the infantilised spectacle of autistic representation
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.พ. 2024
- Sherlock, Sheldon, and Dr Shaun "I am a Surgeon" Murphy - surely autistic represenation can do better than this? Let's deep dive into the tropes and stereotypes to find the truth beneath... Download Love & Pies here: pixly.go2cloud.org/SH4D5 - Thanks to Love & Pies for sponsoring!
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Additional research and scriptwriting by Nicky Watkinson nickyjwatkinson.co.uk/
Full script with linked sources: docs.google.com/document/d/1P...
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Leave any recommendations of autistic rep in the comments!
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Matilda, Drea and Nicholas from "Everything's Gonna be Okay." I love that all three actors are Autistic in real life, and Drea's actress even used her real life service dog.
This is not confirmed representation but it's very popular to read Stede Bonnet fron OFMD as autistic. I joke that Ed is my ADHD traits and Stede is my autistic traits 😅
My favourite representation is definitely Drea, seeing another autistic asexual lesbian, who I related to was definitely important to me! Also I love all your videos Rowan and I’m so happy you covered this topic!
Norma Khan Deadendia comics/Dead End Paranormarl Park Netflix series (creator Hamish Steele is also autistic)
Abed in Community was definitely missed in the video
In hollywood, ASD = Insufferable genius and ADHD = Manic Pixie Dream Girl
Guess im both
I always hear it as Manic Pixie Dream Girl is literally just an unintentional autistic girl.
@@aubreyplazafan samezees. Which is lame because they cancel each other out in the worst ways. How you gonna be a loner with rejection sensitivity, bro? Can you cancel out the unhelpful stuff, ffs!?
Me, AuDHD, in hollywood = an insufferable manic pixie genius
@@lajourdanne basically Ed from Cowboy Bebop 😂
I think sometimes people accidentally write reasonably accurate representations of autism is because they do know autistic people but don't know they're autistic. So they might base a character on a person or type of person they know and accurately represent them, and then thta person or people just happen to be autistic
In my own stories I inadvertently wrote a lot of autistic coded characters, both because everyone in my friends group is autistic, and I turned out to be as well. I was undiagnosed at the time, but it's obvious in retrospect like so many other things.
A good example is Abed from community! Abed was written with no intention for him to be autistic but was based on Dan Harmon (the writter) and a friend of his. Fans started pointing out Abed's autistic traits and that's how Dan Harmon found out he's autistic! The difference between characters like Abed and characters that are specifically written as "the autistic one" is so severe
I feel like I see it a lot in anime too. I think having a special interest in anime/manga/drawing and not much of a social life really helps people get in that industry so there might be a lot of (undiagnosed) autistic writers as well as writers who are around a lot of autistic animators etc.
@@martianpudding9522 luffy in one piece and even other characters on the crew is one of the best example of this. i don"t think oda is neurotypical and luffy is absolutely autistic coded and i love that for him
The Always Sunny gang seem to fit this "accidental" situation too. There's so much autistic coding and there's whole fan compilations of moments! The show was created by the actors who are themselves the showrunners and head writers too, and they put so much of themselves and each other into their characters, especially Charlie, Mac and Dennis (for example Dennis and his misophonia), so it comes from their own experiences unintentionally.
In the past year, Rob McElhenney and Glenn Howerton (who play Mac and Dennis respectively) seem to have found out they have autism and ADHD. As for Charlie Day, he says everyone had been telling him for years that he's autistic and pointed out traits, so he thinks it's probably the case, but he avoided testing because he was tested as a school child in the 80s and they couldn't identify anything back then and wrote him off as lazy. (This was as of a few years ago before his friends got diagnosed.)
The fact that autistic people are not allowed to be shipped with other characters is THE most ableist thing i heard in a while
agreed
It gives "they are too infantile, we gotta protect these kids" bruh. Like no we are functional adults.
Also really stupid, considering she fucks on the show.
They're intimidated by how hot we are
People do it to real life autistic people too. My boyfriend and I have known eachother since we met in elementary school and hes only a year older than me and people have tried to convince me that hes grooming me just cause im autistic so in their minds "No one would actually fall in love with an autistic person!! So he must be grooming her and using her for sex!!" They think they are trying to "keep me safe" when in reality they just seem ableist cause they don't believe anyone can unconditionally love an autistic person. Just cause my bf helps me with things I struggle with does not mean hes manipulating me.
Way early on, in reference to the Good Doctor and the misgendering: my dad is neurodivergent, and he is also hyper HYPER logical. When I came out to him as nonbinary and then trans, he was confused, but then considered it for only a brief period before becoming outwardly supportive. In my eyes, his logic has always played a large part in guiding him toward the support of minorities and underrepresented folks.
@@joaocosta3374d'uh, it's more logical to love than to hate. ❤
Opposite for me. Im confused by Non-binary because it makes no logical sense for me. Transgenderism I get because of Gender Dysphoria, an actual biological explanation. Non-binary has no explanation other than social feelings which can change at any time.
Technicaly if youre a doctor you learn biology. Humans sex is a spectrum, its a scientific fact. So the guy from Good Doctor is just a big idiot...
@@DeChihauhaBeautifully said.
I’ve always been VERY aware of how gender is a social construct so in my brain it’s just like well why wouldn’t we try to reconstruct it in a way that at least lets these people be who they want to be?
I love that the writers and cast openly acknowledge that Abed is Autistic, rather than making it vague, like Sheldon's portrayal. Abed is a fully rounded, realised character as a result, and Dan Harmon even found out that he himself was Autistic when researching Abed.
Abed is also one of the most likable characters in Community imo. He’s often the hero.
Hey I've been meaning to ask someone. Why do so many people have the Addams Family musical poster as their profile picture on youtube?
he actually found out after people started pointing out abed being ND, because he wrote Abed based on the mix of his friend and his own personality
@@eoincampbell1584 It's genuinely just this one person, @trinaq. if you're on the video essay side of youtube you're bound to see them everywhere lol
@@eoincampbell1584idk
Hot take, there are no neuro-typical characters in Bob's Burgers. Not a single one
Maybe Jimmy Pesto?
@@juliareck6650Nah, Jimmy is a solid closet bisexual
@@Rikigalsah yes bisexuality. My favorite neurocognitive disorder.
@@Rikigals I think you misunderstood the assignment... 🙂
is... is this a hot take? like, genuinely, is this NOT a well known idea?? i've only been watching it with my very neurodivergent family (mom has adhd traits out the roof, sister has adhd diagnosed and autistic traits, etc) and i just figured this was like... a common thing...
"It's possible to find two autistic people with diametrically opposed needs..." YES! I feel like not enough people acknowledge that.
i once said to someone i know "my stims are your triggers and your stims are my trigger" after that we had a much better understanding on how to interact
Another important reason why Sia's movie caused outrage is because there is a scene where her therapist uses a restraining hold that could block her airways. A parent of an autistic child wrote an open letter to Sia to ask if she could remove the scene (it sounds like Sia did not). When autistics and parents of autistics agree on something, you know it's messed up
My ex believed in that methode, it made me so furious that I became violent and dangerous and ended up being hurt and hurting others everytime. All of that because people assume Im out of controle when I actively try to regulate by myself
@@draalttom844 i hate it when people touch me in general when im overwhelmed, that hold sounds like a total nightmare
@@xofyck5232 it sure is! The worst you can feel in that state, id rather a punch!
Sia is a mess of a person. VOX LUX was also a deeply offensive movie to me and I still haven't been able to articulate why.
"You can hold eye contact, you are not autistic."
The no 1 criteria for not being checked out for autism in Denmark.
Wouldn’t be surprising if they don’t believe women can be in the spectrum with such parameters.
That's like saying you're not allergic to shrimp if you're able to eat it. Sure you can, but you will suffer after doing so. Same with eye contact. I can force myself to do it, but I likely won't hear a darn thing that's said, and I'll be very stressed while doing so.
As if many neurodivergent people didn't get shit on for not holding eye contact and just had to learn it so people would stop yelling about it 💀
my psychiatrist doubted my autism diagnosis because i smiled at her and could hold a conversation. she said "inspite your 'autism' (yes, she used air quotes), i think you're very social." she 100% said it like it was a compliment. it was jarring.
what if I had to learn to look people in the eyes? I don't mind doing it, but it doesn't come naturally to me.
What frustrates me the most about Sia's choice to cast Maddy in Music because "it would be cruel" to cast someone actually at the character's needs level is that the film is full of scenes meant to be in Music's head that are so incredibly unfriendly to the autistic experience and make absolutely no sense for the character. Like Maysoon Zayid said in her TED Talk when talking about how she didn't get the roll of a cerebral palsy character in the high school play because the drama teacher didn't think she'd be physically able to perform the role said: If I can't do it, neither can the character.
The thing is, even as a low support autistic person I found the scenes Sia set up in "Music" extremely overwhelming and almost meltdown inducing. The problem is not with the disabled actors themselves, the problem is that she made these sets completely inaccessible to said actors. Sia didn't see the inaccessibility of the sets as a problem, she saw the disabled actor who was a victim OF the inaccessibility as a problem.
@@whimsiclaw Agreed, the set wasn't inclusive to disabled actors and so much of what the main character doesn't fit the autistic experience at all. I've only seen clips in reaction videos, but even what I have seen as someone who made it past 30 before identification, it's a lot.
If you look at how obsessed Sia is with Maddie, the whole movie was clearly written for Maddie from the start.
@@schwarzerritter5724 Definitely. She wanted to write a niche story that would get attention so that she could show off a song & dance collection for her and Maddie. That's all it was.
And let's not forget the "blackfishing" backlash they got for showing Maddie in the dark orange tan with the blue braided hair texture ear muffs.
The irony is that Sia has been diagnosed as autistic, years after the movie and we (the autistic community) don’t want anything to do with her
As an autistic person. I've noticed that the most accurate representations of autistic characters tend to be characters that are not introduced as autistic, but rather weird and quirky. Hollywood seems to think that autism is a specific and special brand of weird with a check list of symptoms. And forget that, most quirky and weird people they know of, probably where autistic.
This is generally how character writing works. If you write a character as a thing, they'll fail to be that thing. If you write a character as a character, they will be that character, with all that entails.
@@dontmisunderstand6041 Another few good examples of this are the main character in The Living Dead who's name escapes me, he wasn't intended to be black, but his audition was so good they kept him in, a lot of the arguing with his leadership wasn't meant to be race related but it added an amazing dynamic to the movie. Another is Ripley in Alien, the writers didn't intend for her to he played by a woman but also ended up hiring Weaver and it made the character more dynamic and believable bc that bias wasn't put in mind
Top 3 comments I get when I come out as Autustic
1. "wow I would've never guessed you're so smart/highfunctioning/normal"
2. suddenly treats me like an idiot/child despite having already interacted with me normally the whole time without issues
3. "no you're not"
🙄🤦🏽
for me people are usually like "I already knew"
My favorite response was from my mother. "Well, I read all the information you sent me, but I have most of those characteristics too, so it's not autism it's just genetics." 😂
The popular portrayal of neurodivergent people is also extremely white, which leaves the rest of us really isolated.
Writers and producers treat white as the default because that’s the core viewership in the US. So if they are writing a story about bigotry based on mental health they leave the character default because they don’t believe viewers are smart enough to understand where racism ends and ableism begins. They also worry about writing about how mental health is viewed in different non-white demographics like Asians and black people. The under diagnosis of mental health issues in those areas is staggering due to the “you’re either normal or crazy” stigma. Parents often flat out refuse any kind of testing. Writers are afraid of being judged for being called out for ignoring things like that as much as they are for being called racist for including it. And remember, most writers, as in almost all, in TV and film are white non-autistics who got their job through connections and being willing to do whatever the producers want opposed to talent or integrity. It would be them writing about 4th hand accounts of people they can’t understand who grew up in a cultures they know nothing about. At least per all the screenwriters I’ve heard speak at comic conventions and writer gatherings.
Also they believe, or their executives believe, many average white viewers won’t watch shows about autistic characters and many more won’t watch shows about non-white characters, and per ratings they’re right. So combining the two guarantees much lower ratings and lower revenue. Few are willing to accept a job that pays half as much or less money for the same level of work and investment.
I’m not defending them by understanding and explaining them. I am pointing out this is a genre with very little competition and big demand in certain circles if you are interested in writing novels or screenwriting. And places like TH-cam with attached Patreon would be a great place to make money off stories like this that big media won’t touch.
And male
@@AngryPug76 These are all great points. I find it surprising how little media actually wants to cover intersectionality when it's such an important thing to understand
@@DeadAugur I don’t. It’s because most those in power are bigots against multiple groups of people and the rest are happy to appease bigots if it gets them money even if they are in the groups hated by their bosses.
I had this conversation with a younger black man. Eye opening, truly. Even further derision for things we just cannot help. Life is absurd.
Rudolf is a great unintentional autism metaphor. You are excluded and hated for being different, until what makes you different is of use to us NOW you can join in.
I really don't think that was unintentional. It's a thing a lot of people can identify with and Rudolph was written to represent all these people.
I have always identified with Rudolph a lot. You nailed it!
I don't think that is autism specifically. There are several groups that get treated in this manner. Anything that isn't mainstream which is beer, Hollywood, trash TV and sports is often considered unimportant.
Yet often people who are too flamboyant, eccentric, queer, corky, different, often have talents and gifts that give back to society that we only realize later.
This type of othering happens to several groups. Rudolph, is best freinds with a elf that wants to be a dentist.
This doesn't indicate anything different about the elf. They simply didn't want a job that thier family did for Years.
So I don't think Rudolph is specifically one type of group but the concept of people being othered for not confirming to society, or things they can't change like disfigurement, handicaps, mental differences.
The snitches goes over a similar idea. In the end the star and none stars are mixed up. The star is a difference that one side is using to look.bettwr than the other. Yet, in the end they realize it doesn't matter. If someone has a star or doesn't is not a sign of better or worse.
Everyone matters in some way a focusing on the difference as bad vs realizing how we are the same is the problem. Everyone has differences but everyone matters.
Different doesn't mean bad or better. Different sometimes just means different and we should realize everyone are at the end of the day just people.
@@Kurushimi1729yeah, but the point is that the allegory works too well. The intended read of "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Raindeer" is that people will eventually learn to accept you, quirks and all, but the actual implication of the text is that deviation from the norm will be punished unless it is exploitable.
The other reindeer didn't come around because they felt bad about making Rudolph cry, or because they realized having a red nose doesn't make him any less of a reindeer than the others. They came around because it happened to be useful on that foggy night
@@TheBluestflamingos I always thought the first point of Rudolph was that someone that seems weird at first can actually turn out to be useful. I guess you could call it "exploitation" if you want and I can see that it kinda sucks that it suggests acceptance happens only if you're useful.
But still, autistic people, among other people, does seem to fit the framework of the intended message.
I'm Autistic and had to call an emergency service number for severe dental pain. The lady on the phone asked me to rate my pain from 1 to 10. In my desire to be accurate, I was struggling. When I told her that I'm struggling with that because I'm Autistic, she said, "Well, stop being Autistic for a moment to answer my question."
So I told her it was 8, and thanked her for curing Autism in 30 seconds. Her Nobel Prize is in the mail.
It was an insensitive thing to say on her part.
Well I'm autistic too and you know what? Sometimes you just gotta reign that shit in.
I really resonated with the "I am a surgeon" scene. Silly as it may be, it reminded me of the grip acceptance has on you when you've constantly been turned away as an autistic person, so I don't think the reaction is unrealistic or bad. It made me cry honestly with how much I resonated with the feelings and circumstances that brought the meltdown on.
I also felt seen during this. I'm highly intelligent but highly autistic. Unfortunately, some people do think that means you are we're not capable of things (even when we may just need some accommodations). For me the only thing missing from this seen was the physical signs of rocking/fidgeting in place or flailing body parts. But - it appears in everyone differently so others may see it as perfect representation. At the end of the day - the goal is to give props where genuine attempts with thought for representations were made and to call out when it's blatantly off.
yeah sad how the internet reacted to it though, especially with nts making fun of it
yeah i agree. i know the scene looks dramatic and over the top through an allistic lense but that's how autistic emotions look a lot of the time. it doesnt mean its not real or that we shouldnt be taken seriously about it.
i hadnt seen anything relating to the show or that scene before watching this video. i am autistic, and at first the way the actor performed the emotional meltdown felt disingenuous, but seeing these comments makes me wonder if the full scene might feel less jarring. it's interesting!
I'm a bit embarrassed now, cuz I was one of the people who poked fun at that scene. It was wrong of me to do that.
It's a shame that I can't bring myself to watch Love on the Spectrum. I have nothing against the show itself (since I haven't seen it), but every time I've seen clips the comments from clearly neurotypical people gushing over the "simplicity" of autistic love and saying shit like "autistic people must experience the world in such a pure, wholesome way compared to everyone else" made me deeply uncomfortable and annoyed.
Every single person seems to be very high needs, and it seems like that's all they think autistic people can be
Don't let that stop you. Just watch 10 minutes of an episode, see what you think and then you'll know whether you like it or not.
I totally understand a toxic audience making a fandom object less fun. Maybe you can find a different subset audience. I’ve seen creators review or talk about the show, and seen a low percentage of that kind of response in the comments. So I know people who really like it but also aren’t creeps about it exist. Although skipping things where the audience is icky is something I do, so I support it.
It is worth watching a few episodes. It may not be for you, but it is nice to see a show where not every story is a success (some are). You can really empathize when watching people deal with a difficult and very human part of life.
Lmao. I am the most cynical guy on the planet, are they just equating every condition they see to how they think of people with Down's Syndrome? Because they are also called "beauitful pure angels" even as adults all the time.
The big bang isb't a show about nerds, it's a show making fun of nerds, and tbh I hate it.
Yea that and it also implies that being a nerd means you're a (likely) white male who's at least slightly misogynistic and fails to really account for other kinds of nerds or that you don't have to be misogynistic to be a nerd. It also does the "we see Asians as more sexually submissive so we're going to de-sex our Asian man thing" which is just racist. More bad stuff too.
As a kid the show always gave me the ick because the girls wearnt all that nerdy and I specifically got very upset at the idea girls don't like star trek meanwhile that's my special interest so child me vehemently refused to watch the show
I think you've just hit the nail on the head as to why I never liked watching it. I've never understood why others found it so funny, whilst I only eyeroll from start to finish. Science lends itself to so many witty jokes and puns, but TBBT really is about "look what idiots these nerds are."
Thank you, I never found the show funny, but rather just plain cringey. I have to admit that I absolutely loathe the character of Sheldon Cooper and actually think that all of the characters were pretty nasty and rude to one another. One of the reasons I dislike the character of Sheldon is because people also pin him as an asexual character which is incredibly hurtful and harmful- Rowan has a whole video about this. It furthers the harmful stereotypes that all asexual people are self-obsessed, occasionally sociopathic, infantilized, man-children or women-children that are to be made fun of. As a biromantic asexual women with ADHD, it hurts so much when characters like this are played for laughs and seen as the brunt of the joke.
I remember in the first two years of the show I felt like it was about people like me expressing their frustrations with the mainstream world and trying to fit into it's weird rulesets.
After that it started to feel oppressive and eventually I ended up hating it, especially Sheldon's treatment of Amy.
It became "laugh at the weirdos" instead of "laugh at the allistics." It went from punching up, to punching down.
Clearly the latter was more popular.
fun story, when i was in 5th grade i really struggled to see the whiteboard, i said nothing because i assumed that’s just how everyone else sees, was absolutely mind blown when i finally got glasses and realized oh, this is how it’s supposed to be.
cut to present day, im 22, was recently diagnosed with autism
same concept
am consistently blown away daily about how many masks i wear, because i simply believed that’s how everyone else was
Same! For me: 3rd grade, gym poster, and asd dx at 35, but otherwise exactly the same ^_^
Also same, but for me it was in 1st grade with my glasses and 21 about my autism
Had a similar experience with glasses, but also, weirdly, about being anosmic (unable to smell from birth). Genuinely didn't realise that when people said they could smell things that it was a sensing of the air particles. Obviously I cannot ever physically understand what smell is, but because of this, I didn't realise everyone else had a different experience and that, consequently, mine was abnormal.
Just goes to show that you can't necessarily tell that your experience is different to other people's, so you don't know you might need additional help
My 10 year old cousin who is into k pop and watched the Attorney Woo series recently said out of the blue during family dinner "Damn how I wish I had autistic intelligence"... Everyone at the table looked at her extremely confused and even more so when she then proceeded to turn to me and ask me to explain to them what she was talking about since I'm apparently the "know it all" of the family... only to keep correcting me and making it sound like autism was actually a superpower of some kind!... Now, she doesn't know that I am actually autistic myself, but her parents and most other adults there did and they were mortified and super lost by the whole ordeal. For sure one of the weirdest things that has happened to me in relation to autistic representation in the media and its impact.
Great example of why proper representation is needed for groups that differ from societies 'norm'
Children often don't truly comprehend around them.
Good thing you had a conversation with her and tried to explained your difficulties to her?
"don't claim to be autistic, autistic people can't travel by themselves" is so baffling it's incredible. It shows not only a narrow understanding of what autism is, but a complete lack of wanting to learn more about it.
The thing is will autism it hard to know what it is even poeple with it can not fully understand can to self but for over can not .
i actually never do travel by myself, but not because i cant. i just dont like to go anywhere unless i have to lol
@@commentor2013same. The only place I travel to by myself is school and work which is the same place.
I couldn't for most of my life, but last year I just did and managed fine, just had to plan it out really well.
@@robokill387 thinking about it, i would probably get bad anxiety. i dont like being away from my family too long. i worry about them. ironically i also like being by myself, just with people around in other rooms. indirectly close lol
I really appreciate the inclusion of Julia, an Autistic muppet on "Sesame Street", as it normalises the condition for a younger audience. Julia's puppeteer has a son who's on the spectrum, which helps with her portrayal of the character.
Shame about Autism Speaks on Sesame Street.
@@thecinematicmindwas about to say the same thing
Why is everyone ignoring that Bert is OBVIOUSLY autistic. And Ernie is probably ADHD.
Thank you for adding this! I'm a 23 years old autistic man and Julia is one of my special interests, like my cats. I even have a puppet of her that I really cherish and watching her episodes always calms me down. I've been dreaming of owning a merchandise hoodie and will buy one once I get a spot in the payed disabled work training. ❤
However, it is highly unsettling that the producers of Sesame Street have decided to collaborate with Autism Speaks.
Yes, but her and Bert need a conversation that ends with Earnie realizing Bert has been undiagnosed autistic the whole time “Sounds like she’s talking about you there, Bert.”. Because he is definitely autistic too. Be a good late in life diagnosis explanation for kids who know adult autistics.
I like that Attorney Woo Young had an episode where they have another character whose autism displays differently than hers. She had to confront that difference and how, though she does struggle, she still has some privileges and social support because of how hers is displayed.
I know people have problems with the rep in the show, but for me it was really comforting seeing someone with an exaggerated version of my traits managing to find a support structure within her work and outside of it. Such basic things feel so unreachable when you’re neurodivergent and it’s nice to see representation where, while difficult to obtain, it IS obtainable.
@@rubyy.7374 Yes, that was the thing I liked about the show, too. For all its issues, at least they did show how she was liked and supported and even respected in her workplace.
22:03 that's actually not true. Grunya Sukhareva, a Jewish Soviet child psychiatrist was the first person to identify ASD in children, and she did that nearly 20 years before both Kanner & Asperger. there's even evidence Asperger plagiarized her work (and the fact he did that to justify the deaths of nearly 800 autistic children makes it especially disgusting)
Yes, I was just about to comment the same thing!
She published her first findings on autism (at the time using a different term for it) in 1925! (in russian)
One of the many reasons her work seems to be overlooked by so many (apart from her being a jewish woman) might be, that it was translated to german in 1926, but only translated to english long after Asperger had plagerized her work. (1996)
Not only was she the first to describe the autistic spectrum, her patients were described as kids with talents AND disabilities.
She also described autism in both girls and boys. (6 boys and 5 girls in total)
@@leoniea.5620 very important addition!! also important to mention, unlike Asperger, her research was purely scientific, instead of ideological. She also (accurately!) mentioned that many problems in children are caused by unsupportive & cruel environment, instead of the eugenic belief that some people are "wrong" or "evil" at birth. Truly a wonderful person, too often forgotten in history
Well, this surprises me not at all. A Jewish woman was erased from history after doing the actual work of discovering us. By the Nazis.
Figures.
I think the narrowness in which we understand autism (white, middle-class, boys) even leaves out some white middle-class boys. What if that boy's autism shows itself in ways that you might expect from a girl? Does the doctor just miss that he has autism? I state this to point out how I think the previous conceptions of what autism looks like are even narrower than people think. I also think we need a drastically different approach to how we view disability and ability. If someone has a certain noise sensitivity (for example), they shouldn't need to explain why they have that sensitivity, they should be able to do what they need to deal with it.
I have what is understood commonly as a girls autism and is constantly invalidated by the gender biases.
My dad is a white middle-class man who i highly suspect got missed because he would present a more "feminized" version of autism. I have autism and I got diagnosed in my early 30s. And I've talked to him about this, and been like there's a large genetic component to this. And he knows that I suspect my grandma (his mom) was autistic. And my mom will pick up on me saying there's a genetic component, and be like oh so do you think I have autism? And I'm like nope. And my dad has never asked, but has social anxiety, diagnosed ocd, he burns out at various times, he has the most specialized of interests that he can talk about for days. His small talk game is absolutely non-existent. He has a lot of food sensitivities, and he's ate an omlette for dinner on a specific weekday for over 20 years. But he's just living his life. And I'm just sitting here going .... it's not my mother.
I agree. The idea of gendering autism seems absurd to me.
I wasn’t diagnosed until my 30’s and I wasn’t picked up because I could mask.
The current notion of feminised autism is due to the medical field’s, especially its most prominent members, refusal to admit they got things wrong.
We started off with autism as a white male child syndrome caused by mothers who didn’t she then enough love (refrigerator moms). Then it was just a white male child syndrome. When women started getting diagnosed, Simon Cohen came up with/popularised the idea of women with a “male brain”. When more women started getting diagnosed later and masking was identified, masking became a female trait because it wasn’t doctors’ fault women were bring missed, it’s because they had special autism that was harder to diagnose than men.
No, Simon Baron-Cohen came up with the "extreme male brain" theory decades ago, before women started getting diagnosed in large numbers, and it was specifically an attempt to explain why there were so few female autistics. Well, that and the stereotypes of autistic people being into STEM fields which a lot of researchers back then viewed as "male-brained". The idea of inherently gendered brains is an old idea that used to be popular in neuroscience in the 00s but was discredited in the 2010s.
Part of the reason a lot of autistic people identify as genderqueer is because of how socially constructed gender is. We tend to struggle with understanding and applying social norms, and this often applies to our gender as well. Many of us have a rich and nuanced understanding of our identity, including our gender identity, which we might not feel is adequately represented by the labels of cisgender boy or girl. Many autistic people identify as queer or transgender, but more specifically, many autistic people identify as not a part of the gender binary.
haha I'm working and writing a story
I dont agree with the phrase "struggle to understand gender norms". We often understand them very well, better than neurotypicals and cis people.
The correct way to say it would be we can more easily spot discrepancies related to (gender) norms. But that makes NTs the stupid ones and they dont like hearing that.
Yess! Completely accurate!
I am an Autistic genderqueer person. I've never seen someone connect genderqueer with the fact that we as autistics struggle with social norms and constructs- but that makes so so much perfect sense. Even as I chose to pursue medical transition in my gender, I've never been able to fully put my understanding of my gender fully into the binary options. Wow, this concept makes me feel so seen.
AuDHD enby here 🙋
Noticing no one has said him(at least from what I've read), I have to say my favorite 'autistic' character is in fact, Spencer Reid(from Criminal Minds). While his autism is never really announced in the show, he shows very clear signs and he's never infantilized. He's a VERY good agent and doctor and his autism is one of the things that makes him so good and oh my god. He was the first ever character in media where I was like 'Hey! I do that!' Especially with his fixations on certain dark subjects. I have hyperfixations on so many dark things and I've always been called a freak or told I'd end up being a murderer in the future. Reid showed me I wasn't alone in my 'creepy' fixations and they could possibly help me in certain works!
Funny enough, I actually decided to play through the Criminal Minds mobile game, and while I wouldn't really recommend it, I noticed an interesting detail that adds on to this.
There is a certain 'looking for clues' task that varies specifically from character to character, with some examples being 'match the icon to the object', or 'tap the flashing spots in screen'.
Reid's searching task involves having to find the onscreen spot through 'tunnel vision', blocking the entire screen outside of a tiny peripheral. Although it's not a direct indication of 'autism' by any means, this does happen to heavily resemble a semi-common symptom/trait among people on the spectrum, which adds a little more substance to the idea that Reid has Autism. Sure, it's not in the show itself, but it's still interesting that something like this shows up here in relation to Reid.
The one unsub who calls Reid 'autistic' in the first season was the only instance I heard of him being announced as autistic and, while it was used as an insult in a bout of anger, it definitely set me in the mindset of keeping an eye on Reid as the 'autistic savant' type. Have to say, CM is one of my favourite shows, and the way they treat Reid is absolutely a part of that. No one acts like he's overreacting or like he's less than, he's young for an agent but treated no less even for that. Incredible show with surprisingly good mental health rep, I love it
Early seasons Grissom in CSI as well, then it got popular and they "rescued the weirdo from himself" and made him blah
Lily Simpson actually did a really good analysis on the trans misgendering episode of the Good Doctor and it actually wasn't as bad as "his autism makes him unable to grasp the concept of transgenderism." It showed more that he learned all of his medical knowledge through extensive study in medical school and our medicals schools are severely lacking on information regarding transgenderism. He didn't know what was going on because his education had failed him.
That is a good interpretation, and could technically clear the characters name, but if the show didn’t accurately portray/explain that medical teachings failed him, then it’s still in the wrong. If the larger public takes the scene as autism = not believing in trans people or something like that then the message wasn’t communicated well enough, and the harm remains.
What's actually so frustrating about Benedict Cumberbatch's whole thing about playing Frankenstein's monster as autistic is that a portrayal like that COULD be good if it weren't so essentialist and ableist because a lot of autistic people DO experience being othered and their autism treated as this horrible obstacle (which of course Cumberbatch's quote betrays). And what's funny is that Shelley's book (and the 1930s movie) does present the idea that the Monster is only monstrous because he is perceived that way similar to how many of the difficulties of being autistic are there because society makes it that way. All of this said with the caveat that it would be best if an autistic actor took that approach rather than a non autistic actor playing autistic.
I know. I read the original Frankenstein for school, and as an autistic person I really resonated with Adam (that’s how Mary Shelley referred to the monster in letters to her friends) because I often felt like a misunderstood monster myself. It’s pretty sad that Benedict Cumberbatch’s portrayal of him as autistic was so close yet so far from what the original story was about.
Guillermo Del Toro does a really good job of using what people perceive as monsters to portray the feeling of otherness and he does it in really compassionate way.
Also, what Benedict said was way worse, in the complete statement he said ““I went to schools and met people, some of whom are very high functioning on the autistic spectrum. I met a 17-year-old who had the mental age of a one and a half year old. Everything was just about bodily functions. Smell. Sexual arousal. Shitting. Whatever. So when I hear people use diagnostic labels casually - Sherlock is autistic, Turing is autistic - it really upsets me.”” Which is why I don’t watch anything he’s one anymore
Frankenstein's monster is LITERALLY A WALKING CORPSE LOL 💀 I cannot believe that's their angle. that is absolutely horrible. the monster acts that way because he's made of dead parts ... so he can't think very well. if anything, he should be based on people with serious traumatic brain injuries instead of autism. it is obviously a metaphor for feeling "other" but coming out and saying that subtext ruins the point. it's relatable, it doesn't have to be a direct explanation
@@bibivallejo Welp, guess that's another actor on my avoid list. -sigh-
My friend once called Sherlock’s mind palace ‘floating png autism powers’ and I just think that is so true because every time I think about things pngs start flying around my head (joke)
Yeah its actually jpegs
Imagine not thinking in .webp files
For me it's mostly .gif files. Just playin' on repeat.
@@vigilantcosmicpenguin8721Honestly, that's my brain on weed. I guess Asperger's + Weed = Sherlock mind palace
lmao i keep forgetting that allistics cant see the uid. losers. related but uh hey guys mine's been flashing red for a while now do y'all know how to turn that off?
Years ago, I tried to write an autistic character and couldn't figure out how to stop making her seem so cartoonish. Later figured out it was because I am autistic, had accidentally been making every single one of my characters also autistic, and had just imposed extra "quirks" onto her to try and accommodate. Point being, just because you're autistic doesn't mean you know what you're doing lol
After I got my ASD-1 diagnosis, I told my best friend about it. He said, "You can't be Autistic because every Autistic person has a 'little genius'. What is YOUR little genius?"
I don't know what this meant, and I can only guess that the expectation is that be Rain Man at something.
The misgendering is the strangest part. Those on the spectrum are very willing to hear one's own experience and stick to it. It's one of the many things i love about my husband's autism
I genuinely know more trans autistic people than cis autistic people… like…
@@jnewgotI think what they were getting at was that Autistic people are generally going to be more open to other people's identities, and thus less likely to cling to things like transphobic societal assumptions. I can say that I don't know a single openly autistic person that's transphobic in real life.
@@Emily-fm7pt"openly" I like that word addition.
Well, if you take that response to the logical extreme wouldn't it imply that the Left is mostly Autistic?
The next question then becomes, why are so many Trans folk Autistic?
@@jnewgot use your brain 🤡
As an autistic person, it's very clear that the best person to know about one's self is literally one's self, not me, not anyone else
Gender and identity are all very personal things, it literally doesn't make sense to assign it for other people
I'm so annoyed with the misconceptions we face. "Not able to travel alone"... buddy, I'm studying abroad in a foreign country, have spent a week in a 1person tent speaking a second language and volunteering and another week backpacking along the Irish coast. Did I face difficulties because of my autism? Sure, lots. Did this make the journeys impossible? No. *whirrs angrily*
My first thought (having done some camping myself) was "pfff, one person tent is easy! Having someone else's feet in your face is what makes it really rough!". 😂
I guess it really depends where you are on the spectrum or the impact your diagnosis has on your autonomy. My son loves nature but probably wouldn't be able to go camping or travel alone.
@@gwestmalle4950 I mean yeah, part of the point is that a lot of these "representations" are made by people with extremely narrow views of what being autistic entails (or anything else, really - as someone diagnosed with schizophrenia, I can say that certainly applies to mental illness as well); where they don't take into account the idea that neat little checklists of "symptoms" can't really ever be some Universal Truth™ Guide to describing a person or their specific relation to autism.
It's nice that compared to, say, the Middle-Ages, society has evolved to the point where it can sort of describe and try to help autistic people with what they need, but quite a few uninformed people, often with the best of intentions, make the fundamental mistake of putting real humans, and their real specificities, into mere categorized boxes with various restrictive labels on them, and thus fail to both grasp the complexities of something like autism, as well as portray the people they say they want to represent.
travelling can be extremely overwhelming for me but it is possible and i do it fairly often (it take 5 hours by train to visit my parents and ive done it three times this year). usually i just ask the staff for help if i need it. usually this takes multiple goes lmao. some autistic people can travel alone easier than me and some cant do it at all. i consider it less a misconception and more of an overgeneralization, but either way its still bad
As someone with ASD, I immediately understood what was going on in the "I am a surgeon" scene and could relate 100%.
He's already in a stressful environment, and now his boss is blaming him for something out of his control and actively PUNISHING him for something out of his control. All of this would lead to a break in his mental dam and his emotions would come flooding out. He's trained his life for this, he's passed the tests, he's done the work. He is a Surgeon. The reason he seems to chant "I am a Surgeon" is because this is the root of his emotional break down.
He's done the work, he's got the title, he IS a surgeon.
When I was in similar situations, I'd often repeat the last real coherent thought on repeat. Totally believable.
So imagine my surprise when Neurotypicals and those with "Self Diagnosed Autism" were clowning on what I considered to be a realistic depiction of an Autistic Meltdown.
The fact that it became a meme legitimately set us back a decade in general understanding in regards to Autism, and it actually impacted my ability to work as my colleagues shared the meme around. I had had a few meltdowns at work by this point, so now suddenly eyes were on me as they began to whisper whether or not I was faking my meltdowns.
I did try reaching out to popular content creators to try and at least get some bigger voices out there to spread the word, but none of them noticed me. A few even went on to clown on it as well.
I feel you so much and I'm sorry that your work environment is like that right now. I hope it gets better some time :(
I also felt actually represented by that scene and it's heartbreaking to learn how it was perceived. My meltdowns are something that I even have problems to discuss with my therapists and ASD self-help groups because people tend to act very shocked when I describe them. And I thought that scene could break the stigma around it.
In my work life I often feel like it's my actual job to not have meltdowns. Like I do everything I can to not have one in public which is a full-time job in of itself because I don't allow myself a lot of nice things (like seeing friends) out of fear of being too overwhelmed at some point and losing control
Wow, I'm not used to wandering outside of specifically autistic spaces and finding such sane, scholarly, humanistic understanding of autism. You had me scratching my head wondering if you are also autistic, because your understanding is so good. And what a brilliant breakdown of the problematics of advocacy and accommodation. The sad truth is, a lot of non-autistic people really can't "hear" autistic people. We need more non-autistic people to get to this level of understanding and speak out. I'm bookmarking this for sharing. Thank you for turning your mind to this topic.
I love how you mentioned us with ADHD listening while doing other tasks. That is basically the only way I "watch" TH-cam. I'll listen while caring for baby, doing chores, playing a video game. I intentionally watch folks who's content doesn't rely too heavily on visuals, if the content creator is neurodivergent and/or queer that is a huge plus. Your channel kinda checks all my boxes. Thank you for doing what you do.
I had to stop for a minute to laugh cause i was literally listening to this on 1.5x while also while formatting an e-book for future publishing. Literally called out lol. Can't be productive without max inputs
I almost always have some kind of video essay/podcast on when I’m at work or doing chores. It’s the only way I can get my laundry done lol
i just watch all videos at maximum speed 😭even if I don't have an official diagnosis
I do the exact same thing. I can’t do just one thing at once, with the possible exception of reading.
Likewise, I'm playing Sawayama solitaire (from Zachtronics Solitaire Collection/Last Call BBS) with this on my second monitor lol. I'd like to be doing chores because my room is a huge mess but I'm also attempting to recover from a migraine so physical exertion is off the table for now.
I appreciate you bringing up Entrapta. The audiance infantalisation of her was so frustrating, when the show runners wrote her so well. There is clearly romance between her and Hordak, and shebis a grown woman that is both extremely well versed in her special interest, technology, and also needing her tiny cute foods as all she will eat. Her robots help her with her needs so she can thrive and be her best. The show doesn't infantalize her and it really also puts into perspective how powerful an audience and their biases can color a character.
I am not Neurodivergent myself, but I actually felt the opposite. When I first discovered that the creator said she was 30, I felt that it made no sense. It felt like an excuse, as her dating Hordak was the cause of controversy. For the most of the show, based on how fellow characters behave around her, I thought she was around Adora's age or at best slightly older. She is supposed to be an adult, but the teenage characters rarely act like they are talking with someone older than them. Contrast how characters like Spinnerella and Netossa, characters that canonically are more similar to Entrapta's alleged age, and it feels different. To clarify, what I mean is not that because Entrapta is neuratipical, she is acting as a child, but at least as portrayed by the show, Entrapta characterization led me in the whole of the show to believe she was a teen agewise. None of the characterization or the way characters act around her, led me to believe she was written as an adult woman regardless of her status in the autism spectrum.
@@Diana-tl8pn so i am nuerodivergent, and i identified a LOT with entrapta. I am in my 30s and part of my masking has always been trying not to act cute, or "childish." I naturally do silly voices, move and dance, collect cute things, and it took me a loooong time to be okay with that. So, for me, she seems refreshing and validating to see a character like her.
I find it interesting, after watching a youtube video talking about how media infantalizes divergent people, you have done just that too. And mind you, i don't think it is your fault you have done this. Society tells us that we are supposed to be a certain way when we get older, so we use these standards as age indicators. Just, neurodivergent people don't always follow these norms, but it doesn't make us younger or childish. Just, different.
@@Diana-tl8pnI have autism and adhd and have collection of soft toys and love watching cartoons - I’m 28. I also do data analysis at my company and have taken soft toys into a meeting with a coworker when discussing a data project. I am very emotional and have meltdowns. i am what you would class as childish. In fact I am probably more childish than entrapta. She wasn’t infantilised at all.
@@CearoT I think the use is not Entrapta in herself. I don't find it that unusual that adults have "childish" hobbies or are "childish". I am that adult too. What I tried to explain and maybe it didn't come across is that, based on how the other characters act towards Entrapta, it doesn't come across as she is supposed to be an adult. That is why I mentioned Netossa and Spinnerella. With other canon adult characters, Adora and friends act like teens talking to an adult, but not with Entrapta. The only character that acts with some level to respect towards Entrapta, in the sense towards a superior, is Bow. And it is only because Entrapta is better in mechanics than Bow. No matter how "childish" an adult is, a teen wouldn't act how Adora and Co act towards Entrapta and it shows with the other cannon adult characters.
I've seen a lot of people who assume she is aromantic asexual and seem to view her as very sexless. Meanwhile, in the actual show there are moments where she acts about as horny as you can show in a kids' show, and the show's creator has stated that she's down for having boyfriends and girlfriends.
I'm autistic and South Korean, and I personally adore "Extraordinary Attorney Woo". I related a lot to Woo Young Woo, and the show has many well represented symptoms of autism such as her struggle with facial expressions, her stimming and how whales are her special interest. While there are a few aspects of the show I do think could come off as turning her autism into a superpower, I never felt that way about it; Young-Woo doesn't just magically calculate her cases, it's her different way of thinking that lets her see other sides of a situation, which aids her. But her seeing different perspectives isn't some magical genius attribute. As for her photographic memory, I believe you are referring to her memorization of South Korean Law. This, I also don't find to be a special genius moment. Woo Young Woo seems to also value law itself as something of a special interest, and that's why she memorized a whole law book. Delving so deeply into something you appreciate is something I, and many other autistics, can really relate to.
Young-Woo's autism may seem stereotypical to many, but I related to most of her behavior. I think it's very good representation. Her autism isn't considered a good or bad thing, and it interferes with her social life and how people perceive her. She overcomes lots of prejudice, but is also disheartened by it a lot. The show does a good job, to me, of tackling lots of issues that occur with an autistic main character. It explicitly points out that autism is a spectrum, and with an autistic client on a very different part of the spectrum, Young-Woo has to explain to others that her autism is not a universal experience. Young-Woo has to deal with being infantilized by others, and while in some cases she changes the persons mind, in others they simply continue to see her as lesser, and this discourages her. Her autism isn't treated like a joke, it's just a part of who she is, and while some characters in the show may mock her and look down on it, they're always treated like they're in the wrong. She's autistic, and she's just as capable as them, even if she has certain struggles that they don't.
Also, it's nice that she falls in love with an allistic man, and they have a loving relationship. He's way too perfect and boring I think, but that's how lots of South Korean Drama men are, so it's okay. People seem to think autism makes you not able to fall in love, but they do, and it goes well despite certain obstacles. I think that's very good.
The only real criticism I've seen of it so far, that I've thought is a decent point, is that the lead actress is not autistic. I totally see why this could be seen as bad. But the main actress initially turned down the role, not wanting to misrepresent anything or harm anybody, but the studio then delayed the show until she gave in. That's a very big deal, since the K-Drama industry is so fast paced and volatile. That was a very risky move, but the creators really felt that she would be able to do a good job, and I think she did do a good job. The lead actress has said that she never copied autistic people when acting, she just acted the way she felt was the more true to Young-Woo's character, so I don't think it's a problem. Young-Woo was not being mocked or stereotyped, and care was put in to make sure she wasn't. And, I think this might sound odd to American audiences, but finding an autistic actress to act in the show would have been very difficult, and I think that if a popular actress wasn't chosen, people would be really making a lot more of a mockery of the show. Korean reception is still somewhat unkind towards the show, because of how discriminatory Korea often is towards small groups of people. If they had managed to find an openly autistic actress, she might not be a good actor, or people would insult her heavily, or maybe she would be on such a different part of the spectrum, it wouldn't really be that different than if an allistic actress had been hired. But other than that, I think lots of criticism towards the show is unfair and not actually very considerate of autistic people's feelings.
I really like the show, it's my favorite drama. I can't find any major flaws with the representation, even when I try. There's lots and lots of good traits in it, instead. I would really recommend it, so I just hope people don't see the portion of the video devoted to "Extraordinary Attorney Woo" and instantly imagine it to be bad or misrepresenting. I hope this doesn't sound like a sponsorship, I just wanted people to know that most autistic viewers of the show do consider it good representation. So if you were ever considering watching it, I think it's a good idea.
That's all.
My personal favourite canonical autistic character is Christian Wolff from The Accountant. Strongly driven, flawed in interpersonal interactions, still looks out for the less fortunate, and NO AUTISTIC SUPERPOWER. He's smart but makes mistakes, and all skills were organically developed rather than picked up instantly.
It was this movie that clued me in to my own autism
That's not a character on anything. That's the German Bundespresident who left office in disgrace after all his fraud.
Leo Kanner and Hans Asperger didn't just happen to discover the same condition independently at the same time. Both of their work was based on the work of Georg Frankl and Anni Weiss. They worked at the Viennese autism clinic Asperger worked at, far before he did. Asperger was a newbie. Anni and Georg then fled to the US, because they were Jewish. Leo Kanner was actually the guy who helped them flee Austria. I guess he thought it'd be a fair deal to then take the credit for all of their knowledge on autism.
Source: Edith Sheffer's book 'Aspergers' Children', would recommend, but wow it is not for the feint of heart because that Asperger guy is an absolute villain.
Let's also not forget about Grunya Sukhareva.
@@valtariarc4931 Thank you. I was not aware of her, but reading up on this is really interesting :)
It is kind of strange to say someone 'discovered' or 'first described' autism, isn't it? We've always been around and we've always been like this, and I'm sure people throughout time have noticed and written about us, but their writings just usually haven't been preserved.
Given that aut!stic people tend to have excellent pattern recognition, and that we do inordinate amounts of research into and writing about things that especially interest us, and that we often develop a special interest in understanding why our brains work the way they do, I think it's very unlikely that there weren't loads of aut!stic people who've written about autism, but well, epistemic injustice is a thing. I'm sure those aut!stic people were considered too 'biased', or their brains too weird, to be taken seriously. Ew, 'me-search'.
Personally I despise both Kanner and Asperger, so any amount of credit taken away from them is good in my book. They're not 'the fathers of autism'. They were just privileged enough to be taken seriously and remembered, and arrogant enough to take the credit of decades of work and ascribe it all to themselves. I don't want my identity to be related to these b!goted f*ckwits in any way.
I'm censoring words that often get my comments auto-deleted. I know it's annoying.
@@ryn2844 why would youtube autodelete comments for containg the word "autistic"? That's kind of fucked up.
@@Idkpleasejustletmechangeit It sure is f*cked up. I guess it's used as a slur a lot.
Thanks for this info! I have just downloaded the book, very interesting topic that is barely ever discussed in mainstream media
I also find the Wednesday headcanon to be problematic and out here in the same category as Sheldon. It’s a glorification of the tropes instead of using them as the butt of a joke but it’s still tropey. Wednesday’s autistic traits are linked to her violence, her disdain for people and her superiority complex. They are also very much played as her choosing these traits and that she can stop anytime. The autistic traits are set dressing to make her look cool.
Thank you! Sometimes I feel like the only person to not like the Netflix version of Wednesday. I’m kind of sad as an autistic person that people headcanon her as autistic when she’s honestly a pretty insufferable person. Don’t get me wrong, insufferable people can be autistic too, but they’re not very helpful when it comes to creating positive representation.
There's plenty of different types of autistic people out there, and in my experience the Wednesday-style autistic woman is incredibly common. Most of the autistic women I know love her for being like them. It's the edgy autistic woman version of those autistic guys (me) who cringily like edgy, smart anime antiheroes. That character trope isn't the most flattering or realistic, but in my experience a lot of autistic people absolutely do develop a less intense version of that personality when they're young as a way to cope (and from emulating their favorite characters, like Wednesday). And likewise, most of those people I know did consciously choose to grow out of those Wednesday-y traits once they realized how negative they were.
i'm an autistic woman and i cannot stand wednesday adams and the recent portrayl of her. she just seems mean. and not a misunderstood mean or a funny mean like her character in the past. but just...mean. she reminds me more of the girls who'd bully me than myself as an autistic girl back in the day.
@@promisemochi I’m another autistic woman who really doesn’t like this recent portrayal, and sometimes I feel like “the only sane person” because of it. Ironically enough, I think Wednesday’s original character would despise this incarnation too. I liked the original character because as you mentioned, she had more of a hilariously blunt dark humor (which is an autistic trait I show sometimes) rather than just going out of her way to be purposely mean and I was pretty devastated to see what just felt like a pathetic bully that was pretending to be her.
This is such a bad take no, she didn't choose the way she is, it's negative influence on her life, that she feels like is the correct thing to do, and is actively told by basically every character that her limited degree of beliefs is actively harmful to her, she's not a detective because she's autistic, that's just who she is as a person
I was very lucky to find a therapist who specializes in autism in AFAB people. I wasn't diagnosed until I met her when I was 24
my fav representation of autism in tv is dirk from dirk gentlys holistic detective agency. its never confirmed, but his behaviours and traits directly line with how my autism is for me. i think it's a wonderful show and dirks character is so comforting to me, because of how accurate it is and the depth that his character has. he's such a well rounded and explored character, and his autistic behaviour is rather subtle (unless your me and its very obvious). i think it was definitely accidental, but the fact that he's so clearly neurodivegent is good enough for me!!
Does anyone else find that relatives, coworkers & friends start condescending and talking down to you once they find out you have ASD? (or even suspect you do?) Or even that you just have a comorbid condition such as severe depression or agoraphobia? It's happening to me, and it's so frustrating. As a grown woman, I don't want people baby-talking to me, censoring themselves around me or 'yes, dear'-ing me. I can and want to participate in adult life, discussions, activities. It's just that sometimes my mind & body won't get with that programme.
Mine usually say “no you don’t” or “but you’re so competent” so I just don’t say anything anymore. They have an image of what autism looks like in their heads and it’s not a high masking autistic woman
@@Whyjustwhy772 yes, that's equally frustrating. You must feel very invalidated and abandoned by such treatment, so sorry that's happening to you.
Society seems like it's punishing us on purpose, sometimes. It's like we're damned if we do mask, and damned if we don't. E.g. my internal stress levels have somewhat reduced since I relaxed my masking, however external judgement and negativity and limiting from others who don't like that certain of my functions are impaired has ramped up, so it doesn't even make a difference. Sigh.
@@pendafen7405 Eh, I don’t mind as much as I used to. My best friend is a psychologist specializing in autism and ADHD and she guessed I was autistic pretty much as soon as we met. That was super validating. And my mum (also autistic) has always been in my corner, arguing with doctors and advocating for a diagnosis, which I eventually got at 23. I totally get you on the catch 22 of masking though, it’s like we have to choose between our own comfort and NTs’ comfort, and both choices get negative reactions from people around us
I'm in school to be a social worker. Autistic, socialized female (identify as trans/genderqueer). I "outed" myself as Autistic for the first time in an abnormal psychology class because the professor was teaching about person-first language and presenting it as the only option. I had classmates suddenly decide they couldn't work with me in groups anymore, because suddenly I wasn't capable... Since that experience, I've made it a point to Be Autistic Out Loud in every one of my social work classes, because students who are unable/unwilling to work with me as their peer have no right to go into this field with their harmful stereotypes about what disabled clients can achieve. Sometimes there's no discernable reactions to me, but other times the differences in both student and teacher interactions is so incredibly jarring. I'm an adult, same as any other. I earned my way into this program, same as everyone else. I deserve to be treated the same as everyone else and be made to feel like my presence is valued and important.
@@oscarthegrouch23 Sorry to hear it, sounds frustrating and confusing, when you're just trying to complete education and move on with your adult life.
Does this happen to you at home and work as well? Or in any other classes? And is it definitely because of your autism being known? (i.e. is the correlation between your 'outing' and the different treatment undeniable?) Would that be worth gently inquiring about, in private either with your tutor/s, pastoral rep/care officer or friends in a different class who you trust? I ask because on paper the situation sounds highly context-specific (i.e. confined to one small class). We simply don't know until we find out what other people have heard or assumed about us--could there be a miscommunication or misunderstanding at play here? Or an error in tone? These tend to go over autistic peoples' heads sometimes--it took me physically overhearing gossip spoken about me to come to the conclusion in my OP, before that I had no idea anyone spoke or thought less of me. I've also been in situations where what I've said has been misconstrued as antisocial, sarcastic or malicious because of my low affect or poor delivery--could this be the case for you?
Also, from what you've said about your case, it's probably pertinent to realise and respect that some women are distressed or wary around male & male identified people because of past trauma (depressingly common)--perhaps your female classmates are this way. Until we ask or it's disclosed, we never know what other people have been through. Everyone has a right to boundaries and self-protection, over anyone's right to feel 'important'.
And as far as prejudice toward autism goes, if someone's had a really bad experience (so, more than mild temporary inconvenience or discomfort) with someone in the past who had autism, then personally I do totally understand their wariness around us and give it a pass. Not everyone has to be ok with everyone, sadly life just doesn't work like that. Even neurotypicals with good social skills sometimes meet a person or small group who take exception to them for no reason.
That said, this is a major issue when the aversion behaviour we encounter is constant and systemic from most or all of society, and if that's happening to you, then I hope you can graduate very soon then move community to somewhere more accepting or find a chosen family who don't judge. Wishing you every success and happiness.
I'm interested to see where TV depictions of robot/alien characters might intersect into this discussion. All of my favorite characters were robots growing up. I was always "the weird robot girl". Then, as an adult, I was diagnosed.
This. Makes me think of The Doctor in Doctor Who too.
Overly Sarcastic Productions did a great video called "Trope Talk: Robots" that explores this topic. Their Trope Talk on queer coding is also great, as are the rest of the series. Red is an ace queen.
For me i always liked the weird scientist character and hated others for not listenning to their logical solutions because of bs reasons (im getting a diagnosis appointment in may 😀🧍♀️)
LILO! YAAAAAAAYYYY!!! God she is so relatable. The first time I watched that movie I felt some warm fuzziness about seeing a character who accurately represented me as a child, and at the same time felt an incredible sadness for a character who accurately represented me as a child. Lilo is quite possibly a perfect character. Love her.
I felt seen when you said: "Shout out to my fellow adhders, you have this playing in the background, you're listening to it while doing the task".
I cleaned my appartment and done the dishes while listening.
There's now a podcast version of the Sherlock Holmes stories, Sherlock & Co, in which Sherlock is canonically confirmed to be autistic. The representation is (to me) very kind and realistic. Sherlock has sensory difficulties, he struggles with social situations, he talks about how exhausting masking is. John is accommodating and accepting of Sherlock's struggles and needs, and corrects him if he's causing upset or offence to someone. It's just so lovely to see (hear) and so important to me.
I love sherlock & co!!!! Its a great podcast and i think sherlocks autism is handled well. Hes an autistic character with his own personality and not just a walking list of symptoms.
Is this original Sherlock or a new Sherlock story?
I’ve noticed some Sherlock inspired stories feel like they could be autism coded.
@@casandra0 it's a modernised adaptation of the original stories.
I absolutely agree - Holmes does show autistic traits many times in the original canon. I strongly interpret him as autistic in any version.
@@hollyturner4186Probably as close as a writer from that era could make a character. Hyper focused, but with a complete lack of caring about subjects that don't pertain to his special interest of solving cases was what struck me first when reading Holmes.
Right, and what I love about the original series (that I really strongly dislike about the BBC version) is that Sherlock was never being rude just for the sake of it, or because he thought he was better than everyone else. Oftentimes he was being brash as a way to push someone towards the answers to the mystery, give them a chance to solve it themselves before revealing what he knows. He also regarded Watson as being a clever guy, despite the fact that Watson was “NT”, or whatever is the equivalent word Holmes would use lol.
The way that Mayam said that they ‘didn’t try to change their characters’ as if they didn’t spend the whole show trying to change BOTH Sheldon and Amy
They didn't change them. Their characters grew.
@@pamelapeters3342 Thinking that autistic characters have to become like the other characters and that becoming more "normal" is "growth" is the problem to begin with, jerk.
Mayim generally has really weird takes on things.
@@pamelapeters3342 Not really. They were both Flanderised. Shedlon became a petulant child and Amy became manipulative and clingily.
@Ice-Climber Sheldon became
a petulant child because Penny began to mother him, and he felt more comfortable being himself.
Amy became more clingy because she fell in love with Sheldon and had to find ways to open him up and express his love physically. She wasn't manipulative, but she did become more cohersive.
Like I said, they grew and changed.
Love that people are saying that having a romance subplot with an autistic character isn’t ok because they’re “childlike”, but the born-sexy-yesterday trope is fine as long as the character is allistic.
And by “love it” I mean “pass the brain bleach, please”
IMHO as an autistic individual, Sheldon is kind of a mixed bag to me. He is a much more complicated and nuanced depiction of autism then people give him credit for, and i think that nuance is actually what ended up being the biggest problem because the writers of the show were unable to handle the nuances of the character they created and it got a bit messy. I think he is actually a pretty accurate portrayal of what happens when autism becomes intertwined with slight narcissism (which does happen). I think the biggest issue with his portrayal is less that the depiction is "inaccurate" and more that it doesn't do a very good job of seperating Sheldons narcissism from his autism and instead of making it clear that they are two seperate aspects of his personality that feed into each other, its almost implied that autism causes people to become narcissistic or vice versa.
Honestly I think the writers didn't set out to make an autistic character originally, i think they were trying to create a goofy Socially awkward scientist who was too self absorbed and oblivious to realize he was socially awkward, and that type of character is just naturally going to become at least somewhat autistic, and then when people started pointing out the similarities bewteen sheldon and autism the creators kinda just ran with it without fully understanding what they were doing, and that is how we ended up with an 'autistic' character that is some how simultaneously nuanced, stereotypical, and problematic. But I think the unintentional nuance is what draws so many allistic people to the character, because it was a much more nuanced depiction of autism than you typically see and i think it did actually help some allistic individuals understand autism a bit more because it did prompt people who found the character interesting to look into autism in a way they probably wouldn't have otherwise, through video essays and such.
Also sheldon is given alot of agency, growth, and social acceptance, which is pretty rare for autistic characters. Often autistic characters are treated as a stagnant character that people put up with out of pity and kindness, but with sheldon you can tell that even though they are often exasperated by his behaviors his friends really do love and respect him, and that's ind of refreshing to see. I might eventually do a long form essay on sheldon becuase i find his depiction such a fascinating mixture of good and bad.
I really hate the belief that the Big Bang creators have that "being medicated" is a bad thing. And medical autism diagnosis is awful, particularly during the 90s, so Sheldon could have absolutely be autistic.
They all could... take Leonard... he counts the number of seconds that Penny hugs him before he leaves for Antartica, then he then brings it up with her. That is not neurotypical.
Right, especially when you already have it being a sitcom, which basically is just a get out of writing free card to make every interaction people miscommunicating.
@@pauldaigle2344 Everyday people make the concept of neurotypical narrower. Being weird is not beingND.
I really think that all the characters in The Big Bang are very very very autistic except Penny 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️🤷♀️
@@sideshowmobCounting seems to be part of neurodivergence, not necessarily autism. I count all the time on different things, different situations and contexts. I am autistic, so it’s just a small part of what I do, but not everyone does this.
Even before diagnosis, myself and many of my autistic friends were treated like a spectacle by our allistic peers at school and by other children who picked us out in public. The fact that allistic people see no issue with milking autistic people as their personal lolcows is one of the many reasons I have no respect for people who don't see the problem with making fun of autists / bullying behaviour and abuse perpetrated by children. They are culpable and their age shouldn't distract from the fact that they should be held to account and taught better.
exactly!!! not to "trauma dump" but this resonates a lot with my high school experience. i was just minding my business. i never made waves. i just wanted to blend in. a group of "friends" invited me over for a slumber party and spent the entire night making fun of me. another instance, two boys came up to me and asked which one of them i'd date as a bet. i was so confused in the moments because it didn't make sense to me. i hadn't done anything to these people. i was just existing. but to them, that was a problem.i didn't get diagnosed until i was in my 30s. looking back, it's very jarring to think that's why certain things happened.
@@promisemochi yeah, my school years were horrid too, then again it was thanks to the day treatment program therapist of a "school for problem students" that my family n I were made aware of me bein on the spectrum..ugh the TEACHERS joined in bullying me despite knowing my diagnosis...
Brick on The Middle is one of my fave autistic characters and there are a few episodes with his friends from “social skills class” that are all delightful (idk if they say he is autistic but it’s beyond coding it is too accurate 😅)
I'm nonbinary afab, 21, and pretty sure I'm neurodivergent of some kind. I went to get a diagnosis, the doctor said I'm too smart and that was pretty much all I got. When I first met with him he said if someone comes in saying they are autistic they most likely aren't and that rubbed me the wrong way. I've decided I don't need a diagnosis but I have an anxiety diagnosis that is able to get me the accommodations I need. But if I didn't have that I would need a diagnosis
I'm autistic, my partner has ADHD, we have an incredible (bio) daughter and we... do not tell people anything we don't *absolutely* have to. I can count on one hand the number of people in our lives who know both of those things and we keep it that way, both to protect our daughter from general judgement and (frighteningly to consider) to protect our ability to keep custody of her. Media representation starts as this very interesting, kind of low-stakes feeling thing, but I can guarantee you that the stakes are high and dangerously close to getting higher. Thank you for doing the work to shed actual light on these things in such a fascinating way!
I'm really glad you brought this up. Especially with recent laws in places in the US (or attempts at passing said laws, fortunately a lot of them don't make it all the way to actual law, at least no so far) that skirt dangerously close to "people with autism/similar ND diagnoses can be legally considered incompetent solely based on their diagnosis." I wish my brain would let me remember more detail but I remember reading articles and being just outraged and also terrified. And I don't have kids to worry about. Wherever you are in the world, I hope your social surroundings do (or will someday soon) treat you and your family with respect as autonomous individuals.
I'm also autistic with a partner with ADHD and we have a son. I think we're doing an incredible job and he's amazing.
@@kittysunlover actual who have actual autism have an IQ around 70 and are incompetent.
@@kittysunlover WTF. I am so happy I live in Europe
A lot of people have zero idea of how much danger an official Autism Dx can put Autistic people in, not only after it's on paper but during the process of trying to acquire the Dx. It ranges from the inconvenient & slightly upsetting to completely life destroying/taking.
And unfortunately there's no real standardization (both legally and interpersonally) so the danger the Dx could bring someone can change drastically depending on a ton of different factors. This danger only compounds for Autistic people who are otherwise marginalized.
Sia's response that she made Music with "special abilities" sounds more like she's putting Autistic people on some kind of high horse, or making them out to be Super human rather than human.
But in the next breath, says that casting a person at “Music’s level” would be “cruel”.
It’s sad, because I’m sure that Sia could have created something much more authentic using her own experiences instead of going off half baked.
The fear of just saying disabled is pretty annoying, imo, as someone who is disabled for being on the spectrum as well as for a physical disability. I had a friend once go on a full rant about how it's wrong to use the word disabled for autism because "she was studying about autism when she was in college and read that autistic people don't consider themselves as disabled", to which I had to remind her a few times I'm autistic and am very ok with referring to myself as disabled.
@rabaneteist I think the problem comes with the ableist stigma, often legal, that is associated to being titled as such.
In a lot of states, if you request financial/social assistance they WILL take any children in the home; if there isn't an nt involved.
(The thinking being if you are not able to be financially stable while "mentally disabled", than you aren't fit to be a guardian).
You lose the benefit of the doubt allistic people are given in making social mistakes. Ironically backwards to how needs play out; but it is the reality of the situation.
Less privileged people on the spectrum, with no familial ties or social structure are at a huge disadvantage, best case scenario. And in a lot of danger for harassment, worst case scenario; even when qualified as high functioning.
@@rabaneteist is always neurotypicals talking over what words and descriptions and things should apply to us and feeling offended on our behalf because obviously we're too dumb to speak up or understand why is bad
@@thewingedsiren9366yeah but when it comes to those things, using a different term doesn't change that. They will still yank your kids from you. I'm not labeled "disabled" but I'm still having social workers warning me that if I lose my job due to my heart issues, they WILL take my kids away and I will not be getting them back. Funnily enough, me having autism, ADHD, and MDD aren't being held over my head. (Which I'm not complaining about.)
As a Disability Support Worker, I have worked with queer and trans Autistic people. So the Good Doctor's portrayal as those experiences being totally opposed is baffling to me.
Another example I can think of is potentially Temperance Brennan from Bones lol which is ironically a show that has some of the most respectful trans representation you can find despite being a crime show immediately after 9/11 lmao and I'm trans. I can judge that haha
Thank you for the video!
Every Star Trek has had at least one autistic-coded character. The most relatable for me personally was Reginald Barclay. There are people who somehow insist he's allistic despite him having shutdowns, having meltdowns, having no difficulty whatsoever socializing with simulations, and spending nearly every moment onscreen visually stimming. _We know our own when we see them!_
Yep. Because it was created and written by an autistic man 😊. My favorite is Odo, especially with his romantic adventures.
The three main diagnoses: Clinical, Self, and Peer Reviewed.
If enough Autistics say "One of us", one should look into it.
@@AngryPug76 I love Odo too! He reminds me of myself and I love seeing him be happy and also have real* problems. (*real for star trek)
I don't know how anyone could look at Barlcay and say "neurotypical" imo he's almost possibly the most accurate if it was possible to have an average of autistic representation (which obviously is dumb) but like he is probably the most nuanced with accuracy? Like Data is the savant type, same with spock/vulcans in general, same with Bashir, and while Barclay obviously is shown to be intelligent and within the realm of his confidence - skilled, he doesn't have that same 'savant-like' presentation that almost every other star trek autism rep has.
@AngryPug76 yes Odo! I love his grey ace vibes and I wish they'd stuck to a more ace identity throughout the show
I've been diagnosed at 26 (and I have OCD along with autism). I identify very little with those characters. I'm no genius. I like making new friends, although it's hard to. There's a long way to go till they represent us well, the spectrum is a multiverse.
Preach. It is so hard sometimes though (especially if you got additional conditions).
Until neurotypical people see us as human, they will always get our representation wrong. As someone who is autistic and has been treated like shit by all but a handful of neurotypical people my entire life, good fucking luck.
I've come to the conclusion that I don't want representation. I never asked, and I really hate it.
I think I’m with you there.
it's interesting how varied the experiences of autistic people are, and how something deemed "bad representation" by most of the community can still make specific members of it feel seen. I'm autistic and have never seen The Good Doctor, but as soon as you played the clip of the character's meltdown, I immediately identified with it. When I was younger, that was what a lot of my meltdowns looked like - I would feel frustrated and misunderstood, and get very caught up on the source of my frustration. I couldn't mask until I got older, and would scream over and over until I felt like someone (usually an adult with power over me) actually understood what I was trying to say. My skin would feel like it was on fire, I wouldn't be able to stop crying, and my emotions felt so big that I had to scream until it hurt to get them out. If I hadn't learned to cope so well, I could easily imagine myself in his position, fixated on the unfairness of having my capabilities doubted and unable to handle feeling like I needed to prove myself. Having my autonomy denied, or being assumed to be incompetent, not being able to advocate for myself, etc. were frequent things that would set off my autistic rage.
Mayim Bialik has also pushed starseed and indigo children talking points, which in my opinion disqualifies her for ever defending poor autistic representation/stereotypes. If you're not familiar with those, they were hippie/New Age ways of saying "My child is 'special,' but not autistic"
The fact that she's also a Zionist -
Jesus Christ, you nailed it 💀
As a teen I thought I was an indigo child, I'm Autistic 🤣
Unrelated but she's also a zionist so.. :|
@@can-of-pringles What's that?
Entrapta actively makes flirty comments in the show. Granted, they are directed at robots and not overtly sexual, but it is a kids show so this is the most we can expect, anyways. She isn't childlike and it's fine to ship her.
The way she looks at tech resembles a sort of middle ground between the way I look at a crafts project and my partner looks at me
Entrapta was my favorite character on the show because I found her most relatable. I never felt like the narrative infantilized her. She had insights that others might overlook, and she saw the good in people that others wouldn't give a second thought.
There are also some scenes in SHE-RA where Entrapta engages in some pretty unsubtle innuendos that she’s sexually attracted to robots (younger audiences won’t pick up on them, but adults watching certainly will)!
@@Naruto85RasenShurike My favourite is in the star siblings episode, quality time with Darla. Hell yea.
@@anzaia2164 THAT’s the innuendo I was thinking of!
As an autistic adhder who spent the whole duration of this video tidying around the apartment and then working on finishing a jigsaw puzzle I’ve been doing for weeks - I laughed at the little shout-out at the end to adhders
Also, you communicated so many things I’ve wanted to say about my experience but haven’t been able to articulate yet (and I consider myself fairly decent with words at times). It kinda blew me away, tbh. Especially the parts about the sometimes semi-unconscious process of learning to mask, about having certain ideas on how adults are “supposed” to act, about working a full time job but needing to spend the rest of the time recovering, about thinking one’s experiences are normal but feeling like /something’s/ wrong but being unable to name it… anyway this is so rambly but I just felt incredibly seen and that was so valuable to me. Thank you and all the folks who helped with this, it was so comprehensive and insightful and thoughtful and empathetic 💚
glad you mentioned ocd's struggles for representation in this video, though of course that isn't the focus...as someone who struggles with OCD but has a messy room, feeling like my experiences are understood is rly gratifying considering how rare it is
also rly glad you highlighted healthy autistic representation
I do like the couple in Australia that laughed at the interviewers when they asked about sex. “Duh, that’s the easy part!” I agree. As an autistic adult, sex is not an issue. For me, it’s neurotypicals not understanding me.
I also was called for the show but refused to date the one guy from MA . So they rejected me. I think it was also that I am over 35. I noticed they don’t have autistic women over 30 on the show. I find that odd.
From MA?
29:50 bro I was around when netfilx she-ra was at it's peak and bruh the way ppl treated entrapta as if this woman wasn't 30 was wild
Entrapta is one of my favourite characters and when I found out she’s like 30 I liked her even more.
This is a woman who has her shit together in ways I can’t even begin to aspire to.
ooh i absolutely loved her! what did ppl treat her like? i was not at all involved in online fandom/discourse when i first watched it
@@confusedpotato5017
Basically what’s described in the video. Some people thought it was “wrong” to romantically ship Entrapta with any other character because she’s “basically a child” despite the fact she is freaking 30 and by far the smartest person in the entire cast. Classic infantilisation of autism
To be completly fair, I think that's partly because of the artstyle. Like, after I looked up I know most characters are 17-21 and Entrapta is 30. But before I watched some episodes with my sister and looked it up, just based on pictures I honestly tought Entrapta is like 16 and most of the others are like 12-18.
Growing up in the dark about my autism/ADHD and having no obvious representation in media here’s a few tv show characters I was drawn to before even knowing what autism was:
- Both Data and Spock from Star Trek (data for wanting to be more human and trying to understand them, Spock for his masking of his emotions)
- The literary version of Sherlock Holmes (how his habits and mannerism were described and the way he thinks is very similar to my own)
- Daria (loving books, being brutally honest, feeling like an outsider and being the “brain”. Only later did I realize it’s my special interests happened to make me look gifted in areas when in reality I had dyscalculia and other issues like ADHD)
- Ferb from Phineas and Ferb (because he talked about as much as I do around people)
- Abed from Community (doing research on Abed was how I discovered autism was even a thing!)
- BMO from Adventure Time (it’s been so long since I’ve watched the show I don’t remember why)
There are more but that’s all I can recall off the top of my head.
I think it’s important to remember that there are autistic stereo typed traits but they still are real traits autistic people have. It’s what’s done with that representation that’s important.
Some are very childlike, are often under the asexual umbrella and can be very, very skilled or knowledgeable in a subject or skill to the point you might as well give them a phd!
I myself feel like I’m stuck for ever as my twelve year old self, I’m asexual/aromantic, and I have encyclopedic knowledge of many of my numerous special interests!
However I struggle and strive to have independence as an adult; I am not naive about sex (in fact it’s very interesting and I probably know more information about every possibly type and sexuality than most people out there); I may be able to give university level lectures about my special interests but if you make me do math or put me in class and have me interact with others I’d fail 100% of any of that!
I love the head canon that Kageyama Tobio is autistic especially because his “special skill” is not just a “natural special power” but something he has worked on for years and his pattern recognition helps with it
And he isn’t utterly useless on everything else; sure he isn’t a top student but he doesn’t need codling, dude is just a dumb teenage boy with some serious hyper focus and clearly lower social awareness.
If he and Hinata were autism meets ADHD that would be so cool.
@@j.kaimori3848This is absolutely my head cannon.
Ushijima is 1000% autistic posterchild. He struggles to read social cues and says literally what he thinks while not realizing he comes off as rude. Brutally honest and doesn't understand tone/expression. That, added to him generally being kind of intense, makes him totally intimidating until you figure out that, oh, he's never needed to mask his entire life. Quite a lot of autistic person humor going on there imo.
I see Kita as having the same brand of ASD where he's very black-and-white and kind of takes things literally... on top of that there's also his need for strict order and routine. Is Kenma a given? (High-functioning enough to mask but doesn't do it because of social anxiety?)
I would call those out as highly probable. Meanwhile I've got head canon borderline-autistic Akaashi (seems to have a little bit of everything), I want to say he's very good at masking.
Jury's out for Sakusa. He definitely understands nuance and social convention, but at the same time he does not enjoy talking to people or involving himself in social situations. That being apart from the "lol OCD" thing, of course.
I'm sure the characters are partially based on real-life people - which really confirms the notion that it's much more genuine when you set out to write characters as individuals rather than a set of perceived/defined "autistic" traits.
@@j.kaimori3848 That would be cute as hell but I actually find Hinata to be more on the neurotypical side - compared to myself and most ADHD people I know.
When I think ADHD I think Koganegawa (inattention leading to stupid mistakes), probably the Miya twins (impulsivity), and THE ENTIRE JOZENJI TEAM i.e. party team 🙃
Some of my favorite autistic and ADHD rep AND popular headcanons come from The Owl House. Luz and Eda both canonically deal with ADHD (as well as Eda’s curse being a clear metaphor for chronic illness) and many characters surrounding them have varying levels of neurodivergence (namely Amity and Hunter being the most popularly headcanoned autistic characters, but Willow and Gus both display traits as well). With the show’s entire narrative being Eda’s famous “us weirdos have to stick together” byline and how colonialism and its power structures seek to actively disenfranchise and destroy those “weirdos,” the characters difference and neurocomplexities are at the forefront of the conversation about the show. Highly recommend!!
My friend introduced me to the Owl House as I was struggling with my sexuality and ADHD and needed something comforting. I have been thoroughly enjoying the show so far and adore the characters of both Eda and Luz (heck, I'm loving all the "weirdos" so far). I'm a grown adult, but I find the show so comforting and really enjoy its themes off found family and representation.
Wow i kinda felt what you meant with Eda's condition but never realized it until i read your comment now.
Don’t forget Camilla accidentally passing down the generational trauma of distancing yourself from your neurodivergence for wider social acceptance because she was bullied and wanted to spare her daughter, something my dad did throughout my childhood and still does (and then she redeemed herself and became peak mom)
The thing with Rain Man is while that the writers kind of messed up in places, Dustin Hoffman definitely took the right direction in actually speaking to autistic people and learning from them - and that is definitely worthy of respect.
This was SO well researched and presented I'm actually in awe!!! Only just found you and your videos through suggested stuff while on my own post-2021 self discovery journey where I've picked up bits here and there, but the way this neatly knits everything together and pretty much covers everything is amazing. Going to send to people, thank you!
Something that bothers me and makes no damn sense is that there are absolutely zero, ZERO autistic characters out there who communicate primarily with an aac device. That's like if every single gay character in the world had a great relationship with both their parents, it would be fucking weird. I'm really excited about the story I'm making cause one of the leads in non-speaking! The plot isn't about that either, it's a horror romance between him and this divorced father he gets trapped in a nightmare dimension with
edit: apologies, my mistake, I seem to have forgotten that our lord and savior Sia took care of it /s
I admit to never having heard of such a device. It probably would have been quite helpful when I was a child and went non-verbal for close to 2 years. My family had to just deal with my pointing and grunting. (I'm nearly 50, so diagnosis back then wouldn't have been on the table.)
@@patrickmccurry1563 I don't know what kinds of things were around when you were growing up, but now a days a lot of people use proloquo2go. It's 230$ app you get on the ipad, which is very epensive for an app but it comes with a default of over 4,000 words, different voices, the option to add a second language, and a keyboard
i've seen a clip of a kid who uses an aac device in a kids show but idk what show it was
Use of AAC devices in the media is so under-represented in general. I can only think of the main character in Speechless as a fleshed out character who uses an AAC device, but he has cerebral palsy, and isn't autistic.
Yo your story actually sounds super interesting
shoutout to Ayda Augefort from Dimension 20's Fantasy High! Canon autistic after Brennan, the dungoen master of the campaign, realized that he modeled that NPC after his autistic friends specifically, she's only one of many geniuses amongst of extraordinary characters overall, and the best character to ever exist honestly, best girl forever
Dimension 20 has always such a wonderfully diverse cast of PC's and NPC's that after binging it, regular tv shows started to feel insanely discriminating and heteronormative. So props to everyone at D20!
I love Ayda! I like that her story heavily involves friendship, love, romance, family, and being a high level wizard blowing stuff up.
YES I LOVE HER
I was just coming down here to sing Ayda’s praises!!! Definitely the best autistic character I’ve seen. Her romance with Fig is still one of my favorite subplots in all of D20.
I clocked Ayda as autistic almost immediately, and seeing it confirmed in-game with Jawbone giving her a book about ASD was so cute!
"shout out to the adhd-ers who are probably playing this in the background while doing something else"
not me playing sonic adventure 2 while watching this and feeling called out LMAO (im audhd!)
When i (an autistic person) said that i saw autistic traits in Sherlock Holmes, another person in my class imediately called me neurotypical for thinking that...
Apparently it was wrong of me to see some of my own traits in a fictional character.
You are so right about neurodivergent people who might have gotten by a good half century ago without accommodations having trouble today. My dad has ADHD, but grew up in a paper and pens time where he didn’t have to keep track of things he couldn’t hold in his hands. Every assignment was on a piece of paper, so he just coasted through school without any accommodations. He definitely missed a bunch of homework, but it wasn’t as bad, and he aced every test. He might be slightly farther ahead right now if he was medicated in college, but he certainly isn’t doing bad. I just don’t see him finding the same success today without at least a 504.
I think it depends, my dad is ADHD too and seriously struggled. He was severely punished and made to feel stupid, in the end he essentially stopped going to stay home teach himself drums and formed a band. But it totally affected his self worth and mental health for many many years, only now with my official diagnosis is he realising it wasn’t his fault.
also social expectations have changed and more jobs have an unwritten "work place culture" requirement and the types of employment in the US have changed. Add in the companies giving out inconsistent schedules for hourly jobs and you get extremely stressed people not allowed to stick to their own routine.
As an adhd/autistic student I feel this :/ I hate virtual-only assignments because I CONSTANTLY forget they exist.
21:53 A woman called Grunya Sukhareva characterized autism nearly two decades before Leo Kanner and Hans Asperger but it appears that her research wasn’t translated from Russian etc. etc. plus her being a woman most likely led to her not being credited historically 😕 Although it seems that the men who ”discovered” autism did know about her so..
Very glad her pioneering contribution is mentioned in the comments section! Her written observations were comparatively more on the acceptance side than what these other two credited men wrote.
Wow, I had never heard of Grunya Sukhareva before
The character of Moss on the IT crowd is in some ways quite an interesting case. Many of his characteristics (including some of the autistic-coded ones) are just Richard Ayoade's own (e.g. his voice, mannerisms, glasses, hair), which highlights the places where there's a big divergence between the actor and character's presentations. For instance: Moss being very desexualized in the show, while Ayoade when improvising/writing his own material on interviews and panel shows seems to be find with including racier material.
i wrote an autistic character heavily based on my experience as an autistic person. i’m so scared to post/talk about her though, because i know certain people will automatically think that she’s a stereotype of autistic girls. like she doesn’t like talking to people, doesn’t like being touched, is uncomfortable with romantic/sexual topics, really loves math, is offputting in appearance and behavior, struggles with communicating with others, etc. but she’s not a stereotype, she’s a character that is based on my own traits. she also likes to talk about lobotomies and medieval torture methods, because that’s something i’m really interested in.
"Just because someone can push through a work week and then spends the rest of their free time recovering from it doesn't mean they are able to work a full time job" I've been struggling with coming to terms with this as we speak asufhahljksdfhjkdfhgkjasdf
I always wonder why, when discussing complex and rich representations of autism in media, we often forget to mention Will Graham, from the series Hannibal. The showrunner has recently denied Will is autistic (maybe as a nervous effort to distance the show from any polemic) yet the first line uttered by the character in the entire series is that he most probably is and the character is written and coded as that.
Graham is a very interesting character: nuanced, humane, layered. He’s not a savant but a very highly intelligent hyperempath who constantly suffers from this ability, and ability that’s being instrumentalized and weaponized by the people around him. But he constantly fights back against these pressures but also against his own impulses. And despite on how the show and the character ended (or maybe because the very way the character ended) to me he’s a very respectful, intelligent and elegant representation of an autistic coded character.
Addendum: it’s also so refreshing to see a good autistic representation outside a cartoon.
Oh I loved Will, I should really finish watching that show 😅 I just didn't want to see him so beaten down and manipulated even though I knew it was the point of the show it was upsetting me 😅. The gaslighting! Ugh! Hard to watch!
One thing I liked about Will Graham’s character was that he wasn’t unempathetic-the default “flaw” for autistic characters-he was so empathic that it often put him in danger.
@@matthewparris8260 indeed. He was capable of truly loving everything; feeling everyone. Feeling so so much.
Was looking for this comment lol. Will has always been one of my favourite characters, and both in the novel and in the show he is very autistic-coded, and he says himself in the show that he is “on the spectrum closer to Asperger’s and autistics”, which given the novel was written in the 80s, says to me he is autistic. Yet while the characters sometimes treat him as fragile or easily manipulated, at the end of the day he is an independent and nuanced character. I definitely feel like he should get talked about more, although he does fall into the “autistic savant/superpowered autistic” category. But at least they show the positives and negatives of having a skill like that.
@@Snowbird5779 I don’t know how savant he truly is. He’s exceptional, yes. But sometimes he’s not even the smartest person in the room and I’m not only talking about Hannibal. That’s what I like. Everyone on the show, except for Chilton, are truly remarkable and that’s a great setting to insert a talented autistic character.
Another really good example of a popular autistic headcanon is Mob/Shigeo Kageyama from Mob Psycho 100! The entire show itself can be read as an analogy for how masking and repressing yourself leads to meltdowns and includes a lot of themes that are very relateable to autistic people (especially autistic ppl with social anxiety!!). There's a lot in there about how a support system is vitally important for you to grow as a person, and how it's always more important to be authentic to yourself than to cater for and mask around other people. I love it so much, and pretty much every single character in the main cast can be read as autistic in one way or another.
Wow. Somehow I never picked up on that, and now I realize it's possibly because all the characters have some autistic traits so Shigeo doesn't stand out very much. I wonder whether the author is ASD.
@@popp5926 Yeah!
"because the real autistic person wouldn't be capable of traveling by themselves" is crazy. my sibling has autism and they're much more capable of traveling alone than I am. they can travel anywhere they want by themselves without problems while I can barely go to places I frequent, like school, alone. I have pretty debilitating social anxiety, not autism. it's always so funny when people can't understand things affect different people differently
True story:
I was diagnosed with Aspergers in 2000, the first time I saw an example of an autistic person, in media, was on an episode of Law & Order C.I.
The Autistic person was a serial killer and an incel type.
Today's representation of autism is certainly imperfect, but it's better than "Autism = incel, serial killer".
In regards to that, you can see Sheldon Cooper being good hearted, and not a creep with women. It not perfect but is better than what you just commented.
Many serial killers have Aspergers syndrome so the writers most likely based him on a real serial killer.
@@duskonanyavarld1786
"Many" serial killers. Been eating your propogand'Os my boy?
Love the video! Josh Thomas and I have a similar experience. During the production of Dead End, I also got my autism diagnosis thanks to writing the characters and talking with our consultants. And then we had other autistic writers, story boarders and animators throughout the production. Sometimes it was scary, as early on, we were told by one consultant NOT to hire autistic people because they'd struggle... that's when I decided to finally get my diagnosis, so that I could be a better advocate and have people trust I knew what I was talking about.
Hi Hamish :D
The reason I started to question if I was autistic (knowing this about myself has greatly benefited me) when I was around 12 was through good representation (Ty Blackthorn in the Shadowhunters books) who I really related to and was shocked when there was a passing reference to him being autistic because before that all I knew about autism was based on ableist stereotypes and misinformation
Honestly I always thought Shaun just had age regression from childhood trauma and watching his brother die but that’s just how I perceived it
That shout-out to ADHD people right there at the end caught me like a deer in the headlights, currently tidying up my room😅
Saaaame - but I'm working on a monotonous design!! I came here looking for this comment!!
@@pawprawksI’m working on a graphic design project for work while this played in the background!
me too 🤣
Ha! I wish I was tiding my room! I was instead playing Spider Solitaire.
I ADORE Quinni and Abed, they are both very comforting portrayals for me as an AuDHD haver with similar special interests to them. Thank you for this insightful video, as autistic representation is SO hit or miss [usually miss] so its great to note whenever someone does it right.
One show that I love that I rarely see talked about when it comes to autism is The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. The creator himself has openly stated he was diagnosed with high-functioning and that Billy and Mandy represent his autism. He said on what I think was his tumblr, “So yeah. Mandy's probably on the spectrum. As are Billy & Grim. Mandy is the cold, rational way I learned to view the world in order to survive. Billy is the fun and joyous inner-world where I like to spend my time. And Grim is the moral mediator between the two. It's really Id, Ego, and Superego to some degree. I haven't thought about that in a long time, but that was purposeful.” Obviously the characters are over-dramatized as they are cartoon characters, but after watching the show more recently and reading about the creator it gave me a whole different perspective on the show, which I thought was pretty cool
Netflix has a show called Atypical which follows a young male adult who navigates life right after graduating high school and beginning college with autism. I have not been tested for autism but I do have ADHD and I connected with his character almost immediately. I don’t actually know what work was put into writing and portraying the characters as authentic as possible but I connected with him and his struggles very quickly.
I’m ngl I just got off of a sixteen hour shift at my hospital and was so exhausted at the end of it that I cried in the car before heading home. I know it might seem stupid but something as simple as being able to come home and unwind to one of your videos and a nice meal is just making me feel very grateful. Sorry for all the mellow drama lolol, love your content and keep up the good work❤
that's not stupid at all! 16 hours is very long (isn't that illegal tho) and coming home where you can finally relax is very nice
Not stupid at all. That's such a long shift and I'm sure it was stressful. Hope you're able to relax and have a good evening.
@@Mello-td6vtit is not illegal, nor is there an OSHA standard concerning extended or unusual shifts (can you tell I googled it lol). It certainly sucks though. Regulations regarding breaks and consecutive shifts probably vary by state
Thank you for the work you do :)
@@VultureSkins worker's rights in the us suck so much
@36:05 - This was literally me. One of the commonly repeated "when Kittysunlover was a kid" stories my parents would tell is how they were told by various professionals (teachers, caregivers, etc.) that I was potentially autistic and they should have me tested, and their response was just "well she's nothing like Rain Man." So.... they never took me to be tested or seek out any of the possible supports that might have been available for me growing up.
My mom did the same thing about me RE: my ADHD - I was "no where near as 'out of control' as [my] godbrother, so they were clearly wrong" according to her. Oopsie doopsy my symptom and characteristics cluster looks different than his did.
@@ZethsCraftDesk I'm sorry that happened to you. I hope you're getting the support and resources you need now!
Me, an ADHD, who had this video on while working. "fellow adhders who probably have this on in the background"
*Surprised Pikachu*
My favorite autistic character is Twyla from Monster High (the new reboot on Nickelodeon). She loves reading and monster history, and everyone is really nice and accommodating to her. We even see her wearing headphones in the school dance episode so she can spend time with her friends without being bothered by the loud music