Buffy the Vampire Slayer Talk || s5e08 "Shadow"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
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not me messing up my own watch order and skipping two angel episodes 😵💫 im so dumb…
i will post the next angel ep for the next upload… sorry for the delay! i know that one is a good one!
I was about to ask why Angel 2x07 wasn't after Buffy 5x07. Happy to enjoy the content, even if it is out of order.
@@alleybox And "Darla" ties in with "Fool for Love". I was looking forward to seeing the moment where you realized it had the same flashbacks.
Anyways, Sandy who was bitten by Vamp Willow in "Doppelgangland" meets her end here.
Oh no, that's a very unfortunate part of the order to mess up, watching Fool for Love and Darla back to back is just so cool. I know the Slayalive order has it right, and so did you on Patreon. We'll just be extra patient, no worries :)
"I keep forgetting Riley is still a main character" so does Buffy tbh
Yeah I think the writer's didn't know what to do with him 🤔
@@angelaholmes8888 nah, Riley has a clear arc in this season
to be fair he was never a main character, never had the material to be a main character and has no personality. His whole point was to be a tie in to the initiative which is non existent after the season it was introduced. They shouldnt have brought him back
The snake wasn’t scared off by the screaming. It was following orders: find the Key, and report back.
Yes. To an observer who doesn’t know about the key it might look like Dawn scared it off somehow. Big scary monster breaks in; Dawn shrieks; big monster turns tail and heads for the hills. They don’t know that Dawn is special nor the snake’s mission.
The viewer who knows about Dawn and the snake’s mission should probably realize what’s actually going on. But first time viewers might lose a detail here or there and get lost in the action and excitement of the moment. I think I’ve seen a number of reactors miss the point in one way or another.
I’m starting to think I watch way too many Buffy reactions. 🤔
This episode illustrates why the Key needed to be human and someone Buffy would fight for. If the monks had just made it a grain of sand in the desert, the snake would've found it and gone and told Glory where it was. If they'd made it an object for Buffy to keep or a random person, Buffy might not have pushed herself as hard to chase after the snake and win the fight. They needed her to care so much about protecting the Key that she would find hidden depths of strength within herself.
If they made it a grain of sand in Saudi Arabia no one would have found it. Shows like Buffy and Supernatural act like everything cool happens in the US. The rest of the world is mundane.
Riley's love language is Word of Affirmation (makes sense since he is a top military boy scout). His main outward showing of love language is Acts of Service. Buffy's love language is NOT that, it's Quality Time. Riley doesn't recognize this as love. So, when he is doing all these things like taking Dawn out, telling her he loves her, going to the hospital to see Buffy, he's trying to instigate a reaction of mutual love that he does recognize. He ends up with a vampire biting him because, to him, it feels the most like a reaction that his Act of Service is appreciated- but it is still wrong.
You don't have to have the same love language as another to be a good couple, but you do have to recognize your partner's love language. Interestingly, but not surprising, Angel's love language is also Quality Time (Spike's is Physical Touch and Dru's is Receiving Gifts)
Oh, I love this. (Especially as a Bangel girl 🤫)
I really like your analysis, which I find very accurate and allows us to better understand the character of Riley
I love your analysis. You explained clearly what I was trying to express unsuccessfully.... Riley feels hurt when Buffy breaks free from his embrace when Joyce's calling her, Angel would not. So let me guess: Willow's love language is 'Appreciate me for being a powerful witch?' (I can't add more because of spoilers....)
I was thinking what Buffy needs is a guy who will be home for her after she's had a rough day. Someone who wouldn't ask questions and would just be supportive, filling her needs. Either that, or a guy who's even darker than she is so they can understand each other. Riley doesn't want to be either, and/or isn't either. His attempt at trying to understand the darkness is to get bitten by a vampire, but ultimately his instinct is to recoil from anything like that. He's more black and white, less depth. Remember his instinct was to judge Willow as "that type of girl" when he found out she had dated a werewolf. That's black and white. Whereas Buffy's instinct is: you love who you love. That goes deeper. But that's OK, it's just that one has to accept certain things about oneself. As much as his actions seem selfish, really he's just preparing himself for what he already knows is inevitable, and that is that he and Buffy are ending because ultimately they can't relate to each other.
This is really really good, and I agree completely. I would just add that Riley letting the vampire feed off of him was negative attention seeking. He was feeling like Buffy wasn't paying attention to him, so he was acting out to get attention, but in the end scene, we see that Buffy didn't even notice that he had been bitten. Another aspect of Riley's negative attention seeking is that Buffy really needed him, but because he was soo busy trying to earn her attention, he wasn't there for her when she needed him.
Alley: "Dru is the only other woman Spike has been with the past whatever-hundred years."
Harmony: "Am I a joke to you?"
oop-
No Harmony you’re a joke to every one.
@@ItsMeBarnaby I'm having trouble breathing.
Yes. The answer is *yes*.
Yes. Which is honestly kind of a problem actually - they treat her trying to find herself and her personal power as pathetic, make her a joke, and why? It's similar to Lindsey in Angel - why is Faith's redemption serious and Lindsey's is just mockery?
"Are you stupid or something?!"
"Allow me to answer that with a firing"
"Early television"... aired in 2000... crying in millennial tysm
Joyce calls for Buffy and she goes to her mom leaving Riley alone in the corridor and the door to the room closes, further shutting Riley out of Buffy's life. This is how Riley sees things.
This was a Riley centric episode, because he is living under Buffy''s shadow and slowly realizing that they are not compatible. You can see a lot of Riley's perspective in this episode, it the tone, and whenever riley is on screen, the colors, sounds and visuals give a feeling of realization which Riley was going through. Didnt like the episode during first watch, but later-on i am understanding Riley's POV. Most hate him because they view it from Buffy's POV, they see how Buffy is going through and how Rileys behavior inappropriate in that sense. Now see it through Riley's POV. Buffy has been distracted and distancing herself from Riley, too many secrets she is not letting him on(not that she should but there is a conflict here, Riley needs to know and Buffy cant tell) but that goes only till Dawns extent, beyond that walking out on riley at the middle of the night and being the last person to hear about Joyce, during all these things, Riley is finding all the things from others instead of her, despite him being the closest to her.
Both are right and no-one is wrong but because of Buffy's focused POV many miss what riley has been going through. Remember,, he told Xander that Buffy doesnt love him before this episode, that means he is going through some shit and no-one caught onto it. till now.
I think Riley goes to Sandy as he's constantly told throughout the ep, that he is 'whitebread', I.E. that he doesn't have the bad boy thing he thinks Buffy might need from her relationships. He doesn't have the danger, the darkness. He wants to know what that's like. He wants to play on the shady side of the street, and experience for himself the darkness and danger Buffy might just be drawn to.
i love glory as a villain shes just so glamorous how can you not love her
She's my favourite of all the"Buffy"Big Bads,the only one I *truly* enjoy watching.😊💗✨
@@Nicamon i also enjoyed the master & season 7(not trying to spoil) but glory is also my favorite!
@@noahcarrier7064 Sorry,but to answer to this,I MUST spoil!;-P
SPOILER
S7 Villain is *the worst Villain I've EVER seen!* It doest literally *NOTHING BUT TALKING!* It goes around and TALKS trying to get people mad or depressed.CALEB is the one doing the real work,kicking some major asses. ...And he's super-annoying so I don't LIKE him the way I like Glory.
D'you remember when in S2 Buffy makes fun of the First saying:"ALRIGHT,I GET IT,YOU'RE EVIL!🙄"...well,I DIDN'T! I completely *forgot* the First already appeared in S2..such a big impact it left on me!;-P But now that I do,I wonder...why the HELL can't she do the same in S7?!?!
She's funny because of the dissonance between her threat level and her appearance/behavior.
@@TheNoybusiness True.💗
I believe Riley interpreted Dawn's comments as Buffy not having any passion for Riley. That he is just sort of filler until she finds someone who makes her feel passion again.
Which is a seriously insecure interpretation of "She doesn't get worked up over you like she did over Angel". Worked up is not a good thing in this context, Riley!
@@TheNoybusiness It means "she doesn't care that much" IMO. However, season 5's writing between Riley and Buffy felt awkward and strange. The two characters clearly had passion in season 4. Heck, Buffy had more sex with Riley than she ever did with Angel. There was a whole episode about it. Now in Season 5, the expect us to forget what we've seen previously like all that sexual passion was a dream.
@@Nepthu Because they genuinely didn't know what to do with Riley after the Initiative and had the wild hair to shove Spuffy.
@@Nepthu Passion is not only sex.
And if you look closer at season 4, Riley and Buffy didn't have that many happy moments, there was always conflict, drama.
Their relationship barely started when they were fighting because she's a lone/self-sufficient slayer and that's a burden, while he thinks it's cool to kill demons with his team but is unable to make decisions alone (4.11-12).
Then Riley sees the demons as the bad guys and the humans as the good guys. He doesn't understand and disapproves of the Willow Oz/werewolf relationship, and indirectly that of Buffy/Angel (4.19). Then there is the ridiculous conflict between Riley and Angel (4.20).
Buffy and Riley disagree about the methods used to neutralize vampires and demons (from 4.13).
Buffy has never supported him when he leaves the only thing he knows: the army, the Initiative and realizes that it has all been lies and manipulation, even to the point of drugging his body without his knowledge + a chip (from 4.14 to 4.21, and in 4.22 she prefers to spend the evening with the Scooby than to be there for him when he goes to denounce the Initiative's actions).
Then in season 5 she completely abandons him and does not try to understand that all that he lived can have caused an unhappiness and an important loss of reference marks in his life
Not to mention the Riley/Faith affair that created a big break and loss of trust (4.16-17).
At no point in their relationship do they agree on anything, except sex (4.13 and 4.18), but that's not enough for a real relationship.
I'm not especially pro-Riley, but over time I've tried to understand their relationship from Riley's point of view and it's clear that Buffy just wants a doggie who will lift his paw when she wants to, but not have to deal with him on a daily basis (lame metaphor but you get the idea). And that's not how a relationship works either.
@@Nepthu they had sexual passion. They were hot during the honeymoon period as most people are and then after that went away, all Buffy had for Riley was sexual passion and genuine care as a friend.
Buffy not telling Riley has nothing to do with Riley and everything to do with Buffy's coping mechanism/tendency to isolate herself in response to trauma because Buffy didnt tell ANYONE about her mother, not even the Scoobies..Spike only knows cause he was in right place at the right time
Alley: “Buffy choking out a Snake”
Me: “Not for the first time 😜”
R.I.P. Sandy. She didn't deserve this, sired by vampire Willow who isn't even part of this reality.
Riley took Spike's words to heart, he's trying to be the man Buffy wants. She's said in the past she likes some monster in her man. She's not letting him into her heart, she may love him but she isn't IN LOVE with him. She makes plans with him then forgets about them, he tells her how much he loves her but she doesn't reciprocate. In 5x05 they agreed to lean on each other but she's not doing that.
One thing Spikes good at is calling ppl out! 😂lol like that one time he told Buffy that her and Angel would never be friends..
What is RILEY doing?
WHAT is Riley doing?
What IS Riley doing?
What is Riley DOING?
These are all good questions
Four very good questions!
"This is Riley Finn. He is about to destroy his relationship with Buffy the Vampire Slayer. This fate could have been avoided if he had a sassy gay friend."
It’s around this point that as much as I love Season 5, the stuff with Joyce always makes it so hard to rewatch 😭
i gotta edit this and relive it again and i dont wanna 😭😭
A couple different people in this episode told Riley how much Buffy gets revved up by Angel. I think part of his motivation for visiting Sandy was to try and better understand how Buffy can have feelings for a vampire. I don't think he was really scratching his own itch.
Always liked how this show was able to have the same actors reprise their roles throughout the series, even for minor characters such as Sandy.
The snake didn't leave because Dawn screamed. He left because he found her and his orders were to find her and return to Glory to tell her where the key was.
And "early television"? Ouch, I think that made feel older than the first time someone called me "ma'am".
Riley is aimless. He's got too much spare time and nowhere to direct it. And everyone is feeding his insecurities.
True. He has too much spare time because he gave up his career to spend more time with Buffy. Look where it got him, and Buffy never cared about his military career in the first place, so she doesn't understand what he sacrificed.
that's exactly what I've been saying. people forget that he left EVERYTHING that was his own when he left the initiative and when Walsh died. He no longer has his job at the college and he pretty much lost his only friends to them either dying or Graham, who stayed with the secret military. All he has is Buffy, all his focus is on Buffy- all while Buffy still has everyone and everything she had before. Riley is just in desperate need of a couple hobbies outside of the scoobies and to actually communicate his issues with Buffy.
I think it's also that being a protector was a big part of his identity. Not only is he no longer a juiced-up super soldier, but Buffy didn't even need that from him. He's starved for validation in a way that he wouldn't be if he were dating a regular woman.
People absolutely are quick to judge Riley as if he is an antagonist over a sudden.
Since day one of their relationship he has done nothing but be the best loving and supporting boyfriend and even confessed that Buffy was the most amazing woman he's ever met.
This episode is titled Shadow for more than one reason.
Think about the very last shot. Riley was reaching out to Buffy to connect with her, but then she never connected with his hand and just walked away instead of including him...and just left him in shadow.
Now instead of Riley being a douche bag boyfriend and just drop emotions about how he feels a disconnection to her and maybe how he feels he's losing her. He sucks it up and tries to just be supportive to her as much as he can, just like the gang. He's her boyfriend. He should be included too. Anya and Tara aren't even close with Buffy and yet they gets included more than he does.
Instead of dropping his issues onto her plate, he badly handles it himself....(like every other character has done once or twice in the show) by giving his blood to the vampire. Yet he gets a shit tone of toxic hate from fans. Fans who are eager to man bash or Bangel fans who thinks Riley isn't bad boy enough.
It's like people forgot what Buffy said about wanting a normal boyfriend to come home to, back when she was with Angel....especially after they had sex on the Angel episode I WILL REMEMBER YOU. But she seems too dismissive, imo.
To me, he is the reverse treatment of traditional gender roles, since the beginning of time.
Example: how many shows or movies have we seen where the woman is the homestead wife and the husband works.
She does all the little things to make and keep him happy, but over time he takes her for granted, and no matter what she does she can't seem to get him to really see or look at her like he used to.
She stays quiet and says nothing because she's more concerned about his importance and being the situation solver and bread winner....etc. she feels like she's losing herself, and maybe seeks comfort or adventure to feel alive, or desired, or just needed.
This is Riley in that reverse scenerio.
Everyone told him, in so many ways, that he wasn't enough for Buffy. He wasn't a supernatural mystical entity to keep her interest.
Dawn tells him that Buffy had the big "Can't think, eat or sleep without you" type of love and heartache over Angel, but she's not as passionate about Riley like that. In his mind, he loves her more than his life. But the sinking feeling and sadness he mist feel when he gets side swiped with blow after blow that maybe she doesn't feel the same is very heartbreaking.
As an adult, and I don't mean I just got out of my teen numbers adult, but someone that has actually lived awhile to see bigger pictures.....
I get where Riley's coming from. He, like a situation in reverse, is just looking for some sign of validation that he is still important to the woman he loves.
I will always defend Riley against bashers who simply hate on him for childish, small minded or male bashing reasons.
People give Xander a pass a thousand times when he screws up or does some machismo jealous bs, only to have him do something else immature later on again, when you think he starts to show some character growth.
And Marc Blucas was verbally attacked and hated on. I felt so bad for him because he didn't deserve that. Same with what they did to Wyatt Russell for playing John Walker in Falcon and the Winter Soldier series.
I felt so sad that he felt the need to write an apology to the fans that he couldn't be what they wanted him to be, but that he was very appreciative to be a part of the show. It broke my heart, because he was so sweet about it. I commend SMG saying that to this day she is good friends with him.
How funny how she played Daphne to her husband's version of Fred with an Ascot.
And Marc played Fred in Jay and Silent Bob strikes back, with Eliza Dushku and the girl that played Hawkeye's wife from his show and Age of Ultron....
Shout out to the Whedonverse alumni, Jeremy Renner aka one of Angelus' sired pupils.
I'm with you! Riley doesn't deserve the hate he gets, and I believe that many fans are too quick to judge male characters who they deem as insecure. Everybody has faults, and fans are quicker to forgive Angel for being a mass murderer rather than Riley for feeling emotional pain. Riley loved Buffy and sacrificed his military career, rank, friends and prestige for her. He made Buffy his world, and she didn't reciprocate. Anyone would be hurt.
Also, great point about how fans forgive Xander for doing much worse things when he has been far more selfish. Xander seemed to hate every other male character in the show, so his friendship with Riley felt almost out of character.
@@Nepthu Xander only hated guys that Buffy was interested in.
@@Xhalph That's uncharitable, by season 3 Xander is completley over Buffy romantically and only is a bestie to her. He dislikes Spike because Spike was a big bad, he attempted to murder Buffy and the scoobies numerous times, and hated Angel because Angel broke Buffy's heart and murdered Jenny Calendar which way too many fans gloss over. He didn't hate Riley because he wasn't so problematic.
Xander and Riley aren't that different. They share a lot of the same attitudes, and like just hanging out. Seems to make sense.
I will never understand hating on actors for their roles. It's not REAL.
Riley had some major problems. What character on this show didn't?
He needed to get a job, a hobby, something that didn't involve Buffy. Be his own man. He needed to sit by her in silent support if she couldn't talk about her problems, or just do fun things to distract her.
Mainly, though, it was Buffy's issue to begin with. She treated him like a defenseless, incapable child when it came to slaying. And that bled into other parts of their relationship, too. She didn't treat Riley like a man.
As soon as he realized that, Riley should have left. No one is worth feeling like crap about yourself. He should have left way before episode.
"Early television"... lol and ouch. Cuts deep. 🤣🤣
Also, Tara still calls him "Mr Giles". She still doesn't feel like a full group member :(
I'm glad you love Glory. She is possibly my fav main villain of Buffy. I have to agree with you, there's something about the little t-rex arms on the snake made it difficult to take it seriously. 😅 Riley really needs a hobby.
"I don't know what kind of action you're looking for. Do you?" Xander with the insight.
Buffy knows how to get it in the feels. Again and again.
Alley: "(regarding Riley) no you're not paying attention to me, and not giving me credit..."
Nailed it. Riley was craving attention from Buffy, first he tried doing it by going on patrol and killing vampires, and when that didn't work, he tried it by letting a vampire bite him, and in that scene, she walked away with out even noticing that he had been bitten. which is in contrast to when Dracula bit Buffy, and he noticed immediately.
The closeup shots were Practical Effects. Makeup and the costuming/monster department hit it out of the park.
I'm always conflicted with this stage of Riley. This is presumably still only months after he lost his job, his home, and seen a bunch of his friends and mentor die, and having been used to being the top of the class military guy is now hopelessly outmatched in that vocation by Buffy, her friends and her ex. I think he's still meant to be only like 21 or 22 here, and topped with some 90s toxic masculinity, it's hard to not feel a little bit sorry for him for feeling legitimately inadequate. And there's nothing he can really do about it either.
But getting bitten in a dodgy way to prove to himself he can be dark and edgy and grown up too is totally stupid. Or getting huffy cause Buffy won't validate him while she's going through some serious stuff. Riley needs to learn to brood in his own time, like Angel.
...at least he wasn't sniffing her sweaters.
Bike
Great insight, and thank you for realizing everything Riley gave up. Fans seem to ignore his career and prior prestige like those things didn't matter to him.
I think that Riley did what he did cause he wanted to see what the appeal was, why Buffy could have an attraction towards a Vampire, and then he felt bad cause he may have had a little bit of a rush and then thought "no, this is bad" so he dusted her.
My interpretation is that he wants to feel something, anything. Like a self harmer does.
He staked her because he wanted to know it was it was like to be bitten but he didn't want to die. She wasn't one of the vampire prostitutes he saw later. They deliberately don't go all the way. He knew she was going to kill or sire him if he let her.
Both of your interpretations are excellent!
Daniel Attias was a very prolific director of the time. He did a plethora of HBO shows including Six Feet Under, Sopranos, The Wire, True Blood, and so on.
The vampire girl was not introduced two episodes ago... It´s the same poor girl, that vampire Willow turned in 3x16, Sandy :)
Sandy (the vampire Riley let bite him) was originally human. She was bitten in Season 3 Episode 19 titled Doppelgangland, so it is entirely possible that vampire Willow was her sire (although they only showed her getting bitten that episode, not turned, so we are left to draw our own conclusions).
"What was Reilly doing?"
Suffering a mental break after experiencing nearly a years worth of life altering trauma with seemingly no support from anyone. Even the woman he's in love with is effectively just using him at this point. Considering part of that years worth of Trauma includes being a victim of SA, feeling emotionally shutout and used by Buffy is probably even more hurtful. Dudes drowning and no one even notices. It's not annoying. It's horrific.
Maybe if Riley choked the snake out he wouldn't be so crazed... Wait, I didn't mean... Still though...
Friendly reminder that Spike without a soul is capable of loving. Of course a lot of times it's gonna be weird: he doesn't have a soul. He's a vampire without any remorse unlike Angel, who got his soul back. I just feel like people always forget that.
The Riley stuff is gonna be a bit more explained later. Don't jump immediately on the hate train just because it's about Buffy's relationship. Keep and open mind when the time comes. And, I can say, no. Riley wasn't pretending to cheat on Buffy. It seems weird now, and it'll still be weird, but it does have a reason.
PS. I love your Bike.
Alley has already seen into early-mid Season 6 at this point. You can keep track of where she is on her Patreon page.
Based on text she added in a previous episode about Riley I'm pretty sure she didn't keep an open mind and is on the hate train.
The vampire Riley meets at the bar is SANDY from the episode with evil willow at the bronze . I thought evil willow just killed her , but I guess she was also turned.
At this point Buffy is holding Riley at arms length and Riley is noticing. He's trying to be there for her and to help.. and Buffy doesn't want his help. She doesn't get that worked up over Riley b/c she doesn't feel as strongly for him. He's not annoyed by it.. he's hurt as he realizes again that she doesn't love him. And then his scene w/ the vampire is him wanting to have the dark side that Spike said she needs.. but then he can't do it so he kills her. It's not him. And it's not that he wants credit. He wants her to need him and she doesn't.
Most probably I'm biased 'cause I've never really liked Riley. Let's say the fault here is 50 - 50 as usual in most relationships. Ok, Buffy may not really love him, but that's not the main problem in this moment imo. He wants her to be dependent on him which she will never be, not just for being the slayer. If we compare Biley with Bangel (as he seems to be doing it), I can see that even though she cried a lot more with Angel (and this might not be a totally positive thing...), Angel was not trying to change her nature or to be the center of attention, he could brood in the dark and then be there for her when needed.
@@simom931 this isnt about fault. This is simply Buffy keeping Riley at arms length and not being able to be vulnerable to him and lean on him when she's hurting. And Riley's realization of it then his reaction to it. Its not about Riley wanting buffy to be dependent. Its about her seeing him as someone to lean on when hurting instead of someone else to protect. There's more to say but lets not get into spoilers. You're misreading Riley's motives to a degree. That's notvto defend Riley's reaction to that realization or whether he's right to expect that but that is whats going on.
@@ryanbrooks8045 Idk I think Riley just doesn't understand her and is interpreting it this way because of how extremely insecure a person he is. When Buffy held Angel at arms length when going through her shit at the start of season 2 he gave her space and then was there for her when she let down her guard and to let it all out
@@horsepuncher95 Buffy and Angel weren't together at the start of season 2. Buffy and Riley have been together for a year or more at this point and she's still holding him and arm's length. It's not the same. I don't want to get into spoilers too much but the show flat out tells you this through Xander and Buffy realizes it herself. Riley and Spike are exactly right in how they're reading the situation. His reaction isn't healthy but his reading of the situation is spot on.
In this show there are a couple characters who you have to listen to when they talk b/c it uses them to speak the truth to the audience. Cordy was that character early on. Xander and Anya are that character around this time. They use another character (along w/ Xander) in the later parts of the show (season 7).
Cut to black and then cut back is showing a SHADOW on screen. Like the title of the episode, and the one found on the scan. Also its showing that there as shadow in Buffys mind at this point - she cant keep focus. I love this detail and didnt notice it until Alley brought that little cut front and center.
Take a shot every time Ally says "Please" lol 🙈😂😂😂❤️ XxXxX
All the ships involving Spike put his name first. Spuffy, Spillow, Spander, Spangel etc
Spillow?
@@catarinemarques231 Spike/Willow. There are ships out there for everyone's tastes.
Spory
Spara
Spoyce
Okay, never noticed you say Bike … I ducking 🦆 love it!!! 🤣
We're seeing how needy Riley has become. He gave up his life to be with Buffy so she's become his everything and that's not healthy. Or in the immortal words of Fleetwood Mac, "...I'd give you my world
How can I
When you won't take it from me?"
Interesting point. What we learn is that Riley will give up everything for Buffy (his career, his camaraderie, his team), but Buffy won't reciprocate. He's learning it's a one-sided relationship, and that's nothing more than finding fool's gold.
@@NepthuWell, nobody should be expected to reciprocate to that degree. But I get that he feels shut out as it's clear she doesn't depend on him, even if she loves him. It's debatable if that makes her a poor partner but it clearly undermines his sense of value.
I didn't plan on getting teary today, but I guess plans are meant to change.
Do we all forget that that vampire is Sandy who evil willow kills at the Bronze in Dopplegangland.....!!!!
I love this show. and I adore your reactions
“Hope you have a big trunk, cause I’m putting my *Bike* in it!”
I not on the Buffy/Spike ship. But, I'm 💯 on broad with calling the ship "Bike" 👍
Alley choking the snake
Me ...........
Yellow Pages ad's certainly dates this show.
Glorificus, Glory, The Beast, The Abomination or That Which Cannot Be Named.
Buffy didn't tell Riley because she just found out last night and Spike happened to be there.
What do you mean you don't understand his reaction? He doesn't feel like his girlfriend who I'd like to remind everyone gave up EVERYTHING that matter in his life for doesn't care about him as much as she does her ex.
Is his timing poor? Yes, absolutely. Is his reaction unreasonable? No, it's not. Should he be going to get bit by vampires? No, but this situation has a little more nuance then Riley bad.
Exactly
The show was written about, and for (but not by) adolescents, who typically have just that all-or-nothing reaction to moral issues. So for the junior audience it was all clear cut. Now, when they're older and watching again on DVD, the nuances emerge.
She called that thing a Spawn of Sobek, Sobek was an Egyptian deity who was the Lord of Crocodiles. He was associated with the powers of nature and the Nile.
I have been watching this entire series of yours and I LOVE your reactions. Blew thru your reactions to seasons 1&2 in a NIGHT😹
I like the CGI snake, especially that shot with the car, better than the guy in a rubber suit.
The rubber snake makes me lol but the CGI was, for the time, pretty good.
They couldn't have characters interact with CGI on a TV show's budget back then so they had to go with the suit for the combat scenes.
We dnt know Buffy didnt try to call Riley, he wasnt home and cell phones werent ubiquitous
Loll I was so confused about why we were getting this already. But yess more buffy.
You have to remember the carousel scene happens after Spike convinced Riley that Buffy needs her man to be a bit dangerous. So Dawn telling him that Buffy doesn't stress about him means that he dosen't have that edge that she needs.
May I point out 5x01, in which Riley went crazy because Dracula bit Buffy, Angel too in the past...
And here he is 🤷🏻♀️
The Master, too, and possibly Lothos.
I believe, with Riley, he just really needs his own hobbies or hang out with his own friend ( assuming Graham is still around- unless him still being in the secret military is why he can't hang out ). When he left the Initiative, he pretty much left everything that was his. He doesn't even have his job at the college anymore since Professor Walsh is gone. He has nothing, but Buffy. All his focus is on Buffy. While at the same time, Buffy still has everything she's had before- her mom, her sister ( since he still thinks Dawn is her sister ), her friends, Giles/dad figure, and her slayer duties. The only difference with Buffy atm is her mother being sick and the new big bad that's stronger than her- that he knows of. Her attention is still pretty much the same as it has been, minus her mother's current problem. One thing that would have fixed RIley feeling this way is for him to get a hobbie or two, outside of the relationship/scoobies. Its not healthy to only focus your attention on one person. you become way too clingy and obsessive with what they're doing, you forget about yourself and it could lead to the other person pushing you away- which will only make you more nervous and clingy. that's his problem.
( Obviously not saying Buffy is completely innocent in this. Normally, if you love someone/your significant other, you'd wanna lean on them and share your problems and life situations with them. she may be pushing him away due to his excessive sudden clinginess, BUT she's not making any effort to letting him into her life- keeping him at sort of an arm's length- which could also be from the trauma of what she's been through with other partners...but actions do speak louder than words. it might be all in his head but so far, he has yet to even talk it out with Buffy. )
Riley is grieving because the woman he is madly in love with him loves him doesn't need him.
Aw man! Uploaded while I was asleep. So late to the table 🙃
My Mom has being replaying the track "Love Montage" from this episode on loop recently. She loves the piano.
For me Reily in his warped way was trying to get into the darker side of Buffy (remember she did let Dracula bite her) it's a knee jerk reaction to what Spike said. I'm intrigued by how you defend Spike but vilify Reily. He's always been the bland nice guy next door (I'm really not a massive fan of him) who definitely has a issues regarding being a regular Joe unlike Buffy, Angel, Spike etc but he's always Mr reliable so of course he'd take Dawn to the fairground. The Spike thing is just gross and I'm kinda surprised at how on board with it the fandom are with it. I was never a fan.
For Riley, when it comes to the last scene it's more like he's realised that he can't fight with her anymore and when he tries to do the thing that he can do, being emotional support, Buffy gets called back and he's alone again. Obviously it's for a good reason but when you're desperate to feel wanted, needed or even useful and you get a chance which is then scuppered then it isolates you.
When it comes to the vamp, I think it's a test of himself. I don't think he was ever going to get it on with this vamp, there was no chance she wasn't getting dusted. But as we'll find out, it's a test to see if he feels anything. Like someone who indulges in self harming acts, it's a test to see if he can feel even a glimmer of something he thinks he needs.
I love your thoughtful post. Often, when we're at our most desperate, we're easiest to go down in flames.
10:52 The screams were irrelevant, the snake was sent to find the key and then return and report to Glory. It found the key and so headed back, it was not told to hurt anyone unless they interfered with it doing its task.
I think Riley is totally lost without orders from the Initiative, he doesn't know what he should do or what he is doing,
30:37 I think he knew she was a vampire all along, he wasn't going to cheat on Buffy.
17:04 Riley knew she was a vampire. He says he knows what she is when he first meets her. He went to her because she's a vampire. (I know you're on s6 Alley.) Because he needed someone female to "need" him in a semi-sexual emotional way, but if we're being honest, also someone female that he would have the power over because he has such deep rooted inadequacy and insecurity issues he thinks in those terms, and he feels like he has no power in the relationship with Buffy as well as knowing she could take him in a fight.
Glory is my favorite villian of the whole series
What is Riley doing? Feeling inadequate.
Magic always comes with consequences. Making Dawn was powerful magic.
Crazy how much the show can make you care about even the supporting cast. Poor Joice. Riley on the other hand, definitely is a divisive character in the Buffy fandom.
There was bound to be a mistake in the viewing order at some point.
Pobody's Nerfect. 😆
Technically, it's just a mistake in the posting order. She did watch "Darla" and "The Shroud of Rahmon" before "Shadow".
@@TheNoybusiness Yeah, kinda figured that. I wouldn't really bother all of us, being we're rewatching the series with Alley. And plot wise it doesn't jump ahead of anything.
Not the case in Scotland over 20 years ago. Different channels purchased viewing rights on each show, had to see them out of sync. 😁
@@TheOriginalJammyOne Oh, that sounds frustrating. I was aware of the shows when they were airing, but only really watched them on DVD a few years later. My mother and I bought the Season 1 Buffy DVD in a supermarket and then we simply had to get all the other seasons and Angel.
6:02 I hate for Americans that are the literal same moment of being told something like a loved one has a 2 in 3 chance of dying you're immediately asked to pay the bill 🙈
"What the fuck is Riley doing?" is peak understanding the Riley character
I mean, she's obviously not the love of his unlife, but Spike did have his little fling with Harmony after Dru.
I can’t believe how few people get that Riley isn’t being “selfish”, or petty… he wants desperately for Buffy to let him in, and she just doesn’t. He desperately wants some indication that she needs him for something more than babysitting Dawn… and she never gives him that. She will not allow him to shoulder any part of her burden… and that makes him feel useless in the relationship.
It’s so obviously unfair to him. Yeah, we all get that Buffy is distracted by big things going on in her life but that’s exactly why he, as the boyfriend, should expect that she’ll lean on him for comfort. She doesn’t! Instead it’s Spike. Now how is Riley supposed to feel? He’s far from perfect but c’mon… Buffy is clearly terrible at relationships herself. We’ve known that for a while.
GOD BLESS YOU. FINALLY, someone who gets it.
If the roles were reversed, they would shred Riley more than what they do now, for treated Buffy so dismissively until he needs her to make him feel better on something.
Eh, tbf with the spike thing, that only happened because he happened to show up as she was outside crying.
Put yourself in Riley's shoes.
Your partner is distant. They show affection, but it's still fairly shallow (has Buffy said "I love you"?) You constantly hear about his ex and how deep he fell for her (add in Dawn's little speech for spice)
You've given up huge parts of your life for them, they've changed you and took you away from the friends you knew, your ENTIRE support network is gone, but that's okay, bc they've been there for you.
And now they're in a crisis and they push you away. They can deal with it, you're not needed.
If you're *convinced* you wouldn't be hurt and feel vulnerable... I think that's some self delusion.
People are CONSTANTLY insecure in relationships. Partners have to work to maintain trust, because in the end every man is an island, the only thought you can ever know are those they choose to share, and how much of THAT can you trust?
I think describing Riley as selfish for wanting his gf to let him help, or to appreciate him for who he is and what he does... I just can't even come close to agreeing :P
Riley has valid reasons to feel the way he does. Buffy is used to putting on the front of invulnerability, but that shouldn't extend to her boyfriend. Unfortunately, he chooses to get blood-sucked behind her back instead of making her have an honest conversation with him about it, until it's too late (because of a deadline he imposed). They both make mistakes in the relationship.
@@TheNoybusiness
Yup.
But it's pretty much certain that most viewers have a Buffy bias :P
Not only is she a fantastic protagonist with a great character arc... SMG is also a HELLUV an actress.
But even seeing these eps as a teen, I always liked Riley. He's a good guy, supportive, brave and expressive.
Any girl would be lucky to have a guy like that, but Buffy can't see it until it's too late. Riley screws up big time, but his exit always made me sad (even if it is *amazingly* satisfying storytelling)
@@TheNoybusiness I think the reason why he didn't say anything was because of the timing. He didn't want to be that douche bag boyfriend who lays his issues on her to burden during her crisis, so he keeps it inside and find a different outlet to deal... No different than any of the others as they went through growing pains of how to deal with their feelings they never felt before.
Flip the script of the traditional sexes... a homestead wife that now gets taken for granted by her breadwinner husband. She's tried everything she could think of to reconnect with him so that she has some validation that she is still important in his life, but is defeated every time.
In his company of friends and family in his world, she is treated like a guest instead of be included and involved in his world. She shares her husband's bed and intimate moments with him, but becomes an afterthought after a while, meanwhile he's on the phone with everybody else when in a crisis, but the one he's in a relationship with.
If you thought people hated on him and fabricated him to be the worst boyfriend choice before, what do you think kind of hellfire would rain down on him if he just flat out got in Buffy's face and demanded some attention because he was feeling unnoticed or under appreciated and alone in the relationship? That's like throwing a bucket of chum into Shark infested feeding waters.
No mercy would be given. Marc got so much hate personally as well as the character. I think his character was amazing to her as well as Marc was in the role.
Lots of stuff here I agree with.
@@TheNoybusiness Ya, but he didn't have too much choice with that deadline, he may have not had another chance for years? The Ultimatum was basically, if you think we can work things out, let's try iirc. He wasn't even demanding they absolutely must work things out, just she be willing to try. Maybe the speech is worse than I remember though, I haven't seen anything other then reactions to it for awhile.
I just had a thought I don’t think Buffy ever tells Rylie about dawn and the key I don’t think Faith or Angel know the truth either
I have this feeling Angel does know but can't pin down why I feel that 🤔
@@jaycievictory8461 Not automatically, but we can assume they were told at some point after this season.
I think you are right about everyone finding out eventually
Did you just call 2000 "early television???"
in the buffyverse, a turtleneck is generally a cry for help. when buffy wore one after letting dracula bite her, everyone pounced. but riley? no one cares enough.
all partners Buffy have are just place holders for Angel. Buffy is Angel soulmate and vice versa, but that does not mean Buffy cant be comfortable with someone else aka settle with someone inferior, but safe
Because Riley is insecure about his place in the world and his role ever since he lost his powers and the initiative, I feel like he became too reliant on Buffy to satisfy his needs when she had so many things going on that demanded her attention. He thinks she doesn't love him only because she has to look after everyone else.
Whatever may or may not be true about Buffy and Riley's relationship, you don't make the moment Buffy's mother is lying in a hospital bed recovering from brain surgery the moment that defines your feelings. Sometimes you have to put your own Big Feelings, however Big and Feely they are and however justified they may be, aside because your partner just needs unconditional support in that moment.
Spike did it at the end of Fool for Love- he was going to KILL Buffy and he puts aside that plan entirely when he sees how much she needs support. What does it say about Riley that he doesn't seem able to do the same?
Apropos of nothing...the snake guy and his arm posture with the cute bunny paws. I once played a turtle in children's theater, a play called Ofoti, and I can tell ya there's not a thing you can do with your arms when your character isn't supposed to have any. I ended up doing the bunny paws, and the director liked it and told me to stick with it. We had very little budget, my costume was all surplus crap in green and khaki. For a shell I had an Army helmet...so when I was supposed to retreat into my shell, I pulled up the neck of my turtleneck over the helmet and just stood there like a dolt. Be glad buffy had a budget!
I love you’re vidéo on buffy
I remember finding this tough to watch. Joyce of course but then the whole Buffy and Riley thing really makes the "real life " stuff more downbeat than Glory and snake monsters.
Personally, I'm glad Bike never caught on. I've also been really surprised any ship name caught on with this show as most characters cannot combine names well. The way OUAT does ship names would have been the best way to go (Example of what I mean: Outlaw Queen for a queen and an outlaw - Spoiler to actually name them), but its long past catching on.
I always find it a little amusing when people criticize the snake suit. The show is full of on set costumes just as ridiculous.
I would love to know when and how Harmony found out about Spike's chip. I cannot imagine Spike telling her and she didn't know in the second episode of the season.
Spike and Harmony sitting in a crypt doing a lot more than k i s s i n g.
Riley went to Sandy partly to be the 'bad boy' and partly because she needed something from him while Buffy is supergirl who (to his eyes) needs nothing from him.
Yeah the snake is kinda ...Yeah lol but i mean with the year it was made we will always let this one pass
In a weird, messed up way, I feel like Riley let Sandy drink from him because he wanted to feel more connected to Buffy. He knows the only person she ever loved was Angel, and that he fed on her before, although obviously Riley wasn't around for that. But he was for 5x01 when Dracula used his thrall like powers on Buffy, and drank from her.
Either way, it's a wtf momemt on Riley's part😠
Hey, I thought Angel was next. Ok ok just kidding, I know you know.
Love that Xander calls Riley "Captain America". Its fitting alot of the time, but not with his acting latley. Also Xander is a big avengers fan, so it has tunes of jealosy. He is threatened by Riley being cooler and more super then him. Actually alot like Riley relates to Spike in the episode.
The show got budget . well yeah this was supposed to be the last season before a new network saved it.
Actually they always felt the network wanted a new season: Marti was announced as a new Executive Producer in Feb 2001 and they started S6 planning even before than usual (because Joss needed it to work in a very special episode).
Spuffy is much better than Bike, it just is.
Had a few too many drinks? Need to drive home. Visit our new Vampire Bar and get the alcohol sucked right out of you.
What is incredible about S5 is even though this is a supernatural/fantasy show, the harsh realities of real life are always there, and are manifested in this Season especially. Joyce's illness is in the background at this point, and Buffy has to try and contend with this as well as trying to protect Dawn from Glory. The build up from here on in to the arc of the Season is exceptional. Amazing writing.
I've never been this early omg
The demon god is from almost famous
I thought an Angel episode was next before this one
oh my god uhhhh….. u r right 😵💫 im so dumb
I thought so too but I'm down for more buffy! I still haven't watched angel-I should get on that-so I haven't watched Alley react to that series since it feels like it would be cheating for me.
I wouldn't begrudge Riley a little bit of insecurity, I mean she is The Slayer, but his insecurity has more lines in the show than he does. Needs to either learn to be cool with the situation, or pack it in. Also, that shit with the vampires in the bar is what it looks like when a coping mechanism fails in spectacular fashion. More Glory, less Riley.
What's making me laugh about the 'Bike' thing, is that means something completely different where i live and it's making me laugh. 😂😂😂
Edit: also agree about Riley in this episode. I am in the minority in i like his character. But this Season the way he's written feels like we missed an entire Season of development for his character. I get they needed him gone but this just felt so forced, they really should have just used his heart condition to write him out sooner instead of dragging this out. Because him being upset at Buffy over going to see her mum feels forced.