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Can’t wait until you guys cover Euron in the books. When you realize GoT and now Rings of Powers writers filled the stuff down so they could understand… Not real fans but just seeking a profit. The thing is if they went through with it all. People would love them for their decisions and execution of them
That quote from tywin about killing 12 people being more honourable than killing a thousand in battle is quite hypocritical when you realize that literally thousands of northern troops were killed during the red wedding, massacred in their sleep or whilst drunk on liquor
Plus this is the guy who claimed to put family first yet treated his own son like shit just for being a dwarf. He also ignored or just saw his other children as the pawns that would make the family name great yet he terrified them as children and hardly showed any love or so much as even a smile to them. When he died and they showed his corpse with a smile it creeped the hell out of Jaime and Cersei.
the problem with the idea is: the man who can kill 12 people at dinner has absolutely no reason to killing a thousand in battle, and those thousands know it. this is a good way to ensure you will never again manage a deal without overwhelming force.
I disagree. Tywin only wanted the nobles dead. Roose and Walder on otherhand knew that they needed to killoff all loyal soldiers to consolidate their rule.
Asoiaf fact:The mountain is the reason his brother Sandor spits in knighthood. If a monster like Gregor can become a knight than a knight is truly just someone who is better at killing. This is why Sandor prefers being called the hound or dog than Sir.
Sandor was never chivalrous. He killed boys when ordered to, abandoned a city in despair, and lied about being a knight to cross the Trident, thus proving non-knights are the greater liars.
@@matro2 He himself never claimed or pretended to be. He hated chivalry because his brother was made a knight. He was right about a knight being more about being a good killer and loyal dog to his lord.
I'm not into Game of Thrones but even I have heard of the notorious Red Wedding. It's so infamous that even the Sesame Street parody skit mentioned it as an inside joke for the parents watching with their little ones.
Lol I mean Martin just copied and pasted from an event in history. Like most of the key points in his novels... largely copied and pasted from medieval history.
@@mijanhoque1740 I know I'm a year late, but he isn't necessarily wrong. There's been many "Red Wedding Like" events throughout history, its actually kinda crazy.
I would like to add that by ensuring the Red Wedding to happen, Tywin Lannister had effectively destroyed the rules entirely. Frey men were hunted down without mercy, and very few Lords were actually honest in their loyalty to Joffrey. Hospitality was sacred in Westeros, and if the new rulers were not going to enforce that law, then neither would they have cause to follow. Furthermore, the name Lannister was viewed with hatred rather than fear and respect.
Here I would disagree. If we see how other great wars in Westeros were fought (the Dance of the Dragons, the war between the Dragonriders and Dorne, the 1000-years War between the North and the Vale for the Sisters) than you could say that there was little if any honor and quite a lot of barbarism in that conflicts, too.
@@marcbartuschka6372 no those were battles combat things Westeros would be ok with what Tywin did was seen as an affront to the gods and laws of men killing while under the lords protection westeros is a medieval so they have their codes of conduct and this is one of them and the highest of them all next to kinslaying even Borros Baratheon forbid aemond to harm Luke as he was under his protection by those laws
@@durrangodsgrief6503 I think that is not correct. The rape of the Sisters is a source of anger even centuries later on the Isles - so barbaric as the the Northerners (Stark, Bolton and others) acted. And there was a lot of murder and betrayal and so during the Dance of the Dragons and the war with Dorne. The Red Wedding was something cruel, but it was not that much worse than other things wo have happened. The guestright is honored most in the North and seems more a thing of the old gods (not in the same way of the Seven. That does not mean that the faith of the Seven condems such action, but I doubt that the Faith will cry about the sin for many years. It will surly anger them less than lets say the marriage-customs of the Targaryans...
I'd read the books so I knew it was coming... but gods it hit hard. You don't really get to know Robb in the books, he's told through the perspective of other characters (a bit of a hint that he wasn't going to last, when you think about it). But in the series, he is genuinely likable. He makes mistakes, serious ones, but you still find yourself hoping he'll get out of it. So when we come to the Twins and we know what's coming, it hits all the same.
And who are you, the proud lord said, that I must bow so low, Only a cat of a different coat, that's all the truth I know. In a coat of gold or a coat of red, a lion still has claws, And mine are long and sharp, my lord, as long and sharp as yours. And so he spoke, and so he spoke, that Lord of Castamere, But now the rains weep o'er his hall, with no one there to hear. Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall, and not a soul to hear.
It was never about plunder, Balon just wanted to get one over the Starks so he could avenge the humiliation he suffered after his failed rebellion...a humiliation he suffered because his attempt at "Paying the Iron Price" backfired. Suffice to say, Balon is not a very reflective man.
Nope. I saw nothing wrong with him. Roose Bolton betrayal was an act of pragmatism since the war was not favourable to Northmen anymore as Tyrell Lannister armies already secured the Iron Throne in King's Landing. Had Roose Bolton followed Robb Stark blindly, House Bolton also wouldn't be saved from the wrath of Tywin Lannister
Amusingly although the red wedding was the highpoint of Lannister triumph and dominance over Westeros, everything would go downhill from here as Joffrey, Tywin, Kevan would bite the dust in rapid succession, leaving the house in hands of mad woman parnoid that their allies are plotting against her and hellbent on destroying lynchpin alliance with Tyrells that is keeping them in power with her insane schemes. While old surviving enemies like Stannis and North are readying to fight back and new threats like Aegon/Dorne and eventually Dany are emerging to contest their hold on power too. If house lannister ends up with only Tyrion as surviving member of main branch by end of game of thrones series wouldn't be surprised.
Roose Bolton stated that Vargo Hoat cut off Jaime's hand to incur the wrath of Tywin hoping to pin the blame on being under Bolton's orders and ruin any chance of the plot happening. the goat was known to be a brute but not without low cunning.
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy yeah everyone in the books is more pragmatic than the show where they all emotions and shit. for example Jaime later on ditched cersei and stopped loving her when he left the capital. she even sent him a letter asking him to come back and rescue her from the faith but he burned the letter
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy but didn't Roose Bolton make sure Jaimie let's Tywin know it was Vargo Hout and didn't it lead to Tywin sending the Mountain there to take Harranhall and brutally kill him? Vargo was a clown
The War of The Five Kings is the really complicated and being fought in many fronts and even outside the battlefield, and therefore is the most realistical war I ever saw in fiction. George Martin is for sure a real genius in his understanding of human greed for power at all cost.
Catelin Stark was a walking disaster in life and after. Never perceived Little Finger and her sister, mistreated and never realized who Jon Snow was, released The King Slayer before the exchange, arranged the Red Wedding, calmed down just for eating Frey's salt and bread at The Twins!, and goes on and on. She, inadvertently, hurt and killed a lot of people.
"I suppose you would have spared the boy and told Lord Frey you had no need of his allegiance? That would have driven the old fool right back into Stark's arms and won you another year of war. Explain to me why it is more noble to kill ten thousand men in battle than a dozen at dinner." - Tywin Lannister
me when I saw a new video uploaded: *visible excitement* me when I saw what the topic of the video is: aight, I guess it's time to boil my blood again... sweet...
10.000 men at battle may be bloodier, but they are all armed, all facing their enemies, ready for action. Inviting 12 of your friends to dinner then slaughtering them before they stand a chance of defending themselves is you could say. Less honorable, but I'm old fashioned and still believe in guest rights 😊
As much as the Red Wedding horrifies me, Tywin kind of has a point in that it is more economically sound to kill off the leadership than slaughter a workforce in its thousands. Looking at this as he would, mind. Still horrifies me.
@@Tahkaullus01 But it all backfired. Northmen who're still Stark Loyalists have joined Stannis and The Brotherhood Without Banners are growing in influence. Hell, one of Tywin's earlier actions was killing Princess Elia Martell and her daughter Rhaenys Targaryen, and now Elia's son Aegon is invading Westeros with an army looking for payback.
Honestly yes but in the books he’s only 18 so I get he wasn’t wise enough to realize a King can’t break his paths to his bannerman. The feudal contract depends on that Robb was no true King
Possibly, he certainly looks the part, I actually heard some theory a really long time ago, speculating that Roose (and technically the entire Bolton family as a whole) has closer ties to "The Others" (White Walkers) in some form or fashion. At least that's how it is in the books.
Glad Rob was finally defeated. Weird how Clagane rode with a few dozen men for many months amongst tens of thousands of enemies and still managed to defeat them so easily group by group. Nothing mattered after Renley's death
Robb's execution of erring but influential Northern lords, breaking his vow to the Freys and marry a Silent Sister, combined with Lannister gold and promises, ended Robb and the Northern campaign.
The women he married wasn’t a silent sister, she was just a noblewomen and daughter of Lord Westerling who was a nurse. Silent Sisters can’t marry, they can’t even speak to other Living people, only to themselves or the dead.
This made me NOT regret for never watching Game of Thrones before and only on this channel. This is too much even for me. Also, it’s no wonder why Attack on Titan never held back until the very end. To be exact, those military actions and nude giants eat peoples even paled in comparison to this infamous Red Wedding here.
@@AaronGuest Oh, I know it's based off the books, pretty sure there was nothing about Duskendale in the show and Arya was already out of Harrenhall before the North ever retook it in the show. But I don't recall anything from the books that said the Karstarks had a part in the Red Wedding. I knew they deserted after the execution of Lord Rickard, but my impression was they either scattered or tried to return to the North afterward. Granted, it's been a LONG time since I reread the books.
Most knew Tywin Lannister to be ruthless but I doubt anyone expected him to be ruthless to the point of selling his honor. You could expect this from the Freys but not the storied Lannisters. Tytos weakness really did a number on his son.
@Wizards and Warriors, you know established titles is a scam right? Scottland has made it clear that you dont get to call yourself a lord and that they don't recognize land ownership of this scale right, please don't scam your viewers
I can’t think straight of any monarch in Westeros who has fallen so calamitously than Robb Stark. When the end comes for him it arrives in a spectacular and utterly brutal fashion. 3:23 Also, isn’t Reek and Theon one and the same?
The red wedding is why I smiled when Tywin got murdered in a toliet by his dwarf son while taking a shit. Couldn't have asked for a more poetic justice.
But we got to admit we probably want to do the same damn thing that he did if we was in his position. Wasting all my men on a battlefield when I can easily have one of my connections kill his officers and yes some of his loved ones at a wedding just in the war.
@@gfilmer7150 so you rather fight a long prolonged war using up all manpower and resources then take out the king and prime minister and put a proxy that you can control in power? I'm sorry with all due respect that's just dumb.
Reek was another character that served Ramsay before he was killed, Ramsay took his place to save his own life and masqueraded as him for a bit, then he turned Theon into the new Reek after he tortured him. In the show Ramsay just had the bright idea to name Theon Reek because he reeked.
The writing of George was so amazing you could see the Red Wedding from a mile (And a book prior Daenerys saw it in a vision) so the event is surprising but anticipated.
@@Amantducafe lol had to look it up huh? Because people OWE you an explanation huh? Not suprised you need it spoon fed to you. Very moronic to assume that theres no explanation. Little wonder you think his writing is "amazing" 😂
Let’s imagine Robb for some reason just doesn’t trust the Freys, and before they go in tells his men not to get drunk, to keep their weapons and armour/ chainmail on when out in tents and most importantly has his personal guard ready.Now in that case, here’s what would happen: They would play up their merriment, and be mummers, making the freys let up their guard.When Freys begin their attack, they are surprised as suddenly they find their cross bows not killing the people, and loyal men storm in armed and sober.Roose would have no idea as he came late, and so would likely fall, Robb wins and gets Arya, but with some casualties.Now in this case he has another heir, and listens to his mother to go north and stay north, taking his wife, his men, and with the freys demise having free passage north.Some bolton men would likely surrender and switch sides if they saw the odds against them.He meets with Howland reed, and with the lord and ladies he sent to the Neck, who help coordinate getting past Moat Caitlin, and passing word to get more men.He then removes the iron born out, as they will be similarly poor in state to canon, and now is back in the north.White harbour will send more men to help him, and now he can begin the northern campaign.Ramsay will try and defeat him, knowing his father is now dead and he will be next to fall.The Ryswells and Dustins may join with Ramsay, and Arnolf Karstark, but that’s all since the other houses are loyal and no hostages exist for the boltons.Robb marches and retakes Winterfell, as it is currently abandoned, gaining him more strength.He then decides first to retake Deepwood Motte, gaining him more support and capturing Asha.Once that’s done the entire west shore of the north will be free of ironborn, and with Euron down south he can breath.If the wilding army is soon after, he goes to the wall, and reunites with Jon.There Sam could tell him Bran went north of the wall, and he may also learn from the Manderlies before hand Rickon was on Skagos.He helps Jon, and with Stannis coming the effect is similar, but Robb with the authority over the north, Jon as his brother and advisor, manages to get the wildings on his side to come down if they don’t break the laws and agree to fight against any enemies who may wish the people of the north harm.With Stannis, he recognises the opportunity, and says if Stannis agrees the north may stay independent, he will bethroth Rickon when found to Shireen, and support him as King of all lands south of Riverrun.He and Stannis go defeat Ramsay, who has much less men with the starks still alive, no hostages to ensure loyalty and Roose and his men either dead or defected.He will then tell Jon he must be his heir, Jon agrees after telling him of the others.Hardhome goes much better then book, as with much more ships they get there quick and likely many more wildings live.Baelish hears Robb lives, keep in mind Joffrey still dies in Purple wedding so Sansa still is taken, and that by this point Rickon Stark, and Arya Stark have been found, and senses a opportunity.He would reveal Sansa is alive and go north, trying to use this to curry favour with Catelyn and Robb, perhaps even to gain something like Catelyns hand in marriage as he is now Lord Protector of Vale, but with Sansa reunited they learn of the truth as Sansa is now safe with her family, and get him killed, all the lords of the vale don’t care so all good.Now the succession is pretty good, and his wife gets pregnant without Sybelle being allowed to come north as Sybelle would likely reveal herself to be a traitor at some point as Jeyne herself figures out in canon.Now the lannisters are very shaky as the red wedding failed, the freys are gone, the riverlands and North armies are still pretty healthy, and Tywin and Joffrey are dead.The lannisters cannot send men north now, and with the ironborn attacking the reach and the golden company arriving in westeros/ stormlands they are screwed.Stannis and the north plus vale and riverlands march south again, and defeat the lannisters, the tyrells switch sides again, and now the golden company faces issues.Robb goes back north, and when Dany comes she finds Stannis as King of the six kingdoms, Dorne on Stannis and the norths side for the death of Cersei, Gregor Clegane, etc, and Robb as King in the north.Neither want Dany as a ruler, and the people of the north love Robb so will tell her she is not wanted, similar to the south with the unpopular greedy Lannisters no longer being in charge and food much better.
In the books Ramzy snow pretends to be reek, as not to get killed by rodrick castle, who brings him to winterfell and throws him in the dungeon. Later theon captures winterfell and releases Ramsey who claims to be reek.
Here comes the king in the north!!! The king in the north!!! The king in the north!!!! Here comes the king in the north!! The king in the north!!! The king in the north!!!
You probably only watched the show. In the book a lot of Northern lords were taken captive so their families would bend the knee. Smalljon Umber and a few other northern heirs died defending Robb, that's why it was so disliked when they had Smalljon join Ramsay instead of going to join Jon, and why it doesn't make since that most northerners didn't join Jon when he marched on Ramsay in the show, since many of the northern lords had family killed at the Red Wedding. In the book the whole north is plotting against the Bolton's, because the North Remembers, but in the show while they say that the North Remembers, it remembers nothing.
@@AaronGuest no, I'm talking about the books. I've read them three times now. That's why I'm so shocked that I never noticed that Great Jon was still alive at the Twins. I thought he was killed, I don't remember anyone being spared and taken captive. I remember Catelyn Stark was supposed to be taken hostage but the Freys went too far and murdered her instead. Maybe I need to pay attention to those details on my next readthrough. As far as GoT, it doesn't exist to me and I won't watch it anymore because it gets too confusing trying to remember all these details that the show gets wrong so I just don't watch it anymore.
@@dookieshoe2905Frey's took several prisoners at the Twins, including one of the Manderley sons, which is why Wyman had to pretend kill Davos, to convince them of his loyalty and secure his son's freedom. Best passage in the books, except maybe Septon Merribald and Nimble Dick. Oh, and "Is there gold in the village?". The North remembers, Lord Davos. The North remembers, and the mummer's farce is almost done. My son is home.
I hope you go back to what happened to Theon at Winterfell in a future video. It seems you skipped it to come back at a certain point, I hope that is the case.
House Frey is a laughable house, no honor but more pride with immature behavior. That was their downfall. House Bolton was an ancient enemy of House Stark, and should have never been trusted and should have been taken down from the beginning. House Lannister was a prosperous house until Tywin came into power from the Reyne-Tarbeck Rebellion, he was criticized for his inhumane actions against the Martells and Starks and was never trusted by any house. So my point is all three houses lost their honor along with their reputation for this specific event, it’s either a shame or joyful that two died the same way Catelyn and Robb did but Tywin was killed by his own son.
th battle of the fords was not a decisive lannister defeat. Tywin chose to withdraw and in good order. a decisive defeat would have been a Lnnister army being routed or Tywin killed or captured. it was a very minor victory as it achieved nothing strategic.
Personally for this kind of story I perfer Georges writing style quite alot, the way everything that happens in the story has expected and realistic reactions is almost like he had multiple massive maps of Westeros with all the characters and armies on it and he wargames the scenario out on that and fine tunes the story into a book.
طاب يومكم اعزائي ملائكة الحرس الشديد للسماء يصرف لكل 100 يوم ارضي القادمة خمس خزنات من المال أو الذهب أو المجوهرات أربعة خزنات منها لجميع الملائكة تقسم بينهم بالتساوي .وخزنة واحدة لجميع نساء الجنة والحور العين تقسم بينهم بالتساوي . مستشار الخالق
Robb Stark is overrated as heck. He deserved the red wedding alone for wanting to behead my boy Tyrion for "oathbreaking" What a hypocrite, people overhype him.
It's nice to get away from the real world with this channel! Also So very disappointed with the last season of this series. Loved it all just disappointed.
A very good video, and the only "mistake" I noticed was that Brienne as far as I know was no Ser in full right (although I bet she could beat alomost all Sers in combat and had more honor and dignity than the most). Although I hated the change in the shopw with replacing the Westerling.girl with this dumb foreigner-woman, the Red Wedding was executed quite well, pun fully intended. The moment when the music kicks in... Of course since I read the books before I was not that surprised. It says quite a lot when Robb Stark acted more a fool than Edmure Tully (who was never claimed to be a genius). The Red Wedding was of course extremly cruel. On the other hand it was also a very clever move. Since it almost ended the war in the Riverlands, I think many commoners will not have mourned their captured or deceased nobles too much. It should also be mentioned that I think at this point Robb Stark was preparing to betray the Riverlanders a second time (by sending almost all his men into the North and letting them deal with the combined Tully-Lannister forces). He may have accepted the title of King and the North and the Riverlands but he always treated the Riverlanders as subjects of second status, so I would not say he was always driven by honor. From the perspective of many parts of the Riverlands the barbaric crimes still had quite some positive aspects. The picture all in all may be a little bit more grey, if you think about it from different points of view. .
Robb wasn't going to betray them at all, he was going back North to liberate it, then raise more troops, (he took less then half of the North's strength south with him) then he was going to return south. And no one said Robb was more a fool then Edmure, thats just fake news.
@@AaronGuest Well that Edmure told him to spare Lord Karstark WAS a good advice, and Edmure did not sabotage the alliance with the Freys (he was even willing to marry a girl he never had seen to rescue it). Is it not impressive how Robb was able to anger two of his strongest allies? And let us be honest. If Robb would have led his forces into the North, they would never be able to return to help the Riverlands. The combined armies of the Reach and Lannisters would have had enough time to cross the River either at the Ruby Ford or other places and march on. There was little left to hold more than some strongholds, and so the northern Riverlands very likely would have been sacked like the southern.
@@marcbartuschka6372 His advice wasn't good. Karstark had already sent all his men away searching for Jamie, which is a whole other level of high treason. If Robb kept him alive he would've been seen by his northern lords as weak, and they all the powerul ones would start thinking that they could do anything, and just spend some time in a cell. Not to mention that by murdering those two Lannisters who were Robb's he not only massively undermined his king, but he also massively endangered the lives of Sansa and every other northern prisoner/hostage the Lannisters had, Karstark had to die. He did mess up with the Freys in any other situation however, their relationship would've been repairded with Edmure's marriage, also they had to pressure him into it to make for them even needing the Freys on the first place, because of Edmure's disobeying orders and his failure at the Battle of the Fords. No being honest 100% would've been able to rally his men back south, with them having 25k plus troops, along with their already almost 20k strong force. (Cause Roose is loyal here so he doesn't send majority of Robb's loyal foot out to die) The Lannister/Tyrell alliance was falling apart, both Tywin and Joffrey would've died, massively hindering the Lannister's, and odds are at this point the Vale also would've declared for them bevause of Baelish, and this isn't even mentioning that the Lannister/Tyrell's would've had wars on multiple fronts now, with Stannis being held up in Dragonstone, Euron invading the Reach, and (F)Aegon invading in the Stormlands. Robb Victory would've happened 100%.
@@AaronGuest I think that is wrong. To have a prisoner has nothing to do with weakness. It is more weak if you must kill your enemy to have controll over him. And rulers are stupid if they kill without thinking about what will come out of that. So Robb again prooved to be a inept, stupid ruler. And I think the impression that the lords must follow Robbs every command has a wrong idea how such armies work. The armies of Westeros are NOT Roman legion with strict discipline. They have a duty to support their liege lord, but they are not just his mindless minions. A lord sending men after a highly important fugitive is no treason (although it may be reason to argue with him). The murder of the two prisoners was also hardly that much of a sin,(I mean it was horrible but nothing what happen once or then). He was a grieving father who saw the murder of his own blood being released by the mother of his "king". So he overreacted but if Robb would have lock him up but show some clemency for his loss would not make him look weak. By the way if you want to follow your arguments, than Robb would have to kill his mother too, since she had released his most valued hostage - but she was not even put in a cell. Wasn't THAT really weak? The blood of nobles should not be wasted easily and sane rulers did not spill it so easy as Robb do if it pleases him. Since if you as a ruler start with it there will always people who ask themself if they will not be next. A prisoner could always be killed later, but a dead man is of little use. I also do not believe that the North could have won, not after the Reach-Westland-alliance. Robb would have never be able to lead his men into the North AND back again to rescue the Riverlands (I mean the distances are huge - and by the way he even had no safe passage towards the North when he wanted to abandon the Riverlands since the Ironmen blocked the way through the Neck at that point - although surely not much longer).
Error with regards to battle of Duskendale, no stormlords would be fighting for the lannisters, they be either dead of retreated back with stannis after defeat at blackwater.
In the books some where captured and bent the knee to King Joffrey. The Connington I know are one of the Storm Lords that bent the knee to Joffrey. So it’s possible some joined in that battle as a first act of service to their new liege
@@mysteryjunkie9808 Quite possible, not there are no named examples. As only houses named fighting in that battle for the crown are reach or westerland houses. Only Connington of any importance that every appears is Jon Connington and he with Aegon VI/Fake aegon in exile and lost his land during rebellion for being Dragon loyalist.
No it wasn't the Brotherhood is not a direct threat to House Frey In Merret Frey epilogue one of the outlaws clearly states that if they let Merret go for Ranson, the next thing Walder Frey will do is send 100 Knights to hunt the outlaws, in reality after the death of Dondarrion the Brotherhood is little more a nuisance to Lannister and Freys now that the fighting is over in Riverlands since all they were doing during the war was loot some of their supply trains and kill some of their scouts and outriders and hope not to be catched by the Mountain or Vargo Hoat in the process
@@ChristianAuditore14 hahaha you really think a band of some 50 outlaws can actually Storm one the Strongest Castle in Westores i.e The Twins and can just kill all the Frey Household
Red wedding is a case in point with regards to how the honour of house stark leaves them vulnerable to the machinations of less honourable, more ruthless and political savvy such as Tywin and Roose. As for all Robb's military victories, his political stupidity and naivety and putting his trust in the wrong people, combined with one major event outside of his control is what doomed him to death and defeat.
@@John_Smith_86 Disagree as for all the mistakes, he made and word broken, he and his loyal men and family, didn't deserved to be butchered like cattle at a wedding. Which is one of Tywin's only mistakes he made as head of house lannister as the sheer brutality and senseless murder involved. Failed to act as an ibject lesson and hardened the hearts of all his houses, remaining enemies as they realised that there could be no surrender or terms with the old lion.
@@wedgeantillies66I disagree, Robb broke his oath to Frey, even after all Frey has done for him. Let's see, Walder's eldest Ser Steveron died for Robb, Martyn rivers and his outriders kept tabs on Tywin, plus Frey's help Robb win all his battles. Plus Frey turned against their own kin for Robb, ex. Walder's second son Emmon Frey married to Genna Lannister, and had son's, Cleo's Frey as well as Martyn Frey. After all Frey had sacrificed, Robb dishonored them for lower house sworn to the enemy. What an insult, Robb was dumb to think Frey's wouldn't want revenge. Northmen are also hypocrites as well, they also talk and preach about importance of honor, but when Robb dishonored Frey, they turned a blind eye.
@@chaos_knight_xy No problem and i agree that Robb breakin g his pledged word to the frey's was a stupid move, born of honour and a lack of political understanding. However for me, the frey's always had a foot in both camps to ensure that they ended up on the winning side, no matter what happened or how the war ended. Robb wins they end up with a queen for a relative, if Robb loses they end up with lordship of the riverlands and ties to the new lord of the north as it worked out. So robb breaking his word, just provides the frey's with necessary wriggle room to extricate themselves and perform a quick about face.
For all his faults, Tywin wasn't wrong about ending the war by killing the heads. He saved countless lives and who's to say Robb would have won anything after that point? Sometimes a dishonourable act, though evil in of itself, can have good intentions. Edit: Of course I know what happened, guys. I was playing devil's advocate from a certain perspective, geez. XD
He was wrong. He completely changed the rules, by doing that he's caused his men to be hunted down by the thousands without mercy in the Riverlands. Tywin saying that was him trying rationalize his unforgivable act. Him doing this is why his house will fall, along with houses Frey and Bolton.
the problem with that is the next guy that comes around the corner will only accept your unconditional surrender or just burn down your entire capital..................as it happened barely a few years later.
Tywin wasn't doing it to save lives, that's just him justifying his actions. He cares little about the lives of northerners. He plotted the wedding because he was mad about getting upstaged by a teenage boy. So for him to win, he had to stoop to betrayal. The Freys would take the credit and blame and Boltons would become wardens of the north. Tywin did this because he couldn't beat Robb in battle. That garbage about saving lives is just him using it as a justification but what he has done will not actually last as he has made allies with 2 houses that are very hated and the north remembers. He really didn't save lives, Boltons have many enemies up north and Stannis has gained allies, ready to fight them. Freya have enemies in the Riverlands and there are people taking their family members down in vengeance. His alliance is an unstable one but he doesn't live to realise that.
I wanna say like half of your videos I don’t watch because the irrelevance although your graphics are very appealing i would rather be informed in things that has more sustenance . I feel the game of thrones is played out . And that your reliving this tv show/book . And only focusing on certain time lines. I think you missed an opportunity to show more rather than stay on this basic story
Go to establishedtitles.com/Wizards and help support the channel. They are now running a massive Black Friday Sale, plus 10% off on any purchase with code Wizards. Thanks to Established Titles for sponsoring this video!
Bruh 😕
Say Wizards and Warriors could you do a series on Marko Kloos’s Frontlines series of books?
Can’t wait until you guys cover Euron in the books. When you realize GoT and now Rings of Powers writers filled the stuff down so they could understand…
Not real fans but just seeking a profit. The thing is if they went through with it all. People would love them for their decisions and execution of them
Wizards and Warriors when are you going to do another Sci-Fi video.
malazan empire please
That quote from tywin about killing 12 people being more honourable than killing a thousand in battle is quite hypocritical when you realize that literally thousands of northern troops were killed during the red wedding, massacred in their sleep or whilst drunk on liquor
It's also incredibly rich from the man who ordered Gregor Clegaine to burn the Riverlands "from the God's Eye to the Red Fork".
Plus this is the guy who claimed to put family first yet treated his own son like shit just for being a dwarf. He also ignored or just saw his other children as the pawns that would make the family name great yet he terrified them as children and hardly showed any love or so much as even a smile to them. When he died and they showed his corpse with a smile it creeped the hell out of Jaime and Cersei.
the problem with the idea is: the man who can kill 12 people at dinner has absolutely no reason to killing a thousand in battle, and those thousands know it. this is a good way to ensure you will never again manage a deal without overwhelming force.
I disagree. Tywin only wanted the nobles dead. Roose and Walder on otherhand knew that they needed to killoff all loyal soldiers to consolidate their rule.
Men in battle have an expectation of danger and death, less so at dinner.
Weddings always make me cry. Except for the upcoming Purple Wedding.
That one always makes me laugh.
It makes me rejoice.
Purple wedding?
@@nebsam715 Joffery's wedding/death.
@@nebsam715 the wedding were Joffrey died is called the purple wedding
I raged quit the show for a good month
Asoiaf fact:The mountain is the reason his brother Sandor spits in knighthood. If a monster like Gregor can become a knight than a knight is truly just someone who is better at killing. This is why Sandor prefers being called the hound or dog than Sir.
The irony is that he says "he's not a knight" yet behaves like one, is the tragedy of his character that he actually cares.
@@Amantducafe That's why Sandor is so great. He spits on the idea of chivalry yet he's one of the few who truly believes in the ideals.
Sandor was never chivalrous. He killed boys when ordered to, abandoned a city in despair, and lied about being a knight to cross the Trident, thus proving non-knights are the greater liars.
@@matro2 He himself never claimed or pretended to be. He hated chivalry because his brother was made a knight. He was right about a knight being more about being a good killer and loyal dog to his lord.
@@ktheterkuceder6825 A knight is more of a role than a moral distinction. Like a police officer. There's good and bad.
I'm not into Game of Thrones but even I have heard of the notorious Red Wedding. It's so infamous that even the Sesame Street parody skit mentioned it as an inside joke for the parents watching with their little ones.
Lol I mean Martin just copied and pasted from an event in history. Like most of the key points in his novels... largely copied and pasted from medieval history.
@@-VOR Barely copied, more like inspired and made his own unique creation and world
@@mijanhoque1740 🙄 another one
@@-VOR You mean another person who’s correcting your terrible take
@@mijanhoque1740 I know I'm a year late, but he isn't necessarily wrong.
There's been many "Red Wedding Like" events throughout history, its actually kinda crazy.
I would like to add that by ensuring the Red Wedding to happen, Tywin Lannister had effectively destroyed the rules entirely. Frey men were hunted down without mercy, and very few Lords were actually honest in their loyalty to Joffrey. Hospitality was sacred in Westeros, and if the new rulers were not going to enforce that law, then neither would they have cause to follow. Furthermore, the name Lannister was viewed with hatred rather than fear and respect.
Here I would disagree. If we see how other great wars in Westeros were fought (the Dance of the Dragons, the war between the Dragonriders and Dorne, the 1000-years War between the North and the Vale for the Sisters) than you could say that there was little if any honor and quite a lot of barbarism in that conflicts, too.
@@marcbartuschka6372 no
@@marcbartuschka6372 no those were battles combat things Westeros would be ok with what Tywin did was seen as an affront to the gods and laws of men killing while under the lords protection westeros is a medieval so they have their codes of conduct and this is one of them and the highest of them all next to kinslaying even Borros Baratheon forbid aemond to harm Luke as he was under his protection by those laws
@@durrangodsgrief6503 I think that is not correct. The rape of the Sisters is a source of anger even centuries later on the Isles - so barbaric as the the Northerners (Stark, Bolton and others) acted. And there was a lot of murder and betrayal and so during the Dance of the Dragons and the war with Dorne. The Red Wedding was something cruel, but it was not that much worse than other things wo have happened.
The guestright is honored most in the North and seems more a thing of the old gods (not in the same way of the Seven. That does not mean that the faith of the Seven condems such action, but I doubt that the Faith will cry about the sin for many years. It will surly anger them less than lets say the marriage-customs of the Targaryans...
@@marcbartuschka6372 wrong.
This legitimately shocked me when I saw it first on TV, that’s when the show was really good. Thanks wizards 👍
I had to take a day off
I'd read the books so I knew it was coming... but gods it hit hard.
You don't really get to know Robb in the books, he's told through the perspective of other characters (a bit of a hint that he wasn't going to last, when you think about it). But in the series, he is genuinely likable.
He makes mistakes, serious ones, but you still find yourself hoping he'll get out of it. So when we come to the Twins and we know what's coming, it hits all the same.
Weak
Even watching it happen through the lore video is harrowing.
It made a huge impression on me when I read as a teenager in A Storm of Swords.
I never felt as much emotion from anything fictional as I did while watching the red wedding for the first time. Those memories will stay forever
And who are you, the proud lord said,
that I must bow so low,
Only a cat of a different coat,
that's all the truth I know.
In a coat of gold or a coat of red,
a lion still has claws,
And mine are long and sharp, my lord,
as long and sharp as yours.
And so he spoke, and so he spoke,
that Lord of Castamere,
But now the rains weep o'er his hall,
with no one there to hear.
Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall,
and not a soul to hear.
GRR Martin is a genius lyricist 🤯
Ser Roger Reyne, red lion
It's a nice day to start again
It's a nice day for a *red wedding*
It's a nice day to start agaaaiiinnnnn
The Greyjoys were idiots. The Westerlands were just as vulnerable as the North and would have offered far greater plunders.
Raiding some fishing villages instead of GOLD 😎😎😎
i PaY tHe IrOn PrIcE
It was never about plunder, Balon just wanted to get one over the Starks so he could avenge the humiliation he suffered after his failed rebellion...a humiliation he suffered because his attempt at "Paying the Iron Price" backfired.
Suffice to say, Balon is not a very reflective man.
One of the most exciting yet gruesome scenes that I have seen. I thank you all for doing a video on here!
When I read this part in the book, I literally threw the book across the room. I vowed I would kill Roose Bolton if I ever saw him in real life...
Nope. I saw nothing wrong with him. Roose Bolton betrayal was an act of pragmatism since the war was not favourable to Northmen anymore as Tyrell Lannister armies already secured the Iron Throne in King's Landing. Had Roose Bolton followed Robb Stark blindly, House Bolton also wouldn't be saved from the wrath of Tywin Lannister
You wouldn’t be able to
I hope you don't meet his poor innocent actor!
Let’s go
I rejoiced. Death to treason!
Goddamn why did I watch this just to relive the pain.
You my boy Robb
You my boy
Amusingly although the red wedding was the highpoint of Lannister triumph and dominance over Westeros, everything would go downhill from here as Joffrey, Tywin, Kevan would bite the dust in rapid succession, leaving the house in hands of mad woman parnoid that their allies are plotting against her and hellbent on destroying lynchpin alliance with Tyrells that is keeping them in power with her insane schemes. While old surviving enemies like Stannis and North are readying to fight back and new threats like Aegon/Dorne and eventually Dany are emerging to contest their hold on power too. If house lannister ends up with only Tyrion as surviving member of main branch by end of game of thrones series wouldn't be surprised.
When you’re on the Top there’s only one way left to go
@@mysteryjunkie9808 Indeed, particularly when you shoot yourself in the foot, the way Tywin did with his treatment of Tyrion.
Spoiler: You are right. Tyrion was the sole Lannister alive at the end, if you watched the bungled series ender of GoT.
Game of Thrones did a GREAT job of showing how winning battles is not enough to win a war, politics are just as if not even more important
Well Civil wars specifically
Roose Bolton stated that Vargo Hoat cut off Jaime's hand to incur the wrath of Tywin hoping to pin the blame on being under Bolton's orders and ruin any chance of the plot happening. the goat was known to be a brute but not without low cunning.
This complex element I had really forgotten about because I haven't read the books on 7 years or so. The brave companions were an interesting faction
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy yeah everyone in the books is more pragmatic than the show where they all emotions and shit.
for example Jaime later on ditched cersei and stopped loving her when he left the capital. she even sent him a letter asking him to come back and rescue her from the faith but he burned the letter
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy but didn't Roose Bolton make sure Jaimie let's Tywin know it was Vargo Hout and didn't it lead to Tywin sending the Mountain there to take Harranhall and brutally kill him? Vargo was a clown
The War of The Five Kings is the really complicated and being fought in many fronts and even outside the battlefield, and therefore is the most realistical war I ever saw in fiction. George Martin is for sure a real genius in his understanding of human greed for power at all cost.
"And who are you, the proud lord said, That I must bow so low?"
One of my favorite moments in the book and show
Bruh favorite 💀💀💀
Here comes the king in the North!
The king in the North!
The king in the North!
The king in the North!
'I swear I don't get political'
me three drinks later:
Yeah Robb was bound to lose
Catelin Stark was a walking disaster in life and after. Never perceived Little Finger and her sister, mistreated and never realized who Jon Snow was, released The King Slayer before the exchange, arranged the Red Wedding, calmed down just for eating Frey's salt and bread at The Twins!, and goes on and on. She, inadvertently, hurt and killed a lot of people.
That’s what happens when you let women into politics 😂
Yes Catelyen was a POS. Also leaving her crippled and Youngest son alone at Winterfell to play bad politics.
😊
I hated her
That’s why she’s a stonehart
@@darbyohara Moron!
"I suppose you would have spared the boy and told Lord Frey you had no need of his allegiance? That would have driven the old fool right back into Stark's arms and won you another year of war. Explain to me why it is more noble to kill ten thousand men in battle than a dozen at dinner."
- Tywin Lannister
me when I saw a new video uploaded: *visible excitement*
me when I saw what the topic of the video is: aight, I guess it's time to boil my blood again... sweet...
According to George RR Martin, the inspiration for his Red Wedding was the real life Glenclose Massacre in Scotland.
I thought it was the Black Dinner in Scotland that was the inspiration?
@@andersstengard6293 same thing
lol, definitely a fatal attraction 😂
10.000 men at battle may be bloodier, but they are all armed, all facing their enemies, ready for action.
Inviting 12 of your friends to dinner then slaughtering them before they stand a chance of defending themselves is you could say.
Less honorable, but I'm old fashioned and still believe in guest rights 😊
I agree after seeing what the Mongol Empire did to literally everyone who killed their envoys.
As much as the Red Wedding horrifies me, Tywin kind of has a point in that it is more economically sound to kill off the leadership than slaughter a workforce in its thousands.
Looking at this as he would, mind. Still horrifies me.
@@Tahkaullus01 I know, in many ways that is preferable to an open battle and often less risky with higher rewards.
@@The_Daily_Tomato Did he create a situation of perpetual rebellion though?
Now the North will never bow to southern rule again.
@@Tahkaullus01 But it all backfired. Northmen who're still Stark Loyalists have joined Stannis and The Brotherhood Without Banners are growing in influence. Hell, one of Tywin's earlier actions was killing Princess Elia Martell and her daughter Rhaenys Targaryen, and now Elia's son Aegon is invading Westeros with an army looking for payback.
The young Wolf 🐺 should of kept his promise 🤣
Honestly yes but in the books he’s only 18 so I get he wasn’t wise enough to realize a King can’t break his paths to his bannerman. The feudal contract depends on that Robb was no true King
Roose, the ultimate a hole of ASOIAF, also a vampire.
Possibly, he certainly looks the part, I actually heard some theory a really long time ago, speculating that Roose (and technically the entire Bolton family as a whole) has closer ties to "The Others" (White Walkers) in some form or fashion.
At least that's how it is in the books.
I look forward to more ASoIaF coverage. I hope that you will get to the Malazan Book of the Fallen at some point, preferably sooner than later.
Glad Rob was finally defeated. Weird how Clagane rode with a few dozen men for many months amongst tens of thousands of enemies and still managed to defeat them so easily group by group. Nothing mattered after Renley's death
People who study Majapahit history: hey I've seen this one, it's a classic.
People who watched the 4th crusade videos: oh so this is what it’s based on.
@@steffanyschwartz7801 it's actually based on the Black Dinner and the Massacre of Glencoe.
is this about gajah mada?
Robb's execution of erring but influential Northern lords, breaking his vow to the Freys and marry a Silent Sister, combined with Lannister gold and promises, ended Robb and the Northern campaign.
The women he married wasn’t a silent sister, she was just a noblewomen and daughter of Lord Westerling who was a nurse. Silent Sisters can’t marry, they can’t even speak to other Living people, only to themselves or the dead.
please keep going!! you guys know episode 4 insnt in this playlist?
This made me NOT regret for never watching Game of Thrones before and only on this channel. This is too much even for me.
Also, it’s no wonder why Attack on Titan never held back until the very end. To be exact, those military actions and nude giants eat peoples even paled in comparison to this infamous Red Wedding here.
What's your source for the Karstarks taking part in the Red Wedding? I don't recall that, only the Freys and Boltons.
They took part, I don't think the show actually showed them but they did, and this is based of the books, where they say they took part in it.
@@AaronGuest Oh, I know it's based off the books, pretty sure there was nothing about Duskendale in the show and Arya was already out of Harrenhall before the North ever retook it in the show. But I don't recall anything from the books that said the Karstarks had a part in the Red Wedding. I knew they deserted after the execution of Lord Rickard, but my impression was they either scattered or tried to return to the North afterward.
Granted, it's been a LONG time since I reread the books.
Rob Stark dying was one of the most tragic events in the whole story of Game Of Thrones.
Great video!
Most knew Tywin Lannister to be ruthless but I doubt anyone expected him to be ruthless to the point of selling his honor. You could expect this from the Freys but not the storied Lannisters. Tytos weakness really did a number on his son.
@Wizards and Warriors, you know established titles is a scam right? Scottland has made it clear that you dont get to call yourself a lord and that they don't recognize land ownership of this scale right, please don't scam your viewers
Great stuff guys! Nice one
I can’t think straight of any monarch in Westeros who has fallen so calamitously than Robb Stark. When the end comes for him it arrives in a spectacular and utterly brutal fashion.
3:23 Also, isn’t Reek and Theon one and the same?
Heard say the late walder Frey was initially confused as he's not dead in the books before forgetting it's what Catelyn's father referred to him as.
The red wedding is why I smiled when Tywin got murdered in a toliet by his dwarf son while taking a shit. Couldn't have asked for a more poetic justice.
But we got to admit we probably want to do the same damn thing that he did if we was in his position. Wasting all my men on a battlefield when I can easily have one of my connections kill his officers and yes some of his loved ones at a wedding just in the war.
@@attiepollard7847 And his decision backfired.
@@gfilmer7150 Lord Frey was going to get his come up as no matter what. What I am saying any of us would have done the same thing that in the war..
@@attiepollard7847 Not me. Logistics is how you win wars.
@@gfilmer7150 so you rather fight a long prolonged war using up all manpower and resources then take out the king and prime minister and put a proxy that you can control in power? I'm sorry with all due respect that's just dumb.
Not sure which was more brutal the red wedding or obryn getting his eye balls squished
THE NORTH REMEMBERS 🐺❄️⚔️
Wasnt Reek = Theon at some point or did they change that in the tv show?
There was a Reek before Theon in the books. Ramsey killed and impersonated Reek before turning Theon into a new Reek
Reek was another character that served Ramsay before he was killed, Ramsay took his place to save his own life and masqueraded as him for a bit, then he turned Theon into the new Reek after he tortured him. In the show Ramsay just had the bright idea to name Theon Reek because he reeked.
Hilter: starks having own night of long knives
The writing of George was so amazing you could see the Red Wedding from a mile (And a book prior Daenerys saw it in a vision) so the event is surprising but anticipated.
Lol not really. He copied and pasted from an event in history. Most of his key events in the novels are simple taken from medieval history.
@@-VOR Do you even know how inspiration works?
@@Amantducafe lol do you know what a logical fallacy is? Since... you're using one.
@@-VOR And which one would that be? There's a fallacy about calling everything a fallacy without giving an explanation, like your a doing right now.
@@Amantducafe lol had to look it up huh? Because people OWE you an explanation huh? Not suprised you need it spoon fed to you. Very moronic to assume that theres no explanation. Little wonder you think his writing is "amazing" 😂
Let’s imagine Robb for some reason just doesn’t trust the Freys, and before they go in tells his men not to get drunk, to keep their weapons and armour/ chainmail on when out in tents and most importantly has his personal guard ready.Now in that case, here’s what would happen:
They would play up their merriment, and be mummers, making the freys let up their guard.When Freys begin their attack, they are surprised as suddenly they find their cross bows not killing the people, and loyal men storm in armed and sober.Roose would have no idea as he came late, and so would likely fall, Robb wins and gets Arya, but with some casualties.Now in this case he has another heir, and listens to his mother to go north and stay north, taking his wife, his men, and with the freys demise having free passage north.Some bolton men would likely surrender and switch sides if they saw the odds against them.He meets with Howland reed, and with the lord and ladies he sent to the Neck, who help coordinate getting past Moat Caitlin, and passing word to get more men.He then removes the iron born out, as they will be similarly poor in state to canon, and now is back in the north.White harbour will send more men to help him, and now he can begin the northern campaign.Ramsay will try and defeat him, knowing his father is now dead and he will be next to fall.The Ryswells and Dustins may join with Ramsay, and Arnolf Karstark, but that’s all since the other houses are loyal and no hostages exist for the boltons.Robb marches and retakes Winterfell, as it is currently abandoned, gaining him more strength.He then decides first to retake Deepwood Motte, gaining him more support and capturing Asha.Once that’s done the entire west shore of the north will be free of ironborn, and with Euron down south he can breath.If the wilding army is soon after, he goes to the wall, and reunites with Jon.There Sam could tell him Bran went north of the wall, and he may also learn from the Manderlies before hand Rickon was on Skagos.He helps Jon, and with Stannis coming the effect is similar, but Robb with the authority over the north, Jon as his brother and advisor, manages to get the wildings on his side to come down if they don’t break the laws and agree to fight against any enemies who may wish the people of the north harm.With Stannis, he recognises the opportunity, and says if Stannis agrees the north may stay independent, he will bethroth Rickon when found to Shireen, and support him as King of all lands south of Riverrun.He and Stannis go defeat Ramsay, who has much less men with the starks still alive, no hostages to ensure loyalty and Roose and his men either dead or defected.He will then tell Jon he must be his heir, Jon agrees after telling him of the others.Hardhome goes much better then book, as with much more ships they get there quick and likely many more wildings live.Baelish hears Robb lives, keep in mind Joffrey still dies in Purple wedding so Sansa still is taken, and that by this point Rickon Stark, and Arya Stark have been found, and senses a opportunity.He would reveal Sansa is alive and go north, trying to use this to curry favour with Catelyn and Robb, perhaps even to gain something like Catelyns hand in marriage as he is now Lord Protector of Vale, but with Sansa reunited they learn of the truth as Sansa is now safe with her family, and get him killed, all the lords of the vale don’t care so all good.Now the succession is pretty good, and his wife gets pregnant without Sybelle being allowed to come north as Sybelle would likely reveal herself to be a traitor at some point as Jeyne herself figures out in canon.Now the lannisters are very shaky as the red wedding failed, the freys are gone, the riverlands and North armies are still pretty healthy, and Tywin and Joffrey are dead.The lannisters cannot send men north now, and with the ironborn attacking the reach and the golden company arriving in westeros/ stormlands they are screwed.Stannis and the north plus vale and riverlands march south again, and defeat the lannisters, the tyrells switch sides again, and now the golden company faces issues.Robb goes back north, and when Dany comes she finds Stannis as King of the six kingdoms, Dorne on Stannis and the norths side for the death of Cersei, Gregor Clegane, etc, and Robb as King in the north.Neither want Dany as a ruler, and the people of the north love Robb so will tell her she is not wanted, similar to the south with the unpopular greedy Lannisters no longer being in charge and food much better.
Can you do a series of the wars going on in Essos? Siege of Meereen etc
Pure gold.
excellent look forward to next
Can anyone tell me what was Catelyn's contribution to the War?
Isn't red wedding a place in berlin during the 20s and 30s?
Again this awful sponsor, i see it on so many channels now. Beware that the land you buy isnt yours and the '' title'' you get isnt real.
Who else would sponsor them other than scammers?
@@ChristianAuditore14 There are decent sponsors out there but esthablished titles, kamikoto knives and raid shadow legends are really really bad.
name of the soundtrack in 9:58
Castle Darry was sacked, and its Lord was murdered, BEFORE Catelyn was sent south!
Robb reminds me of Phyrrus
Good leader
Bad at making decisions
Cool vid
I do not know if the books are different. But theon is reek so how could he free him from winter fells dungeons
Ramsay was pretending to be a prisoner called Reek
In the books Ramzy snow pretends to be reek, as not to get killed by rodrick castle, who brings him to winterfell and throws him in the dungeon. Later theon captures winterfell and releases Ramsey who claims to be reek.
"The North remembers" - Arya Starks
You may want to remove the ET Sponsorship part from the video. I think you can at least cut out a few parts after upload.
Here comes the king in the north!!!
The king in the north!!!
The king in the north!!!!
Here comes the king in the north!! The king in the north!!!
The king in the north!!!
Wait, the Great Jon is still alive at the Twins? I never caught that before. I didnt know anyone was taken captive at the Red Wedding.
You probably only watched the show. In the book a lot of Northern lords were taken captive so their families would bend the knee. Smalljon Umber and a few other northern heirs died defending Robb, that's why it was so disliked when they had Smalljon join Ramsay instead of going to join Jon, and why it doesn't make since that most northerners didn't join Jon when he marched on Ramsay in the show, since many of the northern lords had family killed at the Red Wedding. In the book the whole north is plotting against the Bolton's, because the North Remembers, but in the show while they say that the North Remembers, it remembers nothing.
@@AaronGuest no, I'm talking about the books. I've read them three times now. That's why I'm so shocked that I never noticed that Great Jon was still alive at the Twins. I thought he was killed, I don't remember anyone being spared and taken captive. I remember Catelyn Stark was supposed to be taken hostage but the Freys went too far and murdered her instead. Maybe I need to pay attention to those details on my next readthrough.
As far as GoT, it doesn't exist to me and I won't watch it anymore because it gets too confusing trying to remember all these details that the show gets wrong so I just don't watch it anymore.
Books and show are very different
@@dookieshoe2905I believe the Lord Umber did die at the RW
@@dookieshoe2905Frey's took several prisoners at the Twins, including one of the Manderley sons, which is why Wyman had to pretend kill Davos, to convince them of his loyalty and secure his son's freedom.
Best passage in the books, except maybe Septon Merribald and Nimble Dick. Oh, and "Is there gold in the village?".
The North remembers, Lord Davos. The North remembers, and the mummer's farce is almost done. My son is home.
I hope you go back to what happened to Theon at Winterfell in a future video. It seems you skipped it to come back at a certain point, I hope that is the case.
18:08 -Who?
House Frey is a laughable house, no honor but more pride with immature behavior. That was their downfall.
House Bolton was an ancient enemy of House Stark, and should have never been trusted and should have been taken down from the beginning.
House Lannister was a prosperous house until Tywin came into power from the Reyne-Tarbeck Rebellion, he was criticized for his inhumane actions against the Martells and Starks and was never trusted by any house.
So my point is all three houses lost their honor along with their reputation for this specific event, it’s either a shame or joyful that two died the same way Catelyn and Robb did but Tywin was killed by his own son.
And I thought my wedding day was bad
The Lannister send their regards
I hope you guys do the Horus Heresy at some point
I also hope for lore videos of the Horus Heresy. Especially with more stories and lores fleshed out in the novel series.
th battle of the fords was not a decisive lannister defeat. Tywin chose to withdraw and in good order. a decisive defeat would have been a Lnnister army being routed or Tywin killed or captured. it was a very minor victory as it achieved nothing strategic.
Established titles is a scam mate.
"Explain to me why it is more noble to kill 10,000 men in battle than a dozen at dinner."
- Tywin Lannister
Personally for this kind of story I perfer Georges writing style quite alot, the way everything that happens in the story has expected and realistic reactions is almost like he had multiple massive maps of Westeros with all the characters and armies on it and he wargames the scenario out on that and fine tunes the story into a book.
Oh no.... oh no no no 😢
Yea, Robb brought this upon himself by dishonouring his word first. Well deserved death
Ironically Jon Snow was more Stark than Caitllyn
Robb shouldn’t have been naive. So what if the kid ends up being a bastard.
Then he's abused by his Frey wife like with Jon.
Established Titles is a scam
Established Titles is a scam! No hate, love the channels, but you should definitely look into it.
the north remembers 🖤🩶🐺
Your sponsor is a scam you know...
George RR Martin lost his stride after this. This was the end of the real story he was telling. It was over.
Or maybe not
What are you on about? AFfC and ADwD are great books
طاب يومكم اعزائي ملائكة الحرس الشديد للسماء
يصرف لكل 100 يوم ارضي القادمة خمس خزنات من المال أو الذهب أو المجوهرات أربعة خزنات منها لجميع الملائكة تقسم بينهم بالتساوي .وخزنة واحدة لجميع نساء الجنة والحور العين تقسم بينهم بالتساوي .
مستشار الخالق
You should really stop making these where the books end, or at least the released chapters from TWOW.
It would be interesting if TWOW came out and we got the details of the four battles of Fire, Ice, Blood and Steel.
Robb Stark is overrated as heck.
He deserved the red wedding alone for wanting to behead my boy Tyrion for "oathbreaking"
What a hypocrite, people overhype him.
It's nice to get away from the real world with this channel! Also So very disappointed with the last season of this series. Loved it all just disappointed.
A very good video, and the only "mistake" I noticed was that Brienne as far as I know was no Ser in full right (although I bet she could beat alomost all Sers in combat and had more honor and dignity than the most).
Although I hated the change in the shopw with replacing the Westerling.girl with this dumb foreigner-woman, the Red Wedding was executed quite well, pun fully intended. The moment when the music kicks in...
Of course since I read the books before I was not that surprised.
It says quite a lot when Robb Stark acted more a fool than Edmure Tully (who was never claimed to be a genius). The Red Wedding was of course extremly cruel. On the other hand it was also a very clever move. Since it almost ended the war in the Riverlands, I think many commoners will not have mourned their captured or deceased nobles too much. It should also be mentioned that I think at this point Robb Stark was preparing to betray the Riverlanders a second time (by sending almost all his men into the North and letting them deal with the combined Tully-Lannister forces). He may have accepted the title of King and the North and the Riverlands but he always treated the Riverlanders as subjects of second status, so I would not say he was always driven by honor.
From the perspective of many parts of the Riverlands the barbaric crimes still had quite some positive aspects. The picture all in all may be a little bit more grey, if you think about it from different points of view.
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Robb wasn't going to betray them at all, he was going back North to liberate it, then raise more troops, (he took less then half of the North's strength south with him) then he was going to return south.
And no one said Robb was more a fool then Edmure, thats just fake news.
@@AaronGuest Well that Edmure told him to spare Lord Karstark WAS a good advice, and Edmure did not sabotage the alliance with the Freys (he was even willing to marry a girl he never had seen to rescue it). Is it not impressive how Robb was able to anger two of his strongest allies?
And let us be honest. If Robb would have led his forces into the North, they would never be able to return to help the Riverlands. The combined armies of the Reach and Lannisters would have had enough time to cross the River either at the Ruby Ford or other places and march on. There was little left to hold more than some strongholds, and so the northern Riverlands very likely would have been sacked like the southern.
@@marcbartuschka6372 His advice wasn't good. Karstark had already sent all his men away searching for Jamie, which is a whole other level of high treason. If Robb kept him alive he would've been seen by his northern lords as weak, and they all the powerul ones would start thinking that they could do anything, and just spend some time in a cell. Not to mention that by murdering those two Lannisters who were Robb's he not only massively undermined his king, but he also massively endangered the lives of Sansa and every other northern prisoner/hostage the Lannisters had, Karstark had to die. He did mess up with the Freys in any other situation however, their relationship would've been repairded with Edmure's marriage, also they had to pressure him into it to make for them even needing the Freys on the first place, because of Edmure's disobeying orders and his failure at the Battle of the Fords.
No being honest 100% would've been able to rally his men back south, with them having 25k plus troops, along with their already almost 20k strong force. (Cause Roose is loyal here so he doesn't send majority of Robb's loyal foot out to die) The Lannister/Tyrell alliance was falling apart, both Tywin and Joffrey would've died, massively hindering the Lannister's, and odds are at this point the Vale also would've declared for them bevause of Baelish, and this isn't even mentioning that the Lannister/Tyrell's would've had wars on multiple fronts now, with Stannis being held up in Dragonstone, Euron invading the Reach, and (F)Aegon invading in the Stormlands. Robb Victory would've happened 100%.
@@AaronGuest I think that is wrong. To have a prisoner has nothing to do with weakness. It is more weak if you must kill your enemy to have controll over him. And rulers are stupid if they kill without thinking about what will come out of that. So Robb again prooved to be a inept, stupid ruler. And I think the impression that the lords must follow Robbs every command has a wrong idea how such armies work. The armies of Westeros are NOT Roman legion with strict discipline. They have a duty to support their liege lord, but they are not just his mindless minions. A lord sending men after a highly important fugitive is no treason (although it may be reason to argue with him). The murder of the two prisoners was also hardly that much of a sin,(I mean it was horrible but nothing what happen once or then). He was a grieving father who saw the murder of his own blood being released by the mother of his "king". So he overreacted but if Robb would have lock him up but show some clemency for his loss would not make him look weak. By the way if you want to follow your arguments, than Robb would have to kill his mother too, since she had released his most valued hostage - but she was not even put in a cell. Wasn't THAT really weak?
The blood of nobles should not be wasted easily and sane rulers did not spill it so easy as Robb do if it pleases him. Since if you as a ruler start with it there will always people who ask themself if they will not be next. A prisoner could always be killed later, but a dead man is of little use.
I also do not believe that the North could have won, not after the Reach-Westland-alliance. Robb would have never be able to lead his men into the North AND back again to rescue the Riverlands (I mean the distances are huge - and by the way he even had no safe passage towards the North when he wanted to abandon the Riverlands since the Ironmen blocked the way through the Neck at that point - although surely not much longer).
Error with regards to battle of Duskendale, no stormlords would be fighting for the lannisters, they be either dead of retreated back with stannis after defeat at blackwater.
In the books some where captured and bent the knee to King Joffrey. The Connington I know are one of the Storm Lords that bent the knee to Joffrey. So it’s possible some joined in that battle as a first act of service to their new liege
@@mysteryjunkie9808 Quite possible, not there are no named examples. As only houses named fighting in that battle for the crown are reach or westerland houses. Only Connington of any importance that every appears is Jon Connington and he with Aegon VI/Fake aegon in exile and lost his land during rebellion for being Dragon loyalist.
Established Titles is entirely fake
i prefer 2D over 3D
W
Isn’t established title confirmed as a scam? Careful peeps.
Scams pay well
Dumb&dumber cutting lady stone heart was one of their worst mistakes
No it wasn't the Brotherhood is not a direct threat to House Frey
In Merret Frey epilogue one of the outlaws clearly states that if they let Merret go for Ranson, the next thing Walder Frey will do is send 100 Knights to hunt the outlaws, in reality after the death of Dondarrion the Brotherhood is little more a nuisance to Lannister and Freys now that the fighting is over in Riverlands since all they were doing during the war was loot some of their supply trains and kill some of their scouts and outriders and hope not to be catched by the Mountain or Vargo Hoat in the process
@@amardeep_singh_chauhan lmao
@@ChristianAuditore14 hahaha you really think a band of some 50 outlaws can actually Storm one the Strongest Castle in Westores i.e The Twins and can just kill all the Frey Household
@@amardeep_singh_chauhan The Red Wedding has pushed Stark Loyalists to join forces with Stannis Baratheon.
Time for an Attack on Titan series. Do it!
I would love manga/anime lore videos by W&W. Not just Attack on Titan but also Naruto, Fullmetal Alchemist, Gundam series or even One Piece.
Red wedding is a case in point with regards to how the honour of house stark leaves them vulnerable to the machinations of less honourable, more ruthless and political savvy such as Tywin and Roose. As for all Robb's military victories, his political stupidity and naivety and putting his trust in the wrong people, combined with one major event outside of his control is what doomed him to death and defeat.
Yea, Robb brought this upon himself by dishonouring his word first. Well deserved death
@@John_Smith_86 Disagree as for all the mistakes, he made and word broken, he and his loyal men and family, didn't deserved to be butchered like cattle at a wedding.
Which is one of Tywin's only mistakes he made as head of house lannister as the sheer brutality and senseless murder involved. Failed to act as an ibject lesson and hardened the hearts of all his houses, remaining enemies as they realised that there could be no surrender or terms with the old lion.
@@wedgeantillies66I disagree, Robb broke his oath to Frey, even after all Frey has done for him.
Let's see, Walder's eldest Ser Steveron died for Robb, Martyn rivers and his outriders kept tabs on Tywin, plus Frey's help Robb win all his battles.
Plus Frey turned against their own kin for Robb, ex. Walder's second son Emmon Frey married to Genna Lannister, and had son's, Cleo's Frey as well as Martyn Frey.
After all Frey had sacrificed, Robb dishonored them for lower house sworn to the enemy.
What an insult, Robb was dumb to think Frey's wouldn't want revenge.
Northmen are also hypocrites as well, they also talk and preach about importance of honor, but when Robb dishonored Frey, they turned a blind eye.
@@chaos_knight_xy No problem and i agree that Robb breakin g his pledged word to the frey's was a stupid move, born of honour and a lack of political understanding.
However for me, the frey's always had a foot in both camps to ensure that they ended up on the winning side, no matter what happened or how the war ended. Robb wins they end up with a queen for a relative, if Robb loses they end up with lordship of the riverlands and ties to the new lord of the north as it worked out.
So robb breaking his word, just provides the frey's with necessary wriggle room to extricate themselves and perform a quick about face.
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who's asha? isnt it yarra?
That's her name in the books.
For all his faults, Tywin wasn't wrong about ending the war by killing the heads. He saved countless lives and who's to say Robb would have won anything after that point?
Sometimes a dishonourable act, though evil in of itself, can have good intentions.
Edit: Of course I know what happened, guys. I was playing devil's advocate from a certain perspective, geez. XD
He was wrong. He completely changed the rules, by doing that he's caused his men to be hunted down by the thousands without mercy in the Riverlands. Tywin saying that was him trying rationalize his unforgivable act. Him doing this is why his house will fall, along with houses Frey and Bolton.
the problem with that is the next guy that comes around the corner will only accept your unconditional surrender or just burn down your entire capital..................as it happened barely a few years later.
@@nvmtt lol, aye. A great case of 'damned if you do, damned if you don't.'
Wrong
Tywin wasn't doing it to save lives, that's just him justifying his actions. He cares little about the lives of northerners.
He plotted the wedding because he was mad about getting upstaged by a teenage boy. So for him to win, he had to stoop to betrayal. The Freys would take the credit and blame and Boltons would become wardens of the north. Tywin did this because he couldn't beat Robb in battle. That garbage about saving lives is just him using it as a justification but what he has done will not actually last as he has made allies with 2 houses that are very hated and the north remembers.
He really didn't save lives, Boltons have many enemies up north and Stannis has gained allies, ready to fight them. Freya have enemies in the Riverlands and there are people taking their family members down in vengeance. His alliance is an unstable one but he doesn't live to realise that.
I wanna say like half of your videos I don’t watch because the irrelevance although your graphics are very appealing i would rather be informed in things that has more sustenance . I feel the game of thrones is played out . And that your reliving this tv show/book . And only focusing on certain time lines. I think you missed an opportunity to show more rather than stay on this basic story