Learn an IMPORTANT Lesson about No Limit Hold’em
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2024
- Bart teaches an important lesson about No Limit Hold'em and bet sizing which comes out in today's hand review.
0:00 -- Hand Begins
7:29 -- Important Lesson re NL Hold'em
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The important lesson about NL Hold'em bet sizing is at 7:30. What do we think of the Hero folding here at the end?
Well your face says it all.
Total nit, doesn't understand pot odds. Laying 4 to 1 with a set and folds. UGH! Way too tight my friend. We don't fold sets - Doug.
Absurd!
What isn't factored in, is what the villain is potentially thinking. From his perspective, it looks like aces or kings. He can represent all the two pairs and more than likely get aces to fold. He's not always necessarily representing the straight with his 8's. The hero played the hand like an over pair and the villain figured he could represent two pair, set, straight.
I think hero can fold some portion of their range like pairs, some weak two pairs although there are not many weak two pairs in hero's range. However a set has the odds to call.
Alright well that's wild. Never thought I'd be listening to this and be the villain in a hand. Heros check raise on flop had me convinced of an overpair and on the river I knew he was good enough to fold a large overpair. When he pulled me to the side and told me it was a set I almost didn't believe it. True story though turned eights into a bluff with blockers and got stupid lucky to get a fold. If caller reads this message me
wow
Wow
wOw
Man, I call all day, night and month long.
I actually liked your play a lot with 88...hero should have known that most of what he is representing is overpairs. 55 is pretty much the top of his range there, cant fold that
Barts reactions crack me up. He stays very professional though but I can see the pain in his eyes while listening to some of these calls and there thoughts behind there reasonings and actions.
Seems like hero leveled himself. Hero said he made an unusual flop play to disguise his hand, then bet smaller than usual on turn and river to target smaller holdings (which villain saw as weakness) and then gave villain full credit for the nuts when he jammed. It's sick sometimes, but if you're gonna give your opponent enough rope, you can't let go when they put it around their neck.
Perfectly said
Many times bet the min with the best hand as 90 percent its a show of weakness not much hit then they rase go all in but you can steal many pots as many out there will bet weak when they don't have much
He didn’t level himself, he took Bart’s advice and made a profitable long run fold that we are being too harsh on him for. What are the two things Bart says most on this channel? (1) river raises are extremely underbluffed, (2) people don’t bluff with pairs. If villain is bluffing it’s with a pair, and he’s giving hero extremely good odds. From a random 1/2 reg or rec, this just looks so nutted. Unless we really think that 22 would value own here, this is an inspired fold in the long run, it’s someone who’s taken CLP lessons to heart and has good discipline.
@@iambadatpickingusernames6669 how is it a profitable long run fold with the odds he's getting?
@@Simon-nv5zj because people don’t bluff the river at high enough frequency
As Doug Polk says "Don't fold sets!"
I agree with the caller that it's an underbluffed spot but we are getting such good odds I just can't fold here
I agree, but at these stakes villain is generally overvaluing slow played OP and AT smh
Well, there are certain spots where you can indeed fold sets (4 to a flush, straight, etc. where you can put your opponents range on having it). I think flat out *never* folding is negative ev.
I am such a station in these spots! If this happened to me I would think that I am beat, but I just dont fold big hands anymore
@@Ihave10billionsubs you can pretty much never fold a set and its winning. But i agree there are definetly spots where you should. Rare tho
@@lukavukosavljevic2529 if the board is 10h 9h 8h 7h 2s and you have pocket 7s
That’s a ridiculous and extreme example, but that’s a spot where your hand is only a bluff catcher
I will STILL CALL THERE if I’m getting tremendous odds to do so, but if I’m only getting a typical 3:1 or 4:1 to call I’m pretty much always going to fold in that spot
But if you’re giving me like 10:1 odds, and it was heads up to the flop kind of a thing so only one player to have had to ‘beat’ post flop, I probably just call there and say whatever, take my money I’m not folding at that great of a price, and I can pretty much guarantee you, you’ll OCCASIONALLY be good, you’re opponent will sometimes have a bluff or maybe a random two pair hand they’re kind of turning into a bluff kind of a thing
I’m stacking off on that river against any player. It’s 4:1. Even if I’m wrong my hand has so much showdown value. I won’t even include nits in this hand, because I would already recognize they’ve overplayed their overpairs and I’m felting them.
I’ve folded set over set one time and it was only because there was 4 hearts on the board and I didn’t have a heart in my hand. Opponent bet into me with the lower set, but they had the heart in their hand. This player played really tight, which is the only reason I didn’t call.
This is why I always get into arguments with people on these hand analysis stuff where they always seem to advocate making hero folds, and I counter with the simplistic (but true!!!!) assessment that yes people will sometimes just say ‘fuck it’ and bluff away
So if you’re getting a great price to call, and you have a decently strong hand, you should probably be calling in most of those spots
And you will lose sometimes that’s poker and that’s life
Finally someone with my thoughts process..
@@mikebayong8057 Right and there’s a difference between calling down a strong hand at a great price/odds, versus being a calling station and just calling down anything
I agree
Yep, in most situations you have to add 15% or so to ANY range as "dumb-ass bluffs" and THEN add your actual equity on top of that.
@@RangeWilson Yes
When people say ‘players NEVER bluff there’
Their idea of never just doesn’t match reality
A ‘never’ bluff spot is still probably bluffed at over ten percent frequency
I hear the term “tough lay down” and “hero call” but this is an example of a “tough call”. When you’re getting 4 to 1 and only getting beat by monsters, you kinda have to call. And as DNegs says if you get beat “such is life”
I'm surprised we didn't get the "I've seen too much shit go down at this level to fold" line!
I was thinking of that line from bart last night and still folded on the turn in a tourney, see my comment below
Can't ever fold at that price. He's near the top of his range. You have to defend with something, right??
He could have 87s or 66. Probably even TT if he check-raises some overpairs.
Tell him it's a fold and he's brilliant. We need more players like him walking to the ATM thinking they're going to win it back.
Yeah, I’m never folding 55 or 66 here. If they straight up, take the L and move on. Too many bluffs in these spots to fold anything other than 22.
Bit harsh, the guys reasoning was pretty solid, he just didn't give villain credit for making a check-raise river bluff like that, it was a very bold move
Very tight fold with his hand and pot odds, but I've seen WAYYYYY WORSE
Hilarious!
@@mikeyteee95 The problem is that 55 even beats value bets, since hero's line could be an overpair with that small sizing. It's just a trivial call getting 4-1 at that point.
Holy f*** sticks Batman no way in hell am I folding those fives especially for that price
What about river size? Seems bad. Question is if middling pair will call. Caller says at 10:25 that he doesn’t think so, and is trying to get value from 2 pair or better - so then it’s an obvious jam. Agreed on rest of analysis. Can’t fold river and turn sizing could be bigger. Forgot to mention on turn you can charge the occasional A2dd draw. And maybe A3/A4dd.
55 is top of his range here. Ifbhe folds that then what is he calling with on the river with this board
I think you need to check-call the turn and river. 87s & 99 are a really big part of villains range, and 88/77 are such natural bluffs for them. You can get them to value own with 22/65s by checking whereas going barrel-barrel could induce some hero folds.
I find river jams at this level are usually goods so I can see why caller folded
I think the fold is terrible…
Interesting line from the villan. Hero just was too much of a "thinking" player. Maybe a fold 2-5 or higher imo depending on stacks etc but not at 1-2. Gotta snap call and then shout out when you win as the rules at 1-2 go 😂
Honestly I think the villain played it great. Props to them.
It's a super easy call at 2-5 or higher. It's harder at 1/2, because players don't often bluff rivers. Bluff jamming the river is so rare in 1/2. Villain did an excellent job of recognizing how tight he'd get called down if he jammed in this spot, because it looks insanely strong. 55 is probably a crying call here because the 22 value own exists, but folding 22 here would be extremely reasonable, because it's a way underbluffed spot.
Hang on. When villain snaps on the turn, why do we think he has a straight? Bart politely said he didn’t necessarily agree with that, but I’ll say it bluntly: that snap on the turn means he doesn’t have a straight. He has to think about raising there if he’s a thinking player. When he doesn’t even think about it, he doesn’t have a straight. He has either a marginal made hand or a draw or both (eg 88, 77, 98, 97).
Here is a rare hand where I like the villans play much more. I don't know how he folds a set there. Infact on the turn his sentiment was completely different. Then a blank comes and he looks for a reason to fold. Lol. Good job playing the str8 blockers mr . Villan. Though a raise on the turn may have been a bit better of a line. ?
Once he snap calls the turn, idk if he has a straight. Not only are snap calls like this indicative of a draw like Bart said but if he had a straight, he would have thought about what to do before smooth calling.
100% agree.... villain would have def thought it out with the straight there.
@@kennyvoller5419 yeah, there’s a lot of bad river cards if you’ve got 87. Any diamond, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3 or 2 could either kill your action or put you behind.
I would call because hero can beat some of the villain’s value range. Caller is representing an OP, so opponent could be raising bottom set or 2pr for value. Given that and the price, must call.
There is no way the caller folded only like 200$ more with all the money in the middle with a set and literally only hand that beats u is 78. These calls r getting more insane by the day.
Wtf we folding for
This hand is a lot more interesting if the river is a 7 or 8.
I think check calling would be the play in that case
Any thoughts?
And that's why check-call was the optimal line. Villain's range is very polarized between strong hands - where the money's going in anyway - and weak hands comprising missed draws and 3rd pair or worse. It's betting that makes little sense not checking.
I'm never folding that hand in that spot.
"checking to keep bluffs his range" it's 1/2/3 when do players bluff?
How do u possibly fold there? That's terrible! Hero only has 200 to win a thousand you have to call.
Hey Bart, love listening to your hand analysis videos. I'll probably be a Crush subscriber soon. One suggestion. The title of your posts usually reference some kind of learning, however, that learning is NOT always obvious to me. In this post, there is a reference to "Important Lesson" at 7:29. So, is the important lesson that a snap call does not always represent that they have the nuts? Thanks for your response.
The lesson is specified in the chapters of the video as well as referenced in the pinned comment
When I play that hand back from the villains perspective and range I am never folding those fives for 4:1. he played it like an over pair and the only other pairs I’m concerned about are 1010 99 66. Never folding for 4:1 there.
Never folding!
If he has 78 or 99 take my money
UNBELIEVABLE FOLD
Any chance villain is shoving 22 for value given the small turn and river sizing by hero? I think it is very likely if hero is check raising hands like AA/KK on the flop. (which I wouldn't do, given how less protection AA/KK need and how deep we are. One pair is usually just not good enough to stack off 200BB deep. A more vulnerable overpair like TT,JJ may consider checking raising but not AA/KK for me. Villain has all the sets lol.) I am not folding when I can beat a portion of villain's value range and also given this pot odds.
This is simply a lesson in pot odds. Yes it's an underbluffed spot, but my god you HAVE to call here
I'm a total nit, but no way i'm folding a set here in a 1/3 game getting 4:1 lol. Easily could just be an overplayed KK/AA, bottom set, or 2 pair from a horrible player trying to be "trappy".
Doug Polk is having a fit somewhere right now. There's thinking players and there's over-thinking players. I can get behind MAYBE a crying call, but how can you fold? I played a similar hand recently, quite similar in fact but I had the 22 with 25738 and my op jammed the river with 78. I shook my head but obviously called...
It seems like caller was at 1st targeting "middling pairs" from a thinking player then when said player made a thinking play with said middling pair he got scared and bailed...
Idk, if the villain had 78 he would probably check to the hero on the flop. He bet nearly pot which kind of seemed like he is protecting his hand. If the villain had 99s he would have check raised after the hero bet 90. The 1/3 bet from the hero on the river seemed so weak and it is so obvious the villain wanted to push him off. How do you fold this wtf?
honey, and then he said 55's are a snap fold but if he has 66's or 99's he's NEVER folding *Leonardo LAUGHING*
What worse calls on the river that wouldn’t bet? T9 seems unlikely and you block 65. I like check call the river because the money is getting in against straights and sets that bet you and draws can bluff off for full pot.
Cards aside I can’t believe he folded. 4:1 pot odds dictate. That being said, good job to the villian knocking the hero off his set.
You have to find strong reasons to fold sets here. On this flop you had the 2nd nuts. ALL over pairs and 2 pairs will call a check raise. More aggression on the turn and river would have made your decisions easier and applied pressure to your opponent. Too passive by the hero.
Never, never folding.
Given odds and only 4 hands beat me. I'll just take my chances. I would have shoved turn though
The villain has a lot of bluffs in this spot too. Getting 4-1. Call it off.
Two pair fist-pump-jams that river looking for a call at these stakes. I have no idea how this didn't go to showdown.
There are more hands you can beat giving up so easy because you are running out of bankroll is.... I guess you'd be folding sets a lot.
Omg - anyone who understands live poker, knows this is a snap call. Opponent could easily be overvaluing 2 pair or worse. What hurts more is the pot odds he was getting. At these stack depths, and given this action, I would beat him into the pot. This is not even close.
"Thank you for the call..." But, I gotta let you go. What a donkey. XD
Why would he bet $120 on the river and not call $218 more lol what a fish.
You can't play a set like an overpair and then fold getting 4:1.
I am not no pro....but the more I play poker the more I understand this..poker most of the time is a game of the moment..you win some
.you lose some...
Either you have the nut to play or you don't..at this points of my game unless I know the player for sure..I don't fold set....and if I flop it..I will let you know I flop it...I will bet...If you get lucky you get lucky...
We play poker to make money or lose some ..we don't play to be conservative..because if he would have went big on the flop first like $80 120 on that flop maybe that packet 8s wouldn't have thought about calling..in another hand that man could have had 8 7 souded...as me as a poker player I don't fall them them type of hand no more..going to my point we over analysis hands way too much is either your opponents got it or it doesn't...period
You can't block the river with a hand this strong and then get blown off your hand that easily getting almost 5 to 1 on a call. -EV for sure
When I bet 55 on this river at these stakes, I'm HOPING to be jammed on.
Chat pro; what do you think? tournament; Blinds 200/400 I raise utg with red kings; button calls big blind calls. flop 67s Qh bb bets into me 1675 I call; button folds. Turn is Jh; bb jams into me for my stack of 8k; he was a player who was passively playing his draws all night; would call call call to river then fold to a bet; I took it as he donkey flopped two pair and was protecting against draws or flopped a single pair and was trying to get me off two overs; whatchu think
I reraise flop, as played i pray then call
@@michaelyabut5969 completely agree re-raising flop and learned my lesson. if I played passively, as I did, to keep his bluffs in, I should lean more towards calling on the turn
Never a fold. He could have anything from a bleff, most pairs, most two pairs, ... If he has it he has it. You HAVE to pay him off here if he has it.
@@aheroictaxidriver3180 you mean bleff?
All I do is bleff
@@williamr4053 I think he really has no idea what "bleff" is. LIFE is bleff.
why would you ever fold any set with that rainbow board?!?! set=shuve it in my game
I have never seen a guy snap call a half pot turn bet with money behind on a non rainbow board when they have a straight, I've seen plenty of insta jams in those kinds of situations, this is never a straight unless he's really into feigning live tells lol
just terrible folding a set getting 4-1 with only 2 straights in 43 and 87 being there. just so bad
POT ODDS POT ODDS POT ODDS.
and who says poker is dead 😂
He describes the villian as a “thinking player”, whatever the fuck that means. My thing is, if hes a thinking player why would him snap calling turn be a sign of strength? Poker is all about deception. If he turned a set he wouldnt snap call turn in my opinion. It would take him some time or he might even raise. I would. Fast playing hands is the only way to go.
Yeah if I turned 99 or 87 I’d definitely at least consider raising. Hero check raised the flop so from V’s point of view you’d expect him to have a good holding that would call a turn raise.
And there’s a lot of bad river cards. Any diamond, 4, 3, 7 or 8 could either put you behind or kill your action.
So yeah, no thinking player would just snap call the turn with a big hand, even if it’s the nuts.
@@JohnSmith-nx7zj correct
I guess I'm a fish because I'm never folding.
no way some 1-3 chud turned pocket 8's into a bluff raising a river lol
His opponent was just overplaying his hand.
I guess thats why in usa there is a job where you play poker in casino for living 🤣🤣
Caller playing at higher stakes than he can afford.
That wasca bad fold
did he really fold the river???? 😂😂😂😂
Terrible fold..
Next!
4 to 1 (110bb!) is not that great odds to pay just to see the hand that beats you. I’d rather made a deal: fold and pay him 10bb to see his hand. Obviously, the guy was not bluffing. So: you gonna risk 110bb against the hand that can easily beat you 5 times? I’m not.
.
One thing I’d played different is the river bet. I cannot see a weaker hand calling my river bet. Unless V had 65s. (The fact that he jammed, proves no 2 pairs).
.
The way he played the whole hand, tells me, V had set of 9s or Ts.
Villain could turn 78 over and Id still call River
The BET of 120 1/3rd pot on the river is terrible.. bet 200 and you have 138 behind to call if he tries to Bluff and he probably wouldn't have made the play if you had bet more.. as played it's still an easy almost snap call..if your folding trips here your way to exploitive.. aggressive players will just run you over terrible terrible fold the in my 2 5 game where we play 200 BB's deep if the Pot had 400 in it and I had 500 behind and I bet 200 and he shoves for my last300 I'm insta calling even getting 3 to 1 I would call
Tough one bc seems to me like the caller just brushed off any advice and isn’t very open to the idea that his thought process can improve any more than it’s current level
He def had 78
There is a reason this guy plays 1-3 but thinks he’s a g
Ridiculous fold.
Bart I love your vids but the thumbnail for this video really looks like you're holding a giant vibrstor
Comn’ man…why do we keep making the same mistake over and over and over?
Over analysis in low limit more often leads to leveling oneself than not. I believe the problem is that we watch too many high stakes videos and then proceed to take them to our low stakes games. Let’s not forget that Dunning Kruger has another end as well.
this isnt even close with these odss.
Insert gif “what an idiot” 🤷
Simply a bad fold.
Yikes
Total kook move
Worst fold I've seen
This dude will never be profitable playing like this.
This caller is the worst poker player lol