Such a great video. Somehow in 14 minutes I know more than I could find from the 4 videos, and 1/2 day of reading articles and forums. Too many people giving advice on something they really dont have a great understanding of. Great explanations of everything definitely earned a subscription.
Hey great explanation and demonstration of how boost controller work. I help some kids with their car and new people to racing and it's hard for them to wrap their heads around this. Your video will help!
Rad bro this actually explained to were I could better understand how all works as I been boosted a lil over a year and been use a 3 port for half that and now I want to regulate boost better/different and this just helped out tremendously brotha ty ... peace n love fam keep it rad stay safe and build on... l8z
So it was weird when I routed my buddies controller. With just compressor reference to bottom of the gate, we made 6psi. So 6 psi was gate pressure. JUST HOOKING UP THE SOLENOID IN TRADITIONAL 3 PORT MANNER gave us double the gate with the controller at 0% or off. I was so confused. By the end of tuning I was able to manage 21lbs at 60%duty cycle on the controller at 78hz. I assume we could have probably made almost 30lbs at 90% or so. I was so confused but we managed 342whp and 275wtq out of a d16. Shit ran hard!!!!
Excellent video, this helped me to understand exactly what the mac valve is doing. I'm going to get this 3 Port acting like a 4 port setup a shot. I want all the boost, lol
You do a very very good job explaining things. Im wondering now, you can for sure under gate a system and its common. But could you "over" gate one? Changing from what ever pressure on a single to half that on a dual I wonder if it gets so low that you lose some control.
Very helpful video, may I ask how do you wire up the solenoid to the throttle? Thanks hope you can be able to have time to give me an idea on how you wired up
At 6:08 is that air coming up from the Turbine side of the Turbo OR from the Compressor side ? Thanks. Also, is the manifold the intake manifold ? Thanks also.
May be a dumb question, but what are the pros/cons of running a 3 port like 4 port vs a 4 port sensor? Thanks for this great explanation, it cleared things up for me!!
4 port is more expensive, but you'd have little better control and designated vent. In my case I already had a 3 port, and didn't feel like buying another 4 port. So would be an option for someone already running a 3 port but maxed out. If I didn't already have a valve, and was buying new I'd just buy a 4 port. Last 2 builds I ran 4 ports.
14:07 So If using 10lb spring STD 3 port way it would apply 10lb to bottom/top WG at ~88% duty for 20lbs boost (10lb spring +10lb top WG) 3like 4 port diverts from bottom WG and more to top so 10lb at 38% duty or (x2 = 20lb at 77% duty) 30lbs boost (10lb spring +20lb top WG) And using simple math 10lbs : 38% duty = 1lb : 3.8% duty possibly 26lb at 99% duty 36lbs boost (10lb spring +26lb top WG)
In the 3 port like 4 port configuration, you showed that you must vent the top of the wastegate or it will lock pressure. What about the bottom of the wastegate? Don't we have to vent that as well? I saw in the video you didn't have that vented, but it seemed to work, so I was curious how that would work.
This... I have the same question. In the case of the wastegate used in the video you mentioned there was a small leak through the diaphragm so that would provide some venting depending on the top pressure. So as lemin above said, it seems in a properly functioning wastegate that you need a vent (like a tee) on the bottom as well. This is what a 'regular' 4-port would do of course... whichever diaphragm side is getting boost, the other side is vented to atmosphere (VTA).
So if i check normally open and run the 3 port like 4 port i need to do this? There are two types of solenoid - normally open and normally closed. A normally open solenoid (like a GM solenoid) will give maximum boost at 0% duty. Note that in this case FlashProManager inverts the duty cycle so that in FlashProManager 0% duty cycle is minimum boost, and 100% duty cycle is maximum boost. It is important to set a boost limit as a solenoid or wiring failure will result in maximum boost. A normally closed solenoid will give maximum boost at 100% duty.
Hi, great job with your explanation. I was wondering, when you have a T in the line to top of gate, when running like 4 port, wouldn't majority of the air escape out the T being the path of less resistance...?
Some will, but it doesn't completely. Same with puting a T-in the bottom. It will increase boost pressure slightly, but will still apply plenty of pressure to open the gate. Example, if it makes 8psi on gate, then you T the line it might make 10psi.
I have a holley high flow boost control valve 557-201 how can I install it to Terminator v3 with no c02 just using my turbo compresser side? Or how can I do it with a 4 port mac valve you explain things where I understand
Great video, thanks a lot... I need a litle help if posible.. I have a volvo 850 r, I´m trying to understand how this specific valve works (BCS Pierburg 1271630), it´s a 3 ports one.... When valve is OFF. -I give some presure on port 1, I get free air on port 2, but no air on port 3 (Atmosphere). -Then I give some presure on port 2, I get free air on port 1, but no air on port 3. When valve is ON. -I give some presure on port 1, I get free air on port 2 and 3. -Then I give some presure on port 2, I get free air on port 1 and 3. Is it Posible, ?? Could it be a diferent ECM configuration? Any help will be so apreciated...
So the vent in port one doesn’t affect the pressure seen on the dome very much? Must not if you can make more boost this way than just regulating the dome
@@or-ian6973 My understanding, tell me if I'm wrong: Solenoid off - manifold pressure feeds port 2, which is open to port 3, so bottom of the gate gets pressurized to give you "low boost" or "on-gate" boost. Any pressure at the top of the gate flows to port 1 which is dead-headed, so it escapes through the Tee leak instead. Solenoid on - Manifold pressure feeds port 2, which is open to port 1 so top of the gate & Tee leak, but the turbo flows enough it still gets pressurized to give you triple the "on-gate" boost. Any pressure at the bottom of the gate flows back to port 3, which is dead-headed, so it's trapped unless you install a Tee or count on a leak in your gate? It seems like it would slow your control of the gate if you're doing closed loop boost control compared to a 4-port, but it's probably fine for straight duty cycle. Haven't finished my car, so I have zero real experience.
I when the solenoid goes off I'm goes back to open circuit which sees engine vacuum, so doesn't need to vent the same way as the normally closed circuit which would trap pressure.
Great video! I wanna ask , Is this sound normal when the 3port valve is lorking. I'm running 3port valve with 2 boost lines, at the bottom and at the top. And when i turn the duty up , the wastegate starts to sound strange . But the boost is perfect. I just want to know is the sound normal
At 8 minutes.... Wait what? If you have 10psi below the diaphragm and 10 psi above the diaphragm you have equal pressure, not 20psi extra. The spring will work as normal.
Adding 10psi to the top partially closes the valve, "wasting" less exhaust energy and increasing boost pressure. If you have 10psi at the bottom, then apply that pressure equally to top and bottom, manifold pressure will increase until pressure equalizes. Then you'd have 20psi in the manifold, 20psi on top and 20psi on the bottom of the gate.
@@BlaserBuildsso if u have 20 top 20 bottom and spring is more then 1psi gate will be closed. I don't get it too. If u have equal pressure top bottom its the same as nothing connected to the gate = always closed
If I understand what you mean, a MBC in parallel with the EBC can do this. I had this setup before... No matter what the EBC does, the boost will never exceed the MBC set point.
This doesn’t work like a 4 port though. Just the valve bleeding off pressure to the bottom of the gate while venting the top, achieves equal zero pressure to top and bottom at 100% duty cycle. Applying pressure to the top of the gate without venting the bottom achieves equal boost pressure to the top and bottom at 100% duty cycle. Both methods do exactly the same thing by achieving equal pressure to top and bottom of the gate at 100%. A 4 port applies full pressure to the top while it vents the bottom at 100% duty cycle, holding double the boost pressure on the same spring as using either method you showed with a 3 port.
If both 3 port methods do the exact same thing, how do you explain the duty cycle required to close the valve being cut in half? Go do it in real life and see what happens.
@@BlaserBuilds both methods will need different duty cycles for midway settings, due to one method adding pressure while the other is bleeding off pressure but will both be exactly equal pressure to the top and bottom of the wastegate at 100% duty. I’ve been in the automotive performance industry specialising in turbocharging for 20+ years. I’ve first hand used and seen every boost control method you could imagine many times over.
Might be the best boost control explainer on youtube
Best mac valve explanation and demonstrations I've ever seen. I really needed this. Thank you!
Such a great video. Somehow in 14 minutes I know more than I could find from the 4 videos, and 1/2 day of reading articles and forums. Too many people giving advice on something they really dont have a great understanding of. Great explanations of everything definitely earned a subscription.
Glad it was helpful!
Really good and clear video, I loved the clear demo with the throttle hooked up to show the DC. Very cool and easy to understand.
oh yes the visual is really nice
Legend has it......this makes the Boost Lords happy
Very informative!! Probably one of the best explanations on the tube
Wow that makes a lot of sense, thanks! It would be awesome to see you thoroughly explain the rest of these setups on the Holley side. Please lol
Hey great explanation and demonstration of how boost controller work. I help some kids with their car and new people to racing and it's hard for them to wrap their heads around this. Your video will help!
Rad bro this actually explained to were I could better understand how all works as I been boosted a lil over a year and been use a 3 port for half that and now I want to regulate boost better/different and this just helped out tremendously brotha ty ... peace n love fam keep it rad stay safe and build on... l8z
Between this video and matts boost control class, you'll learn all you need to know.
Fantastic video. Best source of information I've been searching for. Thanks!
So it was weird when I routed my buddies controller. With just compressor reference to bottom of the gate, we made 6psi. So 6 psi was gate pressure. JUST HOOKING UP THE SOLENOID IN TRADITIONAL 3 PORT MANNER gave us double the gate with the controller at 0% or off. I was so confused. By the end of tuning I was able to manage 21lbs at 60%duty cycle on the controller at 78hz. I assume we could have probably made almost 30lbs at 90% or so. I was so confused but we managed 342whp and 275wtq out of a d16. Shit ran hard!!!!
wow this is very educational thanks. i like how you show it working
Glad you liked it!
Raw Knowledge with the actual visual reference thank you!!
REALLY clears some things up, thank you!
Excellent video, this helped me to understand exactly what the mac valve is doing. I'm going to get this 3 Port acting like a 4 port setup a shot. I want all the boost, lol
dope video brother, amazing explaination, my brain can't handle the air actuator mac valve sound, but bro amazing video.
Been trying to find a video like this for months. Going to do my first turbo build.
Sweet!
You do a very very good job explaining things. Im wondering now, you can for sure under gate a system and its common. But could you "over" gate one? Changing from what ever pressure on a single to half that on a dual I wonder if it gets so low that you lose some control.
Thank you for the explanation Ryan! Really helps.
Very helpful video, may I ask how do you wire up the solenoid to the throttle? Thanks hope you can be able to have time to give me an idea on how you wired up
I appreciate everything you do man! Tremendous help!
awesome man!!! great video really helped to understand several setups of 3 port and external wastegate setups. thanks :)
Great vid can you do one on setting up boost control on the Holley efi?
I can go over what I do. Nothing fancy, I'll probabaly just do an open loop PWM table for now.
Good afternoon, why the spring was 8 pounds, and became 10 when connected to the southern camera,
Love it. Maybe install an old carburetor one way vacuum valve on that T fitting?
Awesome way to explain this....strong work!
Thanks for this. I am planning my 1st turbo build and I am trying to choose how to control boost.
Glad I could help
@@BlaserBuildscan you assist with closed loop settings term x
Great information, thanks Forest.
At 6:08 is that air coming up from the Turbine side of the Turbo OR from the Compressor side ? Thanks. Also, is the manifold the intake manifold ? Thanks also.
May be a dumb question, but what are the pros/cons of running a 3 port like 4 port vs a 4 port sensor? Thanks for this great explanation, it cleared things up for me!!
4 port is more expensive, but you'd have little better control and designated vent. In my case I already had a 3 port, and didn't feel like buying another 4 port. So would be an option for someone already running a 3 port but maxed out. If I didn't already have a valve, and was buying new I'd just buy a 4 port. Last 2 builds I ran 4 ports.
@@BlaserBuilds I was surprised how it worked out when you were working up to 4 digit whp on the dyno...
On the “3 port like 4 port” how big is the vent orifice?
14:07
So If using 10lb spring
STD 3 port way it would apply 10lb to bottom/top WG at ~88% duty for 20lbs boost (10lb spring +10lb top WG)
3like 4 port diverts from bottom WG and more to top so
10lb at 38% duty or
(x2 = 20lb at 77% duty)
30lbs boost (10lb spring +20lb top WG)
And using simple math
10lbs : 38% duty = 1lb : 3.8% duty possibly
26lb at 99% duty
36lbs boost (10lb spring +26lb top WG)
But 36 is unrealistic because with the valve being 99% open to top WG and 1% open to bottom WG correct ?
Excellent video. Wow very in depth
In the 3 port like 4 port configuration, you showed that you must vent the top of the wastegate or it will lock pressure. What about the bottom of the wastegate? Don't we have to vent that as well? I saw in the video you didn't have that vented, but it seemed to work, so I was curious how that would work.
This... I have the same question. In the case of the wastegate used in the video you mentioned there was a small leak through the diaphragm so that would provide some venting depending on the top pressure.
So as lemin above said, it seems in a properly functioning wastegate that you need a vent (like a tee) on the bottom as well. This is what a 'regular' 4-port would do of course... whichever diaphragm side is getting boost, the other side is vented to atmosphere (VTA).
So if i check normally open and run the 3 port like 4 port i need to do this?
There are two types of solenoid - normally open and normally closed. A normally open solenoid (like a GM solenoid) will give maximum boost at 0% duty. Note that in this case FlashProManager inverts the duty cycle so that in FlashProManager 0% duty cycle is minimum boost, and 100% duty cycle is maximum boost. It is important to set a boost limit as a solenoid or wiring failure will result in maximum boost. A normally closed solenoid will give maximum boost at 100% duty.
That was an awesome explanation! Thanks!
You're welcome!
What a great video.
Great video man. Appreciated
Hi, great job with your explanation.
I was wondering, when you have a T in the line to top of gate, when running like 4 port, wouldn't majority of the air escape out the T being the path of less resistance...?
Some will, but it doesn't completely. Same with puting a T-in the bottom. It will increase boost pressure slightly, but will still apply plenty of pressure to open the gate. Example, if it makes 8psi on gate, then you T the line it might make 10psi.
Ryan can you assist with boost control settings, terminator x..
Checked several videos but some settings are missing
I have a holley high flow boost control valve 557-201 how can I install it to Terminator v3 with no c02 just using my turbo compresser side? Or how can I do it with a 4 port mac valve you explain things where I understand
I want to connect to 2 cameras without 3 solinides, so that the boost would be 1.6, which spring to put is already confused
Isn't port one supposed to be the atmosphere because of the mesh inside, if i connect with a internal wategate
Awesome video, that helped me understand it better.
Excellent video , thanks man 👊🏻
Great video, thanks a lot...
I need a litle help if posible.. I have a volvo 850 r, I´m trying to understand how this specific valve works (BCS Pierburg 1271630), it´s a 3 ports one....
When valve is OFF.
-I give some presure on port 1, I get free air on port 2, but no air on port 3 (Atmosphere).
-Then I give some presure on port 2, I get free air on port 1, but no air on port 3.
When valve is ON.
-I give some presure on port 1, I get free air on port 2 and 3.
-Then I give some presure on port 2, I get free air on port 1 and 3.
Is it Posible, ?? Could it be a diferent ECM configuration?
Any help will be so apreciated...
Thank you for this.
Thank you so much,good explanation
So the vent in port one doesn’t affect the pressure seen on the dome very much? Must not if you can make more boost this way than just regulating the dome
Doesn't really effect it much correct.
In 3-port like 4-port, how do you vent air out of the bottom of the gate (assuming diaphragm isn't leaking)? Another Tee leak in that line?
It’s always open. Port one to vent which goes to the bottom port is always open. Port 2 is closed until duty cycle is triggered
@@or-ian6973 My understanding, tell me if I'm wrong:
Solenoid off - manifold pressure feeds port 2, which is open to port 3, so bottom of the gate gets pressurized to give you "low boost" or "on-gate" boost. Any pressure at the top of the gate flows to port 1 which is dead-headed, so it escapes through the Tee leak instead.
Solenoid on - Manifold pressure feeds port 2, which is open to port 1 so top of the gate & Tee leak, but the turbo flows enough it still gets pressurized to give you triple the "on-gate" boost. Any pressure at the bottom of the gate flows back to port 3, which is dead-headed, so it's trapped unless you install a Tee or count on a leak in your gate?
It seems like it would slow your control of the gate if you're doing closed loop boost control compared to a 4-port, but it's probably fine for straight duty cycle. Haven't finished my car, so I have zero real experience.
I when the solenoid goes off I'm goes back to open circuit which sees engine vacuum, so doesn't need to vent the same way as the normally closed circuit which would trap pressure.
@@BlaserBuilds Have you done this with closed loop boost control? In my head, something seems wrong, but this would be cheaper.
@@BigRedRocketScience Not closed loop, but this is how I have it set up on truck now.
0% makes 13
20% makes 16
30% makes 19
so with this setup a 14 spring you should be able to boost up to 28 psi ?
good explanation, nice video, thanks
Thanks for my school lesson!
Love the ending 😂
On your twin turbo setups do you run a separate boost controller for each turbo/wastegate?
No, 1 for both.
Excellent explanation there.
Will this work on an internal wastegate set up as well?
It should
Can you connect port 1 to the top wastegate port? Or does it need to be connected to port 2?
this was stuuuuupidly helpfull, good job
Thank you!
No prob!
very helpful thank you
Great video! I wanna ask , Is this sound normal when the 3port valve is lorking.
I'm running 3port valve with 2 boost lines, at the bottom and at the top.
And when i turn the duty up , the wastegate starts to sound strange . But the boost is perfect. I just want to know is the sound normal
sound would change with frequency.
What is used to send the duty cycle percentage?
Ground output from holley ecu on this set up.
Great video!!
At 8 minutes....
Wait what? If you have 10psi below the diaphragm and 10 psi above the diaphragm you have equal pressure, not 20psi extra. The spring will work as normal.
Adding 10psi to the top partially closes the valve, "wasting" less exhaust energy and increasing boost pressure. If you have 10psi at the bottom, then apply that pressure equally to top and bottom, manifold pressure will increase until pressure equalizes. Then you'd have 20psi in the manifold, 20psi on top and 20psi on the bottom of the gate.
@@BlaserBuildsso if u have 20 top 20 bottom and spring is more then 1psi gate will be closed. I don't get it too. If u have equal pressure top bottom its the same as nothing connected to the gate = always closed
@@4TKRACE Are you factoring in the 20psi of exhaust backpressure also pushing up on the valve?
@@BlaserBuilds so u saying, that if u do not hook-up gate at all, it will open at 10psi with 10psi spring, cuz backpressure?
@@4TKRACE No
Are you running the 4 port mac with a holley terminator x?
I'm running a 3 port, but can run 4 port.
I have never seen a video on "how to" using an external boost controller in a car with OEM electronic boost controller, I mean as an fail safe system.
If I understand what you mean, a MBC in parallel with the EBC can do this. I had this setup before... No matter what the EBC does, the boost will never exceed the MBC set point.
How much e85 did you put in the dome?
Seven of them.
What controller are you using to control your Mac valve?
Holley ecu..
Yeah, the firts time to intall the MAC valve, i belive knock spark... 😅 sound are same... 😂
👍
This doesn’t work like a 4 port though.
Just the valve bleeding off pressure to the bottom of the gate while venting the top, achieves equal zero pressure to top and bottom at 100% duty cycle.
Applying pressure to the top of the gate without venting the bottom achieves equal boost pressure to the top and bottom at 100% duty cycle.
Both methods do exactly the same thing by achieving equal pressure to top and bottom of the gate at 100%.
A 4 port applies full pressure to the top while it vents the bottom at 100% duty cycle, holding double the boost pressure on the same spring as using either method you showed with a 3 port.
If both 3 port methods do the exact same thing, how do you explain the duty cycle required to close the valve being cut in half?
Go do it in real life and see what happens.
@@BlaserBuilds both methods will need different duty cycles for midway settings, due to one method adding pressure while the other is bleeding off pressure but will both be exactly equal pressure to the top and bottom of the wastegate at 100% duty. I’ve been in the automotive performance industry specialising in turbocharging for 20+ years. I’ve first hand used and seen every boost control method you could imagine many times over.
That was well fu&$ng explined
Anyone else getting no sound?
Is it working for you now?
@@BlaserBuilds yes sir