How to Sit Properly - Desk Ergonomics
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ค. 2024
- How to Sit Properly - Desk Ergonomics
Desk ergonomics almost determine whether you'll be able to sit properly on a desk or not. The conventional desk setup that forces the knees into a 90-degree position simply doesn't work. The center of gravity is moved forward because of that, and the amount of effort you'll have to put to keep your spine in posture is huge. Sooner or later, you'll end up falling back to your chair, and of course, this is only one side of the problem.
The basic role of your desk setup should be to promote you to a neutral and healthy posture. In other words, you should have a desk set up that will require the least effort to maintain proper posture, and this is the only way to stay in posture for long hours.
Just a reminder for more videos like this:
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The stool I'm using (affiliate link):
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/ @yiannischristoulas
Wow, 11K likes! I'm deeply grateful for your support. Thank you!
I also want to address some constructive criticism about the wrist and knee positions I've recommended.
Wrist Position
Criticism: The suggested wrist angle is not ideal and the position of the forearms on the desk increases the pressure on the forearm flexors.
Response: Research indicates that wrist issues are more likely due to excessive keyboard use (over 20 hours a day) rather than wrist position (Bernard et al., 1992; Franzblau et al., 1993; Hales et al., 1994; Doezie et al., 1998, and Conlon et al., 2005). A study from 2008 focusing on individuals training over 20 hours a week found that an ideal wrist angle is less than 30 degrees, easily achievable with a thin, low-slope keyboard like the one I use (Rempel et al., 2008).
Regarding the forearms pressure, the notion that forearms should be suspended to reduce flexor pressure is overstated. While it might be ideal to avoid desk contact, this alone is unlikely to cause injury. Simply putting pressure on an area doesn't injure you similar to how resting your back against a chair doesn't harm your back. I think that this misconception stems from people who already have forearm injuries or inflammation and experience discomfort with added pressure. However, this doesn't mean the pressure is the root cause of their injury but rather it is a stimulus that triggers their symptoms. Similar to having a knee injury that gets triggered by walking. In that case, walking is not the problem.
Knee Position
Criticism: The proposed knee position increases pressure and places the knees at a disadvantage.
Response: Actually, the knee position is a key benefit of my recommended setup. The knees maintain a 90-degree angle, similar to traditional setups, but with a crucial difference: they're suspended without any weight or pressure, significantly reducing stress. This might be confused with other positions where weight is applied to the knees, which I agree, would not be ideal. But here, the knees are literally hanging, free from pressure.
Additionally, this position benefits the hip flexors. Typically, having the hips at a 90-degree angle for extended periods can lead to hip flexor tightness. In the position I propose, by moving the legs down and back, we're extending the hips, similar to a standing position, which helps in alleviating tightness in the hip flexors.
I hope this explanation helps clarify my points. I'm always open to further criticism, and I'll do my best to respond with the time that I currently have.
References:
- Bernard B, Sauter S, Peterson M, et al. Los Angeles Times, NIOSH Health Hazard Evaluation, HETA 90-013. National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health, Centers for Disease Control; 1992.
- Franzblau A, Flaschner D, Albers J, et al. Medical Screening of office workers for upper extremity cumulative trauma disorders. Arch Environ Health. 1993;48:164-170.
- Hales TR, Sauter SL, Peterson MR, et al. Musculoskeletal disorders among visual display terminal users in a telecommunication company. Ergonomics. 1994;37:1603-1621.
- Doezie AM, Freehill AK, Novak CB, et al. Evaluation of cutaneous vibration thresholds in medical transcriptionists. J Hand Surg (Am) 1998;23:759-761.
- Conlon CF, Rempel DM. Upper extremity mononeuropathy among engineers. J Occup Environ Med. 2005;47:1276-1284.
- Rempel DM, Keir PJ, Bach JM. Effect of wrist posture on carpal tunnel pressure while typing. J Orthop Res. 2008 Sep;26(9):1269-73.
My guy brought the works cited! I really wish more people on youtube would do this
Sir..how to maintain similar neck posture while reading books also? I have scoliosis issue and also preparing for civil exam. I have to study 8-12 hours a day.
bro is genuine 🫡🫡
We dnt see this on YT
Great job
«excessive keyboard use (over 20 hours a day)»
- sounds like a challenge)
I’ve been wondering why I find my feet resting on the wheels after I sit for a while.
Exactly!
I agree. I naturally end up in that position or various others as the day continues.
That rocking chair looks good if not too low.
@@YiannisChristoulasi bought a 27 inch monitor and i found the hieght to be tall for me, i will be downgrading to 24 inch monitor.
Or the chair is too high and your feet is not reaching the floor
I always thought I'm a weirdo for doing this..
Finally someone who tackles a modern life problem with an approach I can relate myself with.
Another high quality and easy to watch video...
Thanks for all your material🙏 Keep up the good work!
kudos!!
I appreciate your support and I promise to keep them coming!
"Less effort to maintain neutral position" Is the key! Thank you for this great educational video🙏🏻🙏🏻💐
This is awesome! Thank you for breaking down your videos in such a well structured manner. I really appreciate it!
This is great! I recently invested in a new motorized standing desk and a rocking stool but I was still having issues after sitting for 20 or 30 minutes, and I think your tip about moving the feet back to change the center of gravity was the key! It immediately felt right and more comfortable. Thanks!
also try to work on your back musslces and abbs
How @@Pulko172
Thank you, man. Your video should be watched by everyone. This info could save everyone's back. Today I followed your advice and went from 30 min to 2h without being bored by back pain or neck. 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
I appreciate you sharing this useful information. Your exposition of the topic from a scientific and physics standpoint, along with your recommendations, make this issue seem incredibly straightforward. Continue producing quality material. Cheers)
I’m glad you found this helpful! I’ll keep them coming!
I moved almost 500 days ago, and I totally meant to get some cheap books from the local thrift shop to use to pile under my monitor, but I completely forgot to do that. I've had the monitor up on books for a few days now, after watching this video, and it's been great. I also have been sitting with my feet back to shift my center of gravity; that was a trick I didn't know so thank you!
I can absolutely confirm that having your screen mounted high helps a lot, regardless of everything else.
bro, i've seen some of your vids and i wanna say no cap, your channel is one of the best youtube fitness channels in english. For real, your content are actually helpful and have scientific studies behind, no like the majority of fitness channels here. Just thank you, never delete your channel and keep going. Jesús te bendiga.
Thank you friend, comments like this keep me going!
I don't know man but touching the floor your toes with vertical feet and knees bending > 90 degrees doesn't exactly say "neutral position". Combine it with the saddle rocking chair and you get the perfect recipe for a very pronounced anterior pelvic tilt and later lower back disc compression.
thank you a million times! I can't express how grateful I am for your help. Your video is exactly what I needed and, honestly, nobody else explained it as perfectly as you did. thqanks a lot!
Same here
WOW this was seriously do helpful! I tend to succumb to very bad posture when studying, reading, and working at my desk and my back and neck always hurts as a result! Thank you so much this will help a lot. I might consider that chair but I have to say it does looks a little goofy🤣 great tips though, you’re a life saver!
as soon as i heard him talk about folding the knees, it started making sense. Have been trying forever to figure out why i couldn't keep myself from slouching. Now i can easily sit for 45-50 minutes without any trouble whatsover.. Thank You.
this makes so much sense. I'm gonna try this now and see how it goes. Thanks!
Im so Happy I found this! Im a physics PhD student writing my dissertation and in so much pain the last few years I can barely work ---all the ergonomic stuff I read and tried to do never helped bec I couldnt sustain those upright positions and would get tired and slump or lay down and cant stand sitting up for more than a few minutes ---physical therapy and expensive chairs have not helped ...cant wait to try this because it totally makes sense and fits my exact complaints! Thanks for sharing :D
I'm happy to hear that you found the video helpful! I'm sure you'll see improvement if you apply these tips. Wish you all the best for your dissertation!
When the video started I tried to find a posture that is naturally most comfortable. I automatically put my legs back. And then in the video later you show exactly the same posture. Bang On! I wonder why I never tried to try to put the legs back earlier. I guess I should get a MacBook stand and a wireless keyboard for the neck position. Thanks a lot. You've got a subscriber. And hope I'll have a comfortable sitting during my PhD😇.
Haha, yeah, it makes sense that you instinctively took this position. It comes naturally! Thanks for the support! I wish you all the best with your PhD 💪
Glad to have found your channel. Keep the scientific and useful videos coming. Thanks!
Thanks for the support! I’ll keep them coming!
I sit all day and never had big back problems or similar - my secret is that I can't sit still and change positions all the time. Really glad that you included that towards the end!
So whats the interval?
Every 30 minutes seems to be a commonly recommended interval. @@sreerajcalicut
Wow this is uncanny, I used to literally work in a position like 2:11 - it felt a lot more comfortable for my shoulders especially since I'm a relatively short guy working with a normal height sitting desk. I work standing nowadays but the upper body stuff is still really useful. Thanks!
One of the most and simple tips Ive seen. Thank you very much!
Excellent video! Subscribed! You have explained a common problem in a simple way and I love your channel.
Amazing video. Just another example of why "knees over toes" position is so optimal. Well done. I use a standing desk and keep the bluetooth keyboard underneath me. No sitting necessary. When I do sit, I place the bluetooth keyboard and mouse on my lap. I keep the computer in front of my eyes due to the multiple levels of my standint desk (essentially I am using a bookshelf. ) the stackiny books trick was such a good tip.
This video has really improved my knee pain. Thank you for sharing 🙏🏾
Thank you! Your advice is very helpful! I tried it out and immediately felt more comfortable at my desk. 🤯
Great content! Would love to see more of that. I have been struggling for years with correct posture at my computer desk. This video helped a lot
Happy to hear this! If you struggle with this you might want to check my videos on how to correct Hyperkyphosis, Forward neck and Rounded Shoulders 💪
Thanks a lot for your guidance. You have explained it and made it so simple to follow.
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for the support
"..you need to activate your lower back muscles that eventually get tired and you fall back" YES! Been struggle with this for the longest time! I'm going to give your tips a try thank you!
Exactly! Give it a try!
Finally the type of content I need. I do office work and paint digitally all day long, started to have pain on my shoulder and tried lots of thing but not these!
We have Aeron chairs in my workplace and I spent some time tweaking the chair. Optimal for me is to lean the chair back and adjust the tension to my weight which causes the back to ‘float’. Coupled with a foot rest this makes it very comfortable.
Brilliant. Thank you so much.
I haven't been able to use a computer for years and years, I'm laying in my bed on my phone right now and that's how I use the internet. I want to get back to using a computer one day and you may have saved me years off of how long that's going to take to get me back to using a computer.
I'm really grateful.
I'm so glad to see that this video helped you! Keep it up and thanks for sharing this! 🙏
Brilliant, just what I was looking for. Thank you
I been doing postures, wrong. And causing issues in back and neck. I learned today that -
the legs should be back to give a balance.
And keyboard should be near.
Which I been doing wrong from a long time, I mean basic things like this I found the flaw. You used really well, with base thinking.
Thanks man!
Good tips. As a practical alternative to a fancy rocking... stool like that, having a "wobble cushion"(?!) is a great way to be less static during sitting. At least it helps me a great deal for gaming at home, working in the library or at my desk job now. A bit weird to sit on at first, but you can get used to hit quite quickly. Can highly recommend.
Thank you for sharing this 🙏! Sounds like a good budget way to break away from the traditional fixed chair position.
Thank you very much for this video. As someone who works in the IT industry, having to sit down most of the day in front of a screen is a pain and I always feel fatigued after a long day's work.
Your tips surely helped with this.
Try working out.
Wow. This has not crossed my mind, like ever. Thanks for the quality tips.@@ross-morozov
Excellent explanation. My lower back pain got away immediately !
I have been sitting like this (feet under hips) for years and all my back/torso fatigue+occasional pain went away. I found it super comfortable, same position as my motorcycle.
This truly worked for me! Thank you much! All the best to you!
Wow...solution to all my problems in single video...your video is a gold mine...KUDOS..GR8 work
Great video! I've always struggled with another problem that if you are typing a lot using conventional keyboard when you bring it closer to you to maintain that 90 degree elbow angle you lose neutral position at your wrists. So as video says no position is good for the whole workday, you have to alternate between them and mix in some exercise time. Or you can type until you feel discomfort and then switch to something that don't require keyboard use, like reading something.
Highly informative and scientifically supported, not just opinion
That leg position in a normal chair is almost guaranteed to give you a DVT blood clot for your troubles
☝️ This. Sadly from a while back I'm suffering of poor blood circulation, and putting the legs in that position is a big no-no at least in regular chairs.
Video's are becoming better and better my man! Keep it up! :D
Thank you friend, I appreciate it!
Very interesting video. I'm going to repeat what as already said by others, but it's really nice to understand what good posture is for desk work. I think lately, my body tends to this posture naturally.
From the suggestion you shared on the description, I assume any stool that allow to be in this position comfortably (and and move) can be used, no need fancy kneeling chairs or others.
simple, very useful, to the point, great!. Thank you very much.
As I was watching the video, I've realised that I spend most of my computer time in this position any way - it just feels comfortable, and only when I think about "good"posture, I switch to this straight and rather uncomfortable one. Looks like, I won't be switching any more. thank you.
Brilliant. This might be the single most life changing video I watched.
Wow, thanks for the support. I’m glad you found this so helpful 😁
Most sensible video on topic! Thank you for valuable information, keep up the good work!
Greetings from Turkey :)
The problem is u don't, u don't have to hold a position this is the key.
One of the best video ever, you give autonomy to the person u watches, this is so rare nowadays even with journalists.. U did a top job
Thanks a lot for making profound research on this topic!
Yeah subconsciously I was doing that as well. The only problem is that this way of keeping your legs makes it good for your spine and muscles but it makes it very bad for the blood flow.
This video is GOLD for me!! Thank Sir ❤❤
This is amazing! i will definitely be doing this now
Give a try!
There's quite a few kneeling posture chairs on the market, there's a handful of niche chairs that offer cross-legged sitting or squatting postures, and I've noticed saddle chairs of various designs coming out more recently, along with the various stool style chairs; I've been interested in all three styles, but I've also been interested in combining them as a multi-posture chair that fits different needs. Though, I think this is only one of many fixes for one of many problems. Personally I like the lounge chair style, more specifically the kind where the seat itself is tilted back, this allows for neutral posture the the spine while remaining relaxed assuming the cushions themselves are ergonomic, while also keeping your lower legs at an upright while your feet are flat on the floor, and the backwards tilt allows you to relax while being held in this position; for similar reasons, I also like zero gravity recliners, I just wish there were more options for both that had correct spinal alignment cushions rather than just flat cushions or flexible materials.
I also like the idea of having ergonomic vertical keyboards with integrated pointing devices at the arm of a chair, assuming the chair arms are placed properly or have the adjustments to be placed properly. You'd have all your input at one hand position, and that position wouldn't cause repetitive strain or nerve issues, at a neutral rest for your arms. This would also remove the need for the desk itself, monitors can be put on a floor stand or an arm that extends from the chair itself, laptop stands would work similarly, all of which can reduce floorspace taken by a typical desk and moving chair arrangement; and this works because you don't actually need a desk, which works better as a worksurface rather than a mouse and keyboard surface, we just use desks because they're an antiquated piece of furniture from when the pre-digital office actually required worksurfaces to do work on. With proper articulation and range, this could be adapted to work with standing postures and even laying postures, the peripherals would just have to follow your body's movements.
Between the two, the ultimate end could should be an exoskeleton that cradles us in the correct position. Not only being a neutral or neutral-like position, but also a zero effort position where we can fully relax while still retaining neutrality. This would also help people who aren't in the best physical health conditions, people who're more likely to try to relax much earlier in the cycle of sitting in a chair, people who aren't going to have the core support to retain a neutral posture for long. The idea of an exoskeleton isn't even that far fetched of an idea, robotic exoskeletons have been in development for some time to assist labor workers, I believe one of the larger international automotive manufacturers have opted to give their factory employees exoskeletal legs that assist with a partial squat position, etc., why can't we apply the same kind of concept into an ergonomic work environment and have an exoskeletal frame that comfortably holds us in a neutral position with no effort required to hold that position.
another (most) important tip that was missed unfortunately - is the height of your desk. The one in the video is clearly way to high, which forces the wrists into an akward position and promotes circulatory problems in the legs (especially unhealthy for the women)
Thanks Man, I saw a chair from Japanese that have a sitting position exactly like u showed in the video before but don't really understand why it look like that. Now I understand more and going to buy it.
Vastly underrated Chanel! Keep up with the great content Γιάννη
Thank youuuuuu!!!
Fully realetable man!! That is out of typical video that told us to sit like a robot for a long time.
You’re very smart and I really appreciate your research
I just got diagnosed with mild scoliosis and military neck after using an ergonomic (?) chair for 1 year. Before that I was using a dining set chair and I was positioning my spine and legs in the way that you show in the video. Looking back, it was a poor and expensive decision on my part. I wish I had seen this video sooner.
Amazing Video my friend. Well done!
As always great stuff man
How can you solve the problem of desk edge pressure on your forearms? Having elbows below the desk is great for your shoulders but then your forearms land right on the edge of the desk... A lower desk maybe?
Yet another great video tackling the subject of posture, thank you Yiannis!
Thank you Gonçalo!
this is actually so helpful, thank you !
I think, at least for me, the reason that putting my feet under the seat makes it easier to keep a neutral spine is not related to shifting the center of gravity but rather to hamstring tightness. For example, if I try to go further than the 90-degree angle and straighten my legs in the knees while sitting, I can hardly keep my lower back straight at all, with a lot of effort. And off course there is no talking about sitting this way for a long time. With 90 degrees this effect is weaker but still there. Bending the knees removes the hamstring tension.
Thanks for the video, it got me thinking. For now I'm alternating between a simple chair and an office chair with a back that can recline and rock (which gives me some freedom to change posture), but I may try the rocking stool as well.
Thank you so much for making this video! Quite an eye-opener. Trying to find a similar stool in my region or a direct distributor.
The best video on ergonomics!!! Thank you!
Wonderful tips. Thanks a lot! 🙂🙏
My pleasure!
I'm going to try the positioning for posture, I have a bad lower back so hopefully this will help. Previously I have used a lower back support that had a pad behind my back and straps that went around my knees. It helped but was cumbersome when I needed to get up.
I disagree on the monitor placement. Looking straight forward your eyes should be looking about 2/3rds up the screen. This is because your eyes have a field of view that will see the upper portion of your screen without having to move your eyes. That is unless there is something you need to see above your screen.
High quality content THANK YOU!
Thank you for the great advice, this position is much easier on the lower back,
however,
in my case knees got inflamed (diagnosed with synovitis), because of a new position they were put into for 6+ hours. Got advice to try to keep them slightly more open than 90, as shown at the beginning of the video.
Looks like this position produce permanent stress on the meniscus, sitting like this for hours every day looks very bad
I agree 100%. As I am having slip disc and this position suits me the best.
Thank for sharing.
I will try all tomorrow
Thank you for the video , i agree with you form thoracic spine and above
But the the recomeded pose for lower limb is pushing the lumber into excicive extension compressing the posterior neural arch and guide the lower back into herniated disk by time
Also this part of video is contradicting the Burger's module
very good demo and explanation thank u
Thank Your so much for your relatable guidance!
Great tips!
Thanks for the video!
Thank you man, awesome advice!
i love this and agree w everything
i would add hands/wrists tho
the position of hands and wrists not only affects the wrists themselves but the rest of the arm and the shoulders and spine as well
i went to a split keyboard that tilts so my palms can face one another and i can never go back
You are awesome. Thank you so much Yiannis!
Now, That's really great content, finally something I can relate to !
Fantastic video. I am going to try this out
Wow! Super helpful. I always have trouble maintaining the 90 angle on my legs
Thank you Yiannis. This already feels like a more neutral position 👌
brilliant! thank you very much!
💪
Your video is great!!!❤❤ I wonder if you have any suggestions on ergonomic chair user?
Loved your video! I have a doubt when putting my elbows far back, i always though that having them in the desktop would be advantagious in the prevention of wrist paint when typing. Having the elbows going down the desk inmediately feels awkward for the wrist.
What do you think, maybe the height of the seat should also be a variable, maybe if the elbows are far back BUT higher than the desk would be of help in relieving wrist pain.
Nice video! Thanks!
Thank you!
That explains alot, I have pretty much no back pain when sitting with the legs under me, problem I cannot walk because my knees hurt. So when I remember to get the legs out for sure my back starts hurting after some hours. I find it very difficult to work without getting pain in my discosprolaps, and very difficult to work with anything when having pain in my lower back. .. At the step 2 and 4ish it all seems to counter the first part. But it seems like a reasonable great explanation that the weight shifting from standing to sitting creates problems.
Can we at least acknowledge the insanity of our work-dominated culture that makes this kind of videos necessary and even seems natural in the first place?
Thank you for the video, it helps, I'll also try to get my son on board with this sitting style
Go do it! I’m glad you found it helpful!
Thank you so much for helping me stay healthy.
Very very useful! Thank you Yiannis!
I have a small stool under the desk that holds my legs up, and the chair is slightly bent backwards so that my whole body is supported by its "shape". The chair is the right size for your back. Adjust the height of the desk so that it can fit between your elbows and legs.
Good stuff, thank you!
I like the way you think. But a saddle stool gets the job done better to open up the angle of the trunk/legs, which is the key. Also, pressure on the pelvic floor is an issue too. Some get split saddles, but I think those can have their own issues and are expensive. I've never had one but my saddle is wide, so I spread my legs wide enough that my thighs take the weight off of the center off the saddle and my pelvic floor. I also shift around a lot.
Shifting positions is key I agree. What is your saddle seat? I’d be interested in exploring other types of support
@@YiannisChristoulas I got a cheap no name saddle stool off of eBay (vendor was "salon supply" or something like that) I think at least 10 years ago for $70 including shipping and took it to work. It's the best 70 I ever spent. I still use it, and the faux leather seat doesn't show any wear believe it or not. I can hardly believe it myself. Since then I've seen more saddle stools in the lower price ranges, but I've had no reason to try them since mine works fine for me. I have an adjustable "standing desk", but I sit on the stool most of the time. I got a very high (I think 32") stool since sitting on a high stool and standing I can use the same desk height rather than move desk up and down. I don't like saddle stools used low. I think all saddle stools can potentially cause issues with pelvic floor, but like I said I decided the way I sit (wide and pretty much doing hip stretches) and standing sometimes I figured might work as well as an expensive Finnish saddle that was split though I'd love to try one sometime. But I've heard some say they can be painful.
Interesting....will give it a shot!
Give it a shot and come back to tell as your experience with this set up 💪
Section 2. Your hands will die sooner with this posture
That looks like a perfect position if you want carpal tunnel.