I've also found a way to express my frustrations with the world. THANK GOD for the internet!
I've learned to be able to forgive myself for being me, and to forgive others for not understanding. That in itself has been a life-changer. I've attempted to express what it's like to be me, with limited acceptance, but have learned to accept that when people don't accept me for some reason it's mostly because of something about them, and I no longer internalize every little thing that seems amiss in someone else's response to me. To be frank, I've learned to not really care what people think of me, but be the very best, nicest me I can be in any case. That way, I know it's not me if something goes awry with a conversation at some point. Yes. I DO overthink! LOL
In any case, THANK YOU ALL. Your contribution is appreciated.
I'm only 16 minutes into this video, and I'm about to start ugly crying. THANK YOU for including self diagnosed women. I've suspected autism for myself since 2008, and pretty much self diagnosed last year. I'm trying to get an official dx, but my gosh, having these ladies on my screen saying what they're saying is so indescribably validating. Like, maybe just maybe everything about me isn't inherently wrong.
OMG Journalling!
This was amazing.
I find this wonderful….internalising my life in social situations I used to mask constantly but seemed to always get lost by what was ever going on past tense…I then got diagnosed five years ago with autism…..it was a great affirming moment..I started to unmask and I do what makes me comfortable and don’t people please, however I do feel constantly drained by people and most disappointing by human interaction, I can’t deal with personal relationships know in my 40s but love the quiet of been in my own space alone
I'm glad they included the AuDHD person because her energy and experiences ring the most in my own bell. She is so real for that.
Especially the part where she talks about trying to control their reactions with my behavior.
I've just found this channel, and I want to thank the host and all panelists for sharing their stories. All of them echo my own experience; unfortunately I sought a diagnosis in 2019 and was basically told I'm not negatively impacted enough to be ASD on paper. My work and personal life are so difficult because people think the mask is really me -- thank God I have theater work to channel who I truly am.
Do you act in your theater work and if you do. Do you find it ironic that pretending to be other people makes you feel more like yourself?
I have my assesment in May. I have struggled all my life with functioning and coping in my life, and I have had a few diagnoses that were disputed and ultimately didn't stick. The more I learn about autism, the more I think that I was misdiagnosed entirely all along. The extreme sensitivity I have to tactile things, people's facial expressions and tone of voice, and also how I have had consistent meltdowns during moments of unexpected changes- it all adds up. I'm thankful for these examples of women, normal and wonderdul women, who are also dealing with this. I sometimes feel so alone, but I think I'm finally finding out that I'm not.
My daughter approached me about autism, and initially my reaction is "but that's all normal" - without realising that it was normal to me, because I have the same traits and so did both my parents. I couldn't understand my meltdowns, super sensentive to people, sounds, colours, temperature, noise. I found it astonishing in meetings, when data was presented and there were errors and statistical anomalies, that no one else could see it. I thought it was normal to read a novel in a day, o r knit 7 jumpers in a row. Normal for me was copying the behaviour of others to fit in, to feel proud of myself for going to a social occasion and "getting through it". I always put it down to a high IQ, and being an only child.
It was when my daughter (22) started her path to diagnosis that I realised none of this was how most people experienced the world.
Unmasking in my case is more about giving myself permission and forgiveness for being different, as I used to get angry with myself for not being able to be like the rest of the people around me or being "unsocial". I don't think it is something I will announce at work. My skills are advantageous in my job, apart from the social stuff. I get accused of "attitude" by one person, because of my facial expressions (when I am trying to solve a complex problem for her), or being "standoffish" with people I don't feel safe with (if I don't trust someone I actively avoid them - apart from professional courtesy).
I related SO strongly with Angie and her experience. I discovered I had Asperger's at least 3 years ago, but I have had this masking down since I was very young.. Like 5 or 6 years old young. I also am a twin so I think that has had a real impact in driving this heavy masking. To the point that I have a hard time recognizing that I am actually masking.I often am not certain what part of me is real and what part is a result of masking. My husband has Asperger's as well so he really knows me and understands. He and my 3 children are the only people I feel really myself around; without a need to mask. I try to use the me that is at home as a sort of reference in the presence of other people (anyone outside my immediate family) I feel uncomfortable or anxious around, so that I can better judge whether or not I'm masking.
This! Me and my twin checked each other to better mask, I just got diagnosed at 22 it's been a year and the untangling has been exhausting in itself and confusing , because of this early and extra start ...
If you do a male version I would love to be involved. I am a 40 year old who was diagnosed at 39. It's been a huge game changer now that I understand why I am who I am.
I’m a woman but I think it would be great to hear from late-diagnosed men.
I would be also interested to hear late diagnosed men, old n young.
Your making is more taking away than adding.
Oh goodness, I'm glad I was sitting down for that one. That one hit me hard. That's what I've been doing and now I understand a little bit more of where I lost myself. That was really helpful.
Loveeee this video. I resonate with the pretending to do alot of "womanly" things even though I'm screaming inside my head to hurrryyy this up and let me go home.
Haha same! It's just awful.
Liz, my mother is also self diagnosed, she encouraged me to get my diagnosis since in the US she had difficulty with her primary care giver willing to diagnose her at 73 years of age. I am the daughter that she sees herself in more than my sister, with coping, dealing with others socially, the sensitivity, hyperlexic, etc. She is 82 now. I got my diagnosis at 50 years of age in Denmark, and it was a struggle of a lot of different hoops to jump through of 5 year process. She was 79 when I got the diagnosis. My brother who died at 53, was never diagnosed officially until he was injured in a terrible hit and run, when he was 48 years of age.
When you know it, you know it. That puzzle piece symbol makes sense, it's a lifetime of relief from pain, just knowing "why".
Oh. my. gosh. Masking where you pretend your true self is a performance, masking where you focus on negative role models and erase rather than add..... I haven't heard anyone else talk about these forms but something in them really clicked for me. That's me, that's what I do. Thank you so so much for sharing your experiences, I'm only part-way through but I just had to stop and say !!
I find it funny (strange) that I’ve always clammed up around anyone who was the slightest bit different or strange when I myself am so incredibly different and strange. But I think I’ve just had a revelation. I’m realizing just at this moment the reason unusual people make me so uneasy is that they don’t fit the prescribed social norms I’ve worked so hard to learn. Interacting with them around “normal” people might unmask me because they may say or do something unexpected and I won’t know how to react. So I avoid the interaction altogether.
I’m a fellow Aussie autistic diagnosed at 38. My daughter is also diagnosed (7) and I feel so much more at peace with myself, letting my mask go, communicating in meeps and moops and we all understand! I wish I was understood as a child, I masked so freakin hard every day, living with extreme fatigue, severe depression, near constant burnout and suicidal tendencies, even my own mother still doesn’t believe me.
But I will change that for my kids. They will be free to express their true selves and I am so happy for that.
Centring yourself into the discussion and that the quality time and just being there with no need for talk.
I so resonate with all of this discussion.
I self-diagnosed about 6 weeks ago and I'm trying to accept that diagnosis and to reduce this imposter syndrome (does that ever really go??) but this discussion has really, really helped me to better understand, accept and acknowledge me for me and to me.
Thank you so much.
This was very helpful. I am recently diagnosed and have very little insight into when I am masking vs when I am being authentic. This conversation gave me a lot to think about. Thanks so much to all of you for being so genuine and honest.
Absolutely great video! Thank you to everyone for openly sharing their reflections and experiences, it’s deeply appreciated!
I also really appreciate the gentle call in from Shannon on the “positives” of masking for women that includes being airheaded, childlike or otherwise, not taken seriously. That may be a benefit, a pass that feels affectionate if not enduring.
But much of our societal and health barriers comes from not being taken seriously, or not truly being aware/knowledgable enough to understand our bodies, our needs, our boundaries, etc. I may have gotten a enduring pass one day for appearing airheaded, but the next it’s justification for not having more responsibility over myself and my direction.
Listening to these ladies - so relatable! I think what was most relatable though was their obvious discomfort and anxiety over how to articulate their thoughts. Often times, they would kind of drift off topic and then circle back around. And the end of their speaking just kind of trails off with an awkward laugh. That’s my whole life…
That's perceptive
This has me in legit tears. I was misdiagnosed as bipolar at 15 and Zoloft almost took me out. I kept telling them I wasn’t bipolar. After having a double major in nursing and psychology that I didn’t complete due to illness. I thought, maybe it’s BPD. Then, I was like no! Thats not it. Maybe it’s ADHD/OCD/CPTSD… Now. I’m in awe.
I relate so much!
Congrats on finding out and starting your healing journey
@@theasianwitch Thank you! I’m in therapy now and seeing about an official diagnosis. Self diagnosis seems to be safest and then going to someone that specializes in it. It is so hard for POC. I’m thankful for a therapist that looks like me now.
@sadiqibrahim6322 I’m on an herbal regimen and looking to fix my gut. If I fix my gut, I can fix my brain.
I'm struggling with close personal relationships in which I was high masking because they now believe that I was lying. That's a big issue.
This helped me so much as I've been feeling isolated in my recent and ongoing self realizations. Thank you to all, with sincerity.
Hi Paul, could you do a video on conflict resolution? I don't think you have touched on it before and I think it would be really helpful especially as conflict can be especially difficult with some aspects of autism like focusing on details over the bigger picture/black and white thinking/overload etc
I’m so on the autism spectrum at 50!! I have already gone through the stages of grief for my first 50 years. ❤ But getting officially tested is becoming a struggle 🤷🏼♀️…. I relate to all these women and I appreciate all of them taking time & speaking freely ❤
Thank you so much for focusing on this topic! I think the Autism conference this year is also focusing on women and autism, so I hope women with autism get more recognition medically.
Again, thank you all so much for sharing your story and being vulnerable in this space. I relate to so many of the experiences I heard. I know it's not easy to share all of those personal thoughts but you are greatly appreciated for doing so.
I was just diagnosed at 52! I've been a firefighter for 30 years. Business owner too.
This is crazy!
Paul, thank you for putting this together. Thank you to your guests that have been so open and honest. I watch this video often. It gives me hope. I know I’m not alone. I believe that these people,along with yourself are giving us a voice. ❤❤❤
I needed this so very much. I am 61. I have been showing the overwhelming signs of autism since about age 3, even had insightful teachers speak to my inability to properly read social cues, but have been living undiagnosed my entire life. I self diagnosed years ago, but I finally decided to take things in hand and try to get a proper medical diagnosis. I am in the process of attempting to do this now, but really need an advocate because doing this on my own has proven highly overwhelming. I have lost jobs and opportunities and relationships due to my inability to properly regulate. It had just become too much. My son is autistic as well and we live together so it’s very challenging at times to get anything done. We’re managing, but it’s been difficult as I just lost another job over this.