From a TRIP point of view, it is important to hear and listen to as many different perspectives as possible. Find some of our other videos on the matter here: - Rory's Historical Explainer: th-cam.com/video/xAs5EOBUDcs/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared - The Palestinian Perspective: th-cam.com/video/AtsTsCFxrNI/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
Yeah, beause I still think now, that the genocides are of a UN Allies, mobs Part 1 = the European Jews reduced and then changed when placed into Israel, as they were not accepted as refugees ww2 era, why? Because gas and oil right under the Gaza strip, had the UN allies KNOWN THAT THEN??? AND PART B: PALESTINIAN ESPECIALLY GAZA STRIP GENOCIDE,APARTHEID. JUST LIKE THE JEWS IN EUROPE WERE ALWAYS BLAMED AND GHETTOIZED. YET- HAMAS AND OCT.7, IS QUITE AN ISOLATED ISSUE TO ME. COMPARED THOUGH TO WHAT MY POINT IS, NOT THAT THE PREVIOUS HAMAS terror events are unimportant, of course, but Hamas as nearly its own issue or another issue. Whatever else is involved, maybe with cia?
Glimmer of hope? Israel kills Palestinians ALL THE TIME. Why no news? Sure, Israel got attacked, but Palestinians are having their homes attacked ALL the time. Pssst, why is 40% of Palestinians under the age of 15? Where did everyone else go? Surely, adults should should out number the "under 15" by more than 60% of population? Check out age spread in ANY COUNTRY. Glimmer of hope, is believing Israeli lies.
The story about the family that organised the kite festival was heart-breaking. So much suffering. The pain of Palestinians and Israelis is immense. I feel for both sides and hope there can be healing for all innocent people that have become embroiled in this horrific ordeal.
Hmmm, set up a lawn chair and watch your military mortar people in fenced off area...SORRY, ones a first world country, the other has even basic building supplies available. Sure, murder is murder, but one is WAY worse then the other. Killing Palestinians is like shooting fish in a barrel... SORRY, Im not buying the victim narrative being woven by the Israelis. For FURTHER info, check out the West Bank, pssst no hamas. Israel just buses people in to take tours of homes occupied by Palestinian multi generational homes...then they get to have it. WATCH THE TH-cam VIDEOS...meanwhile, Israel can NOT do the same in Gaza. WHY? People that are crazy enough to fight back will shoot them. STOP believing the lies. Want a doozey. Google the defenition of "Semitic". It turns out the ARABS are ALSO semitic...but being "anti" Semitic can only happen against the Jews? Why?
@@AShah1313 The peace of Israelis is bound to the peace and wellbeing of Palestinians. It's not correct to refer to Israel as a democracy. They have consistently violated international law and I hope that the horror of these past events will lead to some serious leadership in Israel. That's all I can say. I have more sympathy broadly with Palestinians, because objectively they have faced more persecution in this relationship. It's not fair to call this a war. This is a slaughter that Israel is inflicting on the people of Gaza and the west need to be doing everything they can to stop it. That being said, no one can persuade me that Israeli lives don't matter too and I wish those innocent lives had been left out of this. Take care.
@@corndoggydogdog flying kites from the land stolen from Palestinians even by the borders of 1948 is not solidarity. It's mockery of the Palestinians who are stuffed in that small strip of an open air concentration camp. And Yuval thinks of it as the nicest and purest of human interaction! Do you know how many in Gaza die monthly due to lack of treatment? I can tell you that in a single year, kids die of diseases treatable and curable in other parts of the world more than the entire casualties of this massacre! But those don't even count!
@@corndoggydogdog when you have not lived terrorism, it is impossible to understand. I lived it. In Peru we have Shining Path. They killed 6,000 from the Ashaninkas tribe in the Amazonan jungle with machetes. Google it. So in Peru the left says they are social warriors and they are free meanwhile many soldiers are still on trial for killing them. So my question to you is which side do you support? Google it. We still have terrorists indoctrinating children preparong them for another popular war. Nothing the government can do and soon the children will grow and another 70,000 peruvians innocent will die.
We need more discussions like this, whereby the central concern is to eradicate human suffering. Thank You, Yuval and the panel of Thie Rest Is Politics.
A tiny historical-contextual detail, which can be illustrative of the complexity of what lies behind this terrible situation. At 13:53 Rory mentions Carlos Marighella, just stating that he was a "Brazilian terrorist", no further explanation given. One important thing to note is that Marighella was fighting against an oppressive military dictatorship that persecuted, tortured, and killed its opposition (even students who peacefully protested). Now, Marighela and his group did employ violent, 'guerrilla' tactics, which included kidnapping and killing who they considered to be enemies, and they did want a communist revolution and not a "liberal democracy" as an end goal. They were, though, fighting a regime that was indeed violent and oppressive. That's relevant to the present discussion, in my opinion, because it brings forth the need to think about the complexities, nuances and make differentiations. What Hamas did is absolutely unacceptable. Attacking civilians is a crime, and there's no justification for it. However, the context that allows for it to happen is an occupation that takes away rights and freedoms from the Palestinian population and forces them into dreadful and unsustainable living situations and hardships. The Israeli state has been responsible for numerous violent attacks against civilians too, and what is being done in Gaza now is nothing but a brutal war crime. The main concepts here to differentiate are "understanding" and "justifying". I understand Marighella's motivation, I don't justify some of his actions. I can fully understand the Palestinian's appalling conditions and motivation to resort to any means to change it. I don't (would never) justify Hama's criminal actions. I understand the Israeli population's fear, shock and even wish for justice. I will never justify and accept what the Israeli government is presently doing. One evil doesn't make another one rightful. If one's values are humanist, the only coherent stance is to condemn both, and then try to find a peaceful solution that doesn't just perpetuate hate and violence, as hard as that may be. Hamas (and Netanyahu) may not ever be interested in peace, but there are many Palestinian and Israeli people who are. Accepting actions that make them suffer even more is not a way to achieve that goal.
After reading many of the disgusting reactionary comments on various sections of the Internet regarding this situation, it's reassuring to know that there are many people still capable of calm, objective and constructive thinking. Thanks for that.
How about the context of why Gaza is in the situation it is in? Its constant attacks over decades against Israelis, it's decision not to develop self rule and peaceful thriving once Israel left the territory but instead to become a nest of terrorism? Gaza had not been under occupation since 2005. It HAS been under siege due to the ever present danger it presents. Those wondering what danger need only turn to the atrocities last week
This is a brilliant discussion and Noah Yuval Harari is so composed while obviously so consumed by grief. Thank you for this. We must have hope but every side cannot act properly in the face of this horror and pain. It’s so complex. This is so enlightening 🕊️💔
Interesting. I'm a born-again misanthrope, but it's because I've witnessed such virtue and intelligence among nonhuman lifeforms that I can no longer maintain a belief in human uniqueness.
I always wonder what is the solution to this. There has to be one otherwise we will have a genocide on our hands. I dont think palistaine will get its recognition as UK and US although say a two state solution should happen dont put any pressure on Isreal and i dont see Israel even lifting the apartheid and recognising Palestinians as equal. I have a bad feeling about this reminds me of world war 2 but this time Israel UK and US on one side against a whole lot of others or maybe not its been happening for 100 years now.
you don't lose faith in humanity. and you don't lose your own. humanity. you have seen evil before. this is the evil of radical islam being revealed. it will result in its full destruction.
Yuval said something extremely important, pertinent and simple in that we all are/can be victims AND perpetrators at the same time. Also, it's impossible at this time for Israelis and Palestinians to grasp this as they are both in immense pain. As observers, the rest of the world needs to understand this. The people in the region are in unimaginable pain.
Compared with the unimaginable pajn of Muslims in Syria and Yemen and the sheer scale of their torture, starvation and deaths imposed by ither Muslims, the pain of Gazans is not even close to that of other Muslims in the region, awful though it is. Having Israel as an enemy when it tries so hard to minimise casualties, is light years better than having Muslim Enemies. When the US and the iniquitous UN impose a higher standard on Israel than they did on the US and all muslim countries, there is little hope. Let Israel win
Thank you for creating a space that allows calm discussion of matters that carry such an emotional overload. My respect for you groes with each episode
So you want "calm discussion without emotional overload" ? *The death toll in Israel has reached 1,300, around 3,000 wounded, 150 were taken captive* In this slaughter 40 babies and children were killed in their bedrooms some of them beheaded, Hamas sub-humans beheaded soldiers, raped women, and burned Israelis alive. Those Islamist in an ISIS-like manner burned people alive, raped victims and shot babies in the head, they opened the belly of pregnant women and let the baby out dragged after her. *Men, women, children, hands bound, shot, executed, heads cut, They killed babies in front of their parents, and then killed the parents. They killed parents - sheer horror* The Jewish people had not endured anything like this since the Holocaust - *not in war, not a battlefield... a massacre* !! *Would you do "calm discussion" with the ones who raped your wife, get your baby out of her womb, dragging it like that all the way to Gaza* ? Has humanity lost it's mind , or is it just you and alike ?
Isaiah 51:9 not to forget you will drink Jesus say drink Keep following me, and let 9 And this is what I continue praying, that your love may abound still more and more+ with accurate knowledge+ and full discernment;+ 10 that you may make sure of the more important things,+ so that you may be flawless and not stumbling others+ up to the day of Christ; 11 9 Awake! Awake! their dead. eat or what you yourself with bury their dead strength, O arm of Jehovah! Awake as in the days of long ago, as in past generations. says, ‘unclean No, the living son clean Was it 12 Now I want you to know, brothers, that my situation has actually turned out for the advancement of the good news, 7 And our hope for you is unwavering, knowing as we do that just as you share in the sufferings, so you will also share in the comfort.+for the sake of Christ have become
LOL. Yuval praises the West's puppet Zelensky, he despises Putin who called out the West's hypocricy and degeneracy, he praises Israel and doesn't call out it's occupation, cruel rule and failure to provide water before Hammas carried out it's atrocious attacks. Hammas is bad but hey look at the others.
I grew up in a Muslim country, that try very hard to amplify all the atrocities to wards Palestine by The neighbouring Israel. I’m old now and I only begin to understand a little of what is actually going on. I feel sorry for all sides involved. Helpless, is the true description.
I know what you mean, friend - maybe one day the son of an Israeli settler and the son of a Hamas fighter will be able to share a coffee and say to each other "My father was wrong." I still hope so. 😢
@@nealorr5086Gaza is real Palestine where the immigrant Palestinians or Philastines first settled about 3500 years ago. The big problem is the rejection of the two states solution. They just wanted to remove Israel as a state.
Could you interview Muhammed Dajani on this subject? He is a moderate voice in the conflict who organizes Holocaust education excursions for Palestinian students at Al Quds uni. He is an extremely important advocate for empathy and normalisation in the conflict.
I concur. We need to hear from the moderates and kick the religious fanatics and extremists --and anyone who can look at pictures of murdered six-year-olds on either side without compassion --entirely out of the conversation
To learn more about the evil sex cult of Islam, please follow the following; Ahmed exMuslim, Ex Muslims Saint Murad, Nuriyah Khan, Adam Seeker, CIRA International, Christian Prince, Osama Dakdok, Rob Christian, Hatun Tash DCCI Ministries, Muhammad Faridi and Sam Shamoun among others.
It's valuable to hear the Israeli perspective on the suffering and pain in the region. I would also like to request @restispolitics to invite a Palestinian representative to the discussion. This way, we can ensure a balanced conversation by understanding both sides of the story.
But Palestinian side just spouts lies. Is that balanced reporting? I’d be ok with that if next to that speaker every time the speak lie correct fact is written beside them
U seem to be Bangladesh...i understand n feel the same pain you feel about Palestinians n Jews caught in this conflict...no matter what people shouldn't be persecuted based on one's faith ...why don u jus shed some light continuing persecution of Hindus living in Islamic Bangladesh? What is it about Islam that non-muslims are treated like second class citizens jus coz of their religion? Why this much of hatred for non-muslims???
@@prashantchachadi6896 people will only need to buy a ticket to Bangladesh and can see for themselves how people of different religions live together in Bangladesh . I usually do not reply to people's comments on TH-cam but I felt I needed to this time .People always criminalise Muslims or Islam, yet I hardly see any Muslim person hurting others by directly attacking other people's religion, making hurtful comments. In my life time, I have seen Muslim countries invaded by foreign military, innocent civilians bombed, displaced but people are clearly still not happy with it. It is still the Muslims turn out to be the bad guys . The invaders are the good guys. If Muslim countries are so horrible, why so many people go to the gulf countries to work there. None of those countries are dragging people from other countries to go and work for them. Ever since the horrific attack of October, every Muslim commentator showed compassion to both sides. There's no peace in this world because people do not judge people's actions, but instead judge people's religion, ethnicity etc.
Online and on tv there is suddenly an abundance of people asking the question, what were hamas thinking? and in the absence of any representative from them, unadulterated hypothetical speculation. Looking back to the Good Friday peace agreement, and at the time, the ira being voice-dubbed when asked for their view on the respective latest car bombing etc. And yet the radical decision by the blair government was to talk directly. As long as one resorts to the personal understanding of someone so far removed from the people who are the subject of this mountain of speculation, second guesses and chinese whispers, it effectively guarantees misunderstanding and attributing views etc to the people who are the subject inaccurately and misrepresentative. For such an extreme set of atrocities, as heinous, evil and despicable as they were, and as worthy of all of our condemnation as it is, it was nevertheless an operation carried out by people who, by the admission of the israeli government, for those hours, was successful in so far as it defeated the security system which purportedly exists to ensure such a disaster never occurs, rather than occupy its time with sniping stone throwing children. Taking nothing away from that, is it possible that a fundamental problem is the colour blindness and tin ear deafness to the multiple decades long slaughter of civilians on the part of the palestinians? Is it possible that, to contradict the guest speaker who you’ve titled “liberal”, there in fact is a difference in the scale of the suffering and who has paid a bigger price (as result of the active involvement of the israeli government, not as a result of some phenomenon of nature, like the tide or spring following winter), the suffering is exponentially greater in scale on the side of the occupied, not the occupier, in simple empirical arithmetical terms. It’s inconvenient for the guest to acknowledge, but the numbers counted by the UN for all to see, speak for themselves. As for immolation alive, decapitation etc, what does one imagine the white phosphorus bombs do to the inhabitants of the city blocks and residential apartment blocks being targeted? What does one imagine are the effects of high explosive projectiles on human bodies, sans iron dome or other defensive hardware? We are left to imagine, again, in a total vacuum, as these atrocities are reported in olympic gold level banal, anodyne, broadest of watercolour brush strokes, but these atrocities are ongoing, right now, in our name, as members of the community of democratic nations. The UN have outlined in plain terms that the collective punishment that is being perpetrated is illegal, an active ongoing war crime, prima facie, and day in day out press spokesmen and government ministers simply repeat the chanted mantra that israel has the right to defend itself. What is being done consciously to the civilian population of gaza in effect trapping any civilian incapable of moving quickly enough, bed ridden, life-support machine connected or not, with no ambulances or useable roads upon which to drive them, is a casually placed death sentence for a minimum of hundreds, likely thousands of people. If we ever emerge from this time and this doesn’t escalate in ways and a scale we didn’t anticipate, this will go down as one of the worst moral failures and incompetent periods of international relations in human history.
There's no solution to this because the chief protagonists on both sides have incrementally reverted to fundamentals rooted in ancient history. One bunch wear military garb or medieval attire and are dismissed as terrorists though they're probably something worse as even traditional terrorists had an ideology of resolution to their cause. The other bunch rooted in ancient fundamentals wear suits, present themselves as slick 21st century politicians and align themselves with the supposed civilized world who appease their presumptuous self evaluation. It's simple, there cannot and will never be a resolution to this mutual barbarism as long as the chief protagonists are rooted in vitriolic ideologies dating back to ancient times whether they wear military garb or medieval attire or clean shaven and in suits. There cannot be a resolution to this conflict as long as the wider world continues to respectfully indulge and dignify this mutual medieval reenactment society with a 21st century frame of reference they do not warrant.
@@roboi2241 One doesn’t have to go back to medieval times … 70 years is sufficient enough to know that Israel CONSCIOUSLY planned the elimination of the Palestinians BEFORE they ever stepped one foot onto the land of PALESTINE. Israel, pathetically, reaches back to BIBLICAL times to JUSTIFY their atrocities upon INNOCENT people, people who CAN no longer be innocent because of the devastation of their culture, land, livelihood and family.
They want their land and respect back. 75 years of an apartheid occupation is a bit too much. Israel just wants Palestine off the planet, and now Netanyahu is the agent of WWIII. It's weird to see apartheid coming from a people who faced genocide. I am not saying the loss of life is ok on both sides, but imagine being occupied for this long?
It must be noted that Netanyahu pursued policies that were intentionally designed to strengthen the power of Hamas as a counter to the power of the Palestinian Authority and Abbas who have remained committed to a two-state solution. That policy opened up channels for money to flow from Arab states to Hamas. Also, it has been reported that Netanyahu's government received intelligence from Egypt that Hamas was planning an attack weeks before it occurred. There is a good reason that Israeli citizens were stunned at the security "failure", because it should not have happened to begin with.
They weren't violent and were constituted of lawyers, doctors, and professors. It was a very different Hamas. The fatah and Hamas ideologies switched, much like Republican/Democrat in america. Please do not fall for incomplete narratives. The full story is out there to be found.
@@djon3043 Kindly do not spread disinformation. It does extreme harm and is an impediment to peace. Israeli officials, including Brigadier General Yitzak Segev and Israeli official Avner Cohen warned their superiors not to feed the monster that was Hamas in the 1980s, to no avail. At the time, the secular PLO were advocating for Palestinians. Hamas were not in power.
I keep thinking about how could Israeli security measures fail? What if it was intentionally set to fail? Why? How would Gaza and Israel be effected, if Israel retaliated? Israelis should push hard for an immediate investigation...they may well be surprised/dismayed/angry at the results.
An absolutely fantastic and enlightening interview. One sentence really struck a cord: when you lose faith in humanity, you lose your humanity. That is such a deep and profound statement. The fact is that parts of Israel society and Palestinian society have lost their humanity due to their histories. Both sides are simply motivated by fear.
It is obscene to say that any part of Israeli society has lost its humanity. The human animals who committed the attrocities against Israelis on 7 October are the ones who have lost their humanity and have placed themselves on the level of the Germans and their accomplices during the Shoah. It is also obscene to say that those human animals who committed the attrocities on 7 October were motivated by fear. They were motivated by sheer hatred.
No, One is a settler colonial apartheid state committing genocide, The other is an indigenous oppressed people fighting for their land. Its very basic.
I love open dialogue. The guest made an interesting comment, each side is trying to draw attention to their immense pain. Everyone wants their immense pain to be acknowledged, including myself. To acknowledge another's immense pain requires empathy.
Yes, and here both sides seem to be refusing to show any empathy for the other. Hamas is oppressing, abusing and exploiting its own people, all the while screaming we want to kill Jews and destroy Israel. Israeli leadership has basically imprisoned Palestinians in Gaza for decades, taken their homes for settlers, controlled access to food, water, electricity, and healthcare, responded out of proportion to Palestinian resistance (e.g. responding to kids' rock throwing with automatic gunfire), and as a result of this attack is calling all Palestinians (not just Hamas) combatants and "human animals". It's impossible to see any hope for peace with those attitudes.
I heard your previous episode & it was incredibly insightful to help a lay person understand. I can’t say that I understand everything now, but at least I can see the multifaceted nature of this situation. Unlike what we’re hearing from basic news or social media which is bifurcated….one side or the other. The conversation at large for people outside of the region has become too simplistic & charged to have a meaningful conversation.
It is very simple. Most non islamic but fully islamised countries around the area want peace because of economic reasons. These countries are governed by kings or presidents. Not islamic leaders. These countries officially want peace, but the street, full of muslims, don't want jews in their backyard. The terrorist organisations are full of these people. Only iran is run by religious people. The terrorists and iran want the jews dead. The countries governed by halfway secular reasonable money loving people are watching, not taking sides to avoid fueling their people's anger. Also, israel house a few million jews, surrounded by millions upon millions of people wanting them erased. It means israel canot use proportionate force, as trading 1 for 1 means they would be wiped out and muslims would survive. And muslims are ok to sacrifice themselves. Israel have to become a bully to survive. You can look at the conflict in a historical or military perspective. In both cases, israel is the good guy. 2000 years ago, palestine was named judea because it was the land of the jews. If you defend the right of indigenous people, you should defend israel. They have been chased away multiple times, they are the victims there. And if you think history should no be the framework, well, israel is here now and it is defending itself. If you are an american, the fact that people are supporting what happened saturday should be bone chilling for you. Because this is what they think about when they talk about anti colonialism. Sometimes, politics become reality.
It’s really not difficult unlike the self-flagellating egotistical masturbation on display here. Women raped and babies beheaded are pretty easy to condemn without making excuses for genocide and the ethnic cleansing of Jews. How’s that for “nuance”?
So appreciative that Rory and Alisdair pose a question and stand down to allow their guest to respond fully. Deep respect to Yuval Noah Harari for his profound penetration of entangled issues while not making this personal, while acknowledging the limits of his authority and problem solving. Respect, gentlemen.
There is a Palestinian called MUSA ALAMI (educated in Cambridge) and his story (which is fascinating) was written in a book entitled "Palestine is My Country" by Sir Geoffrey Furlonge. He sets out the Arab side of this "horror" and how there were times when talks helped this difficult dilemma but agreements never seem to last. The British made so many "mistakes" in this volatile land and it is partly our fault it is so fraught with upheavals and disagreements.
There's still discord and intercommunal violance in India 70 years after the creation of Pakistan and independence. The different communities were there before the British arrived in India@@Jfwqs7212
@@nizzie16Partly Britain's fault is pretty accurate. The primary thing Britain did was to not allow the creation of a purely Arab state after taking the land from the Ottoman Empire. Their first suggestion was to grant 20% of the land of present day Israel to the Jews, but it was rejected by the Arabs. Fast forward to the creation of Israel, and it was the Jews who paid for, fought and won that war of independence. Not the UK. The west does share some blame, but certainly not much of it. The Arabs refused to allow a Jewish state (very arguably their right), and they lost two wars to enforce their wishes. You lose the war and you lose the right to get your way. That's pretty much it.
The pattern. Germany got destroyed so was japan at same time. China historically. But they came back to normalcy. Compare this to the ME and countries like syria and afghanistan. The problem is that certain cultures lack the abality to homeostasis. We should work to heal and not to show the wound as badge. The only solution I see is to disperse Israelis into west and make the current isrel a park. Send all gazans to ME. We can blame britain for this but for how long? The british empire was simply good at exploiting existing fault lines and exagerating them. They did not create these faults they existed for millennia. This is not a solvalble problem because these cultures have lost homeostasis.
As a Canadian viewer and a regular viewer of your podcast I would like to offer you a challenge. I enjoy your debate and insights and found Tavul interesting. I would therefore like to hear a discussion with Dr.Gabor Mate or Norman Finklestien. I have heard both their voices and I find that is the purpose of of voices. We all have something to say. Thank you
A good interview. With reservations. There are many decent people in Israel whose voices are never heard. Offering them an opportunity to speak would be good. Can you also offer an opportunity for Palestinian voices? Husam Zomlot and Hanan Ashrawi would be perfect. As you said, it's about the politicians. But it's not the politicians who suffer the worst consequences of their own decisions.
With respect those Palestine voices dominate all our mainstream media. Their views are the views of our mainstream socialist parties: Greens, Labour, SNP etc. - they have been for decades if not for a century.
The West once again makes the mistake like in the Vietnam War, they got into the trap of the "cunning, dirty" tricks of the guerilla side, which is the only way they can deal with a strong army. They got into the West's native mind and played the victim card so well. The result of the Vietnam war as you know, is that Communism controls the land, and many people have to live in a non-democratic country, Vietnam is playing a double card between China and the US. Once again, the US like a rich guy but carry a soft mind when dealing with bandits and got kicked by them. Good job, America, you are creating another big population on your "enemy" list!
It should be said that for so many of us who are not Jews, these days are truly horrific, like ashes in the mouth, and nothing can be enjoyed, no pleasures really experienced, happiness is banished as we contemplate the unimaginably foul and terrifying agony visited on gentle people, be they men, women, children. God help us all.
For counterpoint invite Husam Said Zomlot (born 1973) is a Palestinian diplomat, academic and economist. He was appointed Head of the Palestinian Mission to the United Kingdom in October 2018. He's been on Amanpour and has been slandered by Kay Burley (on othewise evenhanded Sky) regarding his insights, which will give a sparky intro to your discussion.
I have lost all trust in humanity, even in my own. I find myself torn between feelings of compassion and revenge. I regret those feelings and thoughts of revenge and then I fall into feelings of hopelessness and despair. My heart breaks into pieces and yet my blood boils with rage! My instinct is to love but I am overwhelmed by hate. We must avoid falling into this trap. We must overcome the evil that is trying to kill our souls. We must be kind to each other, cos there is no more room for suffering.
I feel much the same as you. It is understandable that Israel has reacted the way it has. The attack by Hamas terrorists is utterly inexcusable. I don’t pretend to fully understand the history behind it, but matching extreme violence by terrorists will not solve anything. I think back to the bombing of Baghdad by the USA/UK and their NATO allies during the 2nd gulf war. It solved nothing and, similar to the bombing of Gaza, it killed hundreds of innocent civilians.
Revenge and rage for who and directed to who? It seems many believe this problem starts and stops with what Hamas do and ignore the day to day oppression for the past 70 years. Incredible
The odds that Netanyahu & the unhinged nationalists in his government will suddenly start acting responsibly are zero, & each of these 3 gentlemen knows it...
Jewish and Christian populations have been ethnically cleansed from much of the Middle East…the once thriving Jewish communities of Syria…Iraq…Lebanon…Egypt…North Africa…are no more…the Christian Coptic community which predates Islam in Egypt…is much reduced and often suffers church bombing and murder…Christians in Pakistan are regularly attacked and young Cristian lasses kidnapped and brutalized…Christians in Nigeria are regularly slaughtered……the Islamic conquests of the 7th century and following were relentless…in the 7th century Charles Martel led the Franks to victory against an Umayyad army…Europe could have easily fallen to the Muslim onslaught…and now we have large Muslim populations in Europe…Scandinavia…Australia…USA…with terrorist attacks and killings in all of these countries…Lee Rigby had his head cut off in London…for no other reason than being a British soldier walking in the street…innocents slaughtered in Bali…Islamists have taken over Afghanistan…Iran…Lebanon…Gaza…much of Iraq….Yemen…but it is the Jewish population that has suffered the worst…the bestial massacre of civilians in the ancient Jewish town of Hebron in 1929…In the war of 1948-49 five Arab armies attacked the new Jewish country...the Secretary-General of the Arab League... Azzam Pasha, promised a “momentous massacre” to rival the Mongol massacres..…even though the Palestinians had been granted their own state and their own country in Jordan... massacres and warfare ever since…the slaughter of Tali Hatuel and her four young daughters... machined gunned to death in their car…the Dee family…a Mother and two daughters machined gunned in their car…the massacre at Ma’alot…alas the list is a long one…and for what…the Palestinians could have had their own state…but Muslims have one book and one prophet and believe the Koran to be the absolute truth.. Islamists believe that their duty is to covert planet Earth to an Islamic Caliphate…no Jews…no Christians…no Budhhists…Muslims destroying important archaelogical remains in Afghanistan…Bamiyan…ISIS doing the same in Iraq…and the Palestinians destroying ancient Hebrew remains in Judea and Samaria…and then we have consanguinity…first cousins marrying first cousins in the Muslim Middle East for many centuries…inbreeding on a large scale…what sort of human beings does this tradition produce…how many of the monsters that attacked Israel from Gaza were the product of inbreeding…because hatred alone does not explain all this behaviour…all Jewish people feel abused by the attack from Gaza…we have been collectively abused by a collection of depraved…mentally defective in-breds…time for revenge…enough is enough…when will the West wake up….S H Cohen
Thankyou for this conversation, I’m glad I found it and listened to the end even though I disagree with a lot of what was said, it’s so important to listen to all viewpoints… praying for humanity 🙏
This is the best interview from the Israeli side! Yuval Noah Harari is wise and empathic for both his people and the Palestinians... This a terrible tragedy and we need people like him to bring us out of the mess and towards peace!
These are some of the most important words I have heard on the crisis In Israel & Palestine. It provides some hope but also a warning for what the future holds. Thank you.
What hope? - The number of **Palestinian demolished structures** and **civilians displaced** by Israel has increased significantly from 2009 to 2023, reaching a peak in 2016 with **1,094 structures** and **1,593 civilians**. The number of **affected civilians** also shows a sharp rise in 2019 and 2023, reaching **65,528** and **70,003** respectively. - The number of **Jerusalem demolished structures** and **civilians displaced** by Israel has also increased from 2009 to 2023, with the highest numbers in 2016 (**327 structures** and **554 civilians**) and 2023 (**279 structures** and **455 civilians**) respectively. The number of **affected civilians** in Jerusalem reached a record high of **9,190** in 2023. - The number of **Palestinian civilian deaths** caused by Israel has fluctuated over the years, with the highest numbers in 2008 (**1,440 deaths**) and 2014 (**1,492 deaths**) due to the Israeli military operations in Gaza. The number of **Israeli civilian deaths** caused by Palestinians has also varied, with the highest numbers in 2014 (**73 deaths**) and 2022 (**25 deaths**) respectively. - The number of **total Palestinians injured** by Israel has increased dramatically from 2008 to 2023, reaching a peak in 2018 with **31,259 injuries**, mostly in Gaza. The number of injuries in the West Bank and Jerusalem has also increased, especially in 2021 with **16,808 injuries** and **1,417 injuries** respectively. The number of Palestinians injured by Israeli civilian settlers has also risen, reaching **304 injuries** in 2022 and **264 injuries** in 2023.
@@ranro7371 The hope would be that Israel through occupying Gaza and removing Hamas once and for all, allows for an international community plan to provide a viable & peaceful Palestine. It is what most people hope for I think....But is it possible?! That is the million dollar question. All these deaths and the continuous cycle of revenge has got to stop. The danger is that Israel simply clears Gaza of Palestinians and makes them permanent exiles.....leaving Gaza empty. Perhaps when things look least hopeful then people will realise this has got to stop. But it is only a slim hope.
Islamic phase-transition is exactly the process, you have to understand that any Islam is hand and glove with Jihad, these Muslims are everyone's natural enemy.
I don't think Israeli occupation would be so problematic if it didn't treat Palestinians as second class citizens. After all, we all live under the rules of some government. If Palestinians could thrive and prosper as much as the Israelites can under an Israeli rule, then maybe they wouldn't be so keen on changing the situation. Or maybe I'm talking bollocks, I don't know.
Well Arab Israelis have full rights under Israel when they are citizens. The Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank are not Israeli citizens. Which makes them a conquered subject population, so your point stands, but its just that there is nuance there. The big issues all really stem from the occupied territories.
First off, the Gaza strip and West Bank are not "occupied Palestine", they are occupied Egyptian and Jordanian territory respectively. "Occupied Palestine" is Israel itself, and the Arabs that chose to remain and become citizens of Israel rather than fleeing to the "protection" of Egypt and Jordan are full citizens of Israel. The ones who did flee got rewarded by being placed in refugee camps by their supposed saviors as political pawns from 1948 to 1967. Second, despite the conditions of occupation, the residents of Gaza and the West Bank actually DID initially become more prosperous under Israeli occupation post 1967 than they had previously been under the Egyptians and Jordanians. The Israelis invested heavily in modernizing the infrastructure of Gaza & the West Bank, and integrated their economies with Israel's. Their GDP more than doubled between 1970 and 1980, and they were the fourth fastest growing economy in the world. This period ended with the First Intifada (uprising) in 1987 which lasted until 1993 and utterly crippled their economy. This uprising was carried out primarily by groups sponsored by foreign actors, such as Hamas (Islamic fundamentalists sponsored by Iran) and the PLO (marxists sponsored by the Soviet Union).
What an incredible communicator. Even in the depth of such trauma Yuval is able to think outside of his personal pain. i hope for peace in the minds and souls of all effected.
I fear the reaction of Israel to the War Crime horrors visited upon them may destroy Israel. For a deeper look see Doctor Gabor Mate on this. He is my favourite therapist who survived Hitler as a Jewish baby in Prague. I find him illuminating on Israel & these questions. What puzzled & horrified me about Bi-Bi is after these horrors he was pleased, he was smiling. What is that about? Whilst one of his military men was gaunt with grief, rage and hate. I understand the later not the former.
This discussion matures around 34mins and should be grown into a ful-blown international peace conference with these 3 interlocutors on any future panel.
How terribly sad that this sort of interview is not in our MASS media - what we see is like scraping the barrel stuff, this interview is absolutely heartfelt and so informative - your guest is a lovely and honest man, that I have no doubt of. Thank you so much for these podcasts!
Listen to him when he’s talking about people on the stage @ the W.E.F. World economic forum…. He calls us hackable animals…. Check it out, his associate Klaus Schwab have great plans ahead for ‘us’ in their agenda known as the Great Reset ( Klaus wrote the book w/that title)
Are you kidding? The media only "sells" Israel side and most politicians too. The Palestinian problem and the occupation of their land has been ignored or rather suppressed by the US for decades.
Well all we hear is the Israeli side, supported by the money resources technology might, control of all world institutions in their grip and even then they clung onto victim hood.... It is crazy....and when you have the upper hand with unlimited control. Devastate and torque with no impunity, and you are the occupation, how unbalanced on the scales does one get. For years you thrived in this unbalanced favor towards yourselves, and you wonder in horror when the oppressed revolt. Come on, ate you being daft or naive!! Or just plain right exercising the supremacist attitude of only Israel deserves to exist, all other mortals are dispensable.
Thank you so so very much for your courage to speak up, for sharing your truth, your will to overcome fear and hatred, for your constant believe in humanity, humble and strong at the same time. I am deeply impressed and find a little thread of hope for us humans, sharing this beautiful world.
And kudos to Yuval for recognising his limits for the political role. Unfortunately too many go into politics not to make a positive change for masses, but to achieve a massive change for themselves: to become rich and powerful.
1 left hand a serpent right a will 1974 a blessing This cried for full of the anger of God,+ who lives forever and ever Children And This means my war This means devote many broke which is against us, devote many because did you and he answered devote Revelation 7:5 000+ who have his name and the name of his Father+written on their foreheads. 2 I heard
Don't worry, Yuval supports removing "free will," so I'm sure his "people" will solve this "problem" by putting technology they control under their skin. Use your imagination for how that tech will be used.
As an American-Israeli, I so appreciate this honest, thoughtful and highly informed treasure of a human being. Tonight , in another evening of waiting for more rockets fired at me, worries about my grandsons in the army and reserves, and the heartache of new horrors revealed ,there are what seems almost endless pain and destruction. But here are rays of hope and the light of insights. I'm not religious in the usual sense, but feel a strengthening of willingness to hope for and work towards, a peaceful future for us all.
The phrase "competition of suffering" rings absolutely true to my impression of posts I've seen on social media. The notion that, if you acknowledge the suffering of one party you are, by default, flippantly dismissing the suffering of the other party. There seems to be no space to nuance in this discussion. It's deeply polarized.
Over the years Harari has shown himself to be an incredibly thoughtful and insightful man. He is a truth seeker not given to ideology or polemic. Perhaps he is the person Israel must turn to in this time of crises. The politicians on all sides could benefit from his moral compass.
Yuval my brother I have learned to love you, your wisdom and also your heart..... thankyou and bless you as one who can guide us to peace as we go forward from this tragic violence
I always keep coming back to individuals, families and communities at the grassroots level having to do the hard work of bringing up the next generation to be loving and considerate of their neighbours rather than hateful and fearful as the political, fanatical or terrorist group narratives are. Things will change in time but only if the following generations are not taught the hate and fear. This is hard to do when you yourself are in such pain from the terror and atrocities perpetrated against you. It’s a vicious cycle and as it stands as long as people are blinkered and cannot see the wood for the trees this cycle will continue.
How can you live in peace & without fear when your neighbors want to bust in and massacre you, your family, your baby siblings, your entire neighborhood, and 1,300 other of your countrymen? This pseudo wisdom that liberal minded people tout only goes so far. The peaceful will be wiped out by those willing to commit atrocities, look at the history of the entire region, there’s a reason every other country in the ME became majority muslim. The 10% of them that are religious extremists are impossible to live alongside.
I am not a tech savvy. I use a good old fashioned cell phone. I am therefore not on Whatsapp, Telegram, X nor any other social network. I am merely a concerned citizen interested in geo-politics, politics and history. In particular questions like; Why we as a people are seemingly unable to apply lessons from history to our present. If the reply to my comments above saying "Lets discuss above" is serious, I would love to delve into this further. I use e-mail, Skype and of course face-to-face for communications including the occasional comment on TH-cam when I view discussions and programs of substantive and intellectual quality like those presented by Roy Stewart among others. Sadly, to publish one's mail address in this forum risk exposing oneself to meaningless comments, threats and the like.
I have to be honest, Rory is a truly great person. I'm not a tory but I can;t help but wonder how they would've done with someone like him at the helm, a man of principle and integrity. Big respect for him
I read his his book "The places in between" 20 years ago, where he describes his solo trek across afganistan which conveyed both how thougtful and compassionate in nature he is. I've had a soft spot for him since then even if he is a Tory. It's a shame really, he would've made a great Tory leader.
He'd not have made a huge hash of the Covid pandemic and certainly wouldn't be partying at No 10 during lockdown! But he did vote consistently for welfare cuts in the Cameron era. He's really the last of the patriarchal, service oriented, colonial administrator class from which he is descended.
Brilliant interview. Wise and compassionate with depth of understanding. Last comments of Harari on the need for a liberal rather than merely populist - nationalist fragmented world order - absolutely spot on.
Everything I have read, or listened to from Yuval, has been profoundly true. His book Sapiens is a must read, it will change your view of the world we live in.
This is by far the most insightful and best episode you've put out in months, quite the level of the debate with John Major. Journalism at its best. Keep it up!
😢After a lapse of 4 months since this interview with Professor Noah Harari - we need a follow up interview with him - as there are so many moving parts in expressing the genocide that is clearly played out on international television and the matters before the highest court in the world - the ICJ.
I thought that was really interesting. Please also have a Palestinian speaker so we can hear about their pain too. I think it’s fair to hear both sides.
This was moving, I have family in Israel and lost a friend. I do think, however, it would be helpful to get a Palestinians perspective bc I also have a friend who has family in Gaza, and watching her stories, Hamas did not tell them to stay. They were trying to leave and the military attacks were preventing them from accessing roads, etc. Hamas wasn’t hiding in her family’s house. She was trying to leave with her family. My friend and were in contact and watching in real time on social media, and on the phone with eachother bc of our families that were there in the region. So, getting a Palestinians perspective I think is really important. They don’t like Hamas. They don’t want to live in a blockade in Gaza. They want to be able to have full citizenship in Israel. They don’t want their homes to be taken away by settlers etc.
They don’t give a fuck about Palestinians and all the massacres they have done on them . Thay are just getting payback for nakba and what they keep doing.
Why are Israelis are shocked, is not because they do not know the sufferings of Palestinians, (when in reality the creators of this conflict and holocaust are friends of Israeli state.) But they never thought that the beleaguered people can attack the most technically and militarily advanced Israel in such manner. One needs to understand who created Hamas. What role Israel played in that.
Thanks for this discussion. I’ve been trying to do my own critical thinking around this, and this helped validate what I had thought about this situation
This programme and the previous one show a balanced, detailed, factual and empathetic coverage of such an emotionally charged issue! As you said in this programme, there will be no appetite in countries like ours to intervene robustly, but we can resist the tendency to simplify the narrative surrounding it and that includes not detaching ourselves from the horrors we have witnessed. Great programme!
Thanks for having Yuval over. Always gives a much cleaner way to think about things. Small suggestion: maybe increase the video length for next time slightly, and let him complete his views?
I am deeply concerned when insightful individuals like Yuval express dwindling hope in the peace process. It's profoundly disheartening to witness scenarios where overwhelming adversity leads to the erosion of humanity. The conflict has unfortunately taken a toll on both sides, with lives lost. Israel, by virtue of its stronger economy and support from Western nations, is in a unique position to influence positive change. It is crucial for Israel to leverage this economic and diplomatic advantage to foster regional growth and stability, ultimately guiding the path to a two-state solution. From a personal standpoint, I believe that the expansion of unnecessary settlements and the displacement of Palestinians is akin to poking the bear unnecessarily. Such actions not only escalate tensions but also impede the progress of peace initiatives. It is concerning that Western nations, including the US, often overlook this as an issue. Such actions should be recognized as a violation of the rights and dignities of the people affected. Ordinary Palestinians, who might already be overwhelmed by the complexities of the conflict, would find it even more challenging to navigate this situation, especially once external influences like Hamas are removed from the equation. Furthermore, the actions of Hamas, particularly their targeting of innocent civilians, are deeply troubling and can only be described as pure evil. If their intent was to bring about genuine change, they could have directed their anger towards uniformed soldiers, rather than innocent bystanders. It appears to me that their recent actions are not driven by a genuine desire for peace. Their behavior seems more reactionary, perhaps stemming from their displeasure with the recent normalization of relations between Israel and some Arab nations, such as the UAE and potentially Saudi Arabia. As a stronger entity, Israel holds a significant responsibility to uphold ethical standards. Addressing concerns around settlements will be a step forward. Establishing a recognized international border and progressing towards a two-state solution seems to be the most viable way forward. Both Israelis and Palestinians have expressed their desire for self-governance. The sanctity of the holy sites should be preserved, perhaps through UN oversight, ensuring that they remain accessible to all followers of the Abrahamic religions. Additionally, collaboration from Arab nations in supporting and stabilizing the Palestinian state would be instrumental in forging a sustainable peace.
I largely agree with your roadmap. My only concern is what to do with the not insignificant number of Palestinians who continue to balk at the idea of a two-state solution and demand one Palestinian state from “the [Jordan] river to the [Mediterranean] sea”. How can there ever be peace if there are those who will never accept a two-state solution and who will continue to resort to violence/terrorism to tear away at it, if it is ever implemented? Maybe if they lived to actually experience a two-state solution that provided some measure of freedom and prosperity, their hearts would be changed. But that’s a long road, and it’s hard for me not to be pessimistic about any path forward from this point.
Responding to your message, I must admit that I don't have all the answers. However, it's evident that in any given population, there exists a subset that holds radical or extreme views, which may not align with the general sentiments of the majority. I observe this not just in the Palestinian territories but also in Israel. What I've come to understand is that economic prosperity has a way of tempering even the most hard-lined views. When individuals see tangible benefits in their daily lives, they often prioritize economic stability. As we discuss the formation of two states, it's imperative that these states are truly independent, ensuring neither has undue control or influence over the other's utilities or infrastructure.
All the things you mentioned that Israel should do, is the opposite of their plan and their actions. Israel has fought against a two state solution since the first day it was formed. It started to remove Palestinians and expand its borders from the very first day and that is what lead Egypt and the others to attack. When there have been peacedeals and been negotiations for a two state system, Israel has done their best for it not to happen. Israel has targetted civilians for years and they also targetted civilians now as retaliation. The pure evil actions are from both sides here. You say that western nations should recognize that Israel taking more land and forcing Palestinians out of their homes as something that furthers the conflict. Most western countries already do that. THey have done that from the start, from the very first day Israel was formed. The thing is, that the US supports Israel and they have a veto right in the UN. If not for the US, the UN would have sendt forces to deal with Israel decades ago. Even though almost every country in the UN agree that Israel is violating human rights, are a occupying force and are aggressors, they cannot do a single thing about it. The US uses its veto right to stop any attempts to make Israel stop occupying, killing and being an apartheid state.
True, when there is a competition between victimhoods it is psychologically impossible for one side to recognize the pain of the other. But then as tho to prove his own point, Yuval fails to recognise the real fear on the part of the Gazans being evicted that they might be being ethnically cleansed and never be able to return to their homes. Yuval does mention other reasons favourable to the Israeli narrative for their reluctance to leave their homes.
as far as I know israel didnt even want gaza or their homes. according to ben sharpiro atleast (no doubt based on historical fact) they tried to get egypt to claim the land. they gave the gaza strip self governance. although now this might change.. they wont round up civilians and murder them (real ethnic cleansing hitler or stalin style) but perhaps they will snatch the land now. Perhaps its about time and be done with it...take control, severely punish the resistance give freedom to those that want it under a new ruler, repopulate, establish a new border. might sound harsh...if they did that years ago it wouldve been alot more acceptable. War and conquer, take land.. it used to be normal.
This interview was intended to get the interviewees personal view on things, and even tell Yuval as much as well when he tries to *not* make it personal. An issue, however, is that the interviewers (seem to) attempt to keep their objective practices up which creates a weird dynamic that sometimes feels like they’re on the offensive/defensive, so I can’t tell whether that was intentional or not.
Netanyahu showed a map in the conference just weeks ago where the was no Gaza in it. He ignored Egypt warning so he can wipe Gaza. That’s why his being so brutal.
I'm very glad I subscribed. Harari gives me HOPE. And now, with their lives enriched by their experiences (good and bad) Stewart and Campbell have never been as needed as they are now. I've never voted conservative (and only labour years ago) but Rory Stewart's decency made me wish he'd stayed in politics. I don't care for the party, I was swayed by a sense of him as a cautious, compassionate and humble individual. If we don't need THOSE qualities in national leadership in the UK (not to mention the Israeli / Palestine issue) then I don't know what we do need.
@@lizroberts1569 True enough. I've done two years as a Parish Councillor in my village and it's been an absolutely bruising experience. I can't imagine scaling up the abuse to the level of national politics!
@@angrydoggy9170 They didn't go into details of the atrocities against the Palestinians: (dirty restricted drinking water, calorie restricted diet, illegal settlements with settler violence, armed intrusion into Palestinian homes, without evidence of crimes etc. That kind of violence which is air-brushed by the mass media of the Western world.
I didn't agree with Rory Stewart on Brexit, but he's a great asset right now in terms of understanding an appalling situation, and we are lucky to have him.
I am a huge admirer of Prof. Yuval Harari's work. Thank you for discussing such a complex conflict. Thank you Mr Stuart and Mr Campbel for given us such an informative, mind bending perspective on this terrible conflict. It is very sad to see so many lives in such senseless and brutal way. Peace on this planet please.
A nation's right to defend itself is clear and right. However, the right to take and destroy the lives of those incidentally living in an area where their enemies come from is not. Which is why it is stated in international law to be a war crime. Imagine if you, say living in London, were told you have 24 hours to leave before an enemy of Britain starts bombing 'in order to defend itself' is that a legitimate position to take. And the world stands back and says "well they do have the right to defend themselves against British aggression. I'm old enough to remember the IRA issuing warnings before bombing here on the mainland... I don't recall the world standing by saying they support their right to do that. I can't think of any other region in the world where a country would be given free range to destroy an enclave and the people contained there... Simple as that.
It’s shameful to hear that there is only finger pointing in the beginning And then it continues on through out, even when the questions are asked the answers begins and ends with the horrific attacks of Hamas. You certainly aren’t going to begin the conversation by demanding the condemnation of Hamas attacks but not condemning the actions of IDF which should be held to much higher standards since it’s operated by a democratically elected government
This really increased my clarity and understanding of the situation with Israelis and Palestinians in the region; thank you Yuval! I do agree that the UN, the West and Arab nations need to be instrumental in getting back to a peaceful solution in the coming decade, or however long it takes.
i don't think you are even close of understanding this conflict. israel has succeeded to make you believe that they are not occupiers. go search Nelson Mandela view on Palestine instead of taking propaganda from a citizen of occupiers
the world!+ 30 This is the one about whom I said: ‘Behind me there comes a man who has advanced in front of me, for he existed before me.’+ 31 Even I did not know him knowledge+ 8 For we do not want you to be unaware, brothers, of the tribulation we experienced in the province of Asia.+ We were under extreme pressure beyond our own strength, so that we were very uncertain even of our lives 11 You also can help us by your supplication for us,+ in order that many may give thanks in our behalf for twche favor we receive in answer to the prayers of many and God chose the insignificant things of the world and the things looked down on, the things that are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,+ 29
@@chief_9938 right, cuz nelson is the one who you chose to make the most sense go do research yourself I love how there are so many people in this world who arent even aware of the wars Israel had to survive from day 0 after becoming a country and doing so by the world rules.
@@chief_9938c him i what foretold one +7 They want to be teachers+ of law, but they do to us wisdom from God, also righteousness+ and sanctification+ and release by ransom,+ 31 so that it may be just as it is written: “The one who boasts, let him boast in Jehovah.
So much insight. So scary that pandemic, war, etc. instead of calling us together in common interests divides us further; it’s almost as if we spurn the opportunity these times of crisis present us to work toward the liberal global order; instead we seem to be embracing division and the looming threat of global conflict where no one wins. Thanks for this thoughtful discussion
That is because the liberal world order was never unifying, nor based on common interests, but always, as is the point of liberalism, an order of exploitation and hierarchy based on wealth. A world order that truly aimed at well being and prosperity for all would not have generated such conflicts. If conflicts arise within a state of affairs, they arise because of that state of affairs, not in spite of it.
@@aninewforest Neither of those is the definition of liberal in this context. In fact the first one isn't intrinsically related to "liberalism" at all. Liberal, in this context, is: "Relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise." That's what John is talking about, the classical definition of liberalism, established in the Enlightenment and used to build **the entire world you live in today** -- where there is less poverty, less death, less suffering, less disease, less starvation, less war, better science, better education, more literacy, more rights for women, minorities, immigrants, children, and the disabled -- all of that is a product of the Western post-Enlightenment Liberal World Order. That's what John is telling you, that we're squabbling over petty differences while not working to preserve that liberal global order.
I think he is absolutely wrong when he speaks about the progress for peace in the region. Settlements are continuing to be constructed in the West Bank. Settler violence against Palestinians occurs almost daily. It seems, sadly, Yuval condemns one kind of political violence while allowing another. What he says about Hamas could easily be said about the correct Israeli government, both want to wipe the state of the other off the map. Peace will be with the Palestinians, not Gulf monarchs. As seen in the World Cup, the people of those states do not support these peace treaties and they are the one that will need to be won over eventually.
Another fact, if Gazans saw an option for a peaceful settlement they would take it and Hamas would be gone. All Israel needs to do is make concessions to the Gazans people and Hamas would be gone. The
agreed, hes just trying to push the muh Hamas, hamas owned the IDF fair and square, and they keep trying to say if was some event targetting civilians where there is zero eveidence.. where are the 40 babies? where are the door to door killings he talks about? Yes civlians died but it looks like collateral damage rather than some bloodlust targeting and we dont know from which side until investigated. Apartheid states create violence, who created the aparthied state? @@thomaslawless2573
@@thomaslawless2573 You are complete wrong here, Hamas would not cease tro exist over night, Hamad Al-Regeb called for “annihilation” and “paralysis” of the Jews whom he described as filthy animals" - coming from a chief Hamas spokes person in 2023.
Exactly! It is now important to analyze in detail the financial aspect of this conflict and make it accessible to the Palestinian public. The self-enrichment of the Hamas ruling elite, the millions of dollars in funds that international aid organizations have made available to the Palestinian public and which are being misused by the Hamas ruling elite; This truth will open the eyes of the international public to the true and dirty background of this catastrophe!
If this is indeed a war of the mind and soul, then Israel has already lost if gives in to its collective anger and takes Hamas' bait to effectively raze Gaza City to rubble. There has to be smarter and more strategic ways to deal with Hamas and their ilk.
What would you suggest? They pay their people to kill Jews. This is not a symmetrical conflict over land. That's a lie. There are not two sides. There are those who wish to kill Jews because they are Jews, there are those who use children as shields and as militants themselves, there are those who tell us directly "we love death like you love life." The charter of Hamas, democratically elected by the Palestinians, states that wherever you find a Jew, you must kill them. Their stated goal is a second Holocaust. They deny the first ever happened, but they swear to carry out the second. They are, at base, a Nazi death cult. The biggest lie of all is the two sides narrative. I think this testimony should be witnessed by all: th-cam.com/video/NSaY4k2CEZo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ohuKC4u7RFQD8USF
@@sdeichemed End the theocratic ethno-state. Allow the decedents of the 700,000 Palestinians that were driven out of now Israel during the 1948 war (who, btw, still don't have citizenship and still live in what are essentially refugee camps) to return to their rightful homes as equal citizens with full rights as citizens of an Israel-Palestine nation. Allow them to have a say in that democracy. Absorb Gaza. Come to a border agreement with State of Palestine (or agreement to unify if Palestinians there wish it). One state. Democratic. Equal between Muslims and Jews (and anyone else). But the Israelis will never give up their ethno-state.
@@sdeichemedby starting a negotiation that involves freedom and equal rights for Palestinians. It's impossible to have a democracy if one religion or race has superior rights. Israelis need to give up on this utopian dream of having a state without ever having to humanely deal with the problem of the original native population - in the same way white South Africans had to - Australia, Canada and the USA also went through this process, and are still dealing with it to various degrees.
The conversation at about 20 minutes is extremely relevant to Americans as well right now. A version of this could easily represent our future if we can't dispense with the lies.
From a TRIP point of view, it is important to hear and listen to as many different perspectives as possible. Find some of our other videos on the matter here:
- Rory's Historical Explainer: th-cam.com/video/xAs5EOBUDcs/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
- The Palestinian Perspective: th-cam.com/video/AtsTsCFxrNI/w-d-xo.htmlfeature=shared
Talk about disrespecting Holocaust victims.
This is nothing like that. How dare they.
Yeah, beause I still think now, that the genocides are of a UN Allies, mobs Part 1 = the European Jews reduced and then changed when placed into Israel, as they were not accepted as refugees ww2 era, why? Because gas and oil right under the Gaza strip, had the UN allies KNOWN THAT THEN???
AND PART B: PALESTINIAN ESPECIALLY GAZA STRIP GENOCIDE,APARTHEID. JUST LIKE THE JEWS IN EUROPE WERE ALWAYS BLAMED AND GHETTOIZED.
YET- HAMAS AND OCT.7, IS QUITE AN ISOLATED ISSUE TO ME. COMPARED THOUGH TO WHAT MY POINT IS, NOT THAT THE PREVIOUS HAMAS terror events are unimportant, of course, but Hamas as nearly its own issue or another issue. Whatever else is involved, maybe with cia?
So glad we have access to these types of discussions. It gives a glimmer of hope at a very sad time in the world.
Glimmer of hope? Israel kills Palestinians ALL THE TIME. Why no news? Sure, Israel got attacked, but Palestinians are having their homes attacked ALL the time. Pssst, why is 40% of Palestinians under the age of 15? Where did everyone else go? Surely, adults should should out number the "under 15" by more than 60% of population? Check out age spread in ANY COUNTRY. Glimmer of hope, is believing Israeli lies.
The story about the family that organised the kite festival was heart-breaking. So much suffering. The pain of Palestinians and Israelis is immense. I feel for both sides and hope there can be healing for all innocent people that have become embroiled in this horrific ordeal.
Hmmm, set up a lawn chair and watch your military mortar people in fenced off area...SORRY, ones a first world country, the other has even basic building supplies available. Sure, murder is murder, but one is WAY worse then the other. Killing Palestinians is like shooting fish in a barrel... SORRY, Im not buying the victim narrative being woven by the Israelis.
For FURTHER info, check out the West Bank, pssst no hamas. Israel just buses people in to take tours of homes occupied by Palestinian multi generational homes...then they get to have it. WATCH THE TH-cam VIDEOS...meanwhile, Israel can NOT do the same in Gaza. WHY? People that are crazy enough to fight back will shoot them.
STOP believing the lies.
Want a doozey. Google the defenition of "Semitic". It turns out the ARABS are ALSO semitic...but being "anti" Semitic can only happen against the Jews? Why?
Flying kites? That's all they can do in the "only democracy" in the middle east? This is classic colonial thinking!
@@AShah1313
The peace of Israelis is bound to the peace and wellbeing of Palestinians.
It's not correct to refer to Israel as a democracy. They have consistently violated international law and I hope that the horror of these past events will lead to some serious leadership in Israel.
That's all I can say. I have more sympathy broadly with Palestinians, because objectively they have faced more persecution in this relationship.
It's not fair to call this a war. This is a slaughter that Israel is inflicting on the people of Gaza and the west need to be doing everything they can to stop it.
That being said, no one can persuade me that Israeli lives don't matter too and I wish those innocent lives had been left out of this.
Take care.
@@corndoggydogdog flying kites from the land stolen from Palestinians even by the borders of 1948 is not solidarity. It's mockery of the Palestinians who are stuffed in that small strip of an open air concentration camp. And Yuval thinks of it as the nicest and purest of human interaction!
Do you know how many in Gaza die monthly due to lack of treatment? I can tell you that in a single year, kids die of diseases treatable and curable in other parts of the world more than the entire casualties of this massacre! But those don't even count!
@@corndoggydogdog when you have not lived terrorism, it is impossible to understand. I lived it. In Peru we have Shining Path. They killed 6,000 from the Ashaninkas tribe in the Amazonan jungle with machetes. Google it. So in Peru the left says they are social warriors and they are free meanwhile many soldiers are still on trial for killing them. So my question to you is which side do you support? Google it. We still have terrorists indoctrinating children preparong them for another popular war. Nothing the government can do and soon the children will grow and another 70,000 peruvians innocent will die.
We need more discussions like this, whereby the central concern is to eradicate human suffering.
Thank You, Yuval and the panel of Thie Rest Is Politics.
I feel a sense of relief to hear that someone makes sense in all of this madness. Thank you so much Yuval.
He's a psychopath
@@freedomforall236 no you and hamas are
A tiny historical-contextual detail, which can be illustrative of the complexity of what lies behind this terrible situation. At 13:53 Rory mentions Carlos Marighella, just stating that he was a "Brazilian terrorist", no further explanation given. One important thing to note is that Marighella was fighting against an oppressive military dictatorship that persecuted, tortured, and killed its opposition (even students who peacefully protested). Now, Marighela and his group did employ violent, 'guerrilla' tactics, which included kidnapping and killing who they considered to be enemies, and they did want a communist revolution and not a "liberal democracy" as an end goal. They were, though, fighting a regime that was indeed violent and oppressive.
That's relevant to the present discussion, in my opinion, because it brings forth the need to think about the complexities, nuances and make differentiations. What Hamas did is absolutely unacceptable. Attacking civilians is a crime, and there's no justification for it. However, the context that allows for it to happen is an occupation that takes away rights and freedoms from the Palestinian population and forces them into dreadful and unsustainable living situations and hardships. The Israeli state has been responsible for numerous violent attacks against civilians too, and what is being done in Gaza now is nothing but a brutal war crime.
The main concepts here to differentiate are "understanding" and "justifying". I understand Marighella's motivation, I don't justify some of his actions. I can fully understand the Palestinian's appalling conditions and motivation to resort to any means to change it. I don't (would never) justify Hama's criminal actions. I understand the Israeli population's fear, shock and even wish for justice. I will never justify and accept what the Israeli government is presently doing. One evil doesn't make another one rightful. If one's values are humanist, the only coherent stance is to condemn both, and then try to find a peaceful solution that doesn't just perpetuate hate and violence, as hard as that may be. Hamas (and Netanyahu) may not ever be interested in peace, but there are many Palestinian and Israeli people who are. Accepting actions that make them suffer even more is not a way to achieve that goal.
Exactly, don't condone it, but understand where it's coming from !
After reading many of the disgusting reactionary comments on various sections of the Internet regarding this situation, it's reassuring to know that there are many people still capable of calm, objective and constructive thinking.
Thanks for that.
Excellent comment
So well said. Saying you condemn Hama AND understand the context should not be controversial.
How about the context of why Gaza is in the situation it is in? Its constant attacks over decades against Israelis, it's decision not to develop self rule and peaceful thriving once Israel left the territory but instead to become a nest of terrorism? Gaza had not been under occupation since 2005. It HAS been under siege due to the ever present danger it presents. Those wondering what danger need only turn to the atrocities last week
This is a brilliant discussion and Noah Yuval Harari is so composed while obviously so consumed by grief. Thank you for this. We must have hope but every side cannot act properly in the face of this horror and pain. It’s so complex. This is so enlightening 🕊️💔
Indeed. And indeed heartbreaking.
"When you lose faith in humanity, you lose your own humanity."
Such a tragic situation.
Interesting. I'm a born-again misanthrope, but it's because I've witnessed such virtue and intelligence among nonhuman lifeforms that I can no longer maintain a belief in human uniqueness.
@@aninewforest
I agree wholeheartedly. Our species offers the planet absolutely nothing. We have no business here…period.
Thank you for saying this!
I always wonder what is the solution to this. There has to be one otherwise we will have a genocide on our hands. I dont think palistaine will get its recognition as UK and US although say a two state solution should happen dont put any pressure on Isreal and i dont see Israel even lifting the apartheid and recognising Palestinians as equal. I have a bad feeling about this reminds me of world war 2 but this time Israel UK and US on one side against a whole lot of others or maybe not its been happening for 100 years now.
you don't lose faith in humanity. and you don't lose your own. humanity. you have seen evil before. this is the evil of radical islam being revealed. it will result in its full destruction.
Yuval said something extremely important, pertinent and simple in that we all are/can be victims AND perpetrators at the same time. Also, it's impossible at this time for Israelis and Palestinians to grasp this as they are both in immense pain. As observers, the rest of the world needs to understand this. The people in the region are in unimaginable pain.
Compared with the unimaginable pajn of Muslims in Syria and Yemen and the sheer scale of their torture, starvation and deaths imposed by ither Muslims, the pain of Gazans is not even close to that of other Muslims in the region, awful though it is. Having Israel as an enemy when it tries so hard to minimise casualties, is light years better than having Muslim Enemies. When the US and the iniquitous UN impose a higher standard on Israel than they did on the US and all muslim countries, there is little hope. Let Israel win
Palestinians are not in pain as we understand it . Death is a big part of Islam in the quest to spread the charya and the uma
Both sides have pain. Hamasites are driven by blind HATRED and the desire for genocide. BIG DIFFERENCE!
Thank you for creating a space that allows calm discussion of matters that carry such an emotional overload. My respect for you groes with each episode
So you want "calm discussion without emotional overload" ?
*The death toll in Israel has reached 1,300, around 3,000 wounded, 150 were taken captive*
In this slaughter 40 babies and children were killed in their bedrooms some of them beheaded, Hamas sub-humans beheaded soldiers, raped women, and burned Israelis alive.
Those Islamist in an ISIS-like manner burned people alive, raped victims and shot babies in the head, they opened the belly of pregnant women and let the baby out dragged after her.
*Men, women, children, hands bound, shot, executed, heads cut, They killed babies in front of their parents, and then killed the parents. They killed parents - sheer horror*
The Jewish people had not endured anything like this since the Holocaust - *not in war, not a battlefield... a massacre* !!
*Would you do "calm discussion" with the ones who raped your wife, get your baby out of her womb, dragging it like that all the way to Gaza* ?
Has humanity lost it's mind , or is it just you and alike ?
Eat on ok on way
Isaiah 51:9 not to forget you will drink Jesus say drink
Keep following me, and let 9 And this is what I continue praying, that your love may abound still more and more+ with accurate knowledge+ and full discernment;+ 10 that you may make sure of the more important things,+ so that you may be flawless and not stumbling others+ up to the day of Christ; 11
9 Awake! Awake! their dead. eat or what you yourself with bury their dead strength, O arm of Jehovah! Awake as in the days of long ago, as in past generations. says, ‘unclean No, the living son clean
Was it 12
Now I want you to know, brothers, that my situation has actually turned out for the advancement of the good news, 7
And our hope for you is unwavering, knowing as we do that just as you share in the sufferings, so you will also share in the comfort.+for the sake of Christ have become
LOL. Yuval praises the West's puppet Zelensky, he despises Putin who called out the West's hypocricy and degeneracy, he praises Israel and doesn't call out it's occupation, cruel rule and failure to provide water before Hammas carried out it's atrocious attacks. Hammas is bad but hey look at the others.
@@davidantonucci1161 Religion is what made this mess, fool!
I grew up in a Muslim country, that try very hard to amplify all the atrocities to wards Palestine by The neighbouring Israel. I’m old now and I only begin to understand a little of what is actually going on. I feel sorry for all sides involved. Helpless, is the true description.
I know what you mean, friend - maybe one day the son of an Israeli settler and the son of a Hamas fighter will be able to share a coffee and say to each other "My father was wrong." I still hope so. 😢
If you’ve lived there you start to realise over time exactly what is happening.
Sometimes it takes a lifetime to see what is happening in this crazy world. We are all helpless my friend. 😔
@@MeeesterBond17 There are no Israeli settlers in Gaza.
@@nealorr5086Gaza is real Palestine where the immigrant Palestinians or Philastines first settled about 3500 years ago. The big problem is the rejection of the two states solution. They just wanted to remove Israel as a state.
Could you interview Muhammed Dajani on this subject? He is a moderate voice in the conflict who organizes Holocaust education excursions for Palestinian students at Al Quds uni. He is an extremely important advocate for empathy and normalisation in the conflict.
i would love to see that, someone who could also speak for the palastinians and advocate for peace
I concur. We need to hear from the moderates and kick the religious fanatics and extremists --and anyone who can look at pictures of murdered six-year-olds on either side without compassion --entirely out of the conversation
@@hgrenm Dajani supports Israel, very few Palestinians do. If you think the IDF will be welcome as liberators then you are simply insane.
@@hgrenm with all due respect, that side is all we hear about online.
To learn more about the evil sex cult of Islam, please follow the following; Ahmed exMuslim, Ex Muslims Saint Murad, Nuriyah Khan, Adam Seeker, CIRA International, Christian Prince, Osama Dakdok, Rob Christian, Hatun Tash DCCI Ministries, Muhammad Faridi and Sam Shamoun among others.
It's valuable to hear the Israeli perspective on the suffering and pain in the region. I would also like to request @restispolitics to invite a Palestinian representative to the discussion. This way, we can ensure a balanced conversation by understanding both sides of the story.
But Palestinian side just spouts lies. Is that balanced reporting? I’d be ok with that if next to that speaker every time the speak lie correct fact is written beside them
U seem to be Bangladesh...i understand n feel the same pain you feel about Palestinians n Jews caught in this conflict...no matter what people shouldn't be persecuted based on one's faith ...why don u jus shed some light continuing persecution of Hindus living in Islamic Bangladesh? What is it about Islam that non-muslims are treated like second class citizens jus coz of their religion? Why this much of hatred for non-muslims???
You don't even need a Palestinian: Ilan Pappe or Norm Finkelstein would just do.
@@prashantchachadi6896 people will only need to buy a ticket to Bangladesh and can see for themselves how people of different religions live together in Bangladesh . I usually do not reply to people's comments on TH-cam but I felt I needed to this time .People always criminalise Muslims or Islam, yet I hardly see any Muslim person hurting others by directly attacking other people's religion, making hurtful comments. In my life time, I have seen Muslim countries invaded by foreign military, innocent civilians bombed, displaced but people are clearly still not happy with it. It is still the Muslims turn out to be the bad guys . The invaders are the good guys. If Muslim countries are so horrible, why so many people go to the gulf countries to work there. None of those countries are dragging people from other countries to go and work for them. Ever since the horrific attack of October, every Muslim commentator showed compassion to both sides. There's no peace in this world because people do not judge people's actions, but instead judge people's religion, ethnicity etc.
@@prashantchachadi6896 I am Indian.
Thank you for allowing this wise and balanced conversation about a very difficult situation. It really does help.
Online and on tv there is suddenly an abundance of people asking the question, what were hamas thinking?
and in the absence of any representative from them, unadulterated hypothetical speculation.
Looking back to the Good Friday peace agreement,
and at the time, the ira being voice-dubbed when asked for their view on the respective latest car bombing etc.
And yet the radical decision by the blair government was to talk directly.
As long as one resorts to the personal understanding of someone so far removed from the people who are the subject of this mountain of speculation, second guesses and chinese whispers, it effectively guarantees misunderstanding and attributing views etc to the people who are the subject inaccurately and misrepresentative.
For such an extreme set of atrocities, as heinous, evil and despicable as they were, and as worthy of all of our condemnation as it is, it was nevertheless an operation carried out by people who, by the admission of the israeli government, for those hours, was successful in so far as it defeated the security system which purportedly exists to ensure such a disaster never occurs, rather than occupy its time with sniping stone throwing children.
Taking nothing away from that, is it possible that a fundamental problem is the colour blindness and tin ear deafness to the multiple decades long slaughter of civilians on the part of the palestinians?
Is it possible that, to contradict the guest speaker who you’ve titled “liberal”, there in fact is a difference in the scale of the suffering and who has paid a bigger price (as result of the active involvement of the israeli government, not as a result of some phenomenon of nature, like the tide or spring following winter), the suffering is exponentially greater in scale on the side of the occupied, not the occupier, in simple empirical arithmetical terms.
It’s inconvenient for the guest to acknowledge, but the numbers counted by the UN for all to see, speak for themselves.
As for immolation alive, decapitation etc, what does one imagine the white phosphorus bombs do to the inhabitants of the city blocks and residential apartment blocks being targeted?
What does one imagine are the effects of high explosive projectiles on human bodies, sans iron dome or other defensive hardware?
We are left to imagine, again, in a total vacuum, as these atrocities are reported in olympic gold level banal, anodyne, broadest of watercolour brush strokes, but these atrocities are ongoing, right now, in our name, as members of the community of democratic nations.
The UN have outlined in plain terms that the collective punishment that is being perpetrated is illegal, an active ongoing war crime, prima facie, and day in day out press spokesmen and government ministers simply repeat the chanted mantra that israel has the right to defend itself.
What is being done consciously to the civilian population of gaza in effect trapping any civilian incapable of moving quickly enough, bed ridden, life-support machine connected or not, with no ambulances or useable roads upon which to drive them, is a casually placed death sentence for a minimum of hundreds, likely thousands of people.
If we ever emerge from this time and this doesn’t escalate in ways and a scale we didn’t anticipate, this will go down as one of the worst moral failures and incompetent periods of international relations in human history.
Wall to wall bluddy idiotic 'experts' about - self-indulgent self-satisfying foghorns.
Well said sir we need to sit down and talk alas America and it's puppet allies will not have this
There's no solution to this because the chief protagonists on both sides have incrementally reverted to fundamentals rooted in ancient history. One bunch wear military garb or medieval attire and are dismissed as terrorists though they're probably something worse as even traditional terrorists had an ideology of resolution to their cause. The other bunch rooted in ancient fundamentals wear suits, present themselves as slick 21st century politicians and align themselves with the supposed civilized world who appease their presumptuous self evaluation.
It's simple, there cannot and will never be a resolution to this mutual barbarism as long as the chief protagonists are rooted in vitriolic ideologies dating back to ancient times whether they wear military garb or medieval attire or clean shaven and in suits. There cannot be a resolution to this conflict as long as the wider world continues to respectfully indulge and dignify this mutual medieval reenactment society with a 21st century frame of reference they do not warrant.
@@roboi2241 One doesn’t have to go back to medieval times … 70 years is sufficient enough to know that Israel CONSCIOUSLY planned the elimination of the Palestinians BEFORE they ever stepped one foot onto the land of PALESTINE.
Israel, pathetically, reaches back to BIBLICAL times to JUSTIFY their atrocities upon INNOCENT people, people who CAN no longer be innocent because of the devastation of their culture, land, livelihood and family.
They want their land and respect back. 75 years of an apartheid occupation is a bit too much. Israel just wants Palestine off the planet, and now Netanyahu is the agent of WWIII. It's weird to see apartheid coming from a people who faced genocide. I am not saying the loss of life is ok on both sides, but imagine being occupied for this long?
It must be noted that Netanyahu pursued policies that were intentionally designed to strengthen the power of Hamas as a counter to the power of the Palestinian Authority and Abbas who have remained committed to a two-state solution. That policy opened up channels for money to flow from Arab states to Hamas.
Also, it has been reported that Netanyahu's government received intelligence from Egypt that Hamas was planning an attack weeks before it occurred.
There is a good reason that Israeli citizens were stunned at the security "failure", because it should not have happened to begin with.
They weren't violent and were constituted of lawyers, doctors, and professors. It was a very different Hamas. The fatah and Hamas ideologies switched, much like Republican/Democrat in america. Please do not fall for incomplete narratives. The full story is out there to be found.
@@djon3043
Kindly do not spread disinformation. It does extreme harm and is an impediment to peace. Israeli officials, including Brigadier General Yitzak Segev and Israeli official Avner Cohen warned their superiors not to feed the monster that was Hamas in the 1980s, to no avail. At the time, the secular PLO were advocating for Palestinians. Hamas were not in power.
I keep thinking about how could Israeli security measures fail?
What if it was intentionally set to fail?
Why?
How would Gaza and Israel be effected, if Israel retaliated?
Israelis should push hard for an immediate investigation...they may well be surprised/dismayed/angry at the results.
Hizbollah allready on action , Israel has bombed Syria . Looking bad. Then when Iran chimes in.... Ww3 stuff😢
Flick: excellent point! Lets blame Netanyahu!
An absolutely fantastic and enlightening interview. One sentence really struck a cord: when you lose faith in humanity, you lose your humanity. That is such a deep and profound statement. The fact is that parts of Israel society and Palestinian society have lost their humanity due to their histories. Both sides are simply motivated by fear.
It is obscene to say that any part of Israeli society has lost its humanity. The human animals who committed the attrocities against Israelis on 7 October are the ones who have lost their humanity and have placed themselves on the level of the Germans and their accomplices during the Shoah. It is also obscene to say that those human animals who committed the attrocities on 7 October were motivated by fear. They were motivated by sheer hatred.
The warrior of transhumanism speaking about humanity? Just my sense oh humor!
@@lenacohen8913 Well, because there's no way we can reach a stage above what we have now as humans if we're still mired in trauma.
No, One is a settler colonial apartheid state committing genocide, The other is an indigenous oppressed people fighting for their land. Its very basic.
@@jamesjohnson2394 Learn History!
Thank you for educating those of us who don't have a full understanding of this heart-wrenching matter. May there be peace soon.💔
i mean this is wall to wall, deliberate and expert propaganda. And you just inhaled it like the easily lulled nub that you are.
I highly recommend spreading this video far and wide to all because it's important to see.
I love open dialogue. The guest made an interesting comment, each side is trying to draw attention to their immense pain. Everyone wants their immense pain to be acknowledged, including myself. To acknowledge another's immense pain requires empathy.
Yes, and here both sides seem to be refusing to show any empathy for the other. Hamas is oppressing, abusing and exploiting its own people, all the while screaming we want to kill Jews and destroy Israel. Israeli leadership has basically imprisoned Palestinians in Gaza for decades, taken their homes for settlers, controlled access to food, water, electricity, and healthcare, responded out of proportion to Palestinian resistance (e.g. responding to kids' rock throwing with automatic gunfire), and as a result of this attack is calling all Palestinians (not just Hamas) combatants and "human animals". It's impossible to see any hope for peace with those attitudes.
I came across this podcast after subscribing to The Rest Is Football. Really glad I did. What a thoughtful, insightful, fascinating discussion.
I heard your previous episode & it was incredibly insightful to help a lay person understand. I can’t say that I understand everything now, but at least I can see the multifaceted nature of this situation. Unlike what we’re hearing from basic news or social media which is bifurcated….one side or the other. The conversation at large for people outside of the region has become too simplistic & charged to have a meaningful conversation.
It is very simple. Most non islamic but fully islamised countries around the area want peace because of economic reasons. These countries are governed by kings or presidents. Not islamic leaders. These countries officially want peace, but the street, full of muslims, don't want jews in their backyard. The terrorist organisations are full of these people. Only iran is run by religious people.
The terrorists and iran want the jews dead. The countries governed by halfway secular reasonable money loving people are watching, not taking sides to avoid fueling their people's anger.
Also, israel house a few million jews, surrounded by millions upon millions of people wanting them erased. It means israel canot use proportionate force, as trading 1 for 1 means they would be wiped out and muslims would survive. And muslims are ok to sacrifice themselves. Israel have to become a bully to survive.
You can look at the conflict in a historical or military perspective. In both cases, israel is the good guy.
2000 years ago, palestine was named judea because it was the land of the jews. If you defend the right of indigenous people, you should defend israel. They have been chased away multiple times, they are the victims there.
And if you think history should no be the framework, well, israel is here now and it is defending itself.
If you are an american, the fact that people are supporting what happened saturday should be bone chilling for you. Because this is what they think about when they talk about anti colonialism. Sometimes, politics become reality.
The media wants us to be polarized and pick a side depending on who we identify with. That's the sad reality on both sides.
Welcome to the Internet. Nuance and complexity? Not here, mate
It’s really not difficult unlike the self-flagellating egotistical masturbation on display here.
Women raped and babies beheaded are pretty easy to condemn without making excuses for genocide and the ethnic cleansing of Jews.
How’s that for “nuance”?
Internet is just a reflection of how most think in teal life, always dividing everything into black and white.
So appreciative that Rory and Alisdair pose a question and stand down to allow their guest to respond fully. Deep respect to Yuval Noah Harari for his profound penetration of entangled issues while not making this personal, while acknowledging the limits of his authority and problem solving. Respect, gentlemen.
Well said
You can't know Mr Harari very well if you regard to him as profound.
I thank you for thanking these guys so beautifully❤
@@fishmud3264
I doubt you know him at all. Only what some idiot told you.
There was no decapitation of baby's. Israeli government told that it can not confirm this. Why use fake news as examples?
There is a Palestinian called MUSA ALAMI (educated in Cambridge) and his story (which is fascinating) was written in a book entitled "Palestine is My Country" by Sir Geoffrey Furlonge. He sets out the Arab side of this "horror" and how there were times when talks helped this difficult dilemma but agreements never seem to last. The British made so many "mistakes" in this volatile land and it is partly our fault it is so fraught with upheavals and disagreements.
Britain, you cause chaos and discord everywhere you go. You messed up big time in Israel.
There's still discord and intercommunal violance in India 70 years after the creation of Pakistan and independence. The different communities were there before the British arrived in India@@Jfwqs7212
„Partly our fault“ 😂
@@nizzie16Partly Britain's fault is pretty accurate. The primary thing Britain did was to not allow the creation of a purely Arab state after taking the land from the Ottoman Empire. Their first suggestion was to grant 20% of the land of present day Israel to the Jews, but it was rejected by the Arabs.
Fast forward to the creation of Israel, and it was the Jews who paid for, fought and won that war of independence. Not the UK.
The west does share some blame, but certainly not much of it. The Arabs refused to allow a Jewish state (very arguably their right), and they lost two wars to enforce their wishes.
You lose the war and you lose the right to get your way. That's pretty much it.
The pattern. Germany got destroyed so was japan at same time. China historically. But they came back to normalcy. Compare this to the ME and countries like syria and afghanistan. The problem is that certain cultures lack the abality to homeostasis. We should work to heal and not to show the wound as badge.
The only solution I see is to disperse Israelis into west and make the current isrel a park. Send all gazans to ME.
We can blame britain for this but for how long? The british empire was simply good at exploiting existing fault lines and exagerating them. They did not create these faults they existed for millennia.
This is not a solvalble problem because these cultures have lost homeostasis.
Thank you for this brilliant interview. Such a rate moment of sanity amid all the mess
Thank you for this thoughtful dialogue and a shred of hope of what could be possible. ❤
As a Canadian viewer and a regular viewer of your podcast I would like to offer you a challenge. I enjoy your debate and insights and found Tavul interesting. I would therefore like to hear a discussion with Dr.Gabor Mate or Norman Finklestien. I have heard both their voices and I find that is the purpose of of voices. We all have something to say. Thank you
Exactly what I would love to see in this show. I have been following Dr.Gabor Mate, and just seen his video about the situation there.
I don't think either Gabor Mate or Norman Finllestein have lived in Israel/ Palestine. They would be terrible as guests.
Gabour Mate is very one sided on this issue, is that why you want him on the show ?
Agreed. The people invited here are sympathetic to the state of Israel and the Zionist project
@@haselbasil2488 have you watched his video on the situation?
I don't agree with your description of a one-sided commentary
A good interview. With reservations. There are many decent people in Israel whose voices are never heard. Offering them an opportunity to speak would be good. Can you also offer an opportunity for Palestinian voices? Husam Zomlot and Hanan Ashrawi would be perfect. As you said, it's about the politicians. But it's not the politicians who suffer the worst consequences of their own decisions.
The very very last word that fits him is decent
@@annshenton119 The world would be a better place without either (Florence of Arabia and Harari) of these anti-human creatures.
That man has said some horrible things about controlling people with technology like robots…pure evil who sees himself above all others.
With respect those Palestine voices dominate all our mainstream media. Their views are the views of our mainstream socialist parties: Greens, Labour, SNP etc. - they have been for decades if not for a century.
He's a devil, not a decent man; I sympathise with Israel, but not that vile monster for all that he advocates on behalf of Schwab et al.
We shouldn't allow Hamas to win the war on our souls.
Most important sentence of the interview.
Thank you
The West once again makes the mistake like in the Vietnam War, they got into the trap of the "cunning, dirty" tricks of the guerilla side, which is the only way they can deal with a strong army. They got into the West's native mind and played the victim card so well. The result of the Vietnam war as you know, is that Communism controls the land, and many people have to live in a non-democratic country, Vietnam is playing a double card between China and the US. Once again, the US like a rich guy but carry a soft mind when dealing with bandits and got kicked by them. Good job, America, you are creating another big population on your "enemy" list!
It should be said that for so many of us who are not Jews, these days are truly horrific, like ashes in the mouth, and nothing can be enjoyed, no pleasures really experienced, happiness is banished as we contemplate the unimaginably foul and terrifying agony visited on gentle people, be they men, women, children. God help us all.
All this happens and STILL people babble about imaginary gods? Belief in different imaginary gods is the core of this conflict..🤷♂️
@@AndyCampbellMusicexactly, the root of the problem is religious fanaticism
@@theshrubbereryes but if not religion people would find other reasons to fight , it is unfortunately in our nature. 😢
Fuck god and anyone who chooses irrationality over reason.
@@barbaraissahary1327true but the religious fanaticism makes it impossible to reach a compromise
For counterpoint invite Husam Said Zomlot (born 1973) is a Palestinian diplomat, academic and economist. He was appointed Head of the Palestinian Mission to the United Kingdom in October 2018. He's been on Amanpour and has been slandered by Kay Burley (on othewise evenhanded Sky) regarding his insights, which will give a sparky intro to your discussion.
What an amazing interview. This is the best I've heard about Israel and Palestine in forever.
Deep respect for this man
who for???
I have lost all trust in humanity, even in my own.
I find myself torn between feelings of compassion and revenge.
I regret those feelings and thoughts of revenge and then I fall into feelings of hopelessness and despair.
My heart breaks into pieces and yet my blood boils with rage!
My instinct is to love but I am overwhelmed by hate.
We must avoid falling into this trap.
We must overcome the evil that is trying to kill our souls.
We must be kind to each other, cos there is no more room for suffering.
That's correct
I feel much the same as you. It is understandable that Israel has reacted the way it has. The attack by Hamas terrorists is utterly inexcusable. I don’t pretend to fully understand the history behind it, but matching extreme violence by terrorists will not solve anything. I think back to the bombing of Baghdad by the USA/UK and their NATO allies during the 2nd gulf war. It solved nothing and, similar to the bombing of Gaza, it killed hundreds of innocent civilians.
Revenge and rage for who and directed to who? It seems many believe this problem starts and stops with what Hamas do and ignore the day to day oppression for the past 70 years. Incredible
bellissimo
I‘ve been reflecting on past history and recovery . I’m glad you discussed this. “A higher responsibility of politicians” is a valuable concept.
The odds that Netanyahu & the unhinged nationalists in his government will suddenly start acting responsibly are zero, & each of these 3 gentlemen knows it...
youd think britain should take some responsibility. they gave away this land that was never theres while pillaging the middle east for resources
Jewish and Christian populations have been ethnically cleansed from much of the Middle East…the once thriving Jewish communities of Syria…Iraq…Lebanon…Egypt…North Africa…are no more…the Christian Coptic community which predates Islam in Egypt…is much reduced and often suffers church bombing and murder…Christians in Pakistan are regularly attacked and young Cristian lasses kidnapped and brutalized…Christians in Nigeria are regularly slaughtered……the Islamic conquests of the 7th century and following were relentless…in the 7th century Charles Martel led the Franks to victory against an Umayyad army…Europe could have easily fallen to the Muslim onslaught…and now we have large Muslim populations in Europe…Scandinavia…Australia…USA…with terrorist attacks and killings in all of these countries…Lee Rigby had his head cut off in London…for no other reason than being a British soldier walking in the street…innocents slaughtered in Bali…Islamists have taken over Afghanistan…Iran…Lebanon…Gaza…much of Iraq….Yemen…but it is the Jewish population that has suffered the worst…the bestial massacre of civilians in the ancient Jewish town of Hebron in 1929…In the war of 1948-49 five Arab armies attacked the new Jewish country...the Secretary-General of the Arab League... Azzam Pasha, promised a “momentous massacre” to rival the Mongol massacres..…even though the Palestinians had been granted their own state and their own country in Jordan... massacres and warfare ever since…the slaughter of Tali Hatuel and her four young daughters... machined gunned to death in their car…the Dee family…a Mother and two daughters machined gunned in their car…the massacre at Ma’alot…alas the list is a long one…and for what…the Palestinians could have had their own state…but Muslims have one book and one prophet and believe the Koran to be the absolute truth.. Islamists believe that their duty is to covert planet Earth to an Islamic Caliphate…no Jews…no Christians…no Budhhists…Muslims destroying important archaelogical remains in Afghanistan…Bamiyan…ISIS doing the same in Iraq…and the Palestinians destroying ancient Hebrew remains in Judea and Samaria…and then we have consanguinity…first cousins marrying first cousins in the Muslim Middle East for many centuries…inbreeding on a large scale…what sort of human beings does this tradition produce…how many of the monsters that attacked Israel from Gaza were the product of inbreeding…because hatred alone does not explain all this behaviour…all Jewish people feel abused by the attack from Gaza…we have been collectively abused by a collection of depraved…mentally defective in-breds…time for revenge…enough is enough…when will the West wake up….S H Cohen
Thankyou for this conversation, I’m glad I found it and listened to the end even though I disagree with a lot of what was said, it’s so important to listen to all viewpoints… praying for humanity 🙏
This is the best interview from the Israeli side! Yuval Noah Harari is wise and empathic for both his people and the Palestinians... This a terrible tragedy and we need people like him to bring us out of the mess and towards peace!
These are some of the most important words I have heard on the crisis In Israel & Palestine. It provides some hope but also a warning for what the future holds. Thank you.
What hope?
- The number of **Palestinian demolished structures** and **civilians displaced** by Israel has increased significantly from 2009 to 2023, reaching a peak in 2016 with **1,094 structures** and **1,593 civilians**. The number of **affected civilians** also shows a sharp rise in 2019 and 2023, reaching **65,528** and **70,003** respectively.
- The number of **Jerusalem demolished structures** and **civilians displaced** by Israel has also increased from 2009 to 2023, with the highest numbers in 2016 (**327 structures** and **554 civilians**) and 2023 (**279 structures** and **455 civilians**) respectively. The number of **affected civilians** in Jerusalem reached a record high of **9,190** in 2023.
- The number of **Palestinian civilian deaths** caused by Israel has fluctuated over the years, with the highest numbers in 2008 (**1,440 deaths**) and 2014 (**1,492 deaths**) due to the Israeli military operations in Gaza. The number of **Israeli civilian deaths** caused by Palestinians has also varied, with the highest numbers in 2014 (**73 deaths**) and 2022 (**25 deaths**) respectively.
- The number of **total Palestinians injured** by Israel has increased dramatically from 2008 to 2023, reaching a peak in 2018 with **31,259 injuries**, mostly in Gaza. The number of injuries in the West Bank and Jerusalem has also increased, especially in 2021 with **16,808 injuries** and **1,417 injuries** respectively. The number of Palestinians injured by Israeli civilian settlers has also risen, reaching **304 injuries** in 2022 and **264 injuries** in 2023.
@@ranro7371 The hope would be that Israel through occupying Gaza and removing Hamas once and for all, allows for an international community plan to provide a viable & peaceful Palestine. It is what most people hope for I think....But is it possible?! That is the million dollar question.
All these deaths and the continuous cycle of revenge has got to stop. The danger is that Israel simply clears Gaza of Palestinians and makes them permanent exiles.....leaving Gaza empty. Perhaps when things look least hopeful then people will realise this has got to stop. But it is only a slim hope.
@@ranro7371Stop HAMAS TERRORISTS !!!
Islamic phase-transition is exactly the process, you have to understand that any Islam is hand and glove with Jihad, these Muslims are everyone's natural enemy.
I don't think Israeli occupation would be so problematic if it didn't treat Palestinians as second class citizens. After all, we all live under the rules of some government. If Palestinians could thrive and prosper as much as the Israelites can under an Israeli rule, then maybe they wouldn't be so keen on changing the situation. Or maybe I'm talking bollocks, I don't know.
Well Arab Israelis have full rights under Israel when they are citizens. The Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank are not Israeli citizens. Which makes them a conquered subject population, so your point stands, but its just that there is nuance there. The big issues all really stem from the occupied territories.
First off, the Gaza strip and West Bank are not "occupied Palestine", they are occupied Egyptian and Jordanian territory respectively. "Occupied Palestine" is Israel itself, and the Arabs that chose to remain and become citizens of Israel rather than fleeing to the "protection" of Egypt and Jordan are full citizens of Israel.
The ones who did flee got rewarded by being placed in refugee camps by their supposed saviors as political pawns from 1948 to 1967.
Second, despite the conditions of occupation, the residents of Gaza and the West Bank actually DID initially become more prosperous under Israeli occupation post 1967 than they had previously been under the Egyptians and Jordanians.
The Israelis invested heavily in modernizing the infrastructure of Gaza & the West Bank, and integrated their economies with Israel's. Their GDP more than doubled between 1970 and 1980, and they were the fourth fastest growing economy in the world.
This period ended with the First Intifada (uprising) in 1987 which lasted until 1993 and utterly crippled their economy.
This uprising was carried out primarily by groups sponsored by foreign actors, such as Hamas (Islamic fundamentalists sponsored by Iran) and the PLO (marxists sponsored by the Soviet Union).
@@Kieselmeisterthanks for providing that context
Yes you're talking b-s bec they treat them that way bec of the continuous nonstop guerilla warfare terrorism these people have continued for years
Get yourself versed with the casualties of the Oslo Accords.
Very interesting and timely conversation. Thank you all of you!
What an incredible communicator. Even in the depth of such trauma Yuval is able to think outside of his personal pain. i hope for peace in the minds and souls of all effected.
this is the same "person" that claimed that humanity has now become HACKABLE animals post clots shot event
Yuval is an imperialist and nows he is lying wilfully to ignorant westerners
An excellent discussion building to a final conclusion that makes more sense than has been around for about 10 years. Thank you.
I fear the reaction of Israel to the War Crime horrors visited upon them may destroy Israel. For a deeper look see Doctor Gabor Mate on this. He is my favourite therapist who survived Hitler as a Jewish baby in Prague. I find him illuminating on Israel & these questions. What puzzled & horrified me about Bi-Bi is after these horrors he was pleased, he was smiling. What is that about? Whilst one of his military men was gaunt with grief, rage and hate. I understand the later not the former.
He knows it is a moment where they can take their land back. Maybe that is why he smiles. He is happy to get the land back that Arabs stole.
This discussion matures around 34mins and should be grown into a ful-blown international peace conference with these 3 interlocutors on any future panel.
How terribly sad that this sort of interview is not in our MASS media - what we see is like scraping the barrel stuff, this interview is absolutely heartfelt and so informative - your guest is a lovely and honest man, that I have no doubt of. Thank you so much for these podcasts!
Listen to him when he’s talking about people on the stage @ the W.E.F. World economic forum…. He calls us hackable animals…. Check it out, his associate Klaus Schwab have great plans ahead for ‘us’ in their agenda known as the Great Reset ( Klaus wrote the book w/that title)
The American public in general is too stupid for an interview like this.
Thanks for having Yuval on! This was a good listen as an Israeli, this convo acknowledged the Israeli side which is missing from most conversations.
lmao @ the "israeli side". dear oh dear
Are you kidding? The media only "sells" Israel side and most politicians too. The Palestinian problem and the occupation of their land has been ignored or rather suppressed by the US for decades.
How do you feel about him disrespecting holocaust survivors?
Well all we hear is the Israeli side, supported by the money resources technology might, control of all world institutions in their grip and even then they clung onto victim hood.... It is crazy....and when you have the upper hand with unlimited control. Devastate and torque with no impunity, and you are the occupation, how unbalanced on the scales does one get. For years you thrived in this unbalanced favor towards yourselves, and you wonder in horror when the oppressed revolt. Come on, ate you being daft or naive!! Or just plain right exercising the supremacist attitude of only Israel deserves to exist, all other mortals are dispensable.
Not in America. Here it is strange to finally see some interest in the Palestinian side by some. Hope for peace soon.
Thank you so so very much for your courage to speak up, for sharing your truth, your will to overcome fear and hatred, for your constant believe in humanity, humble and strong at the same time. I am deeply impressed and find a little thread of hope for us humans, sharing this beautiful world.
And kudos to Yuval for recognising his limits for the political role. Unfortunately too many go into politics not to make a positive change for masses, but to achieve a massive change for themselves: to become rich and powerful.
Israel jews and peace! You Are murdering terrorists. For over fifty years! Two wrongs!
1 left hand a serpent right a will 1974 a blessing
This cried for full of the anger of God,+ who lives forever and ever
Children And This means my war This means devote many broke which is against us, devote many because did you and he answered devote Revelation 7:5
000+ who have his name and the name of his Father+written on their foreheads. 2 I heard
@@davidantonucci1161. Perhaps you are in the wrong forum.
Don't worry, Yuval supports removing "free will," so I'm sure his "people" will solve this "problem" by putting technology they control under their skin. Use your imagination for how that tech will be used.
Do you know what this man represents? Please research his WEF plans and see if you feel the same
As an American-Israeli, I so appreciate this honest, thoughtful and highly informed treasure of a human being.
Tonight , in another evening of waiting for more rockets fired at me, worries about my grandsons in the army and reserves, and the heartache of new horrors revealed ,there are what seems almost endless pain and destruction.
But here are rays of hope and the light of insights.
I'm not religious in the usual sense, but feel a strengthening of willingness to hope for and work towards, a peaceful future for us all.
The phrase "competition of suffering" rings absolutely true to my impression of posts I've seen on social media. The notion that, if you acknowledge the suffering of one party you are, by default, flippantly dismissing the suffering of the other party. There seems to be no space to nuance in this discussion. It's deeply polarized.
An amazing, despeRately needed discussion…so worthy of deep appreciation and gratitude. ❤
Over the years Harari has shown himself to be an incredibly thoughtful and insightful man. He is a truth seeker not given to ideology or polemic. Perhaps he is the person Israel must turn to in this time of crises. The politicians on all sides could benefit from his moral compass.
Yuval my brother I have learned to love you, your wisdom and also your heart..... thankyou and bless you as one who can guide us to peace as we go forward from this tragic violence
An excellent pod cast. Intelligent grown ups giving food for thought.
Yuval is a paedohile
Absolutely trying to figure what the heck happened? After 6 hrs no one was on guard ? It's something to think about
What a wonderful conversation! Yuval's thoughts on this are vital, enriching, and enlightening.
I always keep coming back to individuals, families and communities at the grassroots level having to do the hard work of bringing up the next generation to be loving and considerate of their neighbours rather than hateful and fearful as the political, fanatical or terrorist group narratives are. Things will change in time but only if the following generations are not taught the hate and fear. This is hard to do when you yourself are in such pain from the terror and atrocities perpetrated against you. It’s a vicious cycle and as it stands as long as people are blinkered and cannot see the wood for the trees this cycle will continue.
It’s true when you deal with normal people, but won’t work with religious extremist.
How can you live in peace & without fear when your neighbors want to bust in and massacre you, your family, your baby siblings, your entire neighborhood, and 1,300 other of your countrymen? This pseudo wisdom that liberal minded people tout only goes so far. The peaceful will be wiped out by those willing to commit atrocities, look at the history of the entire region, there’s a reason every other country in the ME became majority muslim. The 10% of them that are religious extremists are impossible to live alongside.
@@freedomlife3623❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
You ever seen how hateful them little Jewish kids are, only a devil would do that to a child, savages
I am not a tech savvy. I use a good old fashioned cell phone. I am therefore not on Whatsapp, Telegram, X nor any other social network. I am merely a concerned citizen interested in geo-politics, politics and history. In particular questions like; Why we as a people are seemingly unable to apply lessons from history to our present. If the reply to my comments above saying "Lets discuss above" is serious, I would love to delve into this further. I use e-mail, Skype and of course face-to-face for communications including the occasional comment on TH-cam when I view discussions and programs of substantive and intellectual quality like those presented by Roy Stewart among others. Sadly, to publish one's mail address in this forum risk exposing oneself to meaningless comments, threats and the like.
Absolutely superb and spot-on! Thank you all so much for taking the time to put this together for us!
Thank you so much for sharing these words of humanity and reason. They are much needed.
I have to be honest, Rory is a truly great person. I'm not a tory but I can;t help but wonder how they would've done with someone like him at the helm, a man of principle and integrity. Big respect for him
I read his his book "The places in between" 20 years ago, where he describes his solo trek across afganistan which conveyed both how thougtful and compassionate in nature he is. I've had a soft spot for him since then even if he is a Tory. It's a shame really, he would've made a great Tory leader.
Agreed. He is a good man which is rare on politics
He'd not have made a huge hash of the Covid pandemic and certainly wouldn't be partying at No 10 during lockdown! But he did vote consistently for welfare cuts in the Cameron era. He's really the last of the patriarchal, service oriented, colonial administrator class from which he is descended.
and what are you peter? @@peterm7548
@@peterm7548 I cannot even begin to imagine Rory partying. :)
Brilliant interview. Wise and compassionate with depth of understanding. Last comments of Harari on the need for a liberal rather than merely populist - nationalist fragmented world order - absolutely spot on.
Brava! Very well observed and remarked upon.
Everything I have read, or listened to from Yuval, has been profoundly true. His book Sapiens is a must read, it will change your view of the world we live in.
Superb, lucid and balanced discussion. Thank you so much!
By far the best conversation I've listened to over the past week
This is by far the most insightful and best episode you've put out in months, quite the level of the debate with John Major. Journalism at its best. Keep it up!
😢After a lapse of 4 months since this interview with Professor Noah Harari - we need a follow up interview with him - as there are so many moving parts in expressing the genocide that is clearly played out on international television and the matters before the highest court in the world - the ICJ.
I thought that was really interesting. Please also have a Palestinian speaker so we can hear about their pain too. I think it’s fair to hear both sides.
Fantastic episode. Thank you for sharing. Our hearts go out to those in the middle east! ❤
This was moving, I have family in Israel and lost a friend. I do think, however, it would be helpful to get a Palestinians perspective bc I also have a friend who has family in Gaza, and watching her stories, Hamas did not tell them to stay. They were trying to leave and the military attacks were preventing them from accessing roads, etc. Hamas wasn’t hiding in her family’s house. She was trying to leave with her family. My friend and were in contact and watching in real time on social media, and on the phone with eachother bc of our families that were there in the region. So, getting a Palestinians perspective I think is really important. They don’t like Hamas. They don’t want to live in a blockade in Gaza. They want to be able to have full citizenship in Israel. They don’t want their homes to be taken away by settlers etc.
Beautiful post. We need to hear from both sides
They don’t give a fuck about Palestinians and all the massacres they have done on them . Thay are just getting payback for nakba and what they keep doing.
They will just keep feeding you lies. They are themselves under terror, do you think they want to oppose?
Who cares where your friends are? This is about evil against good.
@@davethebrahman9870who cares what you think
I love this channel , it’s the right kind I’d place to formulate sound ideas. No B.S , no hype , just fact and respectful dialogue. Thank you so much.
Why are Israelis are shocked, is not because they do not know the sufferings of Palestinians, (when in reality the creators of this conflict and holocaust are friends of Israeli state.) But they never thought that the beleaguered people can attack the most technically and militarily advanced Israel in such manner. One needs to understand who created Hamas. What role Israel played in that.
Thanks for this discussion. I’ve been trying to do my own critical thinking around this, and this helped validate what I had thought about this situation
This programme and the previous one show a balanced, detailed, factual and empathetic coverage of such an emotionally charged issue! As you said in this programme, there will be no appetite in countries like ours to intervene robustly, but we can resist the tendency to simplify the narrative surrounding it and that includes not detaching ourselves from the horrors we have witnessed. Great programme!
Thanks for having Yuval over. Always gives a much cleaner way to think about things. Small suggestion: maybe increase the video length for next time slightly, and let him complete his views?
I am deeply concerned when insightful individuals like Yuval express dwindling hope in the peace process. It's profoundly disheartening to witness scenarios where overwhelming adversity leads to the erosion of humanity. The conflict has unfortunately taken a toll on both sides, with lives lost. Israel, by virtue of its stronger economy and support from Western nations, is in a unique position to influence positive change. It is crucial for Israel to leverage this economic and diplomatic advantage to foster regional growth and stability, ultimately guiding the path to a two-state solution.
From a personal standpoint, I believe that the expansion of unnecessary settlements and the displacement of Palestinians is akin to poking the bear unnecessarily. Such actions not only escalate tensions but also impede the progress of peace initiatives. It is concerning that Western nations, including the US, often overlook this as an issue. Such actions should be recognized as a violation of the rights and dignities of the people affected. Ordinary Palestinians, who might already be overwhelmed by the complexities of the conflict, would find it even more challenging to navigate this situation, especially once external influences like Hamas are removed from the equation.
Furthermore, the actions of Hamas, particularly their targeting of innocent civilians, are deeply troubling and can only be described as pure evil. If their intent was to bring about genuine change, they could have directed their anger towards uniformed soldiers, rather than innocent bystanders. It appears to me that their recent actions are not driven by a genuine desire for peace. Their behavior seems more reactionary, perhaps stemming from their displeasure with the recent normalization of relations between Israel and some Arab nations, such as the UAE and potentially Saudi Arabia.
As a stronger entity, Israel holds a significant responsibility to uphold ethical standards. Addressing concerns around settlements will be a step forward. Establishing a recognized international border and progressing towards a two-state solution seems to be the most viable way forward. Both Israelis and Palestinians have expressed their desire for self-governance. The sanctity of the holy sites should be preserved, perhaps through UN oversight, ensuring that they remain accessible to all followers of the Abrahamic religions. Additionally, collaboration from Arab nations in supporting and stabilizing the Palestinian state would be instrumental in forging a sustainable peace.
I largely agree with your roadmap. My only concern is what to do with the not insignificant number of Palestinians who continue to balk at the idea of a two-state solution and demand one Palestinian state from “the [Jordan] river to the [Mediterranean] sea”. How can there ever be peace if there are those who will never accept a two-state solution and who will continue to resort to violence/terrorism to tear away at it, if it is ever implemented? Maybe if they lived to actually experience a two-state solution that provided some measure of freedom and prosperity, their hearts would be changed. But that’s a long road, and it’s hard for me not to be pessimistic about any path forward from this point.
Responding to your message, I must admit that I don't have all the answers. However, it's evident that in any given population, there exists a subset that holds radical or extreme views, which may not align with the general sentiments of the majority. I observe this not just in the Palestinian territories but also in Israel. What I've come to understand is that economic prosperity has a way of tempering even the most hard-lined views. When individuals see tangible benefits in their daily lives, they often prioritize economic stability. As we discuss the formation of two states, it's imperative that these states are truly independent, ensuring neither has undue control or influence over the other's utilities or infrastructure.
You perfectly encapsulated my own concerns. Thank you. @@robbujold7711
There never was a palestinian state in history. Never
All the things you mentioned that Israel should do, is the opposite of their plan and their actions. Israel has fought against a two state solution since the first day it was formed. It started to remove Palestinians and expand its borders from the very first day and that is what lead Egypt and the others to attack. When there have been peacedeals and been negotiations for a two state system, Israel has done their best for it not to happen.
Israel has targetted civilians for years and they also targetted civilians now as retaliation. The pure evil actions are from both sides here.
You say that western nations should recognize that Israel taking more land and forcing Palestinians out of their homes as something that furthers the conflict. Most western countries already do that. THey have done that from the start, from the very first day Israel was formed.
The thing is, that the US supports Israel and they have a veto right in the UN. If not for the US, the UN would have sendt forces to deal with Israel decades ago. Even though almost every country in the UN agree that Israel is violating human rights, are a occupying force and are aggressors, they cannot do a single thing about it. The US uses its veto right to stop any attempts to make Israel stop occupying, killing and being an apartheid state.
True, when there is a competition between victimhoods it is psychologically impossible for one side to recognize the pain of the other. But then as tho to prove his own point, Yuval fails to recognise the real fear on the part of the Gazans being evicted that they might be being ethnically cleansed and never be able to return to their homes. Yuval does mention other reasons favourable to the Israeli narrative for their reluctance to leave their homes.
as far as I know israel didnt even want gaza or their homes. according to ben sharpiro atleast (no doubt based on historical fact) they tried to get egypt to claim the land. they gave the gaza strip self governance.
although now this might change.. they wont round up civilians and murder them (real ethnic cleansing hitler or stalin style) but perhaps they will snatch the land now. Perhaps its about time and be done with it...take control, severely punish the resistance give freedom to those that want it under a new ruler, repopulate, establish a new border.
might sound harsh...if they did that years ago it wouldve been alot more acceptable. War and conquer, take land.. it used to be normal.
This interview was intended to get the interviewees personal view on things, and even tell Yuval as much as well when he tries to *not* make it personal. An issue, however, is that the interviewers (seem to) attempt to keep their objective practices up which creates a weird dynamic that sometimes feels like they’re on the offensive/defensive, so I can’t tell whether that was intentional or not.
Yuval glossed over the wrongs done to the Palestinians and Israel's failure to give them rights.
Nitpicking
@@DominicGreene72huh?
Thank you for this. Three human, humane and honest voices. Much needed in these dark times.
Outstanding. I have bookmarked this to listen to it again and again.
Netanyahu showed a map in the conference just weeks ago where the was no Gaza in it. He ignored Egypt warning so he can wipe Gaza. That’s why his being so brutal.
Excellent conversation - thank you. Indeed the discussion bears on our own personal lives and the way we live them.
Look forward to the interview getting the palestinian view.
This interview reiterates once again that understanding human psychology is at the basis of working for peace.....well described.
I'm very glad I subscribed. Harari gives me HOPE. And now, with their lives enriched by their experiences (good and bad) Stewart and Campbell have never been as needed as they are now. I've never voted conservative (and only labour years ago) but Rory Stewart's decency made me wish he'd stayed in politics. I don't care for the party, I was swayed by a sense of him as a cautious, compassionate and humble individual. If we don't need THOSE qualities in national leadership in the UK (not to mention the Israeli / Palestine issue) then I don't know what we do need.
He was very popular when he was electioneering on the ground, I think for his own sanity it’s probably best he didn’t stay in politics.
@@lizroberts1569 True enough. I've done two years as a Parish Councillor in my village and it's been an absolutely bruising experience. I can't imagine scaling up the abuse to the level of national politics!
Thank you Rory and Alisdair for creating a true open space devoid of political dogma to allow us here to have a sense of honest over this tragedy
You haven't picked up the bias.
@@RadiantStar8997you literally sound like an Iranian bot.
@@barbaraissahary1327 Well said, Israelie agent.
@@RadiantStar8997 Do tell. What’s your issue (or issues) with this conversation? Just making an empty statement doesn’t contribute anything.
@@angrydoggy9170 They didn't go into details of the atrocities against the Palestinians: (dirty restricted drinking water, calorie restricted diet, illegal settlements with settler violence, armed intrusion into Palestinian homes, without evidence of crimes etc. That kind of violence which is air-brushed by the mass media of the Western world.
I didn't agree with Rory Stewart on Brexit, but he's a great asset right now in terms of understanding an appalling situation, and we are lucky to have him.
@@vanbalzup6481 Ali stair Campbell is.
I am a huge admirer of Prof. Yuval Harari's work. Thank you for discussing such a complex conflict.
Thank you Mr Stuart and Mr Campbel for given us such an informative, mind bending perspective on this terrible conflict.
It is very sad to see so many lives in such senseless and brutal way.
Peace on this planet please.
Listen to Professor Norman Finkelstein who has been silenced by Israel.
Hamas is Armed Resistance of Palestinians
Such clarity in a moment of darkness. A great interview.
I recommend contributions by Dr Gabor Mate and Yannis Varoufakis on this topic.
They are much more to the point. (Just my humble view)
A nation's right to defend itself is clear and right. However, the right to take and destroy the lives of those incidentally living in an area where their enemies come from is not. Which is why it is stated in international law to be a war crime. Imagine if you, say living in London, were told you have 24 hours to leave before an enemy of Britain starts bombing 'in order to defend itself' is that a legitimate position to take. And the world stands back and says "well they do have the right to defend themselves against British aggression. I'm old enough to remember the IRA issuing warnings before bombing here on the mainland... I don't recall the world standing by saying they support their right to do that. I can't think of any other region in the world where a country would be given free range to destroy an enclave and the people contained there... Simple as that.
finally, words of hope- and recognition of the responsibility of leadership.
It’s shameful to hear that there is only finger pointing in the beginning
And then it continues on through out, even when the questions are asked the answers begins and ends with the horrific attacks of Hamas.
You certainly aren’t going to begin the conversation by demanding the condemnation of Hamas attacks but not condemning the actions of IDF which should be held to much higher standards since it’s operated by a democratically elected government
This really increased my clarity and understanding of the situation with Israelis and Palestinians in the region; thank you Yuval! I do agree that the UN, the West and Arab nations need to be instrumental in getting back to a peaceful solution in the coming decade, or however long it takes.
i don't think you are even close of understanding this conflict. israel has succeeded to make you believe that they are not occupiers. go search Nelson Mandela view on Palestine instead of taking propaganda from a citizen of occupiers
the world!+ 30 This is the one about whom I said: ‘Behind me there comes a man who has advanced in front of me, for he existed before me.’+ 31 Even I did not know him
knowledge+
8 For we do not want you to be unaware, brothers, of the tribulation we experienced in the province of
Asia.+ We
were under extreme pressure beyond our own strength, so that we were very uncertain even of our lives 11 You also can help us by your supplication for us,+ in order that many may give thanks in our behalf for twche favor we receive in answer to the prayers of many
and God chose the insignificant things of the world and the things looked down on, the things that are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,+ 29
@@chief_9938 right, cuz nelson is the one who you chose to make the most sense
go do research yourself
I love how there are so many people in this world who arent even aware of the wars Israel had to survive from day 0 after becoming a country and doing so by the world rules.
@@chief_9938c him i what foretold one +7 They want to be teachers+ of law, but they do
to us wisdom from God, also
righteousness+ and sanctification+ and release by ransom,+ 31 so that
it may be just as it is written: “The one who boasts, let him boast in Jehovah.
@chief_9938 I would rather be subjugated by Israel than by Hamas.
Must be one of the first times where I'm in line with him. Wish him the best.
So much insight. So scary that pandemic, war, etc. instead of calling us together in common interests divides us further; it’s almost as if we spurn the opportunity these times of crisis present us to work toward the liberal global order; instead we seem to be embracing division and the looming threat of global conflict where no one wins. Thanks for this thoughtful discussion
That is because the liberal world order was never unifying, nor based on common interests, but always, as is the point of liberalism, an order of exploitation and hierarchy based on wealth. A world order that truly aimed at well being and prosperity for all would not have generated such conflicts. If conflicts arise within a state of affairs, they arise because of that state of affairs, not in spite of it.
"liberal" "global" "order" - 3 words that are already in absolute conflict with each other...
We need to distinguish between "liberal" meaning the practice of predatory capitalism, and liberal = socially progressive
@@aninewforest Neither of those is the definition of liberal in this context. In fact the first one isn't intrinsically related to "liberalism" at all. Liberal, in this context, is: "Relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise."
That's what John is talking about, the classical definition of liberalism, established in the Enlightenment and used to build **the entire world you live in today** -- where there is less poverty, less death, less suffering, less disease, less starvation, less war, better science, better education, more literacy, more rights for women, minorities, immigrants, children, and the disabled -- all of that is a product of the Western post-Enlightenment Liberal World Order.
That's what John is telling you, that we're squabbling over petty differences while not working to preserve that liberal global order.
"Work toward the liberal global order". You sound like an imperialist.
I think he is absolutely wrong when he speaks about the progress for peace in the region. Settlements are continuing to be constructed in the West Bank. Settler violence against Palestinians occurs almost daily. It seems, sadly, Yuval condemns one kind of political violence while allowing another. What he says about Hamas could easily be said about the correct Israeli government, both want to wipe the state of the other off the map. Peace will be with the Palestinians, not Gulf monarchs. As seen in the World Cup, the people of those states do not support these peace treaties and they are the one that will need to be won over eventually.
Another fact, if Gazans saw an option for a peaceful settlement they would take it and Hamas would be gone. All Israel needs to do is make concessions to the Gazans people and Hamas would be gone. The
agreed, hes just trying to push the muh Hamas, hamas owned the IDF fair and square, and they keep trying to say if was some event targetting civilians where there is zero eveidence.. where are the 40 babies? where are the door to door killings he talks about? Yes civlians died but it looks like collateral damage rather than some bloodlust targeting and we dont know from which side until investigated. Apartheid states create violence, who created the aparthied state? @@thomaslawless2573
@@thomaslawless2573 You are complete wrong here, Hamas would not cease tro exist over night, Hamad Al-Regeb called for “annihilation” and “paralysis” of the Jews whom he described as filthy animals" - coming from a chief Hamas spokes person in 2023.
Will you also be inteviewing a Palestinian to ensure we get their side for once?
Well said!
We've got a better chance of Maggie Thatcher the milk snatcher being resurrected
I was waiting for mr Harrari to talk about the subject. Thank you.
So appreciate this thoughtful conversation.
Exactly! It is now important to analyze in detail the financial aspect of this conflict and make it accessible to the Palestinian public. The self-enrichment of the Hamas ruling elite, the millions of dollars in funds that international aid organizations have made available to the Palestinian public and which are being misused by the Hamas ruling elite; This truth will open the eyes of the international public to the true and dirty background of this catastrophe!
If this is indeed a war of the mind and soul, then Israel has already lost if gives in to its collective anger and takes Hamas' bait to effectively raze Gaza City to rubble. There has to be smarter and more strategic ways to deal with Hamas and their ilk.
What would you suggest?
They pay their people to kill Jews. This is not a symmetrical conflict over land. That's a lie. There are not two sides. There are those who wish to kill Jews because they are Jews, there are those who use children as shields and as militants themselves, there are those who tell us directly "we love death like you love life." The charter of Hamas, democratically elected by the Palestinians, states that wherever you find a Jew, you must kill them. Their stated goal is a second Holocaust. They deny the first ever happened, but they swear to carry out the second. They are, at base, a Nazi death cult. The biggest lie of all is the two sides narrative. I think this testimony should be witnessed by all: th-cam.com/video/NSaY4k2CEZo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ohuKC4u7RFQD8USF
Well said.
Waiting to hear those brilliant ideas...
@@sdeichemed End the theocratic ethno-state. Allow the decedents of the 700,000 Palestinians that were driven out of now Israel during the 1948 war (who, btw, still don't have citizenship and still live in what are essentially refugee camps) to return to their rightful homes as equal citizens with full rights as citizens of an Israel-Palestine nation. Allow them to have a say in that democracy. Absorb Gaza. Come to a border agreement with State of Palestine (or agreement to unify if Palestinians there wish it).
One state. Democratic. Equal between Muslims and Jews (and anyone else). But the Israelis will never give up their ethno-state.
@@sdeichemedby starting a negotiation that involves freedom and equal rights for Palestinians. It's impossible to have a democracy if one religion or race has superior rights. Israelis need to give up on this utopian dream of having a state without ever having to humanely deal with the problem of the original native population - in the same way white South Africans had to - Australia, Canada and the USA also went through this process, and are still dealing with it to various degrees.
Sending love to everyone who has been affected
The conversation at about 20 minutes is extremely relevant to Americans as well right now. A version of this could easily represent our future if we can't dispense with the lies.