Buffy the Vampire Slayer Talk || s5e07 "Fool for Love" (it's me, im the fool)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 พ.ค. 2022
- get full reactions & edited versions early on patreon: / alleybox
program: premiere pro
check me out ↷
▫ instagram: @alley.box
▫ tik tok: @alley.box
↪ if you would like to send me something it is: PO Box # 2052, Jupiter, FL, 33468
see my unboxings in this playlist: • Unboxing Videos
hope you enjoy :)
▲ Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use. - บันเทิง
“Have you ever seen a chaos demon? All slime and antlers, they're disgusting!” ― Spike in Lover's Walk
Came here to write this. Happy to see it was already taken care of =) Loved the callback here.
Yeah, I did a couple Slayers in my time, I don't like to brag. Who am I kidding, I LOVE to brag. There was this one Slayer, during the Boxer Rebellion..." --Spike in School Hard.
Makes me wonder what else they do. Do they worship chaos like Ethan Rayne? This one seemed like a pretty chill dude.
@@rfresa I wanna know how they get the sweater over the slime and antlers..
Only never mentioned how actualy nice the chaos demon is🤦🏻🤪 in 1998 despite slime antlers his emotion of jealousy despite in flashback in s5 in 2000😂
When you think about it, 99% of the time parents always expect their children to outlive them, but Giles is in a position where he pretty much expects to outlive Buffy, and that's heartbreaking. Also... "effulgent."
I came back to re-watch this episode. Browsing the comments, I still like yours. So have a reply too.
Oh damn, I never thought of that but you’re right. He went in knowing he’d probably live to see her death. That’s heartbreaking.
Angel may be the vampire with a soul, but Spike is the vampire with a heart.
And, may be it's even more important, with sense of humor
Yah and Angel was CURSED with a soul. Spike FOUGHT for his..
They flesh out Spike's psychology so much in this episode...
He's always been a romantic, but when he was turned, his passion for love and for violence got blended together in his mind.
He's always had an obsession for the only human girls who can survive long enough to 'dance all night' with him, and now that the chip has taken away the violence half of the equation, and given him the opportunity to get to know his 'dance partner' on a deeper level, it was inevitable that his obsession turned to love
Very incite full
Spike is a fantastic character, I don't even think the writers realised what they were building. This is my second favourite Spike episode.
YES! Just IMAGINE if Spike really died off in S2. This ep wouldn’t exist!..
Not only the coat from the Slayer in NYC. He also have the scar from first Slayer he killed.
This is so good episode. And it sends ripples through all the series all way back to second season and also to very last episode.
We see modern-day Spike "assembled" in this episode.
Through the course of this episode, we see Spike acquire:
1. His Vampirism
2. His new accent
3. His new name
4. His scar
5. His hairstyle
6. His jacket
I don't know how they consistently write stuff this great.
ALLEY: WTF is "Country Club Casual??"
SPIKE: What can I tell you, baby? I've always been bad.
Unlike Angelus, who lost his Irish accent to an American one with time, Spike consciously changed his to try to sound working class Londoner. Despite his privileged, silver spoon background. Which is a funny parallel to the teenage Giles we see in Band Candy. But it also shows how much of Spike is performative.
Well the Irish had a bit of a hard time in the new world so it makes sense he would try to hide it and gradually lose it.
@@MrSupertallblackman Angelus would welcome that kind of negative attention, though. It would give him a reason to be extra cruel in his killings. "Make fun of my accent, will you? Now I'm going to make you scream for mercy that will never come in yours".
@@jaycievictory8461 Spoliers
Angelus was long gone by the time Angel moved to America.
@@MrSupertallblackman I don't think we know that for sure. There's whole decades of Angelus' "life" that are never covered in the series
@@jaycievictory8461 Spoilers
Not in this one but we do in Angel.
The dichotomy of the Scoobies and Riley is soooo interesting to me. There’s the episode where Buffy wears a halter top and here it shows that the Scoobies just wear regular clothes, but Riley still wears military gear. Like, Riley takes Slaying very seriously, whereas the Scoobies have fun with it. I know that the shot of them eating while he’s prowling is potentially supposed to make the Scoobies look stupid, but tell me that walking around with the bag of chips doesn’t just seem like a family outing.
It shows that they enjoy what they do because it’s a chosen hobby and Riley just sees it as an objective in his indoctrinated job. If Buffy were apart of the scene, that would have gone a little differently because it’s not a chosen hobby for her (she wishes), nor is it an indoctrinated job (she wishes)… but a mix of the two: she’s bound to it by destiny but nevertheless, she finds ways to make it fun - enjoyable even. Riley is just so far removed from understanding the way the Slayer and her Scoobies work that it’s actually laughable that he is around them when the slaying happens.
I think it's more than it's just a hobby, but showing that it's a profession or a mission for Riley as an Initiative soldier, while it's their lives. A life forced on Buffy, that they chose to be a part of but it is all of their lives, not just a job or mission (which saying not JUST is kind of off as it sounds like I may be saying that it's not as much for him, while it is just differently a mission or a life) So being their lives they're doing it their way rather than a professional way. We know they know what they are doing so let them do it their way. And it's an interesting comparison, because Riley obviously had to impress Walsh, and other higher ups, whereas didn't have to try to impress anyone.
@@Logan_Baron Oh, it’s their lives yeah, but only because they chose it. Buffy couldn’t. Riley in a way couldn’t either unless he would rather be without a job or purpose. He has made Buffy his entire life’s purpose at this point and yet still operates in the slaying like this. As if he is still apart of a professional operation when he has given up on all of that to be with Buffy - a person who can’t separate her life from the slaying at all - in any way. It’s very interesting indeed.
It's so easy to forget that Spike is evil, especially in episodes like this. Personally speaking, I think it's the cheekbones.
“Evil” in the Buffy verse is so subjective.
@@pulpted9937 no kidding 👍
Spike is a demon created in the dark reflection of WIlliam the bloody. But he's grown to be so much more. Possibly because William was the kind of person he was.
@@DaDunge you’re saying the human took over the demon somehow? ‘Cause it would take somebody of extraordinary will and character to do that. Most would just end up a monster incapable of reason or love.
@@Girl4Music No, the human is the soul, and the soul passed on when William died. But the complexity of that soul, was such that the demon Spike could not help but change an evolve over time.
William left somethign behind, something that wasn't good so it didn't perish along with William, but something that made it possible for Spike to change. Most vampires are very one note. They are dead, they don't change they don't evolve. Even angel when he's not got a soul is fairly one note.
Remember how Spike reacted when angel told him he had changed "Not us not demons!" because it hit a little to close for Spike.
I love this episode SO MUCH. One of my absolute favorites.
fr my most rewatched episode so far.. ive already seen it like 4 times since i reacted to it
@@alleybox Yes it's Sublime. Now you see why Spike is such a fan favorite snd multifacated character.
This episode is absolutely wild.
Yet again, the Buffyverse packs 84 minutes of story into 42 minutes. I don't know how they do that, because it never feels like things are happening at a frenetic pace. They just write stories where deeply significant (or very entertaining) events happen continually over the entire run time.
@@alleybox lmao ive been dying to see you get to this ep. Fool For Love and Lie To Me are my two most fav underrated eps in the series.
@@alleybox Boxer Rebellion was on June 18 1900 a uprising in China thats where Spike Killed his 1st Slayer a Chinese Woman named Xing Rong
I love how we had the episode back in season 3 where Spike goes around complaining to everyone about the chaos demon that Dru left him for & this episode we finally get to see him
This episode is great! I always loved the reveal that the nickname "William the Bloody" wasn't to do with acts of violence just bloody awful poetry. The background information for Spike is so satisfying, his nerdy/romantic/obsessive stalker qualities were there as a human. Spike's overcompensation for all that through his name change from William to Spike and the general persona he cultivates his heartbreaking. Yes, the leather jacket that Spike wears is the one he took off the Slayer Nikki Wood.
I didn’t see any stalker qualities in him until AFTER her turned. I’m glad Spike wasn’t cancelled after S2. This was a great episode!..
This episode is fucking ART. And yeah, that subway scene gives me goosebumps every time I see it. I watched Buffy & Angel with a friend who hadn’t seen it before, and I swear I heard him gasp a few times during this episode. The editing! The writing! James Marsters! SO GOOD.
This is a brilliant ep. I love that last scene... Spike's expression turning from rage to empathy, you can feel what he feels. And also that there's a special link between the two of them, also conveyed by the fact that they're dressed alike
And their simultaneous exhale before the camera goes black. 🖤
‘Fool For Love’ is one of my TOP 10 favourite episodes too. The way it’s written and directed is just so fucking well done. 🙌
I watched Buffy and Angel when I was 15-19 years old, and this series tore my heart to pieces. I'm 37 years old now, but it's still the most important part of my personality. My becoming. With him I learned love, betrayal, hatred and death. I don't even know if there are still such great things.
Same here, to absolutely everything you said, including age.
I flippin love Dru. Her lines simultaneously make every sense and no sense.
Omg I love her too. She’s one of my favourite characters🥳
@@thescarletteve Rightly so.
Watching Spike fall in love with Buffy is such a fuckin' rollercoaster.
Ikr..
Yes, the trenchcoat origin story.
Spike picked up souvenirs from both slayers. The scar in his eyebrow from the first slayer and the leather coat from the second.
This episode marks the second adjustment to Spike’s age. He started out as “nearly 200” in “School Hard”, it became 126 in “The Initiative” and now its 120 if you count from when he was vamped, or 140ish total.
Maybe the Council gets things wrong sometimes.
Spike himself said his age in some episode..
This is the episode that proves Spike genuinely loves Buffy. She said what, in the moment, is probably the most hurtful thing she could have said to him, and despite wanting revenge, he winds up consoling her. It’s truly an unconditional love.
That “you’re beneath me” from Buffy comment annoyed me because it was contrived. They ONLY did that because of the lady from Spikes past..
I can remember my jaw hitting the floor after this episode ended. That awkward patting on the back. Spike showing that his feelings run so deep, for something that he knows he cannot have. You have said it before... "This fu**ing show!". It changes a person a bit, you know. Not to mention Angel, grittier, more adult, and just amazing all 5 seasons. With all the caring and love on display, there has been and never will be another.
I think the most beautiful part of that end scene is Sarah's face.
You can see her face change ; that Buffy realizes Spike is offering comfort and she consciously lets him.
I am thrilled you loved this one. In my mind Fool for Love is a perfect episode of television, from the writing, to the pacing, to the editing, to the 70s punk get up. Spike made a concerted effort to change everything about himself after being sired, and yet he acts more human than any other vampire we meet in the series, a real anomaly at times. Keep in mind he's still a soulless demon. And still great episodes to come!
Exactly! In comparison, A
Soulless Angel could’ve NEVER show empathy. He needed to have a soul to do it..
This episode is largely responsible for Spike being my Favorite character in the Buffy-verse.
SAME HERE..
The ship I never knew I wanted until Something Blue, and one of my favorite relationships in the series. And you just really feel sorry for William before Drusilla first finds him and brings him into their little family.
"Yo, why am I crying?" -- a pretty good tagline for the show.
Spike's just like all of us, powerless when Buffy cries
...and C'mon, you always knew Spike was a poet
Bruh.....James Marsters should still be getting awards in his Spike role. Bloody hell he's a damn God. He is easily my favorite most underappreciated of the nonmain characters, and expresses relatable complications similar yet unlike Buffy Summers. Growing up with this show series was the best thing ever (next to avatar show) as there's so much to take in and grow with each character focus. Nothing but love, and I'm glad you had your emotional moments when we all did too in the 90s. I'm excited (and scared) for future reactions as the show truly is a cosmic gift unrealized by the mass public. But reactions like yours have revived interests in it. Thank you for the journey Alley, and may the adventure continue forth (with Mr Pointy and a box of Kleenex perhaps)!
Spike getting his scar from one slayer and his famous lather jacket from another is awesome.
And people keep asking me why I'm team Spuffy.
That’s why James Marsters is such a fantastic actor.
Agreed. One of the best episodes on BTVS. The writing and acting is amazing. The way the story builds from Spike and Buffy in the alley to them sitting together in the end is vey emotional. You'll come to see how much of a impact Spike has on Buffy, giving her the strength she needs to the very end, is just epic. And ya, the Jacket Spike wears is a Slayers.... "Here endeth the lesson"
When James first read the script of William the human, he was like "You're ruining the character" lol Then he saw what they were doing, how they were tying it all together, and adding the layers we already had for him. As far as Spike in season 4: James said he was brought in to sort of take the place of Cordelia with the group but it didn't fit and, as you said, didn't do the character justice. Spike is a brilliantly written/acted character.
That conversation that Spike had with the other party goers in 1880 really bothered me. They wouldn't say "police." They would say "Scotland Yard."
One of my fav eps of the whole show! I love that we get to see the origin of Spike's coat, which we never thought we needed.
Yay! It’s Drusilla! Not enough Drusilla, but I’ll take what I can get.
Love Drusilla ❤️
And I'd be fine with Spike beneath me...
Well done, thank you, I will laugh about this for days. Atleast. And yes.
Love her too 💜
I watched Buffy when it first aired and up until this episode, I aways questioned my love for Spike. That ending made it make sense. I've always loved him, the good, the bad, the questionable, and it's moments like this that make me love him even more. This is Spike without a soul. Angelous could never!
I wish the New York Slayer had her own prequel spinoff
One of my favorite episodes of the series. The introspection of Spike's character is one of the most fascinating aspects of the show.
YES,
Just IMAGINE if Spike was killed off in S2! This episode would’ve never existed!..
16:40 "This episode was fucking amazing."
Yes, it is.
One of the best episodes. Fantastic editing, writing, love how it all comes full circle.
Me: expecting this reaction for literal years
Also me: *very focused in Alley's super cute jewelry combo *
I have SOOOO been waiting for you to get here! Squeee!
I know. I cried, I cry still. I am absolutely a fully pledged Biker. Spike's is probably my favorite character arc in the Buffyverse.
IIRC, they used Spuffy in the newsgroups back when the show was still airing. Very good Spike episode. I think William's crush was named Cecilly.
@@mikechappell4156 You're right, and I think Spuffy is still current, tho I'm not up on fandom. Still, now I've heard Bike I want it on a tee: "Ride the Bike!"
The title of this video just reminded me of the words of the late, great Gilbert Gottfried: "YOU FOOL!"
19:51 - They did not tell us that Drusilla was his sire. In fact, they told us Angelus was. Spike, to Angel, in School Hard: "You were my sire, man! You were my...Yoda!" Given this new context, I guess we just have to take "you were my sire" as something comparable to "you were like a father to me" even though he wasn't actually Spike's sire. "You were my Yoda" lends a little weight to the idea that he saw Angelus as a mentor in how to be a vampire. (Either that, or Angelus walks in after the shot cut away and feeds Spike his blood, making both Angelus and Drusilla co-sires or something.)
28:15 - Yeah, this episode gives us a lot of how William transformed into the Spike we know. Each scene gives us little pieces of it. He gets the inspiration for railroad spikes, turned into a vampire, he puts on an accent, he gets that scar on his eyebrow, he dyes his hair, and then he takes the coat. That eyebrow scar is something James Marsters has in real life and the Buffy creative team made it part of the character. And I'll just assume that the Chinese Slayer's blade was enchanted or something, because we usually see vampires heal from their injuries.
I'd say we've got another Spuffy shipper, but you keep calling it Bike. 🤣
Also, I've seen where you're at on Patreon and I felt compelled to pull $5 out of my budget and...donate?...pledge?...subscribe? I'm not sure what the actual Patreon lingo is. Anyway, I'll probably be watching at least that video shortly, and maybe everything else between here and there...or possibly everything from the beginning again.
For what it's worth, the writers said that it was always Drusilla who sired Spike in their minds. It's just that "sire" can mean the direct sire or any vampirical ancestor and they hadn't come up with a word for "grandsire" yet.
@@TheNoybusiness I agree, sort of like talking about Abraham being your father (If you are Jewish) even generations down the line. Angel > Drusilla > Spike, The sire of my sire is my sire. (Or it could just be a retcon)
"... donate?...pledge?...subscribe? I'm not sure what the actual Patreon lingo is."
I think I've seen all those terms used. IMO, they all make perfect sense in the context, and everyone would know exactly what you mean with any of the terms.
@@RICHIEV333 That's what the writers said it meant.
This episode is truly wonderful!! My friend is in my phone as Katie Efulgent because we bonded over Buffy and I could think of no better qualifier. Spike's backstory is glorious. And the scene on the train...epic.
38:16 That's so interesting you think Spike feels more like himself as a vampire. To me, almost everything he does as Spike is performative. Changing his accent, stealing the coat, his bravado. He seeks to change everything about himself, possibly because of that rejection by Cecily which, as you say, cut so deep. And, yes, to be given that same rejection even after having changed almost everything about himself as a vampire, will make this second rejection cut even deeper. I can't give more of my reasoning for feeling that way without venturing into spoilers :)
The performance and self expression mix in such weird ways with him. Because he was putting on a performance as a society guy too, just a very different one. Now he' trying to be seen as who he wants to be, rather than who he's expected to be... but that's very much a reaction to hating his past performance
@@ianburns1167 *Spoilers for Angel* Not sure about your use of "poof" there. I know Spike says it, but it's a homophobic word in UK and I always wondered about the writers having Spike, a Brit, use it. But RE your point, the sensitive poet side doesn't seem to be performative for human William. Cos when Spike gets his soul back and thinks he's gonna die for keeps at end of Angel, his "one last thing" he decides to do is go to an open mic and read his original poetry that got so derided. Which strongly suggests human him was the real him.
@@ianburns1167 It's a homophobic slur. Just so you know. It's like calling someone a 'f*g'.
@@caitlin329 Good to know, thanks for telling me.
@@jaycievictory8461 They intended it as a homophobic slur. In an episode later in this season Buffy and Spike visit a vampire den and Buffy says something about the vampires having “nested” and Spike’s response is “so you’re saying they’re a couple of poofters?”
Not too sure they’re trying to make the character out to be homophobic by him frequently using that homophobic slur, because he never seems to be put off by Willow and Tara, but I do think maybe it might be ignorance by the writers not realizing that it is homophobic for anyone to use that term.
The writers also have Willow frequently use the term “spaz” as well and we all know that’s a term that shouldn’t be used by anyone.
One of my absolute favorite episodes. I love the Spike flashbacks and his story, showing he actually might know more about Buffy's nature than she does herself. His rising affection for her, her rejecting him, his anger and then ending by just sitting down next to her to comfort her. It's just so great.
This is in my top 3 favourite Buffy episodes.
Can't mention the other two... yet 😀
This show keeps getting better.
To be fair, that one character from Supernatural who died stupidly no longer had the protection from "*that higher being*" that they had been used to... they were suddenly just your average human in a dangerous situation for an average human to be in. I think this episode brings back the reality that even though Buffy's a Slayer, Slayers do die, and usually young and probably from silly mistakes they make in the moment. It kind of grounded her a bit.
He should have still had the protection they got from another being as a replacement a few episodes before that. There wasn't a time limit on it.
@@TheNoybusiness Nope, he said he would not interfere anymore
@@AnzuBrief The other being I'm talking about wasn't a he, it was a she. The one they got replacement protection from a few episodes before that, like I said. They never got protection from the one you're thinking of and he didn't become powerful enough that he could have done it in the first place until *one* episode before that. Alley doesn't want to spoil people who haven't seen SPN, so I'll put her name below a SPOILER warning.
SPOILER
Fortuna
@@TheNoybusiness Fortuna did give him some protection, but notice it wasn't mentioned ever again. I think Jack re-set all that, but I like Fortuna. I wish we had seen more of her. Also, I wish Dean had worn the leather jacket or was reunited with it in Heaven.
@@Nepthu That's the problem. It wasn't mentioned after the apocalypse was averted because the writers forgot about it in their rush to make **that** ending, with its maniacal need to close up everything and make a continuation impossible in a show where an open-ended ending would have been the most thematically appropriate thing, happen. I don't think they remembered Fortuna's gift **to** have Jack take it away (which would have been mean and uncalled for of him, anyway).
Top tier episode.
BTVS had great moments from the very beginning, but I think the series had several points where it reached another level and remained consistently even better than it had been before, and I always viewed this episode as one of those points.
You said it perfectly: It's the episode you didn't know you needed.
That's what great writing does. It fills a void we didn't know we had, enriching our souls at every unexpected turn.
The "LORE OF THE FANGED FOUR" is everything. In this episode we get a major piece of the puzzle.
If you take pieces of their scenes and then put it together you'd get a shorter side show from the Slayer show.
We learn in this puzzle how Spike got his name, if you didn't remember his real name.....William.
We learn he came from upper class and was richer than Liam (Angel) growing up.
You see that it was Druscilla who actually sired William. That Angel and he never really got along great the whole time.
Angel already said in an early Buffy episode that the demon that takes over your body when your soul exits, gets your memories and personality traits because it's the foundation of who you were.
The demon uses what it needs of that knowledge and decides how to use it. It amplifies some of those traits and can make it more deviant to its liking.
Spike was a gentle sweet man before Dru. Don't forget that Dru is a special vampire with powers because her human side was already that way. When turned....she got a romantic demon.
On the Angel show, you saw who sired Darla. The Master was an old vampire with powers. The Fanged Four are of his bloodline and have unique qualities.
The last important sired he created was his blood avatar to feed so that he could escape from the underground.
Darla's human was a high priced prostitute who was bitter and angry at the world and couldn't care less if the world burned for discarding her like she wasn't a person. We see what her demon deviant did with her.
Liam was an early 20 something entitled man from an upper middle class family who wasted his life being a degenerate and free spirit.
His demon amplified those qualities and made him a really creative and perverse deviant. With Darla molding him into a very twisted student of her mindset.
He was a mastermind after that.
Dru was clairvoyant and possibly more, but Angel ended her human life before more skills could blossom. When she turned, her demon got to have her supernatural ability and even expanded on what other ones her body possessed. She can push visions, hypnotize, and be extremely strong like her sire.
(YOU'RE WELCOME, Stephanie Meyers).
With William being her sired, his qualities stayed with him. His romantic devotion stayed with his demon (YOU'RE WELCOME, TWILIGHTERS! and VAMPIRE DIARIES DEVOTEES) , but twisted it so that only Dru received those affections and passions but in a deviant "The Addam's family Morticia and Gomez" type of romantic way.
I have a theory (as did many others) that the powerful bloodline they share made them unique by how potent their siring works. One could say Darla and Angel picked young couples so in love that they'd keep that aspect of it when turned, or perhaps...they have a more mystical essence to their siring and causes such hypersensitivity in their sired subjects. Once Dru came along, her supernatural skills were like icing on a cake....which produced a unique Spike.
Yes. James is that damned good at making you get emotional when he plays it up. He's just brilliant.
Idc what anyone says about Riley, he was perfect for Buffy because all she talked about for some years was wanting a nice regular boyfriend to snuggle and love on. She repeated that in "I'll remember you" after she and Angel had sex. Well, Riley is what she wanted, and then....like the fans that hated on him, she questioned her choice in what type of love she wanted. She told Willow that maybe she does need all the drama and stuff in order to be happy and excited at love, when they were out patrolling one night, back in season 4.
Riley is not supernatural and/or not Angel. That's why he received fandom hate, but I'm a Riley cheerleader. He was good to Buffy. Even when things were going on with him, and him having insecurities about them, he didn't want to burden her more with his feelings on things while she was having her plate full of problems already, so he handled it alone. ...Not well, but then each character has done something outside their normal behavior while dealing with growing pains. Even Giles.
I saw it as a reverse in traditional gender roles. If the man is out doing important jobs, the woman is his support system, but then she gets taken for granted. She tries to hint that something isn't the same and he just isn't getting the message.
I still feel bad for how the fans treated Marc Blucas. He deserved better.
His online letter of apology to the fans felt heartbreaking because he was so sincere, and didn't need to apologize for not being who they wanted him to be. I was so sad for him.
As for Buffy/vampire ships go, Bangel v. Spuffy..... I was not so much into Bangel as some fans. I just enjoyed their time together as it was what it was, but then I was not a teenager or preteen with immature romanticism ideas that predate the (Twilight) generations either. The moon didn't hang on him because he was dark brooding and tortured.
The story arc was good, but definitely from the perspective of a 16 yr old girl, of which first love is epic and life.
TWILIGHTERS. AGAIN, YOU'RE WELCOME. Buffy crawled so that cringe of a teen angst series could walk, and the movies (except the last 2) messed it all up horribly. Lmao.
Bella was definitely no Buffy. Hell, I'd pick watching Dawn scenes over Bella scenes....and I hated Dawn. Wrong "actress" (and I use the term loosely) for the part of Bella.
At least Vampire Diaries got some of it right. .....SOME.....🤨
But that's a whole other problem show to peel away at.
Anywho... I was so into THE LORE OF THE FANGED FOUR, that I would invest time in writing the timeline events that showed their whole history, starting from Darla on. Of course, later someone made an actual time line on a site(s).
The ending where Spike (demon) got angry with vengeance is separated from the second where the chip let the echo of William come through when he saw her in pain. He was caring and gentle.
"Angel already said in an early Buffy episode that the demon that takes over your body when your soul exits, gets your memories and personality traits because it's the foundation of who you were."
I mean, he _said_ that, yeah, but ever since he said that it's just been a constant flow - both in and out of his line - of other vampires both telling and showing that that isn't necessarily the case, and that his description isn't necessarily authoritative rather than his own subjective interpretation. Being a vampire doesn't mean he knows how vampires work, any more than me being a human means that I know how my biochemistry works. Myself, I still take Angel's view as just that: his view. And one heavily fueled by denial in order to better help separate himself from Angelus. We see all over both Buffy and Angel that the character Angel is _heavily_ fueled by denial, so I just chalk it up to that.
Plus, like...there wouldn't be any way to actually _know_ if you've been replaced by a demon with your exact memories or not from your own perspective, any more than Phineas Gage was able to tell that his personality changed. If you have continuity of memory, then from your perspective you are the same person as the person in those memories. To me, it being his rationalization to provide the separation from the horrific deeds he did as a vampire that his psyche needs to stay sane, a rationalization that he just assumes as true because he doesn't realize it's a rationalization, makes more sense from the evidence shown in the show than it being true.
Especially since, like...if the person who committed those acts was a demon possessing Liam and Liam himself ceased to exist until the soul returned to the body, then Angel wouldn't actually have any moral responsibility for those acts just because his body was used to perform them. Angel simultaneously believes that he's responsible for what Angelus did and needs to atone, and that Angelus is the demon within him that he needs to hold back through his soul; these can't both be grounded in objective truth at the same time, and to me the most natural solution is that _neither_ is.
"As for Buffy/vampire ships go, Bangel v. Spuffy"
ahem
history or no, in Alley's audience, we call that ship "Bike" >:C
(j/k)
Okay, I know it's just for a joke, but Xander should absolutely have some familiarity with Riley's hand signals from his soldier memories.
As much as I agree that Xander should’ve been more heavily changed by those soldier memories, it was mentioned in season 4 that pretty much all of the memories faded. He had them basically through season 3 but that’s about it. Kind of a shame.
When Spike is relaying his experience killing Slayers to Buffy, he tells her there will be a moment where she *wants* to die, and he will be there in that moment. Then later on Buffy's porch, he has the gun and Buffy looks up at him with pleading eyes. Right there, that is the moment she *wants* to die, and Spike is there, but instead of killing her, he offers her comfort, in what is probably one of the most tender moments of the show.
Besides The Gift...this is my favorite episode of the whole series. I adore it so so much. The crossover episode with Angel, Spike being sired, killing the two slayers, the beginnings of his...entanglement with Buffy, the actual productive lessons he teaches her and the ending when he goes to kill her but just cant because he can see the genuine agony shes in...
Fml this was the one that made me a fan of this show for life. 😍😍😍😍😍
The fact that you're still calling them Bike and not Spuffy 😭
FFL just might be my favorite of the series. The amazing editing, all the callbacks, the wonderful dialogue, the great lore and history that was explored. Everything just fell into place so well. And it just hits you like a train of emotion. Knocks you dead. Happy to see you enjoyed it just as much. It's a classic.
I adore this episode. The flashbacks. The cinematography. The character-relationship developments. Spike. The slayer conversation. JUST. SO. GODDAMN. GOOD. 😤😤😤
It's interesting to rewatch the Angelus episodes after this one, because you start noticing that Angelus is a coward. He stalks, tricks, hunts and attacks from behind, but whenever he finds himself face to face against someone who might actually have a shot at beating him, he retreats ASAP.
Top tier episode of Buffy. I was blown away during the subway scene the first time. It still blows me away honestly
The lore of the Buffyverse keeps saying there’s a difference between the human and the demon. And that may be so - but a vampire is in the middle. It is neither fully man and neither fully monster. I’m sure it’s very possible for a vampire to be good. And if it isn’t - well,… Spike was just a special vampire then.
Maybe the demon that set up shop in William was a good demon and only convinced itself that it was evil because demons usually are very evil.
Spike certainly loved to play evil. To perform it. Maybe it’s that his demon actually wasn’t. Maybe Spike was more on the side of good and didn’t know it? Because how could he if all he has ever really known of demons is evil? He just thought he was.
I mean look at Tara in the ‘Family’ episode. She was told and taught from birth that she was a demon or would become one after she turned 20, so she automatically thought demon = evil. She’d turn evil. Everyone said it was so, so how could she think otherwise? Turning into a demon must mean turning evil. And what if she was actually a demon? What if the writers bit the bullet and made it true?
Would Tara have turned evil or would she just be the way she already was but just no longer a human?
Look at Anya - a human now but once was a demon. Was she evil? Nah. Mainly just selfish. She could have easily turned good as a human or not. I think it really does just depend on the company you keep. What support you have or don’t have. And whether you have a choice to do one from the other.
Spike was never evil. He just believed he was.
I don't think it's about being evil or not being evil. It's just they don't have the same taboos about killing people, or causing them pain, and don't have a moral check. But also the demon is there, wanting demony things
Great reaction, Alley! I absolutely agree this is one of the best episodes of the entire series. I can say this - Spike, like all the characters in Buffy, is on a journey. This is an important stop along the way. I am looking forward to your reactions to where the character of Spike goes from here.
Which is the more incredibly moving shared silence? In any other episode I would say the few seconds after Giles says "painful" 3:53 (the little exchange of looks between Buffy and Giles is so touching). But how can it be anything else but the closing moments? Buffy and Spike sitting quietly side by side is, to me, the iconic image of them.
Spoilers for season 6, Alley's past there but others may not be
.
.
.
.
'I can be alone with you here' 👀
Okokok I've been waiting 4 seasons for this! "They call him William the Bloody because of his bloody awful poetry" right? RIGHT?!
OKAY OKAY now... refer to the very first episode Spike was in. Season Two, School Hard.
Spike is invading the school, Buffy is in the ceiling, and Spike treats us to the first taste of his original brand of poetry:
"Fee fi fo fum,
I smell the blood of a nice ripe girl."
IT DIDN'T EVEN RHYME! I just-- 😂😂😂
You know Spike went back the next night and slaughtered all the people at that party who made fun of his poetry, and that one guy definitely got a railroad spike through his head.
I love your excitement when Dru appears. Darla almost feels like out of place because you've only had Season 2 Buffy. Spike and Dru never mentioned her. One of the things this episode does is really expand the world and history. For a long while it's really very insular and just about Sunnydale, which obviously makes sense but between this and Angel (the show), it expands on everything
The fact that it's debatable about whether or not this or several other episodes this season is the best one makes this season stand out even more. Nothing else on TV was this good at the time, and shows like Lost kept trying to mimic the formula of this episode but never quite capturing the impact.
Favorite Spike episode. Top 5 over all easily.
This episode is absurdly amazing. Im just sitting here nodding at all the "I love it".
Now that you mention it, Spike would have been more able to heal and move on if he had a soul, since such capacity is part of growing and changing. Anything happening just before he was turned should be imprinted on him indefinetly and the words would cut no less then if it happened a few days ago.
Spike's turning is so sad. Like Drusilla, but in a very different way, he was so innocent
So were Liam, Harmony, Penn and basically every vampire that we see turned.
@@MrSupertallblackman Of course, in the sense no one deserves it. But I mean they have a childlike air about them.
@@jaycievictory8461 That just seems to be what its like when you're first brought back. Liam was childlike with Darla, Penn was with Angelus and Harmony...well Harmony is always Harmony.
@@MrSupertallblackman I mean Spike and Drusilla were childlike as humans. And childlike when they died
@@jaycievictory8461 I can't speak for Penn but so were Liam and Harmony.
I love the Billy Idol V Slayer fight on the subway.
Poor Spike has always confused sex with violence, event back to his first introduction in season 2.
Definitely in my top 5 episodes of the entire show, but then I do love a Spike episode!
Great reaction/review as always Alley
I think this episode is a fan favourite because the fans see a lot of backstory that was hinted at but wasn't confirmed. Also, was the first confirmation no matter what the circumstances Angelus/Angel and Spike much like Faith and Buffy will never like each other ever, lol.
Hands down one of the best episodes :) And right there with you for all the feels. Spike. Giles and Buffy. Joyce. Ending with Spike comforting a crying Buffy... So amazing. And that's ignoring everything like the editing which is just flawless.
Yes!! This episode is a Masterpiece. Glad you love it as much as most of us fans. 🥰
The tie in to Angel shows Dru’s motivation was simply to go out and make “a playmate” yet it turns out Spike saves the world one day..
"He looks like he could've been in the Matrix"
Me: He looks like he just saw Billy Idol & based his entire look on him 😂
I think this was the first episode when Buffy realizes the reality of what it actually means to be a Slayer, like she always knew she was never going to be average, however this episode was the moment she realizes part of her wants to die, because that is the only way she stops being a Slayer. Ironically Faith, accepted this realty because her life was lousy before she became a Slayer.
Even my nickname, it's a reference to Joss Wedon's TV series Firefly. I hope he will still have a chance to create and give the world the same wonderful things as Buffy, Angel and Firefly.
32:30 A vampire is born evil but I don't think they have to remain evil. They are capable of learning new things and can as such become less evil and more human over time. It's just that without the good side of the person that used to inhabit that body most vampires have no drive to learn or change.
I like this. I also think that the demon part of the vampire is kind of like an anti-soul, driving them to kill and feed, but not all demons are the same.
I agree with the idea of an anti-soul. It's also about survival. Humans do unspeakable things to their food too. But there's more specific things the demon wants, like the thrill of the kill, mixed with whatever the human wanted, so in order to eat and have fun the conscience sort of has to take a back seat.
If we ever get another BTVS show I hope it's a prequel spinoff following Nikki: the slayer from the seventies.
This show has so many fascinating characters that I wish we knew more about!
This is one of the all time episodes.
This was such a good episode, I feel like this episode and the episodes going forward spike became my favorite character.
"If they're anything like, they find the whole subject too ... painful." So Giles is not the only Watcher to have a close, father-like relationship with his Slayer. Which may explain why the Council incorporated that element into their test. Not that they're right to do so, merely that there is a valid rationale.
This is such a classic. Might just be one of my favorite episodes. Getting some of Spike's backstory added a whole new dimension to him and I believe solidified him as my favorite character. His arc is interesting to say the least and also James Marsters plays the part so well.
Btw did you catch the line "I'd rather have a railroad spike through my head..." a hint of where 'Spike' got his name from.
I always figured he tracked that guy down, specifically, to make the metaphor literal.
@@ianburns1167 I kind of hope so. That remark was pretty harsh, I don't care how bad his poetry is.
This episode is one of my top 5 for rewatches, I love everything about it! The back story, the fanged 4 the two slayer fights, the cinematography and editing especially with the second slayer fight, the chemistry/connection between Spike and Buffy and then that heartwarming moment at the end where they just sit and breathe together! It's all just so perfect!!!! Also, what I wouldn't give for a fanged four prequel type thing! Anyway, Love your reaction!!
This episode was indeed “fucking amazing. Hits a ton of top 10 polls for the show.
This episode Retconned Spikes origin because in School Hard Spike says to Angel "You were my Sire, man!" But given what we know about Angel, Dru and Spike, it does actually make more sense that Dru Sired Spike, that she would be attracted to his poetic side, while Angel wouldn't see him as pure enough to draw his interest as a human, and if he had, then he would have tried to destroy William, like he destroyed Dru. So, we should change the word "Sire" to "mate" in that context.
In the novels, Spike killed another slayer....and it was kind of brutal. She got activated when she was just nine and died right after that because Spiked crucified her to a door...
This episode is so good, probably my favorite
This is one of the best episodes of Buffy! I love it so much
This was the episode that Spuffy (or Bike) was cemented for me. Also my teenage crush on Spike.
There's no watchers left to tell the tail, yet Buffy has only been a Slayer for 5 years. Surely the Watcher to her immediate predecessor hasn't died of old age yet.
Team Spike Forever!
One of my regret's is that I have yet to find an excuse to use the word "effulgent" in a sentence, out loud, in public.